PDA

View Full Version : Serious question: Do you think Warriors fans are actually happy about getting KD?



poleandreel
10-22-2016, 05:15 PM
Of course swapping a mediocre player in Barnes for a perennial MVP player in KD is amazing in a vacuum, but the Warriors were different. They had a very likable team and had become the darlings of the NBA. Curry had become the new face of the NBA. They basically had a fully homegrown team in Curry, Klay, Barnes, Draymond, etc. They had a rookie coach who instilled an offense that took the league by storm. They even won the championship after years of being an awful team, after concerns about Curry's long term health, after relegating former all star David Lee to the bench, etc.

Then they went out and broke the all time wins record a year later. Yea there were "haters" who wanted to beat them every night but everyone knew that they were a team that endured years of losing and built from within and people respected them. Now, that is totally not the case.

Now, the only people who like the Warriors are their own fans. They destroyed their media love, they destroyed Curry's golden child image, they destroyed a very likable team. In my opinion only part of being a fan is enjoying the success your team has. The other part of fandom is getting excited for a good upcoming matchup, or not knowing if they're going to win, or wondering if they will win the series, and then seeing what people in the media or even other fans are saying about your team and players.

Seeing constant negative headlines has to get annoying for Warriors fans. Hearing every announcer and former NBA player denouncing the quality of their future championships because KD sold out has to be annoying. All i know is, as a huge Lebron and NBA fan, i would not have wanted Lebron to come to my team if they were already a championship contender.

I can almost guarantee that when the Cavs play the Warriors in the finals in June, 99% of people will be rooting for LBJ and the Cavs. To me, having your team being the villian/hated is not fun at all...you can pretend that the "it's us against the world and we want to prove people wrong" is fun to root for but it's not and Miami admitted that after they won. It's a facade that you put up because you have no other option.

I'd be pissed if I was a warriors fan and KD came and ruined everything about them. Thoughts?

nycericanguy
10-22-2016, 05:37 PM
I get what you're saying. I always use the Yankees as an example, because I was a HUGE yankees fan growing up.

I remember the '96-99 titles were magical led by our homegrown players.

Fast forward to 2009 championship... not so magical. We went out that year and spent $250m on all the top free agents... it wasn't fun or fair. We were SUPPOSED to win, and key guys were not "real" yankees.

I don't think GSW fans will enjoy the coming titles as much as the 2015 title. GSW is SUPPOSED to win now, and their best player or 2nd best player at worst, just came along for an easy ride. He's not a real homegrown talent to be proud of. And of course in the NBA one player changes things much more than 1 player in baseball. I think even GSW fans will admit they probably don't really respect KD. He's there and they'll support and cheer for him, but do they really respect him?

Don't get me wrong I"m sure it will be fun for GSW fans to watch, but it does dilute things a lot. Just like MIA fans didn't really appreciate the big 3 IMO... that was a team that was so much more stacked than anyone else that anything but a title was a total bust.

BKLYNpigeon
10-22-2016, 06:13 PM
It will be fun to watch. I don't really care about all of the drama. To get all worked up about someones personal decision is dumb. Its just the NBA its just sports, not Life. Its entertainment and we have no say about what goes on. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

MJNetsIsles
10-22-2016, 06:36 PM
I think they should just drown out the noise from the opposing fans and media. It all will pass in time. What matters in sports, is winning Championships and going from Harrison Barnes to getting Kevin Durant gives Golden State a massive upgrade and window to win.

Are the fans happy? It's 50-50. He dimmed their darling image as you said. But he's also setting them up nicely for a ring. If they take home a Championship, they'll love the guy. If they fail to win under him, he'll be hated and for good reason.

More-Than-Most
10-22-2016, 06:39 PM
Stop.... They just got a top 3 player in the world... If their not happy their ********. I dont give a **** how much of a bullseye is on their team... They just added Durant to a curry/green/klay team.... please.

Also they didnt just upgrade... They upgraded a player who fits the position and team perfectly.... This isnt like adding a center and forcing that style of play... They adding someone who literally fits perfectly.

FlashBolt
10-22-2016, 07:18 PM
If you're a diehard fan of your team and KD going to it doesn't make you happy, IDK what does. I'm on the other end of the stick this season and you just gotta appreciate some of these players your franchise got the chance to see. I'll hate Durant probably up to the ASG but he'll always be the greatest player of our history.

europagnpilgrim
10-22-2016, 07:40 PM
It will be fun to watch. I don't really care about all of the drama. To get all worked up about someones personal decision is dumb. Its just the NBA its just sports, not Life. Its entertainment and we have no say about what goes on. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

Pretty much sums it up

also the nba is a business and lost its biggest cash cow in Cali with the Lakers falling off heavy so they made sure the Cali/West market is sewn up with the Warriors and now with Boston back in the conversation for doing something and the Knicks making headlines for both right and wrong news its good old business for the Silver ran Association

they(NBA) tried to do it with the Clippers but they just keep falling short so they made sure the youngest legit title core got the big free agent fish, had the Clippers made at least a Conf Finals/Finals trip then they would have been the chosen spot for KD in my opinion but they are pretty much the orphan child of that LA market sort of like the Nets in NY so it didn't work out for them

I hope Warriors break the record they set last year and then lose in 7 games in a epic trilogy which barring any significant injuries will happen, and possibly a couple more times after this season since Lebron has 3 more years to run this decade, its a cycle just go back and look at the players like Magic/Bird/Zeke who ran the 80's then Jordan/Hakeem ran the 90's and Shaq/Duncan/Kobe ran the 99-10 era and now Lebron/Wade pretty much ran the 2011-current(mostly Lebron) with Curry/KD duo up on deck now and more so Curry who has already broke through, so based on the formula Lebron has until the 19' season before he gets dethroned out East

ldawg
10-22-2016, 07:40 PM
Are you nuts? Why should they not like KD?

nycericanguy
10-22-2016, 07:48 PM
Stop.... They just got a top 3 player in the world... If their not happy their ********. I dont give a **** how much of a bullseye is on their team... They just added Durant to a curry/green/klay team.... please.

Also they didnt just upgrade... They upgraded a player who fits the position and team perfectly.... This isnt like adding a center and forcing that style of play... They adding someone who literally fits perfectly.

I dont think its that simple.

You know i've noticed in sports sometimes the journey to a title is better than the actual title. PHI has probably the most active forum on PSD, despite being the worst team the past 3-4 years. Why? Because there is hope and fans like to play GM.

If Lebron, Durant & Curry all signed in PHI next summer and PHI won mutiple championships, sure it would be fun... but if Embiid, Saric, & Simmons eventually lead PHI to even one title, it would be MUCH more special.

ldawg
10-22-2016, 07:54 PM
Are you nuts? Why should they not like KD? No no no GSW just got more fans. Will they have more haters as well, hell yes. You cant please everyone your always going to have haters some people live for that thats their soul purpose. But You cant paint all basketball fans with one stroke of the brush. GSW tv rating will go up from both Fans and haters. But at the end of the day More people will Like them than hate them. If you concentrate on the hate then thats all you we see. Give the haters a mic thats all your going to hear. its misleading.

TrueFan420
10-22-2016, 08:10 PM
As a warriors fan I'm over the moon.

tredigs
10-22-2016, 08:29 PM
Well, KD was my favorite non-Warrior and Barnes was by far the player I loathed the most, so in that regard it was amazing. It's actually also hilarious and really fun/funny to me that the Warriors now get to be the "villain". Also, it's just going to be some of the most amazing basketball any of us will ever see, so really we're all winners here.

Mr_Jones
10-22-2016, 08:31 PM
I wouldn't care much about it. I'm a lakers fan but I'm so pumped to watch the warriors this year.

poleandreel
10-22-2016, 08:33 PM
I dont think its that simple.

You know i've noticed in sports sometimes the journey to a title is better than the actual title. PHI has probably the most active forum on PSD, despite being the worst team the past 3-4 years. Why? Because there is hope and fans like to play GM.

If Lebron, Durant & Curry all signed in PHI next summer and PHI won mutiple championships, sure it would be fun... but if Embiid, Saric, & Simmons eventually lead PHI to even one title, it would be MUCH more special.

This. Pretty shocking that most fans aren't understanding this. If ALL you care about as a fan is winning then that's pretty sad. I care about the story. I care about the journey to the wins. I care about the excitement along the way. As a fan do I get excited when my team wins against the Nets? No, I don't. It's a boring, expected win and my team is better so of course they should win. That's how it will be for the Warriors in 99% of their games. Anytime they lose it will be a failure. That's not fun to root for. When they win it will be "yea well they were supposed to".

If you want an example just look at Lebron and Cleveland. He said he would trade both Miami wins for the Cleveland one. He broke down on the court after beating GS, he didn't even cry or do much when he won in Miami. The media has tricked everyone into thinking winning is all that matters when it's not. It's how you win that matters.

In 10 years when people talk about Miami winning Championships they will say "yea but they were stacked". When people talking about the Mavs winning they will say "man that was a great story and Dirk really put that team on his back". What's more fun to root for?

The thing you aren't realizing is that it wasn't GS getting KD or GS being a bad team. They were title favorites WITHOUT KD so they still get a great shot at winning. Not it's all tainted and nobody will care when they win.

It's really simple, honestly

tredigs
10-22-2016, 08:44 PM
This. Pretty shocking that most fans aren't understanding this. If ALL you care about as a fan is winning then that's pretty sad. I care about the story. I care about the journey to the wins. I care about the excitement along the way. As a fan do I get excited when my team wins against the Nets? No, I don't. It's a boring, expected win and my team is better so of course they should win. That's how it will be for the Warriors in 99% of their games. Anytime they lose it will be a failure. That's not fun to root for. When they win it will be "yea well they were supposed to".

If you want an example just look at Lebron and Cleveland. He said he would trade both Miami wins for the Cleveland one. He broke down on the court after beating GS, he didn't even cry or do much when he won in Miami. The media has tricked everyone into thinking winning is all that matters when it's not. It's how you win that matters.

In 10 years when people talk about Miami winning Championships they will say "yea but they were stacked". When people talking about the Mavs winning they will say "man that was a great story and Dirk really put that team on his back". What's more fun to root for?

The thing you aren't realizing is that it wasn't GS getting KD or GS being a bad team. They were title favorites WITHOUT KD so they still get a great shot at winning. Not it's all tainted and nobody will care when they win.

It's really simple, honestly
Yeah, I think you're off base here entirely. For one, they already won without KD. That was the homegrown "special" ship. Now, it's a new kind of special. We get to see what may be the best professional team ever assembled play hundreds of games together, and they're not a band of randoms. Curry/Klay/Draymond are all Warriors from day 1 and they have multiple new draft picks on the roster. Now they just have the ultimate mercenary to boot. Nobody cried when the Bulls signed the best rebounder/defender in the NBA to a team that was already a championship favorite and 3X winner. On the contrary, they were the most popular basketball team in history.

Allphakenny1
10-22-2016, 08:49 PM
I do not know a Warrior fan that is not ecstatic about getting KD. If this thread is literally about Warrior fans then I'm sure most believe they should be back to back champions; if not for the Curry, Bogut and Iggy injuries and the Green suspension. One of the hardest things in sports is losing when you are the clear cut favorites, and setting the all time wins record made the Warriors just that. The KD decision was and is something that eases that championship loss a bit. The hope that losing one championship, that leads to getting KD and win multiple championships, almost seems worth it. I emphasize almost.

The Warriors are still a home grown team. Adding KD does not change that as the idea is build through the draft, and when a team becomes good, add the free agent pieces to become great. This still describes the Warriors. Also, the Warriors lost the media darlings image long before signing KD. The hate was already there.

poleandreel
10-22-2016, 08:51 PM
Yeah, I think you're off base here entirely. For one, they already won without KD. That was the homegrown "special" ship. Now, it's a new kind of special. We get to see what may be the best professional team ever assembled play hundreds of games together, and they're not a band of randoms. Curry/Klay/Draymond are all Warriors from day 1 and they have multiple new draft picks on the roster. Now they just have the ultimate mercenary to boot. Nobody cried when the Bulls signed the best rebounder/defender in the NBA to a team that was already a championship favorite and 3X winner. On the contrary, they were the most popular basketball team in history.

Rodman wasn't a former MVP and wasn't part of the team that was the Bulls main threat. The Bulls were popular because of Jordan and Jordan only.

I think deep down you know my point is true. As a real sports fan it's just not possible to be happy with this situation and I think you know that. Way more to sports than just winning and Lebron proved it

poleandreel
10-22-2016, 08:54 PM
I do not know a Warrior fan that is not ecstatic about getting KD. If this thread is literally about Warrior fans then I'm sure most believe they should be back to back champions; if not for the Curry, Bogut and Iggy injuries and the Green suspension. One of the hardest things in sports is losing when you are the clear cut favorites, and setting the all time wins record made the Warriors just that. The KD decision was and is something that eases that championship loss a bit. The hope that losing one championship, that leads to getting KD and win multiple championships, almost seems worth it. I emphasize almost.

The Warriors are still a home grown team. Adding KD does not change that as the idea is build through the draft, and when a team becomes good, add the free agent pieces to become great. This still describes the Warriors. Also, the Warriors lost the media darlings image long before signing KD. The hate was already there.

I live in SF and my boss is the biggest Warrior fan in the world. Has been for 20 years and has had season tickets right on the floor since 2005. He brought this point up to me. He hates the KD decision...which is why I thought it was interesting.

Vee-Rex
10-22-2016, 08:57 PM
I understand what the OP means, but at the end of the day, a ring is a ring.

It doesn't matter how much you dislike a player or disrespect a player or disrespect the way he makes a decision... when he puts on the jersey of the team you're rooting for, you throw all of that aside. (example... I can't stand Mario Chalmers but if he signed with the Cavs I'd be yelling out "Rioooooo")

That's just the sort of thing fandom does.

To OP: It's not an unfair question, but ultimately I don't think there's one Warrior fan that is unhappy about getting KD, and I don't blame them. I'd be the same way, despite the circumstances surrounding it.

Allphakenny1
10-22-2016, 08:59 PM
This. Pretty shocking that most fans aren't understanding this. If ALL you care about as a fan is winning then that's pretty sad. I care about the story. I care about the journey to the wins. I care about the excitement along the way. As a fan do I get excited when my team wins against the Nets? No, I don't. It's a boring, expected win and my team is better so of course they should win. That's how it will be for the Warriors in 99% of their games. Anytime they lose it will be a failure. That's not fun to root for. When they win it will be "yea well they were supposed to".

If you want an example just look at Lebron and Cleveland. He said he would trade both Miami wins for the Cleveland one. He broke down on the court after beating GS, he didn't even cry or do much when he won in Miami. The media has tricked everyone into thinking winning is all that matters when it's not. It's how you win that matters.

In 10 years when people talk about Miami winning Championships they will say "yea but they were stacked". When people talking about the Mavs winning they will say "man that was a great story and Dirk really put that team on his back". What's more fun to root for?

The thing you aren't realizing is that it wasn't GS getting KD or GS being a bad team. They were title favorites WITHOUT KD so they still get a great shot at winning. Not it's all tainted and nobody will care when they win.

It's really simple, honestly

Two problems with this post:

1) You are saying that the Bulls, Magic Lakers, Kobe Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, etc. fans were not excited about winning championships and creating dynasties. I get that there are different feelings in winning championships in different ways, but Warriors fans should be excited about the possibility of a dynasty.

2) Great teams are remembered more than the good story. Dirk is a great player, but that team will not be remembered. The great story of the latest Pistons championship is constantly called one of the worst championship team. Most fans want their team to be remembered as great and not lucky. This is what Warrior fans have the opportunity to have.

Allphakenny1
10-22-2016, 09:02 PM
I live in SF and my boss is the biggest Warrior fan in the world. Has been for 20 years and has had season tickets right on the floor since 2005. He brought this point up to me. He hates the KD decision...which is why I thought it was interesting.

There may be a very small few amount of Warrior fans that dislike the decision, but the vast majority love it. I can guarantee you that.

poleandreel
10-22-2016, 09:06 PM
Two problems with this post:

1) You are saying that the Bulls, Magic Lakers, Kobe Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, etc. fans were not excited about winning championships and creating dynasties. I get that there are different feelings in winning championships in different ways, but Warriors fans should be excited about the possibility of a dynasty.

2) Great teams are remembered more than the good story. Dirk is a great player, but that team will not be remembered. The great story of the latest Pistons championship is constantly called one of the worst championship team. Most fans want their team to be remembered as great and not lucky. This is what Warrior fans have the opportunity to have.

No, a little different. Most of those teams were not contenders before they got a certain player. Lakers weren't good until Shaq came. Lakers were trash until they got Gasol. Miami wouldn't have been a title contender with just wade/bosh. Celtics weren't good until the big 3 was formed (3 players who never had success individually).

The point I'm making is the warriors didn't need KD and could have won more championships. They won 73 games!!!! Credit to the Cavs but they were helped by Draymond suspension + Bogut/iggy injuries...and still barely won. If not for an amazing LBJ block then the Warriors win without one of their best players for a game.

It wasn't KD or mediocrity for the warriors. They were still going to be fun to watch and a championship contender without him. That's the point. Would you rather have a likable team that is fun team to watch and championships or a team that everyone hates and roots against, and championships that everyone says were meaningless bc of sellout KD.

tredigs
10-22-2016, 09:10 PM
I live in SF and my boss is the biggest Warrior fan in the world. Has been for 20 years and has had season tickets right on the floor since 2005. He brought this point up to me. He hates the KD decision...which is why I thought it was interesting.

If you live in SF then you must realize that your boss is a huge minority in his take here. For every old grumpy die-hard lifer, there are 100 others who cannot believe we replaced our most loathed player and NBA Finals ultimate choker with one of the best players to ever play the game. The anticipation to see this team in action is through the ROOF. So, to answer your question, YES, the overwhelming majority are extremely happy to have him. I know 0 Warriors fans upset with it, and I know dozens and dozens of Warrior fans.

poleandreel
10-22-2016, 09:19 PM
If you live in SF then you must realize that your boss is a huge minority in his take here. For every old grumpy die-hard lifer, there are 100 others who cannot believe we replaced our most loathed player and NBA Finals ultimate choker with one of the best players to ever play the game. The anticipation to see this team in action is through the ROOF. So, to answer your question, YES, the overwhelming majority are extremely happy to have him. I know 0 Warriors fans upset with it, and I know dozens and dozens of Warrior fans.

Thanks appreciate the insight. I guess I was wondering more if people were being truthful when they said they were excited to get KD. It's like when you go to work and people ask how you're doing...you always say "good!" no matter if it's true or not. Basically a default response. Then I thought about myself and like I mentioned initially, if Lebron came to my championship contender team I would not be happy. And yes I am a die hard fan but I get excited about more things than just winning.

If the Mets would have won the world series this year I would have died of happiness just given the myriad of injuries they overcame and how great a narrative it would have been. If they went into the offseason and signed 10 of the top baseball free agents and won the world series next year I would not be happy.

Allphakenny1
10-22-2016, 09:22 PM
No, a little different. Most of those teams were not contenders before they got a certain player. Lakers weren't good until Shaq came. Lakers were trash until they got Gasol. Miami wouldn't have been a title contender with just wade/bosh. Celtics weren't good until the big 3 was formed (3 players who never had success individually).

The point I'm making is the warriors didn't need KD and could have won more championships. They won 73 games!!!! Credit to the Cavs but they were helped by Draymond suspension + Bogut/iggy injuries...and still barely won. If not for an amazing LBJ block then the Warriors win without one of their best players for a game.

It wasn't KD or mediocrity for the warriors. They were still going to be fun to watch and a championship contender without him. That's the point. Would you rather have a likable team that is fun team to watch and championships or a team that everyone hates and roots against, and championships that everyone says were meaningless bc of sellout KD.

I think we are having a different argument here because I do not care what they were considered before they got those players. The fact is after they got those players they were championship or bust teams. Meaning, anything less than a championship is considered a failure. The Warriors are a championship or bust team with or without KD. So, if anything less than a championship for the Warriors is considered a failure, why not give them the best chance to win that championship?

tredigs
10-22-2016, 09:31 PM
Thanks appreciate the insight. I guess I was wondering more if people were being truthful when they said they were excited to get KD. It's like when you go to work and people ask how you're doing...you always say "good!" no matter if it's true or not. Basically a default response. Then I thought about myself and like I mentioned initially, if Lebron came to my championship contender team I would not be happy. And yes I am a die hard fan but I get excited about more things than just winning.

If the Mets would have won the world series this year I would have died of happiness just given the myriad of injuries they overcame and how great a narrative it would have been. If they went into the offseason and signed 10 of the top baseball free agents and won the world series next year I would not be happy.
Well if Bron came to GS I would not be happy, so in that sense we agree. The gargantuan difference there being that Bron's team won in the Finals, whereas KD's team lost.

This question is better posed to fans of KD. Of course the vast majority of Dubs fans are elated to be able to see one of the greatest teams of all time for 100+ games a year. Do you have any clue how entertaining and good they will be? I assure you, that is all that matters to most fans. As is they're still far more "homegrown" than 90% of the NBA.

HandsOnTheWheel
10-22-2016, 09:45 PM
I understand what the OP means, but at the end of the day, a ring is a ring.

It doesn't matter how much you dislike a player or disrespect a player or disrespect the way he makes a decision... when he puts on the jersey of the team you're rooting for, you throw all of that aside. (example... I can't stand Mario Chalmers but if he signed with the Cavs I'd be yelling out "Rioooooo")

That's just the sort of thing fandom does.

To OP: It's not an unfair question, but ultimately I don't think there's one Warrior fan that is unhappy about getting KD, and I don't blame them. I'd be the same way, despite the circumstances surrounding it.

That, and people claiming that the player who signed with their team was their favorite player before he signed.

IKnowHoops
10-22-2016, 09:53 PM
Yeah they are happy. The only fans that may possibly be a little unsettled by this are the ones that hate Lebron and don't want to appear hypocritical, but even they are deep down happy they have the best team in the league and a great addition in KD.

One of my ex teammates calls Lebron, Lebroad. He is a huge GS fan. He perpetrated like he was mad at them. Then he started saying Lebroad started it. Now he's full on excited for the domination to come.

Any hate for this is based purely off of hatred for Lebron and or Lebron going to the Heat. But again, even that hate is forced and not really real, its all to keep up appearances that they are not hypocrites.

tredigs
10-22-2016, 10:04 PM
That, and people claiming that the player who signed with their team was their favorite player before he signed.
Shot at me? He was not my favorite player, but my favorite non Warrior (on the court. Off court meh). I watched OKC religiously when I drafted KD in fantasy in year 2 and he took me to the win. To anybody who has been around here for some time, they know that I am pretty unabashed in my praising of him through the years.

mavwar53
10-22-2016, 10:41 PM
I'm happy, I hate being forced to trade Bogut but it feels good for a great player to finally want to come play for your team. After all the years of being rejected by average FA's it's nice to see.

Perfect fit helps as well.

HandsOnTheWheel
10-23-2016, 12:22 AM
Shot at me? He was not my favorite player, but my favorite non Warrior (on the court. Off court meh). I watched OKC religiously when I drafted KD in fantasy in year 2 and he took me to the win. To anybody who has been around here for some time, they know that I am pretty unabashed in my praising of him through the years.

Fair enough. Haven't read your post, just heard other fans.

Saddletramp
10-23-2016, 01:38 AM
I'm 95% certain that 95% of Warriors fans don't care how they got an mvp to join.

I'm also 95% sure that 95% of Warriors fans would be saying the same stuff about Durant quitting and being a p**** by taking the easy road if he joined the Cavs instead of the Warriors.

tredigs
10-23-2016, 02:35 AM
I'm 95% certain that 95% of Warriors fans don't care how they got an mvp to join.

I'm also 95% sure that 95% of Warriors fans would be saying the same stuff about Durant quitting and being a p**** by taking the easy road if he joined the Cavs instead of the Warriors.

Truth. And frankly I don't "respect" KDs desision as is. That said, he's a grown man and made a smart business decision that benefited my organization in a massive way. Yes sir.

jason
10-23-2016, 03:18 AM
I'm 95% certain that 95% of Warriors fans don't care how they got an mvp to join.

I'm also 95% sure that 95% of Warriors fans would be saying the same stuff about Durant quitting and being a p**** by taking the easy road if he joined the Cavs instead of the Warriors.

True I would be mad af but I'm certain 95% of Cavs fans would be ecstatic if they got KD too

Saddletramp
10-23-2016, 03:50 AM
I'd still call him a quitter with no heart if he were to join the Cavs, too. The way I see it, there was two teams that he just couldn't go to and keep his competitive spirit intact. Three if you count the Spurs (which I potentially would). But if he were to join Boston, Wash, LAC, or a few others that he realistically considered, then I'd give him a pass and chalk it up to just moving on from OKC/RWB.

Being the guy that puts a team over the top is one thing, joining......ahhhh, you know what I'm gong to say.

Scoots
10-23-2016, 10:12 AM
I like watching KD play, but I wonder if the team is in some ways more beatable than before.

I'm still looking forward to watching the games ... but my happiness is never tied up in sports results.

mrblisterdundee
10-23-2016, 12:15 PM
I think Golden State's owners are committed to going full-heel, as long as it pays. First comes adding Durant, creating the NBA's first super-duper team and killing most likeability outside the Bay. Then comes moving to a new stadium in San Francisco where only wealthy yuppies can afford to attend games, alienating most working-class fans in the Bay Area.

IKnowHoops
10-23-2016, 02:21 PM
True I would be mad af but I'm certain 95% of Cavs fans would be ecstatic if they got KD too

True, but 95% of Cavs fans are not calling him a p---- for going to GSW.

tredigs
10-23-2016, 09:29 PM
I like watching KD play, but I wonder if the team is in some ways more beatable than before.

I'm still looking forward to watching the games ... but my happiness is never tied up in sports results.

You have to realize that Barnes got max money though. Meaning that while losing Bogut for Zaza is not ideal, we couldn't keep him anyway (if they wanted to keep Barnes). Regardless, I think they're tougher. Having 3 of the best shooters and 2 of the best scorers in their prime on one side of the court is a cheat code, especially with a strong D and coaching capable of maximizing their impact.

Hopper15
10-24-2016, 03:06 AM
Of course swapping a mediocre player in Barnes for a perennial MVP player in KD is amazing in a vacuum, but the Warriors were different. They had a very likable team and had become the darlings of the NBA. Curry had become the new face of the NBA. They basically had a fully homegrown team in Curry, Klay, Barnes, Draymond, etc. They had a rookie coach who instilled an offense that took the league by storm. They even won the championship after years of being an awful team, after concerns about Curry's long term health, after relegating former all star David Lee to the bench, etc.

Then they went out and broke the all time wins record a year later. Yea there were "haters" who wanted to beat them every night but everyone knew that they were a team that endured years of losing and built from within and people respected them. Now, that is totally not the case.

Now, the only people who like the Warriors are their own fans. They destroyed their media love, they destroyed Curry's golden child image, they destroyed a very likable team. In my opinion only part of being a fan is enjoying the success your team has. The other part of fandom is getting excited for a good upcoming matchup, or not knowing if they're going to win, or wondering if they will win the series, and then seeing what people in the media or even other fans are saying about your team and players.

Seeing constant negative headlines has to get annoying for Warriors fans. Hearing every announcer and former NBA player denouncing the quality of their future championships because KD sold out has to be annoying. All i know is, as a huge Lebron and NBA fan, i would not have wanted Lebron to come to my team if they were already a championship contender.

I can almost guarantee that when the Cavs play the Warriors in the finals in June, 99% of people will be rooting for LBJ and the Cavs. To me, having your team being the villian/hated is not fun at all...you can pretend that the "it's us against the world and we want to prove people wrong" is fun to root for but it's not and Miami admitted that after they won. It's a facade that you put up because you have no other option.

I'd be pissed if I was a warriors fan and KD came and ruined everything about them. Thoughts?

No you wouldn't because any sane Warrior fan would take KD over what they lost 100 times out of 100.

tredigs
10-24-2016, 03:42 AM
I think Golden State's owners are committed to going full-heel, as long as it pays. First comes adding Durant, creating the NBA's first super-duper team and killing most likeability outside the Bay. Then comes moving to a new stadium in San Francisco where only wealthy yuppies can afford to attend games, alienating most working-class fans in the Bay Area.
Yes, they are creating the most ideal situation imaginable in order to go "full heel". You have them pegged.

Lol Are you kids serious or... is this just one big troll?

hugepatsfan
10-24-2016, 07:51 AM
No way. I would imagine that if/when GS starts winning every regular season game by 20 points and resting starters in the 4th quarters it won't be so interesting on a game to game basis though. It's basically be a "wake me up when the WCF's start" type of situation. And honestly, they shouldn't get pushed to more tan 5 or 6 games by anyone even deep in the playoffs.

Scoots
10-24-2016, 09:07 AM
You have to realize that Barnes got max money though. Meaning that while losing Bogut for Zaza is not ideal, we couldn't keep him anyway (if they wanted to keep Barnes). Regardless, I think they're tougher. Having 3 of the best shooters and 2 of the best scorers in their prime on one side of the court is a cheat code, especially with a strong D and coaching capable of maximizing their impact.

I HOPE they were never going to match that money for Barnes.

It's going to take a while to figure out how the pieces fit that's for sure.

I like the lineup we saw with Clark, McCaw, Iguodala, KD, and Looney. Iguodala and KD are enough to make that lineup be okay .... anything the youngsters do is a bonus and they are looking pretty good so far.

tredigs
10-24-2016, 08:37 PM
I HOPE they were never going to match that money for Barnes.

It's going to take a while to figure out how the pieces fit that's for sure.

I like the lineup we saw with Clark, McCaw, Iguodala, KD, and Looney. Iguodala and KD are enough to make that lineup be okay .... anything the youngsters do is a bonus and they are looking pretty good so far.
Looney's still a wild-card for me but I'm convinced that under the defensive brilliance of Iguodala (and by all accounts I've heard a willing and engaging player-coach), McCaw will be his successor and ready to compete at an extremely high level for the Warriors next season. He has been such a bright spot for them over the summer. Can not believe they scored this kid in the 2nd round. It's looking like a potential dare I say Draymond-esque 2nd round steal all over again (it'll take a year or two, but he'll get up there IMO).

And I do think they would have begrudgingly paid Barnes had KD not signed. He's a more reliable asset than Bogut for health reasons (Barnes' top attribute by a mile is his health), and there was really no other options still available at SF who they could bring in. Batum, Parsons, etc had already signed. It may take a few months (may not), but I think they are indeed appreciably stronger this season than last.

Saddletramp
10-24-2016, 10:05 PM
Damn it, had the fourth pick in our fantasy league and with Curry, RWB and Harden all gone guess who I get?......... lol, serves me right, I guess.

FlashBolt
10-24-2016, 11:04 PM
Damn it, had the fourth pick in our fantasy league and with Curry, RWB and Harden all gone guess who I get?......... lol, serves me right, I guess.

I had fourth pick as well except KD was taken instead of Curry. I took LeBron. I think he'll go for MVP.

Saddletramp
10-24-2016, 11:37 PM
I had fourth pick as well except KD was taken instead of Curry. I took LeBron. I think he'll go for MVP.

I think he went eighth. I woulda grabbed him at five.

tredigs
10-24-2016, 11:48 PM
Damn it, had the fourth pick in our fantasy league and with Curry, RWB and Harden all gone guess who I get?......... lol, serves me right, I guess.
Lame humble-brag but whatever - I used to dominate my friends fantasy league every season (we actually outright stopped playing last season on account of me winning the previous 5 years and them being sick of it - they're not bball die-hards for the most part), so I always like the more "fun" upside pick with the 1st round. This year I think KAT's the choice there; I could actually see him finish as THE top fantasy player in a standard 9-cat league with Durant/Curry being on the same team (their numbers will be there, but they will probably play ~6 less minutes a game than KAT due to blowouts). Westbrook will hurt you on TO's and for a guard sucks at 3's despite his chucking (and overall efficiency).

Edit: That said, there's no scenario where I would not take Harden #1 in fantasy if I had the 1st pick in a serious league.

tredigs
10-24-2016, 11:50 PM
I had fourth pick as well except KD was taken instead of Curry. I took LeBron. I think he'll go for MVP.

Lebron over Curry in fantasy if it's a standard 9-cat league is a horrible decision. Just being objectively honest.

FlashBolt
10-24-2016, 11:51 PM
I think he went eighth. I woulda grabbed him at five.

No kidding, 8th? Top five for me was always KD, Harden, WB, LeBron, and KAT. I'm guessing CP3/Cousins/AD went before him. Idk. I was betting on LeBron actually trying to get MVP this time since he's got the highest probability assuming he plays enough games. On the other hand, they might rest him. We'll see. My bud at 5th/6th both wanted LeBron so I'll just trade him away if it becomes an issue.

Hawkeye15
10-25-2016, 09:54 AM
The thing is, a team like GS, was going to be hated by many inevitably. That is what happens with great teams, they get haters.

For me, the Warriors were getting far too cute halfway through last year, celebrating every made 3, flipping passes around the back, playground dribbling, etc. It was coming anyways. I won't hold it against the Warriors for signing Durant, how could you? But I do hold it against Durant to some extent, for running from a contender, to the team that beat his, to ride the coat tails of the most stacked team in history that didn't even need him to win. So yes, I hope nothing but failure for the Warriors, even though I individually like many of their players.

The "hate" was coming anyways.

SteBO
10-25-2016, 10:56 AM
The thing is, a team like GS, was going to be hated by many inevitably. That is what happens with great teams, they get haters.

For me, the Warriors were getting far too cute halfway through last year, celebrating every made 3, flipping passes around the back, playground dribbling, etc. It was coming anyways. I won't hold it against the Warriors for signing Durant, how could you? But I do hold it against Durant to some extent, for running from a contender, to the team that beat his, to ride the coat tails of the most stacked team in history that didn't even need him to win. So yes, I hope nothing but failure for the Warriors, even though I individually like many of their players.

The "hate" was coming anyways.
Makes LBJ seem "angelic", and he got it 10x worse by the media. I don't necessarily wish any failure on GSW, because as a Heat fan who enjoyed those 4 magical years with LBJ, I can sympathize with the Warriors fanbase regarding what they're gonna endure if their team slacks. I, too, like many of their players and the organization but Draymond Green and KD are probably gonna make those feelings go away by years' end, the former because he can't seem tone it the **** down, and the latter because I feel he's been too much of a phony for my liking. Durant is someone I'm not cutting any slack for.

tredigs
10-25-2016, 10:59 AM
The thing is, a team like GS, was going to be hated by many inevitably. That is what happens with great teams, they get haters.

For me, the Warriors were getting far too cute halfway through last year, celebrating every made 3, flipping passes around the back, playground dribbling, etc. It was coming anyways. I won't hold it against the Warriors for signing Durant, how could you? But I do hold it against Durant to some extent, for running from a contender, to the team that beat his, to ride the coat tails of the most stacked team in history that didn't even need him to win. So yes, I hope nothing but failure for the Warriors, even though I individually like many of their players.

The "hate" was coming anyways.

Pretty much how I feel if I was being 100% objective about them.

Hawkeye15
10-25-2016, 11:11 AM
Makes LBJ seem "angelic", and he got it 10x worse by the media. I don't necessarily wish any failure on GSW, because as a Heat fan who enjoyed those 4 magical years with LBJ, I can sympathize with the Warriors fanbase regarding what they're gonna endure if their team slacks. I, too, like many of their players and the organization but Draymond Green and KD are probably gonna make those feelings go away by years' end, the former because he can't seem tone it the **** down, and the latter because I feel he's been too much of a phony for my liking. Durant is someone I'm not cutting any slack for.

well, the difference for me, is the Warrior fan base, deserves success. I see them like I do myself, as a Wolves fan. When our time comes, other teams fans will probably say, "dude, you suffered through so many shittay times haha, own it while it lasts". Where as Laker fans, for an example, have been so spoiled, forever, so I hate it when they are good. Eff em

But yeah, things are funny at times. LeBron was just destroyed (and some of it rightly so with the Decision, and the parade, etc), for doing something far less non-competitive than Durant just did. And again, I point to the fact that because of the cap just skyrocketing, it offered an opportunity that would never have been available in any other year, but still, can you think of a so called "superstar" ever wimping out as bad? Meh

I just don't want them to win. Because, they are not my team, and they are too good haha

Vee-Rex
10-25-2016, 11:20 AM
The thing is, a team like GS, was going to be hated by many inevitably. That is what happens with great teams, they get haters.

For me, the Warriors were getting far too cute halfway through last year, celebrating every made 3, flipping passes around the back, playground dribbling, etc. It was coming anyways. I won't hold it against the Warriors for signing Durant, how could you? But I do hold it against Durant to some extent, for running from a contender, to the team that beat his, to ride the coat tails of the most stacked team in history that didn't even need him to win. So yes, I hope nothing but failure for the Warriors, even though I individually like many of their players.

The "hate" was coming anyways.

Fair take on it.

I don't blame the Warriors at all for signing Durant either. I did lose a little respect for Durant for his decision, but no biggie.

More than anything, I just want the Warriors to be human. It's very possible that when they're perfectly tuned they'll obliterate the entire league, Cavs included. That would be most annoying to me. But even when they're super good, if they can still be human (and we see some good playoff games), then I won't be mad at the situation.

JAZZNC
10-25-2016, 11:48 AM
I don't know how any fan of a team wouldn't be happy signing a top flight player??? That's why you are a fan, you want your team to be the best they can possibly be.

I don't want them do win it all just to see KDs decision backfire on him. Which kinda sucks because I really like the Warriors as a team and Curry especially since he had soooo many doubters and even haters at the start. It's kinda funny to me how many Jazz fans just plain hate the Warriors for "tanking" to "steal" Harrison Barnes from us haha!

Hawkeye15
10-25-2016, 12:05 PM
Fair take on it.

I don't blame the Warriors at all for signing Durant either. I did lose a little respect for Durant for his decision, but no biggie.

More than anything, I just want the Warriors to be human. It's very possible that when they're perfectly tuned they'll obliterate the entire league, Cavs included. That would be most annoying to me. But even when they're super good, if they can still be human (and we see some good playoff games), then I won't be mad at the situation.

absolutely. Who wants to watch everyone play for 2nd for the next 3 years?

Scoots
10-25-2016, 01:18 PM
The thing is, a team like GS, was going to be hated by many inevitably. That is what happens with great teams, they get haters.

For me, the Warriors were getting far too cute halfway through last year, celebrating every made 3, flipping passes around the back, playground dribbling, etc. It was coming anyways. I won't hold it against the Warriors for signing Durant, how could you? But I do hold it against Durant to some extent, for running from a contender, to the team that beat his, to ride the coat tails of the most stacked team in history that didn't even need him to win. So yes, I hope nothing but failure for the Warriors, even though I individually like many of their players.

The "hate" was coming anyways.

Actually, what's annoying about the Warriors is that they've been doing the behind the back passes and showboating for a few years now and they've always celebrated a lot. It's just now a lot more games are national so it's annoying more people. Green has always celebrated and complained way too much.

I wish they would play and act a bit more like the Spurs. I like it when players look like they are having fun ... it's a game, they should have fun, but it's a thin line to walk between having fun and showing up the opponent.

Hawkeye15
10-25-2016, 01:36 PM
Actually, what's annoying about the Warriors is that they've been doing the behind the back passes and showboating for a few years now and they've always celebrated a lot. It's just now a lot more games are national so it's annoying more people. Green has always celebrated and complained way too much.

I wish they would play and act a bit more like the Spurs. I like it when players look like they are having fun ... it's a game, they should have fun, but it's a thin line to walk between having fun and showing up the opponent.

partly true, I think everyone has seen the Warriors play many times now. I am a Big Ten fan, so I knew of Green, and his temper before he even got to the NBA.

I mean, it's a thin line. The Spurs were always considered boring by the masses. I like it to be fun, I just don't like Steph doing a 30 part double hand dance, shot into the sky, holster his fingers, shake his hips, spin around in place, death stare the other bench, kiss to the sky, after he makes a 3 in the 2nd quarter, GS up by 20...

tredigs
10-25-2016, 01:59 PM
Haha. Yeah but to be fair, the only time you see Steph show up the bench is if they're trying to get into his head during the game and screaming during his shots, etc. The best is when he shoots a three and immediately turns to stare at the bench or just leaves and starts running back on defense when the ball is 15 feet from the hoop. Highly noteworthy that I have never seen the ball miss when he has done that either. It's a legend-level troll imo. Love it. Draymond's are annoying but that's Draymond being himself.

JAZZNC
10-25-2016, 02:54 PM
The best is when he shoots a three and immediately turns to stare at the bench or just leaves and starts running back on defense when the ball is 15 feet from the hoop. Highly noteworthy that I have never seen the ball miss when he has done that either. It's a legend-level troll imo. Love it.
That is so true and I love it as well!! When he lets it go near the opposing bench and turns around right after it leaves his fingertips is "**** talking" at it's finest!!

IKnowHoops
10-25-2016, 04:34 PM
Yeah, I'm just not into the "be competitive talk". I have zero problem with Dubs or KD. I think the easier decision would of been to stay in OKC. He made the smart/right decision by going to GSW. GSW did made the correct business decision by going hard after a top 3 player in the NBA. There is no pity, or taking it easy on other teams. Your sole mission is to win. As an owner, you are to put the best team on the court plain and simple. You are to make money, by giving your fans the best product possible that will make them show up every night. I applaud GSW and Durant for making that happen, and for creating the best team on paper that I have ever seen. As a fan of the entire NBA, this acquisition makes the league so much more interesting. This pushes the envelope, and now more and more teams are going to push the envelope in the future and the NBA will be the most exciting sport year in and year out with the way top notch talent moves around.

I understand why people get mad at this notion...but you have to know that it is hate. The name of the game is to win. And its not like GS is some great destination that players want to go to like LA. They built there team from the ground up, and got a free agent to go there based on there Front Office IQ. Nothing wrong with what they did. Everything is right with how they got to be what they are today.

Chronz
10-25-2016, 09:04 PM
If I were a fan it would be bitter sweet but any self respecting NBA fan sees what a divide/schism this has created. I have respect for greats who control their own destiny but also choose a "harder road", Im with many of the older generation when I say such a union would have been blasphemous in their day. What does a ring matter if your overwhelmingly more talented than the comp? Had KD been competitive, the NBA would have had more contenders than this. I know its trendy to say its a 2 team race but I wouldn't be surprised if the Dubs crush the Cavs in 5 or something these Finals and thats sad. I've never seen a 1 team race quite like this, not since MJ's Bulls and even then I had alil more doubt. Hope Im wrong tho

Chronz
10-25-2016, 09:13 PM
As a fan of the entire NBA, this acquisition makes the league so much more interesting. This pushes the envelope, and now more and more teams are going to push the envelope in the future and the NBA will be the most exciting sport year in and year out with the way top notch talent moves around.
LOL, wat? Push it how? There aren't that many stars to spread around, that one of the biggest went to an already historical team makes the nba less interesting to me and I say that as a fan of the "entire NBA".


I understand why people get mad at this notion...but you have to know that it is hate.
No its LOVE, because they disagree with your stance doesn't make it hate.


The name of the game is to win.
Speak for yourself, how you win/lose and who you face is important. Some players want to win but they want more glory than to piggy back on such a stacked squad. They may not win but some of us value that competitive spirit. Otherwise, its basically saying any good player should just sign with GS or Cleveland.


And its not like GS is some great destination that players want to go to like LA.
Its not like its Cleveland either, and according to KD silicon valley's presence was a pretty big deal for him so what we define as a great destination is completely subjective and irrelevant. Im glad he likes the locale, its not like he would've gone to GS had they been the dumpster fire they've been in the past.


They built there team from the ground up, and got a free agent to go there based on there Front Office IQ. Nothing wrong with what they did. Everything is right with how they got to be what they are today.

Pretty sure NOBODY has faulted GS, the entire purpose is to stack the deck in your teams favor. Some of us point the finger at just how easy KD has admitted to wanting it and take an issue with his lack of competitive spirit. We wanted him to be a GOAT candidate and this move has firmly erased that goal IMO. Nobody will care how many rings he racks up if its as easy as it looks on paper. We'll see if just how much he has to carry the Dubs but its hard to envision such a GOAT load when so much went wrong for them last year and they barely lost. If not for the team missing WIDE OPEN looks at such a deplorable rate, they repeat. Cleveland didn't man handle them to the point where you say, oh well KD is the kind of talent they need to be put over the top. The way I see it, him going to GS is worse than joining Cleveland. Tho both would be bad.

Lakers + Giants
10-26-2016, 12:11 AM
If i had 2 of the top 3 players in the nba on my team i wouldn't care what anyone says about my team. I'd be ecstatic.

lol, please
10-26-2016, 01:19 AM
Of course swapping a mediocre player in Barnes for a perennial MVP player in KD is amazing in a vacuum, but the Warriors were different. They had a very likable team and had become the darlings of the NBA. Curry had become the new face of the NBA. They basically had a fully homegrown team in Curry, Klay, Barnes, Draymond, etc. They had a rookie coach who instilled an offense that took the league by storm. They even won the championship after years of being an awful team, after concerns about Curry's long term health, after relegating former all star David Lee to the bench, etc.

Then they went out and broke the all time wins record a year later. Yea there were "haters" who wanted to beat them every night but everyone knew that they were a team that endured years of losing and built from within and people respected them. Now, that is totally not the case.

Now, the only people who like the Warriors are their own fans. They destroyed their media love, they destroyed Curry's golden child image, they destroyed a very likable team. In my opinion only part of being a fan is enjoying the success your team has. The other part of fandom is getting excited for a good upcoming matchup, or not knowing if they're going to win, or wondering if they will win the series, and then seeing what people in the media or even other fans are saying about your team and players.

Seeing constant negative headlines has to get annoying for Warriors fans. Hearing every announcer and former NBA player denouncing the quality of their future championships because KD sold out has to be annoying. All i know is, as a huge Lebron and NBA fan, i would not have wanted Lebron to come to my team if they were already a championship contender.

I can almost guarantee that when the Cavs play the Warriors in the finals in June, 99% of people will be rooting for LBJ and the Cavs. To me, having your team being the villian/hated is not fun at all...you can pretend that the "it's us against the world and we want to prove people wrong" is fun to root for but it's not and Miami admitted that after they won. It's a facade that you put up because you have no other option.

I'd be pissed if I was a warriors fan and KD came and ruined everything about them. Thoughts?

I am definitely happy. This will be a historic season. Durant was my favorite non warrior before the trade, and I woulda looked foolish for saying we would get him over a season ago, plus we are an infinitely better team now.

Saddletramp
10-26-2016, 03:28 AM
The name of the game is to win.

If that were true, guys would take pay cuts. How much are some of these guys making in endorsements? I bet Durant could've signed for $15M and let them keep Bogut and not be too hurt when it's all said and done. The name of the game is winning as much as you can and getting paid as much as you can and leaving the highest possible legacy that you can. Players rarely can do all three.


And its not like GS is some great destination that players want to go to like LA.

Have you ever been to the Bay Area? You're making it sound like it's Milwaukee or Indianapolis or something.


They built there team from the ground up, and got a free agent to go there based on there Front Office IQ. Nothing wrong with what they did. Everything is right with how they got to be what they are today.

No one is denying any of that.



-------

So, apparently KD told David Aldridge that he left OKC to get out of his "comfort zone" (funny how going to Detroit or Charlotte or Memphis wasn't helping him get out of his "comfort zone"). He "didn't like being stagnant" (after signing an extension in OKC).


The more garbage this buffoon spouts, the more I loathe him.

R. Johnson#3
10-26-2016, 08:18 AM
If any Warrior fans are upset about getting KD then they have a mental disorder.

hugepatsfan
10-26-2016, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I'm just not into the "be competitive talk". I have zero problem with Dubs or KD. I think the easier decision would of been to stay in OKC. He made the smart/right decision by going to GSW. GSW did made the correct business decision by going hard after a top 3 player in the NBA. There is no pity, or taking it easy on other teams. Your sole mission is to win. As an owner, you are to put the best team on the court plain and simple. You are to make money, by giving your fans the best product possible that will make them show up every night. I applaud GSW and Durant for making that happen, and for creating the best team on paper that I have ever seen. As a fan of the entire NBA, this acquisition makes the league so much more interesting. This pushes the envelope, and now more and more teams are going to push the envelope in the future and the NBA will be the most exciting sport year in and year out with the way top notch talent moves around.

I understand why people get mad at this notion...but you have to know that it is hate. The name of the game is to win. And its not like GS is some great destination that players want to go to like LA. They built there team from the ground up, and got a free agent to go there based on there Front Office IQ. Nothing wrong with what they did. Everything is right with how they got to be what they are today.

I don't think anyone has criticized GS at all. So that part is moot.

I get what you're saying about KD. Name of the game is to win. But at the same time, winning the way he will have done so in GS doesn't really mean anything other than him getting to say he won. It won't add to his greatness at all. And it's well within his right to not care about that. If he wants to just play and not care about "narratives" then he has all the power to do so. But if/when he wins with GS no one is gonna think any of higher of KD for it. That's not hate, it's just real. He joined a team that already won and then barely missed doing it again. So if/when he wins with them it won't be a testament to his greatness. It'll just be checking a box for him of winning a ring. That's it.

In regards to the bold, you're not accounting for the fact that this was such a unique situation. The cap spike and GS's once-in-a-generation drafting made it possible. If what you were saying was true about other teams being able to duplicate to an extent then it would be interesting. But because there really isn't an avenue for anyone to close the talent gap it's not going to make the league more interesting unless something unforeseen happens.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2016, 12:02 PM
I don't think anyone has criticized GS at all. So that part is moot.

I get what you're saying about KD. Name of the game is to win. But at the same time, winning the way he will have done so in GS doesn't really mean anything other than him getting to say he won. It won't add to his greatness at all. And it's well within his right to not care about that. If he wants to just play and not care about "narratives" then he has all the power to do so. But if/when he wins with GS no one is gonna think any of higher of KD for it. That's not hate, it's just real. He joined a team that already won and then barely missed doing it again. So if/when he wins with them it won't be a testament to his greatness. It'll just be checking a box for him of winning a ring. That's it.

In regards to the bold, you're not accounting for the fact that this was such a unique situation. The cap spike and GS's once-in-a-generation drafting made it possible. If what you were saying was true about other teams being able to duplicate to an extent then it would be interesting. But because there really isn't an avenue for anyone to close the talent gap it's not going to make the league more interesting unless something unforeseen happens.

exactly. Well put. Nobody should be crapping on GS for drafting perfectly, and then being lucky enough to have a roster more talented than everyone else, at the exact same time a new TV deal allowed the cap to explode, essentially allowing a one time loophole for teams that were maxed out to all of a sudden have max room.

It's on Durant. Nothing he does in the win column will be looked at as special. GS doesn't even need him. Any chip he wins with the current GS roster means nothing to his all time ranking. Will it mean something to him personally? I am sure. But it means nothing to his legacy.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-26-2016, 12:50 PM
Warriors have a elite starting line up but man the bench is thin. Also with Curry new super max deal soon. It will be tough to fill a bench. Yeah you will get ring chasers but still.

IKnowHoops
10-26-2016, 12:59 PM
[QUOTE]LOL, wat? Push it how? There aren't that many stars to spread around, that one of the biggest went to an already historical team makes the nba less interesting to me and I say that as a fan of the "entire NBA".

Having stars isn't the only way to win, especially when none of your stars are good at rebounding or defending the rim, as the Spurs showed last night.



No its LOVE, because they disagree with your stance doesn't make it hate.

"There's a thin line, between love and hate" Love for you're team can equal hate for all others.



Speak for yourself, how you win/lose and who you face is important. Some players want to win but they want more glory than to piggy back on such a stacked squad. They may not win but some of us value that competitive spirit. Otherwise, its basically saying any good player should just sign with GS or Cleveland.

LOL Stop it. The Era you referred to had 7+ year contracts. They didn't have the ability to control where they were. Now they do. Don't pretend to know what players thought when they had no other choice anyway.



Its not like its Cleveland either, and according to KD silicon valley's presence was a pretty big deal for him so what we define as a great destination is completely subjective and irrelevant. Im glad he likes the locale, its not like he would've gone to GS had they been the dumpster fire they've been in the past.

Silicone Valley would of meant nada without Klay and Steph already there is the point. And that was done through great drafting by a great front office. And yes Cleveland acquires players because of who is there. LA can get players for simply being LA.



Pretty sure NOBODY has faulted GS, the entire purpose is to stack the deck in your teams favor.

Then we agree



Some of us point the finger at just how easy KD has admitted to wanting it and take an issue with his lack of competitive spirit.

Meh. Whatever. Not into this type of sports mentality


We wanted him to be a GOAT candidate and this move has firmly erased that goal IMO.

Games have to be played. I don't see how it can already be erased. He could win and still dominate Lebron or whoever else in such a fashion that he deserves GOAT candidacy.


Nobody will care how many rings he racks up if its as easy as it looks on paper. We'll see if just how much he has to carry the Dubs but its hard to envision such a GOAT load when so much went wrong for them last year and they barely lost. If not for the team missing WIDE OPEN looks at such a deplorable rate, they repeat.

Thats why we wait till after the games to judge. Prejudging is a fail. Hebron carried a "loaded" team in Miami.


Cleveland didn't man handle them to the point where you say, oh well KD is the kind of talent they need to be put over the top. The way I see it, him going to GS is worse than joining Cleveland. Tho both would be bad.

LOLOLOL...How?

hugepatsfan
10-26-2016, 01:35 PM
Warriors have a elite starting line up but man the bench is thin. Also with Curry new super max deal soon. It will be tough to fill a bench. Yeah you will get ring chasers but still.

I wouldn't say it's thin. I'd actually argue that a bench consisting of Livingston/Iggy/West is pretty deep. Once the playoffs start you're only going to go 8 or 9 guys deep anyway really. None of their big 4 will have much issue if they're playing 38+ minutes a night come playoff time. Their "issue" (if they have one) isn't depth. It's the lack of a particular skill set (rim protecting big).

Hawkeye15
10-26-2016, 01:47 PM
I wouldn't say it's thin. I'd actually argue that a bench consisting of Livingston/Iggy/West is pretty deep. Once the playoffs start you're only going to go 8 or 9 guys deep anyway really. None of their big 4 will have much issue if they're playing 38+ minutes a night come playoff time. Their "issue" (if they have one) isn't depth. It's the lack of a particular skill set (rim protecting big).

Do you think one of Klay/Durant, would be ok coming off the bench? Pops did it with Manu. Too much firepower/overlapping if he started.

hugepatsfan
10-26-2016, 01:55 PM
Do you think one of Klay/Durant, would be ok coming off the bench? Pops did it with Manu. Too much firepower/overlapping if he started.

I think that would be pushing it with their unselfishness. Wouldn't be worth trying.

Manu never played 31.1 minutes/game in a season. Pop also liked to manage minutes. GS has 4 elite players who can play 36 minutes a game and routinely do so. 4 elite players is one more than Pop ever had in SA. GS don't need to move a guy to the bench to balance their scoring. They just have to line up the rotations to not take all 4 out at once. Heck, they could probably even line it up where they have 2 in at all times. And Livingston/Iggy are both probably 6th men on the majority of NBA teams as is.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2016, 02:01 PM
I think that would be pushing it with their unselfishness. Wouldn't be worth trying.

Manu never played 31.1 minutes/game in a season. Pop also liked to manage minutes. GS has 4 elite players who can play 36 minutes a game and routinely do so. 4 elite players is one more than Pop ever had in SA. GS don't need to move a guy to the bench to balance their scoring. They just have to line up the rotations to not take all 4 out at once. Heck, they could probably even line it up where they have 2 in at all times. And Livingston/Iggy are both probably 6th men on the majority of NBA teams as is.

they did that last night. Look, it will take time for them to gel. Adding Durant is not easy. Even though it feels like it should be.

Chronz
10-26-2016, 02:32 PM
Having stars isn't the only way to win, especially when none of your stars are good at rebounding or defending the rim, as the Spurs showed last night.
Its been the only way I've seen but we might have varying definition of the word, like to me, the Spurs have overachieved despite a dearth of top level stars to a degree I dont think we've ever seen and they lost in R.2 to a team with talent. Lost in R.1 last year but yes, they could win it all this year now that they added more talent (which is what GS did to a greater degree IMO)



"There's a thin line, between love and hate" Love for you're team can equal hate for all others.

Im talking about the same thing you were talking about, which is the league.



LOL Stop it. The Era you referred to had 7+ year contracts. They didn't have the ability to control where they were. Now they do. Don't pretend to know what players thought when they had no other choice anyway.

LOL why would I stop it if Im not pretending? I do know what certain players thought because they let it be known at the time. What do you mean they didn't have a choice, just how long do you think Im talking about? 7+ contracts existed with opt outs after 4 so really dont see what you're trying to get at here.



Silicone Valley would of meant nada without Klay and Steph already there is the point.
Its a point I echoed and again, its still a big market with plenty to offer. Not seeing where you're going with this either.


And that was done through great drafting by a great front office. And yes Cleveland acquires players because of who is there. LA can get players for simply being LA.

I disagree, its a culmination of a variety of factors, of which matter differently depending on the player. Dont see where you're going here either.




Then we agree
We never disagreed on that front.



Meh. Whatever. Not into this type of sports mentality
Cool beans. Plenty do, including former basketball players but surely you can understand why they are being portrayed as the villain now and its entirely because we care about that sanctity of competition.



Games have to be played. I don't see how it can already be erased. He could win and still dominate Lebron or whoever else in such a fashion that he deserves GOAT candidacy.
Of course he can, if we wait for something to happen its not much of a prediction/proclamation is it? Its hard to envision a role with THAT MUCH TALENT around him where he has to do so much.



Thats why we wait till after the games to judge. Prejudging is a fail. Hebron carried a "loaded" team in Miami.
Speak for yourself, prejudging (projecting/predicting is a better word here) is part of the game, dont you ever gamble or is it such a fail for you that you just never try? If you do gamble then stop being a hypocrite.




LOLOLOL...How?
Because so much went wrong for GS and Cleveland BARELY won. Its hardly a laughable statement when many do believe GS SHOULD have won and its at worse a similar proposition. So lol indeed, what a *****.

IKnowHoops
10-26-2016, 04:10 PM
[QUOTE]Its been the only way I've seen but we might have varying definition of the word, like to me, the Spurs have overachieved despite a dearth of top level stars to a degree I dont think we've ever seen and they lost in R.2 to a team with talent. Lost in R.1 last year but yes, they could win it all this year now that they added more talent (which is what GS did to a greater degree IMO)

Yeah I think we have a varying definition of the word.




Im talking about the same thing you were talking about, which is the league.

OK, but even though I love a team, I don't automatically hate another because they are stacked or better. I have respect for there talent and if they win they get the credit for doing so. No hate at all. I do hate a few players for what they have done on the court, but thats where the hate stops for me.




LOL why would I stop it if Im not pretending? I do know what certain players thought because they let it be known at the time. What do you mean they didn't have a choice, just how long do you think Im talking about? 7+ contracts existed with opt outs after 4 so really dont see what you're trying to get at here.


The problem is, Ive never heard a player say Magic, or Birds rings don't mean much due to the fact they were on stacked teams. If what you say was true I would hear this.

I have heard Charles and Malone aren't winners because they have never had a ring. Hebron got killed for not winning a ring even though it was clear he played with talent nobody could win with.

Ring count, which is a team achievement is held in high regard when judging individuals

The only time someone b----- about competition is when a young guy makes a super team, but I don't ever hear the same thing about super teams that were gifted that were more superior to super teams that were made.

All this brings me to the conclusion that it is hypocritical b------g by old timers who don't have rings or do have them but didn't go that route, kind of wish they did, and see it as a way to tear down the new breed as to keep themselves relevant or higher in the all-time standings. Oh you want to go by what players say? OK great, Barkley just said Klay was better than Durant! These are the the guys talking down on Durant and pushing the competitive advantage agenda. They are Haters, and not because they disagree with me, but as someone who doesn't hate on people, I can spot a hater, and a hater attitude. These are the guys that say this kind of stuff. Unless the same player is willing to take away from Bird and Magic's rings, he is a hypocrite and what he says is not valid. If he is willing to take away from there rings as well and you have heard them say that, then I'll credit there opinion because then they would be keeping it 100 on the competition argument.



Its a point I echoed and again, its still a big market with plenty to offer. Not seeing where you're going with this either.

OK, not important.



I disagree, its a culmination of a variety of factors, of which matter differently depending on the player. Dont see where you're going here either.

OK not important





We never disagreed on that front.

This point then 100% supports everything GSW and Durant have done, so there should be no argument about anything after this.




Cool beans. Plenty do, including former basketball players but surely you can understand why they are being portrayed as the villain now and its entirely because we care about that sanctity of competition.

Yeah the Barkley's of the world.

Again, Unless these same guys are taking away from Bird and Magic who were gifted super teams, then I see it as hypocritical cry baby, I don't have a ring, I wish I would of done that, bs.




Of course he can, if we wait for something to happen its not much of a prediction/proclamation is it? Its hard to envision a role with THAT MUCH TALENT around him where he has to do so much.

Oh so your loss of respect for Durant is more of a prediction of your loss of respect?




Speak for yourself, prejudging (projecting/predicting is a better word here) is part of the game, dont you ever gamble or is it such a fail for you that you just never try? If you do gamble then stop being a hypocrite.


I don't gamble. I play fantasy football for fun, I prefer free leagues.




Because so much went wrong for GS and Cleveland BARELY won. Its hardly a laughable statement when many do believe GS SHOULD have won and its at worse a similar proposition. So lol indeed, what a *****.

OK, I have zero doubt seeing Lebron and Durant lining up and killing the league especially after the winning the ship would end up garnering a greater degree of mal-content but we dont get to see that so...

lol, please
10-26-2016, 06:37 PM
exactly. Well put. Nobody should be crapping on GS for drafting perfectly, and then being lucky enough to have a roster more talented than everyone else, at the exact same time a new TV deal allowed the cap to explode, essentially allowing a one time loophole for teams that were maxed out to all of a sudden have max room.

It's on Durant. Nothing he does in the win column will be looked at as special. GS doesn't even need him. Any chip he wins with the current GS roster means nothing to his all time ranking. Will it mean something to him personally? I am sure. But it means nothing to his legacy.

KD's legacy skyrockets if he wins some rings. Especially if he performs well in the playoffs.

Chronz
10-26-2016, 06:58 PM
KD's legacy skyrockets if he wins some rings. Especially if he performs well in the playoffs.

That you even have to preface it with "IF" makes this so pitiful. This reads as if you know he can win some rings without even playing all that well and nobody will care if he wins that way, you guys will go down as the greatest team ever if they fulfill their potential but individual awards/GOAT-acknowledgement have gone bye bye. If everything goes as predicted, I see this being one of the most hallow rings ever attained by an alleged great.

Htownballa1622
10-28-2016, 12:47 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-yells-at-imaginary-critics-in-post-practice-workout/

Not sure if I should've made new thread but just wanted to post this.

He losing it? Kinda corny.

kdspurman
10-28-2016, 03:09 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-yells-at-imaginary-critics-in-post-practice-workout/

Not sure if I should've made new thread but just wanted to post this.

He losing it? Kinda corny.

I hate when guys put on a front for the camera lol

He also tries to keep up with this act that he doesn't care what people/the media say, but he so clearly does. He should just take the Lebron approach (though it took him a while too) and just embrace the role you chose to give yourself.

Doing this won't change anyone's opinion of him IMO. (those who did call him a coward at least)

SteBO
10-28-2016, 03:27 PM
I don't even hate it as much as I'm amused by it. On top of what you said kdspur, it comes off as if he's trying to play the victim. Dude's a supreme talent, and he went to an already set team. He brought it on himself. But hey, go on and manufacture nonsensical strawmen to motivate yourself

Vee-Rex
10-28-2016, 06:40 PM
I find it amusing too.

But it's also confirmation that deep down inside, he feels that he made the easier, least competitive choice. It's why he's so affected by everything (same reason LeBron was wilting under his critics for The Decision).

tredigs
10-28-2016, 09:07 PM
He's an emotional guy in a world riper than ever with trolls. He's also one of the most talented players in history and whatever it takes to anger that player and make him work even harder? Thank you.

Miltstar
10-28-2016, 09:23 PM
I hear what you're saying, as a Raptors fan I wouldn't have wanted Durant to come here to put us over the top, I'd rather watch Kyle and Demar give everything they got and lose than to bring in a ringer

JAZZNC
10-28-2016, 09:44 PM
I hear what you're saying, as a Raptors fan I wouldn't have wanted Durant to come here to put us over the top, I'd rather watch Kyle and Demar give everything they got and lose than to bring in a ringer

That's just a damn lie. I love when fans act like they wouldn't want something they couldn't/don't have!

Are you kidding me!?!? If Lebron, Curry, and AD wanted to join the Jazz I'd be all about the butt ****ing we'd give the league!

nycericanguy
10-29-2016, 01:04 PM
I hear what you're saying, as a Raptors fan I wouldn't have wanted Durant to come here to put us over the top, I'd rather watch Kyle and Demar give everything they got and lose than to bring in a ringer

no shame in KD going to a team that he really could have been the man on and taken them over hte top... now joining a 73 win team that just beat u is another story...lol

lol, please
10-29-2016, 02:48 PM
I hear what you're saying, as a Raptors fan I wouldn't have wanted Durant to come here to put us over the top, I'd rather watch Kyle and Demar give everything they got and lose than to bring in a ringer

Honestly I believe you and I understand this train of thought.

I was the EXACT same way when it came to the 49ers. When there were rumors we would get Peyton Manning, I very publicly (on PSD) said I wanted nothing to do with him, because I knew if we won a Super Bowl the narrative would be how Peyton came here to help us win, and I didn't want that as a fan. As you said, I would rather watch my team sink and burn with homegrown talent and longstanding members of the team over winning it all with offseason mercenaries.

People scoff that that, but to me winning isn't all that matters, how you win is equally important.

lol, please
10-29-2016, 03:11 PM
Because so much went wrong for GS and Cleveland BARELY won. Its hardly a laughable statement when many do believe GS SHOULD have won and its at worse a similar proposition. So lol indeed, what a *****.

If this was true, why are we(GS fans) met with aggression on here when we say the Warriors are a better team than the Cavaliers despite losing the Finals? Seems like you agree with that notion here.

If so many believe we should have won, saying the warriors were the best team last season shouldn't be met with flak.

Saddletramp
10-29-2016, 03:13 PM
Honestly I believe you and I understand this train of thought.

I was the EXACT same way when it came to the 49ers. When there were rumors we would get Peyton Manning, I very publicly (on PSD) said I wanted nothing to do with him, because I knew if we won a Super Bowl the narrative would be how Peyton came here to help us win, and I didn't want that as a fan. As you said, I would rather watch my team sink and burn with homegrown talent and longstanding members of the team over winning it all with offseason mercenaries.

People scoff that that, but to me winning isn't all that matters, how you win is equally important.

I told myself I was just going to ignore you from now on but serious question: this post leads me to believe that you're against the Durant signing, yes?

lol, please
10-29-2016, 03:23 PM
I told myself I was just going to ignore you from now on but serious question: this post leads me to believe that you're against the Durant signing, yes?

I figured someone would bring up Durant and try to expose me as inconsistent, and I have my response prepared.

In short, I don't really consider it the same thing. Maybe from an outsiders point of view it is, but there are differences that matter to me as a fan.

Durant was already my favorite non-warrior, I never liked/disliked Peyton so there was no emotion there. I was more emotionally attached to both Alex Smith and Kaepernick at the time and wanted to see it "work" with them.

We also didn't win the SB before the Peyton rumors, we weren't some juggernaut team already or anything, and we still had to prove we could win it all in the first place. The warriors won a championship and then lost in the finals, had we not won yet, I think I would more strongly oppose the Durant move because I would be convinced we could win without him and I wouldn't want people saying "oh, the splash bros could't win without Durant".

Finally, Durant is the one marquee FA that has come to the warriors since Lee, all the rest are home grown talent. the 49ers are a more storied franchise with less of an issue bringing in names even during poor seasons. There's just something special about landing a FA, and as a warrior fan its a treat in and of itself.


Now, like I said, to an outsider im sure it's pretty much the same thing and I look like I am cherry picking situations here, but this is my honest take on it.


HINDSIGHT: NOW, if you were to ask me, would I rather have landed Peyton if it meant winning the SB even if he turned around and left. Yes. I'd take that. I was without question the biggest Kaepernick homer around here and if I knew then what I know now, how things turned out in the end, of course I woulda rather won with anyone before we fell apart.

Saddletramp
10-30-2016, 06:33 AM
I can sort of buy that. I buy the cherry picking a bit more, though.

KnicksorBust
10-31-2016, 11:48 AM
I grew up a Yankees fan so I actually feel like I went through this myself. When they won in the late 90s with homegrown talent (Jeter/Bernie/Jorge/Andy/Mo/etc.) that was an amazing experience. Topped only by the David Tyree/Giants superbowl (thank god my other teams are good at sports). However, the Yankees over the next 15 years just kept throwing money at the Giambi's / Texiera's / Sabathias / and of course Arods of the world outspending teams by absurd amounts of money. I never liked those teams as much as the 90s teams but it didn't make me not want to be a fan anymore. At the end of the day it is fun to have stars on your team...

tredigs
10-31-2016, 12:01 PM
I can sort of buy that. I buy the cherry picking a bit more, though.

Must be so hard to root for your team in that case, as your entire entity is forged talent.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 12:11 PM
KD's legacy skyrockets if he wins some rings. Especially if he performs well in the playoffs.

No, it doesn't. Would Hakeem's legacy skyrocket if he joined the 3 peat Bulls, Jordan didn't "retire", and they won a chip? Easy example for you.

KD winning is expected. Anything less is a total failure. Winning is just "ho-hum, you better have with that team".

KG2TB
10-31-2016, 12:15 PM
It will be fun to watch. I don't really care about all of the drama. To get all worked up about someones personal decision is dumb. Its just the NBA its just sports, not Life. Its entertainment and we have no say about what goes on. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

Exactly this.

Vee-Rex
10-31-2016, 12:24 PM
Although I'm not a big LeBron fan for a number of reasons (I just respect his talent/game), he still feels like home-grown talent to me. I dislike the way he left for Miami, but he seemed genuine in his return to Cleveland.

Kyrie is obviously home-grown.

Love isn't but we didn't win a championship on his back either. He was a good part especially against non-Warriors teams, but not THE backbone that LeBron and Kyrie were.

We obviously don't win without JR either, but he's not THE backbone.

I used to be so disappointed with Tristan, man. Back when it was just him and Kyrie - the Cavs organization would hype Tristan so much and I didn't care much for him. "Double T is getting so better! He's a double-double machine! (he was more like a 9/9 guy). Double T will improve so much!" I was disappointed when we drafted him and I was disappointed at his ceiling after watching him for 3 years.

LeBron coming back changed that. Tristan was never gonna be an all-star or even close to it, but he is an integral piece on a team that can relegate him to being a role-player and not more. Now that I see that, I've come to appreciate him game much more.

3/5 of our starting lineup is home-grown, with our 2 best players being home-grown. That was satisfying enough for me. Even if that wasn't the case, I don't think a city who haven't won a sports title since the '60s could ever be dissatisfied with winning one.

D-Leethal
10-31-2016, 01:06 PM
No, it doesn't. Would Hakeem's legacy skyrocket if he joined the 3 peat Bulls, Jordan didn't "retire", and they won a chip? Easy example for you.

KD winning is expected. Anything less is a total failure. Winning is just "ho-hum, you better have with that team".

I think it will be always tainted to a degree unless someone emerges as a very-worthy opponent to their inevitable crown. Say the Cavs steamroll the competition this year and win close to 70 games, Dubs have some growing pains, some weaknesses emerge and win 62, I think in that scenario the Dubs and KD will get credit if they win the Finals against CLE. I always thought LeBron wouldn't get any credit but Miami turned out not to be as good as everyone thought they would be for various reasons so when they won the chips LeBron got the credit. I think that sets a precedent for KD (I know KD's jump was more extreme than Brons).

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 01:10 PM
KD is their best player by a wide margin. I wouldn't be mad about that at all.

Scoots
10-31-2016, 01:29 PM
Bogut's loss is the biggest issue, but everybody knew that was coming regardless of KD coming. Ezeli's loss was also predictable because he just couldn't stay healthy. Then they drafted a replacement and he is hurt. The almost total lack of a rim protector on the floor is putting their whole defense out of balance. On the offensive end Barbosa and Speights were almost certainly gone this season too, and the loss of Bogut and those two had a significant impact on the flow of their offense.

Unfortunately all of that was independent of KD so not really the point of this thread.

I was not a big proponent of the Warriors pursuing KD "at all costs" but the way things played out ... but when Barnes got a max offer then really the best outcome for the team would be adding KD to replace Barnes.

FlashBolt
10-31-2016, 01:30 PM
Are Warriors pushing Curry as the 2nd option with KD? Their interior gets smashed every time. That will NEVER change.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 02:13 PM
"Pushing him" as a 2nd option? Bad troll is bad. Curry is averaging 18 FGA's (team high), 9 threes and 5 FTA's a game. Klay's at 16+ attempts and Draymond 11 attempts. It's essentially the same across the board. KD's usage of 7+ attempts and 7+ FT's over Barnes slot is being filled in by ~1-2 attempts from Curry/Klay and the bench. As a team they're just not in rhythm yet, that's going to take 50-60 games or so to work itself out I'd imagine. Still, they're talent is too strong not to win 90% of their games while they mesh. Bogut was a 15-20 mpg aging big with massive injury issues who they lost or sat in both NBA Finals and is currently struggling to adapt in Dallas. They'll take his loss given the alternative. You can't be All-NBA at every position.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 02:14 PM
I think it will be always tainted to a degree unless someone emerges as a very-worthy opponent to their inevitable crown. Say the Cavs steamroll the competition this year and win close to 70 games, Dubs have some growing pains, some weaknesses emerge and win 62, I think in that scenario the Dubs and KD will get credit if they win the Finals against CLE. I always thought LeBron wouldn't get any credit but Miami turned out not to be as good as everyone thought they would be for various reasons so when they won the chips LeBron got the credit. I think that sets a precedent for KD (I know KD's jump was more extreme than Brons).

Durant isn't joining a round 1 exit machine (Bosh), and a slowly breaking down Wade. He is joining the back to back MVP in his peak, and 2 other all NBA players, in their peak. A team that won 73 games, and a chip, without him. Seriously, there is no precedent for what happened this summer, for multiple reasons (seriously, never happens in any other year, the cap just skyrocketed).

It would take injuries to a couple of those stars and Durant leading them to huge heights to mean anything.

More easily put- I don't see how GS becomes a team that can't win without Durant being the best player on the floor.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 02:25 PM
Durant isn't joining a round 1 exit machine (Bosh), and a breaking down Wade. He is joining the back to back MVP in his peak, and 2 other all NBA players, in their peak. A team that won 73 games, and a chip, without him. Seriously, there is no precedent for what happened this summer, for multiple reasons (seriously, never happens in any other year, the cap just skyrocketed).

It would take injuries to a couple of those stars and Durant leading them to huge heights to mean anything.

More easily put- I don't see how GS becomes a team that can't win without Durant being the best player on the floor.

Joined a "breaking down Wade". Lol Hawk? Wade was in his 20's and fresh off a full season of 27/5/7 and a 28 PER as an All-Defensive team player/All-NBA 1st Teamer. He was the best player on the floor for them in their first NBA Finals. In most people's mind the best players in the world were Kobe, Lebron and Dwyane Wade. I don't even care about the rest of your post until you address that.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 02:28 PM
Joined a "breaking down Wade". Lol Hawk? Wade was in his 20's and fresh off a full season of 27/5/7 and a 28 PER as an All-Defensive team player/All-NBA 1st Teamer. He was the best player on the floor for them in their first NBA Finals. In most people's mind the best players in the world were Kobe, Lebron and Dwyane Wade. I don't even care about the rest of your post until you address that.

Look at Wade, year by year, after the big 3 came together. Each year was worse, his had some playoff runs where he was straight up trash by a "star" standard.

Their first playoff run, LeBron was their best player. For whatever reason (some say tired, some say Dallas loaded up, he played terrible for LeBron standards), he **** the bed in the finals. And guess what-------his team lost....

you don't need to address the rest of my point. The numbers are there. LeBron isn't his teams best player---->they lose. I can't see where Durant becomes that. He doesn't need to dominate for the Warrior to win. That is my entire point, and why I think it's absolutely different and don't agree with the comparison.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 02:30 PM
Joined a "breaking down Wade". Lol Hawk? Wade was in his 20's and fresh off a full season of 27/5/7 and a 28 PER as an All-Defensive team player/All-NBA 1st Teamer. He was the best player on the floor for them in their first NBA Finals. In most people's mind the best players in the world were Kobe, Lebron and Dwyane Wade. I don't even care about the rest of your post until you address that.

To put this in further perspective, KD is 28 (slightly younger than Curry + the same age as Wade when Bron ran to Miami) and has been in the league a full decade. Bron was 25 when he left Cleveland.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 02:36 PM
Look at Wade, year by year, after the big 3 came together. Each year was worse, his had some playoff runs where he was straight up trash by a "star" standard.

Their first playoff run, LeBron was their best player. For whatever reason (some say tired, some say Dallas loaded up, he played terrible for LeBron standards), he **** the bed in the finals. And guess what-------his team lost....

you don't need to address the rest of my point. The numbers are there. LeBron isn't his teams best player---->they lose. I can't see where Durant becomes that. He doesn't need to dominate for the Warrior to win. That is my entire point, and why I think it's absolutely different and don't agree with the comparison.

His future deterioration does not help your point in the slightest. WHEN BRON JOINED, D Wade was an apex predator in the NBA and the face of his franchise. A proven champion and Finals MVP at that. That's the player 'Bron wanted to be with (along with another All-NBA player to boot). WHEN WADE DID AGE? Lebron hopped back out at the FIRST opportunity to join another younger star and another All-NBA big. Had he stayed in Miami? OK, you'd have something to work with here. He didn't. He ran back to greener pastures (don't blame him btw).

Bears mentioning that 'Bron is not KD. 'Bron is the SELF-PROCLAIMED "Chosen One", the man who is unabashed in his ambition to be the best player in NBA history. Fair or not, it's a different playing field, and frankly you are being hypocritical as **** even if they were on the same playing field.

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 02:40 PM
Wade is still pretty damn good. LeBron was nowhere to be found in the 4th quarter against the Mavs in the finals. I will say looking back at that series Wade was amazing but it was big 3 or bust and he was the only one that showed up IIRC.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 03:19 PM
His future deterioration does not help your point in the slightest. WHEN BRON JOINED, D Wade was an apex predator in the NBA and the face of his franchise. A proven champion and Finals MVP at that. That's the player 'Bron wanted to be with (along with another All-NBA player to boot). WHEN WADE DID AGE? Lebron hopped back out at the FIRST opportunity to join another younger star and another All-NBA big. Had he stayed in Miami? OK, you'd have something to work with here. He didn't. He ran back to greener pastures (don't blame him btw).

Bears mentioning that 'Bron is not KD. 'Bron is the SELF-PROCLAIMED "Chosen One", the man who is unabashed in his ambition to be the best player in NBA history. Fair or not, it's a different playing field, and frankly you are being hypocritical as **** even if they were on the same playing field.

I am not being hypocritical at all. There are so many clear differences, it's easy to point out the alpha versus beta differences.

If Curry, Green, and Klay all deteriorate, and Durant needs to be the best player in every series he plays for GS to win, I will gladly concede that I was mistaken. Afterall, that is what needs to happen to move towards "this is comparable". The results that is, not the initial join. Wade/Bosh weren't already on some super team that won a chip. That is the start point.

In all honesty, most of what annoys me, is that I hope the other 29 teams aren't all playing for 2nd the next few years. How boring would that be?

FlashBolt
10-31-2016, 03:32 PM
Why are you guys still "debating" with a proven homer who never concedes when he's clearly wrong? Wade won a championship five years before LeBron got there.. team was immensely different from the team LeBron joined. Durant went to join basically the same team. Even though Warriors choked, they would still have been favorites to win this season. LeBron made Miami Heat great; Durant will just make them greater. Heat absolutely need LeBron to win.. and so do the Cavs. Hell, take LeBron out and Cavs would probably be a 45 win team. Take Durant out and the Warriors broke the regular season record. Wade was already depleting the second year LeBron had him. You can't honestly compare LeBron and Durant situations anymore. I'm actually a bit glad we lost KD in the sense that he was a fake player. If he was really unhappy with Westbrooks game, maybe he should speak up instead of hiding around like a damn sissy.

Chronz
10-31-2016, 03:36 PM
To put this in further perspective, KD is 28 (slightly younger than Curry + the same age as Wade when Bron ran to Miami) and has been in the league a full decade. Bron was 25 when he left Cleveland.
Same age as Wade with the kind of skillset that should theoretically age better VS a guy who had suffered a career altering injury as early as College and has a history of hitting the deck and getting hurt throughout important stretches of his career (sandwiched right between his lone F.MVP is him getting hurt and costing his team a Finals in 05 and going full bore in the 07 playoffs). Its fair to say the gamble KD took in joining Steph+a champion/73 win team amidst its prime is FAR more of a sure thing than hooking up with a declining Wade (numbers were dropping before Bron ever showed up) and a bunch of guys who couldn't get past round 1 if that far at all.

And sure you guys can say Wade was the best in the Finals but overall, their playoff lines aren't that different considering Bron got the majority of the defensive attention on a shallow team that was playing traditional/outdated ball with Ericka Dampier and the corpse of Mike Bibby ffs.

Its not like Hawks is out of line, the fact that the ensuing years only proved him to be correct doesn't damn his argument as you suggest, it only cements it because its something many saw coming because we've already seen his career plagued by timely injuries. Its a risk assessment thing, and these 2 decisions are nothing alike.

To me, Wade should've lightened his playing weight and honed his jumper the minute Bron came on board, instead he waited for the injuries to pile up and for Bron to stop carrying his load for him.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 03:41 PM
I am not being hypocritical at all. There are so many clear differences, it's easy to point out the alpha versus beta differences.

If Curry, Green, and Klay all deteriorate, and Durant needs to be the best player in every series he plays for GS to win, I will gladly concede that I was mistaken. Afterall, that is what needs to happen to move towards "this is comparable". The results that is, not the initial join. Wade/Bosh weren't already on some super team that won a chip. That is the start point.

In all honesty, most of what annoys me, is that I hope the other 29 teams aren't all playing for 2nd the next few years. How boring would that be?

What's hypocritical is pretending that Wade was some aging beta piece when 'Bron joined. That's just an outright false statement and my gripe with your comments. I am already on record saying both moves were weak, but ultimately fine. That was my stance on 'Bron's move at the time, and KD's at the time.

@Flashbolt, you're too stupid for this conversation. Let the men talk.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 03:47 PM
What's hypocritical is pretending that Wade was some aging beta piece when 'Bron joined. That's just an outright false statement and my gripe with your comments. I am already on record saying both moves were weak, but ultimately fine. That was my stance on 'Bron's move at the time, and KD's at the time.

@Flashbolt, you're too stupid for this conversation. Let the men talk.

yeah, Wade wasn't far off his elite status when they came together. We all knew his style, injuries, and inability with the long ball, would cause a rapid downfall when it happened. Impossible to predict he would turn into Lt. Dan during some playoff runs so soon, I get it. But you seriously didn't see Wade already declining, prior to them joining? And we can't sit here and rest on predictions. Again, Bosh led his team to first round exits, and what else did they have?

I could really care less about either's moves. To me, Durant's cries "beta" so much more, for all sorts of reasons. A lot needs to happen for any ring he wins to push his legacy into legend status. And I don't see it happening. He is just along for the ride, so to speak. But ****, it's your team, and like any fans of a team, they want the biggest advantage possible, so enjoy the ride dude.

Chronz
10-31-2016, 03:50 PM
Wade is still pretty damn good. LeBron was nowhere to be found in the 4th quarter against the Mavs in the finals. I will say looking back at that series Wade was amazing but it was big 3 or bust and he was the only one that showed up IIRC.
No doubt, I've asked other before but its a tricky question, who played better in their Finals? Steph when he won his first ring or Wade when he tasted defeat that year?

tredigs
10-31-2016, 03:56 PM
yeah, Wade wasn't far off his elite status when they came together. We all knew his style, injuries, and inability with the long ball, would cause a rapid downfall when it happened. Impossible to predict he would turn into Lt. Dan during some playoff runs so soon, I get it. But you seriously didn't see Wade already declining, prior to them joining? And we can't sit here and rest on predictions. Again, Bosh led his team to first round exits, and what else did they have?

I could really care less about either's moves. To me, Durant's cries "beta" so much more, for all sorts of reasons. A lot needs to happen for any ring he wins to push his legacy into legend status. And I don't see it happening. He is just along for the ride, so to speak. But ****, it's your team, and like any fans of a team, they want the biggest advantage possible, so enjoy the ride dude.

All just depends on how he plays, who they play, who's injured and who's not, etc etc. This is literally the exact sentiment that most had concerning Lebron at the time ("he's joining a proven champion who is a top 3 player", "he's weak", "his rings will be tainted as they are a lock to win every year, and he'll never win another MVP", etc etc etc). I couldn't stand those comments. My response was always, "let's just see how everything plays out". And while I fully understand and agree that KD is joining an even more cozy situation (granted, there is a force from both 'Bron's Cavs and Kawhi's Spurs that outweigh any of his competition and balances it out quite a bit IMO), my stance is the same here. Let's see how it plays out.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 04:14 PM
All just depends on how he plays, who they play, who's injured and who's not, etc etc. This is literally the exact sentiment that most had concerning Lebron at the time ("he's joining a proven champion who is a top 3 player", "he's weak", "his rings will be tainted as they are a lock to win every year, and he'll never win another MVP", etc etc etc). I couldn't stand those comments. My response was always, "let's just see how everything plays out". And while I fully understand and agree that KD is joining an even more cozy situation (granted, there is a force from both 'Bron's Cavs and Kawhi's Spurs that outweigh any of his competition and balances it out quite a bit IMO), my stance is the same here. Let's see how it plays out.

I didn't think that at all. I found the "Decision" idiotic, but he was essentially becoming his own GM, since his had failed. He was joining a player who had won a few years prior, with injuries in between, and a player from another team that never got past round 1 with him leading, and a bunch of role players on cheap deals. That just isn't the same as joining arguably the greatest regular season team ever, who also won a chip, with the back to back MVP, and 2 other elite players in their primes. It just isn't the same dude. Whatever public perception was/is, is not a concern of mine, I only fight for what I view or see.

I feel the need, one last time here, to say, I don't blame the Warriors, or Durant. An oddity with the cap exploding, allowed a contender max space. When the hell would that ever happen?

Of course we have to see how it plays out. Durant needs a lot of things to go south for his teammates, while winning, to help his legacy. Just how it is. Whatever your perception of LeBron's potential legacy was, from 2010 on, I am sure changed over time. Durant will have the chance.

It annoys me when people claim Durant's FA was the same as LeBron's. There are so many differences it's crazy.

Chronz
10-31-2016, 04:15 PM
What's hypocritical is pretending that Wade was some aging beta piece when 'Bron joined. That's just an outright false statement and my gripe with your comments. I am already on record saying both moves were weak, but ultimately fine. That was my stance on 'Bron's move at the time, and KD's at the time.

@Flashbolt, you're too stupid for this conversation. Let the men talk.

I will say, had Wade defied the odds and aged beautifully with zero problems, say he sustained his health the way he did his first year with Bron/final year before hitting his 30's, then we prolly see Miami do something historic that 2nd or 3rd year (the winning streak year) akin to GS last year. Then the 2 are viewed within closer proximity as far as defections go, with the difference between the 2 being that Bron left a badly run team that couldn't sway local products to leave even the smallest of markets vs KD leaving the kind of talent Bron would have killed for (him leaving in poor taste isn't an issue for me tho) and the fact that Bron created his super team rather than hop on board. The fact that there were questions about how Wade would hold up and the lack of talent around them is what makes it such a no brainer and why KD is on another stratosphere.


Come to think about it, didn't Wade get hurt in the series vs Dallas any how? Man that guy left so many chips/finals on the table because of injuries.

Projections are fun but reality is still what matters, and Hawk has laid out the kind of reality it would take for the 2 being on equal footing. KD has far more talent alongside him than anyone of his stature has EVER had IMO

tredigs
10-31-2016, 04:29 PM
I will say, had Wade defied the odds and aged beautifully with zero problems, say he sustained his health the way he did his first year with Bron/final year before hitting his 30's, then we prolly see Miami do something historic that 2nd or 3rd year (the winning streak year) akin to GS last year. Then the 2 are viewed within closer proximity as far as defections go, with the difference between the 2 being that Bron left a badly run team that couldn't sway local products to leave even the smallest of markets vs KD leaving the kind of talent Bron would have killed for (him leaving in poor taste isn't an issue for me tho) and the fact that Bron created his super team rather than hop on board. The fact that there were questions about how Wade would hold up and the lack of talent around them is what makes it such a no brainer and why KD is on another stratosphere.


Come to think about it, didn't Wade get hurt in the series vs Dallas any how? Man that guy left so many chips/finals on the table because of injuries.

Projections are fun but reality is still what matters, and Hawk has laid out the kind of reality it would take for the 2 being on equal footing. KD has far more talent alongside him than anyone of his stature has EVER had IMO

I don't agree with the reality that the future occurrences vindicate or vilify a past decision. I don't buy that 'Bron joined two of the best players in the world in their 20's on the expectations that they would fall victim to injury and life threatening blood clots, I believe he thought he was joining a "superteam" and was willing to shoulder all the blame that came with that. Granted, he somewhat crumbled and broke down under that pressure initially, famously crying in the locker room after a tough regular season loss that year (when they were anything but super at the time). Is KD joining a better situation? Sure. To say that he's the only player in history to do such a thing is also a meaningless comment to me though. This off-season was unique beyond words in the historical landscape of the NBA due to the cap explosion. No other player has had this OPPORTUNITY. The stars aligned for Golden State and KD's off-season.

I have ZERO doubts that innumerable past legends would have made the exact same jump to the Warriors if given that chance, despite their blowhard Monday-Night-QB comments to the contrary.

lol, please
10-31-2016, 04:38 PM
Look at Wade, year by year, after the big 3 came together. Each year was worse, his had some playoff runs where he was straight up trash by a "star" standard.


I stopped reading here because you are using HINDSIGHT to your advantage and that's not how this kind of debate works. What matters is the perception and reality at the time of LeBron ditching Cleveland to ring chase, not how things look years later. Hindsight is always 20/20, you know better.

lol, please
10-31-2016, 04:42 PM
I'm actually a bit glad we lost KD in the sense that he was a fake player. If he was really unhappy with Westbrooks game, maybe he should speak up instead of hiding around like a damn sissy.

So if Durant went back to OKC tomorrow and suited up and said he will ride or die with the Thunder until retirement, you would be upset? If you were the GM, you would disallow it?

Honest question because to be fair I don't believe you.

FlashBolt
10-31-2016, 04:45 PM
So if Durant went back to OKC tomorrow and suited up and said he will ride or die with the Thunder until retirement, you would be upset? If you were the GM, you would disallow it?

Honest question because to be fair I don't believe you.

Who cares what you believe? You flip-flop and change your arguments based on what fits your agenda. I never said OKC shouldn't want KD. What I said is that he should have been more assertive instead of beating around the bush. Hell, I even said Westbrook had to change his game. But that was something KD never said and allowed Westbrook to become alpha. That's his problem. Westbrook wants to win more than anything.

I also think you're reading Hawk's argument totally wrong. The reality is that Miami won because LeBron went Godlike. No matter what Wade did, it was because of LeBron. KD is going to have to prove that. Isn't it a bit sickening that reports said KD was not visibly frustrated when they lost to the Warriors? I'm willing to bet he already made his decision then and there.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 05:02 PM
I stopped reading here because you are using HINDSIGHT to your advantage and that's not how this kind of debate works. What matters is the perception and reality at the time of LeBron ditching Cleveland to ring chase, not how things look years later. Hindsight is always 20/20, you know better.

actually, results trump predictions 10/10 times dude.

If you read above, you will realize I said I didn't agree with public perception, that Miami would steamroll. Anyone who followed the game could see Wade's numbers going down, and "predicting" that a player who battled injuries every other year and played a crashing style would continue to drop, isn't exactly making me a genius, anyone should have been able to see that.

But yep, you are right. If some combination of Curry/Klay/Green get hurt for periods of time (namely, come playoff time), or just flat out regress and all but one of them falls off the all NBA teams (none on the 1st btw, just Durant gets that luxury, remember, Bron had only 1 other guy in Miami who made a 2nd team, and 3rd team in back to back years), and Durant has to be the best player on the floor for series at time, in order for his team to advance, you bet I will be the first to say, "congrats Durant".

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 05:03 PM
Must be so hard to root for your team in that case, as your entire entity is forged talent.

This has nothing to do with anything other than him saying two different things and trying to justify it. He's definitely cherry picking but at least the Warriors already proved they can win without KD. I've never cared about how players come to my team.

Next time you take a shot at someone, understand the conversation.

Chronz
10-31-2016, 05:17 PM
I don't agree with the reality that the future occurrences vindicate or vilify a past decision. I don't buy that 'Bron joined two of the best players in the world in their 20's on the expectations that they would fall victim to injury and life threatening blood clots, I believe he thought he was joining a "superteam" and was willing to shoulder all the blame that came with that. Granted, he somewhat crumbled and broke down under that pressure initially, famously crying in the locker room after a tough regular season loss that year (when they were anything but super at the time). Is KD joining a better situation? Sure. To say that he's the only player in history to do such a thing is also a meaningless comment to me though. This off-season was unique beyond words in the historical landscape of the NBA due to the cap explosion. No other player has had this OPPORTUNITY. The stars aligned for Golden State and KD's off-season.

I have ZERO doubts that innumerable past legends would have made the exact same jump to the Warriors if given that chance, despite their blowhard Monday-Night-QB comments to the contrary.

It was a super team, it just wasn't a super-diddly-duper team. Whether its by circumstance or cowardice, he is STILL the first. You can believe what you want but I already know of stars who refused to take the easiest road imaginable, that KD had the unmitigated gall to both proclaim "this is the hardest path" AND be so enamored by the loads of "open/easy looks" that first enamored him is what makes him so inept/insecure.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 05:20 PM
actually, results trump predictions 10/10 times dude.

If you read above, you will realize I said I didn't agree with public perception, that Miami would steamroll. Anyone who followed the game could see Wade's numbers going down, and "predicting" that a player who battled injuries every other year and played a crashing style would continue to drop, isn't exactly making me a genius, anyone should have been able to see that.

But yep, you are right. If some combination of Curry/Klay/Green get hurt for periods of time (namely, come playoff time), or just flat out regress and all but one of them falls off the all NBA teams (none on the 1st btw, just Durant gets that luxury, remember, Bron had only 1 other guy in Miami who made a 2nd team, and 3rd team in back to back years), and Durant has to be the best player on the floor for series at time, in order for his team to advance, you bet I will be the first to say, "congrats Durant".

I disagree man. While his legacy is effected positively or negatively by what actually takes place, the decision itself you have to take on face value at the time of the decision. Anything else is just being a Monday night quarterback and results-based. I see them as two entirely different things.

As per 'Bron joining a declining Wade and that mitigating the damage to his rep, I'm just not buying that logic what so ever and frankly it's just outright false and not debatable. Wade had back to back FULL season campaigns of utter dominance before 'Bron joined him. His prior two-year average was 28.5 / 5 / 7 +2.0 stl and 1.3 blk's on 48% from the field. An average PER of 29.2, WS/48 of .228. Back to back defensive teams? Check. Back to back All-NBA 1st team and back to back top-5 in MVP voting? Check check check. The playoff series he had against the juggernaut defense of Boston TWO MONTHS before 'Bron joined him in Miami? 33/6/7 on 56% from the field and 40% from three (on 7 attempts a game... career high). Ranked #1 in the post-season in PPG/USG/PER/BPM and TS%.

THAT is your fading star? Yeah, sorry. That argument is not flying my man. Throw in Bosh as a 24/11 guy and perennial AS (arguably 2nd best big in the league at the time) and it's just disingenuous to say that Bron was doing anything but joining THE best possible scenario for him to win a ring at all costs. When that cast did in fact fade in the coming years? He got the **** out of dodge at the FIRST chance he could.

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 05:44 PM
No doubt, I've asked other before but its a tricky question, who played better in their Finals? Steph when he won his first ring or Wade when he tasted defeat that year?

I would say Wade pretty easily. I know it's ESPN and their rankings seem to be pretty off but they ranked Wades finals performance in 2011 20th I believe. His 2006 was 1st but LeBron may have passed that last year.

I saw you bring up the point of Wade getting injured in crucial moments, had he not does he pass Kobe all time and is he basically a lock for top 10 or 15 all time?

If you look back he got injured up 3-2 in the conference finals against the Pistons, I think they win that if he doesn't get injured and then they play the Spurs in the finals and they had the Spurs number so they could've very well won that. He then gets injured 50 games into 2007 season and he was the leading MVP candidate at the time and the Heat were on track to get back to the finals more than likely. So right there you're looking at an MVP and possible 3 peat. 07-08 he had a bunch of surgeries to get himself right and that basically ended the Shaq era in Miami but he was basically done by then anyways.

He comes back the following year and leads USA to gold and puts up a great campaign for MVP of the league in which he probably should've won.

2011 finals he played great but as you said got hurt but still played well while injured but you have to think it may have slowed him down. In that finals he's the only teammate of LeBrons who I've ever seen rip LeBron a new one on live tv in front of millions of people. I don't hate LeBron but I thought it was both funny and showed how great a leader he was. I know we've gotten off topic but that actually kind of ties back into this conversation because KD was too scared to rip into Westbrook and that very well could've cost them a championship. I thought they would've at least got 1 together.

Wade was also injured in 2014 but I don't think they could've stopped the Spurs that year regardless they were on a mission.

So you're looking at potentially 3 more champions at least 1 MVP and 3 more finals MVPs. Not to mention the added numbers to his career totals that he would've had. Does this put him past Kobe and had he won those where does he rank all time?

If this is derailing the thread feel free not to respond or make a thread to talk about it I just didn't know how much of a hot topic it would've been.

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 05:47 PM
Who cares what you believe? You flip-flop and change your arguments based on what fits your agenda. I never said OKC shouldn't want KD. What I said is that he should have been more assertive instead of beating around the bush. Hell, I even said Westbrook had to change his game. But that was something KD never said and allowed Westbrook to become alpha. That's his problem. Westbrook wants to win more than anything.

I also think you're reading Hawk's argument totally wrong. The reality is that Miami won because LeBron went Godlike. No matter what Wade did, it was because of LeBron. KD is going to have to prove that. Isn't it a bit sickening that reports said KD was not visibly frustrated when they lost to the Warriors? I'm willing to bet he already made his decision then and there.

I bet he threw the series. I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't pull that one out. He knew if they lost in the finals he could join them but he wouldn't have joined the Warriors if OKC won that series or the Warriors won the finals. I just feel like KD has a really weak mindset even though he is a great player.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2016, 05:48 PM
I disagree man. While his legacy is effected positively or negatively by what actually takes place, the decision itself you have to take on face value at the time of the decision. Anything else is just being a Monday night quarterback and results-based. I see them as two entirely different things.


the details don't matter in our debate (for you and I personally, we see it a little differently). The fact is, I didn't see Miami as a sure thing. So I wasn't of the common public perception. I already saw Wade declining, and he had already proven he would miss long stretches from time to time. Bosh had proved nothing. The rest of the team? Role players. Essentially, the world knew that LeBron was finally getting chip help. That is all I saw. What I see with Durant? The team he joined doesn't need him to dominate the league. Like, they literally don't need him man.

That is the difference. Creating a team to lead to chips, versus joining one that already won, is different to me.

We do agree on the end result, as in, Durant's story hasn't been written in regards to his GS tenure. I have my reservations that he will do much to his legacy. We will see how it plays out, no doubt.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 06:14 PM
the details don't matter in our debate (for you and I personally, we see it a little differently). The fact is, I didn't see Miami as a sure thing. So I wasn't of the common public perception. I already saw Wade declining, and he had already proven he would miss long stretches from time to time. Bosh had proved nothing. The rest of the team? Role players. Essentially, the world knew that LeBron was finally getting chip help. That is all I saw. What I see with Durant? The team he joined doesn't need him to dominate the league. Like, they literally don't need him man.

That is the difference. Creating a team to lead to chips, versus joining one that already won, is different to me.

We do agree on the end result, as in, Durant's story hasn't been written in regards to his GS tenure. I have my reservations that he will do much to his legacy. We will see how it plays out, no doubt.
Hm. I don't know that I agree that the Warriors with Harrison Barnes are clearly favorites against San Antonio or Cleveland. Gotta realize that Bogut and Barbosa are both gone in this situation (couldn't afford him with Barnes at that contract, who they likely would have reluctantly grabbed if they missed on Durant. The other sought-after wings like Batum and Parsons were gone as well) and there's no telling if Zaza is even on the team if there's no Durant (let's say he is though). So it's last years team minus some depth. Title contender? Without question, but it would be a battle (frankly as we're seeing, it looks like it still will. Kawhi is a legit MVP now and the Spurs are looking like a force of nature, especially if Jonathon Simmons is for real).

I'm not really defending his decision to be honest, it was weak from a competitive standpoint for sure, but the Warriors future titles feel no more "guaranteed" to me than the Heats were. The Heat did not have competition at the Spurs or Cavs level imo. I'd take both squads over the Celtics or Lakers or Mavs. The Spurs got there again eventually obviously, but they were in "relative" remission when he made his decision.

At this point though, it's water under the bridge. I totally understand why you and Chronz feel the way you do (especially Chronz as now he will likely never see his favorite team win, and to be honest that's where I feel the bulk of his seething animosity for KD stems from. That said, they were gifted a superstar through highly sketchy means, so whatever). It happened. Now we get to see how everyone else responds. And so far so good for the league I'd say.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 06:19 PM
I bet he threw the series. I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't pull that one out. He knew if they lost in the finals he could join them but he wouldn't have joined the Warriors if OKC won that series or the Warriors won the finals. I just feel like KD has a really weak mindset even though he is a great player.

KD's effort was INCREDIBLE in that series dude, what are you talking about? Sure he rattled out a lot of shots that normally fall for him, but my God his defense was transcendent. He shut us the **** down on that end. Without a performance for the ages from Klay in game 6, we were probably toast. You can question his decision making mindset, but that is not a player to doubt from an in-game competition standpoint. He leaves it out on the court.

SteBO
10-31-2016, 06:24 PM
Damn....I'm kinda with tredigs on the Miami front to an extent. Wade was nothing short of sensational and awesome prior to 2010-2011, and I argued vehemently that he probably could've/should've won the MVP in 2009 (couldn't have much of a problem with 'Bron winning it). For that matter, I didn't really notice a decline of any sort until after 2011. Simply put, had Miami beaten Dallas in the Finals that year, Wade would've unquestionably won Finals MVP, and the conversation we have about LBJ would be completely different. But the latter didn't happen, and that is where results matter. You won't find a single Miami fan alive that doesn't associate most of the credit to LBJ for the HEAT's Finals wins, and that's where the conversation changed.

KD is gonna another matter entirely unless he proves to be THE largest reason for the Warriors winning a title. The media pressure won't top what was aimed at LeBron, given that winning the title in of itself wasn't close to being easy, but it's there. Pro sports is a results-driven industry.

mngopher35
10-31-2016, 06:56 PM
Even without Wade being considered fading at the time the context at the time still isn't the same for Durant though if you want to make the comparison. It really doesn't matter if you want to use how it played out or context at the time of the moves IMO.

Durant joined the guy who won the last 2 MVP's and was widely argued as the best player, that was Lebron in 2011 not someone he joined. Durant was the only top 5 player last year already playing with another top 5-7 player in Westy, Lebron had Mo Williams (it was clear one of them lacked help and it wasn't Durant). Lebron joined two other stars but was considered the best player on this new 3 headed super team he was supposed to lead, Durant joined the super team with 3 stars already in place that had won a title and set the wins record without him. I am not completely sure the numbers are exact so someone could look it up but I remember also talking about the differences in odds/betting lines to win at the time. It was about 38% Miami to win and 28% Lakers in 11. GS is/was favored over the entire field at about 60% (it was at the time at least, I had looked this up in another thread and am going off what I remember, Cleveland was closest around 22%). This big increase of odds for GS over others also comes after Miami which has tempered expectations for super teams somewhat as well.

Both moves can for sure be called weak but Durants was on a much higher level given the context surrounding it. Whether or not you see Wade/the fit issues for Heat as a problem or not it really doesn't matter with the level Durant stacked it in his favor and the situation he left.

This doesn't mean he can't earn great respect still because just like I said with Miami we definitely have to wait and see. I just think it will be much harder for Durant to overcome this because not only does his move look worse given that context but I am not sure he will even be the clear leader of that team like Lebron was. As to the initial point of the thread I would be ecstatic to have this "issue" on my favorite team lol. Warriors fans should love this even if many fans from other teams will likely root against them or bash Durant etc. It comes with having that much talent on your team.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 07:22 PM
Even without Wade being considered fading at the time the context at the time still isn't the same for Durant though if you want to make the comparison. It really doesn't matter if you want to use how it played out or context at the time of the moves IMO.

Durant joined the guy who won the last 2 MVP's and was widely argued as the best player, that was Lebron in 2011 not someone he joined. Durant was the only top 5 player last year already playing with another top 5-7 player in Westy, Lebron had Mo Williams (it was clear one of them lacked help and it wasn't Durant). Lebron joined two other stars but was considered the best player on this new 3 headed super team he was supposed to lead, Durant joined the super team with 3 stars already in place that had won a title and set the wins record without him. I am not completely sure the numbers are exact so someone could look it up but I remember also talking about the differences in odds/betting lines to win at the time. It was about 38% Miami to win and 28% Lakers in 11. GS is/was favored over the entire field at about 60% (it was at the time at least, I had looked this up in another thread and am going off what I remember, Cleveland was closest around 22%). This big increase of odds for GS over others also comes after Miami which has tempered expectations for super teams somewhat as well.

Both moves can for sure be called weak but Durants was on a much higher level given the context surrounding it. Whether or not you see Wade/the fit issues for Heat as a problem or not it really doesn't matter with the level Durant stacked it in his favor and the situation he left.

This doesn't mean he can't earn great respect still because just like I said with Miami we definitely have to wait and see. I just think it will be much harder for Durant to overcome this because not only does his move look worse given that context but I am not sure he will even be the clear leader of that team like Lebron was. As to the initial point of the thread I would be ecstatic to have this "issue" on my favorite team lol. Warriors fans should love this even if many fans from other teams will likely root against them or bash Durant etc. It comes with having that much talent on your team.

What's really interesting is that it's arguable that he in fact did already play for the best team in the NBA when all the chips were on the table. I mean, if they run that OKC/GSW series 10 times, I'm thinking the Thunder win 5 or 6, and I would have taken them over Cleveland (in a hard-fought series). What that tells us is that he flat out was not enjoying his time with Westbrook any longer, and wanted out of OKC. The Warriors happened to be the team that appealed to him the most, and the Warriors happened to have the means to land him. It is what it is.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 07:24 PM
Yeah, the two moves aren't that close, for me at least. You didn't know how the Heat would gel, you already know what Klay/Steph/Green can do. And don't forget, the Heat didn't have some All D Center, either. Wade//Bosh plus Chalmers and Big Z(? Joel Anthony? I don't remember) or Steph/Klay/Green plus ZaZa? Which would you rather join?

Also, Kerr>Spolestra. People don't seem to bring tthat up much.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 07:31 PM
What would have been truly amazing is if Lebron beat KD to the punch and signed with Golden State. I think the collective heads of PSD, basketball-twitter and fans throughout the world would have simultaneously exploded in bewilderment, fear, panic and hatred. Then Lebron could revive his legacy as the greatest basketball super-villain who ever lived, and the Warriors would become the most hated organization in the history of sport.

Ahh, well. We'll stick with KD I guess.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 07:37 PM
What would have been truly amazing is if Lebron beat KD to the punch and signed with Golden State. I think the collective heads of PSD, basketball-twitter and fans throughout the world would have simultaneously exploded in bewilderment, fear, panic and hatred. Then Lebron could revive his legacy as the greatest basketball super-villain who ever lived, and the Warriors would become the most hated organization in the history of sport.

Ahh, well. We'll stick with KD I guess.

Yeah.........that woulda never happened. Lebron ain't above it all, but he ain't that low. Even if he hadn't won a title yet in his career, I don't think he would have done that.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 07:44 PM
Yeah.........that woulda never happened. Lebron ain't above it all, but he ain't that low. Even if he hadn't won a title yet in his career, I don't think he would have done that.

Lol obviously dude. KD's move is incredibly bold, but Lebron doing that after just going back to Cleveland would be literally impossible. The only way it could be conceivably worse is if Curry hit that shot over Love and the Warriors win the Finals, THEN Lebron comes to the Warriors anyway. I mean it is beyond comprehension but fun to think about it in the sense that it actually technically could have worked out that way haha.

mngopher35
10-31-2016, 07:45 PM
What's really interesting is that it's arguable that he in fact did already play for the best team in the NBA when all the chips were on the table. I mean, if they run that OKC/GSW series 10 times, I'm thinking the Thunder win 5 or 6, and I would have taken them over Cleveland (in a hard-fought series). What that tells us is that he flat out was not enjoying his time with Westbrook any longer, and wanted out of OKC. The Warriors happened to be the team that appealed to him the most, and the Warriors happened to have the means to land him. It is what it is.

Hmmm I had GS as best at the time but there is an argument, OKC was one of my 4 teams in the race to win it for sure last post season. After that GS series I can see adjusting them up a little based on the teams performance. OKC to me in like round 1 was about tied with Cle and I had slight edge Cleveland only because of Lebron/homecourt pretty much so basically a toss up. I can see an argument for them at least. It wouldn't surprise me much at all to find out Durant just really did have an issue with Westy.

Ya it is what it is and it was just the perfect timing/situation for something like this to happen with the cap jump. We haven't seen anything play out yet and until it happens we have no idea how much he will boost his legacy etc. or how the perception/situation changes. Despite what I said above in pointing out the differences of the situations that paint him in a worse light it doesn't take away that he still has an opportunity to earn that respect back (or whatever we call it, legacy points lol).

tredigs
10-31-2016, 07:57 PM
Hmmm I had GS as best at the time but there is an argument, OKC was one of my 4 teams in the race to win it for sure last post season. After that GS series I can see adjusting them up a little based on the teams performance. OKC to me in like round 1 was about tied with Cle and I had slight edge Cleveland only because of Lebron/homecourt pretty much so basically a toss up. I can see an argument for them at least. It wouldn't surprise me much at all to find out Durant just really did have an issue with Westy.

Ya it is what it is and it was just the perfect timing/situation for something like this to happen with the cap jump. We haven't seen anything play out yet and until it happens we have no idea how much he will boost his legacy etc. or how the perception/situation changes. Despite what I said above in pointing out the differences of the situations that paint him in a worse light it doesn't take away that he still has an opportunity to earn that respect back (or whatever we call it, legacy points lol).
Yeah I mean, going into the series I thought the Warriors are better (and maintained that after the first couple games most likely), but after watching the series, I realized we probably escaped and willed out a victory against the more powerful team. The emergence of Steven Adams is really what tipped the scales in their favor, and despite KD's absurd defensive presence that series, he just did not have it as a scorer, which in reality was VERY lucky for us (obviously for more than one reason). All in all it is pretty much a coin-flip, but they did outplay us if I'm being 100%. Some argue that this being the case only makes KD leaving worse, but I actually see it the other way. It's like if you're going to leave what is arguably the best team in the league (at least as h2h matchups against the other top teams go), then you can go wherever the hell you want. I'm sure he wishes it was a scenario where it was San Antonio that knocked them out and not the Warriors, but again, it is what it is.

mngopher35
10-31-2016, 08:21 PM
Yeah I mean, going into the series I thought the Warriors are better (and maintained that after the first couple games most likely), but after watching the series, I realized we probably escaped and willed out a victory against the more powerful team. The emergence of Steven Adams is really what tipped the scales in their favor, and despite KD's absurd defensive presence that series, he just did not have it as a scorer, which in reality was VERY lucky for us (obviously for more than one reason). All in all it is pretty much a coin-flip, but they did outplay us if I'm being 100%. Some argue that this being the case only makes KD leaving worse, but I actually see it the other way. It's like if you're going to leave what is arguably the best team in the league (at least as h2h matchups against the other top teams go), then you can go wherever the hell you want. I'm sure he wishes it was a scenario where it was San Antonio that knocked them out and not the Warriors, but again, it is what it is.

Ya the frontcourt/size/defense/versatility they had with Adams breaking out added onto Ibaka/Durant (who I have never seen play that level of defense as he did last post season) made them a very tough team for sure and given their play that series I get it as a possibility.

I lean towards it being a negative for him either way really lol, not sure if where OKC ranked among those teams matters a ton. If there are about 4 teams contending the last thing I want to see is the best player from one team to join up with one of the other 3 teams. Not only does it ruin one of those contenders but whichever top team he joins now moves way above the others, on paper at least.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 08:27 PM
Ya the frontcourt/size/defense/versatility they had with Adams breaking out added onto Ibaka/Durant (who I have never seen play that level of defense as he did last post season) made them a very tough team for sure and given their play that series I get it as a possibility.

I lean towards it being a negative for him either way really lol, not sure if where OKC ranked among those teams matters a ton. If there are about 4 teams contending the last thing I want to see is the best player from one team to join up with one of the other 3 teams. Not only does it ruin one of those contenders but whichever top team he joins now moves way above the others, on paper at least.

Yeah, for sure I totally get it. If I'm a fan of any other team this move is the worst thing in the world.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 08:30 PM
Lol obviously dude. KD's move is incredibly bold, but Lebron doing that after just going back to Cleveland would be literally impossible. The only way it could be conceivably worse is if Curry hit that shot over Love and the Warriors win the Finals, THEN Lebron comes to the Warriors anyway. I mean it is beyond comprehension but fun to think about it in the sense that it actually technically could have worked out that way haha.

I didn't even take him leaving Cleveland again into consideration. If last year was his final year in Miami and they would have lost to the Warriors or in the ECF, there'd be no way that he'd join this GS team. Only reason he left Cle was because of their incompetent front office (I guess they thought that he wouldn't dare leave) and the only place he would've left Miami for was back to Cleveland. Him joining the Celtics or Lakers then later the Spurs or Pacers? Never ever woulda happened.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 08:33 PM
I didn't even take him leaving Cleveland again into consideration. If last year was his final year in Miami and they would have lost to the Warriors or in the ECF, there'd be no way that he'd join this GS team. Only reason he left Cle was because of their incompetent front office (I guess they thought that he wouldn't dare leave) and the only place he would've left Miami for was back to Cleveland. Him joining the Celtics or Lakers then later the Spurs or Pacers? Never ever woulda happened.

Well, I do think there's a good chance he leaves again. I think at least a couple of the banana boaters will link up for a 1 or 2 year deal a few years down the road as a last hurrah, and it won't be in Cleveland.

Saddletramp
10-31-2016, 08:43 PM
Well, I do think there's a good chance he leaves again. I think at least a couple of the banana boaters will link up for a 1 or 2 year deal a few years down the road as a last hurrah, and it won't be in Cleveland.

At the tail end of their careers and not in their prime like Durant? Cool.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 08:47 PM
At the tail end of their careers and not in their prime like Durant? Cool.

Yes, I am speaking about the future, not in his peak like, well, Lebron.

Vee-Rex
10-31-2016, 10:19 PM
Yeah I mean, going into the series I thought the Warriors are better (and maintained that after the first couple games most likely), but after watching the series, I realized we probably escaped and willed out a victory against the more powerful team. The emergence of Steven Adams is really what tipped the scales in their favor, and despite KD's absurd defensive presence that series, he just did not have it as a scorer, which in reality was VERY lucky for us (obviously for more than one reason). All in all it is pretty much a coin-flip, but they did outplay us if I'm being 100%. Some argue that this being the case only makes KD leaving worse, but I actually see it the other way. It's like if you're going to leave what is arguably the best team in the league (at least as h2h matchups against the other top teams go), then you can go wherever the hell you want. I'm sure he wishes it was a scenario where it was San Antonio that knocked them out and not the Warriors, but again, it is what it is.

So...

You consider the Thunder as arguably the best from last year based on how they performed against SA and GS?

Wasn't Curry 'hurt'?

If it's a series that my team WON when my best player was 'hurt' then no way would I consider that OKC might have been better. Doesn't make sense.

Your point is understandable (though I disagree) if you felt Curry was mostly healthy.

So it seems the narrative is that he was mostly healthy for the WCF but noticably injured for the finals.

:laugh:

D-Leethal
10-31-2016, 10:41 PM
There's definitely a lot of revisionist history around the perception of the Heat when the Superfriends got together. They were supposed to walk their way to championships with their eyes closed. There was no worthy challenger to speak of at the time. Lakers died a fast death and nobody in their right minds thought the Bulls would ever win a series against them. Funny that those 2 teams didn't even end up giving them a run for it and it ended up being the Mavs, Spurs and Pacers.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 11:46 PM
So...

You consider the Thunder as arguably the best from last year based on how they performed against SA and GS?

Wasn't Curry 'hurt'?

If it's a series that my team WON when my best player was 'hurt' then no way would I consider that OKC might have been better. Doesn't make sense.

Your point is understandable (though I disagree) if you felt Curry was mostly healthy.

So it seems the narrative is that he was mostly healthy for the WCF but noticably injured for the finals.

:laugh:

The best teams don't always win the series, you do realize that I'm sure. It's first to four, it's as good and fun a process as we have, but there is obviously variance involved. Curry clearly wasn't 100%, but I'm sure they weren't either. I'm saying that while day in day out against the entire NBA the Warriors were the best team (though debatable at the end of the year, our best ball was played in the 1st half), it's certainly arguable that the Thunder were in fact the best team in the NBA last season when it came to h2h matchups. Had KD not missed a crazy amount of shots that he normally drains with ease (and Westbrook missed even more at 39%, but I more so expected that from him), or Klay doesn't have his game for the ages in G6 (I thought the series was over in G6 for us... similarly how I thought the Finals was over for Cleveland in G5 until the suspension rained down), we were toast. Ibaka/Adams with that tandem was just a little too strong and too fast for us. Which makes losing to what I would consider an inferior team in the Finals in Cleveland all the more painful. That was sort of a similar but reversed scenario where Curry (hampered or not) was just missing shots time and time over that he generally relishes, and Barnes - as **** as he is - just not being able to hit the side of the backboard in the Iggy role (IE the player Cleveland allowed to be wide open from three... the main reason why Iggy has a Finals MVP).

That's not me trying to discount Cleveland or the defensive strategies they implemented that also gave GSW fits, I'm just saying that I personally believe the team that was playing at the highest level in the post-season was OKC, not us and not the Cavs. I don't believe the Cavs are favorites to make the Finals if they're in the West last year.

tredigs
11-01-2016, 12:00 AM
There's definitely a lot of revisionist history around the perception of the Heat when the Superfriends got together. They were supposed to walk their way to championships with their eyes closed. There was no worthy challenger to speak of at the time. Lakers died a fast death and nobody in their right minds thought the Bulls would ever win a series against them. Funny that those 2 teams didn't even end up giving them a run for it and it ended up being the Mavs, Spurs and Pacers.
They were supposed to cake-walk to the Finals (essentially nobody believed the Celtics could beat them) where they would face the Lakers in the Finals and have an epic matchup (Vegas had the Heat as Title favorites right out of the gate). Except the Mavs were the team they ended up facing instead, which in turn made the Heat massive favorites to win the title. Dirk had different plans though.

I'm looking at the GM survey and in the following season >75% of GM's had them as the title favorites, and 100% of them had them coming out of the East (it says 96.4%, but that is the single vote from Riley where they are not allowed to vote for their own team on). Ditto the following seasons.

Looking at the 2016/17 season and we see that 69% of voters have the Warriors winning it all. Revisionist history indeed. Relative to the rest of the league, there is no more confidence in Golden State to win the title than there was for Miami.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 01:30 AM
There's definitely a lot of revisionist history around the perception of the Heat when the Superfriends got together. They were supposed to walk their way to championships with their eyes closed. There was no worthy challenger to speak of at the time. Lakers died a fast death and nobody in their right minds thought the Bulls would ever win a series against them. Funny that those 2 teams didn't even end up giving them a run for it and it ended up being the Mavs, Spurs and Pacers.

Coming from the guy who forgets Bosh was injured that's a slightly depleted statement. Lakers had an arguable equal(at the least on a similar tier) to Bron in Kobe (IMO anyways), sported the leagues best front court to boot and a strong defensive backbone. They had a weak PG but EVERYONE swore up and down Fisher's clutchness wasn't part of the problem and that it wasn't a necessity for Kobe and the mighty Triangle. There were plenty of questions regarding Wade sharing the ball with such similar games/statures, his declining production/impact and injury ravaged history made it doubly important they start winning asap. They were thin outside the Big-3 on top of not knowing much about each other.

Its not even in the same stratosphere and staying in Cleveland was never a legitimate option if he wanted to win a title.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 01:48 AM
At this point though, it's water under the bridge. I totally understand why you and Chronz feel the way you do (especially Chronz as now he will likely never see his favorite team win, and to be honest that's where I feel the bulk of his seething animosity for KD stems from.
You have it wrong, thanks to KD's cowardice, I have one less team to worry about. I've never come into a season so care free, the only way I get upset is if my team loses to anyone but the Dubs based on my projections. What I enjoy about the NBA has never been about parity but this is just too much to stomach, its the most amount of talent a single star of KD's caliber has ever been gifted, ALL the pressure is on him to win. Part of the fun this year will be to see how he unravels but I totally expect him to win, its just a matter of exactly how he fits in. I know I'm not alone, I've seen plenty of chatter on how Bron is basically playing with house money now and that this is the most pressure-less season hes had in YEARS.

I think it goes without saying that we have to wait and see how **** actually pans out, I'm just saying don't get mad that we project your teams success differently. I truly hope I'm wrong tho, I would love nothing more than seeing such a waste of talent on a team that already proven to had so much going for it. I don't say that because I hate your team, I say that because I hate Durants decision, NOT as a Clips fan but a fan of the NBA. Never forget bro, I became a Clippers fan because it allowed me the luxury of watching Hakeem, Clyde, Nique, basically, mostly guys who weren't on my home town team. I grew to favor them, obviously, but I don't put any team above the NBA.

I forget who said it but, there have been plenty of champions who were losers at the core and plenty of losers who were champions, or some **** like that. I have a strong feeling I will never look at KD like a champion if its as easy as it looks on paper. Hell, according to Zach Lowe(among others), the Warriors basically broke many teams projection systems.

nastynice
11-01-2016, 01:52 AM
Of course swapping a mediocre player in Barnes for a perennial MVP player in KD is amazing in a vacuum, but the Warriors were different. They had a very likable team and had become the darlings of the NBA. Curry had become the new face of the NBA. They basically had a fully homegrown team in Curry, Klay, Barnes, Draymond, etc. They had a rookie coach who instilled an offense that took the league by storm. They even won the championship after years of being an awful team, after concerns about Curry's long term health, after relegating former all star David Lee to the bench, etc.

Then they went out and broke the all time wins record a year later. Yea there were "haters" who wanted to beat them every night but everyone knew that they were a team that endured years of losing and built from within and people respected them. Now, that is totally not the case.

Now, the only people who like the Warriors are their own fans. They destroyed their media love, they destroyed Curry's golden child image, they destroyed a very likable team. In my opinion only part of being a fan is enjoying the success your team has. The other part of fandom is getting excited for a good upcoming matchup, or not knowing if they're going to win, or wondering if they will win the series, and then seeing what people in the media or even other fans are saying about your team and players.

Seeing constant negative headlines has to get annoying for Warriors fans. Hearing every announcer and former NBA player denouncing the quality of their future championships because KD sold out has to be annoying. All i know is, as a huge Lebron and NBA fan, i would not have wanted Lebron to come to my team if they were already a championship contender.

I can almost guarantee that when the Cavs play the Warriors in the finals in June, 99% of people will be rooting for LBJ and the Cavs. To me, having your team being the villian/hated is not fun at all...you can pretend that the "it's us against the world and we want to prove people wrong" is fun to root for but it's not and Miami admitted that after they won. It's a facade that you put up because you have no other option.

I'd be pissed if I was a warriors fan and KD came and ruined everything about them. Thoughts?

I honestly enjoy the hate, haha, its good to finally be relevant, and if that comes in the form of hate then so be it.

The only thing I'm not happy about regarding KD is that it hurt to lose both Bogut and Ezeli. Outside of that, regarding people saying this or that, really doesn't matter to me. I'll take as many "illegitimate" championships as we can get, I'm ok with that :)

Chronz
11-01-2016, 01:53 AM
I would say Wade pretty easily. I know it's ESPN and their rankings seem to be pretty off but they ranked Wades finals performance in 2011 20th I believe. His 2006 was 1st but LeBron may have passed that last year.

I saw you bring up the point of Wade getting injured in crucial moments, had he not does he pass Kobe all time and is he basically a lock for top 10 or 15 all time?

If you look back he got injured up 3-2 in the conference finals against the Pistons, I think they win that if he doesn't get injured and then they play the Spurs in the finals and they had the Spurs number so they could've very well won that. He then gets injured 50 games into 2007 season and he was the leading MVP candidate at the time and the Heat were on track to get back to the finals more than likely. So right there you're looking at an MVP and possible 3 peat. 07-08 he had a bunch of surgeries to get himself right and that basically ended the Shaq era in Miami but he was basically done by then anyways.

He comes back the following year and leads USA to gold and puts up a great campaign for MVP of the league in which he probably should've won.

2011 finals he played great but as you said got hurt but still played well while injured but you have to think it may have slowed him down. In that finals he's the only teammate of LeBrons who I've ever seen rip LeBron a new one on live tv in front of millions of people. I don't hate LeBron but I thought it was both funny and showed how great a leader he was. I know we've gotten off topic but that actually kind of ties back into this conversation because KD was too scared to rip into Westbrook and that very well could've cost them a championship. I thought they would've at least got 1 together.

Wade was also injured in 2014 but I don't think they could've stopped the Spurs that year regardless they were on a mission.

So you're looking at potentially 3 more champions at least 1 MVP and 3 more finals MVPs. Not to mention the added numbers to his career totals that he would've had. Does this put him past Kobe and had he won those where does he rank all time?

If this is derailing the thread feel free not to respond or make a thread to talk about it I just didn't know how much of a hot topic it would've been.
I agree with much of this, brought it up earlier. Wade's injury history was well documented and those 2 significant injuries were sandwiched right in between his lone F.MVP. Its hardly surprising that an injury prone player with a history dating prior to even entering the NBA, was injured throughout the majority of his playoff tenure with Bron aka his 30's. Obviously we cant predict how players adapt and change their games/bodies but that's why hindsight has only served to show us what ACTUALLY transpired throughout their tenure. Heres hoping Curry breaks his ankle and Draymond gets a life sentence for nut cracking.

nastynice
11-01-2016, 02:00 AM
You have it wrong, thanks to KD's cowardice, I have one less team to worry about. .

I don't know about all this stuff. People don't understand, KD didn't come to golden state to win a ring, he came here because we have a chance to build something truly special, something that stands the test of time, something that everyone from this era will remember. I think he went into that free agency feeling very confident that he's staying in okc, and I think when the warriors showed him what they are trying to do, he just couldn't say no. It was just too rare an opportunity to pass up.

Wether that actually plays out is a whole nother story, but the indgredients are definitely there to try and build a dynasty as good as any we've ever seen.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 02:21 AM
I don't know about all this stuff. People don't understand, KD didn't come to golden state to win a ring, he came here because we have a chance to build something truly special, something that stands the test of time, something that everyone from this era will remember. I think he went into that free agency feeling very confident that he's staying in okc, and I think when the warriors showed him what they are trying to do, he just couldn't say no. It was just too rare an opportunity to pass up.

Wether that actually plays out is a whole nother story, but the indgredients are definitely there to try and build a dynasty as good as any we've ever seen.
Who said I only expect a single ring when KD has set himself up for the easiest road ever traveled for the foreseeable future? My only hope is that he fails but yes, time will tell what we make of his decision but TBH, I don't see him having the kind of legacy you crave.

I had some people trying to tell me that all this noise would be forgotten once he won but I don't think unprecedented cowardice is ever forgotten. I don't care how KD began FA, only how he ended it because how he arrived there is ENTIRELY subjective. Plenty have alluded to the Dubs wooing him all year and him reciprocating those feelings. I don't for one second believe he intended to return based on how hes defended his decision and the rumors circling his departure. Feel free to believe what you wish but to me, his true greatness is forfeit with such an unholy union. Unless certain scenarios present themselves, like injuries forcing KD into manning up and actually working up GOAT level sweat OR the Dubs are so damn dominant it speaks to his own greatness in a different way.

I personally hope he fails in all attempts because I wanted him to at least threaten the NBA's historical hierarchy

suic
11-01-2016, 08:14 AM
IMO Any hate towards KD is just jelousy. Any team would take him. He was the best FA this summer. And he just chose the best team. It just happened that a 73 win team was able to afford him.

And warriors are no sure thing to win anything. Injuries can happen.

Just glad to witness something extraordinary. Not a GS fan.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2016, 11:42 AM
IMO Any hate towards KD is just jelousy. Any team would take him. He was the best FA this summer. And he just chose the best team. It just happened that a 73 win team was able to afford him.

And warriors are no sure thing to win anything. Injuries can happen.

Just glad to witness something extraordinary. Not a GS fan.

I don't hate Durant, he is very likeable. I lost a lot of respect for him, because of what projects to happen. He can obviously earn it back if things play out certain ways (I spelled those ways prior). But if GS continues to just pump out wins/chips, while Curry plays at an all time level, and Klay/Green make all NBA teams, any ring Durant wins with them does nothing for his legacy to me.

lol, please
11-01-2016, 01:59 PM
I don't hate Durant, he is very likeable. I lost a lot of respect for him, because of what projects to happen. He can obviously earn it back if things play out certain ways (I spelled those ways prior). But if GS continues to just pump out wins/chips, while Curry plays at an all time level, and Klay/Green make all NBA teams, any ring Durant wins with them does nothing for his legacy to me.

That's being pretty unfair to Durant.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2016, 02:33 PM
That's being pretty unfair to Durant.

no, it's not. You don't get legacy building credit as an all timer for hopping on an established super team that has proven they don't even need you to win it all.

Again, if a combination of Curry/Green/Klay regress, or get hurt, and Durant is clearly the #1 player on the team, and the biggest reason they are winning a ring, we can talk again. But I don't think it will play out that way.

Jeffy25
11-01-2016, 02:39 PM
I wonder if adding Durant will actually show how teams in the NBA need to be built....with talents spread.

They have three premitier players that want to touch the ball, and not much down low.

I just wonder if they take a step back this year and we are watching the Spurs in the Finals instead.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2016, 02:43 PM
I wonder if adding Durant will actually show how teams in the NBA need to be built....with talents spread.

They have three premitier players that want to touch the ball, and not much down low.

I just wonder if they take a step back this year and we are watching the Spurs in the Finals instead.

well that is the hope of most, if not all, non-GS fans. Why would anyone want this team to win? But, such is life when you are on top of the mountain. Lot's of people waiting for you to fall.

The worst thing that could happen to me is that everyone else plays for 2nd the next few years.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 03:15 PM
well that is the hope of most, if not all, non-GS fans. Why would anyone want this team to win? But, such is life when you are on top of the mountain. Lot's of people waiting for you to fall.

The worst thing that could happen to me is that everyone else plays for 2nd the next few years.

True, I would gladly lose the $200 I got down on them if it means they lose as well. It was a dumb bet because the odds are so with them winning but who are we kidding here?


That's being pretty unfair to Durant.
Its what he deserves. If the old adage is true, that players sacrifice for the betterment of the team then this is KD's sacrifice, he made sure of it when he took the cowards way out. Or it might be Curry's whos stock falls as the likelihood of him ever winning a FMVP or having a transcendent Finals is shot, I simply see no other team who comes close to the collection of talent we see today, I only hope they utterly choke/collapse under the weight of their own pussification, we'll see how this plays out tho.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 03:27 PM
IMO Any hate towards KD is just jelousy. Any team would take him. He was the best FA this summer. And he just chose the best team. It just happened that a 73 win team was able to afford him.

And warriors are no sure thing to win anything. Injuries can happen.

Just glad to witness something extraordinary. Not a GS fan.
Oh come now, ANY hate? So you're saying its impossible to hate his move as a fan of the NBA more than any 1 team? LOL, jealousy isn't the right word here. More like betrayal to the sanctity of competition from someone who I assumed was more of a competitor based on how he hypes himself up. The circumstances that came into play for such a defection only make him weaker, he doesn't even have to take a paycut to ride that bandwagon that he himself failed to take down despite plenty of talent to do so (had he simply resigned with that team the league would have more contenders and he would have been favored to win it all with them). Show me a single time in history that's happened because I can point to guys who could have taken the easy road but "didn't want it that easy". KD isn't at the stage where he should just forego his chances at ultimate glory, his team had a legit shot and had he himself actually produced the way hes capable of. He should have given it one more year but then his chances at joining GS would have taken a massive sacrifice on his part. As it is, hes getting everything he wants except respect.

You think I care if GS wins? They've already won and I was jealous then, now that KD went there, there is literally no reason to be jealous anymore. Hes taken the pressure off every team in the NBA IMO. ALL the pressure is in 1 town and its because of his unprecedented cowardice. The Easy Money slogan KD's adopted is soooo apt now.

D-Leethal
11-01-2016, 03:52 PM
Coming from the guy who forgets Bosh was injured that's a slightly depleted statement. Lakers had an arguable equal(at the least on a similar tier) to Bron in Kobe (IMO anyways), sported the leagues best front court to boot and a strong defensive backbone. They had a weak PG but EVERYONE swore up and down Fisher's clutchness wasn't part of the problem and that it wasn't a necessity for Kobe and the mighty Triangle. There were plenty of questions regarding Wade sharing the ball with such similar games/statures, his declining production/impact and injury ravaged history made it doubly important they start winning asap. They were thin outside the Big-3 on top of not knowing much about each other.

Its not even in the same stratosphere and staying in Cleveland was never a legitimate option if he wanted to win a title.

Chronz: Wade was washed up when Bron joined Heat because Wade started sucking years later during his run.
Chronz: Kobe was equal to Bron when Bron joined the Heat regardless of Kobe starting sucking years later during his run.

When Bron joined the Heat, Wade was still a complete monster and regarded as a top 3 player. Perception was that LeBron just formed the greatest superteam of all time. LeBron himself thought he would cakewalk to 7 rings. Wade hitting the skids a couple years into their run doesn't change the team LeBron schemed and it's perception against the competition at the time.

Miami had zero competition in their own conference and were expected to takedown LA with relative ease. GSW is expected to have at least one dogfight in their own conference and at least one dogfight in the Finals.

Now, maybe Miami's struggles smartened fans up to know it's not that easy to just form a superteam and win it all so perception of GSW is a little different. Durant is a puss regardless. He is just following James' lead tho.

suic
11-01-2016, 04:01 PM
IDK, I wouldn't call OKC a true contender. They were maybe a step ahead of Melo nuggets, CP3 clippers and so on. Teams that were always serious, but kinda step behind from that top level. One finals appearance from 4 years ago that they lost 4-1. Top level teams have been heat, spurs, now cleveland and GS. Mavs were a nice surprise.

Actually I'm hoping a reaction to this superteam. Maybe another superteam and somekind of historical battle between them. Or just a massive perfomance from someone (Mavs and Dirk). Like LeBron said it's good for nba because it raises the level so much. Wonder if he meant it. But yeah I just wanna see some insane intense games.

Superteams have been taken down before

Saddletramp
11-01-2016, 04:20 PM
Chronz: Wade was washed up when Bron joined Heat because Wade started sucking years later during his run.
Chronz: Kobe was equal to Bron when Bron joined the Heat regardless of Kobe starting sucking years later during his run.

When Bron joined the Heat, Wade was still a complete monster and regarded as a top 3 player. Perception was that LeBron just formed the greatest superteam of all time. LeBron himself thought he would cakewalk to 7 rings. Wade hitting the skids a couple years into their run doesn't change the team LeBron schemed and it's perception against the competition at the time.

Miami had zero competition in their own conference and were expected to takedown LA with relative ease. GSW is expected to have at least one dogfight in their own conference and at least one dogfight in the Finals.

Now, maybe Miami's struggles smartened fans up to know it's not that easy to just form a superteam and win it all so perception of GSW is a little different. Durant is a puss regardless. He is just following James' lead tho.

I don't know how many it needs to be explained how the two are miles apart so meh. Believe what you want to believe.

tredigs
11-01-2016, 04:22 PM
I wonder if adding Durant will actually show how teams in the NBA need to be built....with talents spread.

They have three premitier players that want to touch the ball, and not much down low.

I just wonder if they take a step back this year and we are watching the Spurs in the Finals instead.
You're speaking offensive-specific here? Durant is fantastic as a post-up scorer/playmaker - clearly no comparison between him and Barnes in that regard. So, by "not much down low" I presume you mean the difference in ~20 mpg from Bogut instead of ~20 mpg from Zaza? This with Zaza being a 7' footer in his own right and a better offensive rebounder than Bogut? Also, a great foul-shooter who renders "hack-A" against the Warriors with their starting lineup moot now.

I guess I'm not following where they took a step back there (the truth is that it is in high-post passing and screen setting along with the post-D), unless your contention is that they were already too weak down low offensively to be the best last year?...

Chronz
11-01-2016, 04:33 PM
Chronz: Wade was washed up when Bron joined Heat because Wade started sucking years later during his run.
Chronz: Kobe was equal to Bron when Bron joined the Heat regardless of Kobe starting sucking years later during his run.
Wade was in his prime but injury prone and on the descent when Bron joined Miami because it was evident BEFORE Bron ever showed up. More importantly we SAW how he deteriorated and totally vindicated earlier fears.
Kobe didn't start sucking until his Achilles went caput so that's not an adequate projection. Again, we have projections and we have hindsight BOTH are relevant (facts obviously mattering more), your one sided argument ignores that.


When Bron joined the Heat, Wade was still a complete monster and regarded as a top 3 player. Perception was that LeBron just formed the greatest superteam of all time. LeBron himself thought he would cakewalk to 7 rings. Wade hitting the skids a couple years into their run doesn't change the team LeBron schemed and it's perception against the competition at the time.

I've told you countless times, I don't care about what he says in a hype rally over an ACTUAL INTERVIEW. Hitting the skids a couple of years after? LOL, the dude had 1 year where he was arguably as good as he was before after that he was plagued by inconsistencies and injuries, he wasn't awful but not the player we all knew but he continued to decline thereafter, you know, because slashers tend to decline as they enter their 30's. Show me who you're in fear of completely deteriorating physically in GS? Could've swore they just broke the AT record in wins not too long ago.



Miami had zero competition in their own conference and were expected to takedown LA with relative ease. GSW is expected to have at least one dogfight in their own conference and at least one dogfight in the Finals.
I hope you're right, Ill gladly burn that money to see them fail but if they barely squeak out victories then I wouldn't know what to make of that until more information is available but I don't see what you see.


Now, maybe Miami's struggles smartened fans up to know it's not that easy to just form a superteam and win it all so perception of GSW is a little different.
Except that this is unprecedented and there is nothing on history to fall back on, there has never been such an accumulation of talent to this degree, made worse by the lack of multiple contenders. Its basically a 2 horse race IMO and even that final horse isn't that compelling considering they narrowly escaped with a win last time and the opposing team had a FAR greater addition on paper. Fans? Maybe, but the odds makers have done something they haven't done in I cant remember how long. Would you take the field over them?

Like I know you love focusing solely on projections but what makes you think I believe yours over mine? You do it all by the gut, which is fine but totally subjective and I get the sense that you wouldn't take my gut over yours. Just as I wouldn't trust your statistical take over mine so thats out the picture.

So what we're left with are outsiders perspectives and heres what I can gather at first glance, GM's, Coaches, Analysts etc.. all struggle to remember the last time a team was ODDS ON FAVORITE TO WIN IN THE ****ING PRESEASON. Vegas odds are fluid so things can change rapidly but since your argument relies solely on the least relevant of projections, its pretty easy to shoot down your claims.

Let me put this in perspective for you, the GSW have higher odds going into preseason than the 72 WIN BULLS did coming off that championship. Brons teams were considered around that MJ level but never to this degree and they have been "underdogs" by their standards throughout various moments in their playoff lives. You really see that ever happening with GS? To make matters worse, what wound up happening to those Heat teams? They lost Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem to injury, this was already a shallow team and they lost the only real peripheral pieces they had. LOL, Dampier and Mike Bibby were added late IIRC and they became the starters, that's how shallow they were, 2 guys on the verge of retirement were key contributors.



Durant is a puss regardless. He is just following James' lead tho.
James followed the lead of those before him and had FAR more reason to do so. What KD did is unlike anything we've ever seen and your flimsy projection based argument only strengthened my own. TRY HARDER

Chronz
11-01-2016, 04:55 PM
IDK, I wouldn't call OKC a true contender. They were maybe a step ahead of Melo nuggets, CP3 clippers and so on. Teams that were always serious, but kinda step behind from that top level. One finals appearance from 4 years ago that they lost 4-1. Top level teams have been heat, spurs, now cleveland and GS. Mavs were a nice surprise.
I disagree completely because you just named only teams that have won chips but we've seen those teams lose at different junctures so its hard to critique a vague stance. I'm trying to make sense of it but it does sound like you think there is only 1 true contender each year. Either way, you've said nothing to eliminate the FACT that OKC would have been favored to win it all regardless of how you define their odds. Considering you're not really giving me anything to work with here, Ill side with Vegas and my own projections over your vague criticism, like what do you mean by a nice surprise with regards to their hierarchy? The year Dallas was a nice surprise there were MANY more contenders than we see today, at least on paper. We'll see what the numbers bear out come playoffs.


Actually I'm hoping a reaction to this superteam. Maybe another superteam and somekind of historical battle between them.
Good luck finding the perfect storm of all that went into KD's defection, I don't know how I would want this to go down. On one hand I would love for there to be a team on par with GS talent wise (Cleveland is the only one that comes close IMO, with the Clips and Spurs thereafter) but is that really good for the league, wouldn't you want more than to just watch 2 teams? I guess we're different fans, personally Im going to enjoy watching the rest of the NBA rather than who ultimately wins and thats the first time I've ever come into a season thinking that way. The rest of the league is hoping one of Curry or KD get hurt and opens the window just like last year.


Or just a massive perfomance from someone (Mavs and Dirk).
It wasn't that massive and the talent disparity wasn't quite this massive. We already saw a superhuman feat when Bron went nova and gave a record breaking team the boot, that's not likely to happen but if he does it again, then we are gonna have to reopen the MJ debate. Not likely tho, I doubt even MJ would win here.


Like LeBron said it's good for nba because it raises the level so much. Wonder if he meant it. But yeah I just wanna see some insane intense games.

LeBron is sooo carefree this year I doubt he gives a **** but I'm not surprised he gave the classic PC response. I rarely take players at face value but if it cheers you up, I wont rain on your parade.


Superteams have been taken down before
And 8th seeds have made the Finals. That's of no solace when the NBA could've been sooo much more interesting with multiple contenders jockeying for glory. Now its basically hoping they choke, get hurt or some **** that isn't that viable to me.

Chronz
11-01-2016, 05:21 PM
Tre I KNOW you gamble, surely you're aware of some the historical point spreads some are projecting thus far. I'm never comfortable taking a huge spreads but would you feel comfortable taking a record breaking 25PT spread vs some of the dregs of the league? Thats the kind of talk some odds makers are putting out there.

I remember putting money when Bron first joined Miami and lost then but this is the first time I'm actually going to win less money than I'm risking with these kind of bets. I'm just happy I didn't go over board and take the prop bet of winning 72+

Chronz
11-01-2016, 05:26 PM
I honestly hope D-West is done, I hope Zaza declines immensely and I hope Iggy falls off a cliff, leaving only the venerable Livingston to supplant Curry as the starter when he himself suffers an Achilles tear. Then maybe the league has a chance.

Vee-Rex
11-01-2016, 05:39 PM
I honestly hope D-West is done, I hope Zaza declines immensely and I hope Iggy falls off a cliff, leaving only the venerable Livingston to supplant Curry as the starter when he himself suffers an Achilles tear. Then maybe the league has a chance.

If it makes you feel any better - looks like West is already done. He barely plays and when he does he plays like crap. Zaza isn't the Bogut replacement that was hoped for (he can't set the 'legal' screens that Bogut could), and Iggy himself looks to be slipping down that cliff.

It has only been 3 games, so maybe things will change.

lol, please
11-01-2016, 06:51 PM
I honestly hope D-West is done, I hope Zaza declines immensely and I hope Iggy falls off a cliff, leaving only the venerable Livingston to supplant Curry as the starter when he himself suffers an Achilles tear. Then maybe the league has a chance.

wow.

tredigs
11-01-2016, 07:43 PM
Tre I KNOW you gamble, surely you're aware of some the historical point spreads some are projecting thus far. I'm never comfortable taking a huge spreads but would you feel comfortable taking a record breaking 25PT spread vs some of the dregs of the league? Thats the kind of talk some odds makers are putting out there.

I remember putting money when Bron first joined Miami and lost then but this is the first time I'm actually going to win less money than I'm risking with these kind of bets. I'm just happy I didn't go over board and take the prop bet of winning 72+

Nah, I can't think of a team I'd lay 25+ on barring it being something like Brooklyn in game 6 of a West Coast road trip and being on the tail end of a b2b (we saw plenty of 20+ point spreads from the Heat through the years though). Whenever I do feel like betting the Dubs in a huge line I generally just go with them in the 1st half. No way I'm relying on the bench to hold that big of a lead. That said, I think there lines are already being adjusted to the mean, as bettors/bookies are getting sharp to the idea that they won't be firing on all cylinders consistently for at least a few months.

But that point is taken. Their Vegas odds are indeed wild. But I have a VERY clear memory of the perception of Miami when they teamed up, and it was one of despair for the rest of the league and the fans. The vast majority (of fans, GM's, talking heads, etc) thought the minimum for 'chips they'd take home was 3, and feared 5+. All things considered, that team **** the bed as per expectations.

suic
11-01-2016, 09:37 PM
I guess we're different fans, personally Im going to enjoy watching the rest of the NBA rather than who ultimately wins and thats the first time I've ever come into a season thinking that way.


Yeah, defenetly different. I'm just a occasional game watcher, not going to do too much analysing.
But for an regular fan, like most of the nba watchers are, we just don't care. Never has something like this happened and it will be exciting just for that. They are probably going to dominate, I just wanna see what other teams will do to counter it.

raiderposting
11-01-2016, 11:50 PM
Yes I think the warriors are happy with two top 3 players.....it hasn't been a week ffs.

nastynice
11-02-2016, 04:59 AM
Who said I only expect a single ring when KD has set himself up for the easiest road ever traveled for the foreseeable future? My only hope is that he fails but yes, time will tell what we make of his decision but TBH, I don't see him having the kind of legacy you crave.

I had some people trying to tell me that all this noise would be forgotten once he won but I don't think unprecedented cowardice is ever forgotten. I don't care how KD began FA, only how he ended it because how he arrived there is ENTIRELY subjective. Plenty have alluded to the Dubs wooing him all year and him reciprocating those feelings. I don't for one second believe he intended to return based on how hes defended his decision and the rumors circling his departure. Feel free to believe what you wish but to me, his true greatness is forfeit with such an unholy union. Unless certain scenarios present themselves, like injuries forcing KD into manning up and actually working up GOAT level sweat OR the Dubs are so damn dominant it speaks to his own greatness in a different way.

I personally hope he fails in all attempts because I wanted him to at least threaten the NBA's historical hierarchy

The legacy we have the potential to create is EXACTLY the type of legacy I crave. A WARRIORS legacy. I could give a damn if its a curry legacy, kd, klay, green, makes no diff to me. Makes no diff if Brandon Rush wins every FMVP, as long as its a warrior I'm good

KD came to a team that won 73 games, and has the reigning 2x mvp. I highly doubt personal legacy was above team legacy on his list. Does he care about personal legacy? Yes, of course. More than team legacy? His decision last summer tells us, clearly not.

nastynice
11-02-2016, 05:01 AM
That's being pretty unfair to Durant.

lmao, bro I been hearing so much about curry, kd, klay, and green, I completely forgot about iggy and livingston!! Only thing unfair up in this ***** is this ****in stacked *** warriors squad, lol!!

nastynice
11-02-2016, 05:09 AM
I honestly hope D-West is done, I hope Zaza declines immensely and I hope Iggy falls off a cliff, leaving only the venerable Livingston to supplant Curry as the starter when he himself suffers an Achilles tear. Then maybe the league has a chance.

still got kd, klay, and green.

Don't sleep on Ian Clark either. I can see that dude stepping up if the need arises. This whole KD thing makes people forget what type of talent we been grooming ourselves here...

nastynice
11-02-2016, 06:39 AM
So I just watched the dubs blazers highlights, lol, funny I just mentioned ian clark and turns out that fool kinda killed it tonight. Also, possibly funny, but did steph curry add another move to his arsenal? He's doing this kinda shot fake, dribble fake, shot. If so then that's DEFINITELY funny, cuz he's so ridiculous already, and the team is so damn stacked, and this defense has a bit of that swarming feeling already, and this season is looking to possibly be so unfair, and I ****in love it cuz I soaked in ALL the hate last year, I soaked it all in, and I loved it, and you all got the last laugh, and it was fun and congrats to the cavs fans first and the dubs haters second. But now I want the last laugh and wanna congrat by dub nation after this season, and the potential I see, haha, omg, if this teams legitimately gets locked in...holy ****

I prob need to curb my excitment, we all know who the reigning king is, but I'll say this. I am absolutely over the fact we lost Bogut and Ezeli. I feel like I see that hunger in this team. That real hunger. And mixing that talent with that hunger could possibly equal video game like playoff runs.

Let's see what happens. Either way, I'm sure we'll all enjoy the show. I'll be talkin **** the whole way :)

lol, please
11-02-2016, 02:11 PM
So I just watched the dubs blazers highlights, lol, funny I just mentioned ian clark and turns out that fool kinda killed it tonight. Also, possibly funny, but did steph curry add another move to his arsenal? He's doing this kinda shot fake, dribble fake, shot. If so then that's DEFINITELY funny, cuz he's so ridiculous already, and the team is so damn stacked, and this defense has a bit of that swarming feeling already, and this season is looking to possibly be so unfair, and I ****in love it cuz I soaked in ALL the hate last year, I soaked it all in, and I loved it, and you all got the last laugh, and it was fun and congrats to the cavs fans first and the dubs haters second. But now I want the last laugh and wanna congrat by dub nation after this season, and the potential I see, haha, omg, if this teams legitimately gets locked in...holy ****

I prob need to curb my excitment, we all know who the reigning king is, but I'll say this. I am absolutely over the fact we lost Bogut and Ezeli. I feel like I see that hunger in this team. That real hunger. And mixing that talent with that hunger could possibly equal video game like playoff runs.

Let's see what happens. Either way, I'm sure we'll all enjoy the show. I'll be talkin **** the whole way :)

I agree with everything in this post except the reigning kings part.

:clap: