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View Full Version : MULTIPLE Contract Extensions Today: Gobert / Oladipo / Steven Adams / Dieng. Dang.



tredigs
10-31-2016, 06:52 PM
On the last day for extensions, we're getting a flurry of them:

OKC Thunder: Steven Adams signed to 4 years - 100 million. Oladipo signed to 4 years - 84 million.

Utah Jazz: Rudy Gobert signed to 4 years - 102 million.

Minnesota T-Wolves: Dieng nearing deal of 4 years - 64 million.

https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN

Edit: Players who signed their extensions prior to today:

C.J. McCollum: 4 years, $106 million with Blazers.

Giannis Antetokounmpo: 4 years, $100 million with Bucks.

Dennis Schroder: 4 years, $70 million with Hawks.

It's all 2013 draft-class guys who are eligible, btw. They're rookie-contract-extensions and the deadline is midnight tonight (Halloween).


Update: Cody Zeller stays with Charlotte on 4 for $56 million (structured backloaded).

5ass
10-31-2016, 06:59 PM
Damn. Oladipo's contract was a slight overpay IMO. Adams is even more overpaid. 25 mill/yr? He doesn't do much offensively, rebounding is weak, can he even anchor a great defense? That's a lot of commitment from OKC.

Gobert id take over Adams. Maybe a slight overpay.

Dieng is being paid like an average starter now, and I'm not sure he's that good. Is that really the best front court mate for KAT?

tredigs
10-31-2016, 06:59 PM
Steven Adams is making $3,140,517 in 2016/17. He is set to make $25 million a year.

Victor Oladipo is making $6,552,960 in 2016/17 He is set to make $21 million a year.

Rudy Gobert is making $2,121,288 in 2016/17. He is set to make $25.5 million a year.

Gorgui Deng is making $2,348,783 in 2016/17. He is set to make $16 million a year.

Think these boys are happy to be off their rookie contracts?

europagnpilgrim
10-31-2016, 07:02 PM
All of them are pretty much a joke as far as yearly salary, i mean Adams is not worth 25mill per, they all should have received Dieng type extensions and Dieng should have gotten around 40-44mill total

but with the cap rise i guess this is what the nba has come to, its no wonder the old school/90's players are bitter because they were actually worth these type of deals being handed out like pancakes in todays climate

mngopher35
10-31-2016, 07:02 PM
Wow I didn't even see this for Dieng yet thanks for the info.

I think many questioned his future with us but I honestly think 16 mil per year might be worth it to keep him around (I said 15 I think over the summer). I was kinda hoping we would wait and do it this summer signing him after an ufa or something though to try and maximize our space...

5ass
10-31-2016, 07:06 PM
What's crazy is I thought that with the rise in cap, teams would be more careful about giving out max/near max contracts, but I guess not. Its possible that they think the cap will continue to rise though.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 07:10 PM
Damn. Oladipo's contract was a slight overpay IMO. Adams is even more overpaid. 25 mill/yr? He doesn't do much offensively, rebounding is weak, can he even anchor a great defense? That's a lot of commitment from OKC.

Gobert id take over Adams. Maybe a slight overpay.

Dieng is being paid like an average starter now, and I'm not sure he's that good. Is that really the best front court mate for KAT?

I gotta imagine some team would have paid this amount for all of these guys though. In this case they don't have to worry about losing them. What's unfortunate for the team is that now they don't get contract-year play necessarily out of any of them. None strike me as the type to particularly slow it down now that they're rich, but they are now FILTHY rich. With contract sizes inflated to unprecedented levels now, it will actually be pretty interesting to see who just phones it in from this point forward. This is GUARANTEED money, and it is enough money that none of them will ever have to work another day in their lives if they did not want to. It used to be only the premier talents getting 20 million a year, now it's every average starter. That could be a potentially troubling situation from a competition standpoint. That said, they know that if they keep up their game for another 4 years, they'll have another $100 million dollars lined up for them around the bend, so that's likely too much money to look past (even if they already have enough money to buy a fleet of mansions with cash).

warfelg
10-31-2016, 07:11 PM
I'm most shocked that Boston and Olynyk didn't work something out.

5ass
10-31-2016, 07:12 PM
True.

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 07:29 PM
We can talk about the rise in cap all we want but these deals are getting ridiculous. You aren't building a contender if you're putting a fourth of your total cap space in Adams and then basically another 4th in Oladipo. Idk how much Westbrook signed for hut I would assume they all combine for about 75M then you have Kanter signed to a max and I believe that ties up almost all their money. Maybe enough to sign another decent player but with Oladipo who is probably a top 75 player at best making 21M how talented of a player are you really going to be able to get? There are several teams you can say this about not just OKC but I'm gong off the Adams deal. Guys are lookin around the league and seeing guys who they probably believe they're better then getting paid loads of money so they're going to want to be paid more than them.

I just think this could have a negative effect on the league but it's too early to tell. I think guys should look st the extra cap and say "okay I can take a raise but if we play it smart we can also add another player to the team that could take us to the next level."

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 07:30 PM
Man, OKC is putting all of their eggs in the "Re-sign Westbrook" basket. If he leaves, they're screwed. If they didn't sign these guys up long term or if they would've traded them this year, they might be screwed.

Chess gamin'.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 07:33 PM
We can talk about the rise in cap all we want but these deals are getting ridiculous. You aren't building a contender if you're putting a fourth of your total cap space in Adams and then basically another 4th in Oladipo. Idk how much Westbrook signed for hut I would assume they all combine for about 75M then you have Kanter signed to a max and I believe that ties up almost all their money. Maybe enough to sign another decent player but with Oladipo who is probably a top 75 player at best making 21M how talented of a player are you really going to be able to get? There are several teams you can say this about not just OKC but I'm gong off the Adams deal. Guys are lookin around the league and seeing guys who they probably believe they're better then getting paid loads of money so they're going to want to be paid more than them.

I just think this could have a negative effect on the league but it's too early to tell. I think guys should look st the extra cap and say "okay I can take a raise but if we play it smart we can also add another player to the team that could take us to the next level."

I think they learned from their Harden mistake that you gotta pay up when you gotta pay up. The problem is, those guys ain't Harden. And they don't have two studs anymore, only one.

bleedprple&gold
10-31-2016, 07:35 PM
Man, OKC is putting all of their eggs in the "Re-sign Westbrook" basket. If he leaves, they're screwed. If they didn't sign these guys up long term or if they would've traded them this year, they might be screwed.

Chess gamin'.

?? Westbrook already signed an extension too.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 07:40 PM
?? Westbrook already signed an extension too.

Oh snap, totally forgot about that.

KnicksorBust
10-31-2016, 08:05 PM
Melo is a steal now baby.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 08:25 PM
Melo is a steal now baby.

Warriors have Klay and Draymond through '19 and '20 at ~17 mil a year ; D

JAZZNC
10-31-2016, 10:07 PM
Warriors have Klay and Draymond through '19 and '20 at ~17 mil a year ; D

GS has been very fortunate in the structure of their best players contracts. They look amazing right now!

nycericanguy
10-31-2016, 10:36 PM
yea Steven Adams should not be making 25% of the cap. wasn't too long ago guys like him were getting 5-10% of the cap. An average starter used to get around 10% of the cap. I mean Jeff Teague for instance, who falls in that "average starter" category is in the final year of his $8m per year contract. He signed that when the cap was around $65m. about 12% of the cap. Now a guy like him would get 20-25m... or 20-25% of the cap. so its not just about the cap going up, any average player is getting 20-25% of the cap now.

The system is broken. Max contract is basically now the qualifying contract a team must offer in hopes of signing someone.

da ThRONe
10-31-2016, 11:04 PM
If this is the cost to sign a player early I'd rather just wait with the option to match later.

Blink
10-31-2016, 11:22 PM
Yeah no way Pistons can afford to give KCP $20 million a year.

Drummond max
Tobias Harris 17 million
Jackson at 16 I believe

If KCP gets 20 that's way too much in with a good young team that won't be winning anything.

But also with LeBron in the East what does it really matter.

Chronz
10-31-2016, 11:51 PM
yea Steven Adams should not be making 25% of the cap. wasn't too long ago guys like him were getting 5-10% of the cap. An average starter used to get around 10% of the cap. I mean Jeff Teague for instance, who falls in that "average starter" category is in the final year of his $8m per year contract. He signed that when the cap was around $65m. about 12% of the cap. Now a guy like him would get 20-25m... or 20-25% of the cap. so its not just about the cap going up, any average player is getting 20-25% of the cap now.

The system is broken. Max contract is basically now the qualifying contract a team must offer in hopes of signing someone.
It will correct itself in time. Right now teams rightly don't give a ****. In about 7 or 8 years right before the tv deal expires teams may regret some later signings but right now you may as well spend that money.

europagnpilgrim
11-01-2016, 02:00 AM
Melo is a steal now baby.

New York had to make that extension work given what they gave up to acquire him initially, and he was/is worth every penny seeing that Adams/Gobert just got like 100 mill each, they couldn't single handedly lead any team to a playoff birth let alone a previous 17 win team like Melo did when first drafted

these deals along with Conley and others are just mind boggling, to not make a 1st team all nba or even a all star trip and get 100-150mill is like the biggest heist in sports history

Jeffy25
11-01-2016, 03:03 AM
If this is the cost to sign a player early I'd rather just wait with the option to match later.

Right, Adams wasn't going to get much more.

tredigs
11-01-2016, 04:13 AM
New York had to make that extension work given what they gave up to acquire him initially, and he was/is worth every penny seeing that Adams/Gobert just got like 100 mill each, they couldn't single handedly lead any team to a playoff birth let alone a previous 17 win team like Melo did when first drafted

these deals along with Conley and others are just mind boggling, to not make a 1st team all nba or even a all star trip and get 100-150mill is like the biggest heist in sports history

It's all relative. The players make more because the league makes more. The heist would be by the owners if they weren't getting these contracts.

Vinylman
11-01-2016, 07:09 AM
GS has been very fortunate in the structure of their best players contracts. They look amazing right now!

their entire situation is driven by Steph's ridiculously below market deal... they haven't really done anything special to this point...

As for the deals being handed out... I guess this signals that the new CBA will continue to have caps on players salaries because if they remove the cap these deals are a joke

Vinylman
11-01-2016, 07:20 AM
It's all relative. The players make more because the league makes more. The heist would be by the owners if they weren't getting these contracts.

relative.... LMFAO

the top players and the real stars of the league are being massively undervalued.

The top single season salary ever paid to a player occurred in 1997/1998 when the salary cap was peanuts

The rise in mediocre player salaries is simply a function of continued suppression of top player salaries... nothing more nothing less

nycericanguy
11-01-2016, 09:35 AM
yea its the mediocre players benefiting more than anyone.

Lebron James still gets $30m, Mike Conley $31m, Adams $25m

the true stars are getting robbed. IDK why contacts are artificially limited... might as well just pay every player the same $15m salary...lol.

Let the market pay the stars... it makes so much more sense than limiting what the stars make.

How would GSW have a superteam if Curry & KD could each get 50m+ on the open market? If stars want to team up, make them leave $25m+ per year on the table

warfelg
11-01-2016, 09:49 AM
yea its the mediocre players benefiting more than anyone.

Lebron James still gets $30m, Mike Conley $31m, Adams $25m

the true stars are getting robbed. IDK why contacts are artificially limited... might as well just pay every player the same $15m salary...lol.

Let the market pay the stars... it makes so much more sense than limiting what the stars make.

How would GSW have a superteam if Curry & KD could each get 50m+ on the open market? If stars want to team up, make them leave $25m+ per year on the table

And that's where we get the "how to do that cap talk".

Do you do a soft cap + 1? Hard cap + 2?

I think an interesting one:
Make salaries a percent of the cap no matter what it is. So if you set the max percent for a player at 35%, on a $100 mil contract that's $35 mil. But if the cap jumped to $150 mil, the same player would get $52.5 mil.

Effectively with that you eliminate space thanks to cap rises. Two max percent guys and 70% of your space is gone. If said player isn't getting max, it's flat based on a percent of that years cap.

I will say one thing though:
This years cap situation was an extraordinary circumstance we almost will never see again. I blame the owners for not taking a hard line stance on not allowing a one season cap jump. Lots of the lower end NBA team owners were quite against it.

da ThRONe
11-01-2016, 09:51 AM
It's all relative. The players make more because the league makes more. The heist would be by the owners if they weren't getting these contracts.

It's not relative it's just terrible decisions by GM's. Sure with the cap increase the money will increase the best way to judge a contract is the percentage of the cap. No way (and I'm a big fan of Adams wanted Demps to trade back into the draft to get him in 2013 he's the perfect 5 for Anthony Davis on the Pelicans) is Steven Adams worth 20-25 percent a teams cap. Maybe 3 years from now it's different, but these deals aren't good examples of cap allocation.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-01-2016, 09:52 AM
Isn't cable TV more less paying the NBA players entire salaries? So owners getting rich any way collecting all the ticket sales.

nycericanguy
11-01-2016, 10:03 AM
And that's where we get the "how to do that cap talk".

Do you do a soft cap + 1? Hard cap + 2?

I think an interesting one:
Make salaries a percent of the cap no matter what it is. So if you set the max percent for a player at 35%, on a $100 mil contract that's $35 mil. But if the cap jumped to $150 mil, the same player would get $52.5 mil.

Effectively with that you eliminate space thanks to cap rises. Two max percent guys and 70% of your space is gone. If said player isn't getting max, it's flat based on a percent of that years cap.

I will say one thing though:
This years cap situation was an extraordinary circumstance we almost will never see again. I blame the owners for not taking a hard line stance on not allowing a one season cap jump. Lots of the lower end NBA team owners were quite against it.

same cap rules, just no max contracts. no need to overhaul everything.

Let teams decide how much Lebron or Curry or KD are worth. a team can offer them $60m, but then only have $40m to fill out roster.

Vinylman
11-01-2016, 10:57 AM
And that's where we get the "how to do that cap talk".

Do you do a soft cap + 1? Hard cap + 2?

I think an interesting one:
Make salaries a percent of the cap no matter what it is. So if you set the max percent for a player at 35%, on a $100 mil contract that's $35 mil. But if the cap jumped to $150 mil, the same player would get $52.5 mil.

Effectively with that you eliminate space thanks to cap rises. Two max percent guys and 70% of your space is gone. If said player isn't getting max, it's flat based on a percent of that years cap.

I will say one thing though:
This years cap situation was an extraordinary circumstance we almost will never see again. I blame the owners for not taking a hard line stance on not allowing a one season cap jump. Lots of the lower end NBA team owners were quite against it.

nah... it is real simple

set a hard cap at whatever you want... eliminate the exceptions (other than vet min's)...

NO TPE's
NO BAE
NO MLE
NO NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then let the free market handle the rest...

No superstar in his prime is leaving an extra $15 million a year on the table

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-01-2016, 11:12 AM
I'd even consider removing RFA's rules. If they sign with another team previous team gets a compensation pick depending how well that team does either a first or second rounder kinda like NFL. If every team eventually has a D league team then possibly a third round draft as well. Probably third round when two new expansion teams added as well. Third round make it easy for farming.

da ThRONe
11-01-2016, 11:21 AM
I'd even consider removing RFA's rules. If they sign with another team previous team gets a compensation pick depending how well that team does either a first or second rounder kinda like NFL. If every team eventually has a D league team then possibly a third round draft as well. Probably third round when two new expansion teams added as well. Third round make it easy for farming.

I like RFA I would just make rookie contracts 3 years instead of 4. I think it's better for parity to let teams hold on to their young stars.

I'm ok with max contracts they just need to be higher. I'd say 50% of the cap would be fine. I agree though get rid of all the trade exceptions. I'm cool with a soft cap that allow owners that's willing to spend to keep the team they build organically together.

mrblisterdundee
11-01-2016, 11:42 AM
OKC Thunder: Steven Adams signed to 4 years - 100 million. Oladipo signed to 4 years - 84 million.
Utah Jazz: Rudy Gobert signed to 4 years - 102 million.
Minnesota T-Wolves: Dieng nearing deal of 4 years - 64 million.
Update: Cody Zeller stays with Charlotte on 4 for $56 million (structured backloaded).

Oladipo probably got paid a bit much, but Oklahoma City is pretty desperate. He and Adams could be their top stars a couple years from now. Adams make sense, considering what a young, two-way big man and a credible defensive anchor he is. I'd argue that he's as valuable as Gobert.
Dieng has proven that all he needs is some playing time. He and Towns are one of the best young front courts in the NBA.
If Charlotte's willing to give Batum $24 million a season, then I guess Zeller's worth $14 million. He's not that great on the boards or passing, but Charlotte's another one of those teams that can't be picky.

mrblisterdundee
11-01-2016, 11:53 AM
their entire situation is driven by Steph's ridiculously below market deal... they haven't really done anything special to this point...

Give the Warriors credit for their forethought. Stephen Curry's contract is just one of the few special things that team has done. They maxed out Klay Thompson, who now makes the same amount as Evan Turner. Draymond Green at $16.4 million per season is also pretty special about $1 million per season below what he could have earned, and far less than what he's actually worth. Golden State practically has the three most valuable contracts in the NBA right now, besides John Wall's. And Curry doesn't ***** like Wall.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-01-2016, 12:04 PM
Just when I thought Plumlee's 4/$52M was putrid.

Vinylman
11-01-2016, 12:40 PM
Give the Warriors credit for their forethought. Stephen Curry's contract is just one of the few special things that team has done. They maxed out Klay Thompson, who now makes the same amount as Evan Turner. Draymond Green at $16.4 million per season is also pretty special about $1 million per season below what he could have earned, and far less than what he's actually worth. Golden State practically has the three most valuable contracts in the NBA right now, besides John Wall's. And Curry doesn't ***** like Wall.

so we are suppose to give GS some wicked good credit for signing a guy to a contract with a league imposed cap

mmmmmkay :rolleyes:

Do you understand that the contract he signed was MORE than he could have received as an RFA? People just don't get it... the incumbent team has all the leverage on guys coming off rookie contracts. I guess he should have become an RFA... received less money and played a whole year (risking injury) with no $69 million backstop... yep... those GS guys are great negotiators :rolleyes:

And by all means... lets compare his deal to with deals signed after the cap exploded... :rolleyes:

Your analysis skills are off the charts...

FlashBolt
11-01-2016, 01:45 PM
Yeah, Westbrook is gone now. Adams is a good player but getting paid like a max. He can't score unless he gets the ball from within 4 feet. Great energy/toughness but we can find guys like that for way less. Oladipo.. idk, bad start for him so far but it's tough to find SG's like him in the market these days. As for Kanter, we need to get him traded. Can't play him 20-23 minutes and in spurts.

hugepatsfan
11-01-2016, 02:54 PM
I'm most shocked that Boston and Olynyk didn't work something out.

Not surprising to me. Would take us out of the running to offer a max contract this offseason. We can make it work if we keep him at his cap hold and then go over the cap to sign him if we wanted. He isn't good enough to take yourself out of the running for a max deal over. Not saying we will get a max FA even, just that you have to keep the chance open.

tredigs
11-01-2016, 03:53 PM
relative.... LMFAO

the top players and the real stars of the league are being massively undervalued.

The top single season salary ever paid to a player occurred in 1997/1998 when the salary cap was peanuts

The rise in mediocre player salaries is simply a function of continued suppression of top player salaries... nothing more nothing less

No dude, unless you want a league of no deals that can last longer than 2 years (the length of MJ's super-contract, which was a pay-back demanded by him and his agent for a decades worth of the highest marketed team in history at $2-4 mil annual contracts), you can't have a single player on a 5 year deal making >50% of your cap on GUARANTEED CONTRACTS. And trust me, the Players Association is much happier with the majority of the players being able to get paid guaranteed money, then it would be if certain superstars (or young talents that a team is simply taking a massive gamble on... which is what would occur as often as not) at $50 mil/year. That player goes down, sees a quick decline or simply gets injured and is never right again? Guess what, you are a fan of an organization with less than no hope until that deal expires and you try to hit the lotto on the next super-contract your GM hands out. The reality is that in a league with only ~8 or so players capable of truly carrying a franchise, you'll see guys like Demarcus Cousins landing the super-contracts, which would only serve to make the Kings even worse than they already are.

Terrible, terrible idea.

nycericanguy
11-01-2016, 06:07 PM
Prime Mosgov age 26-30 made $4m per year of a $60m cap or 6% of the cap.

Mosgov coming off injury at 31-34 - $16m or 16% of the cap.

Same player too, not like he got better to justify a huge raise.

Role players are essentially getting 200-300% raises in terms of % of the cap. It's insane. How can a team fill out a roster when you have to pay fringe starters 15-25% of the cap?

tredigs
11-01-2016, 07:33 PM
Prime Mosgov age 26-30 made $4m per year of a $60m cap or 6% of the cap.

Mosgov coming off injury at 31-34 - $16m or 16% of the cap.

Same player too, not like he got better to justify a huge raise.

Role players are essentially getting 200-300% raises in terms of % of the cap. It's insane. How can a team fill out a roster when you have to pay fringe starters 15-25% of the cap?

This logic doesn't really make any sense. As you said yourself, he's not simply getting a monetary raise, they're using a significant amount of cap-space on him (they have a lot of rookie contracts, they can afford it for now). Hint: If a "fringe starter" is garnering 25% of the cap, then the GM is not doing their job, and they won't be able to do that more than once before they're roster is filled with rookie contracts and vet-mins. Mozgov's signing was seen as the worst of the summer, btw.

LA_Raiders
11-01-2016, 11:44 PM
Wow overpaid all of them

mrblisterdundee
11-02-2016, 01:26 PM
so we are suppose to give GS some wicked good credit for signing a guy to a contract with a league imposed cap
mmmmmkay :rolleyes:
Do you understand that the contract he signed was MORE than he could have received as an RFA? People just don't get it... the incumbent team has all the leverage on guys coming off rookie contracts. I guess he should have become an RFA... received less money and played a whole year (risking injury) with no $69 million backstop... yep... those GS guys are great negotiators :rolleyes:
And by all means... lets compare his deal to with deals signed after the cap exploded... :rolleyes:
Your analysis skills are off the charts...

Golden State took a big gamble on Curry, considering his history of injuries. But they got him to give up at least $15 million of the course of the contract from what they could have given him. That contract the single smartest move an NBA front office has made in a long time.
They got Green to sign for $11 million less than they could have paid him. They avoided signing Thompson to a true max deal, as well.
Because of all those factors, the team was able to sign Durant. They're also why the team will likely be able to keep Curry when he gets a max deal.
So yes; I'm giving them credit for all those smart moves. But by all means, keep posting your rolling eyes emoji.

TheDish87
11-02-2016, 01:40 PM
Prime Mosgov age 26-30 made $4m per year of a $60m cap or 6% of the cap.

Mosgov coming off injury at 31-34 - $16m or 16% of the cap.

Same player too, not like he got better to justify a huge raise.

Role players are essentially getting 200-300% raises in terms of % of the cap. It's insane. How can a team fill out a roster when you have to pay fringe starters 15-25% of the cap?

dont pay them?

nycericanguy
11-02-2016, 01:53 PM
This logic doesn't really make any sense. As you said yourself, he's not simply getting a monetary raise, they're using a significant amount of cap-space on him (they have a lot of rookie contracts, they can afford it for now). Hint: If a "fringe starter" is garnering 25% of the cap, then the GM is not doing their job, and they won't be able to do that more than once before they're roster is filled with rookie contracts and vet-mins. Mozgov's signing was seen as the worst of the summer, btw.

exactly, so what logic doesnt make sense? these guys are making 200-300% more then they used to.

not just Mosgov, all these guys are getting huge raises.

nycericanguy
11-02-2016, 01:53 PM
dont pay them?

certainly an option, but then you lose them because someone else will pay them.

Look at DET now for instance, they are going to have to pay KCP $20m+ per year, 20% of the cap, for a fringe player who would usually get 8-10% of the cap.

mngopher35
11-02-2016, 02:01 PM
I don't think Dieng's contract was that bad, I think worst case there would be takers if we wanted to move it down the line. With the prices being handed out now this will likely be the norm for players and I think the only reason it got done is that he would likely get more on the open market.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Gorgui+Dieng&player_id1_select=Gorgui+Dieng&player_id1=dienggo01&y1=2016&hint=Steven+Adams&player_id2_select=Steven+Adams&player_id2=adamsst01&y2=2016&hint=Rudy+Gobert&player_id3_select=Rudy+Gobert&player_id3=goberru01&y3=2016

Here he is compared to Gobert/Stevens statistically and he also had a slightly higher RPM last year than both as well and we got him for like 40 mil less. He isn't as strong defensively but he has range/offensive abilities they don't to help cover that gap. Just saying I don't think 16 mil for a solid starting big man is going to be considered high with what we have seen so far on the contracts.

TheDish87
11-02-2016, 03:53 PM
certainly an option, but then you lose them because someone else will pay them.

Look at DET now for instance, they are going to have to pay KCP $20m+ per year, 20% of the cap, for a fringe player who would usually get 8-10% of the cap.

again, dont pay him. thats what scouting is for, find a player who can give similar production for less cost. This is one thing Hinkie did not get enough credit for while in Philly. Coangelo doesnt think Noel is worth 100 mil so he decided not to pay him and let someone else bite that bullet.

nycericanguy
11-02-2016, 04:51 PM
again, dont pay him. thats what scouting is for, find a player who can give similar production for less cost. This is one thing Hinkie did not get enough credit for while in Philly. Coangelo doesnt think Noel is worth 100 mil so he decided not to pay him and let someone else bite that bullet.

Did Hinkie really find any hidden gems though for cheap though? It's easier said than done.

I understand letting Noel go and letting another team pay him $100m... but then that just means PHI wasted a lottery pick. Wasn't he a top 5 pick? They probably should have traded him when they drafted Okafor, but now his contract situation and injuries make it difficult to move him. I'm sure a team would pay him $100m, but would a team pay him $100m AND give up assets for him?

TheDish87
11-02-2016, 07:31 PM
Hinkie found some useable gems i guess you could say if that makes sense? Like Covington is a pretty decent 3nD guy, could start for a handful of teams i think and Hollis Thompson has proven to be a rotational player. I dont wanna get into a whole thing on Hinkie but just the first two who come to mind as cheap yet productive players. But even if he didnt find anyone he didnt tie up the cap and put us in NBA purgatory as a result. Noel has enough value to get a decent player back i think, prob depends how he looks when he gets back in a few weeks. ITs a tough spot for teams like Detroit to be in and i get it but why max out your own guys if youre not confident you can at least be a fringe conference contender?

nycericanguy
11-03-2016, 11:38 AM
Hinkie found some useable gems i guess you could say if that makes sense? Like Covington is a pretty decent 3nD guy, could start for a handful of teams i think and Hollis Thompson has proven to be a rotational player. I dont wanna get into a whole thing on Hinkie but just the first two who come to mind as cheap yet productive players. But even if he didnt find anyone he didnt tie up the cap and put us in NBA purgatory as a result. Noel has enough value to get a decent player back i think, prob depends how he looks when he gets back in a few weeks. ITs a tough spot for teams like Detroit to be in and i get it but why max out your own guys if youre not confident you can at least be a fringe conference contender?

I'll give you Thompson I guess, but Covington hasn't proven to be anything but a raw numbers guy. Even the worst teams will score 90ppg, so SOMEONE has to score those points. I don't think Cov is a legit NBA rotation player.

But anyway my point was you kinda made it seem like it was easy to replace production with guys that cost less. It's really not easy at all. Losing key pieces or paying them $20-25m is a tough spot that teams are being put in.

TheDish87
11-03-2016, 12:27 PM
its certainly not easy, i wasnt suggesting that it is.Unless youre the Spurs bcuz they always make it look easy. Its a really tough spot but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and realize your teams ceiling. There will always be guys like Crowder, Bradley, Bazemore, etc out there you can find for a better deal, you just have to be patient.

Hawkeye15
11-03-2016, 03:18 PM
its certainly not easy, i wasnt suggesting that it is.Unless youre the Spurs bcuz they always make it look easy. Its a really tough spot but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and realize your teams ceiling. There will always be guys like Crowder, Bradley, Bazemore, etc out there you can find for a better deal, you just have to be patient.

you guys have to keep in mind as well, teams needed to get to a salary floor, and with how deals are structured the next few years (from the old cap), teams will continue to spend the next 2-3 summers.

My Wolves for instance, currently have $80+ million in cap space in the summer of 2018 for example.

Best time ever to be a FA.

TheDish87
11-03-2016, 04:04 PM
eh the cap floor doesnt matter, if you dont reach it you just split the difference to the players as a bonus after the season. We obviously dont know how these negotiations though but it feels like teams go right for the max offer just to get it over with.

Gibby23
11-03-2016, 04:12 PM
you guys have to keep in mind as well, teams needed to get to a salary floor, and with how deals are structured the next few years (from the old cap), teams will continue to spend the next 2-3 summers.

My Wolves for instance, currently have $80+ million in cap space in the summer of 2018 for example.

Best time ever to be a FA.

half of that will go to Wiggins and Lavine, unless they play on the QO. Also, the Wolves probably sign some free agents next summer also. They aren't a tanking team, so I don't see them carry over much, maybe enough for one max slot.

Hawkeye15
11-03-2016, 04:51 PM
eh the cap floor doesnt matter, if you dont reach it you just split the difference to the players as a bonus after the season. We obviously dont know how these negotiations though but it feels like teams go right for the max offer just to get it over with.

you won't compete if you don't spend.

Hawkeye15
11-03-2016, 04:51 PM
half of that will go to Wiggins and Lavine, unless they play on the QO. Also, the Wolves probably sign some free agents next summer also. They aren't a tanking team, so I don't see them carry over much, maybe enough for one max slot.

well yeah. All I mean is, a ton of teams will have a lot of room the next few years. Don't be shocked when the spending spree continues.

TheDish87
11-04-2016, 08:48 AM
you won't compete if you don't spend.

plenty of teams spend and still dont compete and then get stuck with an unmovable contract. Doesnt Miami have 20 mil invested in 3 players? Theyre not going to compete for anything but an 8th seed.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-04-2016, 10:03 AM
you guys have to keep in mind as well, teams needed to get to a salary floor, and with how deals are structured the next few years (from the old cap), teams will continue to spend the next 2-3 summers.

My Wolves for instance, currently have $80+ million in cap space in the summer of 2018 for example.

Best time ever to be a FA.

Cap space is only nice if you lure in the studs. Heck Mavs missed out a few times. Only so much talent to go around. Its not fun when the dust clears and stuck with bag of money in hand yet. Then ya become that team that eats dead weight for picks. Also some of that $80M will be going to your own players as well. Wiggins probably gets $20M per or more. I know my Parker will soon. I'm sure LaVine will fetch $15M to $20M per as well. Then have to leave some cushion for KAT farther down the road for his payday.

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 12:28 PM
plenty of teams spend and still dont compete and then get stuck with an unmovable contract. Doesnt Miami have 20 mil invested in 3 players? Theyre not going to compete for anything but an 8th seed.

You have to spend to compete. These 1 year or 2 year deals don't help teams compete. Look at the sixers, they have a bunch of draft picks, they have a bunch of cap space. The plan was to show the growth of the draft picks and lure a big name. They didn't do that and soon they will have to make a choice of paying the assets they tanked for and let them eat cap space, or get a minimal return on the guys they tanked for like Noel and Oak, or letting a guy like Noel walk to save cap space. What exactly is a team like the sixers saving cap space for?

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 12:34 PM
Maybe the NBA should institute a Tiered contracts system, just like they have qualifiers in place now for the Derrick Rose max rule.

Maybe something like this

MAX deal - 35% of cap. to get a max deal a player must have made an All NBA team at least once in the past 2-3 years.

Tier 2 deal - 25% of cap? ormaybe somewhere around $20m per year - to get this a player must have made at least 1 all star team in the past 2 or 3 years. Yes I know these all star games can be trivial, but the NBA already has qualifiers like this in the Rose rule and pretty much any award given is subject to strutiny.

tier 3 deal - $15m per year? - or $20 of cap? To qualify a player must have started over 50% of team games played in the past 3-4 years. Also would exclude injury prone players from getting this kind of deal if they missed alot of games.

and then after that teams can pay the remaining guys whatever they want.

I just think its silly that any average player can get a max deal now. Meanwhile the #1 pick in the draft maeks $4m? I think the guys that really need a raise are rookie scale contracts. You shouldnt have 1st round picks making under $1m.

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 12:37 PM
Maybe the NBA should institute a Tiered contracts system, just like they have qualifiers in place now for the Derrick Rose max rule.

Maybe something like this

MAX deal - 35% of cap. to get a max deal a player must have made an All NBA team at least once in the past 2-3 years.

Tier 2 deal - 25% of cap? ormaybe somewhere around $20m per year - to get this a player must have made at least 1 all star team in the past 2 or 3 years. Yes I know these all star games can be trivial, but the NBA already has qualifiers like this in the Rose rule and pretty much any award given is subject to strutiny.

tier 3 deal - $15m per year? - or $20 of cap? To qualify a player must have started over 50% of team games played in the past 3-4 years. Also would exclude injury prone players from getting this kind of deal if they missed alot of games.

and then after that teams can pay the remaining guys whatever they want.

I just think its silly that any average player can get a max deal now. Meanwhile the #1 pick in the draft maeks $4m? I think the guys that really need a raise are rookie scale contracts. You shouldnt have 1st round picks making under $1m.

You can't put stipulations on like that on someone's pay. A man has a right to earn what someone is willing to pay him.

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 12:39 PM
You can't put stipulations on like that on someone's pay. A man has a right to earn what someone is willing to pay him.

you do realize the entire contract structure currently does just that right? otherwise someone would probably pay Lebron $250m per year.

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 12:51 PM
you do realize the entire contract structure currently does just that right? otherwise someone would probably pay Lebron $250m per year.

But it is based on seniority mostly, you can't put a bunch of All Star and games played stipulations in. The players would never go for it, like a 0% chance they vote yes for a structure like that.

TheDish87
11-04-2016, 12:56 PM
You have to spend to compete. These 1 year or 2 year deals don't help teams compete. Look at the sixers, they have a bunch of draft picks, they have a bunch of cap space. The plan was to show the growth of the draft picks and lure a big name. They didn't do that and soon they will have to make a choice of paying the assets they tanked for and let them eat cap space, or get a minimal return on the guys they tanked for like Noel and Oak, or letting a guy like Noel walk to save cap space. What exactly is a team like the sixers saving cap space for?

we werent supposed to lure a big FA yet though. When Simmons comes back and plays as advertised and Embiid remains healthy we arguably become the top FA destination. Noel will be traded, i couldnt even begin to guess what for though. Everyone else is under control for 2+ years so that leaves plenty of time to lure a big FA or a quality player in a trade with the cap room. Signing a guy like KCP for 4/80-100 isnt helping a team like Detroit compete either.

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 01:00 PM
But it is based on seniority mostly, you can't put a bunch of All Star and games played stipulations in. The players would never go for it, like a 0% chance they vote yes for a structure like that.

well I think the system is broken. We have a league now where an average player gets paid as much as the best players. yet rookies get paid almost nothing.

So it's not a matter of taking money away from players but rather re-distributing it so that teams can build a team better and more responsibly.

i'm not so sure the players wouldn't go for something like that. Sure an average player would get less. but rookies would get more. so it evens out. I think the #1 pick for instance should get around $10m and have it scale down to the rest of the picks.

Its kinda silly that the #1 pick gets $4-5m, with a 105m cap, when they made about the same when the cap was half of that. also if picks made more, it would even out a picks value. Because right now picks have become over-valued because a rookie makes almost nothing.

TheDish87
11-04-2016, 01:23 PM
in no way should the #1 pick get 10mil before stepping on the court.

5ass
11-04-2016, 03:00 PM
well I think the system is broken. We have a league now where an average player gets paid as much as the best players. yet rookies get paid almost nothing.

So it's not a matter of taking money away from players but rather re-distributing it so that teams can build a team better and more responsibly.

i'm not so sure the players wouldn't go for something like that. Sure an average player would get less. but rookies would get more. so it evens out. I think the #1 pick for instance should get around $10m and have it scale down to the rest of the picks.

Its kinda silly that the #1 pick gets $4-5m, with a 105m cap, when they made about the same when the cap was half of that. also if picks made more, it would even out a picks value. Because right now picks have become over-valued because a rookie makes almost nothing.

Agreed.

Gibby23
11-04-2016, 03:23 PM
well I think the system is broken. We have a league now where an average player gets paid as much as the best players. yet rookies get paid almost nothing.

So it's not a matter of taking money away from players but rather re-distributing it so that teams can build a team better and more responsibly.

i'm not so sure the players wouldn't go for something like that. Sure an average player would get less. but rookies would get more. so it evens out. I think the #1 pick for instance should get around $10m and have it scale down to the rest of the picks.

Its kinda silly that the #1 pick gets $4-5m, with a 105m cap, when they made about the same when the cap was half of that. also if picks made more, it would even out a picks value. Because right now picks have become over-valued because a rookie makes almost nothing.

The majority of NBA players are average players, that is why this system works. It let's all the players get paid. And rookies don't have a say, so the current players are not going to vote to give unproven guys trying to take their jobs more money.

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 03:23 PM
in no way should the #1 pick get 10mil before stepping on the court.

didnt they get around $4m when the cap was $56m? why shouldn't they benefit from the cap rise?

right now it seems the only players benefiting from the explosion of money are average to above average players.

rookies arent' benefiting, neither are older vets as the vet min is still only 1.3m. the true Superstars havent benefited too much either as their value is artificially kept low.

The real winners have been the middle tier average to good but not great type players like Adams, Parsons, Conley...etc...

NBA needs to spread the wealth better.

Heck maybe make the max 40-50% of the cap and have the qualifier very difficult such as must have made all nba team, been top 10 in MVP voting AND made all defensive team in any of the prior 3 years.

and then scale down from there.

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 03:24 PM
The majority of NBA players are average players, that is why this system works. It let's all the players get paid. And rookies don't have a say, so the current players are not going to vote to give unproven guys trying to take their jobs more money.

You really think a system in which Mike Conley, Batum and steven adams who have never even made a single all star team between them make as much as the best players in the game is working?

meanwhile Karl Anthony Towns is making $4-5m and cant get a market contract for 4 more years.

TheDish87
11-04-2016, 04:03 PM
make it 10mil then you draft Anthony Bennett or Kwame Brown, etc and your stuck with an unmovable contract.

nycericanguy
11-04-2016, 04:14 PM
make it 10mil then you draft Anthony Bennett or Kwame Brown, etc and your stuck with an unmovable contract.

no issue with that, teams need to draft well. But rookie contracts are only guaranteed for what... 2 years? teams can decline 3rd and 4th years, so its not a big deal. it's still less than 10% of the cap. Rookies should be getting a piece of the pie too.

I did read that the next CBA will increase rookie salaries, but I dont think they are addressing the max salary.

ChiSox219
11-05-2016, 02:40 PM
Im sorry to bring it up again but it ****ing baffles me that OKC will pay Kanter, Oladipo, and Steven Adams each more next year than if they had maxed out Harden.

kobe4thewinbang
11-05-2016, 08:21 PM
Well, I just hope these players produce. The cap is crazy now, but 25 million for Adams seems a bit premature even after they beat Spurs last season. Dieng makes more sense to me, and specimens like Gobert, and quick guys like Oladipo 'justify' the big contracts more. It's surprising Shroeder got so little.

europagnpilgrim
11-06-2016, 12:17 AM
Im sorry to bring it up again but it ****ing baffles me that OKC will pay Kanter, Oladipo, and Steven Adams each more next year than if they had maxed out Harden.

I am pretty much in the same boat, all over a measly 5million dollars more that Harden had asked for to stay put, Adams is the biggest stretch of a deal I have almost ever seen, a guy who can get 13ppg and 8rpg and set good screens gets 25 mill per season is almost a travesty in my bball book

that would have been a dynasty right about now, at least making it to the Finals because I felt they had another 2-4 trips in them after that 12' finals lost had they stayed together for another 5-6yrs, but we will never know now

europagnpilgrim
11-06-2016, 12:21 AM
Well, I just hope these players produce. The cap is crazy now, but 25 million for Adams seems a bit premature even after they beat Spurs last season. Dieng makes more sense to me, and specimens like Gobert, and quick guys like Oladipo 'justify' the big contracts more. It's surprising Shroeder got so little.

Gobert is a specimen only in height/wingspan, when I think of dominant specimen I think of Shaq/Dipper/Admiral/Lebron/The Answer(lil version)/KD etc., because they put up the numbers/headlines to go along with getting that type of deal, not a career 7ppg and 9rpg guy or whatever Gobert numbers are, there is no justification in him getting that type of $$ or Oladipo, they both should have make around what Dieng got and Dieng should have gotten around 40mill total with a old or new salary cap

poleandreel
11-06-2016, 01:25 AM
Adams is being severely underrated here. He's a very very good defender. Won't get 7 blocks like deandre but plays incredibly smart team defense. He also has improved his offensive game alot this year and is a solid passer. He might not be "worth" 25mm a year but it's not as bad as you guys are making it out to be. That's the going rate for a 23 year old 7 footer that plays good d and is still developing.

And as far as Oladipo...he's 23, is a very good defender, and has all the skills to be a top notch offensive player. His deal is actually cheap compared to what some other players got (McCollum for example)

europagnpilgrim
11-06-2016, 04:35 AM
Adams is being severely underrated here. He's a very very good defender. Won't get 7 blocks like deandre but plays incredibly smart team defense. He also has improved his offensive game alot this year and is a solid passer. He might not be "worth" 25mm a year but it's not as bad as you guys are making it out to be. That's the going rate for a 23 year old 7 footer that plays good d and is still developing.

And as far as Oladipo...he's 23, is a very good defender, and has all the skills to be a top notch offensive player. His deal is actually cheap compared to what some other players got (McCollum for example)

Defense is not worth 25mill per season, or setting good screens with that good defense, if that's the going rate then it is what it be but he is not severely underrated at all, he is a 13ppg and 8rpg guy that is a 7 footer and Oladipo cant light it up like McCollum, no matter how you look at it the nba sell tickets with people who can get buckets in the form of a dunk/3pt or mid range/acrobat moves and McCollum can do that better than Oladipo, or at least he has shown it more recently