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Ty Fast
01-01-2017, 01:11 AM
What a stat line. Do you think he is MVP?

FlashBolt
01-01-2017, 01:13 AM
He's easily the MVP right now.

Harden
LeBron
Westbrook
Kawhi
KD

He had 8 turnovers but man, Harden is doing some incredible things with that roster. D'Antoni for COTY if it works out.

AIRMAR72
01-01-2017, 01:51 AM
He's easily the MVP right now.

Harden
LeBron
Westbrook
Kawhi
KD

He had 8 turnovers but man, Harden is doing some incredible things with that roster. D'Antoni for COTY if it works out. I was there James Harden was in the ZONE I couldn't believe what I witness he should get the seasonal MVP this year Ive said on PSD when Harden was at OKC that if given the opportunity James Harden and carry a team Harden is future HOF and will rank be rank as top 10 SG when is career is over fantastic all around sharing the rock rebounding leading the Rocket's to victory a TRUE superstar despite the TO but getting your teammates involved and getting the win that's more important

europagnpilgrim
01-01-2017, 02:12 AM
He's easily the MVP right now.

Harden
LeBron
Westbrook
Kawhi
KD

He had 8 turnovers but man, Harden is doing some incredible things with that roster. D'Antoni for COTY if it works out.

He is probably at worst co mvp(some have him mvp right now) right now just as Mike D is probably top 2 candidate for COY, when you have to create for others plus score and handle the ball 8 turnovers really isn't that bad, its like 2 turnovers per qtr which is amazing considering he has the ball pretty much all the time initiating the attack when he is not resting on the bench

Turnovers become overrated when looking at how much a guy has to do on that side of the ball, don't get me wrong its a high number being he almost got a quadruple double with those TO's but he was still a plus 9 when you factor assists to turnovers and I am pretty sure a lot of those assists were 3pt makes since its clear as day Rockets shoot like it seems 40 per game or more

Saddletramp
01-01-2017, 06:15 AM
What a performance. This guy is insane. Going to the game on Monday and I hope something pretty increds happens again.

Saddletramp
01-01-2017, 06:16 AM
What a performance. This guy is insane. He was one rebound away from having a triple double at the half. Going to the game on Monday and I hope something pretty increds happens again.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-01-2017, 11:42 AM
He's easily the MVP right now.

Harden
LeBron
Westbrook
Kawhi
KD

He had 8 turnovers but man, Harden is doing some incredible things with that roster. D'Antoni for COTY if it works out.

+1

hugepatsfan
01-01-2017, 12:25 PM
He is probably at worst co mvp(some have him mvp right now) right now just as Mike D is probably top 2 candidate for COY, when you have to create for others plus score and handle the ball 8 turnovers really isn't that bad, its like 2 turnovers per qtr which is amazing considering he has the ball pretty much all the time initiating the attack when he is not resting on the bench

Turnovers become overrated when looking at how much a guy has to do on that side of the ball, don't get me wrong its a high number being he almost got a quadruple double with those TO's but he was still a plus 9 when you factor assists to turnovers and I am pretty sure a lot of those assists were 3pt makes since its clear as day Rockets shoot like it seems 40 per game or more

8 TOs is not good at all regardless of anything. Harden should be the MVP this year IMO as he's been INCREDIBLE. But let's not snap our spine bending over backwards to act like 8 TOs isn't a bad thing. 2 TOs per quarter is most certainly not amazing lol

IndyRealist
01-01-2017, 01:05 PM
8 TOs is not good at all regardless of anything. Harden should be the MVP this year IMO as he's been INCREDIBLE. But let's not snap our spine bending over backwards to act like 8 TOs isn't a bad thing. 2 TOs per quarter is most certainly not amazing lol

I disagree. The Rockets only had 13 turnovers total. If you figure a certain number of turnovers are going to happen no matter what, then they simply happened to Harden because he has the ball a disproportionate amount of time. Now if they were at 22 turnovers and Harden had 8, that's a different story.

brandt
01-01-2017, 01:18 PM
What a stat line. Do you think he is MVP?
Pretty impressive, especially being that it was the second game of back to back games.

kdspurman
01-01-2017, 02:01 PM
Easily the mvp to this point

Driven
01-01-2017, 02:56 PM
8 TOs is not good at all regardless of anything. Harden should be the MVP this year IMO as he's been INCREDIBLE. But let's not snap our spine bending over backwards to act like 8 TOs isn't a bad thing. 2 TOs per quarter is most certainly not amazing lol

It's hard to get over the turnovers he has, because there's a lot of them. But he handled the ball 141 times last night, passed it 96 times and was directly responsible for 95 points. 8 is a high number, but still an efficient one considering those other numbers.

Side note - he put up more assists than field goals made last night. On a career high 53 point night lol

ewing
01-01-2017, 03:30 PM
I disagree. The Rockets only had 13 turnovers total. If you figure a certain number of turnovers are going to happen no matter what, then they simply happened to Harden because he has the ball a disproportionate amount of time. Now if they were at 22 turnovers and Harden had 8, that's a different story.

Agreed


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FlashBolt
01-01-2017, 03:37 PM
They might be the most surprising team this season. Who would have thought the Rockets would have been this good? I'm not sure if they can keep this up in the playoffs but they can crack 60 wins at this point -- making Harden the easy choice for MVP. I thought about LeBron up there as his team turns to absolute crap when he's not playing but can't deny Harden is doing more.

valade16
01-01-2017, 03:51 PM
I disagree. The Rockets only had 13 turnovers total. If you figure a certain number of turnovers are going to happen no matter what, then they simply happened to Harden because he has the ball a disproportionate amount of time. Now if they were at 22 turnovers and Harden had 8, that's a different story.

It's still a lot and very bad. There is some merit to having more TO's as a result of handling the ball more but the problem is his rate of turnovers had increased disproportionally with his increased responsibilities.

His TO% this season is terrible, it's 19.8. The only starting PGs with higher TO% are Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo.

To compare him to Russell Westbrook, who has similar usage and ball dominance, his TO% is at 15.9% and actually went down from last season. So even though he is handling the ball more he's turning it over at the same rate whereas Harden is turning it over more even relative to his increased workload.

Vee-Rex
01-01-2017, 03:55 PM
They might be the most surprising team this season. Who would have thought the Rockets would have been this good? I'm not sure if they can keep this up in the playoffs but they can crack 60 wins at this point -- making Harden the easy choice for MVP. I thought about LeBron up there as his team turns to absolute crap when he's not playing but can't deny Harden is doing more.

Yeah I'm still chowing down on my crow. Had a nice serving last night. Prior to the season I was convinced the Rockets would fail to make the playoffs. I even suggested that they trade Harden and rebuild. Boy was I wrong.

KnickNyKnick
01-01-2017, 04:55 PM
Harden is a beast. Westbrook should have given KD a big FU and joined Harden in houston.

PowerHouse
01-01-2017, 06:11 PM
Without doing a ton of research on it, I think that has to be the first 50-15-15 game in NBA history.

KnickNyKnick
01-01-2017, 07:32 PM
it was

NFLAccess
01-01-2017, 11:23 PM
Harden!

tredigs
01-01-2017, 11:51 PM
Without doing a ton of research on it, I think that has to be the first 50-15-15 game in NBA history.
I'm sure Wilt did it, but it is amazing. And yes Harden is the MVP. My 20:1 odds seem sound ay.

Jeffy25
01-02-2017, 12:18 AM
Without doing a ton of research on it, I think that has to be the first 50-15-15 game in NBA history.

It's at least the first since 83-84, which is as far as play index goes.

Bird had a 30-15-15. That's insane.

Chronz
01-02-2017, 12:25 AM
Its no 62 in 3

nastynice
01-02-2017, 02:45 AM
Damn, Harden's a sav

ewing
01-02-2017, 07:11 AM
It's still a lot and very bad. There is some merit to having more TO's as a result of handling the ball more but the problem is his rate of turnovers had increased disproportionally with his increased responsibilities.

His TO% this season is terrible, it's 19.8. The only starting PGs with higher TO% are Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo.

To compare him to Russell Westbrook, who has similar usage and ball dominance, his TO% is at 15.9% and actually went down from last season. So even though he is handling the ball more he's turning it over at the same rate whereas Harden is turning it over more even relative to his increased workload.

But the Rockets score more then any team in basketball


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Denverbronco007
01-02-2017, 09:20 AM
Harden has a lot of turnovers because of his teammates. His teammates are often not looking or are not expecting James to pass the ball to them in transition. James is a great passer because he has excellent court vision... There were a lot of passes in this game that should of been handled but resulted in a turnover because of lack of awareness, or Hardens teammates not ready to receive the basketball.

KnickNyKnick
01-02-2017, 09:37 AM
no player has ever put up a 50-15-15 (let alone 53-16-17) since such statistics are traceable, which is 1984 via Basketball Reference.

but like someone else said. Wilt probably did it a few times, and maybe B.Russel?

Amazing Talent Harden is.

KingPosey
01-02-2017, 11:06 AM
Amazing game and an amazing season, but he's not the MVP right now

tredigs
01-02-2017, 11:10 AM
It's still a lot and very bad. There is some merit to having more TO's as a result of handling the ball more but the problem is his rate of turnovers had increased disproportionally with his increased responsibilities.

His TO% this season is terrible, it's 19.8. The only starting PGs with higher TO% are Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo.

To compare him to Russell Westbrook, who has similar usage and ball dominance, his TO% is at 15.9% and actually went down from last season. So even though he is handling the ball more he's turning it over at the same rate whereas Harden is turning it over more even relative to his increased workload.

It's really nothing alarming. Check the TO% of Nash/Stockton/Magic and get back to me.

Giannis94
01-02-2017, 11:33 AM
Interesting fun fact: giannis has a higher PER than Harden.

ewing
01-02-2017, 11:34 AM
Harden has a lot of turnovers because of his teammates. His teammates are often not looking or are not expecting James to pass the ball to them in transition. James is a great passer because he has excellent court vision... There were a lot of passes in this game that should of been handled but resulted in a turnover because of lack of awareness, or Hardens teammates not ready to receive the basketball.

now i think this is homer talk. he is a little lose with his handle but he is also a ball dominate play making point guard for the most explosive offensive team in the league. I am not surprised he turns the ball over a lot but his productivity far out weighs his TOs. He has the ball and ton, he makes a ton of plays, he turns the ball over some.

IndyRealist
01-02-2017, 11:39 AM
Interesting fun fact: giannis has a higher PER than Harden.

Obligatory "PER is nonsense" post.

Driven
01-02-2017, 02:08 PM
now i think this is homer talk. he is a little lose with his handle but he is also a ball dominate play making point guard for the most explosive offensive team in the league. I am not surprised he turns the ball over a lot but his productivity far out weighs his TOs. He has the ball and ton, he makes a ton of plays, he turns the ball over some.

Yeah, to blame it on his teammates is pretty ridiculous. Not that the rockets have the best roster or anything, but his supporting cast is better than probably half the leagues supporting casts.

sep11ie
01-02-2017, 02:14 PM
Keep in mind James is officially given a TO everytime he passes to Brewer.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-03-2017, 04:56 PM
It's still a lot and very bad. There is some merit to having more TO's as a result of handling the ball more but the problem is his rate of turnovers had increased disproportionally with his increased responsibilities.

His TO% this season is terrible, it's 19.8. The only starting PGs with higher TO% are Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo.

To compare him to Russell Westbrook, who has similar usage and ball dominance, his TO% is at 15.9% and actually went down from last season. So even though he is handling the ball more he's turning it over at the same rate whereas Harden is turning it over more even relative to his increased workload.

Forget TOV%, you can do better stat wise. Look at either TOVs per touch or TOVs per time of possession to get a better indication of Harden's turnover rate. He's got the ball in his hands a ridiculous amount. Just checking- he leads the NBA in Touches per game at 99.6, just ahead of Westy whose at 98.3 who is well ahead of 3rd place Lillard at 89.8. He also lead the NBA in Time of Possession- 9 mins vs. Westy's 8.9. Wall's at 8.7 and then again, there is a big gap to Lillard at 7.8.

Comparing Harden's turnover rate to Westbrook, he definitely doesn't look good. But those 2 are so far ahead of the rest of the league in ball dominance that its not really fair to compare Harden's TOV% to other players considering how much he has the ball in his hand.

valade16
01-03-2017, 05:30 PM
Forget TOV%, you can do better stat wise. Look at either TOVs per touch or TOVs per time of possession to get a better indication of Harden's turnover rate. He's got the ball in his hands a ridiculous amount. Just checking- he leads the NBA in Touches per game at 99.6, just ahead of Westy whose at 98.3 who is well ahead of 3rd place Lillard at 89.8. He also lead the NBA in Time of Possession- 9 mins vs. Westy's 8.9. Wall's at 8.7 and then again, there is a big gap to Lillard at 7.8.

Comparing Harden's turnover rate to Westbrook, he definitely doesn't look good. But those 2 are so far ahead of the rest of the league in ball dominance that its not really fair to compare Harden's TOV% to other players considering how much he has the ball in his hand.

It's still fair to compare the rate of turnovers, whether it's by possession, by touch, or by time of possession. We should only excuse Harden's turnovers if we believe it's not possible to turn it over significantly less given his workload, something both Westy and Lillard disprove as they have lower TO rates by all measures.

Even when you compare him to other players with similar massive workloads and ball dominance such as Westy, Kobe, MJ and Iverson he turns the ball over more than any of them.

I applaud him for being able to handle such a workload and he is playing phenomenally, but we can't act like his turnovers are not a bad facet to his game at this point.

europagnpilgrim
01-03-2017, 05:55 PM
8 TOs is not good at all regardless of anything. Harden should be the MVP this year IMO as he's been INCREDIBLE. But let's not snap our spine bending over backwards to act like 8 TOs isn't a bad thing. 2 TOs per quarter is most certainly not amazing lol

I said its a high number but if you have the ball or dribble the ball a thousand times per game and have to create for others/score for 35+minutes at a high usage rate then 2 TO's a qtr isn't all that bad, especially when a freak tip pass or losing the ball off your knee on a drive can happen many a times over the course of a game

when you have 17 assists you are bound to have around 4-5 turnovers on the average, just like I am sure Harden has done that in games, he just had a few more this time around, no big deal

2 turnovers per qtr is not that a big of a deal if you have the ball all the damn time, just like having 4 turnovers for a game is not bad if you have to do it all from PG position, that's 1 TO per qtr

I hope you don't snap your spine or twist your brain cells to figure out something this basic, playing the game helps also to figure things out pretty quickly

Chronz
01-03-2017, 07:42 PM
Its almost like you want to discount all his turnovers. They take away from his performance whether you justify it or not. A (liveball)turnover is the worst possible outcome on a possession, more damaging than simply missing a shot. Not sure what a few of you are trying to get at.

Chronz
01-03-2017, 08:07 PM
Forget TOV%, you can do better stat wise. Look at either TOVs per touch or TOVs per time of possession to get a better indication of Harden's turnover rate. He's got the ball in his hands a ridiculous amount. Just checking- he leads the NBA in Touches per game at 99.6, just ahead of Westy whose at 98.3 who is well ahead of 3rd place Lillard at 89.8. He also lead the NBA in Time of Possession- 9 mins vs. Westy's 8.9. Wall's at 8.7 and then again, there is a big gap to Lillard at 7.8.

Comparing Harden's turnover rate to Westbrook, he definitely doesn't look good. But those 2 are so far ahead of the rest of the league in ball dominance that its not really fair to compare Harden's TOV% to other players considering how much he has the ball in his hand.

His production, both good and bad are a result of his workload and skill. Dont we just weight it all together anyhow? If he had like 2 or 3 turnovers last night it mightve been the greatest raw stat line ever for a RS game. Those turnovers weigh him down whether we like it or not.

Im curious to see how he responds in the playoffs this year tho

tredigs
01-03-2017, 09:07 PM
His production, both good and bad are a result of his workload and skill. Dont we just weight it all together anyhow? If he had like 2 or 3 turnovers last night it mightve been the greatest raw stat line ever for a RS game. Those turnovers weigh him down whether we like it or not.

Im curious to see how he responds in the playoffs this year tho

Precisely, and we do. The net result is a truly incredible season, and it's showing up in the win column in a significant way. He has a team projected to win ~41 games as a dead middle-of-the-road squad on pace for 60 wins. It's pretty sick what he's pulling off.

@Valade, since you brought up TOV% and conveniently passed over my post when I mentioned the rates of some of the All-Time greats at the position, the reality is that Magic/Stockton/Nash have a combined 33 seasons between them with a TOV% higher than Harden's current 19.7. When you factor in the time of possession that PSK brought up earlier, you begin to see that there is nothing absurd about his turnovers what so ever. That said, Westbrook should be applauded for not turning it over more than he is this season (which does sound funny talking about a guy turning it over >5 times a night).

valade16
01-03-2017, 09:48 PM
Precisely, and we do. The net result is a truly incredible season, and it's showing up in the win column in a significant way. He has a team projected to win ~41 games as a dead middle-of-the-road squad on pace for 60 wins. It's pretty sick what he's pulling off.

@Valade, since you brought up TOV% and conveniently passed over my post when I mentioned the rates of some of the All-Time greats at the position, the reality is that Magic/Stockton/Nash have a combined 33 seasons between them with a TOV% higher than Harden's current 19.7. When you factor in the time of possession that PSK brought up earlier, you begin to see that there is nothing absurd about his turnovers what so ever. That said, Westbrook should be applauded for not turning it over more than he is this season (which does sound funny talking about a guy turning it over >5 times a night).

I'm simply saying stop excusing his TO% and turnover rate as a byproduct of his workload when others have shown the ability to not turn the ball over as much given his workload. Again, Jordan, Westy, Kobe and AI all had tremendous workloads and turned the ball over less. The guys you listed played a combined 50 seasons, so he's in the middle in terms of number of seasons below and above (slightly above 50%).

what he is doing is amazing. That game was amazing. But 8 TOs was not good. Obviously 52/17/16 more than makes up for it

tredigs
01-03-2017, 10:22 PM
I'm simply saying stop excusing his TO% and turnover rate as a byproduct of his workload when others have shown the ability to not turn the ball over as much given his workload. Again, Jordan, Westy, Kobe and AI all had tremendous workloads and turned the ball over less. The guys you listed played a combined 50 seasons, so he's in the middle in terms of number of seasons below and above (slightly above 50%).

what he is doing is amazing. That game was amazing. But 8 TOs was not good. Obviously 52/17/16 more than makes up for it

Actually it's better than 65% of their seasons in regards to TOV%. With the way some talk about his turnovers, I imagine that reality turns some heads.

His 8 turnovers on that historic line amounted to a 19.1 TOV% and a 74.5% Assist% by the way (best single season Assist% is Stockton's 57.4 in '91). So yeah, I'd say he made up for it between that and the 16 boards and 53 on a 78% TS lol. It was a game for the ages.

Chronz
01-03-2017, 11:07 PM
Precisely, and we do. The net result is a truly incredible season, and it's showing up in the win column in a significant way. He has a team projected to win ~41 games as a dead middle-of-the-road squad on pace for 60 wins. It's pretty sick what he's pulling off.

@Valade, since you brought up TOV% and conveniently passed over my post when I mentioned the rates of some of the All-Time greats at the position, the reality is that Magic/Stockton/Nash have a combined 33 seasons between them with a TOV% higher than Harden's current 19.7. When you factor in the time of possession that PSK brought up earlier, you begin to see that there is nothing absurd about his turnovers what so ever. That said, Westbrook should be applauded for not turning it over more than he is this season (which does sound funny talking about a guy turning it over >5 times a night).

I cant wait to see him in the playoffs, teams are gonna give him the Curry treatment (the way the Clips did in our series) and take the ball out of his hands and make someone else make a play. That said, hes probably best equipped now to take advantage of all the attention and weapons around him.

The Rockets are truly unique team that spaces the floor more than any team in history, as great as Harden has been, I gotta give alot of credit to the overall system in place as well. They've truly constructed a perfect fit around Harden's talents. EG is a lowkey all-star quality player imo and when Harden sits he comes in and basically replicates Harden's game as best he can and his numbers practically double in those sets.

That much shooting and that much monopolization of the ball would enhances most players numbers, Harden is enjoying this year like no other thats for sure.



As for the Magic argument, Magic didn't chuck as much and led historically elite offenses, its fair to say he was a better protector of the basketball considering he looked to pass more frequently than he looked to score, even though he seriously could've scored alot more.

tredigs
01-03-2017, 11:54 PM
I cant wait to see him in the playoffs, teams are gonna give him the Curry treatment (the way the Clips did in our series) and take the ball out of his hands and make someone else make a play. That said, hes probably best equipped now to take advantage of all the attention and weapons around him.

The Rockets are truly unique team that spaces the floor more than any team in history, as great as Harden has been, I gotta give alot of credit to the overall system in place as well. They've truly constructed a perfect fit around Harden's talents. EG is a lowkey all-star quality player imo and when Harden sits he comes in and basically replicates Harden's game as best he can and his numbers practically double in those sets.

That much shooting and that much monopolization of the ball would enhances most players numbers, Harden is enjoying this year like no other thats for sure.



As for the Magic argument, Magic didn't chuck as much and led historically elite offenses, its fair to say he was a better protector of the basketball considering he looked to pass more frequently than he looked to score, even though he seriously could've scored alot more.
Harden is also leading a historically elite offense. In fact only 1 season of Showtime (the top rated offense all time) had a higher rated offensive rating than these Rockets, and it was by a hair. And while EG is awesome in his role this year (always is when he's healthy), he's not Kareem, and Ryan Anderson isn't James Worthy. Many, many players have had monopolization of the ball to the degree that Harden has, but his skill-set is simply more fine tuned and more dynamic than 99.9% of them, hence the production and subsequent wins that they are pulling off. They're 4th in SRS - ahead of the Spurs and JUST behind the Cavs (they were ahead of Cleveland 2 nights ago). Nobody would have thought that possible 3 months ago.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-04-2017, 12:20 AM
It's still fair to compare the rate of turnovers, whether it's by possession, by touch, or by time of possession. We should only excuse Harden's turnovers if we believe it's not possible to turn it over significantly less given his workload, something both Westy and Lillard disprove as they have lower TO rates by all measures.

Even when you compare him to other players with similar massive workloads and ball dominance such as Westy, Kobe, MJ and Iverson he turns the ball over more than any of them.

I applaud him for being able to handle such a workload and he is playing phenomenally, but we can't act like his turnovers are not a bad facet to his game at this point.

My point was that TOV% is comparing them by possessions, which is fine if we didn't have more advanced better metrics to compare. But we do. And one thing you can see with the touches/time of possession stats is that Harden's is actually significantly higher than Lillard's despite them having relatively similar Usage.

I'm all for acknowledging his turnovers as an issue as long as we're acknowledging that he has the ball in his hands an insane amount and therefore is likely to turn the ball over more because of that.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-04-2017, 12:23 AM
Its almost like you want to discount all his turnovers. They take away from his performance whether you justify it or not. A (liveball)turnover is the worst possible outcome on a possession, more damaging than simply missing a shot. Not sure what a few of you are trying to get at.

Interestingly, Russ had a disproportionately high # of deadball turnovers in relation to live ball ones last I checked. Not sure what those #'s are now but at one point he was among the top 3 in deadball tov% (out of total tovs)

PatsSoxKnicks
01-04-2017, 12:30 AM
His production, both good and bad are a result of his workload and skill. Dont we just weight it all together anyhow? If he had like 2 or 3 turnovers last night it mightve been the greatest raw stat line ever for a RS game. Those turnovers weigh him down whether we like it or not.

Im curious to see how he responds in the playoffs this year tho

We do end up weighting it all together. And a lot of that is a function of the current stats we have in the public. But with stats on NBA.com, we really should be using TOVs per touch or tov per time of possession instead of TOV%. It's an improvement on the statistic. As I mentioned earlier, Harden has a much higher rate of touches per game/time of possession than Lillard despite them having relatively similar Usages.

Unfortunately, many of the all in one metrics still use some of the older box score stats. Some new ones- like Player Tracking Plus-Minus use turnovers per touch but for the most part, we're left with a lot of pre SportVU all in one metrics.

And again, I'm not trying to discount the turnovers but if he had a disproportionate amount of touches in the game (say he had like 110 touches), then the high number of turnovers isn't as bad as it looks. Unfortunately, we're still not at the point where we're capturing this in a lot of the all in one metrics (outside of RPM which indirectly might capture the impact of his turnovers).

PowerHouse
01-04-2017, 05:53 PM
no player has ever put up a 50-15-15 (let alone 53-16-17) since such statistics are traceable, which is 1984 via Basketball Reference.

but like someone else said. Wilt probably did it a few times, and maybe B.Russel?

Amazing Talent Harden is.

Bill Russell never had a 40 point game let alone a 50.