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Stunner
10-15-2016, 11:26 PM
BREAKING: League sources tell @ZachLowe_NBA and me that Bucks and Bulls are in deep talks on a Michael Carter-Williams-for-Tony Snell trade.

https://twitter.com/espnsteinline/status/787492831942193152

Giannis94
10-15-2016, 11:40 PM
As a Bucks fan, Thank you Chicago.

effen5
10-15-2016, 11:40 PM
I'd trade Tony snell for a power bar at this point

Stunner
10-15-2016, 11:41 PM
As a Bucks fan, Thank you Chicago.

lol that's what Chicago is telling y'all

More-Than-Most
10-15-2016, 11:42 PM
As a Bucks fan, Thank you Chicago.

my exact thoughts when the sixers traded him while others were like omg he is roy and you guys are just trying to tank instead of getting a steal for mediocrity.

Giannis94
10-15-2016, 11:44 PM
What you guys don't understand is that MCW singlehandedly kills games, turns the ball over and takes possesions away from BAE (Giannis). This clears the way for BAE to get full time minutes with Delly.

effen5
10-15-2016, 11:44 PM
I'm trying to figure out how snell isn't in the dleague right now

Giannis94
10-15-2016, 11:45 PM
lol that's what Chicago is telling y'all

lol a Rondo and MCW tandem. what can go wrong?

effen5
10-15-2016, 11:45 PM
What you guys don't understand is that MCW singlehandedly kills games, turns the ball over and takes possesions away from BAE (Giannis). This clears the way for BAE to get full time minutes with Delly.

What you don't understand about snell is he brings you nothing. NOTHING

Stunner
10-15-2016, 11:49 PM
What you don't understand about snell is he brings you nothing. NOTHING

Nothing at all , MCW basically an upgraded version of Dwiniddie so I'll take that as my Backup PG . We know our issues with this team but at least we upgraded at back up for a guy who wasn't touching the rotation with Valentine and Zipser here now .


Bulls win this trade which isn't saying much

Raps18-19 Champ
10-16-2016, 12:00 AM
Chicago has no interest in 3 point shooting I guess.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 12:05 AM
Chicago has no interest in 3 point shooting I guess.

Was Tony Snell job and he wasn't doing it lol

DaBear
10-16-2016, 12:21 AM
Snell is garbage so I don't mind this trade

tredigs
10-16-2016, 12:22 AM
What the Bulls clearly need is a ball-dominant guard without range who hasn't shown the ability to stop guards at the NBA level from raining 3's over him at a unrepentant level. So this makes sense.

tredigs
10-16-2016, 12:24 AM
Rondo/MCW/Wade... seems sound, what could go wrong?

To be clear it IS still 1958, right?

HandsOnTheWheel
10-16-2016, 01:19 AM
Train wreck.

Sadds The Gr8
10-16-2016, 01:39 AM
Bulls takin it back to the 70s

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 01:49 AM
Bulls are averaging 109 PPG so far. Scoring isn't a problem, the "lack" of shooting is overblown.

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 01:55 AM
4th in FG% and 15th in 3FG%. The Bulls just need to cut down on turnovers and tighten up the defense. MCW will help defensively with his youth and length.

europagnpilgrim
10-16-2016, 02:25 AM
Bulls are averaging 109 PPG so far. Scoring isn't a problem, the "lack" of shooting is overblown.

Exactly, especially the 3pt ball which has always been a weapon since it has been in the game but just got blown out of proportion since the Warriors actually won the title with that being its bread and butter style, the game has been played since the 40's and finally a dominant jump shooting/3pt style team won a title after 7 decades of play, it is supremely over blown

BKLYNpigeon
10-16-2016, 02:29 AM
what are we discussing trades about scrubs?

KnicksorBust
10-16-2016, 07:04 AM
Bulls are averaging 109 PPG so far. Scoring isn't a problem, the "lack" of shooting is overblown.

Exactly, especially the 3pt ball which has always been a weapon since it has been in the game but just got blown out of proportion since the Warriors actually won the title with that being its bread and butter style, the game has been played since the 40's and finally a dominant jump shooting/3pt style team won a title after 7 decades of play, it is supremely over blown

Every champ from the last 6 seasons has been a great 3pt shooting team. You are grossly underestimating how valuable the 3pt shot is in today's game.

Clint Olbrock
10-16-2016, 07:27 AM
Rondo, Grant, Canaan, Dinwiddie and now MCW.. Why the heck does any team need 5 point guards? Especially when Wade, Butler and Valentine will all handle the ball some too..

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-16-2016, 08:01 AM
Both will be RFA's next summer.

warfelg
10-16-2016, 08:45 AM
Once upon a time we traded him for the Lakers Pick...and we were told it was a bad trade.

warfelg
10-16-2016, 08:45 AM
Rondo, Grant, Canaan, Dinwiddie and now MCW.. Why the heck does any team need 5 point guards? Especially when Wade, Butler and Valentine will all handle the ball some too..

That's 3 ex-Sixers from the Hinkie era...

Lol.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 09:27 AM
That's 3 ex-Sixers from the Hinkie era...

Lol.

Two

warfelg
10-16-2016, 09:35 AM
Two

They also have Justin Holiday. He might be pre-Hinkie, but if he was we were still terrible that year.

Never mind. Apparently he's not with them anymore.

Either way...2 ex-Sixers not names Okafor, Noel, Embiid on your team right now is a bad thing.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 09:51 AM
They also have Justin Holiday. He might be pre-Hinkie, but if he was we were still terrible that year.

Never mind. Apparently he's not with them anymore.

Either way...2 ex-Sixers not names Okafor, Noel, Embiid on your team right now is a bad thing.

Well for one Justin Holiday actually played ok for us last season for the short time he was here .


2nd we know what Cannan is so yea that's that , he's going to be floor spacer and as long as he's doing that in his limited play we're fine.


MCW is a more talented Spencer Dinwiddie who is on our team , he's here to be a backup not to start . He's going to be a rfa and hopefully he improves his game some and get over the hip injury from last year . We aren't expecting him to be a savior just contribute something more than Snell has which isn't hard .


Yes we have two ex sixers but at the end they're Nba players and unlike philly we're aren't asking these players to lead the team so it's not really a bad thing .

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 10:23 AM
Bulls are averaging 109 PPG so far. Scoring isn't a problem, the "lack" of shooting is overblown.

did you really just bring up preseason PPG to try to make a point?...lol.

I've never seen a preseason that teams took less seriously... teams are just running out a bunch of unknowns and barely playing their starters this year. i think the NBA should just have 2 or 3 preseason games because teams obviously aren't taking it seriously.

the other night Tyron Lue didn't even take most of the team with him, preseason is a joke these days. All these guys are afraid of getting injured, meanwhile guys used to play 16 preseason games and still play all 82 games and 40mpg.

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 10:29 AM
Rondo, Grant, Canaan, Dinwiddie and now MCW.. Why the heck does any team need 5 point guards? Especially when Wade, Butler and Valentine will all handle the ball some too..

Might mean more trades are in line. Or we're cutting Dinwiddie and moving either grant or Canaan to SG.

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 10:32 AM
They also have Justin Holiday. He might be pre-Hinkie, but if he was we were still terrible that year.

Never mind. Apparently he's not with them anymore.

Either way...2 ex-Sixers not names Okafor, Noel, Embiid on your team right now is a bad thing.

They were 2 of the better Sixers you've had in awhile though. You guys have sucked (no offense) but you've had guys that are nice pickups for other teams. The 3 you named, Canaan, MCW, Ish, & Covington to name a few.

tredigs
10-16-2016, 10:33 AM
Might mean more trades are in line. Or we're cutting Dinwiddie and moving either grant or Canaan to SG.

It is pretty crazy that the pull for the 2014 ROY is an underperforming/never-was Tony Snell. Bucks are doing all they can to fill the Middleton void.

warfelg
10-16-2016, 10:35 AM
They were 2 of the better Sixers you've had in awhile though. You guys have sucked (no offense) but you've had guys that are nice pickups for other teams. The 3 you named, Canaan, MCW, Ish, & Covington to name a few.

Canaan blows. So does MCW and Ish.

IndyRealist
10-16-2016, 10:44 AM
Snell was overrated the moment he was drafted. MCW is bad but he's not Tony Snell bad.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 10:45 AM
Might mean more trades are in line. Or we're cutting Dinwiddie and moving either grant or Canaan to SG.

I would say Grant is the odd man out based on play , might get sent down to the d league .

Stunner
10-16-2016, 10:46 AM
Snell-for-Carter-Williams agreed to in principle. Snell told of trade. Teams just need call w/ league office on MON, physicals to complete.


https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/787663830503550976

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 11:07 AM
I would say Grant is the odd man out based on play , might get sent down to the d league .

how does dleague work? can teams protect certain players or can a player sign with any team once he is sent to dleague?

Stunner
10-16-2016, 11:09 AM
how does dleague work? can teams protect certain players or can a player sign with any team once he is sent to dleague?

It's not the NFL practice squad if that's what you mean . You can't take a d league player if he's under an Nba teams contract .

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 11:15 AM
It's not the NFL practice squad if that's what you mean . You can't take a d league player if he's under an Nba teams contract .

so like the knicks who gave partial guarantees to Plumlee and Baker, another team cant take them if the knicks send them to d league?

Stunner
10-16-2016, 11:18 AM
so like the knicks who gave partial guarantees to Plumlee and Baker, another team cant take them if the knicks send them to d league?

it's an Nba contract they're under still so I'm assuming no

BullsFan_1
10-16-2016, 11:19 AM
Pretty much a lose/lose trade here. Congrats to both sides!

Raps18-19 Champ
10-16-2016, 11:22 AM
Was Tony Snell job and he wasn't doing it lol

Now you have a giy who plays much more minutes than Snell at a position where its mich more needed.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 11:37 AM
Now you have a giy who plays much more minutes than Snell at a position where its mich more needed.

lol


Tony Snell wasn't even going to play with us he got passed up basically every wing on the roster . He's widely inconsistent and lacks confidence unless it's a summer league game .

I saw an article saying that bucks should be glad that the kings rejected MCW for mclemore because outside of shooting he offers nothing on the court at all . Snell is worse than Mclemore



Backup PG was a weakness were we would be relying on Dinwiddie and Grant , MCW is better than both of those players. Also don't know how many mins you expect MCW to log in at best maybe 13-17 , I'll take that from him were he can thrive in a 2nd unit mostly consisted of shooters .


MCW will fit the more uptempo style of play here , yea he's gonna turnover prob but hey at least I know he will help in other areas on the floor were Snell was just here to be here .



Bucks lose cuz it's Snell but he can shoot but it's Snell and Bulls lose cuz of " the non shooting aspect " . But comparing players straight up MCW is better

Stunner
10-16-2016, 11:43 AM
A #Bucks source says that Micheal Carter Williams "is motivated to get his @NBA career back on track" in his potential trade to the #Bulls.

https://twitter.com/therealc_los/status/787679056192008193

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 11:50 AM
if MCW is only getting 13-17 mpg he wont be a happy guy... but then can you really have MCW AND Rondo on the court at the same time?

IDK, CHI is just building such an odd team. none of their pieces are anywhere near ideal. I dont think anyone would ever hand pick any two of their main guys to play together.

Burkey3472
10-16-2016, 11:54 AM
Dear Sam Hinkie,

Thank you for trading MCW when his value was at its peak.

from,
Sixers fans.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 11:54 AM
if MCW is only getting 13-17 mpg he wont be a happy guy... but then can you really have MCW AND Rondo on the court at the same time?

IDK, CHI is just building such an odd team. none of their pieces are anywhere near ideal. I dont think anyone would ever hand pick any two of their main guys to play together.

Does it matter if MCW is happy ? Lol he won't make much fuse with a leader like Wade in the locker room cuz he won't take bs . He was about to be the backup in mil behind Delly . MCW and rondo won't play together it doesn't make sense.

Giannis94
10-16-2016, 11:57 AM
A #Bucks source says that Micheal Carter Williams "is motivated to get his @NBA career back on track" in his potential trade to the #Bulls.

https://twitter.com/therealc_los/status/787679056192008193

Same narritve when he was sent to MKE. Enjoy the turnovers.

rhymeratic
10-16-2016, 11:58 AM
This trade is an indictment on a couple of things:

1. Jerian Grant isn't capable of being the primary backup to Rondo. As a Knick fan, I can say with confidence that his handle is beyond suspect. Homeboy can't dribble with his left hand is an instant trap in the corners. Factor in the fact he can't shoot from outside and yep you have a guy that is what he is and limited potential to get better anytime soon.

2. MCW is a bigger version of Rondo and sort of a hybrid between Rondo & Tyreke Evans. The Bulls are committing to their PGs ability to get to the basket and orchestrate the offense. Let their wings do the shooting on kickouts.

3. Tony Snell will have more upside to the Bucks than he would to the Bulls. On the Bulls he was caught in a numbers game in terms of playing time and what they needed. On the Bucks he can fulfill his potential as a 3 & D type player in a rotation.


It's not a bad trade, I think it's fair. I don't think MCW will ever develop an outside shot. Jason Kidd tried and failed to develop him. Rondo was successful in becoming more reliable as well as Wade. Maybe between those two and Butler, they can help MCW maximize his strengths to be a consistent asset on the court.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 12:02 PM
Same narritve when he was sent to MKE. Enjoy the turnovers.

Lol we get it you hate him but looks like you're getting your hopes up . Your FO is throwing poop at the wall trying to find a replacement to help try and fill the void for Middleton somewhat . My friend Snell is far from that and you will soon find out

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 12:03 PM
Does it matter if MCW is happy ? Lol he won't make much fuse with a leader like Wade in the locker room cuz he won't take bs . He was about to be the backup in mil behind Delly . MCW and rondo won't play together it doesn't make sense.

i mean you want your players to be happy yes...lol. but i guess if its just a 1 season rental it's not a bad trade for CHI, or for MIL either.

he was probably going to back up Delly but he would have played alongside him too at times.

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 12:04 PM
im surprised CHI didnt give Grant much of a chance, they supposedly really liked him before the draft and that was supposed to be a big piece for them in the Rose trade.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 12:07 PM
im surprised CHI didnt give Grant much of a chance, they supposedly really liked him before the draft and that was supposed to be a big piece for them in the Rose trade.

He didn't get a chance tho , he's been outplayed by Spencer Dinwiddie

Stunner
10-16-2016, 12:11 PM
i mean you want your players to be happy yes...lol. but i guess if its just a 1 season rental it's not a bad trade for CHI, or for MIL either.

he was probably going to back up Delly but he would have played alongside him too at times.

But still that doesn't equal 20 plus mins on the court for him . And not to mention players like Vaughn , Brogdon and even Beasley will cut into MCW mins for the simple fact they space the floor better . Oh yea Jason Terry gonna get mins lol

MCW was gonna get 13-17 in the bucks same with the Bulls

nycericanguy
10-16-2016, 12:19 PM
But still that doesn't equal 20 plus mins on the court for him . And not to mention players like Vaughn , Brogdon and even Beasley will cut into MCW mins for the simple fact they space the floor better . Oh yea Jason Terry gonna get mins lol

MCW was gonna get 13-17 in the bucks same with the Bulls

backup up Delly for 15-18mpg and maybe another 5-10 at SG. he wouldve gotten minutes in MIL. he played 31mpg last year, they werent gonna cut his min in half because of Delly.

effen5
10-16-2016, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't put too much stock into this trade guys.

I'm honestly surprised we got ANYTHING for Snell. He might have been one of the worst players in the league.

Now if we can get rid of Niko.

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 12:22 PM
It is pretty crazy that the pull for the 2014 ROY is an underperforming/never-was Tony Snell. Bucks are doing all they can to fill the Middleton void.

Yea very crazy. Smell wasn't even going to get clock for us and now we have our backup PG, which was probably our weakest bench position.

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 12:25 PM
Fred is big on having multiple playmakers on the floor this year at all times. I think we're getting close to having that.

Stunner
10-16-2016, 12:25 PM
backup up Delly for 15-18mpg and maybe another 5-10 at SG. he wouldve gotten minutes in MIL. he played 31mpg last year, they werent gonna cut his min in half because of Delly.

If you say so lol that's not the narrative coming out of mil . Yea he got 31 mins LAST year and see were that got the team that had hardly any floor spacers . That's irrelevant to this year , he wasn't seeing 30 mins this upcoming season .


MCW being happy in Chicago is the least of my worries , your feelings and preference go out the window when you get traded to a team where you have start over . In the final year of his contract he's going to be on his best behavior and try to preform the best he can to get another contract

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 12:26 PM
Canaan blows. So does MCW and Ish.

They were all top players on your team though. Canaan and Ish last year and MCW a couple years ago. Canaan had 25-5-4 last night. Put them in the positions they are now as backups and they will do good. Canaan is a perfect spark plug player.

Giannis94
10-16-2016, 12:28 PM
Lol we get it you hate him but looks like you're getting your hopes up . Your FO is throwing poop at the wall trying to find a replacement to help try and fill the void for Middleton somewhat . My friend Snell is far from that and you will soon find out

While I agree with the comment about the FO its not on John Hammond. Its 100% on Herb Kohl and JKidd (who I also hate. See following).

The reason the MCW trade was made was because they were only planning on maxing Knight or Middleton and did not want to use 2 max's, thus the reason for the trade. Fair enough. The trade really ****ed things up because Knight played dfefense and distributed the ball effectively and was more of a safer option to have- although he didn't really score. Jkidd also loved MCW and essentially chose him from what I heard. Could of traded Knight for other pieces/players but Jkidd loved him. Again- out of Hammonds hands.

The reason we tanked and got Jabari was because of injuries. That moves that season (Zaza, Gooden, et al) was made to contend for the 8th seed. Again- this was a product of Herbie. If you want to go back even further the Salmons, Ilyasova and a few other bad extensions were no dobut coming from Herbie.

So do I hate MCW? I hate how he turns the ball over and that Jkidd is the reason we got him, and that Jkidd constantly refused to name Giannis as the PG over him after Giannis excelled last year. I hate his shot selection and how he throws the ball away with reckless disregard for his teammates.

Keep in mind Hammond is largely responsible for drafting Giannis and acquiring Middleton.

Who do I hate? I hate that John Hammond isn't able to do his job as there is always someone influencig his decisions. Thank god we got Giannis and Giannis ultimately helped us secure the new arena. This situation is kind of like our current government: corrupt and a walking relaity TV Show.

I do think that Delly and Mirza are solid acquisitions given market rate.

GodsSon
10-16-2016, 03:32 PM
Between Wade, Rondo and MCW, do the Bulls have the worst shooting guard rotation of all time?

R!kSm!tz
10-16-2016, 03:48 PM
Between Wade, Rondo and MCW, do the Bulls have the worst shooting guard rotation of all time?

Not with the way their shooting in the preseason. Either way I believe their lack of shooting is being overblown. They have multiple guys that can knock down 3s.

IndyRealist
10-16-2016, 03:56 PM
how does dleague work? can teams protect certain players or can a player sign with any team once he is sent to dleague?

There are two types of D-League players, those sent down from an NBA team, and those unsigned with an NBA team. The ones with NBA contracts belong to that team, count against the roster and payroll of the NBA team, and can be sent down or called up multiple times a season (I think 3). The ones without NBA contracts have D-League contracts for about $50,000. They can sign a contract with any NBA team, regardless of what team is affiliated with their D-League team. Once they sign an NBA deal, their D-League contract is void.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-16-2016, 04:16 PM
Its just a change of scenery trade. Snell is a better 3 point shooter. Both okay defenders. Bucks needed shooters and to fill the void of Middleton done possibly for entire season now if not back in 6 months.

Kyben36
10-16-2016, 05:17 PM
i understand that carter williams is not great, but as a backup, he is a very solid player. and we traded him for a guy, who did not deserve to be on the floor.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-16-2016, 05:39 PM
While I agree with the comment about the FO its not on John Hammond. Its 100% on Herb Kohl and JKidd (who I also hate. See following).

The reason the MCW trade was made was because they were only planning on maxing Knight or Middleton and did not want to use 2 max's, thus the reason for the trade. Fair enough. The trade really ****ed things up because Knight played dfefense and distributed the ball effectively and was more of a safer option to have- although he didn't really score. Jkidd also loved MCW and essentially chose him from what I heard. Could of traded Knight for other pieces/players but Jkidd loved him. Again- out of Hammonds hands.

The reason we tanked and got Jabari was because of injuries. That moves that season (Zaza, Gooden, et al) was made to contend for the 8th seed. Again- this was a product of Herbie. If you want to go back even further the Salmons, Ilyasova and a few other bad extensions were no dobut coming from Herbie.

So do I hate MCW? I hate how he turns the ball over and that Jkidd is the reason we got him, and that Jkidd constantly refused to name Giannis as the PG over him after Giannis excelled last year. I hate his shot selection and how he throws the ball away with reckless disregard for his teammates.

Keep in mind Hammond is largely responsible for drafting Giannis and acquiring Middleton.

Who do I hate? I hate that John Hammond isn't able to do his job as there is always someone influencig his decisions. Thank god we got Giannis and Giannis ultimately helped us secure the new arena. This situation is kind of like our current government: corrupt and a walking relaity TV Show.

I do think that Delly and Mirza are solid acquisitions given market rate.

Kidd wanted Vaughn while Hammond wanted Portis. Bucks drafted Vaughn. Hammond did hit a home run on Giannis and possibly Maker. Parker was a given obvious choice at #2. But only thing you could say Hammond messed up on in the draft was Joe Alexander. Even though he was just hired a month or so before draft. Also the owner's cronies wanted high flying dunkers.

So probably they had a hand in the selection of Joe Alexander as well. Personally if I was GM I would of left out 76ers in the Suns trade and took Ennis and Plumlee and Lakers pick. All in all Bucks got rid of a horrible three point shooter for a okay shooter. 12 guys on Bucks can drain three's out of 15 players. Not to shabby. Only guys wont be shooting them is Moose and Henson and Plumlee.

beasted86
10-16-2016, 06:04 PM
What you don't understand about snell is he brings you nothing. NOTHING

I gotta hand it to you for being regularly objective in opinion about your team's players, and management.

First one I've seen that assesses Snell for the scrub he is. Remember I think it was last year how people were hyped following summer league games like he was gonna be good or something. He's so below average at basically everything except the occasional scrappy defense play or wide open 3.

mavwar53
10-16-2016, 07:43 PM
Bulls may have got the "better player" but the chemistry and spacing of that team is going to be hilariously bad.

kobe4thewinbang
10-16-2016, 10:34 PM
Wow, how the mighty have fallen. MCW who was rookie of the year, almost a Laker, then moved to his awful Bucks team and hit some injury trouble, and praised by Coach Kidd, now traded for Tony freaking Snell? I guess it's better than being on the Bucks, but now the Bulls have two Rondos (can't shoot, good at passing).

Scoots
10-16-2016, 11:06 PM
Once upon a time we traded him for the Lakers Pick...and we were told it was a bad trade.

Some people were dumb enough to think MCW was good. A lot of those people were Sixers fans to be fair :)

IndyRealist
10-16-2016, 11:25 PM
Some people were dumb enough to think MCW was good. A lot of those people were Sixers fans to be fair :)

That's what happens when a team doesn't care about winning and force feeds someone stats. To this day people still bring up Tyreke Evans' 20/5/5 rookie season like that means something.

kobe4thewinbang
10-17-2016, 02:04 AM
That's what happens when a team doesn't care about winning and force feeds someone stats. To this day people still bring up Tyreke Evans' 20/5/5 rookie season like that means something.MCW > Tyreke Evans. MCW showed up in that big game against the Warriors. I think he just needs to be on an elite team or on a decent team for starters. Bucks look like they're getting wise, but we'll see. Bulls, I don't know.

More-Than-Most
10-17-2016, 03:12 AM
MCW for Snell... Just got 5 pages and 75 posts.... MCW for Snell.... Really think about this... :pity:

Scoots
10-17-2016, 07:08 AM
That's what happens when a team doesn't care about winning and force feeds someone stats. To this day people still bring up Tyreke Evans' 20/5/5 rookie season like that means something.

It did mean that Steph Curry finished 2nd in ROY voting :)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Stephen+Curry&player_id1_select=Stephen+Curry&player_id1=curryst01&y1=2010&hint=Tyreke+Evans&player_id2_select=Tyreke+Evans&y2=2010&player_id2=evansty01

nycericanguy
10-17-2016, 09:05 AM
There are two types of D-League players, those sent down from an NBA team, and those unsigned with an NBA team. The ones with NBA contracts belong to that team, count against the roster and payroll of the NBA team, and can be sent down or called up multiple times a season (I think 3). The ones without NBA contracts have D-League contracts for about $50,000. They can sign a contract with any NBA team, regardless of what team is affiliated with their D-League team. Once they sign an NBA deal, their D-League contract is void.

cool thanks. so basically if you have 15 players on a roster in preseason you cant send down a 16th and protect him right? because he counts against the roster.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-17-2016, 09:07 AM
MCW is a turnover machine. Check his game logs through his entire career. He's on a Lin sanity level for turnovers. He's decent on defense and rebounding. But he's making up for all the mistakes on the offense end. Guy is on his third team on rookie contract.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-17-2016, 09:09 AM
cool thanks. so basically if you have 15 players on a roster in preseason you cant send down a 16th and protect him right? because he counts against the roster.

Correct. Other then if a player is injured for season and the team applied for the extra roster spot.

Vee-Rex
10-17-2016, 09:15 AM
Snell sucks.

Delly runs the PnR really well, especially with a big that can dive and get alley oops. He's gonna build a solid rapport with one of Milwaukee's bigs. His defense may be a tiny bit overrated but he is definitely a decent defender.

His weakness is the inability to create his own offense. He can score off the PnR but lacks iso-scoring, which will become apparent and frustrating when playing against tough defenses.

He's a terrific 3-point shooter. The only issue with that is he can't create his own shot and had a super slow release, so he'll need someone to get him wide open looks usually.

I think he's a perfect backup caliber point guard but could be a solid starter if playing with the right personnel. Lebron was able to get him great looks... let's see if Giannis can do similarly.

warfelg
10-17-2016, 09:27 AM
Some people were dumb enough to think MCW was good. A lot of those people were Sixers fans to be fair :)

What cracks me up is look at people saying when a guy was on the Sixers "Well he sucks, he's a DL player, he doesn't belong in the NBA, they aren't trying". Same guy gets on their team and its "well miscast in Philly, he's not that bad, he does this one thing really well, he can turn it around."

Take Canaan for example. Now someone is saying he's good in a role. He's terrible at defense, doesn't pass, and is simply a 3 point chucker at a below NBA level 3 point shooting rate.

R!kSm!tz
10-17-2016, 09:59 AM
What cracks me up is look at people saying when a guy was on the Sixers "Well he sucks, he's a DL player, he doesn't belong in the NBA, they aren't trying". Same guy gets on their team and its "well miscast in Philly, he's not that bad, he does this one thing really well, he can turn it around."

Take Canaan for example. Now someone is saying he's good in a role. He's terrible at defense, doesn't pass, and is simply a 3 point chucker at a below NBA level 3 point shooting rate.

Quote me saying Canaan or MCW we're bad players. Canaan is a spark plug player and MCW can do a lot of different things off the court. If they don't produce they won't get playing time, simple as that but from what I've seen so far Canaan has been really good for us.

warfelg
10-17-2016, 10:28 AM
Quote me saying Canaan or MCW we're bad players. Canaan is a spark plug player and MCW can do a lot of different things off the court. If they don't produce they won't get playing time, simple as that but from what I've seen so far Canaan has been really good for us.

Way to put yourself on a limb with that first statement since you joined a month ago...

IndyRealist
10-17-2016, 12:24 PM
MCW > Tyreke Evans. MCW showed up in that big game against the Warriors. I think he just needs to be on an elite team or on a decent team for starters. Bucks look like they're getting wise, but we'll see. Bulls, I don't know.

Evans turned out to be a pretty solid player. MCW has not, yet. The hype on both was way too high.

Giannis94
10-17-2016, 01:24 PM
Kidd wanted Vaughn while Hammond wanted Portis. Bucks drafted Vaughn. Hammond did hit a home run on Giannis and possibly Maker. Parker was a given obvious choice at #2. But only thing you could say Hammond messed up on in the draft was Joe Alexander. Even though he was just hired a month or so before draft. Also the owner's cronies wanted high flying dunkers.

So probably they had a hand in the selection of Joe Alexander as well. Personally if I was GM I would of left out 76ers in the Suns trade and took Ennis and Plumlee and Lakers pick. All in all Bucks got rid of a horrible three point shooter for a okay shooter. 12 guys on Bucks can drain three's out of 15 players. Not to shabby. Only guys wont be shooting them is Moose and Henson and Plumlee.

Current owners and head coach take after the person they supoort and back- Hillary Clinton, by continually trying to undermine the GM. God I would love to see whats on their server and how many emails/deleted files they have.

JAZZNC
10-17-2016, 01:34 PM
MCW for Snell... Just got 5 pages and 75 posts.... MCW for Snell.... Really think about this... :pity:

I was literally about to post the same thing! Pretty hilarious that it has more posts than the thread about Melo or any number of threads over the offseason.

TheDish87
10-17-2016, 01:57 PM
the thread about Melo is stupid. Also not much else story wise going on right now.

effen5
10-17-2016, 02:26 PM
I gotta hand it to you for being regularly objective in opinion about your team's players, and management.

First one I've seen that assesses Snell for the scrub he is. Remember I think it was last year how people were hyped following summer league games like he was gonna be good or something. He's so below average at basically everything except the occasional scrappy defense play or wide open 3.

I hated Snell for a while. There was at one time where my entire fan base criticized Thibs for not playing snell more minutes. If anything it was Thibs who knew Snell was a scrub before anyone.

Stunner
10-17-2016, 03:40 PM
So the Bucks, in essence, gave up Brandon Knight for Tony Snell. And you wonder why the Bucks are the Bucks.

https://twitter.com/gerywoelfel/status/788091339716067328

Hawkeye15
10-17-2016, 03:54 PM
you know it's preseason when MCW, and Tony Snell get 6 pages in a thread

YAALREADYKNO
10-17-2016, 04:07 PM
Don't they have enough guys who can't shoot?

R!kSm!tz
10-17-2016, 04:39 PM
The Bulls have enough shooters.

Clint Olbrock
10-17-2016, 04:47 PM
The Bulls have enough shooters.

Dougie Buckets and Mirotic is far from "enough".

Stunner
10-17-2016, 05:05 PM
Dougie Buckets and Mirotic is far from "enough".

Valentine , Canaan , Zipser , Butler in the past has shown he can hit every odd year at 37 and 38% and is a good corner 3 shooter . Wade said he's going to take more this year to have more confidence in it . Remains to be seen with him with a bigger sample dose but I'll just be happy if he's a 34% shooter . So far in pre season and dating back to last years playoffs he's been hitting them. Portis can also stretch the floor from 3 somewhat tho it's not highly efficient . With rondo hopefully he can replicate last years 3 point shooting .

Stunner
10-17-2016, 06:20 PM
Disrespectful , not asking for it to be retired but it's too soon to be letting somebody go out after you traded rather you agree or not a Chicago figure . Could have waited a year or two .

Confirmed with the Bulls that Michael Carter-Williams will wear No. 1

Clint Olbrock
10-17-2016, 06:28 PM
Valentine , Canaan , Zipser , Butler in the past has shown he can hit every odd year at 37 and 38% and is a good corner 3 shooter . Wade said he's going to take more this year to have more confidence in it . Remains to be seen with him with a bigger sample dose but I'll just be happy if he's a 34% shooter . So far in pre season and dating back to last years playoffs he's been hitting them. Portis can also stretch the floor from 3 somewhat tho it's not highly efficient . With rondo hopefully he can replicate last years 3 point shooting .

Valentine could hit college 3's, so far in the preseason he is 0-2, I can't get his summer league stats to pull up so no comment there.

Canaan is shooting 36% in preseason, a small sample but very streaky through 5 games. It's right at his career average, it's solid. He's on the short side though, as far as who he can play with.

Zip showed at times overseas he can hit 3's but again very streaky, lots of up and down. He's shooting 29% in preseason in a very small sample size.

Butler is wildy too inconsistent for me to give any credit to that. He's just as inconsistent in the corners year to year.

Wade is hitting 55% of his 3's which is darn good, right above his playoff average from last season but both are very small sample sizes, if he can keep it up I'll buy it but he is a 28% 3 point shooter for his career and at times has seemed scared to take the shot.

Portis is shooting 14% on 3's in the preseason and his 31% on not even 1 per game last season, I wouldn't really bank on that at all unless you have some other information to back it up.. Like DV I can't access his summer league stats.

Rondo had a good season from deep last season, no doubt. He's even backing up with 50% on 3's in a small sample this preseason. But Like Wade, until he does it on a more consistent basis, I can't really buy it from a 29% career 3 point shooter.

I stick by what I said that McBuckets and Mirotic are the only shooter that the Bulls have, I'm okay with adding Canaan as well. Both McBuckets and Mirotic had down years themselves last season though.

Point being, the Bulls DO NOT have "enough" shooters.. They have a bunch of unproven and inconsistent guys from deep.

Stunner
10-17-2016, 06:33 PM
I didn't say we did have enough but we have a few capable of hitting that shot , they're not completely deprived . Snell wasn't in the rotation in Chicago so him being able to hit a jumper is irrelevant to me .

Raps18-19 Champ
10-17-2016, 08:20 PM
lol


Tony Snell wasn't even going to play with us he got passed up basically every wing on the roster . He's widely inconsistent and lacks confidence unless it's a summer league game .

I saw an article saying that bucks should be glad that the kings rejected MCW for mclemore because outside of shooting he offers nothing on the court at all . Snell is worse than Mclemore



Backup PG was a weakness were we would be relying on Dinwiddie and Grant , MCW is better than both of those players. Also don't know how many mins you expect MCW to log in at best maybe 13-17 , I'll take that from him were he can thrive in a 2nd unit mostly consisted of shooters .


MCW will fit the more uptempo style of play here , yea he's gonna turnover prob but hey at least I know he will help in other areas on the floor were Snell was just here to be here .



Bucks lose cuz it's Snell but he can shoot but it's Snell and Bulls lose cuz of " the non shooting aspect " . But comparing players straight up MCW is better

So basically this changes nothing I said. Good job.

mightybosstone
10-17-2016, 11:09 PM
Chicago is determined to acquire every single ball-dominant guard incapable of shooting 3s in the entire league. They're getting dangerously close...

KG2TB
10-17-2016, 11:49 PM
The Bulls strength certainly won't be 3 pt shooting, but they have a decent amount of options. Doug, Valentine, Canaan, Niko, are all good 3 pt shooters. What the Bulls currently have, which they haven't had in I can't remember how long, are a number of different ball handlers. The Bulls haven't had shooters in a long time....but they also lacked ball handlers and play makers. Between Rondo, Wade, Jimmy, MCW, Valentine, and to a lesser extent, Grant, and Dinwiddie, the Bulls in theory should get better shots than in the past and will be harder to defend because of the added play makers. In the past, it was pretty much D Rose and that's about it.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-18-2016, 07:45 AM
So the Bucks, in essence, gave up Brandon Knight for Tony Snell. And you wonder why the Bucks are the Bucks.

https://twitter.com/gerywoelfel/status/788091339716067328

Its actually Jennings for Knight, Middleton. Then Knight for MCW, Plumlee, Ennis. Now after all the trades its Middleton, Plumlee, Snell, Beasley. All them guys for Jennings isn't to shabby. All in all if we didn't steal Middleton then we lost all the trades in the long run. It all comes down to Middleton. He's the core piece of our big 3 yet injured. Could say though if we had Knight we wouldn't of had higher draft picks. Even though Vaughn hasn't shown much. Also Maker is a unknown yet. Bucks still could use one more big trade for another wing so Snell becomes a back up. Evans needs to get healthy cause Pelicans did have interests in Moose. Most likely it be Moose for Evans and Ajinca. Maybe throw Vaughn in if we give up on him. Since we have a max roster. Unless Jet or Novak is waived.

Scoots
10-18-2016, 07:49 AM
How do we define a "good" 3 point shooter now? The Mendoza line is 33% so anything below that is "poor" and anything between 33% and 40% is just "acceptable". You've got to be above 40% to be "good" and above 45% to be "great". Anything below "good" and you don't command the defense really get up on you.

7 of the Bulls top 10 3 point shooters from last year are no longer on the team, they kept #3, #6, and #10 who shot 42%, 40%, and 31% last year ... that's 1 "good" 3 point shooter.

The Bulls added Wade who ranks next-to-last in front of only Charles Barkley for 3-PT percentage among players with at least a thousand attempts in their careers at a bad %28.4 ... Rose by comparison is at %30.2. So Wade is WORSE than Rose at that particular skill.

I love Valentine, but we don't know how his shot will translate, and IIRC he has a fairly slow motion which may cause issues with consistency.

Last year the Bulls shot the 3 top 5 in the NBA for frequency. The rest of the NBA would be thrilled if the Bulls kept shooting 3s at the same frequency this year so you can expect them to be baited into it because odds are they will fall short of the Mendoza line for efficiency.

warfelg
10-18-2016, 08:01 AM
How do we define a "good" 3 point shooter now? The Mendoza line is 33% so anything below that is "poor" and anything between 33% and 40% is just "acceptable". You've got to be above 40% to be "good" and above 45% to be "great". Anything below "good" and you don't command the defense really get up on you.

7 of the Bulls top 10 3 point shooters from last year are no longer on the team, they kept #3, #6, and #10 who shot 42%, 40%, and 31% last year ... that's 1 "good" 3 point shooter.

The Bulls added Wade who ranks next-to-last in front of only Charles Barkley for 3-PT percentage among players with at least a thousand attempts in their careers at a bad %28.4 ... Rose by comparison is at %30.2. So Wade is WORSE than Rose at that particular skill.

I love Valentine, but we don't know how his shot will translate, and IIRC he has a fairly slow motion which may cause issues with consistency.

Last year the Bulls shot the 3 top 5 in the NBA for frequency. The rest of the NBA would be thrilled if the Bulls kept shooting 3s at the same frequency this year so you can expect them to be baited into it because odds are they will fall short of the Mendoza line for efficiency.

Don't worry. 36% 3-point shooter Isaiah Canaan will save them! I mean he can't do anything else.

Canaan is such a god 3-point shooter that Carl Landry and Christian Wood were better!! Actually over his 2 years with us, Canaan was our 6th best 3-point shooter, and we were a piss poor 3-point team.

I'm sorry, I cant stop laughing at all these "Canaan and MCW aren't bad" posts. Canaan gives you an offensive spark 1 out of every 5 games, and MCW is just terrible.

I honestly think MCW's rookie year ruined him beyond repair. He was the guy with us, and he never learned to protect the ball and get it out to other guys.

IndyRealist
10-18-2016, 08:56 AM
How do we define a "good" 3 point shooter now? The Mendoza line is 33% so anything below that is "poor" and anything between 33% and 40% is just "acceptable". You've got to be above 40% to be "good" and above 45% to be "great". Anything below "good" and you don't command the defense really get up on you.

7 of the Bulls top 10 3 point shooters from last year are no longer on the team, they kept #3, #6, and #10 who shot 42%, 40%, and 31% last year ... that's 1 "good" 3 point shooter.

The Bulls added Wade who ranks next-to-last in front of only Charles Barkley for 3-PT percentage among players with at least a thousand attempts in their careers at a bad %28.4 ... Rose by comparison is at %30.2. So Wade is WORSE than Rose at that particular skill.

I love Valentine, but we don't know how his shot will translate, and IIRC he has a fairly slow motion which may cause issues with consistency.

Last year the Bulls shot the 3 top 5 in the NBA for frequency. The rest of the NBA would be thrilled if the Bulls kept shooting 3s at the same frequency this year so you can expect them to be baited into it because odds are they will fall short of the Mendoza line for efficiency.

The problem is shots inside the arc, not at the rim, are like 44% FG, or 0.88 ppp. So even a 30% 3pt shooter beats that at 0.90 ppp. So 30% has really become the measure. That's why you see so many 32% guys launching 3s.

KnickNyKnick
10-18-2016, 09:05 AM
the bulls will be a solid team. People under estimate Dwades leadership.

warfelg
10-18-2016, 09:09 AM
The problem is shots inside the arc, not at the rim, are like 44% FG, or 0.88 ppp. So even a 30% 3pt shooter beats that at 0.90 ppp. So 30% has really become the measure. That's why you see so many 32% guys launching 3s.

On one hand I agree. On the other hand we need many more numbers.

Catch and shoot. ISO. Defender distance. Time on clock. Etc.

What if a guy is very good at catch and shoot with no defender within 6 feet, but bad in every other category, to the point that overall he's a 32% shooter? Is he still technically a good shooter?

Stunner
10-18-2016, 09:29 AM
▼A couple of fast facts about Tony Snell
Snell has the lowest career Player Efficiency Rating (8.2) in Bullsí history, with a minimum of 100 games played (Snell played in 213 games as a Bull). http://bkref.com/tiny/WGUzh
Snellís PER of 8.2 for the last three seasons is the worst in the NBA of the 152 players to play at least 200 games during that time. http://bkref.com/tiny/Xy1Om

IndyRealist
10-18-2016, 10:26 AM
On one hand I agree. On the other hand we need many more numbers.

Catch and shoot. ISO. Defender distance. Time on clock. Etc.

What if a guy is very good at catch and shoot with no defender within 6 feet, but bad in every other category, to the point that overall he's a 32% shooter? Is he still technically a good shooter?
If he is singularly good at catch and shoot with no defender near him, and horrible at anything else, then he shouldn't be taking those other shots often and his coaches and teammates should be putting him in a position to succeed. If he is taking a bunch of contested 3s off the curl and he is horrible at that, it's a failure of the coach and the system.

Economics generally assumes everyone wants to win, and will work optimally to maximize their chances. If they are using a player suboptimally by making him take shots he is not good at, then he is what he is.

eDush
10-18-2016, 10:35 AM
What you guys don't understand is that MCW singlehandedly kills games, turns the ball over and takes possesions away from BAE (Giannis). This clears the way for BAE to get full time minutes with Delly.

What you don't understand about snell is he brings you nothing. NOTHINGShell would be more useful to the Bucks where a change in scenery might be all he needs now that he is under less pressure from the CHI brass and media pressure that all players face there whereas this will be MCW 3rd team after 2 failures and considering how Noah didn't like the coach from reading between the lines, he will just be a bench warmer and nothing else as they don't even need another guard whatsoever.

The Bucks wins this transaction easily and I have no vested interest for either team.

mightybosstone
10-18-2016, 01:45 PM
the bulls will be a solid team. People under estimate Dwades leadership.

It depends on how you define "solid." If you're just expecting a team to sneak into the playoffs as a 6-8 seed with 40-45 wins, then OK. I can buy that. But I wouldn't expect anything more, and I certainly would anticipate a playoff run. Wade's "leadership" will only get a team so far, and he's about four years past his prime at this point.

MassoDio
10-18-2016, 01:55 PM
Snell would be more useful to the Bucks where a change in scenery might be all he needs

Complete unknown. Might is the only word in there with any validity.


he is under less pressure from the CHI brass and media pressure that all players face

If he isn't good under pressure, at least to some degree, he won't ever be a good player. Besides that, he wasn't under much pressure to begin with. He didn't play enough for that. When was the last time you saw a Tony Snell interview? Exactly.


this will be MCW 3rd team after 2 failures

If you are going to use "change of scenery" as a reason of optimism for Snell, the same would apply to MCW. (Regardless of how many teams, considering all teams are different. How many teams was Whiteside on before Miami?)

and considering how Noah didn't like the coach from reading between the lines

Completely, and utterly irrelevant. MCW and Noah are not the same player. They don't play the same position. They aren't the same age or in the same stage in their career, they have different players around them. And just because Noah didn't like him doesn't mean that other players don't. Noah's issues with Hoiberg were based around the role that Hoiberg wanted Noah to play. Noah didn't feel that he should be coming off the bench, when in actuality, his play and injury history shows that it was the correct call at the time. (That's not to say he can't have more good years...he was just coming back from injury and was not ready to start and take on heavy minutes, especially in the offense that Hoiberg uses.)

he will just be a bench warmer and nothing else

He WILL come off the bench. What determines a "Bench Warmer" in the negative sense, considering that a teams bench is incredibly important? In reference to being "nothing else", another complete unknown. No one, at this point, has any idea what he will be on the Bulls.

as they don't even need another guard whatsoever.

Completely false. The guards they have coming off the bench are not good enough. So yes, they need more guards. Whether MCW is good enough is debatable, but yes, they need more guards if the ones they have coming off the bench are not doing their job.

The Bucks wins this transaction easily

Opinion.


I think it is hilarious that people feel so passionately about this trade. I mean seriously. Two teams traded ineffective bench players. That doesn't mean that either one of those players won't get better for their new team.

Snell was terrible for the Bulls. He wasn't going to play. He was behind every other wing on the team. That being the case, who cares if was a better 3pt shooter when he wasn't going to see the floor to shoot 3's. Snell could very well become an effective player for the Bucks. No one knows right now. In the end, he is a bench player.

MCW was terrible for the Bucks and the Sixers. Both of those teams were young teams with no leadership, that were asking him to be something that he was quite obviously not capable of. The Bulls have a lot of leadership now with Wade, Butler, and Rondo. He very well could benefit from that type of leadership and become an effective player for the Bulls. No one knows right now. In the end, he is a bench player.

Slow time for the NBA......

Redrum187
10-19-2016, 01:01 PM
...

Clint Olbrock
10-26-2016, 09:22 PM
The Bulls just signed RJ Hunter, that should make this trade a little less worrisome.

xxcubs22xx
10-31-2016, 06:04 AM
This trade has already paid dividends for the Bulls.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 02:58 PM
If Wade's a legit 3pt shooter now (a decade into the game it would be among the most remarkable off-season feats in history), then it just changes everything for Chicago. He HAS to be for their spacing to work out and that offense to click, and so far he's answering the call. I'd still be shocked if he finishes the year >33% on 5+ attempts a game, but if so they're a legit player in the East.

KG2TB
10-31-2016, 03:10 PM
I could see Wade shooting 34-35% from 3 on about 2.5 attempts per game. That's fine. What a lot of people are ignoring, is the Bulls have floor spacers. Doug, Niko, Canaan, Valentine, could all stroke it. Perhaps more importantly, with Rondo running the show, with other smart players who are good passers that know how to play the game, they get good shots. Their strength right now is ball movement, which has led to a lot of open looks for their 3 point shooters. I don't see spacing as much a problem for this team as some do.

tredigs
10-31-2016, 04:09 PM
I mean, in two games Wade is literally 3 treys shy of his entire 2015/16 total in 74 games during the reg season. And he's been doing it consistently for months now, so yeah I'd say 2-3 attempts at 34-35% is a reasonable enough prediction actually. Mirotic and McD yeah, true, they'll both space the floor. To me it was just important that their starting unit had that spacing, and with 2015 Wade, that really would have been an issue. Wade 3.0 changes things for them in a very positive light. I'd be pretty thrilled if I was a Bulls fan right now tbh.

R!kSm!tz
10-31-2016, 04:36 PM
Yea I'm very happy with Wade. He's 23-45 since the playoffs. That's more 3s than he even shot last season. He hit more in 1 game than Klay and Durant all season, this will obviously change but I had to say it while I could lol.

He's look like our best/most dangerous player so far.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-04-2016, 09:31 AM
Snell been doing well for us. I'm loving the trade so far. I don't miss MCW turnovers.

Giannis94
11-04-2016, 09:44 AM
Snell been doing well for us. I'm loving the trade so far. I don't miss MCW turnovers.

Agreed on turnovers, or the 4th Quarter Shenanigans take the clock down to 5-6 seconds force a pass that becomes a turnover or a shot that misses completely

R!kSm!tz
11-04-2016, 10:21 AM
MCW got injured unfortunately but was playing great for us and was a great spark off the bench with his defense. Maybe the trade was needed for both players.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-05-2016, 10:37 PM
I said right away it was a good change of scenery for both players.