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View Full Version : Defensive man in the air



Scoots
11-16-2016, 09:56 AM
Can someone explain to me the merit in allowing offensive players to step under defenders who jump straight up in the air to get a defensive foul?

I know there is the tradition of it, and that a defender who jumps has given up control to the offensive player, but it's boring, it's the offensive players creating the contact, and it's dangerous.

TheDish87
11-16-2016, 10:13 AM
didnt they change that rule 2 years ago?

Hawkeye15
11-16-2016, 10:23 AM
I don't get it. If a defender jumps straight in the air, and the offensive player used a pump fake to get them up, then dives into their body and draws a foul, it's absolute ********. The defender should have the right to jump straight up and down. CP3 is the biggest offender of this in the league...

Scoots
11-16-2016, 10:43 AM
I don't get it. If a defender jumps straight in the air, and the offensive player used a pump fake to get them up, then dives into their body and draws a foul, it's absolute ********. The defender should have the right to jump straight up and down. CP3 is the biggest offender of this in the league...

I'd say the refs are the biggest offenders ... but the players barely even complain about it. It's like the players mostly just think that if they jump they have given up control.

Chronz
11-16-2016, 11:05 AM
I don't get it. If a defender jumps straight in the air, and the offensive player used a pump fake to get them up, then dives into their body and draws a foul, it's absolute ********. The defender should have the right to jump straight up and down. CP3 is the biggest offender of this in the league...

The twolves game was legit . those guys were lunging forward. Verticality is easier to prove when you just keep both hands up high.

Its why CP3 is also the best at not jumping forward on his contests

Vee-Rex
11-16-2016, 11:15 AM
I hate this non-call/rule a lot. Kevin Love does this. Pump fake, and even if the defender is jumping straight up, he leans into it and creates contact. That should never be a foul on the defender.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2016, 11:52 AM
The twolves game was legit . those guys were lunging forward. Verticality is easier to prove when you just keep both hands up high.

Its why CP3 is also the best at not jumping forward on his contests

I wasn't referring to the Wolves game. CP3 nosedives into defenders in the air, he just does dude. While it pisses me off, more power to him if the refs won't call him for charging into a straight up defender. Love does it. Others do it. I just notice CP3 doing it a lot more, probably because he is barely 6' tall, and doesn't always create enough space to get a shot off, so he has learned to master it.

Scoots
11-16-2016, 12:53 PM
It's actually happening on drives too ... a player going toward the basket takes a half step while moving the ball up in 2 hands, a defender jumps straight up and with the other step the offensive player strides right into the defenders chest and it's called a block more often than not.

It seems I'm hearing coaches in every game yelling at the refs "what's he supposed to do?" in situations like that. I heard SVG say "Is he just supposed to disappear?" SVG's build-a-wall wouldn't work this year.

Scoots
11-16-2016, 01:01 PM
Another one is then an offensive player leans around a player in the post then brings their elbow up under the arm of a defender with his arms up ... the offensive player throws up a prayer shot and gets the call without the defender jumping or moving at all.

Chronz
11-16-2016, 01:19 PM
I wasn't referring to the Wolves game. CP3 nosedives into defenders in the air, he just does dude. While it pisses me off, more power to him if the refs won't call him for charging into a straight up defender. Love does it. Others do it. I just notice CP3 doing it a lot more, probably because he is barely 6' tall, and doesn't always create enough space to get a shot off, so he has learned to master it.
I disagree, he doesn't really get to the line enough for my tastes. To me it's usually the aggressive scorers or post guys that do it. When cp3 does it, its mostly legit.

Scoots
11-16-2016, 01:50 PM
I disagree, he doesn't really get to the line enough for my tastes. To me it's usually the aggressive scorers or post guys that do it. When cp3 does it, its mostly legit.

The fact is that right now most point guards are being fouled on every possession. CP3 DOES sell contact more that some other players ... but it is more often real contact than not. But right now the guards who run into defenders, including CP3, are being given the advantage by the refs.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2016, 02:54 PM
I disagree, he doesn't really get to the line enough for my tastes. To me it's usually the aggressive scorers or post guys that do it. When cp3 does it, its mostly legit.

Paul would live at the line if he put his body through the crashing, instead of avoiding contact a lot of the time. His foul draws are sold like an actor, you can't really change how he acts, even if you view them as legit in most cases. They kind of need to be theatrical if he doesn't want to get hurt, he is tiny compared to NBA players.

Avenged
11-16-2016, 03:10 PM
That one Kobe Bryant move he perfected? Ahh, good times.

Avenged
11-16-2016, 03:12 PM
Another one is then an offensive player leans around a player in the post then brings their elbow up under the arm of a defender with his arms up ... the offensive player throws up a prayer shot and gets the call without the defender jumping or moving at all.

Lol. We should just get rid of foul rules all together.

Chronz
11-16-2016, 03:45 PM
That one Kobe Bryant move he perfected? Ahh, good times.

Yeah but Kobe got people jumping/running, Paul Pierce would literally lose his dribble, throw up 2 fakes and then jump into you. Wade used to pump fake to death as well


Paul would live at the line if he put his body through the crashing, instead of avoiding contact a lot of the time. His foul draws are sold like an actor, you can't really change how he acts, even if you view them as legit in most cases. They kind of need to be theatrical if he doesn't want to get hurt, he is tiny compared to NBA players.
Agreed, he is small. Agreed, he wants to avoid injury so he coasts quite abit in the RS in terms of his playstyle vs the PS. But he doesn't NEED to be theatrical to avoid injuries, in fact he injured himself once with his flopping ways. He gets "theatrical" to highlight fouls or to flop, like many, bigger players have done. But this particular move?? I think its legit when he does it more than most. Like I said, I think its the bigger bullies or aggressive scorers who do that more often.

Chronz
11-16-2016, 03:53 PM
The fact is that right now most point guards are being fouled on every possession. CP3 DOES sell contact more that some other players ... but it is more often real contact than not. But right now the guards who run into defenders, including CP3, are being given the advantage by the refs.

Meh, not seeing any sort of proliferation of such abuse just yet. The NBA does a pretty good job of cleaning things up if they see a rule being abused. Like CP3 and KD used to get FT's for that whip/rip through move where you basically force contact till the NBA changed its ruling on that. Its still a foul but its no longer a shooting foul.

Scoots
11-16-2016, 05:10 PM
Lol. We should just get rid of foul rules all together.

Well, there is a foul rule where an offensive foul is called when the offensive player creates excessive contact with a defensive player, and traditionally if the offensive player creates the contact and the defender is just there as long as the contact isn't excessive then there is no foul called. That's the way God intended it to be :)

Hawkeye15
11-16-2016, 06:08 PM
Yeah but Kobe got people jumping/running, Paul Pierce would literally lose his dribble, throw up 2 fakes and then jump into you. Wade used to pump fake to death as well


Agreed, he is small. Agreed, he wants to avoid injury so he coasts quite abit in the RS in terms of his playstyle vs the PS. But he doesn't NEED to be theatrical to avoid injuries, in fact he injured himself once with his flopping ways. He gets "theatrical" to highlight fouls or to flop, like many, bigger players have done. But this particular move?? I think its legit when he does it more than most. Like I said, I think its the bigger bullies or aggressive scorers who do that more often.

reminds me of this kid I used to play against, where he would pick up his dribble, and pump fake forever. Like he was having sex with the air to try and get you to jump. Eventually he would shoot a fadeaway and damage the rim

Chronz
11-16-2016, 07:14 PM
reminds me of this kid I used to play against, where he would pick up his dribble, and pump fake forever. Like he was having sex with the air to try and get you to jump. Eventually he would shoot a fadeaway and damage the rim

Hes prolly the type to be all alone in the gym, practicing his favorite move: This One (http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/711807/dwyane-wade-pump-fake-h.gif)

dhopisthename
11-16-2016, 08:39 PM
I am glad I am not the only person this is really bothering. Its one thing when the defender jumps into you, but so often they go fairly straight up and the offensive player takes a step into you to create contact.I think it should be a no call or an offensive foul.

Chronz
11-16-2016, 09:12 PM
I am glad I am not the only person this is really bothering. Its one thing when the defender jumps into you, but so often they go fairly straight up and the offensive player takes a step into you to create contact.I think it should be a no call or an offensive foul.
Unless it's straight up, i don't see why it should be anything but a foul, even a small one. I like rewarding players skilled enough to get defenses jumping like that.

Scoots
11-16-2016, 10:45 PM
Unless it's straight up, i don't see why it should be anything but a foul, even a small one. I like rewarding players skilled enough to get defenses jumping like that.

We were talking about straight up. There are also calls going when a defender is just standing and the offensive player runs into them and flails awkardly and they get the call.

I'd rather have a no call most of the time when the offensive player creates contact. I hope nobody likes watching free throws.

JAZZNC
11-17-2016, 01:07 AM
reminds me of this kid I used to play against, where he would pick up his dribble, and pump fake forever. Like he was having sex with the air to try and get you to jump. Eventually he would shoot a fadeaway and damage the rim

I didn't realize we used to play against each other!!

Hawkeye15
11-17-2016, 10:36 AM
Hes prolly the type to be all alone in the gym, practicing his favorite move: This One (http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/711807/dwyane-wade-pump-fake-h.gif)

and.....fadeaway, rim damaged

Saddletramp
11-17-2016, 05:08 PM
Last night Westbrook was faced up with Eric Gordon when Westbrook lowered his shoulder, bumped Gordon (who was just standing there defending) moved back to his original position and drilled a jumper. Foul was on Gordon and for the life of me I don't know why.



I'm still just wondering "Wait, what? How is that? Huh? Wait, wha?"