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View Full Version : Motiejunas refuses physical after Rockets match offer sheet, what should they do?



mightybosstone
12-06-2016, 02:26 PM
So, I realize that in terms of the scope of the NBA season, a story like Donatas Motiejunas' restricted free agency is probably pretty insignificant. And if this were a normal RFA situation, I would keep this in the Rockets forum, but this has been anything but a normal RFA situation.

After turning down the Rockets qualifying offer and missing the first quarter of the season, DMo finally signed an offer sheet (the most team friendly contract I've ever seen) with the Nets over the weekend. Unsurprisingly, the Rockets matched yesterday, and DMo was supposed to report to his physical this morning. Everything coming from him and his agent in the last week indicated that the guy would be fine coming back to Houston if it came to that.

Well, guess what? According to Woj, Houston media and every other NBA source, the guy is throwing a tantrum and refusing to come to the physical. He's making it pretty clear that he's not going to play for Houston, and the language from his agent (BJ Armstrong—who has handled this whole thing horribly) indicates that they're putting the ball in the Rockets court.

So this whole thing is really setting a weird precedent for restricted free agency. How should the Rockets handle this? On one hand, do you really want to mess with the team chemistry by forcing this immature brat to play for your team when he clearly doesn't want to? On the other, you can't really let him off the hook when he's still a somewhat valuable asset under contract, can you?

How would you guys want your team to handle it? And if they do end up just letting him go to the Nets, what kind of precedent does this set for RFA moving forward?

mightybosstone
12-06-2016, 02:33 PM
The poll was being weird, but there was a fifth option I wasn't able to add which is that they could let him play in Europe but make it very clear that if wants to play in the NBA that he's going to be a RFA with Houston whenever he returns. They also could just let him return to RFA, which is another feasible option.

And for the record, I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Rockets just let him go to the Nets. It would set a horrible precedent for RFA not just for Houston, but for the entire league. I think they should work out some kind of a deal with the Nets to get value in return for the guy. And if they can't get decent value, maybe you consider returning him to RFA.

TrueFan420
12-06-2016, 02:36 PM
Thing is Nets don't have anything to offer.
Best you could expect is a 2nd which wouldn't be value but kind of allow for the organization to save a little face and say they didn't give in and let him leave for nothing. Then at the same time I'd almost want to see them say take the physical or leave the league. Tough situation and interested in seeing how it plays out.

IndyRealist
12-06-2016, 03:20 PM
Take the physical. If he wanted out he should have taken the qualifying offer and played out one year. There is a negotiated CBA for a reason, so sh** like this doesn't happen. Never should have let this drag out so long, now his role in Houston will be minimal bc they don't want to mess up what they have going. He'll get traded by the deadline.

If he is technically a signed NBA player, FIBA won't touch him and Houston won't be paying him, so he has zero leverage.

5ass
12-06-2016, 03:38 PM
When was the last time the Rockets gave him a physical evaluation?

Hawkeye15
12-06-2016, 03:43 PM
Force him to play, or let him sit in purgatory. You can't set the precedent and let him walk to another team, or have him force a trade while under contractual control in RFA.

Htownballa1622
12-06-2016, 03:46 PM
Rumor has it, the Jizz have a potential bigger offer lined up but I see no incentive for Rockets to let him be a RFA again.

All I know is, B.J. Armstrong is an idiot. His comment this week about Green and now this leads me to believe he's a terrible agent.

As for DMo, I know he's just feeling kinda screwed based on restricted free agency but he should've just taken the qualifying offer and become unrestricted next year.

Im ready for him to go away. Marginal player coming off back surgery wasting too much of each other's time.

dhopisthename
12-06-2016, 03:56 PM
wow he signed a 4 year deal for 37 million. thats an awesome deal if he has anything left. I don't get why he signed for so cheap and not expect houston to sign. is there a reason he doesn't want to back to houston?

PhillyFaninLA
12-06-2016, 04:03 PM
I want nothing to do with a guy throwing a tantrum like this. You aren't better than the league or the rules in the CBA.

I don't want a guy that throws fits like this....be a man, play, increase your value and either be traded or leave and they get nothing.

I wouldn't want a guy doing this in the locker room with me.

Vinylman
12-06-2016, 06:16 PM
it isn't a 4 year deal... there are all sorts of date driven hurdles including that they can release him around the trade deadline for only a fraction of the contract...

the contract might have been a scam to get around the RFA rules wherein the Nets sign him ... then release him ... then sign him again.

TheMightyHumph
12-06-2016, 06:35 PM
Rumor has it, the Jizz have a potential bigger offer lined up but I see no incentive for Rockets to let him be a RFA again.

All I know is, B.J. Armstrong is an idiot. His comment this week about Green and now this leads me to believe he's a terrible agent.

As for DMo, I know he's just feeling kinda screwed based on restricted free agency but he should've just taken the qualifying offer and become unrestricted next year.

Im ready for him to go away. Marginal player coming off back surgery wasting too much of each other's time.

If he plays for Rockets, Donatas can't be traded this season (because of the date he signed the offer sheet), and can't be traded without his permission for a year.

Scoots
12-06-2016, 11:19 PM
I think it's never a good idea to try to force a player to play if he doesn't want to play for you. The real failure here is he should have made it perfectly clear he was NOT going to play for the Rockets again to them before they matched the offer. If he did and they matched anyway then this is the Rockets doing and not DMo's. I don't know what options he had before he signed the offer ... would he be a UFA next year if he didn't sign any offer sheets or would he still be a Rockets RFA? If he never reports to the Rockets they won't pay him and will exercise the option to cut him ... doesn't seem like much of a difference. Signing someone elses offer sheet was the only chance he had to play this year for someone other than the Rockets and it seems like the Rockets just took that away, probably because Morey hates to lose an asset and maybe out of spite..

europagnpilgrim
12-06-2016, 11:43 PM
DMo is clearly playing himself out of the league

its comical to me how players who are average to borderline decent feel they have that much clout to report or not report to a certain team when they feel lowballed or did wrong, he needs to man up or take his ball and go home

IndyRealist
12-07-2016, 12:03 AM
I think it's never a good idea to try to force a player to play if he doesn't want to play for you. The real failure here is he should have made it perfectly clear he was NOT going to play for the Rockets again to them before they matched the offer. If he did and they matched anyway then this is the Rockets doing and not DMo's. I don't know what options he had before he signed the offer ... would he be a UFA next year if he didn't sign any offer sheets or would he still be a Rockets RFA? If he never reports to the Rockets they won't pay him and will exercise the option to cut him ... doesn't seem like much of a difference. Signing someone elses offer sheet was the only chance he had to play this year for someone other than the Rockets and it seems like the Rockets just took that away, probably because Morey hates to lose an asset and maybe out of spite..

If he does not play basketball as a professional (i.e. doesn't get paid to play ball) for a calendar year, he becomes an UFA. He could have played on the qualifying offer for a year, gotten paid, and have the same result.

I don't know the details of the process, but I assume he had to sign the Nets offer sheet for it to be valid. So he's signed a contract, which the Rockets had the right to match, which they did. So he's a Rocket employee as far as I know, who is failing to report to his team.

mightybosstone
12-07-2016, 12:50 AM
I think it's never a good idea to try to force a player to play if he doesn't want to play for you. The real failure here is he should have made it perfectly clear he was NOT going to play for the Rockets again to them before they matched the offer. If he did and they matched anyway then this is the Rockets doing and not DMo's.
So, a couple of things here. First, based on everything he has said in the media recently, he made it sound pretty clear that he would fine coming back to Houston and that he really just wanted this contract stuff taken care of. It doesn't sound like there was any animosity toward the team or that this was a possibility until this morning, which is why this whole thing is such a surprise.

However, even if he DID make it clear that he didn't want to play in Houston, is he really in a position to do anything about it? He just came off an injury-riddled season where he played like a fringe rotational player, and his one good season seems more like an anomaly at this point than the norm. I don't see where he's in any position to bargain or has any leverage whatsoever.


I don't know what options he had before he signed the offer ... would he be a UFA next year if he didn't sign any offer sheets or would he still be a Rockets RFA?
He could have just signed the qualifying offer, played one season and proved his value and then gotten a better deal on the open market next season. If his agent was any good at his job, that's what he should have advised DMo to do. But the longer he waited, the smaller the role on this team was always going to be and the less leverage he was always going to have. And as the previous poster said, he could have sat out the season and made no money, but where's the incentive in that? He would make no money and only hurt his value further.


If he never reports to the Rockets they won't pay him and will exercise the option to cut him ... doesn't seem like much of a difference. Signing someone elses offer sheet was the only chance he had to play this year for someone other than the Rockets and it seems like the Rockets just took that away, probably because Morey hates to lose an asset and maybe out of spite..
Why would any GM let an asset go for nothing? It doesn't make any sense. RFA is set up like this for a reason. If a player doesn't want to play for that team long-term, he can sign the qualifying offer for one season and go wherever he wants the following offseason. DMo had that option and turned it down. As a RFA, you don't get to determine where you play basketball, and both DMo and his agent should have known better before they started this whole process. If you know it's going to rain and you don't bring an umbrella, that's on you.

Morey and the Rockets have done nothing wrong in this process. DMo was a free agent, came to the Rockets front office and asked for a certain amount. Morey was unwilling to pay that amount and they were unable to reach an agreement. He tells DMo "you're more than willing to seek that amount on the open market, and we'll match it if we can." And 29 other teams failed to make DMo an offer this summer that he was happy with. He sits out 20 games, finally signs an extremely team friendly offer that any GM in the league probably matches and then gets upset when the Rockets inevitably match it. The guy is either totally naive or is getting some horrible advice from his agent and the people around him. But Houston is definitely not in the wrong here.

nastynice
12-07-2016, 01:56 AM
Wtf? I hope he gets traded to a dumpster fire team. That's ****ed up. I don't like the rox, but I sure hope they give it to him bad

kobe4thewinbang
12-07-2016, 03:22 AM
No offense, but what's Motiejunas' problem? This is how restricted free agency works. Eric Gordon wanted to be with the Phoenix Suns a few seasons ago, but someone matched it. Or maybe I'm confusing that. Either way, his then-current team wanted to keep him. Same with Enes Kanter trying to join Portland I think, but OKC matched it.

It would set a horrible precedent, but it could easily become another Royce White situation.

You have a player that for whatever reason doesn't want to play with the Rockets anymore. I think they're more attractive than since the Dwight era. So, they have a player they don't like anymore at this point as a professional, and they must like him enough as a player since they matched it but why? Injury concerns, I'dda let him go the purgatory Nets.

What's going on in Brooklyn? Why even stir the pot by signing an offer sheet?

kobe4thewinbang
12-07-2016, 03:27 AM
it isn't a 4 year deal... there are all sorts of date driven hurdles including that they can release him around the trade deadline for only a fraction of the contract...

the contract might have been a scam to get around the RFA rules wherein the Nets sign him ... then release him ... then sign him again.Wouldn't surprise me. Nets are shady as hell, even with Prokhorov gone.

TheMightyHumph
12-07-2016, 04:04 AM
Wouldn't surprise me. Nets are shady as hell, even with Prokhorov gone.

Shady? What the hell did the Nets do?

And Proky still owns the team.

NYKalltheway
12-07-2016, 06:55 AM
Lol, finally someone tried to put an end to this madness. Hopefully this leads to a rule that no one can pronounce that future generations will be grateful for.

mike_noodles
12-07-2016, 07:45 AM
What are the Rockets options under the cba? I don't think they can trade him for 90 days now. They could waive him, that doesn't mean he goes to the Nets for sure. The NBA could void his contract and suspend him indefinitely. You don't want to play by our rules, see ya.

Scoots
12-07-2016, 11:46 AM
So, a couple of things here. First, based on everything he has said in the media recently, he made it sound pretty clear that he would fine coming back to Houston and that he really just wanted this contract stuff taken care of. It doesn't sound like there was any animosity toward the team or that this was a possibility until this morning, which is why this whole thing is such a surprise.

However, even if he DID make it clear that he didn't want to play in Houston, is he really in a position to do anything about it? He just came off an injury-riddled season where he played like a fringe rotational player, and his one good season seems more like an anomaly at this point than the norm. I don't see where he's in any position to bargain or has any leverage whatsoever.


He could have just signed the qualifying offer, played one season and proved his value and then gotten a better deal on the open market next season. If his agent was any good at his job, that's what he should have advised DMo to do. But the longer he waited, the smaller the role on this team was always going to be and the less leverage he was always going to have. And as the previous poster said, he could have sat out the season and made no money, but where's the incentive in that? He would make no money and only hurt his value further.


Why would any GM let an asset go for nothing? It doesn't make any sense. RFA is set up like this for a reason. If a player doesn't want to play for that team long-term, he can sign the qualifying offer for one season and go wherever he wants the following offseason. DMo had that option and turned it down. As a RFA, you don't get to determine where you play basketball, and both DMo and his agent should have known better before they started this whole process. If you know it's going to rain and you don't bring an umbrella, that's on you.

Morey and the Rockets have done nothing wrong in this process. DMo was a free agent, came to the Rockets front office and asked for a certain amount. Morey was unwilling to pay that amount and they were unable to reach an agreement. He tells DMo "you're more than willing to seek that amount on the open market, and we'll match it if we can." And 29 other teams failed to make DMo an offer this summer that he was happy with. He sits out 20 games, finally signs an extremely team friendly offer that any GM in the league probably matches and then gets upset when the Rockets inevitably match it. The guy is either totally naive or is getting some horrible advice from his agent and the people around him. But Houston is definitely not in the wrong here.

So ... if he absolutely didn't want to play for the Rockets his options were to not sign a deal and not play for a year or tell the Rockets he absolutely wouldn't play for them and sign a deal for another team that is essentially a 1 year deal for another team and if the Rockets match he doesn't report and becomes a UFA next year anyhow most likely.

If DMo absolutely would not play for the Rockets what were his options to play this year? He didn't really have one short of what he did.

MiMic
12-07-2016, 11:49 AM
Let's not ignore the fact that Houston decided to only match for 4 and 31 million. They didn't have to match all the bonuses. The difference between the offer he signed and what Houston matched is 6 million. I think that was exactly what he was talking to about players rights. He stated before he doesn't mind playing for them again. I'm thinking Rockets GM is slowly earning a reputation for screwing the mid tier players and DMo isn't the first one.

MiMic
12-07-2016, 11:50 AM
So ... if he absolutely didn't want to play for the Rockets his options were to not sign a deal and not play for a year or tell the Rockets he absolutely wouldn't play for them and sign a deal for another team that is essentially a 1 year deal for another team and if the Rockets match he doesn't report and becomes a UFA next year anyhow most likely.

If DMo absolutely would not play for the Rockets what were his options to play this year? He didn't really have one short of what he did.

He could easily sign with top team for the vet minimum... But it would get matched.

Scoots
12-07-2016, 12:16 PM
He could easily sign with top team for the vet minimum... But it would get matched.

Right ... so if he wants to play and not for Houston what are his options? He has to convince the Rockets to not match or convince them to trade him. The trade failed and Morey played hardball with DMo from then.

I understand the rules that got us here ... I think Morey is kind of being a dick about it though. Unfortunately the Nets have nothing to offer to Morey even if they wanted to :)

warfelg
12-07-2016, 12:17 PM
Let's not ignore the fact that Houston decided to only match for 4 and 31 million. They didn't have to match all the bonuses. The difference between the offer he signed and what Houston matched is 6 million. I think that was exactly what he was talking to about players rights. He stated before he doesn't mind playing for them again. I'm thinking Rockets GM is slowly earning a reputation for screwing the mid tier players and DMo isn't the first one.

Well then that's on him for signing a deal that if it gets matched he loses $6mil. I would fire that agent. Heck I would fire that agent for saying not to sign the QO in the first place.

A guy with back issues should just play the QO, prove health, then strike big the next year.

MiMic
12-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Well then that's on him for signing a deal that if it gets matched he loses $6mil. I would fire that agent. Heck I would fire that agent for saying not to sign the QO in the first place.

A guy with back issues should just play the QO, prove health, then strike big the next year.

It's on the agent, and BJ should get fired. But some blame should be placed on the Rockets GM as well. Couple years back he had another similar issues on trying to take advantage of these loop holes. I'm surprised new CBA didn't put a rule where the team had to match the complete offer.

warfelg
12-07-2016, 01:41 PM
It's on the agent, and BJ should get fired. But some blame should be placed on the Rockets GM as well. Couple years back he had another similar issues on trying to take advantage of these loop holes. I'm surprised new CBA didn't put a rule where the team had to match the complete offer.

He used the PPP. So what. It's something every team has the chance to do but doesn't. They don't because the cap jump on the final years is astronomical.

Want to put the blame on a GM? Put it on Marks for making a contract where the player loses money if the team holding his right matches.

Morey would have been stupid not to match.

albertajaysfan
12-07-2016, 02:28 PM
So, a couple of things here. First, based on everything he has said in the media recently, he made it sound pretty clear that he would fine coming back to Houston and that he really just wanted this contract stuff taken care of. It doesn't sound like there was any animosity toward the team or that this was a possibility until this morning, which is why this whole thing is such a surprise.

However, even if he DID make it clear that he didn't want to play in Houston, is he really in a position to do anything about it? He just came off an injury-riddled season where he played like a fringe rotational player, and his one good season seems more like an anomaly at this point than the norm. I don't see where he's in any position to bargain or has any leverage whatsoever.


He could have just signed the qualifying offer, played one season and proved his value and then gotten a better deal on the open market next season. If his agent was any good at his job, that's what he should have advised DMo to do. But the longer he waited, the smaller the role on this team was always going to be and the less leverage he was always going to have. And as the previous poster said, he could have sat out the season and made no money, but where's the incentive in that? He would make no money and only hurt his value further.


Why would any GM let an asset go for nothing? It doesn't make any sense. RFA is set up like this for a reason. If a player doesn't want to play for that team long-term, he can sign the qualifying offer for one season and go wherever he wants the following offseason. DMo had that option and turned it down. As a RFA, you don't get to determine where you play basketball, and both DMo and his agent should have known better before they started this whole process. If you know it's going to rain and you don't bring an umbrella, that's on you.

Morey and the Rockets have done nothing wrong in this process. DMo was a free agent, came to the Rockets front office and asked for a certain amount. Morey was unwilling to pay that amount and they were unable to reach an agreement. He tells DMo "you're more than willing to seek that amount on the open market, and we'll match it if we can." And 29 other teams failed to make DMo an offer this summer that he was happy with. He sits out 20 games, finally signs an extremely team friendly offer that any GM in the league probably matches and then gets upset when the Rockets inevitably match it. The guy is either totally naive or is getting some horrible advice from his agent and the people around him. But Houston is definitely not in the wrong here.

First off I would like to say thank you for bringing this to the main forum because it is a weird and unusual RFA scenario.

I totally agree with you that DMo handled this terribly considering the circumstances. He should have taken the QO as a show me deal (or negotiated some other kind of 1 yr deal with Houston). Him not taking it makes me think one of two things, either his rep is giving him horrible advice or he isn't actually very healthy and he knows it. It could of course also be some combination of the two.

Also as you mentioned, wth has Armstrong even talking about in reference to Draymond Green. Talk about doublespeak, although he also took it into total nonsense territory.

Vinylman
12-07-2016, 02:38 PM
Again people ... very little of the deal was guaranteed until after this year... go read the structure

ewing
12-07-2016, 02:42 PM
So, I realize that in terms of the scope of the NBA season, a story like Donatas Motiejunas' restricted free agency is probably pretty insignificant. And if this were a normal RFA situation, I would keep this in the Rockets forum, but this has been anything but a normal RFA situation.

After turning down the Rockets qualifying offer and missing the first quarter of the season, DMo finally signed an offer sheet (the most team friendly contract I've ever seen) with the Nets over the weekend. Unsurprisingly, the Rockets matched yesterday, and DMo was supposed to report to his physical this morning. Everything coming from him and his agent in the last week indicated that the guy would be fine coming back to Houston if it came to that.

Well, guess what? According to Woj, Houston media and every other NBA source, the guy is throwing a tantrum and refusing to come to the physical. He's making it pretty clear that he's not going to play for Houston, and the language from his agent (BJ Armstrong—who has handled this whole thing horribly) indicates that they're putting the ball in the Rockets court.

So this whole thing is really setting a weird precedent for restricted free agency. How should the Rockets handle this? On one hand, do you really want to mess with the team chemistry by forcing this immature brat to play for your team when he clearly doesn't want to? On the other, you can't really let him off the hook when he's still a somewhat valuable asset under contract, can you?

How would you guys want your team to handle it? And if they do end up just letting him go to the Nets, what kind of precedent does this set for RFA moving forward?


Pardon boss, but i really don't understand the situation. could you shed some light? Do we think he is actually healthy? Why wont he play for Houston? How did he get an offer sheet this late? I was surprised when the Nets had signed him to an offer sheet and didn't really get what was going on. I will say when he actually played i thought he had some game

ewing
12-07-2016, 02:50 PM
Force him to play, or let him sit in purgatory. You can't set the precedent and let him walk to another team, or have him force a trade while under contractual control in RFA.


Seriously he isn't on the KG or LeBron level where you can manipulate the league to set up the playing situation you want!

Ariza's Better
12-07-2016, 03:51 PM
Right ... so if he wants to play and not for Houston what are his options? He has to convince the Rockets to not match or convince them to trade him. The trade failed and Morey played hardball with DMo from then.

I understand the rules that got us here ... I think Morey is kind of being a dick about it though. Unfortunately the Nets have nothing to offer to Morey even if they wanted to :)
How is offering a contract at his market value playing hard ball? There was not one team bursting down his door to sign the guy. I get people hate Morey and will look to bag him any chance they get. But in no world is Morey being a dick at the moment.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-07-2016, 09:16 PM
Just give him to the Nets.

Rockets gain nothing by just fining him anyway.

Saddletramp
12-07-2016, 09:59 PM
Just give him to the Nets.

Rockets gain nothing by just fining him anyway.

They gain less by letting him go. Unless you count losing leverage and setting bad precendent for Houston to RFAs for years to come. Frankly put, if Morey let him walk now, he'd be fired in a heartbeat. Let the Nets trade something over (oh wait, they have nothing).

BJ Armstrong doesn't know what he's doing, plain and simple. You're only worth what someone is willing to pay you and per the rules, that extra $6 million doesn't count towards the offer sheet the Rockets have to match.


If I were Montiejunas, I'd likely fire BJ and either sign the deal or just ask Morey to give me $3 million for the rest of the year and let me go after. Doubt Morey bites on that, though.

Clint Olbrock
12-07-2016, 10:09 PM
IDK why everyone is hating on Motiejunas...

The Rockets traded him to the Pistons and the Pistons thought his back was sketchy so they voided the trade and he went back to Houston.

The summer comes and the Rockets extend the QO, Motiejunas thinks he is worth more so tries to workout a different deal with them.. Season starts and Rockets tell him to sign by November 22nd(so he would've been eligible to be traded this season) and when he doesn't they cut off communication.

He goes and gets an offer sheet from the Nets and they said his back checked out. The Rockets obviously matched and said we need to get a physical from you to make this legit and Motiejunas lost $6 million and is probably still pissed they traded him and wouldn't give him more than the QO so he said forget you guys I'm not reporting for my physical.

The Rockets can now either take their first refusal off the table and make him a RFA again where he can go try to get another offer sheet(from any team but the Nets) or they can wait until March 1st at which point the only team he will be able to sign with for the 2016-17 season will be the Rockets which obviously wouldn't happen at that juncture.

Then come the summer of 2017 the Rockets hold the option to extend ANOTHER qualifying offer making him a RFA all over again.

But I don't bash the dude for wanting what he thinks he's worth or for not really feeling the most warm and fuzzy feelings from the Rockets who have screwed him a few times.

Admittedly if I was a Rockets fan I probably wouldn't be happy with the guy but I'm not so I have the ability to see both sides of the situation.

Chronz
12-07-2016, 10:34 PM
If i were dmo id get a richer contract and hope the rox match so i can be a cancer.

brandt
12-09-2016, 03:18 AM
If i were dmo id get a richer contract and hope the rox match so i can be a cancer.
That sounds like a troll statement to me. First off, no one is going to offer a scrub like him anything better. And now that the Rockets matched, the ball is in their court not his. Plus, if it WAS possible for him to sign a richer contract, the GM isn't stupid enough to match. Especially after what he is putting them through now.

sep11ie
12-09-2016, 10:26 AM
If i were dmo id get a richer contract and hope the rox match so i can be a cancer.

Sweet idea! They should have been trying for a big contract all along!

warfelg
12-09-2016, 10:33 AM
Again his agent is a dumb ***.

What kind of agent advises his player to sign a team friendly deal that could lose the player money when the team holding his rights matches.

BJ Armstrong has a few clients he's screwed over with bad deals.

At this point its up to Motiejunas to fire BJ, get a new agent, and sit down with Houston and get past it. Maybe make a deal to play out this year then get cut or something like that.

IndyRealist
12-09-2016, 10:57 AM
Again his agent is a dumb ***.

What kind of agent advises his player to sign a team friendly deal that could lose the player money when the team holding his rights matches.

BJ Armstrong has a few clients he's screwed over with bad deals.

At this point its up to Motiejunas to fire BJ, get a new agent, and sit down with Houston and get past it. Maybe make a deal to play out this year then get cut or something like that.
They'd be on the hook for the balance of the $31M. It's more likely that he agrees to come to the team and play, and they agree to trade him within the year.

Htownballa1622
12-09-2016, 12:16 PM
https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/807251619696046080

I can't for the life of me remember how tf to put a tweet here. nvm thanks EDU!

807251619696046080

Clint Olbrock
12-09-2016, 12:34 PM
The new deal is structured better for the Rockets, at least the two sides came to terms, good for them.

IndyRealist
12-09-2016, 12:41 PM
I hope he fired BJ Armstrong before signing, so he doesn't get any of the money.

mightybosstone
12-09-2016, 12:55 PM
I love that after all this, DMo essentially signs what was originally offered by Morey in the first place, which was a 1-year, $8 million deal. Just so everyone is on the same page here, this is essentially how this goes down:

Summer negotiations

Morey: We'll offer you 1 year, $8 million.

DMo/BJ: Hell no! We think we can get more on the open market!

Morey: All right. We'll be waiting.

20 games into the season

DMo/BJ: All right, here's this offer that's not significantly better than your original offer from Brooklyn. Ha! We did slightly better than the offer you suggested!

Morey: OK. We'll match, but we're taking out all of the specific incentives Brooklyn put in since it wasn't mandatory for us to match those.

BJ: Whoops! Man I'm bad at my job.

DMo: Fine! I refuse to report to my physical until a new deal gets done!

Morey: OK, OK, OK.... (while snickering)... I'll throw those incentives back in, but we get to trade you if we need to in three months and we now get three team options for the next three years that will kick in during the offseason.

DMo/BJ: (Essentially looking at the contract Morey originally offered, but arguably even more team friendly for the Rockets) Awesome! Let's do it!

This whole thing is just comical. Motiejunas seriously needs to fire Armstrong. But at least it worked out for Morey and the Rockets in the end, so I'm happy.

Saddletramp
12-09-2016, 01:20 PM
BJ Armstrong is an idiot.
Morey is a genius.

Htownballa1622
12-09-2016, 01:36 PM
807251998928240640
807252194806419456
807252417167454208
807252846068563969
807253026406891520
807253452971765760

IndyRealist
12-09-2016, 03:13 PM
This is such a team friendly contract it's absurd. He's trade bait.

TheMightyHumph
12-09-2016, 06:42 PM
This is such a team friendly contract it's absurd. He's trade bait.

Not this season.

Scoots
12-10-2016, 02:29 PM
How is offering a contract at his market value playing hard ball? There was not one team bursting down his door to sign the guy. I get people hate Morey and will look to bag him any chance they get. But in no world is Morey being a dick at the moment.

Hard ball is when you tell a GM you absolutely will not play for him and when the GM fails to trade you for any assets he matches an offer from another team.

I now wonder if he's going to tank his season to get out of the remaining years? Or is he going to ball out and make the contract bad for him.

TheMightyHumph
12-10-2016, 03:20 PM
BJ Armstrong is an idiot.
Morey is a genius.

Looks like Armstrong did okay.

IndyRealist
12-10-2016, 03:27 PM
Not this season.

He can be traded in the offseason and immediately cut, because the rest of his deal are team options. That's nuts for a guy that's a starter.

IndyRealist
12-10-2016, 03:28 PM
Looks like Armstrong did okay.

He basically got 1yr guaranteed for a guy with a major injury. That's great for the team, horrible for the player.

TheMightyHumph
12-10-2016, 05:37 PM
He basically got 1yr guaranteed for a guy with a major injury. That's great for the team, horrible for the player.

Was someone offering better?

Nets did Donatas and Armstrong a big favor with that offer sheet. It was a very player friendly move. Hopefully it will be remembered.

And I believe if Donatas is cut by Jan. 10th, he only gets $5 mil.

Htownballa1622
12-10-2016, 07:12 PM
Rumor is that he failed his physical. Not sure how accurate. If so, ughhh. This won't ever end!

Scoots
12-10-2016, 11:18 PM
Rumor is that he failed his physical. Not sure how accurate. If so, ughhh. This won't ever end!

So can the un-match the deal or are they stuck paying him to not play now?

Htownballa1622
12-10-2016, 11:27 PM
So can the un-match the deal or are they stuck paying him to not play now?

I think they can void the deal of he doesn't pass physical.

Not sure what the deal is. Seems like more drama to come. Tune in next time on the most lame story of the nba season.

TheMightyHumph
12-11-2016, 02:24 AM
I think they can void the deal of he doesn't pass physical.

Not sure what the deal is. Seems like more drama to come. Tune in next time on the most lame story of the nba season.

If he fails the physical, Nets' offer stands.

IndyRealist
12-11-2016, 10:09 AM
If he fails the physical, Nets' offer stands.

I mean, the Nets can make a new offer, but the offer they made has been voided already.

warfelg
12-11-2016, 10:42 AM
At this point I imagine he pulls a Chris Bosh and goes to NBA doctors to get cleared.

Clint Olbrock
12-11-2016, 10:48 AM
I mean, the Nets can make a new offer, but the offer they made has been voided already.

You are correct their offer is voided but they can not acquire him in any way until December 9th, 2017.

Scoots
12-11-2016, 11:24 AM
So ... the question is ... is there any way for him to be free of the Rockets today? Or do the Rockets have to pay him? Because if he's still an RFA and the Nets deal is voided and the Rockets don't have to pay him AND he can't get another deal from the Nets then the Rockets are REALLY screwing him over.

If the Rockets rescind their hold on him and he becomes a UFA that may be exactly what he wants, and would certainly give him the most chance to play this year and for his back situation to become clear.

warfelg
12-11-2016, 11:56 AM
So ... the question is ... is there any way for him to be free of the Rockets today? Or do the Rockets have to pay him? Because if he's still an RFA and the Nets deal is voided and the Rockets don't have to pay him AND he can't get another deal from the Nets then the Rockets are REALLY screwing him over.

If the Rockets rescind their hold on him and he becomes a UFA that may be exactly what he wants, and would certainly give him the most chance to play this year and for his back situation to become clear.

Well like I said, I think his best option is to go to the NBA doctors check him out, and if they do he should have himself and the NBPA file against the Rockets and Morey

FWIW I think Morey has done everything fine so far:
-Matched what he had to from the Nets
-Monti refuses to take physical
-Morey offers everything from the Nets offer
-Monti signs
-Doctors fail the physical.

Now who knows if Morey had something to do with that, but his best option is the Chris Bosh. Ask the NBA doctors if Rockets doctors got something wrong.

sep11ie
12-11-2016, 12:13 PM
What everyone is failing to understand here is that for some reason the Rockets are super high on Monte. They aren't trying to screw him, they want him but they want to be protected.

Scoots
12-11-2016, 01:08 PM
What everyone is failing to understand here is that for some reason the Rockets are super high on Monte. They aren't trying to screw him, they want him but they want to be protected.

If DMo wants out the issue remains ... he has no way out other than begging Morey for his freedom.

TheMightyHumph
12-11-2016, 03:56 PM
I mean, the Nets can make a new offer, but the offer they made has been voided already.

I don't believe that is correct.

Clint Olbrock
12-11-2016, 04:42 PM
I don't believe that is correct.

He wasn't but neither were you.

The Nets offer sheet was voided in order for this new deal to be agreed to.

Therefore the Nets offer wouldn't stand, like you said. But he can't just agree to a new deal with the Nets, like he said because they can not sign or trade for him until December 9th, 2017.

IndyRealist
12-11-2016, 04:48 PM
I don't believe that is correct.

Per this thread, the Rockets matched and DM refused to take the physical because the Rockets did not match the incentives they were not required to. So they scrapped the matched offer and negotiated a new contract with Houston. The contract he has is not the contract the nets offered.

IndyRealist
12-11-2016, 04:53 PM
He wasn't but neither were you.

The Nets offer sheet was voided in order for this new deal to be agreed to.

Therefore the Nets offer wouldn't stand, like you said. But he can't just agree to a new deal with the Nets, like he said because they can not sign or trade for him until December 9th, 2017.
1. They can trade him in the summer, bc he is no longer on a matched offer. They have to wait 3 months not 12.
2. If Houston voids his contract bc he failed the physical, everything I said stands

Clint Olbrock
12-11-2016, 05:07 PM
1. They can trade him in the summer, bc he is no longer on a matched offer. They have to wait 3 months not 12.
2. If Houston voids his contract bc he failed the physical, everything I said stands
https://twitter.com/AlbertRandom1/status/807618298263146496

"For those asking: Nets can’t trade for Donatas Motiejunas after season. They’re restricted from acquiring him for one year (until 12/9/17)."

They can trade him to anyone except the Nets in the summer, if the deal goes through but not everything you said stands.. He can't just go get another offer from the Nets if this deal falls apart, the Nets are 100% out of the picture 'til next December no matter if it's via trade or signing.

FURTHER READING: http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=381

"If the first refusal exercise notice is withdrawn, Brooklyn’s offer sheet is invalidated and Motiejunas returns to restricted free agency, Brooklyn can’t sign or acquire him for one year."

Scoots
12-11-2016, 08:02 PM
So ... does anybody see any way, short of Houston renouncing their rights on him, that he gets free of Houston? Nobody will trade for him, and the Rockets can't trade him for most of the season even if he does sign. If he doesn't report to the Rockets they still own him. If he does report and they don't play him he doesn't get to play elsewhere.

This makes it obvious that RFA is kind of broken.

IndyRealist
12-11-2016, 08:48 PM
So ... does anybody see any way, short of Houston renouncing their rights on him, that he gets free of Houston? Nobody will trade for him, and the Rockets can't trade him for most of the season even if he does sign. If he doesn't report to the Rockets they still own him. If he does report and they don't play him he doesn't get to play elsewhere.

This makes it obvious that RFA is kind of broken.

Should have taken the qualifying offer, been free in a year. The problem is that agents push for as large a contract as soon as possible because they don't want their cash cow getting injured before they get paid, regardless of whether it's best for the player or not. If more players thought of it as a 5yr rookie contract instead of 4, there would be massive changes to the system when teams couldn't control their players' contracts.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 12:39 AM
Should have taken the qualifying offer, been free in a year. The problem is that agents push for as large a contract as soon as possible because they don't want their cash cow getting injured before they get paid, regardless of whether it's best for the player or not. If more players thought of it as a 5yr rookie contract instead of 4, there would be massive changes to the system when teams couldn't control their players' contracts.

So ... if DMo was in an abusive situation and didn't sign the offer because he just couldn't bring himself to play there another year he has NO WAY to be free as he becomes an RFA. If he signs the QO then doesn't show up to play he becomes an RFA anyhow.

Seriously it seems broken that DMo had no option to not play for the Rockets if they didn't want to let him go ... including sitting out a year.

astrosmaniac
12-12-2016, 05:51 AM
So ... if DMo was in an abusive situation and didn't sign the offer because he just couldn't bring himself to play there another year he has NO WAY to be free as he becomes an RFA. If he signs the QO then doesn't show up to play he becomes an RFA anyhow.

Seriously it seems broken that DMo had no option to not play for the Rockets if they didn't want to let him go ... including sitting out a year.

but he's not in an abusive situation. He knew he was going to be a RFA and houston was likely to match. He didn't have a problem playing in houston, he just wanted to try and cash in on a bigger, multi-year contract while he could (be in houston or elsewhere) in case his health issues ended up having more serious long term impacts. He has said the entire time publicly he would be fine playing in Houston. The whole "we have our rights" thing from Armstrong and skipping the physical were negotiation tactics to try and get the incentives that weren't initially matched into the contract. And they got theose in, but they had to give up some guaranteed money in year two to get it.

Let's recap, shall we?


-The rockets traded him (which would have been a benefit to him) and he other team voided the trade cause he failed the physical.
-Then they gave him a QO cause they didnt want to lose a valuable player for nothing (like all nba teams do).
-He elected to test the market in RFA but couldnt find a taker cause of health issues until in late november/early december despite the rockets offering him a multi year contract (ironically at about the same annual value he ended up getting) way back in the summer.
-When he signed an offer sheet, the rockets matched (like 85% of nba teams do when the player isnt getting ridiculously overpaid) and then negotiated a new deal with him to restructure the incentives so that he will likely get the extra 4 mil in return for the team options in july.

And now the whole thing this weekend wasn't even that big a deal. He didn't fail another physical. D-Mo showed up to sign and take the physical. Something was wrong on the Rockets end with paperwork stuff so it got put on hold for a few days. big whoop.

astrosmaniac
12-12-2016, 05:52 AM
So ... if DMo was in an abusive situation and didn't sign the offer because he just couldn't bring himself to play there another year he has NO WAY to be free as he becomes an RFA. If he signs the QO then doesn't show up to play he becomes an RFA anyhow.

Seriously it seems broken that DMo had no option to not play for the Rockets if they didn't want to let him go ... including sitting out a year.
and about the bold specifically...well, that's something the NBAPA agreed to in the CBA, they only have themselves to blame.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 08:22 AM
and about the bold specifically...well, that's something the NBAPA agreed to in the CBA, they only have themselves to blame.

Unfortunately for DMo that wasn't up to him.

I don't know what DMo wants ... I don't know that he's just looking for more money. I don't know that he's happy to play for the Rockets. I am just talking about his lack of options to get away from the Rockets ... even sitting out a year doesn't get him free from the Rockets. That's what I think is broken ... if he absolutely doesn't want to work in that environment they keep his rights for years even past his 5 year rookie deal for I think 3 more years.

He probably should have just signed the QO and waiting out the year and been a UFA, it just bugs me that him choosing not to sign means that after a year not playing the Rockets would still own him.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 08:57 AM
So ... does anybody see any way, short of Houston renouncing their rights on him, that he gets free of Houston? Nobody will trade for him, and the Rockets can't trade him for most of the season even if he does sign. If he doesn't report to the Rockets they still own him. If he does report and they don't play him he doesn't get to play elsewhere.

This makes it obvious that RFA is kind of broken.

Come on man. One extremely strange case out of the hundreds of times that it works does not mean it's broken.

Like I've been saying (and no one seems to want to comment on), all he has to do is ask NBA doctors to look at him and clear him a la Chris Bosh. If they clear him he has a case against the Rockets. If they don't, then he's stuck.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 09:00 AM
Come on man. One extremely strange case out of the hundreds of times that it works does not mean it's broken.

Like I've been saying (and no one seems to want to comment on), all he has to do is ask NBA doctors to look at him and clear him a la Chris Bosh. If they clear him he has a case against the Rockets. If they don't, then he's stuck.

I didn't say it was broken, I said kind of broken. It remains, if he doesn't want to play for the Rockets he's screwed. If he signed his QO he would have to play for them. If he doesn't sign his QO they own him for 3 years.

IndyRealist
12-12-2016, 09:04 AM
Unfortunately for DMo that wasn't up to him.

I don't know what DMo wants ... I don't know that he's just looking for more money. I don't know that he's happy to play for the Rockets. I am just talking about his lack of options to get away from the Rockets ... even sitting out a year doesn't get him free from the Rockets. That's what I think is broken ... if he absolutely doesn't want to work in that environment they keep his rights for years even past his 5 year rookie deal for I think 3 more years.

He probably should have just signed the QO and waiting out the year and been a UFA, it just bugs me that him choosing not to sign means that after a year not playing the Rockets would still own him.

Pretty sure if he sits out for a calendar year and doesn't get paid to play basketball, the Rockets lose their right to him. If he went and played in Europe, they would retain rights indefinitely.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 09:42 AM
I didn't say it was broken, I said kind of broken. It remains, if he doesn't want to play for the Rockets he's screwed. If he signed his QO he would have to play for them. If he doesn't sign his QO they own him for 3 years.

Then his agent needs to advise him better. Especially since he's coming off injury.

And again this isn't a contract issue right now. It's a health issue. So DMo needs to get a second opinion.

The reports said he was ok returning to the Rockets.

To me it sounds like the doctors aren't 100% confident letting him play right now and he's a guy looking for a big pay day in case something happens.

So to me this isn't a RFA sorta broken thing. It sounds like an injury grievance.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 09:55 AM
Pretty sure if he sits out for a calendar year and doesn't get paid to play basketball, the Rockets lose their right to him. If he went and played in Europe, they would retain rights indefinitely.

Maybe it's wrong, but what I heard was they keep his rights if he doesn't sign anywhere. I hope that is wrong.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 10:11 AM
Maybe it's wrong, but what I heard was they keep his rights if he doesn't sign anywhere. I hope that is wrong.

Question:
Why should DMo get such an easy pass out of RFA that no other player gets? Because plenty of players have made it known that they don't want the team holding their rights to match, and the team does anyways.

Clint Olbrock
12-12-2016, 10:50 AM
Pretty sure if he sits out for a calendar year and doesn't get paid to play basketball, the Rockets lose their right to him. If he went and played in Europe, they would retain rights indefinitely.

False, Rockets hold the right to issue another Qualifying Offer come summer of 2017 and make him restricted all over again.

IndyRealist
12-12-2016, 10:52 AM
Question:
Why should DMo get such an easy pass out of RFA that no other player gets? Because plenty of players have made it known that they don't want the team holding their rights to match, and the team does anyways.
I think he's arguing against RFA in general, and using DM as the example. He's not saying DM should be treated special, but that RFA should be done away with.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 11:01 AM
I think he's arguing against RFA in general, and using DM as the example. He's not saying DM should be treated special, but that RFA should be done away with.

Then I revert to the side of this doesn't seem like a RFA issue, because Morey matched what he had to match, then came up when he didn't have to; but rather this is an injury grievance. So DMo should have NBA doctors give him a physical.

Because using this 1:1000 example of RFA "gone wrong" isn't going to incite change.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Question:
Why should DMo get such an easy pass out of RFA that no other player gets? Because plenty of players have made it known that they don't want the team holding their rights to match, and the team does anyways.

I'm not talking about DMo ... I don't think any player should be controlled by a team not paying them for more than a year. Right now a player who doesn't want to play for a team who has his rights has essentially no recourse.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 11:46 AM
I'm not talking about DMo ... I don't think any player should be controlled by a team not paying them for more than a year. Right now a player who doesn't want to play for a team who has his rights has essentially no recourse.

You'll never get owners to roll back on RFA though. The owners want it to be made easier to keep players they drafted.

Also DMo had no problem coming back. Right now the issue is Rockets team doctors are saying his back isn't healthy enough to play. Why is that continually ignored?

And he does have recourse:
He could have signed the QO, proved he's healthy, and been an URFA this upcoming offseason and sign with whoever he wants.

BJ Armstrong gave a client bad advice!!! Plain and simple!

Scoots
12-12-2016, 11:47 AM
I think he's arguing against RFA in general, and using DM as the example. He's not saying DM should be treated special, but that RFA should be done away with.

I'm not actually against RFA as a whole, just that it seems a 4 year rookie contract can be extended to 7 years of controlling a player if I understand it correctly. After his rookie contract expires the Rockets, by using qualifying offers can keep control of him (if he doesn't sign the QO) for 3 more years.

Most contracts have out clauses, usually with some sort of penalty. Why not let RFAs buy their way out of their restricted status? There has to be some solution that is better than the level of control teams have now.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 11:54 AM
I'm not actually against RFA as a whole, just that it seems a 4 year rookie contract can be extended to 7 years of controlling a player if I understand it correctly. After his rookie contract expires the Rockets, by using qualifying offers can keep control of him (if he doesn't sign the QO) for 3 more years.

Most contracts have out clauses, usually with some sort of penalty. Why not let RFAs buy their way out of their restricted status? There has to be some solution that is better than the level of control teams have now.

Then agents should better advise players that want out.

Take Greg Monroe. One of the savviest moves in a long time with RFA. He knew he was going to get a max offer, and wanted out of Detroit. He's too good for them to not match, and because of S&T rules with RFA, that wouldn't have worked. So he signed his QO, and got to URFA faster than most RFA's and got to pick who he signed with.

If RFAs truly wanted to get out from the team that owns their rights, they should follow what Monroe did.

Scoots
12-12-2016, 11:57 AM
And he does have recourse:
He could have signed the QO, proved he's healthy, and been an URFA this upcoming offseason and sign with whoever he wants.

So I say "a player who doesn't want to play for a team ... has essentially no recourse." ... and your response is that he can play for that team. How do those two match up?

warfelg
12-12-2016, 12:16 PM
So I say "a player who doesn't want to play for a team ... has essentially no recourse." ... and your response is that he can play for that team. How do those two match up?

You were talking about how a team can keep a guy up to 7 years. While true...all he had to do was sign the QO put in one year of healthy play and can sign wherever he wants.

RFA isn't going away at all. Like I keep saying, this is the 1:1000 case. What's going on with DMo is not normal. They won't change the rules because of one case.

Where by the way: DMO IS ****ING HURT!!!

warfelg
12-12-2016, 12:57 PM
DECEMBER 12, 10:44am: Although the Rockets and Motiejunas agreed to a new contract on Friday, the deal hit a snag with the forward’s physical on Saturday, per Jonathan Feigen of The Houston Chronicle (Twitter links). According to Feigen, GM Daryl Morey said today that he and the Rockets are in “active discussions” with Motiejunas’ reps and the league, but it’s not clear whether or not the 26-year-old will officially join the team.

Looks like moderation is finally on it's way.

Vinylman
12-12-2016, 01:29 PM
This situation is an unbelievable anomaly and is driven by the massive increase in the cap this past summer

DM and BJ wanted to take advantage of that and probably assumed multiple teams would have offered nice fat contracts but didn't

I think in any other year DM would have signed the QO if he really wanted out.

IndyRealist
12-12-2016, 02:29 PM
This situation is an unbelievable anomaly and is driven by the massive increase in the cap this past summer

DM and BJ wanted to take advantage of that and probably assumed multiple teams would have offered nice fat contracts but didn't

I think in any other year DM would have signed the QO if he really wanted out.

When the offers didn't come, he always had the option of just taking the QO. Houston can't retract it and still retain his rights. The fact that he held out and created this mess is on BJ.

warfelg
12-12-2016, 02:34 PM
When the offers didn't come, he always had the option of just taking the QO. Houston can't retract it and still retain his rights. The fact that he held out and created this mess is on BJ.

Amen to that.

Saddletramp
12-13-2016, 04:21 AM
I don't know what Scoots is getting at. DMo doesn't mind playing for the Rockets, he just wants more money. But RFA let's you know what you're worth, and apparently for whatever reason he isn't worth much more than what the Rockets figured in the summer.

Are you suggesting that if a player doesn't want to stay with a team that holds their rights they can just say "trade me" and the team is a bunch of dicks if they don't trade them? Because that's pretty short sighted.

Scoots
12-13-2016, 09:26 AM
I don't know what Scoots is getting at. DMo doesn't mind playing for the Rockets, he just wants more money. But RFA let's you know what you're worth, and apparently for whatever reason he isn't worth much more than what the Rockets figured in the summer.

Are you suggesting that if a player doesn't want to stay with a team that holds their rights they can just say "trade me" and the team is a bunch of dicks if they don't trade them? Because that's pretty short sighted.

When a player is drafted the maximum length contract they can sign with a team is 5 years. I don't think that team should be able to control where that player plays after 5 years without that players consent. The way the system is now DMo has no path to freedom from the Rockets other than playing for them. I'm not saying DMo doesn't want to play for them, I'm just using him as an example.

I think restricted free agency should be limited to 1 year.

I think if a player really wants to be traded the GM usually does the trade because he doesn't want a player on his team who doesn't want to be there. It's bad management when you keep a player around who wants out most of the time ... of course it's a lot easier to trade a player who hasn't made it known they want to be traded and who is healthy.

Saddletramp
12-13-2016, 04:52 PM
When a player is drafted the maximum length contract they can sign with a team is 5 years. I don't think that team should be able to control where that player plays after 5 years without that players consent. The way the system is now DMo has no path to freedom from the Rockets other than playing for them. I'm not saying DMo doesn't want to play for them, I'm just using him as an example.

I think restricted free agency should be limited to 1 year.

I think if a player really wants to be traded the GM usually does the trade because he doesn't want a player on his team who doesn't want to be there. It's bad management when you keep a player around who wants out most of the time ... of course it's a lot easier to trade a player who hasn't made it known they want to be traded and who is healthy.

RFA was put into place so guys wouldn't immediately leave their teams after they put in their 3 or 4 or 5 years on their rookie deals. Without it, no one would stay with New Orleans or Utah or other small markets (unless they're playing really well). We see guys wanting out all the time because they'd rather play somewhere else. Remember Eric Gordon a few years ago?

But it also gives the player a chance for the market to set their price so they're not playing for chump change. In DMo's case, I don't see how Morey handled it any differently then anyone else would have.

"We have concerns about your back, so here's a deal we are comfortable with."
"No thanks."
"Go get an offer and we'll either match or you'll play for that team. Either way, that'll be your money."
------NO TAKERS FOR MONTHS------
{BJ gets a deal that includes team incentives that don't have to be matched presumably because BJ is an idiot and didn't know that they don't have to be matched}

"Ok, we'll match what we have to."
"NO FAIR!"
.....you get the point (although it looks like you don't).


TL:DR-----It's in the CBA and when anyone else complains, "it's just a business". Apparently this time it set you off and I still have no idea why. The injury concerns really set this one apart, but it's consistent with how it gets done. If they don't like it, they need to express their concerns to the Union Chief to get it changed but you and I both know that won't happen.

Scoots
12-13-2016, 06:01 PM
I have no issue the 1 year RFA standard ... but the way the Rockets are using it is to say they own DMo not under contract for not the 1 standard year, but the year after that and the year after that too. If a team and a player can't work out a deal and the player opts to not play for 1 year to get away that should be enough ... the average NBA career is 4.8 years, no team should be able to keep a player from playing in the NBA for any other team for 3 years after having already played for them for 4. 1 is okay, 3 is too much.

Saddletramp
12-13-2016, 07:31 PM
Like someone already said, he coulda taken the Qualifying Offer for one year like Monroe did but they thought they could get a big deal now. It backfired. When they couldn't get what they wanted in the summer, they shoulda just read the writing on the wall. Morey gave them ample opportunities.

They bungled this whole thing from the get go. No matter what they tried to do, Morey had a counter. It's like they didn't even know the rules. I don't blame DMo, I blame BJ.

warfelg
12-13-2016, 08:39 PM
Like someone already said, he coulda taken the Qualifying Offer for one year like Monroe did but they thought they could get a big deal now. It backfired. When they couldn't get what they wanted in the summer, they shoulda just read the writing on the wall. Morey gave them ample opportunities.

They bungled this whole thing from the get go. No matter what they tried to do, Morey had a counter. It's like they didn't even know the rules. I don't blame DMo, I blame BJ.

Amen man.

Scoots
12-13-2016, 11:42 PM
Like someone already said, he coulda taken the Qualifying Offer for one year like Monroe did but they thought they could get a big deal now. It backfired. When they couldn't get what they wanted in the summer, they shoulda just read the writing on the wall. Morey gave them ample opportunities.

They bungled this whole thing from the get go. No matter what they tried to do, Morey had a counter. It's like they didn't even know the rules. I don't blame DMo, I blame BJ.

And that still has him playing for the Rockets.

Saddletramp
12-14-2016, 02:23 AM
And that still has him playing for the Rockets.


Still don't know what you're getting at. You either have RFA to protect small market teams or you get rid of it and people leave first chance they get and those teams never have a chance. If OKC wasn't so cheap, they'd had had KD/RWB/Harden for an extra few years, without RFA, Durant woulda left way before to presumably join the Heat for the easiest possible ring.

You're normally a great poster, but every once in awhile it's like talking to a child. Or my brother when it comes to this last election. "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Trump" when he complains about what Trump is trying to implement now. "I voted third party. Hillary's crooked." ****ing dumb.

Saddletramp
12-14-2016, 02:26 AM
Love your outdated sig, by the way. Every time I see it I smile and think "2016 Warriors, their demise was my fun."

Scoots
12-14-2016, 10:19 AM
Love your outdated sig, by the way. Every time I see it I smile and think "2016 Warriors, their demise was my fun."

Yeah, I considered changing it ... but you've got to wear your failures.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 10:38 AM
Still don't know what you're getting at. You either have RFA to protect small market teams or you get rid of it and people leave first chance they get and those teams never have a chance. If OKC wasn't so cheap, they'd had had KD/RWB/Harden for an extra few years, without RFA, Durant woulda left way before to presumably join the Heat for the easiest possible ring.

You're normally a great poster, but every once in awhile it's like talking to a child. Or my brother when it comes to this last election. "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Trump" when he complains about what Trump is trying to implement now. "I voted third party. Hillary's crooked." ****ing dumb.

Okay ... let me try again.

I'm using DMo as an example only, it's not really about DMo only that his situation highlights what I think is a broken aspect of RFA.

DMo signed a 4 year contract, but the Rockets own his rights for 5 years so when the rookie deal runs out the Rockets make a QO to keep him restricted in free agency. All of that is completely reasonable and give the Rockets the leverage they need to keep their own drafted player around for another contract which is the way it works out most of the time. DMo could sign a 1 year QO and play 1 more year for the Rockets and be free. Again, I'm fine with that. If DMo doesn't want to play ever again for the Rockets for whatever reason he can ask for a trade (but that's not really in his control), or he and his agent can try to get another team to make a deal the Rockets hate ... and I'm fine with those options in RFA. The only part I have an issue with is that if DMo opts to not sign the QO and not sign any other deal with any other team he still can't get free for 3 more years. The CBA says a team can't lock up a rookie for more than 5 years but a player can't be free for 7 years if he doesn't want to play for the team that drafts him beyond his rookie deal if the team doesn't want to let him.

warfelg
12-14-2016, 10:54 AM
Okay ... let me try again.

I'm using DMo as an example only, it's not really about DMo only that his situation highlights what I think is a broken aspect of RFA.

DMo signed a 4 year contract, but the Rockets own his rights for 5 years so when the rookie deal runs out the Rockets make a QO to keep him restricted in free agency. All of that is completely reasonable and give the Rockets the leverage they need to keep their own drafted player around for another contract which is the way it works out most of the time. DMo could sign a 1 year QO and play 1 more year for the Rockets and be free. Again, I'm fine with that. If DMo doesn't want to play ever again for the Rockets for whatever reason he can ask for a trade (but that's not really in his control), or he and his agent can try to get another team to make a deal the Rockets hate ... and I'm fine with those options in RFA. The only part I have an issue with is that if DMo opts to not sign the QO and not sign any other deal with any other team he still can't get free for 3 more years. The CBA says a team can't lock up a rookie for more than 5 years but a player can't be free for 7 years if he doesn't want to play for the team that drafts him beyond his rookie deal if the team doesn't want to let him.

DMo is a unicorn situation. If you can find at least 5 other cases just like DMo's then I'll buy that RFA is broken. Until then you're arguing that the exception should change the rule, which no one will ever go for.

And on the bolded: Every player knows this. Every agent knows this. It's in the CBA. So shouldn't DMo and his agent screwing up on that facet be on....the agent? I haven't really seen you address BJ Armstrong's role in this yet.

Also they've been meeting with NBA officials all week, and I've heard that he's going to be subjected to an NBA physical from independent doctors, much like they did with Bosh. If he fails it sounds like tough ****.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 11:09 AM
DMo is a unicorn situation. If you can find at least 5 other cases just like DMo's then I'll buy that RFA is broken. Until then you're arguing that the exception should change the rule, which no one will ever go for.

And on the bolded: Every player knows this. Every agent knows this. It's in the CBA. So shouldn't DMo and his agent screwing up on that facet be on....the agent? I haven't really seen you address BJ Armstrong's role in this yet.

Also they've been meeting with NBA officials all week, and I've heard that he's going to be subjected to an NBA physical from independent doctors, much like they did with Bosh. If he fails it sounds like tough ****.

I'm not arguing that an exception should change the rule. I'm saying that the rule is fundamentally wrong. It's not about DMo, it about a strange aspect of restricted free agency.

And as far as exceptions not changing the rules? That happens regularly. We have Bird exceptions and the Arenas rule for just such events where the exception caused the rule.

warfelg
12-14-2016, 11:20 AM
I'm not arguing that an exception should change the rule. I'm saying that the rule is fundamentally wrong. It's not about DMo, it about a strange aspect of restricted free agency.

And as far as exceptions not changing the rules? That happens regularly. We have Bird exceptions and the Arenas rule for just such events where the exception caused the rule.

Then what's your counter to owners who would be against this? Owners/GM like RFA because it gives them an ability to retain star players. Players generally like it because it gets them PAID. Do you really think Crabbe would get a near max if it weren't for RFA? Tyler Johnson? Harrison Barnes? No they got it because of RFA rules.

Vinylman
12-14-2016, 11:21 AM
Okay ... let me try again.

I'm using DMo as an example only, it's not really about DMo only that his situation highlights what I think is a broken aspect of RFA.

DMo signed a 4 year contract, but the Rockets own his rights for 5 years so when the rookie deal runs out the Rockets make a QO to keep him restricted in free agency. All of that is completely reasonable and give the Rockets the leverage they need to keep their own drafted player around for another contract which is the way it works out most of the time. DMo could sign a 1 year QO and play 1 more year for the Rockets and be free. Again, I'm fine with that. If DMo doesn't want to play ever again for the Rockets for whatever reason he can ask for a trade (but that's not really in his control), or he and his agent can try to get another team to make a deal the Rockets hate ... and I'm fine with those options in RFA. The only part I have an issue with is that if DMo opts to not sign the QO and not sign any other deal with any other team he still can't get free for 3 more years. The CBA says a team can't lock up a rookie for more than 5 years but a player can't be free for 7 years if he doesn't want to play for the team that drafts him beyond his rookie deal if the team doesn't want to let him.

Dude... you are missing the boat... if he signed the QO and quietly went to Morey and told him to trade him Morey would have done exactly that (he tried to trade him last year but failed the physical)...

It is DMO's and BJ's fault once they didn't get a solid offer during the offseason. His other option would have been to sit out of basketball for a year and rehab... why he would do that when he could have done the same thing and got paid the QO is baffling...

As for the "fairness" of the RFA process it really doesn't matter ... the players agreed to it in the CBA and the owners need it to keep some semblance of competitive balance or everyone would bolt the sub-optimal markets.

If you want to get rid of RFA the only logical counter to it for the small market teams is to receive compensatory picks which is also sub-optimal since NBA talent disparities between a top 5 pick and a pick 10 spots lower is vastly different unlike other sports leagues.

There is plenty of stuff for players to ***** about when it comes to the CBA ... team control vis a vis the RFA process is about 50th on the list.

Vinylman
12-14-2016, 11:24 AM
Then what's your counter to owners who would be against this? Owners/GM like RFA because it gives them an ability to retain star players. Players generally like it because it gets them PAID. Do you really think Crabbe would get a near max if it weren't for RFA? Tyler Johnson? Harrison Barnes? No they got it because of RFA rules.

This is a fact that people just don't seem to get.

IndyRealist
12-14-2016, 12:26 PM
Rookie contracts are 5 years with the option to renegotiate after 4. Everything else is semantics. If you are not an unrestricted free agent, you're still bound by a contract.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 01:43 PM
Then what's your counter to owners who would be against this? Owners/GM like RFA because it gives them an ability to retain star players. Players generally like it because it gets them PAID. Do you really think Crabbe would get a near max if it weren't for RFA? Tyler Johnson? Harrison Barnes? No they got it because of RFA rules.

And the RFA rules support all that without the team having 3 years of rights. 1 year is sufficient.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 01:45 PM
Dude... you are missing the boat... if he signed the QO and quietly went to Morey and told him to trade him Morey would have done exactly that (he tried to trade him last year but failed the physical)...

It is DMO's and BJ's fault once they didn't get a solid offer during the offseason. His other option would have been to sit out of basketball for a year and rehab... why he would do that when he could have done the same thing and got paid the QO is baffling...

As for the "fairness" of the RFA process it really doesn't matter ... the players agreed to it in the CBA and the owners need it to keep some semblance of competitive balance or everyone would bolt the sub-optimal markets.

If you want to get rid of RFA the only logical counter to it for the small market teams is to receive compensatory picks which is also sub-optimal since NBA talent disparities between a top 5 pick and a pick 10 spots lower is vastly different unlike other sports leagues.

There is plenty of stuff for players to ***** about when it comes to the CBA ... team control vis a vis the RFA process is about 50th on the list.

Okay. I'm not against RFA.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 01:46 PM
Rookie contracts are 5 years with the option to renegotiate after 4. Everything else is semantics. If you are not an unrestricted free agent, you're still bound by a contract.

And all I'm saying is that after 5 years DMo should be unrestricted.

warfelg
12-14-2016, 02:00 PM
And the RFA rules support all that without the team having 3 years of rights. 1 year is sufficient.

Where are you getting 3 years?

Their rookie contract is a 2+1+1 of team options.

1 year QO to get out of the team.

In the +1 option years he has no choice. He's not even a free agent unless those options are not picked up. So the best case in what your saying is just make it 4 years guaranteed. Except owners will never go for that because they want to be able to shed themselves if busts faster.


For first-round draft picks, restricted free agency is only allowed after a team exercises its option for a fourth year, and the team makes a Qualifying Offer at the Rookie-scale amount after the fourth year is completed. For any other player to be a restricted free agent, he must be at most a three-year NBA veteran, and his team must have made a Qualifying Offer for either 125% of his previous season's salary or the minimum salary plus $200,000, whichever offer is higher.

1st round rookie deals with options and QO is a 5 year contract.

warfelg
12-14-2016, 02:04 PM
And all I'm saying is that after 5 years DMo should be unrestricted.

Ok. He's played 4. He can sign the QO and be an URFA if he wanted to.

Saddletramp
12-14-2016, 04:36 PM
Like someone already said, he coulda taken the Qualifying Offer for one year like Monroe did but they thought they could get a big deal now. It backfired. When they couldn't get what they wanted in the summer, they shoulda just read the writing on the wall. Morey gave them ample opportunities.

They bungled this whole thing from the get go. No matter what they tried to do, Morey had a counter. It's like they didn't even know the rules. I don't blame DMo, I blame BJ.


And that still has him playing for the Rockets.

{Me trying to explain things}


Okay ... let me try again.

I'm using DMo as an example only, it's not really about DMo only that his situation highlights what I think is a broken aspect of RFA.

DMo signed a 4 year contract, but the Rockets own his rights for 5 years so when the rookie deal runs out the Rockets make a QO to keep him restricted in free agency. All of that is completely reasonable and give the Rockets the leverage they need to keep their own drafted player around for another contract which is the way it works out most of the time. DMo could sign a 1 year QO and play 1 more year for the Rockets and be free. Again, I'm fine with that.

WTF?


If DMo doesn't want to play ever again for the Rockets for whatever reason he can ask for a trade (but that's not really in his control), or he and his agent can try to get another team to make a deal the Rockets hate ... and I'm fine with those options in RFA. The only part I have an issue with is that if DMo opts to not sign the QO and not sign any other deal with any other team he still can't get free for 3 more years. The CBA says a team can't lock up a rookie for more than 5 years but a player can't be free for 7 years if he doesn't want to play for the team that drafts him beyond his rookie deal if the team doesn't want to let him.

Those are the rules. You want out? Sign the QO. You don't want to? Get a deal your team won't match. Can't do that either? Then just play basketball. If the QO wasn't there then I could see a problem but that's an option. I still don't see why you're having a hard time grasping this. RFA protects the player and the team. DMo/BJ have even said it's not about the Rockets, it's about the money. No one wanted him at his price until The Nets came up with an easy to match offer that wasn't that much better than what Morey offered. It's like your 7 year old nephew Timmy playing chess against Gary Kasparov. Morey makes his living on doing these types of deals. DMo makes his living on playing basketball and BJ makes his living these days by doing dumb stuff like this.

Scoots
12-14-2016, 07:39 PM
{Me trying to explain things}

WTF?

Those are the rules. You want out? Sign the QO. You don't want to? Get a deal your team won't match. Can't do that either? Then just play basketball. If the QO wasn't there then I could see a problem but that's an option. I still don't see why you're having a hard time grasping this. RFA protects the player and the team. DMo/BJ have even said it's not about the Rockets, it's about the money. No one wanted him at his price until The Nets came up with an easy to match offer that wasn't that much better than what Morey offered. It's like your 7 year old nephew Timmy playing chess against Gary Kasparov. Morey makes his living on doing these types of deals. DMo makes his living on playing basketball and BJ makes his living these days by doing dumb stuff like this.

And I think the rules should change so that a RFA can sit out a year with no pay and become a UFA. The vast majority of the players don't want to lose 1 year of their career so the RFA still has it's positive effect of giving the drafting team the ability to match and to offer the QO.

Saddletramp
12-14-2016, 07:47 PM
And I think the rules should change so that a RFA can sit out a year with no pay and become a UFA. The vast majority of the players don't want to lose 1 year of their career so the RFA still has it's positive effect of giving the drafting team the ability to match and to offer the QO.

Nobody would agree to do that going in to the offseason, including DMo.

Your take on this subject has been lacking, to say the least. Time for me to move on.

mrblisterdundee
12-14-2016, 09:02 PM
Thing is Nets don't have anything to offer.

Trevor Booker would be a great fit in Houston surrounded by all those shooters. I think his pay is similar to Montiejunas' offer. But I don't know how or when Houston could make a trade.

warfelg
12-14-2016, 10:09 PM
Trevor Booker would be a great fit in Houston surrounded by all those shooters. I think his pay is similar to Montiejunas' offer. But I don't know how or when Houston could make a trade.

1 year from now.

Ariza's Better
12-15-2016, 01:33 AM
Trevor Booker would be a great fit in Houston surrounded by all those shooters. I think his pay is similar to Montiejunas' offer. But I don't know how or when Houston could make a trade.

Nah the Rockets are good on PFs. There is nothing the nets can offer Houston really.

warfelg
12-15-2016, 09:03 PM
Rockets signed Bobby Brown and renounced DMo's rights.

Let's see how this ends now.

Scoots
12-15-2016, 10:53 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens. Some contender could sign DMo for a minimum contract so he can prove his health.

Saddletramp
12-16-2016, 12:05 AM
Wow. That's crazy. I wonder what actually went down.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 12:29 AM
Wow. That's crazy. I wonder what actually went down.

A questionable physical or a plea from DMo for his freedom are pretty much the only things I can think of.

warfelg
12-16-2016, 02:38 AM
It will be interesting to see what happens. Some contender could sign DMo for a minimum contract so he can prove his health.

So basically play for the QO [emoji57]

Saddletramp
12-16-2016, 03:26 AM
A questionable physical or a plea from DMo for his freedom are pretty much the only things I can think of.

Either way, still doesn't make sense.

In saying that, I mean neither way makes sense. If it's the physical that he failed, it's all null and void until he can pass a physical. No way Morey lets him go over a failed physical. And a plea? I just don't see that happening.

Cracka2HI!
12-16-2016, 04:27 AM
This seems really Fd up for Motiejunas. How can the Nets not sign him now? That's totally Fd. I get that there are rules and technicalities but I can't imagine how the Rockets can get out of his contract AND the Nets can't sign him. Shouldn't the Rocket have to honor the offer sheet they matched that doesn't allow him to go back and sign with The Nets for a year? I get he may have failed a physical and if those are the rules I don't really have a problem with the Rockets getting out of the deal. If the Rockets are off the hook shouldn't he then be allowed to go back to the Nets? The Rockets and this stupid rule may have cost Motiejunas $30 some million dollars and for sure cost him what he would have made in Brooklyn this year.

Clint Olbrock
12-16-2016, 07:37 AM
After ALL that he's an unrestricted free agent now, WOW. What a wild 10 months it's been for DMo.

IndyRealist
12-16-2016, 09:09 AM
This seems really Fd up for Motiejunas. How can the Nets not sign him now? That's totally Fd. I get that there are rules and technicalities but I can't imagine how the Rockets can get out of his contract AND the Nets can't sign him. Shouldn't the Rocket have to honor the offer sheet they matched that doesn't allow him to go back and sign with The Nets for a year? I get he may have failed a physical and if those are the rules I don't really have a problem with the Rockets getting out of the deal. If the Rockets are off the hook shouldn't he then be allowed to go back to the Nets? The Rockets and this stupid rule may have cost Motiejunas $30 some million dollars and for sure cost him what he would have made in Brooklyn this year.

If he failed a physical for the Rockets, he would fail a physical for the Nets. Whether the Nets would waive the physical is another matter, but I doubt anyone is touching him with a failed physical. At least not for $37m. Massive red flag.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 09:25 AM
So basically play for the QO [emoji57]

Most likely less.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 09:27 AM
Either way, still doesn't make sense.

In saying that, I mean neither way makes sense. If it's the physical that he failed, it's all null and void until he can pass a physical. No way Morey lets him go over a failed physical. And a plea? I just don't see that happening.

He may have failed the Rockets (and Pistons) physical but pass the physical of another team (Nets passed him). If Morey just decided he would not get PT on this team to improve his trade value why keep him around for any money let alone millions.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 09:28 AM
This seems really Fd up for Motiejunas. How can the Nets not sign him now? That's totally Fd. I get that there are rules and technicalities but I can't imagine how the Rockets can get out of his contract AND the Nets can't sign him. Shouldn't the Rocket have to honor the offer sheet they matched that doesn't allow him to go back and sign with The Nets for a year? I get he may have failed a physical and if those are the rules I don't really have a problem with the Rockets getting out of the deal. If the Rockets are off the hook shouldn't he then be allowed to go back to the Nets? The Rockets and this stupid rule may have cost Motiejunas $30 some million dollars and for sure cost him what he would have made in Brooklyn this year.

I agree ... this is one of the things broken about RFA.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 09:36 AM
If he failed a physical for the Rockets, he would fail a physical for the Nets. Whether the Nets would waive the physical is another matter, but I doubt anyone is touching him with a failed physical. At least not for $37m. Massive red flag.

He failed a physical with the Pistons, then played for the Rockets, then passed a physical with the Nets, then maybe failed one with the Rockets. I don't think all teams have equal opinions about physicals.

IndyRealist
12-16-2016, 10:53 AM
He may have failed the Rockets (and Pistons) physical but pass the physical of another team (Nets passed him). If Morey just decided he would not get PT on this team to improve his trade value why keep him around for any money let alone millions.

Did he pass a physical? Because they don't get a physical until the contract is done, and he got matched.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 11:25 AM
Did he pass a physical? Because they don't get a physical until the contract is done, and he got matched.

I read that he got a physical from the Nets docs before they made the offer. That's fairly common for a free agent.

warfelg
12-16-2016, 12:40 PM
Most likely less.

Sounds like his agent cost him millions of dollars [emoji57]

In all reality if he signed the QO I think Rox doctors would have let him play knowing there was not long term risk to the team.

Scoots
12-16-2016, 01:31 PM
Sounds like his agent cost him millions of dollars [emoji57]

In all reality if he signed the QO I think Rox doctors would have let him play knowing there was not long term risk to the team.

1. Too early to say.

2. We don't know the decisions were from his agent.

Cracka2HI!
12-16-2016, 05:32 PM
This is still urking me. This seems like the something the league and union should be able to step in and fix as far as the Nets go. I honestly think Motiejunas should be able to sue the Rockets and/or League for the full value of that contract plus expenses and lost wages. I know the CBA has fancy language but I would think labor laws in general might be on Donatas side here. I don't recall a player getting more screwed over than this. This would be like my current employer somehow blocking me from taking a better job and then firing me. This is all with the knowledge that there isn't as good of a job out there for me. Really ****ed up.

Saddletramp
12-16-2016, 05:41 PM
He may have failed the Rockets (and Pistons) physical but pass the physical of another team (Nets passed him). If Morey just decided he would not get PT on this team to improve his trade value why keep him around for any money let alone millions.

Still doesn't make sense. He'd be a salary match in a trade this offseason or depth in case of a trade. And the way Morey structured it, his contract isn't garuateed each year until after free agency starts.

Only thing I can think of is that with the team playing this well they might not want the distraction. Still think something weird behind the scenes is going on. What that is, I don't know.

IndyRealist
12-17-2016, 02:24 AM
This is still urking me. This seems like the something the league and union should be able to step in and fix as far as the Nets go. I honestly think Motiejunas should be able to sue the Rockets and/or League for the full value of that contract plus expenses and lost wages. I know the CBA has fancy language but I would think labor laws in general might be on Donatas side here. I don't recall a player getting more screwed over than this. This would be like my current employer somehow blocking me from taking a better job and then firing me. This is all with the knowledge that there isn't as good of a job out there for me. Really ****ed up.

They have no recourse. The Rockets followed the rules to the letter. They matched an offer sheet for a restricted free agent, and both sides agreed to void that contract and sign a new one. Contracts are conditional on being able to pass a physical. He did not. If the NBA steps in and does something about it, then they are opening the door to every player litigating because they don't like the deal they signed. Players will sign a 5 year max deal, then refuse to play and call lawyers in year 3 because some other guy makes more money because the cap went up.

Scoots
12-17-2016, 10:31 AM
They have no recourse. The Rockets followed the rules to the letter. They matched an offer sheet for a restricted free agent, and both sides agreed to void that contract and sign a new one. Contracts are conditional on being able to pass a physical. He did not. If the NBA steps in and does something about it, then they are opening the door to every player litigating because they don't like the deal they signed. Players will sign a 5 year max deal, then refuse to play and call lawyers in year 3 because some other guy makes more money because the cap went up.

What he's saying is that the Nets want him and because of a technicality DMo can now sign with any team as long as it's not the Nets. His deal was voided with the Nets by the Rockets who then voided their deal ... he can still sign with the Rockets but can't sign with the Nets, so in effect the Rockets paid him nothing, made him an unrestricted free agent and in the process took millions from him. It's not that he, his agent, or we don't understand the rules and why it happened ... just that it's an odd situation that results in an odd situation where an unrestricted free agent can sign with any team except the one that wants to sign him who he has never played for and have never paid him anything.

IndyRealist
12-17-2016, 10:40 AM
What he's saying is that the Nets want him and because of a technicality DMo can now sign with any team as long as it's not the Nets. His deal was voided with the Nets by the Rockets who then voided their deal ... he can still sign with the Rockets but can't sign with the Nets, so in effect the Rockets paid him nothing, made him an unrestricted free agent and in the process took millions from him. It's not that he, his agent, or we don't understand the rules and why it happened ... just that it's an odd situation that results in an odd situation where an unrestricted free agent can sign with any team except the one that wants to sign him who he has never played for and have never paid him anything.

No I get it, but that's how RFA works. They literally can't do anything for DMo or they risk litigation from every player unhappy with the deal they signed. What they CAN do is change the RFA clause in the next CBA, but they can't do anything for him.

Saddletramp
12-17-2016, 03:15 PM
Also, I very seriously doubt the Rockets nulled the Nets deal and then voided their own just so he wouldn't go to the Nets. Between them matching the deal (with their own provisions) and releasing him, something happened. I bet that the Rockets don't care if he goes to the Nets but the NBA doesn't want to set that precedent.

warfelg
12-17-2016, 03:27 PM
Also, I very seriously doubt the Rockets nulled the Nets deal and then voided their own just so he wouldn't go to the Nets. Between them matching the deal (with their own provisions) and releasing him, something happened. I bet that the Rockets don't care if he goes to the Nets but the NBA doesn't want to set that precedent.

I honestly think the NBA doctors told DMo that he could play if he wanted to, Houston doctors said it isn't safe, and this was the compromise. Similar to where the Heat and Bosh are going.

Clint Olbrock
12-17-2016, 04:28 PM
Also, I very seriously doubt the Rockets nulled the Nets deal and then voided their own just so he wouldn't go to the Nets. Between them matching the deal (with their own provisions) and releasing him, something happened. I bet that the Rockets don't care if he goes to the Nets but the NBA doesn't want to set that precedent.

It's in the CBA, lol they didn't just forbid him from playing for the Nets, how things played out it all followed the CBA and how it's structured.

Bruno
12-17-2016, 05:06 PM
this whole thing was a game of cat and mouse. I think this was a huge F-You from the Rockets.

"actually Mr. Armstrong, this is what a professional level meta play looks like. Sincerely, your friends from the Rockets organization."

sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

Scoots
12-17-2016, 05:49 PM
Also, I very seriously doubt the Rockets nulled the Nets deal and then voided their own just so he wouldn't go to the Nets. Between them matching the deal (with their own provisions) and releasing him, something happened. I bet that the Rockets don't care if he goes to the Nets but the NBA doesn't want to set that precedent.

I don't think it's the Rockets screwing him, rather a very odd situation resulting in him being screwed.

Bruno
12-17-2016, 06:22 PM
It's in the CBA, lol they didn't just forbid him from playing for the Nets, how things played out it all followed the CBA and how it's structured.

the CBA was written in such a way so that management across the league can implement these kind of tactics. its like wealthy tax dodgers, they take advantage of loopholes in the tax law in order to keep as much as their wealth as possible- of course those loopholes are there because people like them want those loopholes there. so yea- maybe lets not totally blame the Rockets, but it's not a nebulaesque situation either, stuff like this is allowed by design.

Saddletramp
12-19-2016, 03:20 AM
It's in the CBA, lol they didn't just forbid him from playing for the Nets, how things played out it all followed the CBA and how it's structured.

Not sure what you're getting at (unless you're still a step or two behind).

What I was saying was that I doubt Morey matched thinking that he'd never actually sign a deal DMo/BJ would agree to and then just let me go to screw over the Nets/DMo.

Never mind. If you didn't comprehend what I was saying the first time, a second time wont help..

Scoots
12-19-2016, 05:56 PM
So, watching ESPN and they talk about how DMo just didn't want to be in Houston anymore which is how it ended up this way.

Hmm ... I seem to recall being told over and over that DMo was happy to stay and that my proposed reason things were going the way they were going being that DMo wanted out was simply wrong. Who knows what happened but it certainly seems SOMETHING went really wrong between him and the team.

It's reasonable for me to wonder if there may have been a little bit of a "screw you" in Morey matching the Nets deal with how things have played out and what has been said in the media.

It's truly bizarre.

Any guesses where he goes? He may need a team that has a solid support structure that can support him playing strictly limited minutes.

warfelg
12-19-2016, 06:21 PM
I think he doesn't play.

Saddletramp
12-19-2016, 06:32 PM
So, watching ESPN and they talk about how DMo just didn't want to be in Houston anymore which is how it ended up this way.

Hmm ... I seem to recall being told over and over that DMo was happy to stay and that my proposed reason things were going the way they were going being that DMo wanted out was simply wrong.

That's what they were unsolicitedly saying all along. Like, the whole time. It was only about money/multiple years from what they were saying.


Who knows what happened but it certainly seems SOMETHING went really wrong between him and the team.

It's reasonable for me to wonder if there may have been a little bit of a "screw you" in Morey matching the Nets deal with how things have played out and what has been said in the media.

It's truly bizarre.

I still doubt it. They wouldn't have tried to work with the parameters for it to happen. Also, DMo finally agreed to what Morey gave but didn't pass their physical and was sent home when he tried to re-join the team.

Sounds to me that after all of that runaround, DMo failed the physical and the doctors realized something is worse than originally thought. With that, Morey just cut his losses.


Any guesses where he goes? He may need a team that has a solid support structure that can support him playing strictly limited minutes.

He might come back and play for someone but this whole situation has truly tarnished his image, injured or not. I very seriously doubt he'll get a deal like what he's been a passing up.

Scoots
12-19-2016, 06:46 PM
He might come back and play for someone but this whole situation has truly tarnished his image, injured or not. I very seriously doubt he'll get a deal like what he's been a passing up.

Someone will offer him a chance this year, but probably not more than vet min.

Saddletramp
12-19-2016, 07:29 PM
Someone will offer him a chance this year, but probably not more than vet min.

And that makes him an idiot. Whatever actually happened, he played with Morey and lost.

Scoots
12-19-2016, 10:47 PM
And that makes him an idiot. Whatever actually happened, he played with Morey and lost.

You assume money is more important than his happiness. Do you believe anybody doesn't choose money over happiness is an idiot? Tim Duncan is an idiot? DMo MAY prefer making less elsewhere rather than stay in Houston. Unfortunately we'll probably never really know what happened other than the fact that he had more money on the table.

Saddletramp
12-19-2016, 11:05 PM
You assume money is more important than his happiness. Do you believe anybody doesn't choose money over happiness is an idiot? Tim Duncan is an idiot? DMo MAY prefer making less elsewhere rather than stay in Houston. Unfortunately we'll probably never really know what happened other than the fact that he had more money on the table.

Either DMo/BJ lied straight out or he's an idiot. Plain and simple. Still not sure why you're trolling the Rockets/Morey about all of this; like you said, I doubt we ever know the true story.


On a somewhat related note, Capella is out 6 weeks so DMo would be a great signing. Yeah, that'll happen. :)

Scoots
12-20-2016, 01:59 PM
Either DMo/BJ lied straight out or he's an idiot. Plain and simple. Still not sure why you're trolling the Rockets/Morey about all of this; like you said, I doubt we ever know the true story.


On a somewhat related note, Capella is out 6 weeks so DMo would be a great signing. Yeah, that'll happen. :)

I assume players and agents lie habitually :)

And I never intended it as a troll ... I was genuinely speculating on DMo's situation (which turns out it may not have been so outlandish), and using him to show something I felt was broken about the RFA rules.

Cracka2HI!
12-21-2016, 12:38 AM
They have no recourse. The Rockets followed the rules to the letter. They matched an offer sheet for a restricted free agent, and both sides agreed to void that contract and sign a new one. Contracts are conditional on being able to pass a physical. He did not. If the NBA steps in and does something about it, then they are opening the door to every player litigating because they don't like the deal they signed. Players will sign a 5 year max deal, then refuse to play and call lawyers in year 3 because some other guy makes more money because the cap went up.

I think that's an incredible generalization to make considering this is the most unique labor rights situation I've seen in sports. Like seriously...name me 1 other contract situation where this would be relevant. To quote you "Players will sign a 5 max deal, then refuse to play and call lawyers in year 3 because some other guys make more money because the cap went up". Dude, those are your words!? Please explain to me how players refusing to play in year 3 of their contract can possibly be tied to this? All I'm saying is that it's complete BS The Nets can't sign him again. I have no idea how you got where you got from that comment.

IndyRealist
12-21-2016, 09:21 AM
I think that's an incredible generalization to make considering this is the most unique labor rights situation I've seen in sports. Like seriously...name me 1 other contract situation where this would be relevant. To quote you "Players will sign a 5 max deal, then refuse to play and call lawyers in year 3 because some other guys make more money because the cap went up". Dude, those are your words!? Please explain to me how players refusing to play in year 3 of their contract can possibly be tied to this? All I'm saying is that it's complete BS The Nets can't sign him again. I have no idea how you got where you got from that comment.

It's not that difficult. The CBA has negoatiated rules for free agency. If they bend those rules for one person, then none of the rules are set in stone. Unique situations set precedent. An individual player disagrees with the CBA, too bad. That's something the union needs to take up with the league. If a player can show in arbitration that the league reneged on any rule, they can argue that the same should be done for them. The NBA consistently wins in court because they follow the CBA to the letter.

Cracka2HI!
12-21-2016, 09:51 PM
It's not that difficult. The CBA has negoatiated rules for free agency. If they bend those rules for one person, then none of the rules are set in stone. Unique situations set precedent. An individual player disagrees with the CBA, too bad. That's something the union needs to take up with the league. If a player can show in arbitration that the league reneged on any rule, they can argue that the same should be done for them. The NBA consistently wins in court because they follow the CBA to the letter.
I understand all that and posted a few times that I understand there are rules. What I don't understand is how you can think players will want out of their contracts 3 years into it. I get what you're saying but I think that is a really silly thing to say. If there was ever a situation for the league to make an exception this would be it. Now if you were telling me that any RFA who gets matched would want to sue to get away from their current team that would be something I can understand. Even that would be a totally different scenario than this.

Scoots
12-22-2016, 09:16 AM
I understand all that and posted a few times that I understand there are rules. What I don't understand is how you can think players will want out of their contracts 3 years into it. I get what you're saying but I think that is a really silly thing to say. If there was ever a situation for the league to make an exception this would be it. Now if you were telling me that any RFA who gets matched would want to sue to get away from their current team that would be something I can understand. Even that would be a totally different scenario than this.

I don't think the league should make an exception for DMo. I do think RFAs rules should change for the future though.

IndyRealist
12-22-2016, 09:34 AM
I understand all that and posted a few times that I understand there are rules. What I don't understand is how you can think players will want out of their contracts 3 years into it. I get what you're saying but I think that is a really silly thing to say. If there was ever a situation for the league to make an exception this would be it. Now if you were telling me that any RFA who gets matched would want to sue to get away from their current team that would be something I can understand. Even that would be a totally different scenario than this.

And what I'm saying is that the NBA almost always wins in court because they DO NOT make exceptions to the CBA. If they start making exceptions, everyone will be demanding arbitration over everything. I'm talking about long term repercussions for making an exception.

Cracka2HI!
12-22-2016, 03:12 PM
I see what you're saying. I disagree that players would just start trying to get out of their contracts but it's really a moot point. I could keep going about how the players would be dumb to sue in the 3rd year of a 5 year contract because of the money they would lose by not playing and the fact that they wouldn't have any case what so ever but it's not an argument worth having. The league is obviously not going to do anything about this and it's not like I have a vested interest lol.

Saddletramp
01-01-2017, 02:43 PM
Looks like he's signing with the Pelicans for the vet min. Great move, DMo. You have a little over half the season to prove you can make ~$8M per.


http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/01/pelicans-waive-reggie-williams-may-sign-motiejunas.html?fv-home=true&post-id=52104

Driven
01-01-2017, 02:54 PM
So he's back to battling Terrence jones for playing time. This has just been a disaster for D Mo


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warfelg
01-01-2017, 02:58 PM
So chances that BJ Armstrong gets another client after this mess?

GodsSon
01-01-2017, 04:00 PM
So chances that BJ Armstrong gets another client after this mess?

Still don't get why players even bother paying to have an agent.

Scoots
01-01-2017, 11:01 PM
We have no idea that any of these decisions were BJ's to make.