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hughest4
12-15-2016, 05:47 PM
I understand why coaches rest their players, as they want them to be fresh for a long playoff run...but does anybody else have a huge issue with it?

These athletes should not need a game off after 1/3 of the season. They should be in good enough shape to make it through a season. If they are injured thats one thing, but scheduled rest days is BS. Need a rest day, take a practice off.

I was listening to ESPN NY and they brought up the fact that Lebron, Kyrie, and Love didnt even travel with the team to Memphis. Not only were they not there to support their teammates, but they werent even available in the case of an emergency. There are times where multiple teams get hit with some sort of stomach bug or flu right before a game. At the very least these guys should have been at the arena.

Another argument is that fans are paying massive amounts of money to see star players and then they go to the game just to find out their favorite player is too tired to play.

I know I am ranting, but I feel like Silver needs to put an end to this. David Stern definitely had a very different view on this situation.

Agree? Disagree?

Vee-Rex
12-15-2016, 06:03 PM
I hear you, man. It sucks for fans who spend big money only to have that happen.

Thems the breaks, though. Teams are trying to win trophies and they do what it takes.

Imagine if coach decides to force a guy to play instead of resting even knowing his legs feel heavy and tired. Then he gets injured and not only ruins that team's championship hopes, but he is absent for future games in which fans have paid big money to see. So it could result in an even bigger whammy.

There are no guarantees. That's why usually it says something like that on the back of the tickets. Buy at your own risk because there's no guarantee the player you wanna see will be playing.

When I buy tickets I try to avoid buying for games that are on the 2nd night of a b2b for that very possibility of rest.

At least Silver recognized it and included starting the season a week earlier in the new CBA. That should help reduce the number of b2b's and maybe eliminate the 4 games in 5 nights entirely (I thought this was supposed to be gone already though).

Regardless... people just gotta deal with it and move on IMO.

nycericanguy
12-15-2016, 06:09 PM
It is getting a bit ridiculous. I can understand it for older guys, especially on B2B's... but teams are now resting even their younger stars. I mean it's not like these guys today play a ton of B2B's or 40+mpg.

Hawkeye15
12-15-2016, 06:28 PM
They have done countless studies and counting, on how to get a player through a regular season, and be as close to 100% healthy as possible for the playoffs. I know it's frustrating for the fans, but science wins..

Ariza's Better
12-15-2016, 06:36 PM
No problem with it. Teams are trying win championships, not entertain opposition fans.

nycericanguy
12-15-2016, 06:46 PM
They have done countless studies and counting, on how to get a player through a regular season, and be as close to 100% healthy as possible for the playoffs. I know it's frustrating for the fans, but science wins..

then why do injuries seem to be at an all time high?

Meanwhile guys used to play 16 preseason games, 82 regular season games, and 40+ mpg and not get injured as much. MJ had like one major injury, other than that he played basically every game.

same for pitchers in MLB who are babied so much yet are always injured anyway.

dhopisthename
12-15-2016, 06:47 PM
I think it needs to stop because of stuff like this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzrZz9bUkAANvWW.jpg . I get it when someone gets hurt, but to spend a 100+ on a ticket to see the cavs B team is just stupid. Another option is that when this happens fans get a refund, but we know that will never happen.

Hawkeye15
12-15-2016, 06:52 PM
then why do injuries seem to be at an all time high?

Meanwhile guys used to play 16 preseason games, 82 regular season games, and 40+ mpg and not get injured as much. MJ had like one major injury, other than that he played basically every game.

same for pitchers in MLB who are babied so much yet are always injured anyway.

I am not one of the sports scientists that came up with this, you would have to ask them. But that is the outcome of all the studies being done.

Besides, each generation is getting wussier, so why would athletes be any different? We need cry zones over a stupid election for crying out loud.

hughest4
12-15-2016, 07:09 PM
I get the concept of resting your star players when they need it but,

1: Why are these guys so fatigued less than 1/3 of the way into the season? They are supposed to be elite athletes.

2: Shouldn't they at least travel and support their teammates who are out there playing?

ManRam
12-15-2016, 07:14 PM
Don't care one bit. If they think it will help increase the odds of season-long health, and especially playoff health, then I'll more than gladly deal with it. The name of the game is to win. Sucks for the fans that spent the money, but tough luck. It's a rare instance. And I don't even know how you'd change the rules to prevent that. All Cleveland would have to do is say those guys tweaked a hammy or something and the same result happens. I guess you can try to get teams to stagger rest, but again, I get the strategy in just doing it all at once. Guess I ultimately just don't give a ****.

Happens all the time in baseball, a much less strenuous sport, but since the NBA is a star-driven product it's obviously significantly-more noticeable there. Hence the outrage.

da ThRONe
12-15-2016, 07:31 PM
The point of resting is to keep guys healthy it's not necessarily about fatigue as of now as much as fighting fatigue all season long. If this is a problem it's a league problem. 82 games are too many and the 30th game of the season is meaningless.

warfelg
12-15-2016, 07:39 PM
I'm fine with it; I wish teams were forced to announce it sooner so people could plan better.

Vee-Rex
12-15-2016, 07:49 PM
I get the concept of resting your star players when they need it but,

1: Why are these guys so fatigued less than 1/3 of the way into the season? They are supposed to be elite athletes.

2: Shouldn't they at least travel and support their teammates who are out there playing?

Can't speak for LMA and Cousins and why they had to rest, but I can give a little insight into the Cavs.

1. Kevin Love - was dealing with some back spasms in the past few days. He's playing really well but I understand wanting to rest him.

2. Kyrie Irving - told coach Lue prior to Charlotte's game that his legs felt heavy and tired. He had a bad game and so Lue let him rest. Sure, it's 1/3 of the season but Kyrie played 39 mpg through June and an intense 7-game series in the finals, then went on to compete in the Olympics. They're elite athletes but they're still human.

3. LeBron is 32, just put the team on his back and carried us vs. Charlotte (44 points 10 assists 9 rebounds) on Saturday. Played Tuesday vs. Memphis, so I can understand resting him for the b2b. Why play him when you're gonna rest Kyrie and Kevin and put even more strain on him?

Phantom Dreamer
12-15-2016, 07:55 PM
not entertain opposition fans.Pretty sure that's one of the NBA's business models. Resting healthy players should not be tolerated. Limit a guy's minutes. If you think a player who normally plays 36-38 minutes needs a break, play him 30-32 then, not sit completely or not even travel with the team.

nycericanguy
12-15-2016, 08:13 PM
another thing i dont like about it is its not fair for competitive reasons.

team A plays PHI one night, they have to face a rested Embid who plays every other game and even is excused from travel... that's a much tougher game vs the next team that plays PHI without Embiid.

Clint Olbrock
12-15-2016, 08:47 PM
There is no issue with it. It's all strategic.

The league gets their hands in players games/minutes then it's all down hill from there.

It's stupid, let the coach do his thing and coach.

Ariza's Better
12-15-2016, 09:09 PM
Pretty sure that's one of the NBA's business models. Resting healthy players should not be tolerated. Limit a guy's minutes. If you think a player who normally plays 36-38 minutes needs a break, play him 30-32 then, not sit completely or not even travel with the team.
I don't care if that's an NBA business model. It's not a team or coach's job to entertain opposition fans.

Phantom Dreamer
12-15-2016, 09:19 PM
Cavaliers coach Tyronn Lue apologizes to Memphis fans for resting LeBron James,*others.
If he didn't believe it was wrong, he would have no need to apologize and ask for forgiveness.

Clint Olbrock
12-15-2016, 09:56 PM
Cavaliers coach Tyronn Lue apologizes to Memphis fans for resting LeBron James,*others.
If he didn't believe it was wrong, he would have no need to apologize and ask for forgiveness.

He also said the night before that he could've rested all 3 on the front side of the back to back but wanted the HOME fans to see at least 2 of the 3 star players.

It is 100% not coach Lue or any coach's job to appease any opposition's fan base.

He apologizes to be PC, dude knows resting was the right move and he would/will do it again.

It's about being as healthy as possible come playoffs, nothing else matters.

Miltstar
12-15-2016, 11:15 PM
It's arrogance as far as I see it, I'm not impressed by it. I get resting players but to basically forfeit a game that fans pay to see is bs

Scoots
12-15-2016, 11:24 PM
Modern players have tuned their bodies much closer to the limit so they are more likely to be injured when they preform at 100%.

It's like the 24 hours of Le Mans ... Louis Rosier in 1950 drove 23 hours and 15 minutes of the race, now drivers seldom go even 10 hours and it's because the car and driver are stressed to the maximum all the time.

Now with every player being tuned to perform at much closer to 100% of what they are capable all the time any player going at 80% hurts the team a lot more than it used to.

Jeffy25
12-16-2016, 06:10 AM
then why do injuries seem to be at an all time high?

Meanwhile guys used to play 16 preseason games, 82 regular season games, and 40+ mpg and not get injured as much. MJ had like one major injury, other than that he played basically every game.

same for pitchers in MLB who are babied so much yet are always injured anyway.
evidence?

Also, ever think maybe they didn't diagnose the injuries in the past?

nycericanguy
12-16-2016, 10:58 AM
evidence?

Also, ever think maybe they didn't diagnose the injuries in the past?

i havent looked it up but I think it's pretty clear that players, not just in NBA but sports in general get injured way more often. how many guys are able to play 82 games these days? Players seemed like they were iron men a decade or two back.

if guys were just playing through injuries that were undiagnosed, then it seemed to have no effect on them because its not like the stars had short careers in the previous generation. Stockton & Malone played like every game for 19 years together.

nycericanguy
12-16-2016, 11:01 AM
when i was growing up as a fan, you didn't worry so much about injuries... other than a freak accident like Ewing landing on his wrist and breaking it, you knew Ewing, Oakley and co were going to play 80 games and close to 40mpg... it was almost a given. you didnt worry about them playing back to backs or 4 in 5.... it didn;t even cross your ming.

Now everything in sports has to have the "if healthy" disclaimer". injuries are such a huge concern now.

ManRam
12-16-2016, 11:07 AM
Cavaliers coach Tyronn Lue apologizes to Memphis fans for resting LeBron James,*others.
If he didn't believe it was wrong, he would have no need to apologize and ask for forgiveness.

Not sure that's good logic.

Read his apology.


Iím sorry to the fans who have to go through this because you get a chance to see LeBron, Kyrie and Kevin one time a year. I understand that, but it had nothing to do with the decision.

Of course you want to see LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love play. But we have 11 other professionals in the locker room that are also professional players and will also give you everything they got. So hopefully they will give you a good game. Those guys in there are NBA champions also.

So, I understand the fansí reaction, but it was nothing toward the Memphis fans or the organization, or (Grizzlies coach David) Fizdale, whoís my guy.

He can absolutely have no regrets and a strong conviction that resting his players was the right thing for his team while still understanding how it might bother some fans. His job is to win a championship, not to appease Memphis' fans. It's a nice gesture to apologize to the fans but he's not saying he did anything wrong. And he didn't.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-16-2016, 11:25 AM
They need to cut the season to 64 games or something, they never will because it will damage revenue, but if they took the $ out of it, it's an easy decision.

Any other sport this is a problem because regular season stat totals are a thing of history for the sport Basketball stats is all about averages, nobody cares who the leader was in Total points, rather points per game. Cutting the amount of games wouldn't effect the history of the sport at all and would keep athletes healthier, giving a better on-court product. If they have to increase ticket expenses to offset the loss in # of games, so be it as long as the product is better.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 01:32 PM
They need to cut the season to 64 games or something, they never will because it will damage revenue, but if they took the $ out of it, it's an easy decision.

Any other sport this is a problem because regular season stat totals are a thing of history for the sport Basketball stats is all about averages, nobody cares who the leader was in Total points, rather points per game. Cutting the amount of games wouldn't effect the history of the sport at all and would keep athletes healthier, giving a better on-court product. If they have to increase ticket expenses to offset the loss in # of games, so be it as long as the product is better.

Why? MLB and NHL have regular rest for players and it doesn't seem to be an issue. What makes the NBA special?

Clint Olbrock
12-16-2016, 03:08 PM
It's arrogance as far as I see it, I'm not impressed by it. I get resting players but to basically forfeit a game that fans pay to see is bs

It's not supposed to be impressive.. It's strategic. Although I wouldn't expect you to understand, the Raptors have only been out of the 1st round TWICE their entire existence.

Maybe you all should try resting players from time to time.

SfgiantsJD3
12-16-2016, 03:50 PM
How would Cleveland Fans feel if the Warriors left Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson home for Christmas day? It would give the players time to be with their families and not give Cleveland any experience with Durant on the Warriors. Maybe a taste of the same medicine.

ballallday
12-16-2016, 04:04 PM
I think limiting playing time is better then nights off imo. Play lebron 20min per game if you want to rest throughout the season.


"Each generation getting wussier? Come on wtf."


Athletes now are bigger (key reason for more injuries), stronger, faster, more talented.

Sorry but this talk of back in my day bs is getting old.

Centers can actually dribble well, pass and shoot threes, run the floor and attack the rim from the 3 point line. Guys who are power fowards like karl malone or even guys like shaq were stationary next to what our c/pf are doing today = less collisions back in your day compared to now. They use to catch the ball dribble twice and hook the ball in or dunk it 2 ft from rim = minimal contact. Now you got guys like demarcus driving down the lane, spin moves and dunking on people. Also the verticality rule centers are able to jump and make contact with players = more contact.

Point guards are also way faster and stronger then they use to be... Also the guys dunking now are more athletic, we have guys like giannis and durant 7ft tall doing what 6'6 guys did back in the day. The old slam dunk comp looks like a joke compared to what players are doing now. I bet players verticals are significantly higher on jump shots then they use to be, that alone can attribute to more injuries. There are tones of reasons of increased injuries... Simple answer bigger bodies = more injuries.

Back in your day jordan was 6-6, 195lb http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1997/
Now our jordan = lebron is 6-8, 250lb http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Explain that enough? Weight alone will = more injuries. All my friends who are tall don't play ball anymore because their bodies can't handle it anymore. 35+

I know there are tones of other examples just need to think about it rather then just saying oh back when jordan was playing he soared in the air when he dunked. he could have scored 1000 points but didn't because he was such a team player. He was dying from the flu and still won playoff game. get out of here with that...

Clint Olbrock
12-16-2016, 04:18 PM
How would Cleveland Fans feel if the Warriors left Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson home for Christmas day? It would give the players time to be with their families and not give Cleveland any experience with Durant on the Warriors. Maybe a taste of the same medicine.

Like the Spurs did to the Heat a few years back during an early regular season game?

Hawkeye15
12-16-2016, 04:26 PM
I think limiting playing time is better then nights off imo. Play lebron 20min per game if you want to rest throughout the season.


"Each generation getting wussier? Come on wtf."


Athletes now are bigger (key reason for more injuries), stronger, faster, more talented.

Sorry but this talk of back in my day bs is getting old.

Centers can actually dribble well, pass and shoot threes, run the floor and attack the rim from the 3 point line. Guys who are power fowards like karl malone or even guys like shaq were stationary next to what our c/pf are doing today = less collisions back in your day compared to now. They use to catch the ball dribble twice and hook the ball in or dunk it 2 ft from rim = minimal contact. Now you got guys like demarcus driving down the lane, spin moves and dunking on people. Also the verticality rule centers are able to jump and make contact with players = more contact.

Point guards are also way faster and stronger then they use to be... Also the guys dunking now are more athletic, we have guys like giannis and durant 7ft tall doing what 6'6 guys did back in the day. The old slam dunk comp looks like a joke compared to what players are doing now. I bet players verticals are significantly higher on jump shots then they use to be, that alone can attribute to more injuries. There are tones of reasons of increased injuries... Simple answer bigger bodies = more injuries.

Back in your day jordan was 6-6, 195lb http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1997/
Now our jordan = lebron is 6-8, 250lb http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Explain that enough? Weight alone will = more injuries. All my friends who are tall don't play ball anymore because their bodies can't handle it anymore. 35+

I know there are tones of other examples just need to think about it rather then just saying oh back when jordan was playing he soared in the air when he dunked. he could have scored 1000 points but didn't because he was such a team player. He was dying from the flu and still won playoff game. get out of here with that...

I think you missed the point of my comment....

Vee-Rex
12-16-2016, 04:35 PM
How would Cleveland Fans feel if the Warriors left Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson home for Christmas day? It would give the players time to be with their families and not give Cleveland any experience with Durant on the Warriors. Maybe a taste of the same medicine.

Ignoring that this is a terrible analogy... I wouldn't give a **** about it. If I know anything about Cavs fans is they would troll and call the Warriors *****es instead of crying about not getting to witness Durant or Steph up close. There's a rivalry involved that makes your statement not apply at all.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 04:47 PM
How would Cleveland Fans feel if the Warriors left Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson home for Christmas day? It would give the players time to be with their families and not give Cleveland any experience with Durant on the Warriors. Maybe a taste of the same medicine.

Not only do I think the Warriors should do it, I think the Cavs fans should be impressed with Kerr's balls to do that in the face of NBA marketing people.

5ass
12-16-2016, 04:54 PM
There are way too many back to backs and sometimes too many games in a short stretch. It's not really fun watching a tired team anyway. Maybe you'll see less DNP-rest when they add an extra week onto the regular season next year.

Chronz
12-16-2016, 05:43 PM
then why do injuries seem to be at an all time high?

Meanwhile guys used to play 16 preseason games, 82 regular season games, and 40+ mpg and not get injured as much. MJ had like one major injury, other than that he played basically every game.

same for pitchers in MLB who are babied so much yet are always injured anyway.

One theory is that players are playing harder due to equipment and strategies. Also they are playing longer. Imagine if bird sat a few games but played years longer

ewing
12-16-2016, 06:39 PM
I have no problem with it but i also think accepting it goes along with a changing current in sports culture. Used to be that you were expected to think that you were better then you were. When you played a top team as a middle on the road you went in with a chip on your shoulder. you didn't sit your guys b/c you were going to lose that one anyhow. i see much less us vs them attitude in a lot of sports. Pop even though he sits his guys probably promotes it to his team more then most.

Phantom Dreamer
12-16-2016, 06:50 PM
They need to cut the season to 64 games or something, they never will because it will damage revenue, but if they took the $ out of it, it's an easy decision.

Any other sport this is a problem because regular season stat totals are a thing of history for the sport Basketball stats is all about averages, nobody cares who the leader was in Total points, rather points per game. Cutting the amount of games wouldn't effect the history of the sport at all and would keep athletes healthier, giving a better on-court product. If they have to increase ticket expenses to offset the loss in # of games, so be it as long as the product is better.

Why? MLB and NHL have regular rest for players and it doesn't seem to be an issue. What makes the NBA special?Because it is a rather recent phenomenon and in some cases, a visiting team plays an opposing team just once on the road. Also, baseball is played 6-7 days a week vs the NBA's 3-4.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 07:10 PM
Because it is a rather recent phenomenon and in some cases, a visiting team plays an opposing team just once on the road. Also, baseball is played 6-7 days a week vs the NBA's 3-4.

I should take a look at the NHL home/away scheduling and see if it is similar.

SteBO
12-16-2016, 09:12 PM
Like the Spurs did to the Heat a few years back during an early regular season game?
Miami pulled the exact same move @San Antonio in their next meeting that same year. LBJ & Wade sat out that game.

hughest4
12-16-2016, 09:37 PM
Why? MLB and NHL have regular rest for players and it doesn't seem to be an issue. What makes the NBA special?

A lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't think lumping the NHL in is one of them.

I realize that NHL players don't play 35-40 minutes per game, but the 15-30 minutes that they are playing is extremely physically demanding on the body. The physicality they endure on a single shift is probably more than some basketball players endure in an entire game.

On the extremely rare occasion that an NHL player gets a rest day, it is well deserved.

Mell413
12-16-2016, 09:45 PM
I don't have an issue with it. It sucks but if the goal is to win a title I get it. If they have to sit games they should reduce the amount of games. The regular season is essentially a glorified preseason for some teams. It won't happen but maybe if they eliminated some playoff spots the regular season would be more valuable.

Chronz
12-16-2016, 10:38 PM
I don't have an issue with it. It sucks but if the goal is to win a title I get it. If they have to sit games they should reduce the amount of games. The regular season is essentially a glorified preseason for some teams. It won't happen but maybe if they eliminated some playoff spots the regular season would be more valuable.

The NBA doesn't want a glorified preseason tho

Scoots
12-17-2016, 01:09 AM
A lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't think lumping the NHL in is one of them.

I realize that NHL players don't play 35-40 minutes per game, but the 15-30 minutes that they are playing is extremely physically demanding on the body. The physicality they endure on a single shift is probably more than some basketball players endure in an entire game.

On the extremely rare occasion that an NHL player gets a rest day, it is well deserved.

The point I was trying to make was that NHL players do get rest days and I don't hear this complaining when they do.

hughest4
12-17-2016, 01:29 AM
The point I was trying to make was that NHL players do get rest days and I don't hear this complaining when they do.

And the point I was trying to make is that it really doesn't happen all that often.
There are times that guys get a healthy scratch but 90% of the time its because they are under performing. Add in the fact that the game is absolutely brutal and that is why nobody complains.

Goalies are the exception and they get rest days.

Sadds The Gr8
12-17-2016, 10:29 AM
Don't care one bit. If they think it will help increase the odds of season-long health, and especially playoff health, then I'll more than gladly deal with it. The name of the game is to win. Sucks for the fans that spent the money, but tough luck. It's a rare instance. And I don't even know how you'd change the rules to prevent that. All Cleveland would have to do is say those guys tweaked a hammy or something and the same result happens. I guess you can try to get teams to stagger rest, but again, I get the strategy in just doing it all at once. Guess I ultimately just don't give a ****.

Happens all the time in baseball, a much less strenuous sport, but since the NBA is a star-driven product it's obviously significantly-more noticeable there. Hence the outrage.

This.


I hate the "he shouldn't rest during road games" argument. Why the **** should his obligation be to opposing fans? Players should only care about their own team's fans. If I were Lebron I couldn't give 2 ****s what Memphis fans thought about me resting.

Soccer and Baseball players rest all the time and no one complains, but everyone cries when NBA players do it...

Scoots
12-17-2016, 10:46 AM
And the point I was trying to make is that it really doesn't happen all that often.
There are times that guys get a healthy scratch but 90% of the time its because they are under performing. Add in the fact that the game is absolutely brutal and that is why nobody complains.

Goalies are the exception and they get rest days.

I agree that the NHL is a far more taxing game. The only point is fans don't complain about players getting rest ... which you agree with. :)

I think the only reasons the NFL doesn't rest players is because there are so few games to play and they are all injured all the time anyhow.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2016, 11:33 AM
No one would care if Mike Dunleavy or James Jones took a rest day.

So why is it okay for them to do it but not LeBron or Love or Irving? Fame or not, they're as human as any other player.

It sucks, it really really sucks if you spent money to see them but it's just one of those things you gotta live with. The double standard is not cool and it's unfair. Rest is rest - every single person alive needs it at some point or another.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2016, 11:42 AM
I think the only reasons the NFL doesn't rest players is because there are so few games to play and they are all injured all the time anyhow.

Yep. The NFL's games are usually a week apart so it's an unusual circumstance if a player's body isn't rested in time for the next game. The coaches have studied extensively on how to maximize the rest for their players and have designed their practices with that in mind.

If there was ever a situation where a player's body was severely worn down and he needed rest, you can bet your butt that they'd rest the player. Regardless, each game is so meaningful that I imagine opposing fans would most likely cheer if a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers wasn't playing because of rest. Gives their team more hope for winning an important game.

Miltstar
12-27-2016, 02:24 AM
it literally sickens me when I see superstar athletes sit on the bench smiling and chit chatting not even giving a care whether they win a game in which fans paid good money to see.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 09:12 AM
it literally sickens me when I see superstar athletes sit on the bench smiling and chit chatting not even giving a care whether they win a game in which fans paid good money to see.

This.

NBA worked hard this year to increase travel days and reduce back to backs.

I think they can take it further. No home-away or away-home back to backs. 2 Home games only. Make the first game a matinee and the second game a later game. IE: Cavs back to back play Saturday at 12:00, Sunday at 7:30 PM.

I feel like there should be some protections for fans:
I think teams should be barred from resting guys without a legit medical injury excuse on the road. That's what bothers me. They almost never do this to home fans. They let them play. But the rest on the road all the time. I don't care if the Cavs show up in Philly and LeBron only plays 10 minutes, just don't let him no show. Let him no show in Cleveland where they have 41 chances to see him play.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 09:28 AM
it literally sickens me when I see superstar athletes sit on the bench smiling and chit chatting not even giving a care whether they win a game in which fans paid good money to see.

You actually get ill? That's impressive somatic control you give sports there.

I don't know that I've ever seen a true superstar not caring while their team is losing. But at the same time, LeBron has played 1200 games, I don't expect it to ruin his day if his team loses a meaningless game.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 09:35 AM
You actually get ill? That's impressive somatic control you give sports there.

I don't know that I've ever seen a true superstar not caring while their team is losing. But at the same time, LeBron has played 1200 games, I don't expect it to ruin his day if his team loses a meaningless game.

At least for me, as I expressed above, the issue for me is when that stuff happens on the road. Like as a Sixer fan I only get so many chances to see guys like KD, Curry, LeBron....when I spend the money to go see those guys and they announce last minute that I won't be seeing them...I'm pissed. Pissed I took time off work, spent the money, traveled, ect.

Do that stuff to home fans. Warrior fans have 41 chances to see all these guys. If they take 5-7 rest games at home, not many fans are going to miss out on their only chance to see them.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 09:36 AM
This.

NBA worked hard this year to increase travel days and reduce back to backs.

I think they can take it further. No home-away or away-home back to backs. 2 Home games only. Make the first game a matinee and the second game a later game. IE: Cavs back to back play Saturday at 12:00, Sunday at 7:30 PM.

I feel like there should be some protections for fans:
I think teams should be barred from resting guys without a legit medical injury excuse on the road. That's what bothers me. They almost never do this to home fans. They let them play. But the rest on the road all the time. I don't care if the Cavs show up in Philly and LeBron only plays 10 minutes, just don't let him no show. Let him no show in Cleveland where they have 41 chances to see him play.

Fatigue is a "legit medical excuse" ... the issue with controlling these kinds of things is that you are just asking training staffs to lie which isn't really a positive step. It's like the Batson rule of jury selection ... prosecutors were routinely excluding black jurors because they are less likely to find someone guilty, particularly in capital cases ... where lawyers are required to provide a non-race based reason for the exclusion of a juror so they just plan their lie in advance ... it's following the letter of the rule if not the spirit, and in the end nothing changes, it just puts a coat of paint on an existing behavior to make it FEEL better.

The point of a regular season NBA game is to improve post-season seeding ... after that is taken care of enough then the most important thing is being at top shape for game 7 of the finals.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 09:42 AM
At least for me, as I expressed above, the issue for me is when that stuff happens on the road. Like as a Sixer fan I only get so many chances to see guys like KD, Curry, LeBron....when I spend the money to go see those guys and they announce last minute that I won't be seeing them...I'm pissed. Pissed I took time off work, spent the money, traveled, ect.

Do that stuff to home fans. Warrior fans have 41 chances to see all these guys. If they take 5-7 rest games at home, not many fans are going to miss out on their only chance to see them.

FWIW, since I live in Texas, I get only 6 chances to see the Warriors in person, and while it would suck to drive 6 hours to not see KD play, I'd much rather have that happen and win a title than see them play and not win.

Not that there is a direct line you can draw from one to the other.

Think of it this way ... when my wife was pregnant she went to one doctor every month, but when she went into labor he wasn't available so my kids were all delivered by other doctors. I take my car to a shop where I know the owner is a very careful and particular kind of mechanic, but my car isn't always worked on by that guy. If I pay huge money and fly across the country to see a Broadway show, I don't get to decide who is in the various roles ... in fact when Obama went to see Hamilton, Hamilton was played by the understudy because of scheduled rest ... no kidding. The NBA is a job to the players, and it's entertainment to us ... it should not be required that players justify why they are not working on any particular day.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 09:42 AM
Fatigue is a "legit medical excuse" ... the issue with controlling these kinds of things is that you are just asking training staffs to lie which isn't really a positive step. It's like the Batson rule of jury selection ... prosecutors were routinely excluding black jurors because they are less likely to find someone guilty, particularly in capital cases ... where lawyers are required to provide a non-race based reason for the exclusion of a juror so they just plan their lie in advance ... it's following the letter of the rule if not the spirit, and in the end nothing changes, it just puts a coat of paint on an existing behavior to make it FEEL better.

The point of a regular season NBA game is to improve post-season seeding ... after that is taken care of enough then the most important thing is being at top shape for game 7 of the finals.

I'll say this:

Honestly; I rather be lied to and told "Hey, you won't be seeing Curry in his only Philly appearance this year because his ankles have been sore and it's precautionary." Rather than just "Oh we're giving him the night off."

Reason why - First one doesn't make me mad. It's like he needs it. To me the second one sounds like an insult of "You guys suck so much we're going to intentionally make it harder on ourselves and still be able to beat you."

I hate sounding "get off my lawn" about all of this, but it is something that Silver needs to address.

Because it's honestly why I gave up my season tickets. I was tired of paying for them, really wanting certain games, and then going and hearing a guy wasn't going to show up.

Miltstar
12-27-2016, 09:44 AM
You actually get ill? That's impressive somatic control you give sports there.

I don't know that I've ever seen a true superstar not caring while their team is losing. But at the same time, LeBron has played 1200 games, I don't expect it to ruin his day if his team loses a meaningless game.

You're right, it's not gonna ruin Lebron's day, he's an arrogant ***hat that thinks the world revolves around him... It's gonna ruin that 12 y/o die hard Lebron fan's day from Detroit that's been waiting 3 months for a chance to see him

I get physically ill about a lot of things Lebron... I need some Pepto every time I see his ugly mug

warfelg
12-27-2016, 09:49 AM
FWIW, since I live in Texas, I get only 6 chances to see the Warriors in person, and while it would suck to drive 6 hours to not see KD play, I'd much rather have that happen and win a title than see them play and not win.

Not that there is a direct line you can draw from one to the other.

Think of it this way ... when my wife was pregnant she went to one doctor every month, but when she went into labor he wasn't available so my kids were all delivered by other doctors. I take my car to a shop where I know the owner is a very careful and particular kind of mechanic, but my car isn't always worked on by that guy. If I pay huge money and fly across the country to see a Broadway show, I don't get to decide who is in the various roles ... in fact when Obama went to see Hamilton, Hamilton was played by the understudy because of scheduled rest ... no kidding. The NBA is a job to the players, and it's entertainment to us ... it should not be required that players justify why they are not working on any particular day.

How about this:

Call your boss and tell him you're not coming in. You're tired and need a "scheduled rest day".

Broadway actors....terrible comparison. They do 8 shows over 6 days, with rehearsals, vocal training, dance tranining when they aren't doing the show. Most for a 7:00 pm show are at the theater at 10:00 am and don't leave until 12:00 midnight.

Why I don't feel pity:

I'm a golf pro. Between work, teaching, playing with members, practice, and playing in events; I worked 298 days last year. If you do the math that's 5.7 work days per week on average, at 62 hours per week (including 1 100 hour work week). And I made 5% of what LeBron made.

Clint Olbrock
12-27-2016, 09:52 AM
At least for me, as I expressed above, the issue for me is when that stuff happens on the road. Like as a Sixer fan I only get so many chances to see guys like KD, Curry, LeBron....when I spend the money to go see those guys and they announce last minute that I won't be seeing them...I'm pissed. Pissed I took time off work, spent the money, traveled, ect.

Do that stuff to home fans. Warrior fans have 41 chances to see all these guys. If they take 5-7 rest games at home, not many fans are going to miss out on their only chance to see them.
This is pretty awful logic man.

The Cavs are from Cleveland... Their number 1 priority is.. No shock, the fans in Cleveland. They are who is going to make them money and keep them going. That is who you need to please. Forget some away fan crying because they can't see another teams star player(s).. Too bad, if you want to see them that bad, buy playoff tickets and go watch the Cavs, they for sure won't be resting then. Or buy tickets to Quicken Loans and travel up there.

You are a 76ers fan, going and watching YOUR team is what it should be about, that is who you root for and where your loyalty lies. Why should the Cavs, Warriors and anything other team have to appease you? You're not the one supporting their team/franchise or buying their team merch.

It makes no sense to cater to other teams fans, sorry not our job. If you don't like it, then become a fan of the Cavs or whoever, then you would maybe have a little bit more legit excuse to whine.

Some CLE fans can only go to one game because of the lottery style ticket sales I know they did when the BIG 3 first got together, IDK if they still do. But it makes more sense to ripoff your own fans at your own arena then some other teams fans who don't even care about you or your team? Sorry, flawed logic there.

Miltstar
12-27-2016, 09:55 AM
I'm a golf pro. Between work, teaching, playing with members, practice, and playing in events; I worked 298 days last year. If you do the math that's 5.7 work days per week on average, at 62 hours per week (including 1 100 hour work week). And I made 5% of what LeBron made.

I'm a chef at a golf course haha and the amount of time my pro says he's working when he's actually out on the course drinking beer and flirting with girls is impressive!! 5% of James salary is 1.5M, if you throw in endorsements you're talking in the 5M range... if you make that as a golf pro all the more power to ya sir! The Pro's around here get like 60-100g

Miltstar
12-27-2016, 10:03 AM
This is pretty awful logic man.

The Cavs are from Cleveland... Their number 1 priority is.. No shock, the fans in Cleveland. They are who is going to make them money and keep them going. That is who you need to please. Forget some away fan crying because they can't see another teams star player(s).. Too bad, if you want to see them that bad, buy playoff tickets and go watch the Cavs, they for sure won't be resting then. Or buy tickets to Quicken Loans and travel up there.

You are a 76ers fan, going and watching YOUR team is what it should be about, that is who you root for and where your loyalty lies. Why should the Cavs, Warriors and anything other team have to appease you? You're not the one supporting their team/franchise or buying their team merch.

It makes no sense to cater to other teams fans, sorry not our job. If you don't like it, then become a fan of the Cavs or whoever, then you would maybe have a little bit more legit excuse to whine.

Some CLE fans can only go to one game because of the lottery style ticket sales I know they did when the BIG 3 first got together, IDK if they still do. But it makes more sense to ripoff your own fans at your own arena then some other teams fans who don't even care about you or your team? Sorry, flawed logic there.

Lebron gives 0 **** about the fans sorry, he proved it with his decision to leave them. All he cares about are his numbers and his manufactured legacy... it's rather embarassing

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:08 AM
I'll say this:

Honestly; I rather be lied to and told "Hey, you won't be seeing Curry in his only Philly appearance this year because his ankles have been sore and it's precautionary." Rather than just "Oh we're giving him the night off."

Reason why - First one doesn't make me mad. It's like he needs it. To me the second one sounds like an insult of "You guys suck so much we're going to intentionally make it harder on ourselves and still be able to beat you."

I hate sounding "get off my lawn" about all of this, but it is something that Silver needs to address.

Because it's honestly why I gave up my season tickets. I was tired of paying for them, really wanting certain games, and then going and hearing a guy wasn't going to show up.

Then maybe you should just lie to yourself? I would be more annoyed with my Sixers season tickets with the team being extremely "cautious" with their talent to the point of actually telling their fans that injuries are not too bad and yet players missing entire seasons with them. Or with players being brought to the team, being told how they are going to mentor the young core and that they were brought in to improve the team only for them to be cut a week later.

If the reason you stopped with your season tickets to the Sixers is that stars from OTHER teams were not playing with a frequency you accept ... I think maybe you are not the Sixers fan I had assumed you were.

Another example ... a while back in Formula 1 teams were using team orders to decide the finishing order of races between their drivers, and the driver leading in the championship was told on the radio to let his teammate go by. People were outraged by "the fixing of the result" despite the fact that theoretically they were Formula 1 fans and it had been that way since the beginning. F1 made a new rule that teams were not allowed to give "team orders" anymore ... so now the team gets on the radio and says "let's go to strategy 7, that's strategy 7" and suddenly that driver has an "issue" and slows down just enough for their teammate to go by but not so slow as to let anyone else by and then their "issue" clears up. I just don't see how "strategy 7" is an improvement for the same result. It just makes me feel that they think I'm stupid.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:10 AM
You're right, it's not gonna ruin Lebron's day, he's an arrogant ***hat that thinks the world revolves around him... It's gonna ruin that 12 y/o die hard Lebron fan's day from Detroit that's been waiting 3 months for a chance to see him

I get physically ill about a lot of things Lebron... I need some Pepto every time I see his ugly mug

Maybe my using LeBron was a bad example for your sensitive system :) ... I believe the same about any and all "superstar" players. They want to win, but if their team loses a non-critical regular season game I don't expect them to lose sleep over it.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 10:11 AM
I'm a chef at a golf course haha and the amount of time my pro says he's working when he's actually out on the course drinking beer and flirting with girls is impressive!! 5% of James salary is 1.5M, if you throw in endorsements you're talking in the 5M range... if you make that as a golf pro all the more power to ya sir! The Pro's around here get like 60-100g

LOL I over estimated. Last year, lessons, winnings, and salary I walked out with $45k.

And I wish my rounds were like that. They were playing lessons where I played 9 holes with 4 people, turned around and played the back 9 with a new 4some.

We also had 220 golfing members, I was the only pro, and 2 part time shop hands, 4 outside kids.

My days off were literally family obligations or playing in a tournament.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 10:13 AM
Lebron gives 0 **** about the fans sorry, he proved it with his decision to leave them. All he cares about are his numbers and his manufactured legacy... it's rather embarassing

This.

That I hate about these arguments is the retort is always "They owe the fans nothing"

Actually they owe us everything. Without us they wouldn't be making money to play a ****ing game.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 10:18 AM
If the reason you stopped with your season tickets to the Sixers is that stars from OTHER teams were not playing with a frequency you accept ... I think maybe you are not the Sixers fan I had assumed you were.

I know live 3.5 hours from Philly. I kept them last year when I moved down here and started going to the marquee matchups and watching every other game on league pass. When teams started resting guys against us, I started to talk to the season ticket people about giving up my tickets because there was no value in me coming to see them play.

For me going to a game means a day off work (costing me about $150 out of my pocket), 3.5 hours of travel, a full tank of gas ($50), 3 meals ($30-40 at best, Beer and feed in the arena ($50-75), parking ($25).

Add that up and you're talking about a $500 day to drive up and find out that the players that were going to make the game interesting for me....isn't going to play.

You bet your *** I have the right to be pissed. Especially if they announced it right as I got there. At least if I were to know, I could save myself and sell the tickets online at face value or give them to friends that the travel expense is hopping on the Broad Street line with the Septa pass.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:19 AM
How about this:

Call your boss and tell him you're not coming in. You're tired and need a "scheduled rest day".

Broadway actors....terrible comparison. They do 8 shows over 6 days, with rehearsals, vocal training, dance tranining when they aren't doing the show. Most for a 7:00 pm show are at the theater at 10:00 am and don't leave until 12:00 midnight.

Why I don't feel pity:

I'm a golf pro. Between work, teaching, playing with members, practice, and playing in events; I worked 298 days last year. If you do the math that's 5.7 work days per week on average, at 62 hours per week (including 1 100 hour work week). And I made 5% of what LeBron made.

My company uses a PTO accrual model. If I give my boss 2 days notice he absolutely has no issue with me taking a day off for whatever reason. If it's less than 2 days he might grouse about it but as long as I don't screw him in a major way he's fine with it. I don't have to lie about being sick. In fact today when he gets in I'm going to tell him with no notice that I'm working a short day because I have family in town that I didn't know were in town when last we spoke and they are coming to visit.

Why is Broadway a terrible comparison? They have scheduled rest days and people deal with it without throwing fits.

If you are a golf pro your work isn't exactly unpleasant most of the time. I work from 6am to 5pm most days in an office and then after my kids are in bed I do some more work. And it extends into most weekends too. Professional athletes have to work all the time too ... they have to think about their job in what they allow themselves to do in their free time, in what they eat, in how much sleep they get ... they have to travel a positively insane amount. If you were in the top 1% of the top 1% of the top 1% of people on the planet who do what you do (like superstars in the NBA are) then you WOULD be getting paid like LeBron. And golfers miss tournaments all the time, because of injury, because of fatigue, and because of scheduling conflicts "I can't play the AAA open, I'm in LA shooting a car commercial that weekend".

For them it's work, for us it's entertainment. To give that much power over your self to entertainers seems nuts to me.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:22 AM
This is pretty awful logic man.

The Cavs are from Cleveland... Their number 1 priority is.. No shock, the fans in Cleveland. They are who is going to make them money and keep them going. That is who you need to please. Forget some away fan crying because they can't see another teams star player(s).. Too bad, if you want to see them that bad, buy playoff tickets and go watch the Cavs, they for sure won't be resting then. Or buy tickets to Quicken Loans and travel up there.

You are a 76ers fan, going and watching YOUR team is what it should be about, that is who you root for and where your loyalty lies. Why should the Cavs, Warriors and anything other team have to appease you? You're not the one supporting their team/franchise or buying their team merch.

It makes no sense to cater to other teams fans, sorry not our job. If you don't like it, then become a fan of the Cavs or whoever, then you would maybe have a little bit more legit excuse to whine.

Some CLE fans can only go to one game because of the lottery style ticket sales I know they did when the BIG 3 first got together, IDK if they still do. But it makes more sense to ripoff your own fans at your own arena then some other teams fans who don't even care about you or your team? Sorry, flawed logic there.

MOST of the Cavs are not from Cleveland. Their top priority as an organization is to make money ... and they know that appealing to the home fans is a big way to do that. But I don't believe it's because of some special devotion to the city whose name is on their jerseys.

But I agree about preferring rest be on road days. The road is harder than playing at home, and if your team is really good, my GOD the tickets get expensive quick.

KnicksorBust
12-27-2016, 10:24 AM
This is pretty awful logic man.

The Cavs are from Cleveland... Their number 1 priority is.. No shock, the fans in Cleveland. They are who is going to make them money and keep them going. That is who you need to please. Forget some away fan crying because they can't see another teams star player(s).. Too bad, if you want to see them that bad, buy playoff tickets and go watch the Cavs, they for sure won't be resting then. Or buy tickets to Quicken Loans and travel up there.

You are a 76ers fan, going and watching YOUR team is what it should be about, that is who you root for and where your loyalty lies. Why should the Cavs, Warriors and anything other team have to appease you? You're not the one supporting their team/franchise or buying their team merch.

It makes no sense to cater to other teams fans, sorry not our job. If you don't like it, then become a fan of the Cavs or whoever, then you would maybe have a little bit more legit excuse to whine.

Some CLE fans can only go to one game because of the lottery style ticket sales I know they did when the BIG 3 first got together, IDK if they still do. But it makes more sense to ripoff your own fans at your own arena then some other teams fans who don't even care about you or your team? Sorry, flawed logic there.

Lebron gives 0 **** about the fans sorry, he proved it with his decision to leave them. All he cares about are his numbers and his manufactured legacy... it's rather embarassing

Gtfo wth that nonsense.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-college-scholarships-akron-university-cavaliers-i-promise-081315

Lebron can start a foundation, dedicate his time, and his money to help kids go to college but because he skips a flight to play the Memphis Grizzlies he gets attacked. Please. Stop expecting pro athletes to be percect angels and just be happy when you have players like LeBron who at least can be looked at as role models for their hard work and desire to give back. I have a ton of respect for him as a player and a person.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:32 AM
You bet your *** I have the right to be pissed. Especially if they announced it right as I got there. At least if I were to know, I could save myself and sell the tickets online at face value or give them to friends that the travel expense is hopping on the Broad Street line with the Septa pass.

I believe you have the right to be pissed period. Nobody is saying you can't be pissed. I don't think it's healthy, but go forth and be angry. But I can say I think it's dumb :)

So, you would prefer the teams issue a release that X player will not be playing on the 26th, 44th, and 62nd game of the season at the start of the year? Well there are some issues with that. Your Sixers would HATE that ... THEY are the ones who want you to come to see the superstars ... the visiting team REALLY would prefer you stay home. If you are going to be mad, be mad at the home team for wanting it this way. Also, in the case of the Warriors resting players ... last year Kerr said the trainers looked at the numbers they were seeing from Curry in a practice and they said he was moving in a way that told them he needed rest because while he was pushing through it and wanted to play it was important that he rest for the next game ... how do they know when that will happen in advance? How do they know what pains players are feeling if they are not telling the trainers? The players may be lying to themselves. With the modern training and monitoring gear the trainers can tell the team a players is approaching the point where they will put themselves at risk for injury before the injury so the team rests them ... how can a fan of the game be against preventing injury? Do you also think Embiid should be playing 38 minutes a night so fans can see more of him? So the Sixers would have a better chance to win? Or should the team listen to the medical staff and trainers who are telling them that doing so will increase the chance of an injury? It's the same thing.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:34 AM
This.

That I hate about these arguments is the retort is always "They owe the fans nothing"

Actually they owe us everything. Without us they wouldn't be making money to play a ****ing game.

They don't OWE you anything. When I donate to the Veterans fund I don't feel the vets "owe" me anything. You are donating your cash to the entertainment form you prefer. It's your choice you follow them, not theirs.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 10:35 AM
I would love pre-announced rest dates!

Scoots
12-27-2016, 10:36 AM
I would love pre-announced rest dates!

And the home team would HAAAAAAAATE them :)

Also of course nobody knows when a player will need them, so scheduling them in advance may well result in a lot more of them.

warfelg
12-27-2016, 10:57 AM
So the resting is an issue and all admit it. So what about a compromise:

There's a line of salary or accomplishments to determine this. But a dressed DNP-CD is a certain level of a fine, non-dressed DNP-CD is another level.

Nothing substantial, but enough that it makes teams hesitate. Escalators for resting multiple players. Like when the Cavs went to Memphis, sitting the big three together would cost them $125,000.

Pay to the NBA where a portion can go to paying back a percent of the fans tickets and a potion can be divided among the players that played more minutes to accommodate the rested players.

So say LeBron and Kyrie rest, you paid $50 for a normally $40 ticket. You get refunded the difference.

McRae and Jefferson see massively increased minutes in those games? Based on how many extra minutes they played, they get a cut of a end of year "increased playing time bonus". Similar to the NFLs player performance bonus. The idea of that is a bonus to players that outplayed their contract.

If a guy is out extended games for an injury, there's no fine or bonus payout to fans or players.

Miltstar
12-27-2016, 11:20 AM
Gtfo wth that nonsense.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-college-scholarships-akron-university-cavaliers-i-promise-081315

Lebron can start a foundation, dedicate his time, and his money to help kids go to college but because he skips a flight to play the Memphis Grizzlies he gets attacked. Please. Stop expecting pro athletes to be percect angels and just be happy when you have players like LeBron who at least can be looked at as role models for their hard work and desire to give back. I have a ton of respect for him as a player and a person.

If my kids looked up to Lebron I would throw them out in the street when they hit 18 and tell em to hit me up if they ever lose the silver spoon mentality

I could care less what Lebron's PR people tell him to do to make him look better. You act like 41M matters to him

Scoots
12-27-2016, 11:29 AM
So the resting is an issue and all admit it. So what about a compromise:

There's a line of salary or accomplishments to determine this. But a dressed DNP-CD is a certain level of a fine, non-dressed DNP-CD is another level.

Nothing substantial, but enough that it makes teams hesitate. Escalators for resting multiple players. Like when the Cavs went to Memphis, sitting the big three together would cost them $125,000.

Pay to the NBA where a portion can go to paying back a percent of the fans tickets and a potion can be divided among the players that played more minutes to accommodate the rested players.

So say LeBron and Kyrie rest, you paid $50 for a normally $40 ticket. You get refunded the difference.

McRae and Jefferson see massively increased minutes in those games? Based on how many extra minutes they played, they get a cut of a end of year "increased playing time bonus". Similar to the NFLs player performance bonus. The idea of that is a bonus to players that outplayed their contract.

If a guy is out extended games for an injury, there's no fine or bonus payout to fans or players.

So a player who misses a single game with an injury? They get a fine?

warfelg
12-27-2016, 11:36 AM
So a player who misses a single game with an injury? They get a fine?

Well that's the part.

Take that LeBron example: they could just say he's got a twisted ankle.

So maybe there needs to be direct physical evidence.

Just kinda spitballing, it's not super expensive fines, allows the teams to rest players, but still helps the fans that feel cheated paying a premium for a ticket because of who their playing. It also rewards the players that have to makeup for the minutes of a player who's a healthy scratch.

Vee-Rex
12-27-2016, 12:50 PM
Warfelg,

You're comparing a sport with extreme physical demands to a regular job? NBA players are literally destroying/hurting their bodies. They're in incredible physical shape but the wear and tear breaks them down and that usually isn't noticed until they hit their 50's and 60's. During an NBA season it is absolutely crucial for them to micro-manage their body, and sometimes that includes rest days. You can't compare that to a scrawny guy with a desk job calling off because of 'rest'.

A regular season NBA game in December is just as meaningless as a week 17 NFL game in which the Steelers have clinched the division, clinched a bye, and clinched home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Would you then listen to Browns fans complain about the Steelers resting Big Ben (no injury issues or anything) if the last game was in Cleveland because they only get a chance to see him once a year?

Would you be okay with the NFL taking measures to force the Steelers to play Big Ben and risk injury? I bet you wouldn't.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 01:13 PM
Warfelg,

You're comparing a sport with extreme physical demands to a regular job? NBA players are literally destroying/hurting their bodies. They're in incredible physical shape but the wear and tear breaks them down and that usually isn't noticed until they hit their 50's and 60's. During an NBA season it is absolutely crucial for them to micro-manage their body, and sometimes that includes rest days. You can't compare that to a scrawny guy with a desk job calling off because of 'rest'.

A regular season NBA game in December is just as meaningless as a week 17 NFL game in which the Steelers have clinched the division, clinched a bye, and clinched home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Would you then listen to Browns fans complain about the Steelers resting Big Ben (no injury issues or anything) if the last game was in Cleveland because they only get a chance to see him once a year?

Would you be okay with the NFL taking measures to force the Steelers to play Big Ben and risk injury? I bet you wouldn't.

Good point Vee ... though I can't imagine anyone going to a game to see Ben "Maybe a rapist, certainly too stupid to wear a helmet while riding his motorcycle" Roethlisberger ... and I used to live near Pittsburgh and married a Steelers fan who honestly believes the Steelers last Super Bowl win was for her deceased father ... so it's not because I'm anti-Steelers ... let alone someone living in Cleveland doing so :)

Yanks All Day
12-27-2016, 03:37 PM
The onus is on the league to make the change. And it's not to demand players not sit out. It's for them to not play 4 games in 5 nights and have teams play back-to-back road games. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger than ever. Travel demands have increased, media availability demands are higher, and all star players have off-court commitments with sponsors, charities, etc. Add on Olympics and World Games and players lose out on most summers as well. Point being, the league has sped up on and off the court, rest time is minimal, and the NBA demands more out of their players than ever before.

It's very easy to sit at home and demand more of athletes while forgetting everything else they have to do. Especially considering no one really knows what that life's like, so they assume it's easy. It's a safe bet that everyone wants LeBron's paycheck, but no one wants his schedule. The NBA loves that he's arguably the most recognizable athlete on the planet and the revenue it generates. But they forget that stars are actually human too. Unfortunately, the fans are the ones that bear the brunt of the downside, which is that stars choose to sit out now.

This is also a very hypocritical subject for fans because it's speaking entirely in hypothetical. If the league demands players not rest and no one gets hurt in the process, it's a much easier argument to make. But I'd bet that if Kevin Durant said he was tired and wanted to sit, but had to go out and play against a team like Orlando and tears his calf and misses the year, there would be an UPROAR in Golden State. In the long run, fans understand that their team can't win without its stars, so I'd imagine that kid holding up the sign regarding LeBron would much rather go see LBJ at next June's championship parade than on December 26th in Detroit. But again, there is a simple fix out there: Cut the pre-season in half, start the regular season earlier, maybe eliminate some games, and take out back-to-backs and 4-in-5s.

Scoots
12-27-2016, 11:19 PM
Even with the scheduling improvements players will still need rest occasionally.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2016, 11:03 AM
Gtfo wth that nonsense.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-college-scholarships-akron-university-cavaliers-i-promise-081315

Lebron can start a foundation, dedicate his time, and his money to help kids go to college but because he skips a flight to play the Memphis Grizzlies he gets attacked. Please. Stop expecting pro athletes to be percect angels and just be happy when you have players like LeBron who at least can be looked at as role models for their hard work and desire to give back. I have a ton of respect for him as a player and a person.

If my kids looked up to Lebron I would throw them out in the street when they hit 18 and tell em to hit me up if they ever lose the silver spoon mentality

I could care less what Lebron's PR people tell him to do to make him look better. You act like 41M matters to him

If your kids looked up to LeBron they would learn hard work, determination, and how to play a team sport at the highest level. Not quite sure of the downside there but ok.

Vinylman
12-28-2016, 12:04 PM
The reason teams can rest players is because the regular season is more meaningless than ever due to the concentration of talent on fewer teams. That combined with the fact that these players contracts are absurd in the sense of the risk the teams take on vis a vis them being 100% guaranteed only makes it prudent to rest their "investments"

Other than following your own team their really isn't any point in watching an NBA regular season game.. in fact there is no point in watching anything before the conference finals... it is all fairly boring

warfelg
12-28-2016, 12:07 PM
I'm gonna stick by my fines for the team for rest and use the money to reimburse fans the difference between the average ticket price vs what they paid (only through official channels based on face value) and for player performance bonuses that played extra minutes for the sitting star.

JAZZNC
12-28-2016, 12:26 PM
I hate to sound old school, but I think it's a complete joke. Scheduled rest is for *******. These guys get paid an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to play 82 games a year plus the playoffs. Play the ****ing games unless you are actually injured. I'll just never understand the argument. Teams and players will continue to do it and there is no real way to stop it but I just think it comes down to the player feeling obligated to fulfill their duties as an employee. Some players seem to take it as a job and that they need to show up for work where others I guess feel entitled. I just think it sucks but nothing can be really done about it so...

Clint Olbrock
12-28-2016, 12:49 PM
I now live 3.5 hours from Philly. I kept them last year when I moved down here and started going to the marquee matchups and watching every other game on league pass. When teams started resting guys against us, I started to talk to the season ticket people about giving up my tickets because there was no value in me coming to see them play.

What I hate about these arguments is the retort is always "They owe the fans nothing". Actually they owe us everything. Without us they wouldn't be making money to play a ****ing game.
IDK how much of a "fan" of the 76ers you really are... You go to the games of a team you're a "fan" of to watch other teams, lol I would get $50 tickets to Cavs games for some NICE seats while LBJ was off at "college" playing super friends and I went to watch MY Cavs play, IDC who we were playing.. I just wanted to see my teams guys and hoped for a win.. THAT is what it's about.

To your next ridiculous point.. Do you purchase Cavs or Warriors or whatever star you want to see merch? I highly doubt it, if so VERY limited amount. Do you generate revenue for the Q(the home arena of the Cavs)? No, you don't because you won't make that trip, where you could see ALL the stars you wanted. So, no you really don't do anything for these stars brand or their team... Because you go to YOUR team's arena and want to be catered to by other organizations, which is flat out hilarious. Go to the Q, then you can complain about not seeing the stars(though you would see them).

warfelg
12-28-2016, 12:56 PM
IDK how much of a "fan" of the 76ers you really are... You go to the games of a team you're a "fan" of to watch other teams,

I'm a huge Sixers fan. I live in Richmond VA and am not going to go up 41 times a year. I usually kept the tickets for Knicks and Celtics for in division. I went to the Washington games, Cavs, Bucks, Lakers, Warriors. That all in all was about 15 games. That's all I could go to.

I still watched every single other Sixers game on TV.

So shove off with saying I'm not a Sixers Fan.

Clint Olbrock
12-28-2016, 01:07 PM
I'm a huge Sixers fan. I live in Richmond VA and am not going to go up 41 times a year. I usually kept the tickets for Knicks and Celtics for in division. I went to the Washington games, Cavs, Bucks, Lakers, Warriors. That all in all was about 15 games. That's all I could go to.

I still watched every single other Sixers game on TV.

So shove off with saying I'm not a Sixers Fan.

Shove off yourself if you think opposing teams have to come to Philly, Memphis or Detroit and cater to you guys because you have no stars or the stars you have aren't "super" stars.

Go to maybe, idk 7 Philly games? Put the money that you would spend on the other 7 to go to Cleveland so you can see LBJ or the BIG 3 or whatever you want to do to get your fix on seeing other teams stars.

hugepatsfan
12-28-2016, 01:08 PM
I think it's frustrating as a fan of the game but it's also smart for teams to do it. I think it's futile to try and regulate it. It just is what it is.

warfelg
12-28-2016, 01:14 PM
Shove off yourself if you think opposing teams have to come to Philly, Memphis or Detroit and cater to you guys because you have no stars or the stars you have aren't "super" stars.

Go to maybe, idk 7 Philly games? Put the money that you would spend on the other 7 to go to Cleveland so you can see LBJ or the BIG 3 or whatever you want to do to get your fix on seeing other teams stars.

Why should I travel to another city, give a team, franchise, and owner I don't like money, pay more for ticket, get harassed by the own fans when I can just watch them on TV?

No part of going to see them in Philly is to support my team. Be around fellow Sixer fans. Ensure the team o love gets my money.

Vinylman
12-28-2016, 01:25 PM
Why should I travel to another city, give a team, franchise, and owner I don't like money, pay more for ticket, get harassed by the own fans when I can just watch them on TV?

No part of going to see them in Philly is to support my team. Be around fellow Sixer fans. Ensure the team o love gets my money.

you are wasting your time ... you are arguing with a Cavs "fan" who joined the forum in July 2014... didn't something else happen around that time?

3 more years of Cavs "fans" and then we won't hear them for another 30-35 years as they slink back into oblivion post Lebron.

warfelg
12-28-2016, 01:32 PM
you are wasting your time ... you are arguing with a Cavs "fan" who joined the forum in July 2014... didn't something else happen around that time?

3 more years of Cavs "fans" and then we won't hear them for another 30-35 years as they slink back into oblivion post Lebron.

Yea I'll be done with it.

But come on. Don't go to every home game so I'm "not a fan". SMH. Guess he doesn't know how far Richmond is from philly.

Clint Olbrock
12-28-2016, 06:32 PM
Why should I travel to another city, give a team/franchise and owner I don't like money, pay more for ticket, get harassed by the own fans when I can just watch them on TV?

THIS whole thing right here is the ENTIRE reason the Cavs, Warriors and any other team has no reason to appease you or any other whiny fan of another team. You don't deserve it.

THANK YOU for proving my point! You can go ahead and just watch these stars on your TV then because you don't deserve to be catered to, I hope they continue to rest stars on the road.

Clint Olbrock
12-28-2016, 06:46 PM
you are wasting your time ... you are arguing with a Cavs "fan" who joined the forum in July 2014... didn't something else happen around that time?

3 more years of Cavs "fans" and then we won't hear them for another 30-35 years as they slink back into oblivion post Lebron.
AH, I really take enjoyment in proving people like you wrong.

*click on photos to enlarge*

https://s27.postimg.org/j1yskm2mn/0506152351.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j1yskm2mn/) October 15th, 2012.. What player is that, that I got an autograph from? Know him?

https://s30.postimg.org/evm4cy8lp/0506152351a.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/evm4cy8lp/) October 23rd, 2013.. Who are the 5 players I got autographs from? Know any of them?

https://s23.postimg.org/migv2hgef/0507150017.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/migv2hgef/) October 19th, 2010...

Anything else you would like to tell me about myself, since you know me so well? :facepalm:

Scoots
12-28-2016, 08:26 PM
The reason teams can rest players is because the regular season is more meaningless than ever due to the concentration of talent on fewer teams. That combined with the fact that these players contracts are absurd in the sense of the risk the teams take on vis a vis them being 100% guaranteed only makes it prudent to rest their "investments"

Other than following your own team their really isn't any point in watching an NBA regular season game.. in fact there is no point in watching anything before the conference finals... it is all fairly boring

Then why are you here and posting now?

Scoots
12-28-2016, 08:29 PM
I hate to sound old school, but I think it's a complete joke. Scheduled rest is for *******. These guys get paid an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to play 82 games a year plus the playoffs. Play the ****ing games unless you are actually injured. I'll just never understand the argument. Teams and players will continue to do it and there is no real way to stop it but I just think it comes down to the player feeling obligated to fulfill their duties as an employee. Some players seem to take it as a job and that they need to show up for work where others I guess feel entitled. I just think it sucks but nothing can be really done about it so...

So ... do you think ace pitchers should pitch every game in an MLB season? Or is rest okay for them? Why don't all these NBA wimps play 48 minutes a game? It was done back in the day, it's just that these players are all wimps!

Were you a Jazz fan for Stockton Malone? If so then your position makes a bit more sense, but they were total freaks so you can't expect everyone to be like them.

Vinylman
12-29-2016, 08:43 AM
Then why are you here and posting now?

what does posting on a sports forum have to do with watching the BORING NBA REGULAR SEASON?

Vinylman
12-29-2016, 08:45 AM
AH, I really take enjoyment in proving people like you wrong.

*click on photos to enlarge*

https://s27.postimg.org/j1yskm2mn/0506152351.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j1yskm2mn/) October 15th, 2012.. What player is that, that I got an autograph from? Know him?

https://s30.postimg.org/evm4cy8lp/0506152351a.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/evm4cy8lp/) October 23rd, 2013.. Who are the 5 players I got autographs from? Know any of them?

https://s23.postimg.org/migv2hgef/0507150017.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/migv2hgef/) October 19th, 2010...

Anything else you would like to tell me about myself, since you know me so well? :facepalm:

Oh the Irony

Merica... there is no hope

Clint Olbrock
12-29-2016, 10:34 AM
Oh the Irony

Merica... there is no hope

Yeah, probably best you don't give a real response after trying to call someone's bluff then getting proven wrong, emphatically.

October 19th 2010, December 20th 2011, October 15th 2012 and October 23rd 2013 are all dates that LBJ was down in Miami playing "college" with the super friends. Please explain how if I'm just a Cavs "fan" why I was going to Cavs games for years while LBJ was on a different team?

The autographs I got, since I made you look foolish and you know it are.. CJ Miles, Alonzo Gee, Tyler Zeller, Jarrett Jack, Dion Waiters and Sergey Karasev... None of those guys are stars, for sure not super stars. You most likely don't know who any of them are.

Something else did happen in July 2014, you're right.. Maybe the Cavs started talking about trading their #1 overall pick, they had just drafted... Ring any bells? Or are you too busy giving hot takes? A vast majority of my post's on here when I started were in the Wolves thread to talk about the Wiggins/Love trade because I didn't want to do it, now I don't mind it because we got a championship but that is here nor there.

Anyway, how could I expect a real response from you anyway? You make a foolish post and follow it up with an equally foolish post.

You were proven wrong, you lose, jog on :knockout:

Scoots
12-29-2016, 11:04 AM
what does posting on a sports forum have to do with watching the BORING NBA REGULAR SEASON?

Don't you do this for entertainment? If it's boring maybe you should step away? I decided that Formula 1 racing had become boring so I stopped watching and I stopped talking about it.

warfelg
12-29-2016, 11:26 AM
So ... do you think ace pitchers should pitch every game in an MLB season? Or is rest okay for them? Why don't all these NBA wimps play 48 minutes a game? It was done back in the day, it's just that these players are all wimps!

Were you a Jazz fan for Stockton Malone? If so then your position makes a bit more sense, but they were total freaks so you can't expect everyone to be like them.

I'll say from my POV the reason I'm a Sixers fan and a NBA fan is Allen Iverson. That guy refused to take a day off or even come out of the game at times. It was that grit and drive that I love.

Not saying modern stars don't have it, but back then you knew if the Sixers were in town that you would see AI. But right now if some of these top teams are in town; I'm not 100% sure I'm seeing their marquee player.

And what bothers me isn't that I'm not seeing the marquee player; it's that the owners and franchise already charged more for tickets because said player was going to be playing. So for a normal $200 ticket (face value of my season ticket seats) I was expected to pay $275 (face value from the Warriors game). But (and this didn't happen) let's say Klay and Curry sat. I'm still expected to pay that to see a (again last years team) lineup of Livingston-Barbosa-Barnes-Green-Bogut. Which I'm sorry, the premium of that ticket wasn't to see them. In terms of quality basketball I would be better off selling those at face value and going to the Wizards game. Cost less and see a Wall-Beal-Porter-Nene-Gortot lineup.

Clint Olbrock
12-29-2016, 12:28 PM
I'll say from my POV the reason I'm a Sixers fan and a NBA fan is Allen Iverson. That guy refused to take a day off or even come out of the game at times. It was that grit and drive that I love.


Sorry, I had to lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

One Nut Kruk
12-29-2016, 04:50 PM
Why? MLB and NHL have regular rest for players and it doesn't seem to be an issue. What makes the NBA special?


The point I was trying to make was that NHL players do get rest days and I don't hear this complaining when they do.

Well, you obviously don't follow hockey much because this basically never happens. Except maybe the last couple games of the season when a team has clinched a playoff spot.


I hate to sound old school, but I think it's a complete joke. Scheduled rest is for *******. These guys get paid an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to play 82 games a year plus the playoffs. Play the ****ing games unless you are actually injured. I'll just never understand the argument. Teams and players will continue to do it and there is no real way to stop it but I just think it comes down to the player feeling obligated to fulfill their duties as an employee. Some players seem to take it as a job and that they need to show up for work where others I guess feel entitled. I just think it sucks but nothing can be really done about it so...

I agree with you. I understand why they do it but I still think it's ridiculous. These elite athletes make millions to play a damn sport and they can't play every game because they may be a little tired? Give me a break. And yeah, I get it, it's saving their legs for the long run. Like somebody else said, limit their minutes in those games then. But some of those arrogant pricks would probably rather sit out so it doesn't affect their averages.

JAZZNC
12-29-2016, 08:56 PM
So ... do you think ace pitchers should pitch every game in an MLB season? Or is rest okay for them? Why don't all these NBA wimps play 48 minutes a game? It was done back in the day, it's just that these players are all wimps!

Were you a Jazz fan for Stockton Malone? If so then your position makes a bit more sense, but they were total freaks so you can't expect everyone to be like them.

The ace pitcher comparison is about as "apples to oranges" as it can get so that has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

And yes, I was a Jazz fan for the Stockton/Malone era. I don't believe that every player should play 48 minutes per game, that's why you have a bench. But I do feel players just taking games off for no other reason than they don't wanna play is simply ridiculous. If you aren't hurt come to work...its really that simple. You get paid to play games and 82 isn't an excessive amount. I don't see why it's too much to ask for these guys to show up and earn their absurd salaries if they are healthy??? Like I said I guess I'm old school but I just think if you are healthy you should play. If your body can't handle the rigors of playing a half an hour of basketball 82 times a year get a different ****ing job.

Scoots
12-29-2016, 11:53 PM
I'll say from my POV the reason I'm a Sixers fan and a NBA fan is Allen Iverson. That guy refused to take a day off or even come out of the game at times. It was that grit and drive that I love.

Not saying modern stars don't have it, but back then you knew if the Sixers were in town that you would see AI. But right now if some of these top teams are in town; I'm not 100% sure I'm seeing their marquee player.

And what bothers me isn't that I'm not seeing the marquee player; it's that the owners and franchise already charged more for tickets because said player was going to be playing. So for a normal $200 ticket (face value of my season ticket seats) I was expected to pay $275 (face value from the Warriors game). But (and this didn't happen) let's say Klay and Curry sat. I'm still expected to pay that to see a (again last years team) lineup of Livingston-Barbosa-Barnes-Green-Bogut. Which I'm sorry, the premium of that ticket wasn't to see them. In terms of quality basketball I would be better off selling those at face value and going to the Wizards game. Cost less and see a Wall-Beal-Porter-Nene-Gortot lineup.

Okay, if you are paying a premium then I understand the annoyance, but it's not the Warriors screwing you it's the Sixers for jacking up the price.

Scoots
12-29-2016, 11:59 PM
The ace pitcher comparison is about as "apples to oranges" as it can get so that has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

And yes, I was a Jazz fan for the Stockton/Malone era. I don't believe that every player should play 48 minutes per game, that's why you have a bench. But I do feel players just taking games off for no other reason than they don't wanna play is simply ridiculous. If you aren't hurt come to work...its really that simple. You get paid to play games and 82 isn't an excessive amount. I don't see why it's too much to ask for these guys to show up and earn their absurd salaries if they are healthy??? Like I said I guess I'm old school but I just think if you are healthy you should play. If your body can't handle the rigors of playing a half an hour of basketball 82 times a year get a different ****ing job.

The pitcher thing was intended to be hyperbole ... either you expect highly paid atheletes to not need rest or you accept that they do need rest.

There are 450 players in the NBA and the average number of players who play in 82 games was in the 40s 40 years ago and now it's in the 20s ... but clearly the VAST majority of players have not played all 82. It is by far the exception for any player to play 82, let alone big minute stars where the number drops even more.

Players now are pushing their bodies harder than ever before so fatigue is more of an issue now than ever before.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 12:03 AM
Well, you obviously don't follow hockey much because this basically never happens. Except maybe the last couple games of the season when a team has clinched a playoff spot.

Well, using the San Jose Sharks as an example ... their goalie averages a day off every 7 games. You know ... rest. In the NHL. Where it "never" happens.

Jamiecballer
12-30-2016, 01:23 AM
Sure but the goalie position is entirely separate from the vast majority of players who do not just as he said. That, and basically never happens is not the same as never happens

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

One Nut Kruk
12-30-2016, 03:14 AM
^ exactly.

PhillyFaninLA
12-30-2016, 06:32 AM
Sports Science is both helping and hurting the game.

Back in the day players worked out all the time, practiced a ton, played a ton, there bodies where used to playing and conditioned for the impact on the body. Injuries where less often and less severe.

Now players don't work out the same, practice the same, or play as much so there bodies can't handle the impact as much.

Personally I say practice any athlete hard from a young age, get them in the gym, play them a lot of minutes if they are good enough, and they will be healthier and there bodies will be prepared for the impact and there mind will be more prepared to fight through discomfort.

If we aren't going to revert back to pride and hard work than keep it how it is but expect people to annoyed when they leave the arena because they didn't get to see great healthy players.

PhillyFaninLA
12-30-2016, 06:36 AM
They have done countless studies and counting, on how to get a player through a regular season, and be as close to 100% healthy as possible for the playoffs. I know it's frustrating for the fans, but science wins..

I agree that science wins but we aren't talking about real science. We are talking about mathematical probability and not actual science.

Sports Science says based on stats and averages that players that work out, practice, play this amount of time, and have this type of build can handle x. History shows another story though.

Sports Science isn't really science because it takes probability into account more than biology and since the advent of sports science more players and more serious injuries have occured because it forces less practice, less working out, and less impact on the body. History and biology (a real science) show the body can adapt to what is put in front of it. When you force the body to do less, it can handle less.

Clint Olbrock
12-30-2016, 07:25 AM
Sports Science is both helping and hurting the game.

Back in the day players worked out all the time, practiced a ton, played a ton, there bodies where used to playing and conditioned for the impact on the body. Injuries where less often and less severe.

Now players don't work out the same, practice the same, or play as much so there bodies can't handle the impact as much.

Personally I say practice any athlete hard from a young age, get them in the gym, play them a lot of minutes if they are good enough, and they will be healthier and there bodies will be prepared for the impact and there mind will be more prepared to fight through discomfort.

If we aren't going to revert back to pride and hard work than keep it how it is but expect people to annoyed when they leave the arena because they didn't get to see great healthy players.

This is archaic thinking, lol

You don't make progress by going backwards..

You're saying go back 20+ years.. If you suggested that with any other market, people would look you in the face and laugh at you.

It's about studying, growing, understanding, developing, building on what you know and making it better.

Why does reverting back to old habits and disregarding what you know seem ideal? Because it pleases some cry baby fans? No thanks.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 08:35 AM
^ exactly.

True enough, however Goalies play in the NHL and have regular rest without people losing their minds about it which was my point.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 08:53 AM
Some interesting reading/viewing on the topic of rest, professionalism and maturity in the NBA.

https://twitter.com/TrueHoopTV/status/789458033004908548/video/1

http://scores.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17790282/the-nba-grueling-schedule-cause-loss

http://scores.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17600760/dnp-rest-research-science-scheduling-sit-nba

http://grantland.com/features/steve-kerr-problems-age-limit-nba/

I know there is a study out there on the physical toll the modern system of player development puts on players (essentially that they max out their bodies earlier and stay maxed out longer with no real break in the off-season all while playing a LOT more organized basketball than used to be played), but I can't seem to find it.

PhillyFaninLA
12-30-2016, 09:14 AM
This is archaic thinking, lol

You don't make progress by going backwards..

You're saying go back 20+ years.. If you suggested that with any other market, people would look you in the face and laugh at you.

It's about studying, growing, understanding, developing, building on what you know and making it better.

Why does reverting back to old habits and disregarding what you know seem ideal? Because it pleases some cry baby fans? No thanks.

First we aren't talking about another industry, secondly I'm making a comment on how the body responds to things, and lastly we aren't making progress when all of a sudden sports science becomes a huge deciding factor and players aren't as healthy. So you can believe its archaic if you want but they aren't doing what you are claiming, they are actually make the bodies less resilient, sure maybe people are recovering better than they have in the past and I will give you that rehab is better than ever, but I am making a point about avoiding the need in the first place by not not weakening the body and allowing people to properly condition like they did in the past.

I respect the point you are trying to make here but I think it is not accurate in this conversation.

PhillyFaninLA
12-30-2016, 09:16 AM
Some interesting reading/viewing on the topic of rest, professionalism and maturity in the NBA.

https://twitter.com/TrueHoopTV/status/789458033004908548/video/1

http://scores.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17790282/the-nba-grueling-schedule-cause-loss

http://scores.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17600760/dnp-rest-research-science-scheduling-sit-nba

http://grantland.com/features/steve-kerr-problems-age-limit-nba/

I know there is a study out there on the physical toll the modern system of player development puts on players (essentially that they max out their bodies earlier and stay maxed out longer with no real break in the off-season all while playing a LOT more organized basketball than used to be played), but I can't seem to find it.

If you show me a study, I want to see a legit source, like the harvard medical journal or some other legitimate medical/psychological source and not twitter, espn, and grantland (I didn't click on the links so they may reference something credible on this topic).

warfelg
12-30-2016, 09:58 AM
Okay, if you are paying a premium then I understand the annoyance, but it's not the Warriors screwing you it's the Sixers for jacking up the price.

Well it's a common league practice. Better teams and teams with big stars have higher ticket prices. So it's really a league wide thing.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 10:59 AM
Well it's a common league practice. Better teams and teams with big stars have higher ticket prices. So it's really a league wide thing.

I guess the Warriors are so expensive I didn't notice.

One Nut Kruk
12-30-2016, 12:06 PM
True enough, however Goalies play in the NHL and have regular rest without people losing their minds about it which was my point.

Fair enough. Although goalies are a whole different thing. You have 2...it's gonna be one or the other. And I've been to a game where I was hoping to see a certain goalie but he wasn't playing. I didn't lose my mind because that's to be expected. Plus, most people don't go to a hockey game to see a goalie, they go to see Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Patrick Kane, etc.

Like I said, I get why they do it. I just don't like it.

Clint Olbrock
12-30-2016, 12:21 PM
First we aren't talking about another industry, secondly I'm making a comment on how the body responds to things, and lastly we aren't making progress when all of a sudden sports science becomes a huge deciding factor and players aren't as healthy. So you can believe its archaic if you want but they aren't doing what you are claiming, they are actually make the bodies less resilient, sure maybe people are recovering better than they have in the past and I will give you that rehab is better than ever, but I am making a point about avoiding the need in the first place by not not weakening the body and allowing people to properly condition like they did in the past.

I respect the point you are trying to make here but I think it is not accurate in this conversation.

No, we're not but if you look around and apply your thought process/theory to anything else.. It's absurd, it's down right asinine.

In the medical industry we should go back to how things used to be? Where people were donating contaminated blood and people receiving that blood and getting infections and diseases from it. Because it's more convenient that way and we got a plethora of blood, right?

In the housing market, we should give anyone a loan who applies for one, not verify their income. Heck, even give them multiple loans at a time, that they can't afford. Because it makes realtors and bankers rich, right?

In the automotive industry we should just make cars without proper testing or protocols, right? Because it's all about that money and profit. Forget doing the crash test and safety test, get em out the door. Who cares if someone's car catches on fire while they're driving down the road, right?

Even look at technology, instead of advancing it we should all use land lines, still be using dial up computers, use maps instead of GPS, no one has a cell phone or if they do, they're massive. That makes sense to devolve as a society, right? Back into all these old things and old ways? Because it's easier that way.

The examples can go ON and ON and ON.. Each one sounding just as ridiculous as the last when your logic is applied to it.

Show me where players aren't as healthy, with numbers, with charts, graphs, studies. It's just you saying something, currently. These claims you are making are out there man, you whole point is based on nothing, currently to me, until you prove it.. Which I'm not sure you can.

You said in another post that sports science isn't science.. You go on to further say that it doesn't or barely uses biology.. Yet sports science studies anatomy, BIOmechanics, BIOchemistry and BIOkinetics. But because of "history" these are irrelevant?

I respectively don't think you know what you're talking about.

warfelg
12-30-2016, 12:21 PM
I guess the Warriors are so expensive I didn't notice.

Sixers, Knicks, Wizards, Hornets, Nets all did packages this year where you couldn't get Warriors, Cavs, Spurs, Clippers, or Rapters tickets unless you bought at least a 4 game pack too. And usually it was something like (I know for the Sixers):

A pack like Warriors, Nets, Pacers, Suns. You had to get 4 games at least 2 tickets to each game. Total price was $1150. Individual face value for those $100 Average seats for each game was like $140 for the Warriors, $80 for the Nets, $90 for the Pacers, $100 for the Suns. So basically they charged extra and then extra on top of that because you were getting seats to multiple games. Now parking was included.

But it's silly that no only do they make you pay more, but you have to have tickets to games you might not want to be at.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 02:07 PM
Fair enough. Although goalies are a whole different thing. You have 2...it's gonna be one or the other. And I've been to a game where I was hoping to see a certain goalie but he wasn't playing. I didn't lose my mind because that's to be expected. Plus, most people don't go to a hockey game to see a goalie, they go to see Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Patrick Kane, etc.

Like I said, I get why they do it. I just don't like it.

Yeah, the point is still that NHL players get rest and people understand, MLB players get rest and people understand, Stage actors get rest and people understand ... they may not like it but they don't say that they are weak or wusses for getting rest ... why does the NBA have to be different?

And while non-goalie NHL players don't rest games too often they do get games where they play far fewer shifts than normal, and it's not like you get to see a whole lot of your favorite players at a game anyhow with 20 minutes on ice considered heavy minutes for a forward/center and with much larger rosters.

So ... what can be done to get rid of the "issue" of rest:

1. Get fans to get over the old idea that fatigue is for *******.
2. Change the schedule to be more like NHL and only schedule back to back games on the road when the teams are right next to each other geographically. (They already try to do this, but there are some really awful road trips too) And have fewer road trips longer than 2 games overall.
3. Eliminate pre-season.
4. Increase the length of the schedule on the calendar.
5. Increase roster size and reduce minutes for star players even more, but by rule.
6. Shorten the schedule.
7. Shorten games.
8. Reduce practice time.
9. Reduce the maximum length of pre-NBA organized basketball seasons to reduce wear and tear on players.
10. Mandate rest for every player once every 15 games, and post those days at least a month in advance.
11. Mandate that all game tickets for every team be the same price (weighted by quality of the seat, but not by quality of the team/market/opponent) so people don't feel quite so screwed.

Of course the vast majority of those are straight non-starters ... except #1, 2, 3, and 4 ... and of those four #1 is most likely the way it's going to go.

One Nut Kruk
12-30-2016, 02:20 PM
I'm not sure if fatigue is for "*******". I think what people don't understand is why these guys make so much money and can't play through a little bit of fatigue. I'm always tired. I've got 2 young kids. I get up at 5am almost every day. But I also go to work every day. And make jack squat compared to these guys. Where as these guys are catered to like Kings and if they do have families, have no idea what it's really like to actually raise one like an average person. I think that's where the average person starts to use words like *****.

And I get it. They are professional athletes. They aren't the average person. But I still don't see why you can't play every game for what, 6-8 months of the year? And they're gonna get multiple months off after the season too.

Scoots
12-30-2016, 09:37 PM
I'm not sure if fatigue is for "*******". I think what people don't understand is why these guys make so much money and can't play through a little bit of fatigue. I'm always tired. I've got 2 young kids. I get up at 5am almost every day. But I also go to work every day. And make jack squat compared to these guys. Where as these guys are catered to like Kings and if they do have families, have no idea what it's really like to actually raise one like an average person. I think that's where the average person starts to use words like *****.

And I get it. They are professional athletes. They aren't the average person. But I still don't see why you can't play every game for what, 6-8 months of the year? And they're gonna get multiple months off after the season too.

They make huge money because of people who pay for TV and pay for merch and pay for game tickets. It's not the "fault" of the players. The people who are the top 50 in the world in ANY valued skill make a huge amount of money and a lot of them make a lot more than NBA players.

Why can't they play every game? They absolutely can play every game ... or at least try to. But injuries, which are not a fact of life in many jobs, will make them miss games. Likewise, if you are fatigued or not feeling well you can still do your job at a level that won't make much of a difference, while a player performing at 80% of his regular level appears as a drastic difference. If someone is fatigued to that level the only way to recover is to not play ... if you keep playing you don't get better. In the past the vast majority of the players were not playing at 100% after a couple weeks of the season ... but now if your opponent rests his players and as a result his players are playing at a higher level than your players if you don't likewise rest your players when they get fatigued. That may be the biggest factor ... once someone starts resting tired players everyone has to.

In addition fatigue makes people more susceptible to mistakes and injuries.

One Nut Kruk
12-31-2016, 11:35 AM
Like I said, I get why they do it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 11:36 AM
Scoots in this thread is like Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One - unstoppable.

mike_noodles
12-31-2016, 01:42 PM
If they need more rest, why not less practices and team/individual workouts? A game is equivalent to a high intensity 40 minute workout. Nba players are babied far more than any other sport.

One Nut Kruk
12-31-2016, 02:01 PM
If unstoppable is equivalent to stating the obvious and advocating millionaires being babied, then sure, Vader on.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 02:13 PM
If unstoppable is equivalent to stating the obvious and advocating millionaires being babied, then sure, Vader on.

Unless your body undergoes the rigorous demand of the NBA schedule and NBA lifestyle, I don't think your opinion on them being 'babied' matters at all.

warfelg
12-31-2016, 02:19 PM
Unless your body undergoes the rigorous demand of the NBA schedule and NBA lifestyle, I don't think your opinion on them being 'babied' matters at all.

Well it's not like their flying Southwest commercial and staying at a motel 6 with $35 a day stipends.


Most are in 5 star suites, flying private jets or chartered airlines (basically a whole plane of first class), and get $400 a day in stipend for meals.

That first one is what Major League Lacrosse players face. Along with playing a sport more physically demanding, practicing 5 days a week, plus gym, plus individual shooting drills, and a game.

One Nut Kruk
12-31-2016, 02:20 PM
Lol. Yeah so rigourous compared to the NHL.

I'm a hockey guy more so than basketball so I guess I'm used to guys taking a puck to the face and not missing a shift. Different mentality.

And since you guys have no idea what the rigourous demands are either, I guess your opinions on their fatigue don't mean jack ****.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 02:35 PM
Well it's not like their flying Southwest commercial and staying at a motel 6 with $35 a day stipends.


Most are in 5 star suites, flying private jets or chartered airlines (basically a whole plane of first class), and get $400 a day in stipend for meals.

That first one is what Major League Lacrosse players face. Along with playing a sport more physically demanding, practicing 5 days a week, plus gym, plus individual shooting drills, and a game.

And this shows the hypocrisy of the fans.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about Major League Lacrosse players and their schedules? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about hockey players resting? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when Shumpert takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when a non-superstar NBA player takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

People only care if it inconveniences their own entertainment.

Because if a superstar like LeBron decides to rest, THAT'S when everyone goes into a frenzy. I understand people want to see LeBron and not Shumpert (I'm as big of a fan as the next person) but when you don't care when one player does it yet have higher expectations on another, it's unfair.

Marc Gasol rested against Cleveland in the 1st night of the b2b, yet I didn't hear one peep from any fan-base about it, yet when LeBron does it people are in an uproar.

It's nothing but hypocrisy fueled by selfishness. Let the ***** rest if he want to. I don't care how rich he is, he's still human and whether or not you (general) or your grandma likes it is irrelevant.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 02:37 PM
Lol. Yeah so rigourous compared to the NHL.

I'm a hockey guy more so than basketball so I guess I'm used to guys taking a puck to the face and not missing a shift. Different mentality.

And since you guys have no idea what the rigourous demands are either, I guess your opinions on their fatigue don't mean jack ****.

I don't like having my entertainment inconvenienced as much as anyone but I won't ***** and lose sleep at night about it either.

One Nut Kruk
12-31-2016, 02:43 PM
I don't like having my entertainment inconvenienced as much as anyone but I won't ***** and lose sleep at night about it either.

I agree. I've already stated numerous times that I understand why they do it.

Clint Olbrock
12-31-2016, 03:33 PM
And this shows the hypocrisy of the fans.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about Major League Lacrosse players and their schedules? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about hockey players resting? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when Shumpert takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when a non-superstar NBA player takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

People only care if it inconveniences their own entertainment.

Because if a superstar like LeBron decides to rest, THAT'S when everyone goes into a frenzy. I understand people want to see LeBron and not Shumpert (I'm as big of a fan as the next person) but when you don't care when one player does it yet have higher expectations on another, it's unfair.

Marc Gasol rested against Cleveland in the 1st night of the b2b, yet I didn't hear one peep from any fan-base about it, yet when LeBron does it people are in an uproar.

It's nothing but hypocrisy fueled by selfishness. Let the ***** rest if he want to. I don't care how rich he is, he's still human and whether or not you (general) or your grandma likes it is irrelevant.

/end thread

mike_noodles
12-31-2016, 04:14 PM
People only care if it inconveniences their own entertainment.



People care because they've spent their hard earned money on that specific type of entertainment and they feel swindled, as they should. They didn't get what they had paid for, why is it only acceptable in these instances?

JAZZNC
12-31-2016, 04:21 PM
I'm sorry but some of you guys are cracking me up! You talk about the rigors of playing 30 ****ing minutes. Seriously say that out loud, 30 minutes!!!!! And it's not even 30 minutes straight. I'm sorry but I have no idea how you can say a healthy player can't be expected to do that 82 times. It's just laughable. If you are hurt or recovering fine, I completely get that. However, scheduled rest is just a joke. I don't care who it is from LeBron to Joe Ingles, suit up and play if you're healthy. But as with most "discussions" nobody is changing anybody's views so I'll quit now haha!

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 04:44 PM
People care because they've spent their hard earned money on that specific type of entertainment and they feel swindled, as they should. They didn't get what they had paid for, why is it only acceptable in these instances?

On the back of NBA tickets it says there are NO guarantees on player availability and team rosters. It's a small risk you take.

Again, all we heard was crickets when Marc Gasol rested. Dwyane Wade was on a season with 'scheduled rest days' just a few years ago for the Heat, and no one batted an eyelash. Why? Because it had nothing to do with principle. It had nothing to do with him being rich, or him being fatigued, or the NHL having a rougher schedule. It's all about LeBron and if LeBron does it then there's outrage from fans - and that's simply not fair.

If you can't see the hypocrisy with that I'm not sure what to say.

If your argument is, "It's LeBron and I wanted to see him so I'm salty because I paid money to see him though I acknowledge I'm being hypocritical since I don't apply the same standards to everyone behind my criticism of resting players" then there's nothing I can say other than too bad, I feel for you.

Clint Olbrock
12-31-2016, 04:51 PM
People care because they've spent their hard earned money on that specific type of entertainment and they feel swindled, as they should. They didn't get what they had paid for, why is it only acceptable in these instances?

If you go to Memphis, Philadelphia and Detriot to see Cleveland stars... That's foolish.

Clint Olbrock
12-31-2016, 04:56 PM
I'm sorry but some of you guys are cracking me up! You talk about the rigors of playing 30 ****ing minutes. Seriously say that out loud, 30 minutes!!!!! And it's not even 30 minutes straight. I'm sorry but I have no idea how you can say a healthy player can't be expected to do that 82 times. It's just laughable. If you are hurt or recovering fine, I completely get that. However, scheduled rest is just a joke. I don't care who it is from LeBron to Joe Ingles, suit up and play if you're healthy. But as with most "discussions" nobody is changing anybody's views so I'll quit now haha!

You're a Jazz fan though... The Jazz have a collective 0 titles, that's not a shot at you or the Jazz, it's just the facts.

So you have no idea what it takes to win a title, you don't have some championship formula.

If LeBron wants to rest during the regular season and he gets another title, then it's working.

The end goal is a title, for all 450 players in the NBA. Whatever it takes to achieve that.

warfelg
12-31-2016, 04:56 PM
And this shows the hypocrisy of the fans.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about Major League Lacrosse players and their schedules? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms about hockey players resting? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when Shumpert takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

Why isn't everyone up-in-arms when a non-superstar NBA player takes a rest day? Because no one truly cares.

People only care if it inconveniences their own entertainment.

Because if a superstar like LeBron decides to rest, THAT'S when everyone goes into a frenzy. I understand people want to see LeBron and not Shumpert (I'm as big of a fan as the next person) but when you don't care when one player does it yet have higher expectations on another, it's unfair.

Marc Gasol rested against Cleveland in the 1st night of the b2b, yet I didn't hear one peep from any fan-base about it, yet when LeBron does it people are in an uproar.

It's nothing but hypocrisy fueled by selfishness. Let the ***** rest if he want to. I don't care how rich he is, he's still human and whether or not you (general) or your grandma likes it is irrelevant.

I was more responding to your statement on the rigors of travel.

As a small tour golfer in my younger days I was crashing on couches when I would, Motels when I couldn't. I was eating Subway or McD's, driving my 95 Pontiac Grand Am over 500 miles to get to the course, playing 6 rounds for 6 hours a day, at the practice facilities another 5 hours.

When we hear of NBA players doing that....I'll feel bad for their "rigors of the road".

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 05:18 PM
I was more responding to your statement on the rigors of travel.

As a small tour golfer in my younger days I was crashing on couches when I would, Motels when I couldn't. I was eating Subway or McD's, driving my 95 Pontiac Grand Am over 500 miles to get to the course, playing 6 rounds for 6 hours a day, at the practice facilities another 5 hours.

When we hear of NBA players doing that....I'll feel bad for their "rigors of the road".

I hear what you're saying. I don't know how old you were but LeBron is 32 now. Regardless, think of it this way:

Think about someone like LeBron who has played nearly 50,000 minutes in his career (reg season and playoffs combined and is 32 years ol). Best player of the last decade, and the biggest obstacle (other than a fired up, overachieving Toronto team) in his path to reach the finals again is injury. Because of the correlation between fatigue and injury, it's probably a lot more crucial for his fatigue/rest to be micro-managed in basketball games than for yours in golf.

The travel in and of itself might not be as huge of a deal but when you combine it with all of the above factors it probably does matter.

Miltstar
12-31-2016, 05:23 PM
It's all about LeBron and if LeBron does it then there's outrage from fans - and that's simply not fair.

It's the smugness and arroganace in the way he handles his day to day his business, he's a spoiled child that holds his GM and the Commissioner hostage. They have to do things Lebrons way or they might upset his fragile ego. He points fingers as soon as there is adversity and he cries and stomps his feet at officials until he gets his way.

I hate everything he stands for, I imagine there are quite a few who feel the same way. People like me are sitting here waiting for the stars to align and for things to not work out for him so we can finally throw dirt on his grave and get a face of the league that I'd be proud to have as my children's role model.

warfelg
12-31-2016, 05:26 PM
I hear what you're saying. I don't know how old you were but LeBron is 32 now. Regardless, think of it this way:

Think about someone like LeBron who has played nearly 50,000 minutes in his career (reg season and playoffs combined and is 32 years ol). Best player of the last decade, and the biggest obstacle (other than a fired up, overachieving Toronto team) in his path to reach the finals again is injury. Because of the correlation between fatigue and injury, it's probably a lot more crucial for his fatigue/rest to be micro-managed in basketball games than for yours in golf.

The travel in and of itself might not be as huge of a deal but when you combine it with all of the above factors it probably does matter.

I did it two years ago at 30 years old.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2016, 05:28 PM
It's the way he goes about his business, he's a spoiled child that holds his GM and the Commissioner hostage. They have to do things Lebrons way or they might upset his fragile ego. He points fingers as soon as there is adversity and he cries and stomps his feet at officials until he gets his way.

I hate everything he stands for, I imagine there are quite a few who feel the same way. People like me are sitting here waiting for the stars to align and for things to not work out for him so we can finally throw dirt on his grave and get a face of the league that I'd be proud to have as my children's role model.

Can't disagree with the first paragraph.

I'm not a huge LeBron fan (though I slurp on his basketball greatness sometimes), but I think your hate for him is unhealthy, bro.

Scoots
01-01-2017, 11:19 AM
People care because they've spent their hard earned money on that specific type of entertainment and they feel swindled, as they should. They didn't get what they had paid for, why is it only acceptable in these instances?

When people buy MLB game tickets expecting to see Kershaw v Bumgarner but end up with Stripling v Suarez they accept it. When the President went to see Hamilton on Broadway the leading role was filled by the understudy and he didn't ***** about it.

There is no guarantee of who will perform for you on the ticket.

Just tell yourself when it says "rest" that what they mean is "injured" because most people don't have a problem with people missing time with an injury and they ARE equivalent.

ewing
01-01-2017, 11:21 AM
if they had any intestinal fortitude they'd shut up and play

Scoots
01-01-2017, 11:22 AM
I'm sorry but some of you guys are cracking me up! You talk about the rigors of playing 30 ****ing minutes. Seriously say that out loud, 30 minutes!!!!! And it's not even 30 minutes straight. I'm sorry but I have no idea how you can say a healthy player can't be expected to do that 82 times. It's just laughable. If you are hurt or recovering fine, I completely get that. However, scheduled rest is just a joke. I don't care who it is from LeBron to Joe Ingles, suit up and play if you're healthy. But as with most "discussions" nobody is changing anybody's views so I'll quit now haha!

So why don't NHL players play more than 20 minutes in a 60 minute game? Why don't NFL players play more than 1 game a week? Why has only 1 player played every minute in the NBA (And Wilt himself admitted he would coast for half the game)? It's because it's NOT easy to play all out every minute on the floor.

If "recovery" is okay then just use that in your head for "rest" since they are the exact same thing. The reason they rest is to let their bodies recover from the fatigue of playing a physically demanding game.

Scoots
01-01-2017, 11:32 AM
I was more responding to your statement on the rigors of travel.

As a small tour golfer in my younger days I was crashing on couches when I would, Motels when I couldn't. I was eating Subway or McD's, driving my 95 Pontiac Grand Am over 500 miles to get to the course, playing 6 rounds for 6 hours a day, at the practice facilities another 5 hours.

When we hear of NBA players doing that....I'll feel bad for their "rigors of the road".

I used to travel a lot for work, sleep where I could and work 36 hours straight on a regular basis. But I wasn't performing at my job at the top 1% of the top 1% in the world while doing it. If you have to be at close to 100% all the time or you lose it's a lot harder to deal with that stuff. There have been multiple studies on business men who travel regularly for work and how their performance drops off significantly when they are travelling less than NBA players travel, including those who travel first class.

My nephew has spent the last decade on the road with his band and he KNOWS that they come out and play a bad gig every once in a while because of the rigors of the road. When he was younger he could party after a gig, sleep on the floor somewhere and still be good to go the next night ... but it wears you down pretty fast. In the case of NBA superstar veterans they've been doing it year after year for 15-20 years in some cases.

Scoots
01-01-2017, 11:35 AM
I did it two years ago at 30 years old.

And you did it for 9 months straight? You traveled 65000 miles? And you did it the year before that and they year before that and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that ... ?

warfelg
01-01-2017, 11:50 AM
And you did it for 9 months straight? You traveled 65000 miles? And you did it the year before that and they year before that and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that ... ?

4 different tours over the course of 4 years playing about 45 weeks a year.

warfelg
01-01-2017, 11:56 AM
I used to travel a lot for work, sleep where I could and work 36 hours straight on a regular basis. But I wasn't performing at my job at the top 1% of the top 1% in the world while doing it. If you have to be at close to 100% all the time or you lose it's a lot harder to deal with that stuff. There have been multiple studies on business men who travel regularly for work and how their performance drops off significantly when they are travelling less than NBA players travel, including those who travel first class.

My nephew has spent the last decade on the road with his band and he KNOWS that they come out and play a bad gig every once in a while because of the rigors of the road. When he was younger he could party after a gig, sleep on the floor somewhere and still be good to go the next night ... but it wears you down pretty fast. In the case of NBA superstar veterans they've been doing it year after year for 15-20 years in some cases.

And how many NBA players are sleeping on floors somewhere, either crammed in a car, van, or at best a bus with everyone (sound and lighting)?

All I'm saying is, yes there are things that drain you with travel, but it's not like these guys are roughing it. They are travelling even better than first class.

JAZZNC
01-01-2017, 12:00 PM
You're a Jazz fan though... The Jazz have a collective 0 titles, that's not a shot at you or the Jazz, it's just the facts.

So you have no idea what it takes to win a title, you don't have some championship formula.

If LeBron wants to rest during the regular season and he gets another title, then it's working.

The end goal is a title, for all 450 players in the NBA. Whatever it takes to achieve that.

So what was the Cleveland championship model? Be lucky enough that a generational talent is from your ****** city, have him leave because your terrible franchise couldn't put talent a round him and then have the league gift you 3 #1 picks in the NBA draft to stockpile talent and assets for when he decided to come back? OK, that's an easy formula to follow that has nothing to do with anything but hard work and determination haha!

I seriously doubt that taking a few games off is going to make much of a difference for a player of LeBrons stature. He willed himself to that level of play in last year's Finals and a couple games off in December would have literally nothing to do with it positive or negative.

Clint Olbrock
01-01-2017, 01:17 PM
So what was the Cleveland championship model? Be lucky enough that a generational talent is from your ****** city, have him leave because your terrible franchise couldn't put talent a round him and then have the league gift you 3 #1 picks in the NBA draft to stockpile talent and assets for when he decided to come back? OK, that's an easy formula to follow that has nothing to do with anything but hard work and determination haha!

I seriously doubt that taking a few games off is going to make much of a difference for a player of LeBrons stature. He willed himself to that level of play in last year's Finals and a couple games off in December would have literally nothing to do with it positive or negative.

Oh, you're one of those tinfoil hat types... Got ya. Until the Jazz win a title I'll go ahead and follow the recipe put fourth mostly by Pop who has 5 titles in the past 18 years... And been copied by the many other squads who have won titles in that 18 year window too..

Vs whatever it is the Jazz and any other garbage to mediocre team is doing. You may think rest doesn't matter, which is fine, you have no idea lol you are entrenched in watching trash basketball the last couple seasons, mediocre teams prior to that, failed teams before that. It breeds your mindset.

The NBA is 100% about being FRESH at the right time, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

One Nut Kruk
01-01-2017, 01:31 PM
You make some good points but it is a little ridiculous to basically say that because you've watched your favourite team have success (with one of the best players of all time) , that somehow gives you more credibility on knowing how a championship team is constructed.

Scoots
01-01-2017, 02:16 PM
4 different tours over the course of 4 years playing about 45 weeks a year.

Mostly weekends?

Scoots
01-01-2017, 02:17 PM
And how many NBA players are sleeping on floors somewhere, either crammed in a car, van, or at best a bus with everyone (sound and lighting)?

All I'm saying is, yes there are things that drain you with travel, but it's not like these guys are roughing it. They are travelling even better than first class.

It still sucks and is exhausting traveling a lot.

One Nut Kruk
01-01-2017, 02:20 PM
And they are compensated quite handsomely for it. Poor guys.

warfelg
01-01-2017, 02:36 PM
Mostly weekends?

My typical schedule:

Monday - Travel Day
Tuesday - AM Workout, AM range time, Putting, PM 18 Hole Practice round, PM Range time, Short game
Wednesday - AM Workout, AM Range, AM 18 hole Practice round, PM Range, PM Putting, Short game
Thursday - Yoga, Range, Round 1, Range, Jog
Friday - Yoga, Range, Round 2, Range Jog
If I missed the cut, I would repeat Tuesday and Wednesday at another local course If I made the cut Thursday and Friday were repeated.

Clint Olbrock
01-01-2017, 02:39 PM
You make some good points but it is a little ridiculous to basically say that because you've watched your favourite team have success (with one of the best players of all time) , that somehow gives you more credibility on knowing how a championship team is constructed.

It has nothing to do with watching it, it has to do with just knowing that is what championship contending teams have been doing(in the NBA) for awhile now. It's about being aware that is the practice of teams now.

Even bottom feeder teams do it to "tank" or save their pick from certain trade restrictions/protections and what have you. Contending teams do it earlier and all throughout the season, where crappy teams will do it if their expectations weren't met or they need to be at X spot in the standings or whatever.

This dude is literally unaware of it, so he doesn't understand it. But what experience does he have to build from, to make his narrow mindset more broad? None. The only way he can expand his vision/mindset/outlook is to intentionally go out of his way/his comfort zone/what he "knows" to be true... If he doesn't do that(and it really seems like he isn't going to), then he will just continue to be ignorant to the topic.

One Nut Kruk
01-01-2017, 03:00 PM
It has nothing to do with watching it, it has to do with just knowing that is what championship contending teams have been doing(in the NBA) for awhile now. It's about being aware that is the practice of teams now.

Even bottom feeder teams do it to "tank" or save their pick from certain trade restrictions/protections and what have you. Contending teams do it earlier and all throughout the season, where crappy teams will do it if their expectations weren't met or they need to be at X spot in the standings or whatever.

This dude is literally unaware of it, so he doesn't understand it. But what experience does he have to build from, to make his narrow mindset more broad? None. The only way he can expand his vision/mindset/outlook is to intentionally go out of his way/his comfort zone/what he "knows" to be true... If he doesn't do that(and it really seems like he isn't going to), then he will just continue to be ignorant to the topic.

I gotcha. And if I was a coach, I'd probably do it too to an extent (not sure I'd sit out my top 3 studs at the same time but whatever). Fortunately for the top teams in the league, the competitive balance of the league isn't exactly great so they can afford to concede a few games (and if they win with the B squad, bonus). It's just kind of a disservice to the fans imo, that's all.