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View Full Version : NBA Auction Game (Finals): 1. Boca vs 3. Gopherland



Shammyguy3
10-13-2016, 11:13 AM
This year, GMs sent private bids for the top players in the game, then used a draft and free agency to fill out their roster. Assume full health when voting. Which team below wins in a 7-game series?

1. Boca
PG: Eric Bledsoe/Patty Mills
SG: Avery Bradley/Evan Turner
SF: Kevin Durant/Jerami Grant
PF: Amir Johnson/Myles Turner
C: Jonas Valanciunas/Kelly Olynyk


3. Gopherland
PG: Jrue Holiday /Darren Collison
SG: Rodney Hood / Joe Johnson
SF: Kawhi /Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
PF: Blake Griffin /Patrick Patterson
C: Clint Capela /Willie Cauley-Stein

Redrum187
10-13-2016, 11:32 AM
This is a good matchup.

I'm leaning Gopherland. I actually have Kawhi on par or slightly better than Durant at this point in time. Blake Griffin/Capela is a far better duo than Amir and Jonas. Jrue, when healthy, is not far off from Bledsoe (when he is healthy too). Though, I would easily take Bradley over Hood.

The most devastating thing against Boca is MKG on the bench. This will ensure an elite defender is cloaked on KD the entire time. I don't see Amir slowing Blake down much.

mngopher35
10-13-2016, 11:32 AM
Reasons why gopherland wins this matchup:

1. Blake Griffin. He has no one in the front court to stop my best play maker which will be huge for my offense as a whole. Valade pointed out a similar point with cousins and the same holds true for Blake. His best defender would be amir but Blake has had success against him in his career.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Blake+Griffin&player_id1_select=Blake+Griffin&player_id1=griffbl01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&player_id2=johnsam01
These are the head to head stats of Blake vs. Amir to help show my advantage. If you want to go further the last 6 of those match ups he was actually going against an Amir/Valuncias front court (at least part of the time, one game Val didn't start) where he averaged 25 ppg, 4 apg, on 55.9% from the field http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Blake+Griffin&player_id1_select=Blake+Griffin&player_id1=griffbl01&hint=Jonas+Valanciunas&player_id2_select=Jonas+Valanciunas&player_id2=valanjo01.

This is a huge advantage for my team to have our best playmaker facing little resistance and being capable of putting up those types of numbers and putting pressure on his defense.

2. His first option Durant will have Kawhi on him for most if not all of the series which will limit his team offensively overall.
http://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15423515/spurs-better-kawhi-leonard-russell-westbrook

This is an article asking who Kawhi should cover in the playoffs (where he ended up on Westbrook more than Durant). Anyways in the article if you scroll down a little on the right hand side it shows that over the last 3 seasons Durant has an effective fg% of 35.5% against Kawhi according to player tracking, worse than any other defender. To me this helps show that Kawhi is the best answer to Durant I could have besides Lebron James as he can really hurt his offensive game/efficiency when defending him. This time there will be no Westbrook to worry about so Kawhi can focus just on shutting KD down.

These two points are absolutely huge when considering match ups for this series and I think are the reasons my team would win. Blake can and has torched his starting front court which means my offense should be running smoothly through him and stay efficient. On the other end by far his best player who is expected to carry the load has an effective fg% of 35.5% against Kawhi over the last 3 years which is horrible for even average players standards and means they will need the others to step up a lot more. If Kawhi can somewhat cancel out Durant's offense and Blake is having a field day against their frontcourt the series should be over from the start. This plays perfectly into my goals of having Blake "lead" the offense and Kawhi "lead" the defense in a sense, both get the opportunity to shine with what they do best (unlike his star who has the toughest defender possible on him and should be somewhat limited).

I also think my team has an overall slightly better bench due to more versatility (mostly my wings) to switch things up throughout the series when needed. Not that I think this is a major issue like my matchup advantages listed above but it doesn't hurt to be able to switch a fresh MKG onto Durant for short stretches to really make him grind throughout the series. We all know that Westy wasn't enough for Durant and he wanted Curry/Klay/Green to help him which seems like he does not want to be forced to be the guy to have to create and Kawhi/MKG will really push him this series. On the other hand we can also go small with Joe and try to space everyone out for Blake to go 1v1 on any of his front court options who he should thrive against. Patterson can come in and be a defensive/spacing big and both of my centers are defensive types to help slow down Val and when not going small (capela will still spend the most time on Val though).

Lastly I just want to point out that his starting guards are not much better than mine, the difference is not very big and doesn't close the gap on a Blake/Val comparison much. Considering my advantages above (matchups+bench) and the gap between Blake/Val, I think he needs to have a big advantage outside of Kawhi/Blake and Durant/Val to keep up or win a series and it isn't really there.

Statistically speaking Hood actually had a higher PER, WS/48, BPM and RPM than Avery Bradley last season and he is also younger/more likely to improve come this year. Bledsoe has a similar advantage on Jrue though across the board as shown but overall my point is the guards are not too far off when it comes to production. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id1_select=Eric+Bledsoe&y1=2016&player_id1=bledser01&hint=Jrue+Holiday&player_id2_select=Jrue+Holiday&y2=2016&player_id2=holidjr01&hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id3_select=Avery+Bradley&y3=2016&player_id3=bradlav01&hint=Rodney+Hood&player_id4_select=Rodney+Hood&y4=2016&player_id4=hoodro01

Not even saying it is exactly equal here due to similar production but my point is he at least doesn't have that much of an advantage, these guys are close overall. To me this is not going to be a big difference maker in the series just like the benches wouldn't (although I think those favor me slightly). The key will be Kawhi/Blake and KD/Val and I have already pointed out my advantages with Kawhi/Blake in this match up (with a good defender in Capela on Val for a lot of the match up too).

While his team is very good, mine is just as if not more talented/productive while matching up really really well here. Personally I think Blake gives me the edge on talent that the rest of his roster can't quite make up for as shown but even if you lean the other way the match up issues still should sway it back towards me. I feel like having my offense run through Blake who has played great against his front court in the past will help the rest of my team be more efficient playing off that mismatch (not to mention help his own production). I also think having Kawhi limit Durant (again as of that article/player tracking 35.5% EFG% over last 3 years when Kawhi guarding which is horrible) would really hurt his offense and put a lot more pressure on his other players which hurts his teams overall offense/efficiency even more than just limiting Durant alone. As long as you think the talent is at least somewhat close I feel the match up pushes it in my favor easily here.

Want to see what Baller has to say but these are my initial thoughts/arguments.

mngopher35
10-13-2016, 11:38 AM
This is a good matchup.

I'm leaning Gopherland. I actually have Kawhi on par or slightly better than Durant at this point in time. Blake Griffin/Capela is a far better duo than Amir and Jonas. Jrue, when healthy, is not far off from Bledsoe (when he is healthy too). Though, I would easily take Bradley over Hood.

The most devastating thing against Boca is MKG on the bench. This will ensure an elite defender is cloaked on KD the entire time. I don't see Amir slowing Blake down much.

I see similar things you do here. I tried to point out the production similarities between Jrue/Bledsoe and Hood/Bradley to help show that the gap isn't nearly as big as the front court one with Blake. Not that you are wrong to prefer his duo though, it at least seems we agree it isn't enough to close the gap.

I added numbers to help show how Kawhi on Durant could be an advantage for me in the end and Blake putting up great numbers on Amir to help back what you say...

KnicksorBust
10-13-2016, 11:41 AM
This is a good matchup.

I'm leaning Gopherland. I actually have Kawhi on par or slightly better than Durant at this point in time. Blake Griffin/Capela is a far better duo than Amir and Jonas. Jrue, when healthy, is not far off from Bledsoe (when he is healthy too). Though, I would easily take Bradley over Hood.

The most devastating thing against Boca is MKG on the bench. This will ensure an elite defender is cloaked on KD the entire time. I don't see Amir slowing Blake down much.

Nice post. I agree that it doesn't get much tougher than Kawhi/MKG on your best perimeter defender for every minute of the game. Plus the Blake > Amir advantage gives this one to Gopherland. Nice job by both GMs but I like the upset in this matchup.

KnicksorBust
10-13-2016, 11:42 AM
Reasons why gopherland wins this matchup:

1. Blake Griffin. He has no one in the front court to stop my best play maker which will be huge for my offense as a whole. Valade pointed out a similar point with cousins and the same holds true for Blake. His best defender would be amir but Blake has had success against him in his career.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Blake+Griffin&player_id1_select=Blake+Griffin&player_id1=griffbl01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&player_id2=johnsam01
These are the head to head stats of Blake vs. Amir to help show my advantage. If you want to go further the last 6 of those match ups he was actually going against an Amir/Valuncias front court (at least part of the time, one game Val didn't start) where he averaged 25 ppg, 4 apg, on 55.9% from the field http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Blake+Griffin&player_id1_select=Blake+Griffin&player_id1=griffbl01&hint=Jonas+Valanciunas&player_id2_select=Jonas+Valanciunas&player_id2=valanjo01.

This is a huge advantage for my team to have our best playmaker facing little resistance and being capable of putting up those types of numbers and putting pressure on his defense.

2. His first option Durant will have Kawhi on him for most if not all of the series which will limit his team offensively overall.
http://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15423515/spurs-better-kawhi-leonard-russell-westbrook

This is an article asking who Kawhi should cover in the playoffs (where he ended up on Westbrook more than Durant). Anyways in the article if you scroll down a little on the right hand side it shows that over the last 3 seasons Durant has an effective fg% of 35.5% against Kawhi according to player tracking, worse than any other defender. To me this helps show that Kawhi is the best answer to Durant I could have besides Lebron James as he can really hurt his offensive game/efficiency when defending him. This time there will be no Westbrook to worry about so Kawhi can focus just on shutting KD down.

These two points are absolutely huge when considering match ups for this series and I think are the reasons my team would win. Blake can and has torched his starting front court which means my offense should be running smoothly through him and stay efficient. On the other end by far his best player who is expected to carry the load has an effective fg% of 35.5% against Kawhi over the last 3 years which is horrible for even average players standards and means they will need the others to step up a lot more. If Kawhi can somewhat cancel out Durant's offense and Blake is having a field day against their frontcourt the series should be over from the start. This plays perfectly into my goals of having Blake "lead" the offense and Kawhi "lead" the defense in a sense, both get the opportunity to shine with what they do best (unlike his star who has the toughest defender possible on him and should be somewhat limited).

I also think my team has an overall slightly better bench due to more versatility (mostly my wings) to switch things up throughout the series when needed. Not that I think this is a major issue like my matchup advantages listed above but it doesn't hurt to be able to switch a fresh MKG onto Durant for short stretches to really make him grind throughout the series. We all know that Westy wasn't enough for Durant and he wanted Curry/Klay/Green to help him which seems like he does not want to be forced to be the guy to have to create and Kawhi/MKG will really push him this series. On the other hand we can also go small with Joe and try to space everyone out for Blake to go 1v1 on any of his front court options who he should thrive against. Patterson can come in and be a defensive/spacing big and both of my centers are defensive types to help slow down Val and when not going small (capela will still spend the most time on Val though).

Lastly I just want to point out that his starting guards are not much better than mine, the difference is not very big and doesn't close the gap on a Blake/Val comparison much. Considering my advantages above (matchups+bench) and the gap between Blake/Val, I think he needs to have a big advantage outside of Kawhi/Blake and Durant/Val to keep up or win a series and it isn't really there.

Statistically speaking Hood actually had a higher PER, WS/48, BPM and RPM than Avery Bradley last season and he is also younger/more likely to improve come this year. Bledsoe has a similar advantage on Jrue though across the board as shown but overall my point is the guards are not too far off when it comes to production. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id1_select=Eric+Bledsoe&y1=2016&player_id1=bledser01&hint=Jrue+Holiday&player_id2_select=Jrue+Holiday&y2=2016&player_id2=holidjr01&hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id3_select=Avery+Bradley&y3=2016&player_id3=bradlav01&hint=Rodney+Hood&player_id4_select=Rodney+Hood&y4=2016&player_id4=hoodro01

Not even saying it is exactly equal here due to similar production but my point is he at least doesn't have that much of an advantage, these guys are close overall. To me this is not going to be a big difference maker in the series just like the benches wouldn't (although I think those favor me slightly). The key will be Kawhi/Blake and KD/Val and I have already pointed out my advantages with Kawhi/Blake in this match up (with a good defender in Capela on Val for a lot of the match up too).

While his team is very good, mine is just as if not more talented/productive while matching up really really well here. Personally I think Blake gives me the edge on talent that the rest of his roster can't quite make up for as shown but even if you lean the other way the match up issues still should sway it back towards me. I feel like having my offense run through Blake who has played great against his front court in the past will help the rest of my team be more efficient playing off that mismatch (not to mention help his own production). I also think having Kawhi limit Durant (again as of that article/player tracking 35.5% EFG% over last 3 years when Kawhi guarding which is horrible) would really hurt his offense and put a lot more pressure on his other players which hurts his teams overall offense/efficiency even more than just limiting Durant alone. As long as you think the talent is at least somewhat close I feel the match up pushes it in my favor easily here.

Want to see what Baller has to say but these are my initial thoughts/arguments.

Nice writeup. Good to see someone brought it for the Finals. :)

Ebbs
10-13-2016, 01:00 PM
This is a **** matchup for Baller.

Same reason I thought I'd give Baller fits with PG/Iggy.

Amir is getting undersold here defensively but I think a lineup of:

Jrue - Hood - Kawhi - MKG - Blake would just slaughter at both ends. Transition would be lethal and JV isn't getting the ball enough with Bled/KD to punish blake down low.

Shammyguy3
10-13-2016, 01:20 PM
From the moment gopher won the bids on Kawhi/Blake he had a leg up on everyone else in the game. Baller did a real good job of drafting around Durant and staying under the cap, but Gopher's been the team to beat this whole time and Baller's team matches up poorly.

Gopher takes this convincingly

Ebbs
10-13-2016, 01:31 PM
Gopher before FA maybe not. But FA really helped him not be paper thin.

valade16
10-13-2016, 01:37 PM
I was disappointed when Gopher took Hood/Capela in the draft since I thought there were better guys available but his team matches up extremely well vs Ballers.

I will wait for a rebuttal or write up from Baller before I make my vote.

KnicksorBust
10-13-2016, 02:10 PM
I was disappointed when Gopher took Hood/Capela in the draft since I thought there were better guys available but his team matches up extremely well vs Ballers.

I will wait for a rebuttal or write up from Baller before I make my vote.

Granted I don't know who was available in the draft but it would seem like from a team chemistry stand-point they are exactly what his team needed. Hood is good off the ball and can shoot and Capela is a very good defensive player who doesn't need the ball on offense. With a core of Jrue-Kawhi-Blake that is exactly what you would want... other than of course other all-stars lol.

valade16
10-13-2016, 02:17 PM
Granted I don't know who was available in the draft but it would seem like from a team chemistry stand-point they are exactly what his team needed. Hood is good off the ball and can shoot and Capela is a very good defensive player who doesn't need the ball on offense. With a core of Jrue-Kawhi-Blake that is exactly what you would want... other than of course other all-stars lol.

I actually think he got Jrue last via FA.

mngopher35
10-13-2016, 02:26 PM
Since we are discussing it anyways I will just get into my thought process a little (hopefully people are voting on players/matchup and not what I say next lol).

I somewhat agree with Shammy about my duo being the best overall and that is how I was approaching things somewhat in draft/fa. After that what I was looking to do was round out the team nicely with role players who fit while also having versatility to match up with anyone else. I was less concerned with name value or star power with my picks due to that duo tbh. In the end I went a bit conservative with Hood/Capela for the reasons KOB mentioned about a good off ball player and a defensive center which I think fits very well. Just as important is that combined they cost me about 3 million and saving money for FA was a plan of mine from the start to round out the roster (ebbs kinda pointed this out actually, I only planned to draft 5 or so players). To me while those picks aren't flashy and arguably not the best value at the spot it was due to fit/price that I went with that combo. Admittadly it might have been different without Kawhi/Blake and I am not even saying in retrospect I maximized my team so it is fair to question that (we all were somewhat new to the process/game).

I will say when you look at the production of both they actually look quite good (which I pointed out with Bradley/Hood and Capela/Noel), and both are young players who should keep improving into next year. Capela's rebounding/defense and Hoods all around game as an off ball player, along with their production/price, made me pull the trigger. In the end though I think by getting cheap players who fit there it allowed me to round out my roster well with Jrue/MKG etc and gave me a very well rounded group around my two stars.

While I get there is an argument it did not maximize what I could have done overall talent wise I still think I have the best top level star power with great fit/versatility all around to match up with anyone.

mngopher35
10-13-2016, 02:29 PM
I actually think he got Jrue last via FA.

Yup. If Capela/Hood had cost even 8 million combined I might not have had the money for something like that though but being only 3 helped me afford the rest.

cmellofan15
10-13-2016, 02:33 PM
Boca because Kevin Durant is a ****ing monster. the way he dominated Kawhi on offense and defense last year was incredible

mngopher35
10-13-2016, 02:41 PM
Boca because Kevin Durant is a ****ing monster. the way he dominated Kawhi on offense and defense last year was incredible

Before the playoffs KD had an EFG% of 35.5 against Kawhi over the last 3 seasons according to player tracking. When they played each other in the playoffs Kawhi guarded Westbrook far more than Durant so not sure how that is KD dominating him (if anything to me it shows pop thought Westbrook was a bigger issue than KD, he even was on Roberson some too as a helper)? There is no Westbrook to lead the offense here though so Kawhi can guard KD all series and he doesn't have someone else like that to create for the rest of the team...

Raps18-19 Champ
10-13-2016, 09:23 PM
Raps request rematch with Gopher

Sadds The Gr8
10-14-2016, 01:19 PM
Baller fails to get his first ring?

KnicksorBust
10-14-2016, 02:38 PM
Congrats Gopher. This was my favorite team in the game. A well deserved win. :clap:

Hood and Capela get their first rings as well.

Ebbs
10-14-2016, 04:20 PM
Baller fails to get his first ring?

wait, wait.... Baller has never won? :laugh:

Sadds The Gr8
10-15-2016, 12:02 AM
wait, wait.... Baller has never won? :laugh:

not that i remember, unless he won before i started playing

Shammyguy3
10-15-2016, 12:26 PM
i've never won :sad2:

mngopher35
10-15-2016, 12:54 PM
Congrats Gopher. This was my favorite team in the game. A well deserved win. :clap:

Hood and Capela get their first rings as well.

Thanks, once I had Kawhi/Blake I just tried not to blow it. I actually thought there were some really solid teams outside of these two and I think with a few tweaks (like free agency) being taken care of for next time this auction game can lead to wide open results.

KnicksorBust
10-15-2016, 03:34 PM
Congrats Gopher. This was my favorite team in the game. A well deserved win. :clap:

Hood and Capela get their first rings as well.

Thanks, once I had Kawhi/Blake I just tried not to blow it. I actually thought there were some really solid teams outside of these two and I think with a few tweaks (like free agency) being taken care of for next time this auction game can lead to wide open results.

Yeah honestly auctions are the most fair and strategic style of drafting. It is almost exclusively what I do for fantasy football and baseball now and I love how you guys adopted it for psd. Anyone can now get LeBron... you just have to pony up the cash and work extra hard to build a competent roster around him. Nice job by Shammy running this! What a fun game idea.

Shammyguy3
10-15-2016, 10:34 PM
Yeah honestly auctions are the most fair and strategic style of drafting. It is almost exclusively what I do for fantasy football and baseball now and I love how you guys adopted it for psd. Anyone can now get LeBron... you just have to pony up the cash and work extra hard to build a competent roster around him. Nice job by Shammy running this! What a fun game idea.



Thank you, next game it will be even better now that we all have a feel for the game. You should play!

Ebbs
10-16-2016, 06:07 PM
i've never won :sad2:

I guess that makes my five rings kinda cool, eh?

The_Jamal
10-17-2016, 09:13 AM
Yea Gopherland. The Small-ball LU of Jrue-Hood-MKG-Kawhi-Blake can't be stopped by Boca. Jonas isn't getting the ball enough, nor is he good enough to take over a series if Blake is guarding him. Also, Amir and Jonas both having to play on the perimeter vs the quickness of Blake, MKG and Kawhi is foolhardy.