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View Full Version : Hakeem Olajuwon Or Shaq?



More-Than-Most
11-05-2016, 07:43 PM
Shaq is my top 4 player ever.... I have Keem around 7th... That being said I am not sure how great Shaq would be in todays NBA where Hakeem might be the best player in basketball in todays NBA. I have been watching Hakeem Olajuwon Alot lately because of Embiid and I figured this would be an interesting debate... Shaq is the better player all time but would he fit this style of NBA where Hakeem would probably be able to play in any ERA of NBA basketball.

Sly Guy
11-05-2016, 07:48 PM
yikes, this is one I've always been afraid of answering. Cuz I think Hakeem has the better skill set, but Shaq was just plain unstoppable in what you wanted a big guy to be able to do.

I think I go with shaq in this one, cuz he was a guy who you had to throw two people at to stop at all times, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone picking the dream because of his better versatility. Or his ability to make more free throws.

Chronz
11-05-2016, 08:15 PM
I disagree, zones always bothered Hakeem more than Shaq, particularly in his youth when he wasn't an adept passer by any stretch. Shaq would thrive off the numerous dump off opportunities his presence provides and hes a FAR more gifted passer. Shaq's size alone would force many GM's into finding 7ft stiffs to just check him.

TheMightyHumph
11-06-2016, 02:27 AM
I disagree, zones always bothered Hakeem more than Shaq, particularly in his youth when he wasn't an adept passer by any stretch. Shaq would thrive off the numerous dump off opportunities his presence provides and hes a FAR more gifted passer. Shaq's size alone would force many GM's into finding 7ft stiffs to just check him.

"FAR more gifted passer"???

I have a problem with that statement.

Chronz
11-06-2016, 02:43 AM
"FAR more gifted passer"???

I have a problem with that statement.
Why is that? Maybe you're letting his peak performance alter his career long worth.

europagnpilgrim
11-06-2016, 04:44 AM
I would roll with the player who they called the modern day version of Big Dipper

Diesel, and if I were owner/coach I would make sure he stayed in LSU/Orlando condition/shape where he could get 30+pts and 20-30 boards to go along with 8-15 blocks like clockwork if focused, his dominant presence/freakish nature trumps free throws/skill set advantage The Dream had in my bball pineal gland

Shlumpledink
11-06-2016, 04:56 AM
This is one of my favorite debates because it pits a center who was a great physical specimen, with strength, size, and agility, who seemed to dominate the game with how difficult he was to stop versus a player who was a bit undersized but had a phenomenal skill set and was arguably the best two way bigman to ever play the game.

Its a fun exercise, but eventually devolves pretty quickly.


I read a blog post which makes an argument for Hakeem Olajuwon, and it is very interesting for some of the basketball heads out there to read. The guy also has a lot of other interesting arguments, but with a name like nobodytouchesjordan you kind of know what the outcome will be. He also posts some nice basketball videos on youtube

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/10/section-23-hakeem-olajuwon-greatest.html

ewing
11-06-2016, 06:48 AM
"FAR more gifted passer"???

I have a problem with that statement.

Shaq was a better passer

Chronz
11-06-2016, 11:39 AM
This is one of my favorite debates because it pits a center who was a great physical specimen, with strength, size, and agility, who seemed to dominate the game with how difficult he was to stop versus a player who was a bit undersized but had a phenomenal skill set and was arguably the best two way bigman to ever play the game.

Its a fun exercise, but eventually devolves pretty quickly.


I read a blog post which makes an argument for Hakeem Olajuwon, and it is very interesting for some of the basketball heads out there to read. The guy also has a lot of other interesting arguments, but with a name like nobodytouchesjordan you kind of know what the outcome will be. He also posts some nice basketball videos on youtube

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/10/section-23-hakeem-olajuwon-greatest.html

I've encountered him on youtube. Just a long winded blow hard who pretends to know stats and dismisses everything the nba does that goes against his beliefs.

Love his channel tho. His clips are VERY selective but what you gon do?

valade16
11-06-2016, 11:48 AM
Hakeem Olajuwon is my favorite player of all-time, but the answer is Shaq.

YAALREADYKNO
11-06-2016, 01:26 PM
Shaq

TheMightyHumph
11-06-2016, 01:30 PM
Why is that? Maybe you're letting his peak performance alter his career long worth.

Maybe that's what you are doing.

TheMightyHumph
11-06-2016, 01:31 PM
Shaq was a better passer

Far more 'gifted'?

Chronz
11-06-2016, 02:06 PM
Maybe that's what you are doing.
You confusing me

TheMightyHumph
11-06-2016, 02:54 PM
You confusing me

Didn't mean to.

nastynice
11-06-2016, 03:14 PM
I'm going Dream, all day err day!!

Shaq is more dominant at his particular dimension, Hakeem is more multi dimension.

LoveCaliFan
11-06-2016, 04:19 PM
The dream all day long. Mobile, could shoot, take ball up court and of course, "the dream shake," which he used to abuse Shaq in their matchups. Total dominance. But i'd take the "Admiral" over both as well. Better look his numbers up!

Shlumpledink
11-06-2016, 07:14 PM
I've encountered him on youtube. Just a long winded blow hard who pretends to know stats and dismisses everything the nba does that goes against his beliefs.

Love his channel tho. His clips are VERY selective but what you gon do?

Make your own! I'd love to see them.

I also would like to make some of my own. My personal collection of tapes is limited to Showtime Lakers playoff run videos. I don't even know what kind of condition they are. I do have a few from the Lakers 3peat days as well that I could try to upload and splice together something coherent.

ewing
11-07-2016, 12:03 AM
Far more 'gifted'?

yes

ewing
11-07-2016, 12:04 AM
I'm going Dream, all day err day!!

Shaq is more dominant at his particular dimension, Hakeem is more multi dimension.

that doesn't mean he is better

lol, please
11-07-2016, 12:12 AM
Shaq is my top 4 player ever.... I have Keem around 7th... That being said I am not sure how great Shaq would be in todays NBA where Hakeem might be the best player in basketball in todays NBA. I have been watching Hakeem Olajuwon Alot lately because of Embiid and I figured this would be an interesting debate... Shaq is the better player all time but would he fit this style of NBA where Hakeem would probably be able to play in any ERA of NBA basketball.

Shaq.

The era is irrelevant, when you are that dominant type big man you change the game like Curry would.

You make it sound like there is only one successful formula to win in the NBA or something. Any team outside of the Dubs would be feeding SHAQ pretty regularly in the paint. Literally no one in the league can stop him.

That said, I'd love to see the mismatches created by a squad of:

Curry
Klay
Durant
Green
SHAQ

basch152
11-07-2016, 12:13 AM
that doesn't mean he is better

But he is better so.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-07-2016, 12:46 AM
I'd pick Hakeem. Shaq would be even more dominant in the post but Hakeem would be dominant in the post as well and he has the added bonus of defense.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-07-2016, 12:47 AM
Shaq.

The era is irrelevant, when you are that dominant type big man you change the game like Curry would.

You make it sound like there is only one successful formula to win in the NBA or something. Any team outside of the Dubs would be feeding SHAQ pretty regularly in the paint. Literally no one in the league can stop him.

That said, I'd love to see the mismatches created by a squad of:

Curry
Klay
Durant
Green
SHAQ

Yes, let's add a prime Shaq to a team that already has 3 MVP and like 20 All NBA selections and 20 all star games between them.

KnicksorBust
11-07-2016, 08:42 AM
It drives me crazy that this is a debate. The most overrated player in PSD history is Hakeem.

valade16
11-07-2016, 08:44 AM
I think the Hakeem/Shaq argument shows the blind spot PSD has regarding two way players. Sometimes they get over-valued on here. Shaq should be the answer here.

valade16
11-07-2016, 08:45 AM
It drives me crazy that this is a debate. The most overrated player in PSD history is Hakeem.

Can you really be surprised though when the most popular refrain on PSD is two players are inherently more valuable?

ManningToTyree
11-07-2016, 11:40 AM
Im taking shaq but it's tough

KnicksorBust
11-07-2016, 12:23 PM
Can you really be surprised though when the most popular refrain on PSD is two players are inherently more valuable?

Are people acting like Shaq is not a 2-way player?

To me this is one of the more obvious hypothetical comparisons. Wilt or Shaq? Who knows. But we saw Shaq dominate. He dominated more than Hakeem. Even Baby Shaq he put up big numbers on the Dream. Prime Shaq would have outplayed him and did outplay all of his peers for a decade.

ewing
11-07-2016, 02:02 PM
Are people acting like Shaq is not a 2-way player?

To me this is one of the more obvious hypothetical comparisons. Wilt or Shaq? Who knows. But we saw Shaq dominate. He dominated more than Hakeem. Even Baby Shaq he put up big numbers on the Dream. Prime Shaq would have outplayed him and did outplay all of his peers for a decade.


This board prefers the swiss army knife to the bazooka

TheMightyHumph
11-07-2016, 02:10 PM
It drives me crazy that this is a debate. The most overrated player in PSD history is Hakeem.

You're still mad about the '94 Finals

TheMightyHumph
11-07-2016, 02:18 PM
Geez, seems that stats-wise, Hakeem did everything better in the playoffs than Shaq.

Hawkeye15
11-07-2016, 02:56 PM
Shaq. Dream, I overrate. I admit that. By the time his offense caught up, his defense was sliding. Shaq defined what defenses did.

PowerHouse
11-07-2016, 03:42 PM
It drives me crazy that this is a debate. The most overrated player in PSD history is Hakeem.

Not the most overrated at all.

But I agree with your point that Shaq was also a two way player. Shaq could play D, maybe not 200 steals/200 blocks in the same season type of D but he was not a poor defender by any means.

nastynice
11-07-2016, 04:34 PM
that doesn't mean he is better

oh, didn't even mean it like that, just like shaq being more dominant at his particular dimensions doesnt' mean he's better either

Just the diff approaches I guess. They're both top tier, prob comes down to what you would want out of your center

andy2518
11-07-2016, 07:21 PM
A very tough choice. If it was modern day, I would go with Dream because of his quickness and ability to get up and down the floor quickly. Also, the offense isn't mainly coming from the post anymore, rather from the perimeter, so that negates Shaq's advantage as a domination offensive force, which gives Hakeem the edge for being the better defender and his ability to run the floor.

Sly Guy
11-07-2016, 09:50 PM
This board prefers the swiss army knife to the bazooka

I lol'd.

TheMightyHumph
11-07-2016, 10:02 PM
This board prefers the swiss army knife to the bazooka

Shaq put up big numbers in a Finals that his team was SWEPT.

Yes, that's very impressive.

More-Than-Most
11-07-2016, 10:03 PM
Shaq. Dream, I overrate. I admit that. By the time his offense caught up, his defense was sliding. Shaq defined what defenses did.

Factor in when dream played and when Shaq played... Does that matter at all? Honest question really.

TheMightyHumph
11-07-2016, 10:05 PM
Factor in when dream played and when Shaq played... Does that matter at all? Honest question really.

Nothing matters.

More-Than-Most
11-07-2016, 10:05 PM
Also I think some are missing the Topic... Nobody is saying dream is better than Shaq... Its who is better in todays game.

mightybosstone
11-07-2016, 11:49 PM
I'm obviously biased, but in today's NBA, give me Dream. His ability to play out to 18 feet offensively or to the 3-point line defensively makes him a far more versatile player in today's league. The guy would be a nightmare to guard in a pick and roll, and impossible for today's big men to handle with his back to the basket. But what really gives him the edge, in my opinion, would be his lateral quickness. You know how Cleveland was able to beat Golden State last year because of Tristan Thompson's ability to switch on guards on the perimeter? Imagine Tristan Thompson on crack, and I think that would adequately describe Hakeem defensively. Combine that with arguably the most skilled low post player in NBA history, one of the best postseason performers of all time and an ability to actually hit a free throw late in a game, and I'll take Hakeem in today's NBA.

But then again, I'd take Hakeem straight up, period...

mightybosstone
11-07-2016, 11:50 PM
It drives me crazy that this is a debate. The most overrated player in PSD history is Hakeem.

Oh, I'd love to hear this argument. But then again, this is coming from the only non-Lakers fan on PSD who would put Kobe in his all-time top 5, so you'll excuse me if I take your all-time opinions with a grain of salt. ;)

ewing
11-07-2016, 11:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANvYB93u2g

R. Johnson#3
11-08-2016, 11:14 AM
Hakeem is one of the most talented players to ever play the game. Shaq is the most dominant player not named Wilt to ever play the game. It's really a tough one but I have to take Shaq.

hidalgo
11-08-2016, 12:12 PM
Shaquille was a tad better , but it is close

Hawkeye15
11-08-2016, 12:39 PM
Factor in when dream played and when Shaq played... Does that matter at all? Honest question really.

not when you factor in Dream was at his peak, and Shaq was a young pup. Go look at the numbers Shaq put up against peak Dream btw, he wasn't the reason his team lost. The Shaq from 98-2003 would have ripped Dream apart.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2016, 12:41 PM
Oh, I'd love to hear this argument. But then again, this is coming from the only non-Lakers fan on PSD who would put Kobe in his all-time top 5, so you'll excuse me if I take your all-time opinions with a grain of salt. ;)

On the flip side of that, as a non-Rockets fan (or should I say, indifferent) over the years, my most frustrating conversations with my friends in Houston, was over Dream.

Houston fans overrate him. Hell, I even do, I have him higher than he really ought to be. After wearing my best friend down over the course of years, he finally agreed, that peak Shaq is just better.

When we start asking, who is better during a certain time period, when talking about the 20 greatest to ever play, I really don't buy that a different time period does anything to hurt how good they were.

While Dream fits the mold of the do it all big today, show me one team that can handle the pure physical force of Shaq today. He would destroy this small ball league. Good luck trying to go small against Shaq.

JAZZNC
11-08-2016, 12:52 PM
On the flip side of that, as a non-Rockets fan (or should I say, indifferent) over the years, my most frustrating conversations with my friends in Houston, was over Dream.

Houston fans overrate him. Hell, I even do, I have him higher than he really ought to be. After wearing my best friend down over the course of years, he finally agreed, that peak Shaq is just better.

When we start asking, who is better during a certain time period, when talking about the 20 greatest to ever play, I really don't buy that a different time period does anything to hurt how good they were.

While Dream fits the mold of the do it all big today, show me one team that can handle the pure physical force of Shaq today. He would destroy this small ball league. Good luck trying to go small against Shaq.
Yeah, Draymond Green ain't guarding THAT center. If Shaq was in the league today small ball wouldn't be a thing...everybody would be trying to go as big as possible just to try and match up with Shaq. In a league with such terrible big men he would be absolutely unstoppable, especially since almost no centers these days could make him work on defense. I also get the impression that people think Shaq was like Harden on defense, he was no slouch especially when he was engaged. I would go with the Big Aristotle 10 out of 10 times no matter the decade. You are guaranteed titles with him. I don't feel the same about Dream.

Miltstar
11-08-2016, 12:59 PM
I don't see why people think Shaq wouldn't play well in this NBA. Imagine him on Golden State with Curry/Klay, dump it in... kick it out... dump it in... kick it out

Hawkeye15
11-08-2016, 12:59 PM
Yeah, Draymond Green ain't guarding THAT center. If Shaq was in the league today small ball wouldn't be a thing...everybody would be trying to go as big as possible just to try and match up with Shaq. In a league with such terrible big men he would be absolutely unstoppable, especially since almost no centers these days could make him work on defense. I also get the impression that people think Shaq was like Harden on defense, he was no slouch especially when he was engaged. I would go with the Big Aristotle 10 out of 10 times no matter the decade. You are guaranteed titles with him. I don't feel the same about Dream.

the most intimidating rim protectors are probably DJ, and Gobert. Shaq would destroy either one of them with a shoulder blade. Again, teams would be forced to load up on his side of the floor, and play hack a Shaq.

He changes defenses. He defines them. While I love Dream, I can't see a rational argument for him, at any point in basketball.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2016, 01:00 PM
I don't see why people think Shaq wouldn't play well in this NBA. Imagine him on Golden State with Curry/Klay, dump it in... kick it out... dump it in... kick it out

or imagine Kerr's decisions on who to play, when Shaq rolls into town....GS would give up 45/18 to him

blahblahyoutoo
11-08-2016, 09:55 PM
shaq is a bigger dwight. all size, no bball skill.

JAZZNC
11-08-2016, 10:39 PM
shaq is a bigger dwight. all size, no bball skill.

You obviously know nothing about Shaq. Much more basketball skill people want to give him credit for, I just don't get it.

IKnowHoops
11-08-2016, 11:46 PM
The dream all day long. Mobile, could shoot, take ball up court and of course, "the dream shake," which he used to abuse Shaq in their matchups. Total dominance. But i'd take the "Admiral" over both as well. Better look his numbers up!

:cheers:

IKnowHoops
11-08-2016, 11:52 PM
Shaq though. Shaq is a force of nature on the court. Force of nature>>Highly skilled

FlashBolt
11-09-2016, 06:50 PM
Shaq's skill is overstated. He was just a physical behemoth of a player. There's no arguing his skill wasn't legendary. That's another thing that they tried to use against LeBron regarding his inability to play basketball if not for his athleticism. I think we all know that LeBron would have been Magic Johnson 2.0 if not for his athleticism. A player capable of averaging 22/10/10 would have been his career. With that being said, I'd take Shaq if you're talking about who I would start a team with but there is no question that under the system played today, Hakeem would be a force. He wouldn't complain about not getting the ball the way Shaq did and still does. I mean, this is a guy who thought he was the reason Wade won in 2006 and also, still thinks Nash robbed him of two MVP's. Outside of Shaq's short dominance in 99-2003, I can't see why anyone would take him over Hakeem.

mightybosstone
11-09-2016, 07:10 PM
On the flip side of that, as a non-Rockets fan (or should I say, indifferent) over the years, my most frustrating conversations with my friends in Houston, was over Dream.

Houston fans overrate him. Hell, I even do, I have him higher than he really ought to be. After wearing my best friend down over the course of years, he finally agreed, that peak Shaq is just better.

When we start asking, who is better during a certain time period, when talking about the 20 greatest to ever play, I really don't buy that a different time period does anything to hurt how good they were.

While Dream fits the mold of the do it all big today, show me one team that can handle the pure physical force of Shaq today. He would destroy this small ball league. Good luck trying to go small against Shaq.

I think it depends on what conversation you're having. If you force me to pick who had the better career or who I might rank on an all-time list, I probably give Shaq the slightest of edges. He was more productive, more efficient and just won more.

But that doesn't necessarily translate to who I thought was the better basketball player or who I would rather have on my team. IMO, if I'm building a team, Shaq's production advantage doesn't necessarily trump Hakeem's significant advantage on defense. The man was the best defensive center in an era of phenomenal defensive centers and probably one of the five greatest defensive centers in the history of the NBA.

Combine that with just a far more versatile offensive game, and if I'm building a team, I would just personally rather have Dream. I don't really see this as a right or wrong answer. And I don't really think it's a matter of underrating or overrating players.

FlashBolt
11-09-2016, 07:48 PM
Does anyone care about FT's here? Because I believe Hakeem is a much better FT shooter than Shaq.

basch152
11-10-2016, 09:16 AM
I hate the "won morr" argument too.

One player played with wade and kobe, the other played with an aging drexler and kenny smith...

Hawkeye15
11-10-2016, 10:36 AM
I think it depends on what conversation you're having. If you force me to pick who had the better career or who I might rank on an all-time list, I probably give Shaq the slightest of edges. He was more productive, more efficient and just won more.

But that doesn't necessarily translate to who I thought was the better basketball player or who I would rather have on my team. IMO, if I'm building a team, Shaq's production advantage doesn't necessarily trump Hakeem's significant advantage on defense. The man was the best defensive center in an era of phenomenal defensive centers and probably one of the five greatest defensive centers in the history of the NBA.

Combine that with just a far more versatile offensive game, and if I'm building a team, I would just personally rather have Dream. I don't really see this as a right or wrong answer. And I don't really think it's a matter of underrating or overrating players.

the problem with Dream was, his absolute peak, his defensive dominance was no longer what it was earlier in his career, when his offense was far behind. By the time his offense caught up, he wasn't the defender he was.

Shaq bends, molds, and defines defenses. He gives you the better opportunity to win. He takes so much attention away from other offensive players. It doesn't matter what era you stick him in. He bends the defense at will.

I am trying my best not to lump you into Houston fans, but my 19 years down there, many of them were spent dealing with Dream homers that overrated him. Great player. I even overrate him. But he is well behind Shaq as far as a player/impact at the end of the day.

ewing
11-10-2016, 10:59 AM
I think it depends on what conversation you're having. If you force me to pick who had the better career or who I might rank on an all-time list, I probably give Shaq the slightest of edges. He was more productive, more efficient and just won more.

But that doesn't necessarily translate to who I thought was the better basketball player or who I would rather have on my team. IMO, if I'm building a team, Shaq's production advantage doesn't necessarily trump Hakeem's significant advantage on defense. The man was the best defensive center in an era of phenomenal defensive centers and probably one of the five greatest defensive centers in the history of the NBA.

Combine that with just a far more versatile offensive game, and if I'm building a team, I would just personally rather have Dream. I don't really see this as a right or wrong answer. And I don't really think it's a matter of underrating or overrating players.

What makes you think he was the best defensive center in his era? You say that like its a fact. I don't think it is at all. In fact i think he took a lot of time off on that end.

mightybosstone
11-10-2016, 11:45 AM
What makes you think he was the best defensive center in his era? You say that like its a fact. I don't think it is at all. In fact i think he took a lot of time off on that end.

I mean, in terms of actual visible evidence, I can only attest to what I saw as a kid watching him play. But if you look at statistics that measure defensive production and accolades, he clearly stands out as the most obvious candidate.

He won more DPOY awards among those centers. He led the league in Defensive rating five consecutive years and was in the top five four more times, he led the league in DWS four times and was top five seven more times and led the league in DBPM three times with six more seasons in the top five. He was top 3 in blocks per game 10 times in his career (in addition to being the all-time blocks leader), top 5 in rebounds per game five times and top 10 in steals per game four times.

Ewing, Robinson and Mourning's numbers just don't stack up to Hakeem's. If you throw Mutombo into the mix, despite him coming into the league later, even his individual defensive seasons statistically fail to come close to Dream.

If you're looking for more evidence, look how all-time great centers performed against Hakeem in big series. As your name suggests, I'm guessing you're making a case for Ewing. Go back and look at Ewing's numbers in that 94 championship series against Dream. They were historically awful. Look at Robinson's numbers in that 95 series that Hakeem dominated—decent, but a huge dropoff from his regular season production that year. Shaq admittedly played pretty well that 95 championship series, but he also turned the ball over more than five times per game in that series, including six turnovers in the clinching Game 4 that Dream dominated.

FlashBolt
11-10-2016, 11:58 AM
I hate the "won morr" argument too.

One player played with wade and kobe, the other played with an aging drexler and kenny smith...

And that's not a slight on Shaq either. He was legendary but he definitely only contributed to three rings as the top dude.

lol, please
11-10-2016, 07:53 PM
Shaq's skill is overstated. He was just a physical behemoth of a player. There's no arguing his skill wasn't legendary. That's another thing that they tried to use against LeBron regarding his inability to play basketball if not for his athleticism. I think we all know that LeBron would have been Magic Johnson 2.0 if not for his athleticism. A player capable of averaging 22/10/10 would have been his career. With that being said, I'd take Shaq if you're talking about who I would start a team with but there is no question that under the system played today, Hakeem would be a force. He wouldn't complain about not getting the ball the way Shaq did and still does. I mean, this is a guy who thought he was the reason Wade won in 2006 and also, still thinks Nash robbed him of two MVP's. Outside of Shaq's short dominance in 99-2003, I can't see why anyone would take him over Hakeem.
I think you are underrating Shaq's skill here.

Dream might dominate in today's NBA, but that would only be against teams that didn't have SHAQ in the same league - if we hypothetically insert both of them in their primes on different teams, the team with SHAQ would beat the team with Dream assuming the surrounding rosters are fairly equal and comparable to make things fair.

As Hawkeye15 has been making a case for, SHAQ would dominate in any era and ultimately he gives you more of an opportunity to win, thus he is the right answer here.

valade16
11-11-2016, 11:31 AM
Hakeem is a better two way player. But his defense and his offensive impacts combined don't equal Shaq's. Shaq changes the game and defense on a fundamental level. Hakeem was more versatile offensively, and yet Shaq with his 1-2 moves and terrible FT shooting was always the vastly more efficient player on that end.

Miltstar
11-11-2016, 12:16 PM
You obviously know nothing about Shaq. Much more basketball skill people want to give him credit for, I just don't get it.

ya man, if there was any knock on him it was a lack of work ethic, not skill.

mrblisterdundee
11-11-2016, 02:47 PM
Shaq is the most physically dominant center ever. He simply overpowers people.

europagnpilgrim
11-11-2016, 03:08 PM
And that's not a slight on Shaq either. He was legendary but he definitely only contributed to three rings as the top dude.

He only won 4 rings so only contributing to 3 makes him pretty dominant, and as soon as he went to the Heat they went from decent playoff team to instant title contenders, and I don't know any guy who gets double teamed while leading up to a 4th ring doesn't count as contributing, I don't care how dumb of a strategy it was by Avery but he was doubling a aged out of prime Shaq

Chronz
11-11-2016, 03:17 PM
I feel like people forget that Shaq was one of the greatest paint deterrents when motivated, Phil said he was as good as any defender when he was locked in. He was an elite 2-way player in his own right and come playoffs, thats the Shaq you got.

His footwork was crazy for a guy his size, I know Dream outplayed a baby Shaq but baby Shaq had a better showing (IMO) than baby Dream did in his first Finals. Both had similar problems with turnovers but Dream was tasked with much less of the playmaking back then and still struggled with his floor game. Shaq utterly killed Dream in their next playoff showing when Dream was still an All-NBA calibre center but for some reason that doesn't matter even though Shaq was killing quality teams like Detroit in the ECF around the same stage of his career.

europagnpilgrim
11-11-2016, 03:20 PM
Shaq is the most physically dominant center ever. He simply overpowers people.

2nd most physically dominant, he is the step- son of Big Dipper

they called Shaq a modern day version for a reason but let me know when Shaq was breaking big men toes with a dunk or dislocating shoulders from blocking shots or lifting 280lb men around like a cup of coffee then we can re discuss this topic, Dipper held back in fear of killing someone on the court/breaking arms with dunks, literally

he played with finesse for those reasons and could deadlift close to 650lbs, nobody can come close to matching his physical dominance, Shaq is a distant second

ewing
11-12-2016, 03:54 PM
I mean, in terms of actual visible evidence, I can only attest to what I saw as a kid watching him play. But if you look at statistics that measure defensive production and accolades, he clearly stands out as the most obvious candidate.

He won more DPOY awards among those centers. He led the league in Defensive rating five consecutive years and was in the top five four more times, he led the league in DWS four times and was top five seven more times and led the league in DBPM three times with six more seasons in the top five. He was top 3 in blocks per game 10 times in his career (in addition to being the all-time blocks leader), top 5 in rebounds per game five times and top 10 in steals per game four times.

Ewing, Robinson and Mourning's numbers just don't stack up to Hakeem's. If you throw Mutombo into the mix, despite him coming into the league later, even his individual defensive seasons statistically fail to come close to Dream.

If you're looking for more evidence, look how all-time great centers performed against Hakeem in big series. As your name suggests, I'm guessing you're making a case for Ewing. Go back and look at Ewing's numbers in that 94 championship series against Dream. They were historically awful. Look at Robinson's numbers in that 95 series that Hakeem dominated—decent, but a huge dropoff from his regular season production that year. Shaq admittedly played pretty well that 95 championship series, but he also turned the ball over more than five times per game in that series, including six turnovers in the clinching Game 4 that Dream dominated.


when locked in on that end he very well might have been the best individual defender at the center. Of course that means something b/c some games are more important then others. I do think in the regular season he took time off on that end. That's not a statement you can make about Mourning or Ewing. In fact they demanded the opposite of everyone on there team. Again, i don't think you can say that of Hakeem. I admit I give little weight to these individual defensive metrics. If you want you can tell me why i should but to me they seem to be able to tell that someone was good but does not give you the ability to rank players.

europagnpilgrim
11-12-2016, 11:26 PM
when locked in on that end he very well might have been the best individual defender at the center. Of course that means something b/c some games are more important then others. I do think in the regular season he took time off on that end. That's not a statement you can make about Mourning or Ewing. In fact they demanded the opposite of everyone on there team. Again, i don't think you can say that of Hakeem. I admit I give little weight to these individual defensive metrics. If you want you can tell me why i should but to me they seem to be able to tell that someone was good but does not give you the ability to rank players.

I give little weight to metrics overall as a whole because players are built on what the showcase individually and given what they have to work with as a whole team wise

players like Ewing/Mourning and even Mutombo were defensive mind heavy players while the first two got better offensively during nba career but I knew they were more defense strong than offense, though Ewing panned out to be a decent dual threat, when locked in and motivated Shaq was a two way monster, but was much more offensively dominant so it took away what he could do defensively since the game is based on scoring/entertainment ever since that phenom from way back entered the league in the 60' draft

Dipper is the best defensive Center ever but he is so known for his scoring dominance that it gets over looked, even though I don't know how a guy who can get 25 blocks in many games gets overlooked and couldn't be pushed around at all and was mobile enough to switch on guards during pick and rolls gets overlooked but some would say Russell was a better defender but that was his bread and butter and not scoring even though I feel Russell could have averaged 24ppg for his career had he wanted to, Russell was every bit the athlete of Dipper he just didn't have the 7foot plus height nor the freak innate Giant strength

I just tend to think Shaq scared the defense more than Hakeem and he was known at times being triple teamed before the ball crossed half court, that in itself destroys your defense strategy alone and opens up the floor for others at the upmost highest level, something metrics will never be able to showcase

Metrics/PER are the trend/fad in todays game, which I have no problem with it but it doesn't sway my knowledge because I know who are the dominant ones, rather the PER shows it or not

Shlumpledink
11-12-2016, 11:51 PM
2nd most physically dominant, he is the step- son of Big Dipper

they called Shaq a modern day version for a reason but let me know when Shaq was breaking big men toes with a dunk or dislocating shoulders from blocking shots or lifting 280lb men around like a cup of coffee then we can re discuss this topic, Dipper held back in fear of killing someone on the court/breaking arms with dunks, literally

he played with finesse for those reasons and could deadlift close to 650lbs, nobody can come close to matching his physical dominance, Shaq is a distant second

I heard he ate 37 bagels in one sitting. He could dunk from the top of the key and make a bounce pass that bounced so low that to the naked eye it looked like it rolled, it was only with the advent of electron microscopes that we were able to see the bounce.

When he opened pill bottles he didn't even push down and turn, he just pulled the lid off. He ate full cans of spinach like popeye.

When he was a kid his jealous step mom tried to kill him by putting poisonous snakes into his crib, legend says he strangled both of them in his crib.

ewing
11-13-2016, 12:22 AM
I heard he ate 37 bagels in one sitting. He could dunk from the top of the key and make a bounce pass that bounced so low that to the naked eye it looked like it rolled, it was only with the advent of electron microscopes that we were able to see the bounce.

When he opened pill bottles he didn't even push down and turn, he just pulled the lid off. He ate full cans of spinach like popeye.

When he was a kid his jealous step mom tried to kill him by putting poisonous snakes into his crib, legend says he strangled both of them in his crib.


Wilt was pretty serious

europagnpilgrim
11-13-2016, 01:55 AM
I heard he ate 37 bagels in one sitting. He could dunk from the top of the key and make a bounce pass that bounced so low that to the naked eye it looked like it rolled, it was only with the advent of electron microscopes that we were able to see the bounce.

When he opened pill bottles he didn't even push down and turn, he just pulled the lid off. He ate full cans of spinach like popeye.

When he was a kid his jealous step mom tried to kill him by putting poisonous snakes into his crib, legend says he strangled both of them in his crib.

he also was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with his bare hands and had the claw scratches to prove it

they outlawed him dunking his free throws in college, he use to dunk on 12ft rims in practice at KU

He lifted Arnold(Terminator) with one arm like he was a fly, in Arnold's words not mines

like I said its not even close who was the most physical dominant specimen to ever set foot on the hardwood, almost comical proportions

he made a guy quit playing college ball and to pursue a pro career after he got destroyed by the Dipper while Dipper was still in HS

Lanier(former nba player) said his greatest accomplishment was when Dipper lifted him and moved him like a cup of coffee, and Lanier played around 280-290lbs

“I once was sitting on the steel fence at Rosecrans taking in the Rosecrans open with Wilt and several cohorts back in the late 70’s.

A player from Muscle Beach was standing beneath us and told us he was going to walk around so he could come join us up on the rail.

Wilty (Wilt Chamberlain) told him there was “no reason to walk,”and reached down and picked him up by one arm and hoisted him over the bar.

Mike weighed about 240lbs! I have been around some athletes in my day. But nobody and I mean nobody was stronger that Wilty.



The greatest play I’ve ever seen was one of the last games of the 1966-67 season and were playing Baltimore. We [Philadelphia] were going for the best record in NBA history. There was a play earlier in the game where Gus Johnson had dunked one over Wilt. Gus was a very strong player. I weighed 220 pounds, and with one hand Gus could push me out of the lane.

The man was a physical specimen [6-foot-6, 230 pounds], all muscle. He loved to dunk and was a very colorful player. When he slammed it on Wilt, he really threw it down, and you could tell that Wilt didn’t like it one bit. Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was goin to dunk on Wilt–again. Gus cupped the ball and took off–he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball–cleanly!

Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball. Gus was flattened and they carried him out. It turned out that Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot.”



Arnold Schwarzenegger

"I remember he lifted me up with one arm like nothing. I remember Andre the Giant, professional wrestler he was a very good friend of mine, and Wilt Chamberlain and I both went out to dinner several times in Mexico City when we did the movie down there, the Conan Movie, and both of them would just pick me up over them, they were just joking about who could pick me up and make me look like lighter, like I was a fly, because they were so powerful"




From former athlete Linda Huey's (close friend of Wilt's) blog: "It was a long day of driving and boating and skiing, and when we got back to the house, Wilt totally took my breath away with an incredible feat of strength. Instead of going through the difficult maneuver of backing the boat trailer into the carport, Wilt simply unhitched the boat from his station wagon and single-handedly pushed that heavy boat and trailer into place.


NBA Public Relations Director Haskell Cohen tells a story about how his car tire needed changed when Wilt was a teenager working as a Bellhop at Kutshers and he didn't have a jack and the teenage Wilt Chamberlain proceeded to lift the back end of the car so the guy could change it.

some of these stories are borderline like fairytales when you first hear them, what a phenom/superman athlete

IKnowHoops
11-14-2016, 04:14 PM
he also was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with his bare hands and had the claw scratches to prove it

they outlawed him dunking his free throws in college, he use to dunk on 12ft rims in practice at KU

He lifted Arnold(Terminator) with one arm like he was a fly, in Arnold's words not mines

like I said its not even close who was the most physical dominant specimen to ever set foot on the hardwood, almost comical proportions

he made a guy quit playing college ball and to pursue a pro career after he got destroyed by the Dipper while Dipper was still in HS

Lanier(former nba player) said his greatest accomplishment was when Dipper lifted him and moved him like a cup of coffee, and Lanier played around 280-290lbs

“I once was sitting on the steel fence at Rosecrans taking in the Rosecrans open with Wilt and several cohorts back in the late 70’s.

A player from Muscle Beach was standing beneath us and told us he was going to walk around so he could come join us up on the rail.

Wilty (Wilt Chamberlain) told him there was “no reason to walk,”and reached down and picked him up by one arm and hoisted him over the bar.

Mike weighed about 240lbs! I have been around some athletes in my day. But nobody and I mean nobody was stronger that Wilty.



The greatest play I’ve ever seen was one of the last games of the 1966-67 season and were playing Baltimore. We [Philadelphia] were going for the best record in NBA history. There was a play earlier in the game where Gus Johnson had dunked one over Wilt. Gus was a very strong player. I weighed 220 pounds, and with one hand Gus could push me out of the lane.

The man was a physical specimen [6-foot-6, 230 pounds], all muscle. He loved to dunk and was a very colorful player. When he slammed it on Wilt, he really threw it down, and you could tell that Wilt didn’t like it one bit. Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was goin to dunk on Wilt–again. Gus cupped the ball and took off–he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball–cleanly!

Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball. Gus was flattened and they carried him out. It turned out that Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot.”



Arnold Schwarzenegger

"I remember he lifted me up with one arm like nothing. I remember Andre the Giant, professional wrestler he was a very good friend of mine, and Wilt Chamberlain and I both went out to dinner several times in Mexico City when we did the movie down there, the Conan Movie, and both of them would just pick me up over them, they were just joking about who could pick me up and make me look like lighter, like I was a fly, because they were so powerful"




From former athlete Linda Huey's (close friend of Wilt's) blog: "It was a long day of driving and boating and skiing, and when we got back to the house, Wilt totally took my breath away with an incredible feat of strength. Instead of going through the difficult maneuver of backing the boat trailer into the carport, Wilt simply unhitched the boat from his station wagon and single-handedly pushed that heavy boat and trailer into place.


NBA Public Relations Director Haskell Cohen tells a story about how his car tire needed changed when Wilt was a teenager working as a Bellhop at Kutshers and he didn't have a jack and the teenage Wilt Chamberlain proceeded to lift the back end of the car so the guy could change it.

some of these stories are borderline like fairytales when you first hear them, what a phenom/superman athlete

Did he ever pull the entire hoop down? Cause Shaq did, and we actually have footage so. If it ain't on film, I gotta pass.

The rims they made back then were so flimsy and weak. Gotta kind of question his power considering how much stronger the NBA has made the Rims and hoop based off hard dunking in the 90's aka SHAQ.

You would of thought an era of Wilt would of gotten those rims perfected. But soon after Darrell Dawkins was shattering backboards.

europagnpilgrim
11-14-2016, 04:53 PM
Did he ever pull the entire hoop down? Cause Shaq did, and we actually have footage so. If it ain't on film, I gotta pass.

The rims they made back then were so flimsy and weak. Gotta kind of question his power considering how much stronger the NBA has made the Rims and hoop based off hard dunking in the 90's aka SHAQ.

You would of thought an era of Wilt would of gotten those rims perfected. But soon after Darrell Dawkins was shattering backboards.

We are talking about a player who held back his true strength on the court, if he could lift a man all muscle 250lbs with one arm like a fly then I am sure if he wanted to pull off a rim or 100 he could have done it with relative ease

its been many cases of people back then speaking on how he would have the rim/pole shaking well after he dunked the ball with light force(15minutes later from one story), he just held back because he knew the damage he could do

he almost dislocated Shaq's shoulder from a friendly handshake and was pushing 60yrs of age, go look it up if you haven't seen it, a young Dipper would have easily pulled a rim down since he could push heavy boats and trailers by himself

Dawkins and Shaq were not holding back, they went full force, Dipper was a gentle Giant but could turn on the power like no other, he played a finesse game back then because had he went full Shaq mode then he would have literally killed players back then with a shoulder dip at full throttle

he had true Giant strength, as a teenager he was lifting the back of cars so people could change a tire, that isn't enough proof of his super human strength to rip a rim down had he wanted to like he did when he grabbed a quarter 13ft high top of backboard?

his teammate back in the day use to ask him why doesn't he get mad or try to retaliate because of the hard non sense fouls he would receive and Dipper said he didn't want to go to jail for killing a player on the court, he had no problem ripping a rim down but what would that have proved back then since we all know he could deadlift almost 650lbs and jerk almost 400lbs? Shaq came into the league at 280lbs, he would have literally picked Shaq up on sat him on top of the rim just like he did Lanier who was the same weight and did it like it was a cup of coffee, in Lanier's words

go and watch how he had the rims rattling from half *** dunking the ball with very little effort/power, its plenty of those for you to see if he truly wanted to break those flimsy and weak rims back then, he knew they were flimsy and weak so why kill the flow of the game when the entire league/world know you can do it

he is considered by many to be the strongest athlete to ever live, that includes all sports from weight lifting to nba/nfl etc.

IKnowHoops
11-14-2016, 07:04 PM
We are talking about a player who held back his true strength on the court, if he could lift a man all muscle 250lbs with one arm like a fly then I am sure if he wanted to pull off a rim or 100 he could have done it with relative ease

its been many cases of people back then speaking on how he would have the rim/pole shaking well after he dunked the ball with light force(15minutes later from one story), he just held back because he knew the damage he could do

he almost dislocated Shaq's shoulder from a friendly handshake and was pushing 60yrs of age, go look it up if you haven't seen it, a young Dipper would have easily pulled a rim down since he could push heavy boats and trailers by himself

Dawkins and Shaq were not holding back, they went full force, Dipper was a gentle Giant but could turn on the power like no other, he played a finesse game back then because had he went full Shaq mode then he would have literally killed players back then with a shoulder dip at full throttle

he had true Giant strength, as a teenager he was lifting the back of cars so people could change a tire, that isn't enough proof of his super human strength to rip a rim down had he wanted to like he did when he grabbed a quarter 13ft high top of backboard?

his teammate back in the day use to ask him why doesn't he get mad or try to retaliate because of the hard non sense fouls he would receive and Dipper said he didn't want to go to jail for killing a player on the court, he had no problem ripping a rim down but what would that have proved back then since we all know he could deadlift almost 650lbs and jerk almost 400lbs? Shaq came into the league at 280lbs, he would have literally picked Shaq up on sat him on top of the rim just like he did Lanier who was the same weight and did it like it was a cup of coffee, in Lanier's words

go and watch how he had the rims rattling from half *** dunking the ball with very little effort/power, its plenty of those for you to see if he truly wanted to break those flimsy and weak rims back then, he knew they were flimsy and weak so why kill the flow of the game when the entire league/world know you can do it

he is considered by many to be the strongest athlete to ever live, that includes all sports from weight lifting to nba/nfl etc.


I'm sorry, I am not buying these stories. Especially the one where he was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with his bare hands...lmao!!!

Let me explain why
1. A mountain lion attack is super rare
2. A mountain lion will usually only attack small people if at all
3. Killing a mountain lion with bare hands is something big male silverback gorillas can't do to leopards. (Leopards and Puma are of similar size, much closer than Wilt and Silverback.
4. The scratches to prove it? Was his entire front ripped to shreads, if not, then he doesn't.
5. Just not humanly possible.

If you can prove he killed a Puma with bare hands, then I buy that Wilt was the greatest athlete of all time and stronger than Shaq

Chronz
11-14-2016, 07:20 PM
LOL, I dont know how its possible but you guys have made me hate both sides of a Wilt argument.

Shlumpledink
11-14-2016, 07:27 PM
I'm sorry, I am not buying these stories. Especially the one where he was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with his bare hands...lmao!!!

Let me explain why
1. A mountain lion attack is super rare
2. A mountain lion will usually only attack small people if at all
3. Killing a mountain lion with bare hands is something big male silverback gorillas can't do to leopards. (Leopards and Puma are of similar size, much closer than Wilt and Silverback.
4. The scratches to prove it? Was his entire front ripped to shreads, if not, then he doesn't.
5. Just not humanly possible.

If you can prove he killed a Puma with bare hands, then I buy that Wilt was the greatest athlete of all time and stronger than Shaq

BUT HE HAD SCRATCHES! Scratches are unique to mountain lions.

The hyperbole and mystique of Wilt knows no bounds. If you just read about him and take every word as gospel, this man is basically Hercules.

europagnpilgrim
11-15-2016, 10:30 AM
I'm sorry, I am not buying these stories. Especially the one where he was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with his bare hands...lmao!!!

Let me explain why
1. A mountain lion attack is super rare
2. A mountain lion will usually only attack small people if at all
3. Killing a mountain lion with bare hands is something big male silverback gorillas can't do to leopards. (Leopards and Puma are of similar size, much closer than Wilt and Silverback.
4. The scratches to prove it? Was his entire front ripped to shreads, if not, then he doesn't.
5. Just not humanly possible.

If you can prove he killed a Puma with bare hands, then I buy that Wilt was the greatest athlete of all time and stronger than Shaq


flipside to this is if you can prove he didn't then I will believe Shaq was stronger because I have never heard nobody speak of Shaq having this unreal super human strength outside of him shattering a few rims, which would qualify a lot of players as the strongest just because they shattered/broke the rim

of course a lion attack is rare, which is why it probably happened only once in his life

you don't have to buy these stories because I am not selling stories, just what was said from those who witnessed his superhuman feats, rather they are true or not depends on what you believe in todays world when you hear/read stories, same ish different toilet

its not possible to do stuff he did because you haven't seen it replicated so of course you would be befuddled as you are

adult pumas are not that big, especially compared to the big lion/cats and we never know what happened it was just a story thrown out there where he had the proof to back his story up, the puma may have been super starved out so you never know what a wildlife animal may do, and I am not buying your silverback story since they are one of the strongest land animals in the world, 2x as strong as the worlds strongest man so if he ever did get into it with a Leopard it could get ugly, and they could easily kill a Leopard with bare hands, the hard part would be actually getting a hold of one since I don't think neither would attack the other at full adult life

Dipper was a actual Giant so its not shocking that he could do something like that, he was lifting back end of cars as a teenager

now refute the rest of what I wrote earlier post, not just the lion attack, but I am sure you went and saw the footage of what others had to say and probably still not buying when you hear it from the sources mouth



In the early 1960's, Wilt Chamberlain said he was attacked by a mountain lion.

He told his good friend Cal Ramsey that he was alone in the country when the mountain lion leaped from rocks onto him.

Wilt said, "I killed him with my bare hands."

Ramsey expressed his doubts. To prove his point, Wilt pulled back his shirt to reveal several long scars on his shoulder, which Ramsey admitted looked like claw marks

europagnpilgrim
11-15-2016, 10:33 AM
BUT HE HAD SCRATCHES! Scratches are unique to mountain lions.

The hyperbole and mystique of Wilt knows no bounds. If you just read about him and take every word as gospel, this man is basically Hercules.

Same thing with Jordan, if you just follow the media/sportscenter you would think he started the nba in 91' first title, not in the 40's where it originally started

if you take the stories of players/guys who were actually around him back then it carries a lot more weight, just as a story from Pippen/Grant/Cartwright/Phil/Rodman etc carry more weight if told about Jordan, you guys are so amazed at the stories it boggles the mind

europagnpilgrim
11-15-2016, 10:36 AM
LOL, I dont know how its possible but you guys have made me hate both sides of a Wilt argument.

guess that makes you psd proof that anything is possible, its not really an argument to me since those close or who hung out with him wouldn't have anything to gain by speaking of the times hanging around the Dipper, its just a lot of uneducated folks are butt hurt after hearing such stories from a phenom way ahead of his time, best athlete ever in any sport

ewing
11-16-2016, 07:51 AM
Did he ever pull the entire hoop down? Cause Shaq did, and we actually have footage so. If it ain't on film, I gotta pass.

The rims they made back then were so flimsy and weak. Gotta kind of question his power considering how much stronger the NBA has made the Rims and hoop based off hard dunking in the 90's aka SHAQ.

You would of thought an era of Wilt would of gotten those rims perfected. But soon after Darrell Dawkins was shattering backboards.

what do you know about the rims back then?

IKnowHoops
11-16-2016, 11:49 AM
flipside to this is if you can prove he didn't then I will believe Shaq was stronger because I have never heard nobody speak of Shaq having this unreal super human strength outside of him shattering a few rims, which would qualify a lot of players as the strongest just because they shattered/broke the rim

of course a lion attack is rare, which is why it probably happened only once in his life

you don't have to buy these stories because I am not selling stories, just what was said from those who witnessed his superhuman feats, rather they are true or not depends on what you believe in todays world when you hear/read stories, same ish different toilet

its not possible to do stuff he did because you haven't seen it replicated so of course you would be befuddled as you are

adult pumas are not that big, especially compared to the big lion/cats and we never know what happened it was just a story thrown out there where he had the proof to back his story up, the puma may have been super starved out so you never know what a wildlife animal may do, and I am not buying your silverback story since they are one of the strongest land animals in the world, 2x as strong as the worlds strongest man so if he ever did get into it with a Leopard it could get ugly, and they could easily kill a Leopard with bare hands, the hard part would be actually getting a hold of one since I don't think neither would attack the other at full adult life

Dipper was a actual Giant so its not shocking that he could do something like that, he was lifting back end of cars as a teenager

now refute the rest of what I wrote earlier post, not just the lion attack, but I am sure you went and saw the footage of what others had to say and probably still not buying when you hear it from the sources mouth



In the early 1960's, Wilt Chamberlain said he was attacked by a mountain lion.

He told his good friend Cal Ramsey that he was alone in the country when the mountain lion leaped from rocks onto him.

Wilt said, "I killed him with my bare hands."

Ramsey expressed his doubts. To prove his point, Wilt pulled back his shirt to reveal several long scars on his shoulder, which Ramsey admitted looked like claw marks

That's the thing, Shaq doesn't need stories, he has film. I've seen plenty of Wilt film. He was not as powerful as Shaq on the court. He didn't throw his body around like Shaq.

europagnpilgrim
11-16-2016, 04:27 PM
That's the thing, Shaq doesn't need stories, he has film. I've seen plenty of Wilt film. He was not as powerful as Shaq on the court. He didn't throw his body around like Shaq.

Here's another thing, Shaq was once posted up by Michael Jordan and said he was the strongest player and once upon a time a skinny Jordan shattered the rim with a dunk(go check it out if you have time), Dipper would literally do what he wanted to with Jordan on or off the court, he was almost going to get it on with Ali in the ring(go look that up also)

you have seen plenty of film on Dipper then you should have seen him move Russell around like a rag doll on his '''scouting tool'' video, and Russell was as strong as they came but Dipper was on another level, its like B.Wallace vs Shaq which I know Shaq could/should dominate him stat wise but he never rag dolled him in the post like he was a lil child, I already mentioned to you why he didn't throw his body around because he would have put people on life support or in a funeral home

he was/is way more stronger than Shaq on or off the court, he had something called innate + Andre the Giant(but in top physical form) strength, like how Rodman had it but imagine it 5-10x more, players like Rodman/B Wallace would have been destroyed by Dipper, just like he did Russell head to head back then, and Russell is the best interior defender ever by a lot of so called experts and was strong as an ox but Dipper moved him around like he was a teddy bear(literally) when he wanted to and its on film so go watch

how in the world was he not as powerful on the court when he was moving 290lb players like a cup of coffee? which the player acknowledge himself it happened and was his greatest on court accomplishment? Shaq couldn't even do that to Rodman or Wallace

Dipper didn't play with that type of force because he would have killed players back then like I said earlier(and spoken also by his former teammate), its why he displayed it when he was riled up on a medium level and left the goals rattling and shaking and the ball would bounce up to the ceiling it seem like from his Dipper Dunk, go watch the film again because you cant be that blind to the facts

Shaq does have stories rather he needs them or not, he beefed with/ punched Kobe in practice and he was a goof ball/big kid in front of the camera and then put on all that extra fat weight and played like a maniac for that Lakers stretch when healthy and he pulled the old rim off and the new ones down and got bodyslammed by Barkley, he doesn't have Dipper myth like stories because he couldn't do what he did, its a reason why they called Shaq the modern day/closest version of Dipper, he is the step child watered replica, not the original

we are talking about a player who could record 40+pts,40 rebounds, 20+ blocks, 10+assists, 10 steals all in same game on many occasions but they didn't keep track of certain stats back then, that's the player we are talking about so of course it would just be mind boggling and mythical because he was so ahead of his time, he saved the nba originally but you were made to believe Bird/Magic did it, go figure

I never said he did throw his body around like Shaq I said he was way stronger and he even said him and Shaq played a diff. style and Shaq wouldn't have gotten away with his style against him because he wouldn't have been able to move Dipper around or bully him because he wasn't as strong, and he then threw out he was benching 600lbs, he could have literally sat Orlando version Shaq on top of the rim and the Lakers version would have been deadlifted since he could do almost 650lbs of that, you are stumped on the stories of Dipper because they are not of the norm at all, he is one of nobody

ewing
11-16-2016, 04:29 PM
more film = stronger

europagnpilgrim
11-16-2016, 04:52 PM
more film = stronger

I am pretty sure its more film on Dipper its just being concealed just like the recent leaked film has been all of a sudden revealed, technology has been around for thousands of years but they would like you to believe it just became so advanced which is poppycock

its like talking about the iPHone stuff out now, its like 7 versions out but they have 50 more in the crates right now that hasn't been put out yet to the public, that's how technology works

europagnpilgrim
11-17-2016, 12:23 AM
in 67' playoffs in one series Dipper avg. 27ppg 28rpg 11apg and in another series he avg. 22ppg 32rpg and 10apg with a quadruple double that series of 24pts 32rebounds 13 assists 12blocks

ewing
11-17-2016, 01:12 AM
i think the major corporations are holding back even more serious Wilt stats

europagnpilgrim
11-17-2016, 07:20 PM
i think the major corporations are holding back even more serious Wilt stats

especially his quadruple number of games he had or penta wise

even Oscar Rob said publicy that Dipper had more triple double games than him

like I said Dipper is one of nobody and I don't give a damn he only won 2 rings , just speaking from a solo dominant/stat point of view, nobody comes close

whats even funnier is all these mythical stories are told by others and not him running around looking for bragging rights or a ego stroke

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2016, 08:27 PM
especially his quadruple number of games he had or penta wise

even Oscar Rob said publicy that Dipper had more triple double games than him

like I said Dipper is one of nobody and I don't give a damn he only won 2 rings , just speaking from a solo dominant/stat point of view, nobody comes close

whats even funnier is all these mythical stories are told by others and not him running around looking for bragging rights or a ego stroke

Well there is the 20,000 women story. That one is on Wilt.

europagnpilgrim
11-17-2016, 10:15 PM
Well there is the 20,000 women story. That one is on Wilt.

Well I would think it would be since he would be the one smashing those females or maybe Rod made this up for shock value

According to Rod Roddewig, a contemporary of Wilt's, the 20,000 number was created when he and Chamberlain were staying in Chamberlain's penthouse in Honolulu during the mid-1980s. He and Chamberlain stayed at the penthouse for 10 days, over the course of which he recorded everything on his Daytimer.[clarification needed] For every time Chamberlain went to bed with a different girl he put a check in his daytimer. After those 10 days there were 23 checks in the book, which would be rate of 2.3 women per day. He divided that number in half, to be conservative and to correct for degrees of variation. He then multiplied that number by the number of days he had been alive at the time minus 15 years. That was how the 20,000 number came into existence.

europagnpilgrim
11-17-2016, 10:26 PM
Lets just say Dipper makes up all these stories and disguises himself as these people who speak of him in a high/mythical regard to make everyone on psd sleep better at night


"I would talk to Wilt about all the players pounding on him. Sometimes, he said he didn't notice it--he was so strong. But I also believe that there were two sets of rules. By that, I mean because Wilt was so strong, the officials let the man guarding him get away with more--almost trying to equalize the game. I also believe that Wilt just took it because he didn't want to get thrown out, and because ithad always been like that with him. But I'd watch it and I'd get mad. It takes me a while to get my temper going, but when it does--look out. I'd see what the other players were doing to Wilt and what the officials were allowing, and I'd get more upset than if it were happening to me. So I jumped in there. It wasn't that Wilt couldn't defend himself. If he ever got really hot, he'd kill people, so he let things pass. But I didn't have to worry about that. I was strong for my size, but I was not about to do anything like the kind of damage would."
--Al Attles



"We'd go into a dressing room and see a box score from the night before where Wilt had 55 or 60 points. No one would think twice about it. Getting 50-some points, or even 60-some, wasn't news when Wilt did it."

--Kevin Loughery



"The first time I guarded Wilt, I stood behind him and he was so wide that I couldn't see the rest of the game. Then I saw him dunk a ball so hard that it hit the court and bounced straight up back through the rim again."

--Bob Ferry


"One-on-one he [Wilt] would've murdered Russell and everyone. But playing five-on-five, Wilt was consigned to a specific role because of his ability to score so easily, whereas the Celtics fit Russell into their team concept better."

--Red Holzman


[Carl Braun said] "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman


"Once Wilt got upset with me and dunked the ball so hard it went through the rim with such force that it broke my toe as it hit the floor."

--Johnny Kerr


"I call Wilt Chamberlain a very honest workman. By that, I mean he always did what his employer wanted. No star athlete has ever given his boss more for the money than Wilt did during his career. Eddie Gottlieb [owner of the Warriors] wanted Wilt to score like no man ever had, so Wilt did. [Alex] Hannum and some of his other coaches wanted him to pass and play defense, so he did that and he played 48 minutes a night. Those who criticized Wilt -- first for his scoring, then for not scoring more -- really should have criticized his employer."

--Leonard Koppett


"I said, 'Wilt isn't such a tough guy. I can guard him.' He backed me down and dunked the ball. And I was so far under the basket, and he dunked it so hard, that the ball came through the net and hit me in the forehead twice! Bang! So I said, 'You know, I think he is that great.'

--Spencer Haywood


"As I grew up, Wilt the Stilt was the player. Just the things he was able to do. I guess one year they told him he couldn't make as much money as he wanted because he couldn't pass the ball, so he went out and led the
league in assists. Watching Wilt, you always kind of got the idea he was just playing with people. That he was on cruise control and still 10 times better than anybody else that was playing at that time.""
--Dan Issel


"He was the NBA. He was the guy on the top. Wilt was the guy you
talked about -- he and Bill Russell. He was the most dominating center -- the best center to ever play in the NBA."
-- Johnny Kerr


"One time, when I was with Boston and he was with the Lakers, Happy Hairston and I were about to get in a scrape. All of a sudden, I felt an enormous vise around me. I was 6-7, 235, and Wilt had picked me up and turned me around. He said, 'We're not going to have that stuff.' I said, 'Yes sir.' -- Paul Silas


"He [Wilt] stopped me dead in my tracks with his arm, hugged me and lifted me off the floor with my feet dangling. It scared the hell out of me. When I went to the free-throw line, my legs were still shaking. Wilt was the strongest guy and best athlete ever to play the game." -- KC Jones

europagnpilgrim
11-18-2016, 02:53 AM
Did he ever pull the entire hoop down? Cause Shaq did, and we actually have footage so. If it ain't on film, I gotta pass.

The rims they made back then were so flimsy and weak. Gotta kind of question his power considering how much stronger the NBA has made the Rims and hoop based off hard dunking in the 90's aka SHAQ.

You would of thought an era of Wilt would of gotten those rims perfected. But soon after Darrell Dawkins was shattering backboards.

Here's some film, checkmate

https://youtu.be/uJGCySdvlPo

ewing
11-18-2016, 02:19 PM
He can palm a 16 pound bowling ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
11-18-2016, 02:45 PM
Here's some film, checkmate

https://youtu.be/uJGCySdvlPo

I love old Wilt highlights. He might have a case for the greatest athlete to ever play the game.

I will say, everytime I watch these though, you know he goaltended a ton of those blocks, right?

europagnpilgrim
11-19-2016, 12:50 AM
I love old Wilt highlights. He might have a case for the greatest athlete to ever play the game.

I will say, everytime I watch these though, you know he goaltended a ton of those blocks, right?

I feel same way about the old highlights of the Dipper

They called goaltending on him on occasion and of course he would throw a hissy fit, just like the players of today do and past era, I don't know when they started calling the goaltending but he racked up blocks like no other had it been kept track, just imagine had they kept track of his pts/boards/assists/steals/blocks totals each game when he first entered the league, it would be mind boggling to say the least

he has a case as the best athlete ever for any sport, to me he is because of the combo of sheer natural ability/power etc.

the stories his peers/coaches speak on him about have people in a frenzy and dismissed as myths, mostly todays fanatics but few like you pretty much know what he was capable of had he played in later eras

europagnpilgrim
11-19-2016, 12:54 AM
He can palm a 16 pound bowling ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

he also could palm a basketball with a finger or two

in a interview a guy was telling him he was benching 465lbs like it was a matchstick

people like to say lifting weights has nothing to do with bball strength until they realize he was a actual true Giant with the strength to go with that playing bball, on or off the court it was unmatched

TheMightyHumph
11-19-2016, 01:17 AM
I feel same way about the old highlights of the Dipper

They called goaltending on him on occasion and of course he would throw a hissy fit, just like the players of today do and past era, I don't know when they started calling the goaltending but he racked up blocks like no other had it been kept track, just imagine had they kept track of his pts/boards/assists/steals/blocks totals each game when he first entered the league, it would be mind boggling to say the least

he has a case as the best athlete ever for any sport, to me he is because of the combo of sheer natural ability/power etc.

the stories his peers/coaches speak on him about have people in a frenzy and dismissed as myths, mostly todays fanatics but few like you pretty much know what he was capable of had he played in later eras

He wouldn't have been the hated 'Goliath'.

I can't imagine that he could have POSSIBLY presented himself as a bigger idiot than Shaq.

lol, please
11-19-2016, 01:41 AM
i think the major corporations are holding back even more serious Wilt stats
[emoji23]

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

europagnpilgrim
11-19-2016, 03:56 PM
He wouldn't have been the hated 'Goliath'.

I can't imagine that he could have POSSIBLY presented himself as a bigger idiot than Shaq.



I really don't know where you are going with this reply but good luck on your great adventure

TheMightyHumph
11-19-2016, 04:14 PM
I really don't know where you are going with this reply but good luck on your great adventure

Sorry you can't understand.

europagnpilgrim
11-19-2016, 05:39 PM
Sorry you can't understand.

I overstand all, understand nothing, so sorry also

what I do overstand is that Dipper is the most dominant solo act ever by far, sorry again

TheMightyHumph
11-19-2016, 05:51 PM
I overstand all, understand nothing, so sorry also

what I do overstand is that Dipper is the most dominant solo act ever by far, sorry again

Sorry for what? I began following the NBA in 1962 because of Wilt Chamberlain. I rooted for whichever team Wilt was playing for.

europagnpilgrim
11-20-2016, 01:21 AM
Sorry for what? I began following the NBA in 1962 because of Wilt Chamberlain. I rooted for whichever team Wilt was playing for.


Well if you have been watching ball that long then what you said in the prior post had nothing to do with what I was speaking about, I said sorry because you said sorry, sorry for what is the same thing I said

but since you are like the grandpa of psd then I wont make a big deal with how you respond since you are right I don't understand, only overstand

you should have rooted for Dipper since he was one of a kind special, best/most dominant player in any era since the nba started in the 40's

ewing
11-20-2016, 11:46 AM
he also could palm a basketball with a finger or two

in a interview a guy was telling him he was benching 465lbs like it was a matchstick

people like to say lifting weights has nothing to do with bball strength until they realize he was a actual true Giant with the strength to go with that playing bball, on or off the court it was unmatched

those people are stupid. Look at a guy like JJ Reddick. He came into the league with a skill set that was NBA ready but offensive players were able to play right through him even though he played smart D b/c he was just too weak. JJ needed weights to be an NBA player, he had the game. As an old that is losing my athleticism i'll tell you the ability to hold position and drive/cut through contact is huge

TheMightyHumph
11-20-2016, 01:54 PM
Well if you have been watching ball that long then what you said in the prior post had nothing to do with what I was speaking about, I said sorry because you said sorry, sorry for what is the same thing I said

but since you are like the grandpa of psd then I wont make a big deal with how you respond since you are right I don't understand, only overstand

you should have rooted for Dipper since he was one of a kind special, best/most dominant player in any era since the nba started in the 40's

I never knew another Wilt fan while I was rooting for him.

europagnpilgrim
11-20-2016, 04:29 PM
I never knew another Wilt fan while I was rooting for him.

They must have been either all Celtic fanatics back then or just didn't know jack **** about actually playing the game then

that's sad to hear that seeing he was against the odds back then team wise against that 8 peat stacked dynasty, It would seem like everybody outside of Boston/east coast area would be pulling for him to succeed, but now he has plenty of supporters who know the most dominant/best player ever is Dipper, case closed

europagnpilgrim
11-20-2016, 04:33 PM
those people are stupid. Look at a guy like JJ Reddick. He came into the league with a skill set that was NBA ready but offensive players were able to play right through him even though he played smart D b/c he was just too weak. JJ needed weights to be an NBA player, he had the game. As an old that is losing my athleticism i'll tell you the ability to hold position and drive/cut through contact is huge

I have to admit they are ignorant indeed because they fail to realize he was a actual true Giant playing bball, just like if he had accepted the Chiefs offer to play TE in NFL or decided to be a full time Olympian he would have had the same Giant strength, if a guy can deadlift 600+lbs its obvious his strength is on a entire diff. level than regular strong players like a Artis Gilmore/K Malone and whoever else, especially on the hardwood

TheMightyHumph
11-20-2016, 04:43 PM
They must have been either all Celtic fanatics back then or just didn't know jack **** about actually playing the game then

that's sad to hear that seeing he was against the odds back then team wise against that 8 peat stacked dynasty, It would seem like everybody outside of Boston/east coast area would be pulling for him to succeed, but now he has plenty of supporters who know the most dominant/best player ever is Dipper, case closed

I grew up in East Harlem, NYC. All Knicks or Celtics fans.

europagnpilgrim
11-20-2016, 11:06 PM
I grew up in East Harlem, NYC. All Knicks or Celtics fans.

Well there you have it then, Harlem world stand up, salute

TheMightyHumph
11-20-2016, 11:48 PM
Well there you have it then, Harlem world stand up, salute

East Harlem and Harlem are VERY different. Even more so when I was growing up.

East Harlem was Italian Harlem until I was about 17. Then it became Spanish Harlem, also called El Barrio.

But you can still salute. Or as many of we Italian-Americans say, salud.

europagnpilgrim
11-21-2016, 12:44 AM
East Harlem and Harlem are VERY different. Even more so when I was growing up.

East Harlem was Italian Harlem until I was about 17. Then it became Spanish Harlem, also called El Barrio.

But you can still salute. Or as many of we Italian-Americans say, salud.

no doubt, I just said that because you said that Harlem name so I just gave a shout out to Harlem as a whole

salud

AIRMAR72
11-22-2016, 01:34 PM
I disagree, zones always bothered Hakeem more than Shaq, particularly in his youth when he wasn't an adept passer by any stretch. Shaq would thrive off the numerous dump off opportunities his presence provides and hes a FAR more gifted passer. Shaq's size alone would force many GM's into finding 7ft stiffs to just check him. its obvious you clearly dont what your talking about Shaq better than dream lol you must be smoking chronic

AIRMAR72
11-22-2016, 02:06 PM
the problem with Dream was, his absolute peak, his defensive dominance was no longer what it was earlier in his career, when his offense was far behind. By the time his offense caught up, he wasn't the defender he was.

Shaq bends, molds, and defines defenses. He gives you the better opportunity to win. He takes so much attention away from other offensive players. It doesn't matter what era you stick him in. He bends the defense at will.

I am trying my best not to lump you into Houston fans, but my 19 years down there, many of them were spent dealing with Dream homers that overrated him. Great player. I even overrate him. But he is well behind Shaq as far as a player/impact at the end of the day.
I disagree the reason why Hakeem is disrespected by the League overlords and Media its because Hakeem wasn't US born and not being a US citizen backthan along with his Muslim faith his basketball skills was ignored by the media etc but if you ask ANY former NBA player who played against the DREAM I guarantee they say Hakeem is best center ever to play in NBA Hakeem is like MJ and his position when shaq first got in the league Hakeem, Ewing,Robinson etc were getting in up age with high mileage on their body's Shaq had zero skills he was a wide body agile athletic big who did his damage 4-5feet away from the basket when all the skilled talented bigs retired Shaq dominated in the watered down era and was playing against guys who were 6"8 -6"10 who came outta HS or played 2yrs of college

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-22-2016, 02:54 PM
Id take Hakeem all day. Yeah both players have rings. But Shaq had to be a ring chaser to get all his. Hakeem teams were home grown for his first ring. They had Mad Max and Thorp and rookie Sam I am Cassell. Yeah rockets had ring chasers there when Hakeem got old like Clyde and Barkley and Pippen. Oh what was the reason Rockets traded Pippen to Blazers? He didn't get along with Barkley or what?

Chronz
11-22-2016, 03:46 PM
its obvious you clearly dont what your talking about Shaq better than dream lol you must be smoking chronic

You missed a few words in there but i get the gist. You clearly don't know Jack either

IKnowHoops
11-22-2016, 04:03 PM
As a Huge Admiral fan, Shaq was more of a problem. David outplayed both on a number of occasions head-to-head. A lot more desperation, help and game planning involved when going up against Diesel.

AIRMAR72
11-22-2016, 11:55 PM
You missed a few words in there but i get the gist. You clearly don't know Jack either
Lol...its all good brah but its sad how Hakeem gets disrespected by the media the dream is easily a top 5 alltime greatest top 3 bigman to ever play the game

Chronz
11-23-2016, 03:22 AM
Lol...its all good brah but its sad how Hakeem gets disrespected by the media the dream is easily a top 5 alltime greatest top 3 bigman to ever play the game

The reason that doesn't work on me is cuz i grew up in la and my mum got me tix to see dream. Not to see my home town team, but to see Dream. Imagine being told you're going to watch nique AND dream... They put on a show and I've been hooked ever since.

I feel like most fans simply don't understand what it's like to go to an event, not hoping for your team to win but just hoping for a good competitive outing.

Dream at his best is as good as ANYONE. I just feel like Shaq held that same level for much longer.

PurpleJesus
11-23-2016, 03:46 AM
Shaq.

Im too young to have appreciated Hakeem, but at the age of 31 right now, I can safely say that Shaq is the most dominate offensive player I have ever seen, and its not even really close...

Give it to him in the low block, and its 90% that its either 2 points, or a foul on the other team, and a chance at the line, where he is likely to get at least one point...

Shaq made players like Mark Madsen relevant, simply because Mark Madsen could foul Shaq.