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View Full Version : Do the Wizards Need to Blow it Up?



shep33
11-02-2016, 11:56 AM
I know it's early, but this team is just straight weird. Rumors of Beal and Wall not getting along, coaching changes, the way minutes are spread around... this team just seems destined for disaster, again. Really don't think Beal is worth that money, especially due to his injury history.

Should they blow it up? Trade Wall, Gortat?

ClutchTime
11-02-2016, 12:31 PM
They are only 0-2 so I'm not gonna give up on them yet. I haven't watched them yet this year to give you an answer.

Blink
11-02-2016, 01:07 PM
Wouldn't mind Wall in Detroit although I have no complaints with Reggie Jackson.

R. Johnson#3
11-02-2016, 01:13 PM
Lakers should offer a package centred around Russell for Wall if they do blow it up.

TheDish87
11-02-2016, 01:25 PM
Wall and Beal already cleared the air on that media drama i believe.

basketballkitty
11-02-2016, 02:05 PM
Washington's problems begin and end with John Wall. He has been in the league for years, and has had some very good teammates around him, and yet he continues to refuse to try and alter his horrible shooting style...never tried to Improve his 3Pt shooting in any way, and is basically a me-first player. Yes, Beal has issues with his brittle Body. And that new deal he got will be a huge risk cause IF Beal breaks down again this season...that deal will be an Anchor cause no way will any team be stupid enough to trade for it.



But bottom line the main problem is Wall.

shep33
11-02-2016, 02:31 PM
They have a lot of talent on that team. Something just isn't right with the chemistry. I feel like Porter can be a lot better if he was given a bigger role offensively. Just a weird dynamic with the team.

Anyways, I think they should really consider it come mid-season.

Chronz
11-02-2016, 03:03 PM
Im a big fan of Wall but its mostly due to aesthetics and playing style than his actual consistency/effectiveness. Its really hard to get a handle on exactly how he should develop but the kid has shown elite defensive potential in the past. I dont see the talent some brag about but they should make the playoffs if hes as good as I think.

My question is this, if Wall does have the talent around him then why doesn't he stop calling his own number when hes not that effective at scoring and seems to be a really great playmaker? Is he only creating those assists precisely because hes so aggressive rather than a result of his own court vision? Why doesn't he play more like peak Rajon Rondo instead of this high volume scorer/playmaker? Is it just not in his make up or does his team really lack options?

Im an optimist and I want to believe that Wall is forced into such an inefficient burden and that he would thrive as a pure PG if he had the weapons but that could easily be a load of BS. Hes a cross between Rondo and Kidd but not really better at their individual calling card. Hes still the fastest guy in the league with the ball IMO and thats a skill that Jason Kidd held even into his 30's but he needs to develop his halfcourt game badly.

Beal doesn't like playing with him IMO for similar reasons that KD didn't love playing with RWB.

JLynn943
11-02-2016, 03:42 PM
I wish the Kings could somehow pair Wall with Cousins, but I don't see a possibility of that happening.

I don't know what Washington should do though. They seem to be one of those teams that's pretty good but never good enough. It's not easy to go either way from there, and I don't think there's a right answer. I guess they can pray that Durant wins a championship and wants to join them after accomplishing it.

mrblisterdundee
11-02-2016, 07:38 PM
They have a lot of talent on that team. Something just isn't right with the chemistry. I feel like Porter can be a lot better if he was given a bigger role offensively. Just a weird dynamic with the team.
Anyways, I think they should really consider it come mid-season.

I also feel like Porter is capable of much more. He's already one of their best three-point shooters.
The Wizards should try to trade Wall for a couple assets, including a younger point guard who shoots better. Beal doesn't have much value, with his huge contract and injury history, so wait and see how he develops. He could be a a bust or a cornerstone. Everyone else on the roster is expendable.

TrueFan420
11-02-2016, 09:18 PM
It's a very interesting question which I don't think anyone can answer without being in the lockeroom. They need to do something and it has nothing to do with their record. They have talent and should be doing more than they are with it. Something needs to change. Making the correct change is the toughest part of it from the outside.

canzano55
11-02-2016, 10:19 PM
They kept giving the ball up against my Raps tonight like they were begging to lose.

Wall is a force when he drives and the angularity he's able to utilize as he goes up is incredible but the rest of the time the offence is stagnant with very little fluidity.

I don't know if that means you blow it up though because trading a player like Wall isn't something you do lightly.

Miltstar
11-02-2016, 10:34 PM
Wall with 9 turnovers tonight, I don't care how many points or assists you have you ain't winning like that

mightybosstone
11-03-2016, 10:32 AM
It's too soon to say, but I do think giving Beal that much money was a mistake. I kind of feel like they went all-in on this roster, but it's a roster that hasn't won more than 46 games since it was put together. As constructed, I don't see them as more than a 40-44 win team scrapping to make the playoffs as a low seed in the East—and that's a best case scenario. They need at least one more piece, and I kind of doubt that Wall can be the best player on a serious playoff contender.

But even if they added another No. 2 or No. 3 caliber guy, I don't think this core of players will every be taken seriously as a contender. Too much money is spent on their top two guys, who aren't particularly efficient scorers and have some pretty big holes in their games. This squad is essentially the Arenas/Butler/Jamison Wizards team—fun to watch, but no one is scared of them.

So whether they should blow it up is really on the front office. Do you want to continue to be competitive but never come remotely close to winning a title, or do you want to blow it up and start from scratch?

Hawkeye15
11-03-2016, 10:36 AM
It's too soon to say, but I do think giving Beal that much money was a mistake. I kind of feel like they went all-in on this roster, but it's a roster that hasn't won more than 46 games since it was put together. As constructed, I don't see them as more than a 40-44 win team scrapping to make the playoffs as a low seed in the East—and that's a best case scenario. They need at least one more piece, and I kind of doubt that Wall can be the best player on a serious playoff contender.

But even if they added another No. 2 or No. 3 caliber guy, I don't think this core of players will every be taken seriously as a contender. Too much money is spent on their top two guys, who aren't particularly efficient scorers and have some pretty big holes in their games. This squad is essentially the Arenas/Butler/Jamison Wizards team—fun to watch, but no one is scared of them.

So whether they should blow it up is really on the front office. Do you want to continue to be competitive but never come remotely close to winning a title, or do you want to blow it up and start from scratch?

as a Rockets fan, you know that trying to build a contender, while trying to remain competitive, is TOUGH. Being a 40-44 win team is the equivalent of purgatory, if there is no upside for roster growth.

North Yorker
11-03-2016, 10:37 AM
If Wall does get traded, the most obvious fit is Denver imo. WSH would want to send him to the West, and the team trading for him would need the young assets WSH wants in return.

Along with the young talent, Denver also has MEM's 2017 1st this year (top 5 protected), which could be pretty good.

Mudiay
Murray
Faried
MEM and DEN 2017 1st

for

Wall

works salary wise, but really there are a bunch of different players that could added (Chandler/Barton/Gary Harris/one of the Nurkic/Jokic,etc), just depends on what WSH wants in return.

NO would definitely be interested but don't think they have the assets (Jrue+Hield+ 2017 unprotected 1st?) Not gonna get it done.

PHX is another interesting fit. A Wall/Booker backcourt could be lethal. A package built around Bledsoe/Knight and young assets/picks could get it done too. So them and DEN seem like the best matches trade wise, now it just depends if WSH wants to blow it up.

IndyRealist
11-03-2016, 10:42 AM
I'd rather have John Wall than Jeff Teague. But I'd rather have George Hill than either.

mightybosstone
11-03-2016, 10:56 AM
as a Rockets fan, you know that trying to build a contender, while trying to remain competitive, is TOUGH. Being a 40-44 win team is the equivalent of purgatory, if there is no upside for roster growth.

Agree completely. Those three consecutive years of being the 9 seed after Yao and Tracy were brutal. Morey hit a home run with the Harden trade, but that was kind of a once in a decade type trade. And there was no guarantee that Harden would become the player he's become. In fact, that offseason, it was pretty obvious that Morey was going into full tank mode. He let Dragic and Scola go and put those poison pill contracts out on Lin and Asik to build a roster around. And if you ask all Rockets fans, we'd tell you that we were 100 percent on board with blowing it up at that point before the Harden deal went down.

Plus, it's not like Washington is acquiring a ton of assets of value right now, which is what Morey somehow managed to do all those years while the Rockets were still winning 40+ games. So a trade like that seems extremely unlikely. So really the only way Washington is going to get substantially better is by cleaning house and getting a hell of a lot worst first. If it were me, I'd blow it up. But if it were me, I never would have given Beal that contract to begin with. So I kind of feel like the front office has made its decision and has chosen mediocrity.

cmellofan15
11-03-2016, 11:22 AM
If Wall does get traded, the most obvious fit is Denver imo. WSH would want to send him to the West, and the team trading for him would need the young assets WSH wants in return.

Along with the young talent, Denver also has MEM's 2017 1st this year (top 5 protected), which could be pretty good.

Mudiay
Murray
Faried
MEM and DEN 2017 1st

for

Wall

works salary wise, but really there are a bunch of different players that could added (Chandler/Barton/Gary Harris/one of the Nurkic/Jokic,etc), just depends on what WSH wants in return.

NO would definitely be interested but don't think they have the assets (Jrue+Hield+ 2017 unprotected 1st?) Not gonna get it done.

PHX is another interesting fit. A Wall/Booker backcourt could be lethal. A package built around Bledsoe/Knight and young assets/picks could get it done too. So them and DEN seem like the best matches trade wise, now it just depends if WSH wants to blow it up.

LMAO ahahhhahahahhahahaaha who the **** would trade all of that stuff for john wall? is that a serious proposal?

cmellofan15
11-03-2016, 11:23 AM
I'd rather have John Wall than Jeff Teague. But I'd rather have George Hill than either.

george hill>kyrie

Hawkeye15
11-03-2016, 11:24 AM
Agree completely. Those three consecutive years of being the 9 seed after Yao and Tracy were brutal. Morey hit a home run with the Harden trade, but that was kind of a once in a decade type trade. And there was no guarantee that Harden would become the player he's become. In fact, that offseason, it was pretty obvious that Morey was going into full tank mode. He let Dragic and Scola go and put those poison pill contracts out on Lin and Asik to build a roster around. And if you ask all Rockets fans, we'd tell you that we were 100 percent on board with blowing it up at that point before the Harden deal went down.

Plus, it's not like Washington is acquiring a ton of assets of value right now, which is what Morey somehow managed to do all those years while the Rockets were still winning 40+ games. So a trade like that seems extremely unlikely. So really the only way Washington is going to get substantially better is by cleaning house and getting a hell of a lot worst first. If it were me, I'd blow it up. But if it were me, I never would have given Beal that contract to begin with. So I kind of feel like the front office has made its decision and has chosen mediocrity.

well Morey kept getting value picks with those late lottery picks. Players that were above their draft slot. He was able to then move those players before they got new deals, acquiring more and more assets. It's why he built his reputation as a good GM, and rightly so. I just don't see Washington able to do that, they don't have the assets, they have guys making real money, and they are now stuck their top 6 salaries for at least 2 more seasons. The Beal contract was a bad move, but it can join the long list of bad signings this past offseason. Though, the network deal runs for a bunch more years, so the initial signings will be gone before anyone has to worry about it, even if a deal like Beal's will hinder what Washington can add in FA prior to the summer of 2019. They need to re-sign Wall then, but if they are conservative at all, they can still sign another max deal, and some smaller deals. But why tread water until then?

Washington will basically settle for a bottom seed for the next few years, and pray for an upset in round 1.

STRIKERC
11-03-2016, 11:47 AM
The problem is simply the fact that John Wall is their "star" player.
He is nothing more than a second or even third option on a good team.
Most perennial bad teams in the NBA are victims of building around a star player who really shouldn't be a star.

Chronz
11-03-2016, 12:00 PM
I'd rather have John Wall than Jeff Teague. But I'd rather have George Hill than either.

That shot creating all star ain't working out so well right now huh. Don't know why bird downgraded like that

North Yorker
11-03-2016, 12:26 PM
LMAO ahahhhahahahhahahaaha who the **** would trade all of that stuff for john wall? is that a serious proposal?

Yes. He's a very good PG in his prime under contract for 3 more years at (now) below market value.

You can "LMAO" all you want. He has significant trade value.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2016, 12:36 PM
I know it's early, but this team is just straight weird. Rumors of Beal and Wall not getting along, coaching changes, the way minutes are spread around... this team just seems destined for disaster, again. Really don't think Beal is worth that money, especially due to his injury history.

Should they blow it up? Trade Wall, Gortat?

Not a blow up, but keep Wall and get different pieces around him...I've said on this site Noles for Beal and both sides put other pieces in the deal. This makes both teams better and provides a needed long term piece.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2016, 12:38 PM
They are only 0-2 so I'm not gonna give up on them yet. I haven't watched them yet this year to give you an answer.

Yeah but Wall and Beals never seemed to mesh right, so while it is early, Beals should have been moved this offseason

KnickNyKnick
11-03-2016, 01:33 PM
yes blow it up. Send John Wall to the Knicks for D.Rose. Wizards get cap (21million expiring) . Knicks get their PG for the future. Done deal.

dhopisthename
11-03-2016, 01:49 PM
That shot creating all star ain't working out so well right now huh. Don't know why bird downgraded like that

it made no sense when you already have paul george and monta ellis. lets pair a guy who needs the ball in his hands with two other guys who need the ball in the hands.

IndyRealist
11-03-2016, 02:31 PM
That shot creating all star ain't working out so well right now huh. Don't know why bird downgraded like that

Don't get me started. Indy loves the phrase "it's time to move on" from extremely valuable players, yet doggedly hold on to guys like Monta.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-04-2016, 09:38 AM
If Wall does get traded, the most obvious fit is Denver imo. WSH would want to send him to the West, and the team trading for him would need the young assets WSH wants in return.

Along with the young talent, Denver also has MEM's 2017 1st this year (top 5 protected), which could be pretty good.

Mudiay
Murray
Faried
MEM and DEN 2017 1st

for

Wall

works salary wise, but really there are a bunch of different players that could added (Chandler/Barton/Gary Harris/one of the Nurkic/Jokic,etc), just depends on what WSH wants in return.

NO would definitely be interested but don't think they have the assets (Jrue+Hield+ 2017 unprotected 1st?) Not gonna get it done.

PHX is another interesting fit. A Wall/Booker backcourt could be lethal. A package built around Bledsoe/Knight and young assets/picks could get it done too. So them and DEN seem like the best matches trade wise, now it just depends if WSH wants to blow it up.


Denver easily says no. That's a steep asking price for Wall. Also Pelicans probably say no. That unprotected first be top 5 lottery in deep draft.

Vampirate
11-04-2016, 10:21 AM
It's simple, Derozan even in his worst year would still be outplaying Beal right now. Bradley needs to step up.

To add: I hear their bench isn't exactly world class either, but Bradley 100% needs to walk the walk here in order for the wizards to even sniff the playoffs.

5ass
11-04-2016, 02:46 PM
I want him on the Magic surrounded by great defenders and guys that can run the floor (Gordon, Biz, Ibaka). I'd give up anything else for him though.

Chronz
11-04-2016, 03:30 PM
If Wall does get traded, the most obvious fit is Denver imo. WSH would want to send him to the West, and the team trading for him would need the young assets WSH wants in return.

Along with the young talent, Denver also has MEM's 2017 1st this year (top 5 protected), which could be pretty good.

Mudiay
Murray
Faried
MEM and DEN 2017 1st

for

Wall

works salary wise, but really there are a bunch of different players that could added (Chandler/Barton/Gary Harris/one of the Nurkic/Jokic,etc), just depends on what WSH wants in return.

NO would definitely be interested but don't think they have the assets (Jrue+Hield+ 2017 unprotected 1st?) Not gonna get it done.

PHX is another interesting fit. A Wall/Booker backcourt could be lethal. A package built around Bledsoe/Knight and young assets/picks could get it done too. So them and DEN seem like the best matches trade wise, now it just depends if WSH wants to blow it up.
Agreed on. Denver. Mudiay is holding them back

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 04:27 PM
If Wall does get traded, the most obvious fit is Denver imo. WSH would want to send him to the West, and the team trading for him would need the young assets WSH wants in return.

Along with the young talent, Denver also has MEM's 2017 1st this year (top 5 protected), which could be pretty good.

Mudiay
Murray
Faried
MEM and DEN 2017 1st

for

Wall

works salary wise, but really there are a bunch of different players that could added (Chandler/Barton/Gary Harris/one of the Nurkic/Jokic,etc), just depends on what WSH wants in return.

NO would definitely be interested but don't think they have the assets (Jrue+Hield+ 2017 unprotected 1st?) Not gonna get it done.

PHX is another interesting fit. A Wall/Booker backcourt could be lethal. A package built around Bledsoe/Knight and young assets/picks could get it done too. So them and DEN seem like the best matches trade wise, now it just depends if WSH wants to blow it up.

You have Denver giving up Mudiay and Murray but say PHX can get it done without Booker? Lol. Bledsoe and Knight are not getting them a John Wall.

North Yorker
11-04-2016, 05:22 PM
You have Denver giving up Mudiay and Murray but say PHX can get it done without Booker? Lol. Bledsoe and Knight are not getting them a John Wall.
Uhh yes?That's like saying there's no way CLE could get Love without giving up Kyrie.

You don't give up your best player for Wall, you get Wall to pair with your best player(s) because you want to take the next step. Murray and Mudiay aren't the best players on DEN like Booker is in PHX.

Denver's gets to hang on to Nurkic and Jokic, the guys they should be building around anyways. Pairing Wall with Harris in the backcourt is a good fit too.

PHX could absolutely build a package around someone not named Booker.

Knight or Bledsoe
+
Chriss or Bender
+
Warren
+
pick

could be a competitive offer.

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 05:34 PM
Uhh yes?That's like saying there's no way CLE could get Love without giving up Kyrie.

You don't give up your best player for Wall, you get Wall to pair with your best player(s) because you want to take the next step. Murray and Mudiay aren't the best players on DEN like Booker is in PHX.

Denver's gets to hang on to Nurkic and Jokic, the guys they should be building around anyways. Pairing Wall with Harris in the backcourt is a good fit too.

PHX could absolutely build a package around someone not named Booker.

Knight or Bledsoe
+
Chriss or Bender
+
Warren
+
pick

could be a competitive offer.

Probably not.

North Yorker
11-04-2016, 06:06 PM
Probably not.

Cool.

Vampirate
11-05-2016, 03:15 PM
Here's the problem, how would the Wizards blow it up, outside Wall, what other piece are teams going to be interested in.

Even if they do trade Wall they would still have Bradley Beals contract on the books (at this point Beal would REALLY have to step up).