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View Full Version : Team most likely to spoil GSW vs. Cleveland?



Giannis94
01-03-2017, 11:42 AM
Figured this is a serious question as I would say that there is a 99% chance that of the 3 teams listed above, that 2 of them will be in the finals barring a major injury.

With that said, what team do you think can play spoiler? Would a certain acquistion by another contending team (ie: Bulls go full rebuild, trade Butler to Boston or something cazy, but realistic like that?)

KnicksorBust
01-03-2017, 12:39 PM
Clippers, Celtics, Raptors all come to mind.

Avenged
01-03-2017, 12:51 PM
Spurs versus Cavaliers is not something I'm particularly interested in.. So if the Spurs make it to the Finals, I would consider that a spoiler. The majority want to see the Warriors vs. Cavs. I mean, that has potential to be one of the best series ever.

Giannis94
01-03-2017, 12:52 PM
Spurs versus Cavaliers is not something I'm particularly interested in.. So if the Spurs make it to the Finals, I would consider that a spoiler. The majority want to see the Warriors vs. Cavs. I mean, that has potential to be one of the best series ever.

And I'm saying that right now surging teams like Houston, or teams that are 1 piece away are not in the upper tier with SA, GSW,CLE quite yet

NFLAccess
01-03-2017, 03:07 PM
What the heck...how about my Rockets.

D-Leethal
01-03-2017, 03:17 PM
Houston in the West

Celtics with a deadline move in the East.

DanG
01-03-2017, 03:19 PM
Bucks

GodsSon
01-03-2017, 03:20 PM
Raptors with Millsap have a legit chance.

ewing
01-03-2017, 03:40 PM
Celtics and Clips.

Giannis94
01-03-2017, 03:41 PM
Everyone saying Celtics is that as is, or assuming they add another piece at the deadline? I assume its the ladder.

Chronz
01-03-2017, 03:43 PM
And I'm saying that right now surging teams like Houston, or teams that are 1 piece away are not in the upper tier with SA, GSW,CLE quite yet
Not buying sas on that tier. They with the clips

Giannis94
01-03-2017, 03:53 PM
Not buying sas on that tier. They with the clips


10-4. Changes to title made.

Edit: tried to change but only changed it in this thread.

IndyRealist
01-03-2017, 03:55 PM
Not buying sas on that tier. They with the clips

Agreed. SAS record is good but this year they are one transcendent player and a whole lot of holes. Parker and Ginobili are extremely sub par defenders at this point, and there's no Duncan to fall back on. They have no transition plan for any of their aging vets, no young legs to take the burden of minutes.

FlashBolt
01-03-2017, 04:06 PM
Raptors or Detroit.
Clippers or Spurs.

No way Boston can ever get past Cleveland. They have some good players but none are truly great. Thomas is okay but I can see him getting exposed if LeBron covers him down when it matters. Horford is a terrible rebounder. Dude averaged like 4 rebounds against the Cavs last playoffs. Not sure who else the Celtics have that can really stop any weapon the Cavs have. Playoffs is totally different from what is played in the regular season.

R. Johnson#3
01-03-2017, 04:08 PM
If they ever get fully healthy then Utah. They've been dealing with injuries all year and are still playing great.

mngopher35
01-03-2017, 04:20 PM
Whatever team injures a main gs or Cleveland player...

Seriously I think sas/clippers could play spoiler and maybe Toronto/celtics in east with a move? Extremely unlikely though, injuries are the most probably way one of those two doesn't make it IMO.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-03-2017, 04:45 PM
Not buying sas on that tier. They with the clips

Yeah agreed. GS and CLE are on their own tier. Then SAS, HOU, LAC (assuming health) and TOR.

rhino17
01-03-2017, 06:44 PM
Houston and maybe Toronto if they add another substantial piece. I don't see how anyone else comes close

JasonJohnHorn
01-04-2017, 12:11 AM
Spurs or injuries.

I mean... the Warriors are on pace for another 64+ win season. That is insanely good. The Spurs are great... they got the best shot... but I'm not holding my breathe.

I want to see the Clips get there. I want to see CP3 win one, but I just don't see that team pulling it off. It's on Doc in my eyes. Lance Stephenson should still be on that team; instead they have Austin daddy's boy.


I see the Rockets playing a a style that just won't keep up with GSW. Who else is there?

The Spurs. Barring injury, that's it.

In the east.... chirp chirp chirp.

The only way that team doesn't win the east is injuries.

Bostonjorge
01-04-2017, 01:55 AM
When Boston trades all its picks to Sacramento for Cousins then Boston will be a true contender. Crowder and Bradley truly shine when they get to guard a Superstar player. Thomas has shown he can steal 1 game against anyone when he's hot. Cousins will have the paint to him self while Horford can play inside/out.

This trade needs to happen for basketball reasons.

In the west only SA comes to mind. If Blake can play the way he played in 2015 playoff against SAS then I would also say them to.

Chronz
01-04-2017, 02:16 AM
Agreed. SAS record is good but this year they are one transcendent player and a whole lot of holes. Parker and Ginobili are extremely sub par defenders at this point, and there's no Duncan to fall back on. They have no transition plan for any of their aging vets, no young legs to take the burden of minutes.

Yeah agreed. GS and CLE are on their own tier. Then SAS, HOU, LAC (assuming health) and TOR.

I actually like Houston above them based on what I've seen thus far. All those teams are pretty close but I have LAC as the clear best of that bunch come playoffs. Houston just doesn't have the same holes talent wise that SAS does.

Pop does have an ace up the his sleeve if he starts playing Dedmon more than Pau and holds a short leash on TP as the primary PG.

Clips have a massive liability at the 3 and the Doc/Austin frantic duo might rear its ugly head but their top-4 is clearly the most cohesive and talented at this point.

Houston should be at full strength come playoffs so they too will be better than their record, my only concern is how Harden and D'Antoni translate into the post season. I just know some teams will do to Harden what the Clips did to Curry before they cracked the code and what they were doing to Lillard before CP3 was sidelined. Tons more ball denial and traps/higher hedges that force others to create. The development of Draymond gave Curry that key pressure release from such attention and the Blazers were having Plumlee be that for Lillard. I dont see any bigman in Houston with that kind of awareness and Harden dominating the ball to this degree is surely not going to help them develop much of a floor game. I think Gordon becomes increasingly more valuable come playoffs and we've never seen him in the playoffs have we?

kdspurman
01-04-2017, 09:09 AM
Agreed. SAS record is good but this year they are one transcendent player and a whole lot of holes. Parker and Ginobili are extremely sub par defenders at this point, and there's no Duncan to fall back on. They have no transition plan for any of their aging vets, no young legs to take the burden of minutes.

Eh, anyone who paid attention last year saw how good LMA was in the 2nd half of the season. He's turning that corner again now. When he's as engaged as he has been on both ends, I like our chances against anyone.

Parker and Manus defense is kinda irrelevant at this point. It was sub par in 2014 too, so there's that. You've got Kawhi, Green, LMA (much better defensively than some realize) and Dedmon who is a fine shot blocker. Def not Duncan, but he does alter shots.

Also, no young legs?

Kawhi, Green, Mills, Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Dedmon, etc... saying they have no plan tells.me you don't follow them closely enough. Not to mention the low amts of minutes the older guys play

Scoots
01-04-2017, 10:03 AM
Any team can beat any team. Beating them in a 7 game series means generally that the better team wins. For a team other than GS or CLE to make the finals there is going to have to be a change in the status quo ... either a team gets better or GS or CLE get worse (injury).

But who can get there? Any team that makes the playoffs.

IndyRealist
01-04-2017, 10:07 AM
Eh, anyone who paid attention last year saw how good LMA was in the 2nd half of the season. He's turning that corner again now. When he's as engaged as he has been on both ends, I like our chances against anyone.

Parker and Manus defense is kinda irrelevant at this point. It was sub par in 2014 too, so there's that. You've got Kawhi, Green, LMA (much better defensively than some realize) and Dedmon who is a fine shot blocker. Def not Duncan, but he does alter shots.

Also, no young legs?

Kawhi, Green, Mills, Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, Murray, Dedmon, etc... saying they have no plan tells.me you don't follow them closely enough. Not to mention the low amts of minutes the older guys play

You're not at all concerned about teams iso'ing Kawhi in the corner and playing 4v4? They do it because the Spurs have so many minus defenders. Dedmon, Green, and Mills are fine, the rest are trash. And Mills isn't a PG really. He's a SG in a PG body. They have no one that can fill for Parker and Ginobili with their ballhandling duties. NO transition plan.

LaMarcus is one of the most consistently overrated players in the league. I like Dedmon and Lee far more than I like LMA and Gasol. Dedmon is the key to their postseason run imo, and barring injury he's just not going to get enough minutes to matter.

Giannis94
01-04-2017, 11:20 AM
Any team can beat any team. Beating them in a 7 game series means generally that the better team wins. For a team other than GS or CLE to make the finals there is going to have to be a change in the status quo ... either a team gets better or GS or CLE get worse (injury).

But who can get there? Any team that makes the playoffs.
Bull on your first point. They are playing with the reffs and will get any questionable call

kdspurman
01-04-2017, 12:40 PM
You're not at all concerned about teams iso'ing Kawhi in the corner and playing 4v4? They do it because the Spurs have so many minus defenders. Dedmon, Green, and Mills are fine, the rest are trash. And Mills isn't a PG really. He's a SG in a PG body. They have no one that can fill for Parker and Ginobili with their ballhandling duties. NO transition plan. [/TWEET]

LaMarcus is one of the most consistently overrated players in the league. I like Dedmon and Lee far more than I like LMA and Gasol. Dedmon is the key to their postseason run imo, and barring injury he's just not going to get enough minutes to matter.

Oh for sure, I've seen the article. But it's not something that happens a lot, and by starting Dedmon, it helps with that strategy. Mills is OK, but he's not a great defender either, he's just scrappy. LMA, whether you think is overrated or not, he is a good defender as well. Inconsistent, sure, but he has shown he can be very solid on that end, especially when it comes to switching out to smaller guys on the perimeter.

Parker & Manu remain the teams best ball handlers, which is fine. Parker looks much better after a rough first month (Pop has given him extra time off) and Manu while he is the main ball handler plays with a 2nd unit that moves the ball quite well. So he's not holding on to the ball a ton. He's also shooting 40% from 3, so they're getting him good looks. They're (Manu/TP) the same players they were in 2014, so that's why I'm not concerned about them. It's more about what Kawhi/LMA/Mills/Green, etc.. showing up the post season.

You keep saying there's no transition plan when there clearly is. It just isn't ready yet, but there IS a plan. The regular fan wouldn't know if they don't pay attention to the team, that's why I'm letting you know there is, and the personnel is there already :)

Also, what makes you think Dedmon isn't going to get minutes to matter? His biggest issue is fouling, which he's improved on. But i'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I feel very confident in Pop that given the matchup, he will play Dedmon more than Pau.

Scoots
01-04-2017, 01:59 PM
Bull on your first point. They are playing with the reffs and will get any questionable call

Meh. What I said was that generally the better team wins, and I think that is true even with the refs slanting things occasionally.

Giannis94
01-04-2017, 02:06 PM
Meh. What I said was that generally the better team wins, and I think that is true even with the refs slanting things occasionally.

The NBA won't let it happen. Can you imagine the financial impact if say the Jazz and Hawks make it to the NBA Finals?

IndyRealist
01-04-2017, 02:35 PM
Also, what makes you think Dedmon isn't going to get minutes to matter? His biggest issue is fouling, which he's improved on. But i'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I feel very confident in Pop that given the matchup, he will play Dedmon more than Pau.
Because Pau isn't playing poorly. Benching him in the playoffs when he is playing well isn't something you do to an all-star, Popovich or not.

Defenses pick up in the playoffs, and key in with specific schemes just for that particular opponent. The fact that Kawhi-iso works means everyone will exploit it come postseason. And who's going to be on the floor when it happens. Probably Parker, probably LMA, maybe Gasol. That could get ugly.

As far as the transition plan, there's no ballhandler on that roster outside of the two that might retire this summer. I'm confident their next PG is not currently on the roster.

Literally every NBA level player -can- be a good defender. But most do not put out the effort and concentration necessary to be a good defender. That's LaMarcus to a T.

kdspurman
01-04-2017, 02:58 PM
Because Pau isn't playing poorly. Benching him in the playoffs when he is playing well isn't something you do to an all-star, Popovich or not.

Defenses pick up in the playoffs, and key in with specific schemes just for that particular opponent. The fact that Kawhi-iso works means everyone will exploit it come postseason. And who's going to be on the floor when it happens. Probably Parker, probably LMA, maybe Gasol. That could get ugly.

As far as the transition plan, there's no ballhandler on that roster outside of the two that might retire this summer. I'm confident their next PG is not currently on the roster.

Literally every NBA level player -can- be a good defender. But most do not put out the effort and concentration necessary to be a good defender. That's LaMarcus to a T.

Pau isn't playing poorly offensively, but defensively by some teams he will be exposed in P&R action. Plus, he's slow to help defense/protect the paint. I assure you, while he may not be "benched", his minutes will be reduced significantly if the matchup calls for it.(Clips, Warriors, Rockets) If Pop brought Duncan off the bench for a Warriors game last season, you can bet he will have no issues reducing Pau's role.

Kawhi-iso is a "nice to have", but trust me that's not the way this team wants to play. They're 6th in APG, and they still haven't found their stride. They want to be a team who can move the ball still. Having guys like Kawhi/LMA who can beat their guys 1 on 1 only adds extra security/flexibility.

Dejounte Murray seems to be the guy they like as the next PG. Pop is speaking very highly of him. So you may be confident, but it seems Pop and Co. already have their guy. He's young, and still raw, but he has talent and athleticism/size, can handle the ball, and has shown to be a solid finisher in traffic. ( he watches lots of Parker film) He has a very bright future, believe me.

& Honestly, as long as LMA steps up when it matters, that's fine by me. He's shown he can be very good defensively.

Scoots
01-04-2017, 03:51 PM
The NBA won't let it happen. Can you imagine the financial impact if say the Jazz and Hawks make it to the NBA Finals?

Like Oakland is a huge media power base. Milwaukee has a higher population than Oakland and the Milwaukee metropolitan area isn't much smaller than Cleveland's.

If what you are saying were true every year would be LA vs NY ... but that has only happened 3 times in NBA history ... and heck the Bucks have made the finals 2 times which was twice as many as the Warriors until 2 years ago. If there is a conspiracy it's REALLY being poorly run with the Thunder making the finals along with multiple appearances from those places far outside popular culture San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston.

Vee-Rex
01-04-2017, 03:55 PM
Yeah, the Spurs domination in the 21st century kinda sticks it to guys who think the NBA is using the refs to try to force big market or flashy, fan favorite players to the finals.

FlashBolt
01-04-2017, 06:44 PM
I hate when people keep saying the NBA won't let it happen.. Why do you even watch the NBA if you're just going to use that excuse when the Bucks don't make it to the Finals... It's like watching WWE and getting upset at the wrestler for not kicking out.. you're blaming the wrong person.

Bostonjorge
01-04-2017, 06:50 PM
I hate when people keep saying the NBA won't let it happen.. Why do you even watch the NBA if you're just going to use that excuse when the Bucks don't make it to the Finals... It's like watching WWE and getting upset at the wrestler for not kicking out.. you're blaming the wrong person.
The NBA didn't let Green get his finals MVP award last year.

FlashBolt
01-04-2017, 06:52 PM
Yeah, apparently there is a disclaimer that states nutcrackers are disqualified from Finals MVP consideration.

IndyRealist
01-04-2017, 06:52 PM
Sorry, I meant dropping Kawhi in the corner and leaving him there on defense, not Kawhi iso on offense. As far as the rest, I was kind of expecting you to say "trust me."

mrblisterdundee
01-04-2017, 06:53 PM
Utah has the best defense across an entire roster, so they're best-suited to take on Golden State. Let's not forget that neither Derrick Favors nor George Hill played in the blowout Dec. 20. The Jazz came within eight points of beating the Warriors in Salt Lake City without Hill, Favors or Gordon Hayward. They need health more than anything, although Utah lacks good ball movement, even with Hill.
In the east, Toronto has a real chance to dethrone Cleveland, if they can get a guy like Paul Millsap. Without him, Cleveland can just crowd the paint and dare DeMar DeRozan to shoot, and there's nobody competent enough defensively to stop Kevin Love.

mrblisterdundee
01-04-2017, 06:55 PM
Like Oakland is a huge media power base. Milwaukee has a higher population than Oakland and the Milwaukee metropolitan area isn't much smaller than Cleveland's.

If what you are saying were true every year would be LA vs NY ... but that has only happened 3 times in NBA history ... and heck the Bucks have made the finals 2 times which was twice as many as the Warriors until 2 years ago. If there is a conspiracy it's REALLY being poorly run with the Thunder making the finals along with multiple appearances from those places far outside popular culture San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston.

I don't agree with the conspiracy theorist, but I would say that the Bay Area the Warriors are not just Oakland's team is a pretty huge market, especially with the tech boom.

FlashBolt
01-04-2017, 07:01 PM
I can't see what Raptors have to offer for Milsap other than Lowry or Derozan. Jonas is terrible defensively and limited offensively. They have a few other decent players such as Ross and Caroll but none that would benefit them. Only reason Toronto won two games was because of Bismack -- and he's gone/seems useless in Magic.

Saddletramp
01-04-2017, 07:08 PM
I don't agree with the conspiracy theorist, but I would say that the Bay Area the Warriors are not just Oakland's team is a pretty huge market, especially with the tech boom.

Yeah, he's made this sorta statement before. The Texas Rangers play in Arlington but no one says that they're Arlington's and Arlington's only team. The Warriors are Bay Area and with the tech companies, they are a huge base.

Scoots gets weird sometimes. Wonder what he'll say when they move to SF.

lol, please
01-05-2017, 12:07 AM
Figured this is a serious question as I would say that there is a 99% chance that of the 3 teams listed above, that 2 of them will be in the finals barring a major injury.

With that said, what team do you think can play spoiler? Would a certain acquistion by another contending team (ie: Bulls go full rebuild, trade Butler to Boston or something cazy, but realistic like that?)

Spurs and Raptors imo and I think it drops off from there.

I also am on record saying I genuinely believe the Raptors will be in the finals. As soon as I have the capital, I will put money on it.

BTW I don't see any "3 teams" you are talking about in your OP.

Giannis94
01-05-2017, 12:47 AM
Spurs and Raptors imo and I think it drops off from there.

I also am on record saying I genuinely believe the Raptors will be in the finals. As soon as I have the capital, I will put money on it.

BTW I don't see any "3 teams" you are talking about in your OP.

Because I was overrating SAS and never edited the original text.

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 01:00 AM
Spurs and Raptors imo and I think it drops off from there.

I also am on record saying I genuinely believe the Raptors will be in the finals. As soon as I have the capital, I will put money on it.

BTW I don't see any "3 teams" you are talking about in your OP.

Yes, and you're on record as wrong. Raptors will be lucky to even attend the ECF.

bucketss
01-05-2017, 02:04 AM
I can't see what Raptors have to offer for Milsap other than Lowry or Derozan. Jonas is terrible defensively and limited offensively. They have a few other decent players such as Ross and Caroll but none that would benefit them. Only reason Toronto won two games was because of Bismack -- and he's gone/seems useless in Magic.

milsap might leave i don't think ATL wants to go through the whole horford thing again. they were apparently prepared to trade him to toronto over the summer.

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 06:57 AM
The NBA didn't let Green get his finals MVP award last year.

I think you meant to say the NBA didn't let LeBron get his finals MVP award 2 years ago.

TRIUMPHATOR
01-05-2017, 12:12 PM
I can't see what Raptors have to offer for Milsap other than Lowry or Derozan. Jonas is terrible defensively and limited offensively. They have a few other decent players such as Ross and Caroll but none that would benefit them. Only reason Toronto won two games was because of Bismack -- and he's gone/seems useless in Magic.

DD and Lowry wouldn't be part of the deal obviously. I think you forget that the team has 2 1st round picks this year along with very young Powell, Poetl, Nogueira. And as you mentioned Ross and Caroll. Also Sullinger and Paterson to make the money work.

They have more than what's needed to make the deal. Bigger question is, do they go for Cousins instead and how much depth will they lose if they do either deal.

A focused Cousins on the Raps would definitely give the Cavs a run in a 7 game series

Scoots
01-05-2017, 12:27 PM
Yeah, he's made this sorta statement before. The Texas Rangers play in Arlington but no one says that they're Arlington's and Arlington's only team. The Warriors are Bay Area and with the tech companies, they are a huge base.

Scoots gets weird sometimes. Wonder what he'll say when they move to SF.

That SF isn't that big of a city either :) I'm just playing at the whole NBA conspiracy against "small market" teams thing. And seriously Oakland is such a bad marketing tool the professional teams there literally talk about moving every time their lease comes up.

But seriously, the whole SF Bay Areas population comes in 11th in US metropolitan areas behind NY, (big drop) LA, (big drop) Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Washington, Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Boston ... if there was a conspiracy then wouldn't Washington, Philly, and Atlanta have won more than they have been? Those areas above the Bay Area have 12 teams which puts the Bay Area and the Warriors firmly in the middle of the pack (13 of 30 teams by market size) so the conspiracy theories certainly should not apply to them.

kdspurman
01-05-2017, 03:16 PM
I respect the defending, respective conference champs. But this season, the Spurs have been right on par with them to this point. I'm quite optimistic honestly.

1st in DRTG, 5th in ORTG, 2nd in SRS, top 3 point shooting team & 3rd in defending the 3.

With the season nearly halfway done, I like this teams chances, especially with so much upside still. Ideally avoiding the Clips in the playoffs :) But I'd be shocked if Pop hasn't learned from their previous match ups and doesn't have something up his sleeve.