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Soxfan85
10-10-2016, 08:58 PM
I know it's early but... Ok who stays and who goes?


I'm sorry but Farrell needs to go. I want Lovullo to be the next coach. When JF was sick Lovullo did a hell of a job. The rest of the staff can stay.

Who Goes

Koji (UFA, Tazawa (FA), Buchholz ($13MM OPT).

j-bay
10-10-2016, 09:46 PM
Farrell should be gone but knowing how much we like him, he stays.

Looking at FAs i'm looking at

EE
Wade Davis or Jansen

Catcher needs to be looked at. Do you take another chance on CV, Swihart, or Leon. Or do you look at a 3 year deal replacement and draft a catcher.

Pomeranz needs to go to the pen. Problem is there is no one in FA.

Do you put Moncada out and see what teams offer? Don't trade him if you can't get what you want.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-10-2016, 09:57 PM
I honestly don't think Farrell is the reason why this team lost.

Soxfan85
10-10-2016, 10:02 PM
I honestly don't think Farrell is the reason why this team lost.

But I think well IMO he leaves his SP in way too long if they are getting destroyed or using a pitcher IE Kimbrel in non save situations in which he knows he can't handle yet still does also with A-Bad against right handed when he clearly is lefty only. Then we have Taz who just blows up and yet he still uses him. I can go on but just how I observed the 2016 season.

bosox1899
10-10-2016, 10:02 PM
No f-ing way we go into next season with leon as our starting catcher. Unfortunately, i don't know who we replace him with but I'm sure there is someone better out there

j-bay
10-10-2016, 10:06 PM
No f-ing way we go into next season with leon as our starting catcher. Unfortunately, i don't know who we replace him with but I'm sure there is someone better out there

Alex Avila (30)
Drew Butera (34)
Jason Castro (30)
A.J. Ellis (36)
Ryan Hanigan (36) — $3.75MM club option with an $800K buyout
Nick Hundley (33)
Chris Iannetta (34) — $4.25MM club option
Jonathan Lucroy (31) — $5.25MM club option with a $25K buyout
Jeff Mathis (34)
Dioner Navarro (33)
A.J. Pierzynski (40)
Wilson Ramos (29)
Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32)
Geovany Soto (34)
Kurt Suzuki (33)
Matt Wieters (31)

Lucroy won't hit the market probably

Soxfan85
10-10-2016, 10:28 PM
No f-ing way we go into next season with leon as our starting catcher. Unfortunately, i don't know who we replace him with but I'm sure there is someone better out there

Well it's not going to be Hanigan that's for sure. They will use the $8K buyout. Only good catcher I see available is Wieters

celticsman2009
10-10-2016, 10:51 PM
I think you go into next year like this,

C-Vasquez/Swihart
1B- S. Travis
2B- Pedroia
SS- Bogaerts
3B- Moncada
LF- Benintendi
CF-Bradley
RF-Betts
DH- Trumbo/Encarnacion

SP-Price
SP-Porcello
SP-Rodriguez
SP
SP

CL-Kimbrel
SU-Smith
BP-Kelly
BP-Barnes
BP-Ross
BP


I'd dangle Bradley and Hanley in trades. With Ortiz gone, I fear Hanley might revert back to the dog he is, so maybe cash in now. Probably too soon for Moncada, but I don't want Shaw there again. Need to add legit reliable arms to the pens. Wade Davis or Jansen obviously would be nice. Chapman and Melancon too.

The development of Kopech and Groome will be huge this year. Kopech might work his way to pitch out of the pen by the end of the year next year.

j-bay
10-10-2016, 10:59 PM
I think you go into next year like this,

C-Vasquez/Swihart
1B- S. Travis
2B- Pedroia
SS- Bogaerts
3B- Moncada
LF- Benintendi
CF-Bradley
RF-Betts
DH- Trumbo/Encarnacion

SP-Price
SP-Porcello
SP-Rodriguez
SP
SP

CL-Kimbrel
SU-Smith
BP-Kelly
BP-Barnes
BP-Ross
BP


I'd dangle Bradley and Hanley in trades. With Ortiz gone, I fear Hanley might revert back to the dog he is, so maybe cash in now. Probably too soon for Moncada, but I don't want Shaw there again. Need to add legit reliable arms to the pens. Wade Davis or Jansen obviously would be nice. Chapman and Melancon too.

The development of Kopech and Groome will be huge this year. Kopech might work his way to pitch out of the pen by the end of the year next year.

Moncada isn't ready yet.

-Lavigne43-
10-10-2016, 11:42 PM
There's no chance we make an external move at catcher. You guys don't realize how low the bar is offensively at that position.

I wouldn't expect many significant changes. Our SP is set: Price, Porcello, ERod, Pomeranz, Wright. Given the horrible FA market for SP, the trade market for SP will be brutallly expensive. Maybe the market will be so good that it would make sense to use Clay's option to trade him, or another SP.
With Shaw, Holt, Sandoval, I doubt we make a move for a 3b.

The only thing I expect is the obvious. They are probably going to get Encarnacion. If not Encarnacion, they will acquire someone that allows them to shuffle players into the DH spot to give them half days off. I could also see them being very aggressive in the relief market.

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 12:12 AM
The only good part of us losing is there is no way John Farrell retains his job at the end of this season. He incredibly mis managed this season. If there was a manager WAR his would easily be up there with robin ventura and terry collins as the worst "in game" managers in the league. He may have been liked by players on a personal basis(no truth or denial to this but ive never heard anyone having a problem with him), but his in game managing was horrible.

Just for comparison sake. If you dont think John Farrell is a bad manager. Name 5 current managers worse than him. I mentioned ventura and collins, feel free to use them in your worst 5. I just want what to see peoples opinions are on this matter because it should be a decently hot topic over the off season.

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 12:17 AM
No f-ing way we go into next season with leon as our starting catcher. Unfortunately, i don't know who we replace him with but I'm sure there is someone better out there

Swihart. This is the year where people in Swiharts position really grasp what is going on and make statistical leaps. Not saying he will peak next year, but if his projections are real he will have a good year next season. But yes catcher needs to improve.

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 12:23 AM
Moncada isn't ready yet.

Give him an offseason and spring training and he could be similar to a Kris Bryant situation where they wait a month, maybe stretch it to 2 months and bring him up. He needs to work on major league breaking balls. He has a whole winter to improve on it. He is raking at AA and did so at A, he just needs to see more pitches but he is not far off at all. By the progression he has shown to this point he can be a full time starter by all star break.

-Lavigne43-
10-11-2016, 12:24 AM
I dislike Farrell's in game managing as much as anyone, but I just don't expect him getting fired. It just doesn't feel like the ownership/front office shares the same sentiments.

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 12:27 AM
I dislike Farrell's in game managing as much as anyone, but I just don't expect him getting fired. It just doesn't feel like the ownership/front office shares the same sentiments.

Maybe old management, but Dombrowski really is a win now guy and if he feels somthing is holding back the team I'm sure he is more than willing to make that move, but I understand what you are saying, he was the manager of a team who went form worst to first. Still can be gone tho.

RedSoxtober
10-11-2016, 02:40 AM
Maybe old management, but Dombrowski really is a win now guy and if he feels somthing is holding back the team I'm sure he is more than willing to make that move, but I understand what you are saying, he was the manager of a team who went form worst to first. Still can be gone tho.

DD WAS a win-now guy when he had a win-now, octogenarian owner. I'm not sure you can apply those rules to his tenure in Boston.

bosox1899
10-11-2016, 09:09 AM
There's no chance we make an external move at catcher. You guys don't realize how low the bar is offensively at that position.

I wouldn't expect many significant changes. Our SP is set: Price, Porcello, ERod, Pomeranz, Wright. Given the horrible FA market for SP, the trade market for SP will be brutallly expensive. Maybe the market will be so good that it would make sense to use Clay's option to trade him, or another SP.
With Shaw, Holt, Sandoval, I doubt we make a move for a 3b.

The only thing I expect is the obvious. They are probably going to get Encarnacion. If not Encarnacion, they will acquire someone that allows them to shuffle players into the DH spot to give them half days off. I could also see them being very aggressive in the relief market.


Swihart. This is the year where people in Swiharts position really grasp what is going on and make statistical leaps. Not saying he will peak next year, but if his projections are real he will have a good year next season. But yes catcher needs to improve.

i am willing to give swihart a chance since we know he's got the offensive capabilities. we have vazquez for defense. Leon is just too easy to strike out, all you have to do is throw the curve ball and bounce in the ground and he'll swing everytime

Pittz
10-11-2016, 09:14 AM
Pomeranz needs to go to the pen.

No.

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 11:15 AM
double post

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 11:20 AM
No.

Something has to be done. We traded the value of a #15 prospect in all of the mlb for a guy who came here and had a 4.59 ERA in the regular season and 4.91 in the postseason. DD took a huge gamble trading the value he did for Pomeranz who is a largely unproven pitcher before coming here. We knew walks and home runs would be an issue here as opposed in San Diego. Hopefully Pomeranz can come back and be a good 4th/ 5th starter, but I wouldnt mind trading him back the the national league for some relief pitching. Just dont think he is an American League pitcher and his numbers in Fenway are scary bad.

At Fenway he had a 5.91 ERA, .287 BAA and allowed running to reach base at a .359 clip. He also gave up 8 home runs in 32 innings.

Who knows, maybe he has a Porcello type turn around. However if he was moved this offseason for an established bullpen arm, I wouldnt care.

Impaler
10-11-2016, 12:52 PM
Maybe old management, but Dombrowski really is a win now guy and if he feels somthing is holding back the team I'm sure he is more than willing to make that move, but I understand what you are saying, he was the manager of a team who went form worst to first. Still can be gone tho.

I feel the biggest reason you guys lost was your starting pitching simply crashed and burned. Had Dombrowski found a way to get Sale and/or Quintana from the CWS you would be still in it if not at home right now getting ready for the Blue Jays.

But I still find that you guys have plenty of upside to utterly dominate the MLB for at least the next few years but you need to upgrade your starters. So it's probably time to revisit the Sale & Quintana scenario again.

If you could get Sale and/or Quintana I would trade Price to another team who needs SP like the Marlins. Price is overpaid and never does well in the playoffs. Anyway just my 2 cents.

-Lavigne43-
10-11-2016, 12:55 PM
He's worth a lot more than a good reliever. That's what Miley got us last year. The pitching market this year is horrible, the worst I can remember. We are not in a position to trade pitching, there's too much uncertainty in our rotation. Right now I would assume the rotation is Price-Porcello-ERod-Pomeranz-Wright. Who knows what we get from Wright. Who knows if Porcello can ever repeat the kind of season he had this year. I don't like Pomeranz and I hated the trade, but we don't have the proper depth to trade SP. If anything, I bet they will excercise Clay's option because the SP market is so horrible and go into the season with those 6 prepared to start.

I think the only real impact that can be made on this roster is through the bullpen. Right now it's Kimbrel, Smith, Barnes, Kelly, Ross. We need to add 2-3 good relievers.

-Lavigne43-
10-11-2016, 01:07 PM
I feel the biggest reason you guys lost was your starting pitching simply crashed and burned. Had Dombrowski found a way to get Sale and/or Quintana from the CWS you would be still in it if not at home right now getting ready for the Blue Jays.

But I still find that you guys have plenty of upside to utterly dominate the MLB for at least the next few years but you need to upgrade your starters. So it's probably time to revisit the Sale & Quintana scenario again.

If you could get Sale and/or Quintana I would trade Price to another team who needs SP like the Marlins. Price is overpaid and never does well in the playoffs. Anyway just my 2 cents.

It's hard to upgrade over what Porcello and Price did this season. Both of them would have pitched in playoff games regardless of who else was in the rotation. Our rotation isn't the only part of the team that crashed and burned. The majority of the lineup was horrible in the series. Holt and Benintendi were the only hitters who had a good series. The cost of acquiring Sale would be more damaging to our roster than the benefit he would give us. And honestly, I don't expect Sale to be an elite pitcher that much longer. Everything about him screams that he will break down as he gets older.

chomaru
10-11-2016, 02:19 PM
So with Farrell getting the nod of approval to return next season my first thought is that is bad news for Xander. To me, these two will not be able to coexist.

We all know what happened when Farrell went up the back stairs to have Stephen Drew take Xander's job but something similar happened this season. In spring training Farrell was quoted as saying that Xander views the 3 hole much like he did playing shortstop and that he wasn't going to mess with him, pretty much implying that he is a head case.

So I ask you this, what do you think is going on in the Boras camp when his 300 mill SS who hits in the 3 hole is suddenly a 3B hitting 6th?

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 02:40 PM
He's worth a lot more than a good reliever. That's what Miley got us last year. The pitching market this year is horrible, the worst I can remember. We are not in a position to trade pitching, there's too much uncertainty in our rotation. Right now I would assume the rotation is Price-Porcello-ERod-Pomeranz-Wright. Who knows what we get from Wright. Who knows if Porcello can ever repeat the kind of season he had this year. I don't like Pomeranz and I hated the trade, but we don't have the proper depth to trade SP. If anything, I bet they will excercise Clay's option because the SP market is so horrible and go into the season with those 6 prepared to start.

I think the only real impact that can be made on this roster is through the bullpen. Right now it's Kimbrel, Smith, Barnes, Kelly, Ross. We need to add 2-3 good relievers.

Wade Miley with Red sox:

4.46 ERA
1.368 WHIP
3.81FIP
9.3 HR/9
3.0 BB/9

Drew Pomeranz with Red Sox:

4.59 ERA
1.369 WHIP
4.78 FIP
9.2 HR/9
3.1 BB/9

celticsman2009
10-11-2016, 03:00 PM
Farrell back next year according to DD. sigh :(

Green_Monster
10-11-2016, 03:31 PM
Great start to the off-season. :(

BSF101
10-11-2016, 03:54 PM
Why is on God's Green Earth is Farrell coming back? We can all agree 2013 was a
great yr that no one say coming but when your in last place twice in 2014/2015 and
then can't make it past the ALDS against a team we should of beaten its time to go.

celticsman2009
10-11-2016, 03:56 PM
Thoughts on Votto to DH or play 1B?

BoSox47
10-11-2016, 03:59 PM
Thoughts on Votto to DH or play 1B?

Id rather give the money to edwin encarnacion. Or a pitcher.

BSF101
10-11-2016, 04:10 PM
Guys I would like to see in a Red Sox Uniform pitching next season.

1)Johnny Cueto (30 yrs old) stats http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/28955/johnny-cueto

2)Chris Sale (27 yrs old) http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/30948

3)Noah Syndergaard (24 yrs old) http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/31730

chomaru
10-11-2016, 05:39 PM
Carlos Beltran wouldn't be a bad option if they lose out on Encarnacion. Overpaying for Encarnacion would actually be sort of a shrewd move since it would weaken a division rival while filling a need at the same time.

RedSoxtober
10-11-2016, 07:31 PM
Thoughts on Votto to DH or play 1B?
At $172M/7yrs (age 33-39 seasons), I'm really not that interested.


Carlos Beltran wouldn't be a bad option if they lose out on Encarnacion. Overpaying for Encarnacion would actually be sort of a shrewd move since it would weaken a division rival while filling a need at the same time.

Given what the Jays offered EE and Bautista, I strongly suspect that at least one of them is gone so TOR is weakened no matter what happens (IMO). That said, I'd pretty happily give him a big chunk of the Ortiz/Uehara money coming off the books ($25M).

RedSoxtober
10-11-2016, 07:34 PM
BTW, what are the chances that we can move Sandoval before the season starts (including ST deal)?

Green_Monster
10-11-2016, 08:15 PM
BTW, what are the chances that we can move Sandoval before the season starts (including ST deal)?

I'd say very little unless he comes into camp in amazing shape (lol) and dominates. Even then, we'd have to eat a bunch of money. I'd put the chance of a deal at about 10%.

Soxfan85
10-11-2016, 08:26 PM
Guys I would like to see in a Red Sox Uniform pitching next season.

1)Johnny Cueto (30 yrs old) stats http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/28955/johnny-cueto

2)Chris Sale (27 yrs old) http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/30948

3)Noah Syndergaard (24 yrs old) http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/31730

All 3 would be nice but would cost you Xander type player.

Pittz
10-11-2016, 08:30 PM
Something has to be done. We traded the value of a #15 prospect in all of the mlb for a guy who came here and had a 4.59 ERA in the regular season and 4.91 in the postseason. DD took a huge gamble trading the value he did for Pomeranz who is a largely unproven pitcher before coming here. We knew walks and home runs would be an issue here as opposed in San Diego. Hopefully Pomeranz can come back and be a good 4th/ 5th starter, but I wouldnt mind trading him back the the national league for some relief pitching. Just dont think he is an American League pitcher and his numbers in Fenway are scary bad.

At Fenway he had a 5.91 ERA, .287 BAA and allowed running to reach base at a .359 clip. He also gave up 8 home runs in 32 innings.

Who knows, maybe he has a Porcello type turn around. However if he was moved this offseason for an established bullpen arm, I wouldnt care.

I literally don't understand how people can look at the production (or, more accurately, struggles) of Pomeranz and expect that to be the norm going forward. Sure, it may be, but when acquired, he was already at a career high in innings pitched. His career high in IP was 96.2 in 2012, or more relevant because he didn't approach that the next couple of years, 86 IP in 2015. He was at 102 when acquired and finished at 170.2 plus 3.2 IP in the postseason.

Expecting him to have the same production as in San Diego with that increase in workload is asinine. Hoping for it, gambling for it, absolutely that makes sense. Being disappointed by the results, sure, I get that too. But his performance down the stretch is not necessarily indicative of who he is as a pitcher.

This trade was NOT made thinking of only 2016. If you believe that to be the case, then you must think DD and our front office is unbelievably stupid, because how could the expectation be the same performance of the first half of the season. 2017 and 2018, that is where the trade will hopefully pay off (since it didn't this year).

You're willing to give up on an a potential all-star because he struggled when he was double his most ever innings pitched?

bagwell368
10-11-2016, 09:46 PM
Something has to be done. We traded the value of a #15 prospect in all of the mlb for a guy who came here and had a 4.59 ERA in the regular season and 4.91 in the postseason. DD took a huge gamble trading the value he did for Pomeranz who is a largely unproven pitcher before coming here. We knew walks and home runs would be an issue here as opposed in San Diego. Hopefully Pomeranz can come back and be a good 4th/ 5th starter, but I wouldnt mind trading him back the the national league for some relief pitching. Just dont think he is an American League pitcher and his numbers in Fenway are scary bad.

At Fenway he had a 5.91 ERA, .287 BAA and allowed running to reach base at a .359 clip. He also gave up 8 home runs in 32 innings.

Who knows, maybe he has a Porcello type turn around. However if he was moved this offseason for an established bullpen arm, I wouldnt care.

Young guy from the NL. Patience.

BSF101
10-12-2016, 03:09 AM
All 3 would be nice but would cost you Xander type player.

Yeah and it sucks we can't get anyone of these guys without giving up a good player.

BoSox47
10-12-2016, 09:12 AM
I literally don't understand how people can look at the production (or, more accurately, struggles) of Pomeranz and expect that to be the norm going forward. Sure, it may be, but when acquired, he was already at a career high in innings pitched. His career high in IP was 96.2 in 2012, or more relevant because he didn't approach that the next couple of years, 86 IP in 2015. He was at 102 when acquired and finished at 170.2 plus 3.2 IP in the postseason.

Expecting him to have the same production as in San Diego with that increase in workload is asinine. Hoping for it, gambling for it, absolutely that makes sense. Being disappointed by the results, sure, I get that too. But his performance down the stretch is not necessarily indicative of who he is as a pitcher.

This trade was NOT made thinking of only 2016. If you believe that to be the case, then you must think DD and our front office is unbelievably stupid, because how could the expectation be the same performance of the first half of the season. 2017 and 2018, that is where the trade will hopefully pay off (since it didn't this year).

You're willing to give up on an a potential all-star because he struggled when he was double his most ever innings pitched?

I dont think antone expected him to duplicate his numbers from san diego. At the same time the guy had almost 2 Earned runs higher here than in the national league.

Drew Pomeranz with Red Sox:

4.59 ERA
1.369 WHIP
4.78 FIP
9.2 HR/9
3.1 BB/9

Those stats right there are worse than Wade Mileys stats with us. We traded the value of a #15 prospect for a guy that has jumped back and forth between starting rotations and the bullpen. His numbers were awful for us last season and as a career they werent much better. Traded that value for a career 4.07 starting pitcher in the National League. His bullpen numbers are far better than his starting pitching numbers.

Like I said maybe he turns it around like Porcello, but the track record for national league pitchers coming to the american league is not good.


@bagwell368
Young guy from the NL. Patience.

Pomeranz is turning 28 in November and has 6 years in the league.

sager729
10-12-2016, 09:22 AM
Everyone has said Sale would break down because of his arm action and that TJ was inevitable 2-3 years ago, dude is still going strong and a top 5 SP in baseball.

The Red Sox need to make a move in their rotation. Rick Porcello could easily revert back to being just a good #3 and Price is exactly what everyone knew him to be. I expect Dombrowski to use his depth of young talent and go get one of Sale, Quintana, Archer or Gray this offseason.

Pittz
10-12-2016, 09:42 AM
I dont think antone expected him to duplicate his numbers from san diego. At the same time the guy had almost 2 Earned runs higher here than in the national league.

Drew Pomeranz with Red Sox:

4.59 ERA
1.369 WHIP
4.78 FIP
9.2 HR/9
3.1 BB/9

Those stats right there are worse than Wade Mileys stats with us. We traded the value of a #15 prospect for a guy that has jumped back and forth between starting rotations and the bullpen. His numbers were awful for us last season and as a career they werent much better. Traded that value for a career 4.07 starting pitcher in the National League. His bullpen numbers are far better than his starting pitching numbers.

Like I said maybe he turns it around like Porcello, but the track record for national league pitchers coming to the american league is not good.


@bagwell368

Pomeranz is turning 28 in November and has 6 years in the league.

You (and a lot of people here) had unrealistic expectations and are ready to give up on him far too soon. I really do understand the disappointment with the results to this point, but isolating his stats with us and suggesting that's a representation of what to expect going forward is ridiculously short-sighted. Saying you wouldn't mind dumping him for a RP is a horrible idea.

Green_Monster
10-12-2016, 12:45 PM
Everyone has said Sale would break down because of his arm action and that TJ was inevitable 2-3 years ago, dude is still going strong and a top 5 SP in baseball.

The Red Sox need to make a move in their rotation. Rick Porcello could easily revert back to being just a good #3 and Price is exactly what everyone knew him to be. I expect Dombrowski to use his depth of young talent and go get one of Sale, Quintana, Archer or Gray this offseason.

If the White Sox asking price is anywhere near what it was rumored to be, nothing will get done. Benintendi is no longer a viable trade option as well.

BoSox47
10-12-2016, 01:14 PM
You (and a lot of people here) had unrealistic expectations and are ready to give up on him far too soon. I really do understand the disappointment with the results to this point, but isolating his stats with us and suggesting that's a representation of what to expect going forward is ridiculously short-sighted. Saying you wouldn't mind dumping him for a RP is a horrible idea.

I didnt want the trade from day one. Didnt think he was worth the value of a 15th overall prospect. Its not only isolating his stats with us. He has been a 4.07 ERA as a starter throughout his career, most of it spent in the national league. Pitchers usually see their numbers get worse moving from the national league to american league and for him they absolutely did.

He has awful command of his pitches with a career 3.7 BB/9.

When he does throw it in the strike zone he is giving up almost 2 home runs over a 9 inning span.

He looks like wade miley 2.0.

chomaru
10-12-2016, 03:22 PM
BTW, what are the chances that we can move Sandoval before the season starts (including ST deal)?

What if you sign Chapman and then you could either flip Kimbrel to replenish the farm or you could dangle him alongside Panda while also eating about 30 mill.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-12-2016, 04:21 PM
Hopefully they can re-sign one of Ziegler or Uehara. Kelly also looks like he has the potential to be a really good 8th inning guy. If they could get Chapman, no draft pick attached with signing him. But I'm not sure if DD is going to invest that much for 8th and 9th inning guys considering what he gave up for Kimbrel last year and that the Cubs are going to offer Chapman a lot of money to re-sign.

sager729
10-12-2016, 05:16 PM
If the White Sox asking price is anywhere near what it was rumored to be, nothing will get done. Benintendi is no longer a viable trade option as well.

Do not count out Dombrowski trading prospects. He will do it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he deals some for a guy like I mentioned.

Green_Monster
10-12-2016, 05:45 PM
Do not count out Dombrowski trading prospects. He will do it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he deals some for a guy like I mentioned.

Indeed he does, but he's dealt his prospects. Moncada and Benintendi are staying, just like they were at the trade deadline. We all know that's what White Sox fans expect for Sale/Quintana, but just like I told you guys in July, it's not happening. Neither is Betts or JBJ. If we're talking Rodriguez+Shaw+Devers+? Sure, but the White Sox won't do that. A deal isn't there.

Moncada was pretty much a consensus top two prospect in the league. Two bad weeks in the MLB or whatever it was doesn't change that.

BoSox47
10-12-2016, 06:02 PM
Indeed he does, but he's dealt his prospects. Moncada and Benintendi are staying, just like they were at the trade deadline. We all know that's what White Sox fans expect for Sale/Quintana, but just like I told you guys in July, it's not happening. Neither is Betts or JBJ. If we're talking Rodriguez+Shaw+Devers+? Sure, but the White Sox won't do that. A deal isn't there.

Moncada was pretty much a consensus top two prospect in the league. Two bad weeks in the MLB or whatever it was doesn't change that.

Are you saying JBJ isnt going anywhere in the aspect that he is untouchable? After his hitting streak he reverted back to his old ways hitting .234 from May 26th through the end of the season. While he is certainly valuable in that he is great defensively and had a 4.8 WAR. But if an opportunity comes to bring in a Sale or Quintana then you absolutely trade JBJ for them. Let Benintendi or Mookie take CF/RF and find someone to play LF.

Green_Monster
10-12-2016, 07:09 PM
Are you saying JBJ isnt going anywhere in the aspect that he is untouchable? After his hitting streak he reverted back to his old ways hitting .234 from May 26th through the end of the season. While he is certainly valuable in that he is great defensively and had a 4.8 WAR. But if an opportunity comes to bring in a Sale or Quintana then you absolutely trade JBJ for them. Let Benintendi or Mookie take CF/RF and find someone to play LF.

I'm not saying JBJ is untouchable. Haven't said that and won't say it.

JBJ outplayed both of them. It also wouldn't be a 1 for 1 deal. Easy pass.

sager729
10-12-2016, 08:34 PM
Easy pass is hilarious after what you just watched Porcello, Price and Bucholz do in the postseason.

Green_Monster
10-12-2016, 09:51 PM
Easy pass is hilarious after what you just watched Porcello, Price and Bucholz do in the postseason.

Making a bad trade just because of a need is an action that can get you fired.

Price-Porcello-Wright-Rodriguez-Pomeranz is fine. Mixture of experience and potential.

-Lavigne43-
10-12-2016, 09:55 PM
I would pursue Chapman with the plan of keeping Kimbrel. One thing that I have realized the last couple years is that elite relievers have been undervalued. They are undervalued because they still retain an insane amount of trade value. Andrew Miller is the perfect example of this. Andrew Miller's role on the Indians is also what I would dream of Chapman doing for us.

j-bay
10-12-2016, 10:36 PM
I think the Cubs keep Chapman. I think someone like Jansen or Wade Davis is more likely

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-12-2016, 11:08 PM
I would pursue Chapman with the plan of keeping Kimbrel. One thing that I have realized the last couple years is that elite relievers have been undervalued. They are undervalued because they still retain an insane amount of trade value. Andrew Miller is the perfect example of this. Andrew Miller's role on the Indians is also what I would dream of Chapman doing for us.

Ya. Looking at the Yankees and Indians (towards the end) this season it was you had to have tied the game or maybe be within a run by the seventh inning or you were going to lose. Having two relieves that good at the end of your bullpen can do wonders.

papipapsmanny
10-13-2016, 03:45 PM
Wouldn't mind trading Wright and a piece for another SP. Wright was outplaying himself even before the injury. I'd expect a decent amount of regression.

Carson Smith is coming back, but I wouldn't mind signing Greg Holland, and also signing Koji for 1 year.

Hitters.... I don't know. Maybe make a play for Votto sending Sandoval and prospects for him.

papipapsmanny
10-14-2016, 07:44 PM
Catcher I don't touch. We really don't need anything special there offensively with how the rest of our offense produces and given that the position is more defensive by nature.

If we go after EE then I do a 4 year deal. Again Sign Koji, and go after Holland

I'd try and trade Wright, Swihart, Devers, and Brian Johnson for Jose Quintana

Pedroia 2B
Benintendi LF
Betts RF
EE -1B/DH
Hanley 1B/DH
Bogaerts SS
Sandoval 3B
Leon/Vazquez C
JBJ CF

Holt/Shaw/Young on the bench (A lot of RH hitters but still a damn good lineup)

Price
Quintana
Porcello
Pomeranz
E-Rod

Kimbrell
Smith
Holland
Koji
Kelly (Use him all over)
Abad
Ross
Barnes/Hembree

sager729
10-14-2016, 10:14 PM
Yeah Devers is the only player in that deal that the White Sox would probably want possibly Swihart, but remember they just drafted a C at 10 who could be up later in 2017. They don't want a 32 year old knuckleballer with 1 good season or a 26 year old SP with 4 major league innings.

Quintana will take on of the top 2 as the centerpiece.

Green_Monster
10-15-2016, 09:34 AM
Yeah Devers is the only player in that deal that the White Sox would probably want possibly Swihart, but remember they just drafted a C at 10 who could be up later in 2017. They don't want a 32 year old knuckleballer with 1 good season or a 26 year old SP with 4 major league innings.

Quintana will take on of the top 2 as the centerpiece.

If you're referring to Moncada or Benintendi, it's not happening. Benintendi has already shown his value and Moncada is a top two prospect in the MLB.

sager729
10-15-2016, 09:46 AM
And Quintana is a top 10 SP in baseball over the last 3 years. Stats back it up. Look what some of the starters have gone for in the last few years and look at the SP available this offseason.

You tell me what's a fair offer for Quintana in this market.

Green_Monster
10-15-2016, 10:19 AM
And Quintana is a top 10 SP in baseball over the last 3 years. Stats back it up. Look what some of the starters have gone for in the last few years and look at the SP available this offseason.

You tell me what's a fair offer for Quintana in this market.

You're not getting a top two prospect or a top ten (who's shown his talent at the MLB level) as the "main piece".

Sorry, but that's the truth. Devers can start a package and if the White Sox don't like it then move on. We're not desperate regardless of you overreacting to a 3 playoffs games. I'm fine with going with Price-Porcello-Wright-Rodriguez-Pomeranz.

The White Sox can hold onto Sale/Quintana until they're expiring and their value is limited. That's fine with me.

sager729
10-15-2016, 11:42 AM
I have a feeling you may be in for a surprise this offseason. If Benintendi or Moncada aren't in the deal, then the depth of the deal will be huge.

Green_Monster
10-15-2016, 11:48 AM
I have a feeling you may be in for a surprise this offseason. If Benintendi or Moncada aren't in the deal, then the depth of the deal will be huge.

There won't be a deal. If by some miracle there is, I guarantee you won't be getting Moncada/Benintendi/Betts/Bogaerts. Even Bradley Jr. I doubt considering he outplayed him and he's cheaper.

Devers+Rodriguez+Shaw+ is what I would offer. If the White Sox say no, whatever. Not a big deal.

sager729
10-15-2016, 01:47 PM
Only way the White Sox don't laugh Dombrowski off the phone IMO and I don't think it happens either way without a centerpiece (and Devers isn't a centerpiece) is if Kopech and Groome are added.

I don't think you understand the value that Sale or Quintana have right now.

Plus with the White Sox just watching Price be regular Piss down his leg Price in the playoffs, knowing Porcello isn't the pitcher he was this year and Steven Wright being a complete unknown, them and any team are going to look to take big time talent and Dombrowski is known to give it up.

sager729
10-15-2016, 01:48 PM
Devers, Rodriguez, Shaw is a pretty pathetic offer BTW

bagwell368
10-15-2016, 01:50 PM
There won't be a deal. If by some miracle there is, I guarantee you won't be getting Moncada/Benintendi/Betts/Bogaerts. Even Bradley Jr. I doubt considering he outplayed him and he's cheaper.

Devers+Rodriguez+Shaw+ is what I would offer. If the White Sox say no, whatever. Not a big deal.

To get Sale on that contract? Devers, JBJ and Rodriguez - and maybe get a spec thrown in. Shaw is a dime a dozen player.

Green_Monster
10-15-2016, 02:30 PM
Only way the White Sox don't laugh Dombrowski off the phone IMO and I don't think it happens either way without a centerpiece (and Devers isn't a centerpiece) is if Kopech and Groome are added.

I don't think you understand the value that Sale or Quintana have right now.

Plus with the White Sox just watching Price be regular Piss down his leg Price in the playoffs, knowing Porcello isn't the pitcher he was this year and Steven Wright being a complete unknown, them and any team are going to look to take big time talent and Dombrowski is known to give it up.

Adding Kopech and Groome is laughable.

So basically you take a pessimistic look at every Red Sox pitcher. Yeah... that's not how it works.

Devers is a top 15/20 prospect. If you don't think that's a centerpiece than you either think prospects across the league suck or you're a huge homer. Neither are good options, your choice.

Green_Monster
10-15-2016, 02:38 PM
Devers, Rodriguez, Shaw is a pretty pathetic offer BTW

Devers is a top 15/20 prospect and Rodriguez out-pitched Quintana in the second half. I'm not sure if you didn't pay attention this year or you are just refusing to acknowledge it. I'm perfectly fine with keeping Rodriguez. He's 23 and has great potential. Dombrowski and the front office know this as well. The only thing pathetic is your attachment to your players names.


To get Sale on that contract? Devers, JBJ and Rodriguez - and maybe get a spec thrown in. Shaw is a dime a dozen player.

I was referring to Quintana.

JBJ outplayed them both. Rodriguez out-pitched them both in the second half. Devers is a top 15/20 prospect. That's pretty steep. I'd rather stick with what we have and hope Rodriguez can put together a full year.

papipapsmanny
10-15-2016, 05:59 PM
I think Devers/E-Rod/Swihart/Dubon/Owens can get it done for Quintana

I'd settle for

Price
Porcello
Quintana
Wright
Pomeranz

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-15-2016, 07:50 PM
People in here do realize you have to give to get, right?

sager729
10-15-2016, 10:24 PM
No they don't. That's the problem. They don't understand market. Try looking at some other trades for SP in the last few years.

chomaru
10-15-2016, 10:58 PM
I'd rather put together a lesser package for Wade Davis than overpay for Quintana. The best bet for a legit SP is to be patient and wait for a team to become a motivated seller, at that point it's just a matter of having the best offer instead of this "We're going to need to start with your best 3 prospects" nonsense.

Green_Monster
10-16-2016, 12:29 AM
People in here do realize you have to give to get, right?

People need to realize we're not giving up players that outplayed the players we're trading for and then giving up top prospects on top of that. I guess we have different definitions of value.

People concerned with name value and those overreacting to a 3 game playoff series are the problem.

Green_Monster
10-16-2016, 12:32 AM
No they don't. That's the problem. They don't understand market. Try looking at some other trades for SP in the last few years.

Terrible trades from the past doesn't make present terrible trade ideas more realistic. I think that's where you're failing.

Green_Monster
10-16-2016, 02:16 PM
The Diamondbacks have hired Mike Hansen as their Executive Vice President and General Manager. Apparently Lovullo could follow him there.

The good news is that we kept Farrell.

RedSoxtober
10-17-2016, 09:31 AM
You're willing to give up on an a potential all-star because he struggled when he was double his most ever innings pitched?
While I appreciate the impact of the innings -- one of the caveats I mentioned at the time of the deal -- I am not sure that it's the whole picture. Pomeranz is HR-prone despite his GB tendencies. A weird mix to be sure but it's true. His HR/FB ratio is roughly 20% over MLB averages. That's worse than Shields if you want a benchmark. His Fenway numbers may always be a drag to his performance for the Sox (even if it's more 2B than HR).


Young guy from the NL. Patience.
Young is relative. He was probably brought up too quickly but now has a relatively long track record in MLB. He's Porcello circa 2014-15 offseason... but with softer dossier. It's a scary mix because it's almost impossible to say whether he got lucky, peaked, or finally harnessed his stuff.


What if you sign Chapman and then you could either flip Kimbrel to replenish the farm or you could dangle him alongside Panda while also eating about 30 mill.
Interesting idea. I'm not sure about the specifics but the overall concept of making him part of a more attractive package makes sense. I have a feeling that "Trade Panda" will be my new "Trade for Stanton" -- long anticipated but never executed.


Making a bad trade just because of a need is an action that can get you fired.

Price-Porcello-Wright-Rodriguez-Pomeranz is fine. Mixture of experience and potential.
I wish that I had your confidence in the rotation. Unfortunately, I don't.

Porcello, as sager mentions, could easily fallback to the 2/3 performance that has typified his career. I hope that he doesn't but it's quite possible.
Wright duplicating 2016 is far less likely; the track record for kuckleballers is pretty strong in favor of regression. Dickey, for example, broke out in 2012 and then became league average in almost every way imaginable. Wake ('95, '02, '09) similarly had some magical runs mixed with league-average fare. The trick pitch is great for a guy who can pitch forever at the back of the rotation (Wake, Niekro, and Wilhelm retired after 45) but not so much for a 2/3 type.
Pomeranz worries me a bit for the reasons mentioned above -- lack of track record and HR/FB numbers. Away from the canyons in the AL & NL West he could have trouble.
Rodriguez is, surprisingly, the guy that worries me the most. He has TOTR potential in his physical abilities but his tentative approach coming out of injury could be problematic. He could be, gulp, Clay.



You can suggest that this is unduly pessimistic and you'd probably be right. The chances that all four derail is low (though the chances of all four peaking was similarly low). I'll only suggest that this is the time of year to be somewhat pessimistic and plan for eventualities, or at the very least, to improve upon the biggest potential weaknesses.


Terrible trades from the past doesn't make present terrible trade ideas more realistic. I think that's where you're failing.
I tend to agree more with sager on this point. I don't think that he's being a homer nor do I think that he's pointing to any terrible trades. When the trade market produces a series of similar data points because of relative scarcity of a particular commodity -- SP in this case -- that simply is the cost of doing business. You seem to have more of a sense that trade value is an empirical thing but that is not true.

RedSoxtober
10-17-2016, 09:41 AM
sager how far would Rodriguez (or Pomeranz), JBJ, and Devers get with Quintana? Looks like your OF could use some help, Devers could be on track to replace Frazier (who suddenly looks old) at the end of his club controlled days, and Rodriguez could provide some future growth in the rotation.

For the home crowd, I would be okay to sell (high?) on JBJ's performance this year with AB moving to CF. Quintana would come in with a 1B/2A type track record which would certainly make the top 3 in the rotation more reliable. I could see Moncada in MLB as either a 3B or LF ONLY IF he decides to close the holes in his swing, trust his legs, and let his power develop more slowly.

celticsman2009
10-17-2016, 12:16 PM
Brock Holt and Trey Ball for Wade Davis.

Pittz
10-17-2016, 01:06 PM
While I appreciate the impact of the innings -- one of the caveats I mentioned at the time of the deal -- I am not sure that it's the whole picture. Pomeranz is HR-prone despite his GB tendencies. A weird mix to be sure but it's true. His HR/FB ratio is roughly 20% over MLB averages. That's worse than Shields if you want a benchmark. His Fenway numbers may always be a drag to his performance for the Sox (even if it's more 2B than HR).

I certainly recognize the potential red flags and concerns with Pomeranz in Fenway. He could absolutely end up busting with us. But, I would much rather see what Pomeranz is capable of in 2017 than dump him for a RP, that's crazy talk.

ruckus16969
10-17-2016, 03:58 PM
Brock Holt and Trey Ball for Wade Davis.

I'm on board lol

ruckus16969
10-17-2016, 04:21 PM
sager how far would Rodriguez (or Pomeranz), JBJ, and Devers get with Quintana? Looks like your OF could use some help, Devers could be on track to replace Frazier (who suddenly looks old) at the end of his club controlled days, and Rodriguez could provide some future growth in the rotation.

For the home crowd, I would be okay to sell (high?) on JBJ's performance this year with AB moving to CF. Quintana would come in with a 1B/2A type track record which would certainly make the top 3 in the rotation more reliable. I could see Moncada in MLB as either a 3B or LF ONLY IF he decides to close the holes in his swing, trust his legs, and let his power develop more slowly.


I think I would rather Sale. Although the loss of JBJ would be hit. I'd like to see AB play a while without getting hurt before we pencil him as our CF'r.

Also figure out how we are going to use Swihart. I'd personally like to see him catch. If he can get better defensively that would be the better position for him obviously.

We could always pick up a LF'R though. I wouldn't like Young there in an everyday roll. Maybe Shaw/Young platoon??

I wonder what it would take for Sale/Quintana and Robertson deal. BUCH, Pomerantz, JBJ, Groome, Devers, Marrero and Ball?

ruckus16969
10-17-2016, 04:22 PM
I'd check in with the Dodgers and see what we can get for Price and Sandoval. LOL

RedSoxtober
10-17-2016, 05:58 PM
In talking to some of the White Sox pro scouting personnel, it’s obvious who they like and would want back from the Red Sox to make this blockbuster a reality. The White Sox have always coveted Jackie Bradley Jr., and they would also have to get an elite prospect back such as Yoan Moncada and/or Rafael Devers. The Red Sox could make a deal for the following reasons: Andrew Benintendi has impressed enough that if he could become Boston’s center fielder to replace Bradley, Devers would likely stay at third base. Moncada could always move to left field if he’s not part of the deal. The Red Sox may also have the option of using Shaw in left field to add another lefthanded bat to the lineup.Boston Globe

RedSoxtober
10-17-2016, 06:01 PM
I certainly recognize the potential red flags and concerns with Pomeranz in Fenway. He could absolutely end up busting with us. But, I would much rather see what Pomeranz is capable of in 2017 than dump him for a RP, that's crazy talk.


I think I would rather Sale. Although the loss of JBJ would be hit. I'd like to see AB play a while without getting hurt before we pencil him as our CF'r.
I certainly wouldn't complain about Sale. There are reasons that I'd target Quintana first. Principally, more years of control and a CHEAP contract. The inexpensive contract would allow you to channel resources in other directions through 2021.

ruckus16969
10-17-2016, 08:01 PM
I certainly wouldn't complain about Sale. There are reasons that I'd target Quintana first. Principally, more years of control and a CHEAP contract. The inexpensive contract would allow you to channel resources in other directions through 2021.


I just like Sales attitude it would fit well here. Crazy guys kill it in Boston

Green_Monster
10-17-2016, 08:57 PM
I wish that I had your confidence in the rotation. Unfortunately, I don't.

Porcello, as sager mentions, could easily fallback to the 2/3 performance that has typified his career. I hope that he doesn't but it's quite possible.
Wright duplicating 2016 is far less likely; the track record for kuckleballers is pretty strong in favor of regression. Dickey, for example, broke out in 2012 and then became league average in almost every way imaginable. Wake ('95, '02, '09) similarly had some magical runs mixed with league-average fare. The trick pitch is great for a guy who can pitch forever at the back of the rotation (Wake, Niekro, and Wilhelm retired after 45) but not so much for a 2/3 type.
Pomeranz worries me a bit for the reasons mentioned above -- lack of track record and HR/FB numbers. Away from the canyons in the AL & NL West he could have trouble.
Rodriguez is, surprisingly, the guy that worries me the most. He has TOTR potential in his physical abilities but his tentative approach coming out of injury could be problematic. He could be, gulp, Clay.



You can suggest that this is unduly pessimistic and you'd probably be right. The chances that all four derail is low (though the chances of all four peaking was similarly low). I'll only suggest that this is the time of year to be somewhat pessimistic and plan for eventualities, or at the very least, to improve upon the biggest potential weaknesses.

Far too pessimistic. I could do the same thing with 25+ other teams rotations.


I tend to agree more with sager on this point. I don't think that he's being a homer nor do I think that he's pointing to any terrible trades. When the trade market produces a series of similar data points because of relative scarcity of a particular commodity -- SP in this case -- that simply is the cost of doing business. You seem to have more of a sense that trade value is an empirical thing but that is not true.

I understand the SP market is weak. That doesn't mean teams are going to say "**** it, let's make a terrible trade". Especially when the team has a solid rotation (if we don't go super pessimistic).

papipapsmanny
10-17-2016, 10:16 PM
Quintana is good but his low GB% worries me in Fenway and he doesn't K people like Sale.

JBJ, Devers, Brian Johnson, and Hembree for Sale.

I mean you can sell that, a Near 5 WAR 26 year old CF a top 25 prospect and two guys that can contribute for Sale who is a 5-6 WAR SP.

Benintendi in CF, Swihart/Young in LF, keep holt in the super utility role.

sager729
10-18-2016, 12:43 AM
sager how far would Rodriguez (or Pomeranz), JBJ, and Devers get with Quintana? Looks like your OF could use some help, Devers could be on track to replace Frazier (who suddenly looks old) at the end of his club controlled days, and Rodriguez could provide some future growth in the rotation.

For the home crowd, I would be okay to sell (high?) on JBJ's performance this year with AB moving to CF. Quintana would come in with a 1B/2A type track record which would certainly make the top 3 in the rotation more reliable. I could see Moncada in MLB as either a 3B or LF ONLY IF he decides to close the holes in his swing, trust his legs, and let his power develop more slowly.

Honestly from everything I've heard, I don't think it gets the deal done, but it would have the White Sox thinking. I think Kopech would have to be in the deal and I've talked to multiple baseball people with sources who say the Sox want JBJ and one of Moncada/Benintendi (RS obviously want to keep Benintendi) along with 2 pitchers.

Whoever said add Robertson to the deal is something I've mentioned multiple times. I think this would be interesting.

sager729
10-18-2016, 12:48 AM
Quintana is good but his low GB% worries me in Fenway and he doesn't K people like Sale.

JBJ, Devers, Brian Johnson, and Hembree for Sale.

I mean you can sell that, a Near 5 WAR 26 year old CF a top 25 prospect and two guys that can contribute for Sale who is a 5-6 WAR SP.

Benintendi in CF, Swihart/Young in LF, keep holt in the super utility role.

Sorry Papi, but this doesn't even get you close to Sale or Quintana.

sager729
10-18-2016, 12:51 AM
sager how far would Rodriguez (or Pomeranz), JBJ, and Devers get with Quintana? Looks like your OF could use some help, Devers could be on track to replace Frazier (who suddenly looks old) at the end of his club controlled days, and Rodriguez could provide some future growth in the rotation.

For the home crowd, I would be okay to sell (high?) on JBJ's performance this year with AB moving to CF. Quintana would come in with a 1B/2A type track record which would certainly make the top 3 in the rotation more reliable. I could see Moncada in MLB as either a 3B or LF ONLY IF he decides to close the holes in his swing, trust his legs, and let his power develop more slowly.


I think I would rather Sale. Although the loss of JBJ would be hit. I'd like to see AB play a while without getting hurt before we pencil him as our CF'r.

Also figure out how we are going to use Swihart. I'd personally like to see him catch. If he can get better defensively that would be the better position for him obviously.

We could always pick up a LF'R though. I wouldn't like Young there in an everyday roll. Maybe Shaw/Young platoon??

I wonder what it would take for Sale/Quintana and Robertson deal. BUCH, Pomerantz, JBJ, Groome, Devers, Marrero and Ball?

I like your thinking adding Robertson in the deal, but that deal is awful. The White wouldn't want Buch for sure considering he makes the same amount as Sale, definitely don't want Pomeranz, Trey Ball isn't that great a prospect any more and Deven Marrero isn't either. JBJ, Groome and Devers is a nice start though.

sager729
10-18-2016, 12:54 AM
I'm just going off what people who have been around the situation on both sides have told me. (beat writers and national writers). The rightfully so want a huge return on either pitcher. It may actually take more than we're talking.

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 07:57 AM
Sorry Papi, but this doesn't even get you close to Sale or Quintana.

Then nothing will get done. JBJ outplayed them both and is cheaper and younger. Then you add a top 25 prospect. Sorry, nothing is getting done if the White Sox want more than that.

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 07:58 AM
I like your thinking adding Robertson in the deal, but that deal is awful. The White wouldn't want Buch for sure considering he makes the same amount as Sale, definitely don't want Pomeranz, Trey Ball isn't that great a prospect any more and Deven Marrero isn't either. JBJ, Groome and Devers is a nice start though.

That's a nice start to ending all trade discussions.

sager729
10-18-2016, 08:24 AM
Dude just stop. These aren't even your posts that I commented on. I get it, you think it should be Panda and Bucholz for Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Robertson. Hell do you want Adam Eaton too.

sager729
10-18-2016, 08:25 AM
You literally just keep saying the same things.

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 09:32 AM
Dude just stop. These aren't even your posts that I commented on. I get it, you think it should be Panda and Bucholz for Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Robertson. Hell do you want Adam Eaton too.

I've actually made valid points on why I think you're expecting too much for Quintana.

All you've done is say "dude stop", "that's nowhere close", "I have sources", and "your offer is pathetic". So, congratulations to you on accomplishing nothing.

Side note, why can no one spell Buchholz?

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 09:33 AM
You literally just keep saying the same things.

Ditto.

"Your offer is pathetic."
"That's nowhere close."

RedSoxtober
10-18-2016, 03:34 PM
Honestly from everything I've heard, I don't think it gets the deal done, but it would have the White Sox thinking. I think Kopech would have to be in the deal and I've talked to multiple baseball people with sources who say the Sox want JBJ and one of Moncada/Benintendi (RS obviously want to keep Benintendi) along with 2 pitchers.

Whoever said add Robertson to the deal is something I've mentioned multiple times. I think this would be interesting.

Thanks. I wasn't necessarily thinking that it would be enough to get a deal done but wasn't sure how far off it would be. I've suggested a bigger deal for Quintana/Robertson in the past so I could get into that but the cost could obviously be prohibitive.

RedSoxtober
10-18-2016, 04:12 PM
Far too pessimistic. I could do the same thing with 25+ other teams rotations.
Agree to disagree with you. I realize that my view is pessimistic but "far too pessimistic"? I don't think so. The rotation is not nearly as good as you're making it out to be IMO. It is better than what I've suggested as the down side as well and I can easily acknowledge that. The biggest thing to understand is that there are very real question marks surrounding literally every pitcher on the Red Sox staff (if you factor in the 800 pound elephant of Price's playoff history). The same is not nearly as true for the positional players outside the catching spot.

As I said, this is the time of year to be concerned with worst-case scenarios in order to understand where to allocate resources in order to mitigate problems.


I understand the SP market is weak. That doesn't mean teams are going to say "**** it, let's make a terrible trade". Especially when the team has a solid rotation (if we don't go super pessimistic).
A weak market means that the relative values of resources has gone up. This market is weak overall but the pitching is especially weak, so values will be even higher for pitchers than position players. Prices that YOU consider to have been stupid in the past could be normal -- even low -- this offseason.


Then nothing will get done. JBJ outplayed them both and is cheaper and younger. Then you add a top 25 prospect. Sorry, nothing is getting done if the White Sox want more than that.

Could you provide some context for this comment? By "them" are you talking about JBJ outperforming Quintana and Sale? FG WAR, at least, suggests that you're wrong on that count (JBJ 4.8, Q 4.8, S 5.2). I personally think that it's asking a lot to bank on his breakout season saying that he's "better" than guys who've averaged greater WAR over the last three years than he earned in 2016. A big part of it is that his oWAR was driven heavily by the period from Apr 20 - June 11 (includes the hitting streak, 15 2B, 4 3B, 10HR); the rest of his season was relatively pedestrian by comparison.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-18-2016, 05:31 PM
lol kill this narrative that JBJ outplayed Sale and Quintana. One of the two is one of the front runners for the Cy Young for christsake.

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 06:11 PM
Agree to disagree with you. I realize that my view is pessimistic but "far too pessimistic"? I don't think so. The rotation is not nearly as good as you're making it out to be IMO. It is better than what I've suggested as the down side as well and I can easily acknowledge that. The biggest thing to understand is that there are very real question marks surrounding literally every pitcher on the Red Sox staff (if you factor in the 800 pound elephant of Price's playoff history). The same is not nearly as true for the positional players outside the catching spot.

As I said, this is the time of year to be concerned with worst-case scenarios in order to understand where to allocate resources in order to mitigate problems.

Like I said, you can do that with most teams. Agree to disagree.


A weak market means that the relative values of resources has gone up. This market is weak overall but the pitching is especially weak, so values will be even higher for pitchers than position players. Prices that YOU consider to have been stupid in the past could be normal -- even low -- this offseason.

Yes, I just said I understand that the SP market is weak. The doesn't make a bad trade any less bad. It means you're making a bad trade in a weak market because your options are limited.


Could you provide some context for this comment? By "them" are you talking about JBJ outperforming Quintana and Sale? FG WAR, at least, suggests that you're wrong on that count (JBJ 4.8, Q 4.8, S 5.2). I personally think that it's asking a lot to bank on his breakout season saying that he's "better" than guys who've averaged greater WAR over the last three years than he earned in 2016. A big part of it is that his oWAR was driven heavily by the period from Apr 20 - June 11 (includes the hitting streak, 15 2B, 4 3B, 10HR); the rest of his season was relatively pedestrian by comparison.

I never said he was better lol. I said he outplayed them. BR WAR, (JBJ 5.3, Quintana 5.2, Sale 4.9). At a fraction of the price and younger.

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 06:12 PM
lol kill this narrative that JBJ outplayed Sale and Quintana. One of the two is one of the front runners for the Cy Young for christsake.

Let's not look at statistics and instead at potential awards, okay.

papipapsmanny
10-18-2016, 10:00 PM
Sorry Papi, but this doesn't even get you close to Sale or Quintana.

Explain logically why not? You get a guy who is a little younger than them that just put up similar WAR numbers to them, then you get a top 25 prospect. A Serviceable reliver, and an SP that can possibly contribute at the MLB level right now.

You don't get large packages when talented proven MLB talent is also coming back your way. That isn't how it works.

Now if you want to argue the need because of Eaton that is a logical argument, but to say the value isn't there... then I don't see the logic

RedSoxtober
10-18-2016, 10:19 PM
I never said he was better lol. I said he outplayed them. BR WAR, (JBJ 5.3, Quintana 5.2, Sale 4.9). At a fraction of the price and younger.
A couple of thoughts on this, then. You seemed to say that the proposed deals were DOA because JBJ outperformed the two pitchers but here you clearly don't think that he's better. Doesn't that erode the force of the argument?

I'll also suggest that the discrepancy between FG WAR and BR WAR might be cause enough to say that there's no clear-cut case to be made for any of them outperforming any other of them. Similarly, I don't think that a year's difference (Quintana/Sale played their age 27 season; JBJ age 26) is that much of a big deal.

At the end of the day I really don't think that a slam dunk case has been made shutting down sager's (informed) opinion of value.

(As an aside, as a TM you need to get to know who the "good guys" are in other forums; sager is one of them not only in terms of conduct but of constructive dialog).

Green_Monster
10-18-2016, 11:06 PM
A couple of thoughts on this, then. You seemed to say that the proposed deals were DOA because JBJ outperformed the two pitchers but here you clearly don't think that he's better. Doesn't that erode the force of the argument?

One year doesn't make him better already. It does show his value though. JBJ wouldn't be the only piece which is why this is a "pass" for me and likely for the Red Sox as well if that's the price.


I'll also suggest that the discrepancy between FG WAR and BR WAR might be cause enough to say that there's no clear-cut case to be made for any of them outperforming any other of them. Similarly, I don't think that a year's difference (Quintana/Sale played their age 27 season; JBJ age 26) is that much of a big deal.

I'll take a younger, cheaper CF over a SP any day if the performance is close.


At the end of the day I really don't think that a slam dunk case has been made shutting down sager's (informed) opinion of value.

Eh, it's whatever. I'm just saying that JBJ + Benintendi/Moncada + isn't happening. Because, well, it isn't. I usually stay away from those statements because it's so easy to be wrong. Although, when they're obvious I feel confident in saying them.


(As an aside, as a TM you need to get to know who the "good guys" are in other forums; sager is one of them not only in terms of conduct but of constructive dialog).

I quit as a TM.

soxer04
10-18-2016, 11:26 PM
What if you sign Chapman and then you could either flip Kimbrel to replenish the farm or you could dangle him alongside Panda while also eating about 30 mill.

I love this idea. I'd prefer a flip too. Not sure DD would go ahead with it after he gave up four prospects for Kimbrel.

I'm with lavigne, greene and pitts - I'm fine with our starters (as long as Wright is healthy) and I'm extremely anxious to see what ERod can become. As currently situated, I think we need 6 starters too. Three have innings issues and hopefully Wright's shoulder is okay.

I'm interested in a catcher- Lucroy - but don't know what the asking price would be if he becomes available. I don't want the big salary of EE that will fill only one position.

I want to come as close as possible of filling 4 positions:
1-- A better closer. Kimbrel with his 5 walks per 9 innings - I expect he'll bounce back but if he could pitch that wild, he scares me in big games. So as you say-- let's go and get Chapman, and flip Kimbrel.

2-- A rh bat that can play 1st and 3rd. Can Pearce do it?

3-- A catcher that isn't a bad hitter but also isn't a bad defender. Maybe we have it-- but DD sure did seem to push Swihart away quickly along with Leon struggled mightily as the season progresses and Vaz hasn't shown he can hit.

What do you think of Ramos? He wouldn't be available much at all to catch early on but if surgery is successful he can hit a bit as a DH. Then as season progresses he would catch more and more. He'd be a risk but not a $20m player. We'd get him maybe for a bargain. I'm not advocating it-- because I don't know about the injury -- nobody does which is why there is risk. I just like catchers that can play good defense and hit.

sager729
10-19-2016, 07:58 AM
Ok Green Monster let's look at it this way. The last 3 seasons.

Jackie Bradley Jr. - 7.8 fWAR (37th among OF)
Chris Sale - 16.6 fWAR (5th among SP)
Jose Quintana - 14.6 fWAR (8th among SP)

What does this tell you?

sager729
10-19-2016, 08:10 AM
Honestly from everything I've heard, I don't think it gets the deal done, but it would have the White Sox thinking. I think Kopech would have to be in the deal and I've talked to multiple baseball people with sources who say the Sox want JBJ and one of Moncada/Benintendi (RS obviously want to keep Benintendi) along with 2 pitchers.

Whoever said add Robertson to the deal is something I've mentioned multiple times. I think this would be interesting.

Thanks. I wasn't necessarily thinking that it would be enough to get a deal done but wasn't sure how far off it would be. I've suggested a bigger deal for Quintana/Robertson in the past so I could get into that but the cost could obviously be prohibitive.

Yeah it's a nice starting point, we'll have to see how where the market stands. Because the market could get worse still and drive prices up. Honestly, I talked to someone who is a national writer and he said the Red Sox pitching in the playoffs will cause prices for them to go up for pitching. Teams saw that and will use it against them. Especially with Price continuing to do what he does in the postseason.

But the Red Sox do have a very good farm and the money to spend to get any player in baseball.

sager729
10-19-2016, 08:13 AM
Also, I'm not just saying this for the White Sox, if the Red Sox go to the A's for Sonny Gray or the Rays for Chris Archer, they are going to hear the same things.

sager729
10-19-2016, 08:29 AM
Sorry Papi, but this doesn't even get you close to Sale or Quintana.

Explain logically why not? You get a guy who is a little younger than them that just put up similar WAR numbers to them, then you get a top 25 prospect. A Serviceable reliver, and an SP that can possibly contribute at the MLB level right now.

You don't get large packages when talented proven MLB talent is also coming back your way. That isn't how it works.

Now if you want to argue the need because of Eaton that is a logical argument, but to say the value isn't there... then I don't see the logic

Ok here is the deal you proposed.

JBJ, Devers, Brian Johnson, and Hembree for Sale.

Ok first off I guarantee Sale will have 2 of these 3 for the White Sox to deal him (JBJ, Moncada, Benintendi). So with that said.

Ok JBJ is a good start, Devers is a nice piece to a package, but honestly with the market, he's probably a third piece. Brian Johnson will be 26 when the season starts and his numbers in AAA this year were ugly, he had over 4 BB/9. He's not part of any deal. Hembree is a 28 year old RP who is literally replacement level over his 94 IP in the majors. The White Sox have a nice group of young RP coming that would make his acquisition pointless.

So again, you only have 2 pieces to a deal and the Sox are looking for 5 for Sale in this market.

sager729
10-19-2016, 08:30 AM
Also, papiismanny, get off GM's they put up similar WAR numbers this season look at the last three seasons then get back to me.

Green_Monster
10-19-2016, 08:36 AM
Ok Green Monster let's look at it this way. The last 3 seasons.

Jackie Bradley Jr. - 7.8 fWAR (37th among OF)
Chris Sale - 16.6 fWAR (5th among SP)
Jose Quintana - 14.6 fWAR (8th among SP)

What does this tell you?

That tells me you're going three seasons deep with a guy who just completed his first full MLB season.

Green_Monster
10-19-2016, 08:42 AM
Ok here is the deal you proposed.

JBJ, Devers, Brian Johnson, and Hembree for Sale.

Ok first off I guarantee Sale will have 2 of these 3 for the White Sox to deal him (JBJ, Moncada, Benintendi). So with that said.

Ok JBJ is a good start, Devers is a nice piece to a package, but honestly with the market, he's probably a third piece. Brian Johnson will be 26 when the season starts and his numbers in AAA this year were ugly, he had over 4 BB/9. He's not part of any deal. Hembree is a 28 year old RP who is literally replacement level over his 94 IP in the majors. The White Sox have a nice group of young RP coming that would make his acquisition pointless.

So again, you only have 2 pieces to a deal and the Sox are looking for 5 for Sale in this market.

A top 25 prospect is not a third piece when you're asking for five pieces.

celticsman2009
10-19-2016, 10:00 AM
@Greenmonster

First off, I like JBJ alot. I'm glad he was able to put together a solid season finally. But to say you'd rather have a good CF over a top 10 pitcher in the MLB is sorta insane. The sox lack pitching, TOTR pitching. If you can acquire Sale, while including JBJ, you do it in a heartbeat. Just my opinion. Don't kill me.....

Green_Monster
10-19-2016, 10:08 AM
@Greenmonster

First off, I like JBJ alot. I'm glad he was able to put together a solid season finally. But to say you'd rather have a good CF over a top 10 pitcher in the MLB is sorta insane. The sox lack pitching, TOTR pitching. If you can acquire Sale, while including JBJ, you do it in a heartbeat. Just my opinion. Don't kill me.....

I didn't say I'd take JBJ over Quintana or Sale.

I said all things equal, including performance, I'd take the CF over the SP all day. This isn't an all things equal situation though.

Edit: Looking back I can see how you'd think I was talking about this specific situation. To clarify, I wasn't. I was just throwing out CF vs SP as an example.

RedSoxtober
10-19-2016, 10:12 AM
Ok here is the deal you proposed.

JBJ, Devers, Brian Johnson, and Hembree for Sale.

Ok first off I guarantee Sale will have 2 of these 3 for the White Sox to deal him (JBJ, Moncada, Benintendi). So with that said.

Ok JBJ is a good start, Devers is a nice piece to a package, but honestly with the market, he's probably a third piece. Brian Johnson will be 26 when the season starts and his numbers in AAA this year were ugly, he had over 4 BB/9. He's not part of any deal. Hembree is a 28 year old RP who is literally replacement level over his 94 IP in the majors. The White Sox have a nice group of young RP coming that would make his acquisition pointless.

So again, you only have 2 pieces to a deal and the Sox are looking for 5 for Sale in this market.

I don't agree with you on this for a couple of reasons. First, I think that it's missing the mark to target a specific number of players. I think that that's different than looking for a level of value. A package of five minor leaguers is obviously different than four major leaguers. Second, I think you may need a little background on some of the guys. You may still be right that the package is not worth Sale or Quintana (it probably isn't) but the add-ons are a bit better than you acknowledge.

Devers, as mentioned is a top 25 prospect. He started slowly but may have finished the season (May thru Aug) as the best hitter in the minors. He is well regarded enough that he could be a lead guy in many deals.

Johnson was injured and struggled with anxiety similar to Greinke during the early part of 2016. After time in XST he finished looking like the guy who pushed into some cameo starts in 2015. He's probably no better than an innings-eating #5 going forward. While that's not fantastic value, it's certainly better than his 2016 line suggests.

Hembree is more than replacement level. This is another disagreement between FG (cumulative 0.1) and BR (1.2). Hembree missed significant time due to injury (2015) just as he was on a roll that would have landed him in MLB so his slow start could be misleading. He's got a big-time strikeout ability but sometimes loses control. I've been a little frustrated with him in that he's been streaky as a RP.

I agree overall that the package is short of Sale or Quintana. I think the pieces are a bit better than you may realize (I don't know crap about the CWS system so that makes sense). Even if my more favorable assessment is correct, though, the package is missing a stronger element.

I also agree that you will not get two of JBJ, Benintendi, and Moncada. If that's a requirement for CWS then the Sox will go shopping elsewhere. The Mets, for example, still seem to be suffering for sustained offense and have a broader portfolio of SP to deal from.

sager729
10-19-2016, 12:02 PM
Ok Green Monster let's look at it this way. The last 3 seasons.

Jackie Bradley Jr. - 7.8 fWAR (37th among OF)
Chris Sale - 16.6 fWAR (5th among SP)
Jose Quintana - 14.6 fWAR (8th among SP)

What does this tell you?

That tells me you're going three seasons deep with a guy who just completed his first full MLB season.

Exactly my point. It tells you something about JBJ that after getting 400+ ABs in 2014 at 24 years old, he clearly wasn't ready and the sent him back to AAA. He's 26 already and just had his first really good season that was pumped up due to an insane hitting streak and a very high BABIP 3 out of the first 4 months.

Quintana and Sale have a continued streak of success and are nearly the same age.

sager729
10-19-2016, 12:20 PM
Then they will have to go shopping somewhere else but if you think other teams won't do the same thing for lesser pitchers, you're wrong. Everybody saw the playoffs with Price and Porcello getting hit and having to throw Bucholz in game 3.

Sale will cost the Red Sox two of 3 I mentioned if he's traded I believe. I'd probably say JBJ and Moncada. I personally don't think the White Sox will trade Sale. I think it will be Quintana and he will cost just as much as Sale in talks.

As far as those players. Hembree is a 28 year old RP with a 7.8 K/9 and a very low 33 GB%. Brian Johnson doesn't stand out at all. I've read reports on him and looked at his stats. Not really a strike out pitcher. Has only gone over 100 innings once in a season. He would have to work his way up to a full 200 inning season and then he's probably not even good enough to get to 200 innings.

As for Devers, I know and have watched Devers play. He's really good and has a bright future. I said he's a third piece in a Sale deal because I believe two of the 3 also come. Devers knock is defensively where most expect him to end up at 1B which knocks him down some. Still very young at just 20 but a ton of upside.

Pittz
10-19-2016, 01:09 PM
The narrative that pitching was our downfall in the playoffs is silly, our offense got us swept. Did our SP struggle a bit? Sure. Will three starts dictate our offseason? That'd be the sign of a terribly run team.

celticsman2009
10-19-2016, 02:42 PM
I didn't say I'd take JBJ over Quintana or Sale.

I said all things equal, including performance, I'd take the CF over the SP all day. This isn't an all things equal situation though.

Edit: Looking back I can see how you'd think I was talking about this specific situation. To clarify, I wasn't. I was just throwing out CF vs SP as an example.


Fair enough. Throwing out names, if you could have a TOTR pitcher or starting CF, would you really still pick the CF?

Kevin Pillar is the CF for Toronto. Would you rather have Pillar at CF or lets say Cueto as a TOTR pitcher?

Green_Monster
10-19-2016, 03:29 PM
Exactly my point. It tells you something about JBJ that after getting 400+ ABs in 2014 at 24 years old, he clearly wasn't ready and the sent him back to AAA. He's 26 already and just had his first really good season that was pumped up due to an insane hitting streak and a very high BABIP 3 out of the first 4 months.

Quintana and Sale have a continued streak of success and are nearly the same age.

It tells me that he was rushed. That's about it.

He was close to a 5 WAR player last year too if you put it over a full season.

Green_Monster
10-19-2016, 03:36 PM
Then they will have to go shopping somewhere else but if you think other teams won't do the same thing for lesser pitchers, you're wrong. Everybody saw the playoffs with Price and Porcello getting hit and having to throw Bucholz in game 3.

Sale will cost the Red Sox two of 3 I mentioned if he's traded I believe. I'd probably say JBJ and Moncada. I personally don't think the White Sox will trade Sale. I think it will be Quintana and he will cost just as much as Sale in talks.

As far as those players. Hembree is a 28 year old RP with a 7.8 K/9 and a very low 33 GB%. Brian Johnson doesn't stand out at all. I've read reports on him and looked at his stats. Not really a strike out pitcher. Has only gone over 100 innings once in a season. He would have to work his way up to a full 200 inning season and then he's probably not even good enough to get to 200 innings.

As for Devers, I know and have watched Devers play. He's really good and has a bright future. I said he's a third piece in a Sale deal because I believe two of the 3 also come. Devers knock is defensively where most expect him to end up at 1B which knocks him down some. Still very young at just 20 but a ton of upside.

A three game sample size doesn't change anything. I'm not sure why you keep throwing that out. If someone brought that up to Dombrowski, they'd be laughed off the phone.


The narrative that pitching was our downfall in the playoffs is silly, our offense got us swept. Did our SP struggle a bit? Sure. Will three starts dictate our offseason? That'd be the sign of a terribly run team.

This.


Fair enough. Throwing out names, if you could have a TOTR pitcher or starting CF, would you really still pick the CF?

Kevin Pillar is the CF for Toronto. Would you rather have Pillar at CF or lets say Cueto as a TOTR pitcher?

Pillar has OPS'ed .583, .692, .713, and .679 since coming into the league. Even with very good defense, that's underwhelming.

Cueto is a good amount better, so the performances don't match up.

RedSoxtober
10-19-2016, 04:27 PM
The narrative that pitching was our downfall in the playoffs is silly, our offense got us swept. Did our SP struggle a bit? Sure. Will three starts dictate our offseason? That'd be the sign of a terribly run team.
Very good point. The Sox gave up too many runs (5R/G) to the Indians but they still had the winning run at the plate in the 8th AND 9th innings of the two one-run games. In three of those half innings had the tying run in scoring position. This is something that you could counter-argue all day long (if the SP had done a better job then their 3 and 4 run games could have stood up as they have for CLE in the ALCS) but it's pretty clear that we didn't lose a bunch of 6-0 games like Price's ALDS start. The Sox got to the playoffs because they beat the crap out of other teams; their record in games scoring less than 4ER or less as pretty bad and that's exactly what caught up to them in the ALDS.

I would guess that the reason the narrative is so strong is that it was Porcello and Price giving up a lot of runs early. True to his nature, Farrell sat on his hands while things imploded. I think that we'll continue to regret not jettisoning that guy and keeping Torey when we had the chance.


It tells me that he was rushed. That's about it.

He was close to a 5 WAR player last year too if you put it over a full season.

Playing devil's advocate (a) he wasn't ready to be an MLB player for more than half a season and (b) that 5-WAR pace was buoyed substantially by another ridiculous hot streak. The streakiness is dangerous. I agree with the sentiment above -- I'd rather have a 5-WAR pitcher than a 5-WAR CF, all the more when the CF is streaky.

My biggest concern about JBJ is that he's not really streaky but VERY slow to make adjustments. Both 2015 and 2016 featured insane early hot streaks followed by equal or longer cold streaks to end the season. It may very well indicate that he doesn't adjust when pitchers and scouting reports figure out how to exploit his latest weakness.

BoSox47
10-20-2016, 12:31 PM
Then they will have to go shopping somewhere else but if you think other teams won't do the same thing for lesser pitchers, you're wrong. Everybody saw the playoffs with Price and Porcello getting hit and having to throw Bucholz in game 3.

Sale will cost the Red Sox two of 3 I mentioned if he's traded I believe. I'd probably say JBJ and Moncada. I personally don't think the White Sox will trade Sale. I think it will be Quintana and he will cost just as much as Sale in talks.

As far as those players. Hembree is a 28 year old RP with a 7.8 K/9 and a very low 33 GB%. Brian Johnson doesn't stand out at all. I've read reports on him and looked at his stats. Not really a strike out pitcher. Has only gone over 100 innings once in a season. He would have to work his way up to a full 200 inning season and then he's probably not even good enough to get to 200 innings.

As for Devers, I know and have watched Devers play. He's really good and has a bright future. I said he's a third piece in a Sale deal because I believe two of the 3 also come. Devers knock is defensively where most expect him to end up at 1B which knocks him down some. Still very young at just 20 but a ton of upside.

Devers defense has been much improved over the past few seasons. He won the Boston Red Sox organization minor league defensive player of the year. Not saying that he is going to be a gold glove, but he has improved since coming into the organizaiton.

RedSoxtober
10-20-2016, 04:27 PM
One of the key figures from the 2016 Red Sox season is leaving the organization.
WEEI.com has learned that Dan Dyrek, who has been the team’s coordinator of sports medicine service since after the 2012 season, will not be returning for 2017. The 63-year-old had asked the Red Sox not to extend him a contract offer at the completion of the ’16 season, having his term coincide with the completion of David Ortiz’s retirement.

One of the most well-respected physical therapists in all of sports, Dyrek’s key contribution since assuming his role with the Red Sox involved Ortiz. He was credited by both the player and the organization as perhaps the most important element in keeping the designated hitter on the field after Ortiz suffered a career-threatening heel injury in 2012.

Dyrek’s presence was deemed so important by the slugger that Ortiz requested ownership allow the physical therapist to travel with the team for all road games over the last few months.weei.com

RedSoxtober
10-20-2016, 04:29 PM
Devers defense has been much improved over the past few seasons. He won the Boston Red Sox organization minor league defensive player of the year. Not saying that he is going to be a gold glove, but he has improved since coming into the organizaiton.

+1. I believe Keith Law noted the significant improvement with comments that his anticipated move to 1B may no longer be required.

papipapsmanny
10-20-2016, 05:43 PM
I don't agree with you on this for a couple of reasons. First, I think that it's missing the mark to target a specific number of players. I think that that's different than looking for a level of value. A package of five minor leaguers is obviously different than four major leaguers. Second, I think you may need a little background on some of the guys. You may still be right that the package is not worth Sale or Quintana (it probably isn't) but the add-ons are a bit better than you acknowledge.

Devers, as mentioned is a top 25 prospect. He started slowly but may have finished the season (May thru Aug) as the best hitter in the minors. He is well regarded enough that he could be a lead guy in many deals.

Johnson was injured and struggled with anxiety similar to Greinke during the early part of 2016. After time in XST he finished looking like the guy who pushed into some cameo starts in 2015. He's probably no better than an innings-eating #5 going forward. While that's not fantastic value, it's certainly better than his 2016 line suggests.

Hembree is more than replacement level. This is another disagreement between FG (cumulative 0.1) and BR (1.2). Hembree missed significant time due to injury (2015) just as he was on a roll that would have landed him in MLB so his slow start could be misleading. He's got a big-time strikeout ability but sometimes loses control. I've been a little frustrated with him in that he's been streaky as a RP.

I agree overall that the package is short of Sale or Quintana. I think the pieces are a bit better than you may realize (I don't know crap about the CWS system so that makes sense). Even if my more favorable assessment is correct, though, the package is missing a stronger element.

I also agree that you will not get two of JBJ, Benintendi, and Moncada. If that's a requirement for CWS then the Sox will go shopping elsewhere. The Mets, for example, still seem to be suffering for sustained offense and have a broader portfolio of SP to deal from.

Deals usually involve all sorts of pieces. That proposed deal was a pretty damn good cost controlled CF, a top 25 prospect and two pieces that can contribute at the MLB level. If I were to add a 5th player to that deal it would be someone line Roniel Raudes. A real productive 18 year old in low A this past year.

sager729
10-21-2016, 08:14 AM
Devers defense has been much improved over the past few seasons. He won the Boston Red Sox organization minor league defensive player of the year. Not saying that he is going to be a gold glove, but he has improved since coming into the organizaiton.

+1. I believe Keith Law noted the significant improvement with comments that his anticipated move to 1B may no longer be required.

I missed that. Well that is good. I like Devers as a player.

sager729
10-21-2016, 08:19 AM
I don't agree with you on this for a couple of reasons. First, I think that it's missing the mark to target a specific number of players. I think that that's different than looking for a level of value. A package of five minor leaguers is obviously different than four major leaguers. Second, I think you may need a little background on some of the guys. You may still be right that the package is not worth Sale or Quintana (it probably isn't) but the add-ons are a bit better than you acknowledge.

Devers, as mentioned is a top 25 prospect. He started slowly but may have finished the season (May thru Aug) as the best hitter in the minors. He is well regarded enough that he could be a lead guy in many deals.

Johnson was injured and struggled with anxiety similar to Greinke during the early part of 2016. After time in XST he finished looking like the guy who pushed into some cameo starts in 2015. He's probably no better than an innings-eating #5 going forward. While that's not fantastic value, it's certainly better than his 2016 line suggests.

Hembree is more than replacement level. This is another disagreement between FG (cumulative 0.1) and BR (1.2). Hembree missed significant time due to injury (2015) just as he was on a roll that would have landed him in MLB so his slow start could be misleading. He's got a big-time strikeout ability but sometimes loses control. I've been a little frustrated with him in that he's been streaky as a RP.

I agree overall that the package is short of Sale or Quintana. I think the pieces are a bit better than you may realize (I don't know crap about the CWS system so that makes sense). Even if my more favorable assessment is correct, though, the package is missing a stronger element.

I also agree that you will not get two of JBJ, Benintendi, and Moncada. If that's a requirement for CWS then the Sox will go shopping elsewhere. The Mets, for example, still seem to be suffering for sustained offense and have a broader portfolio of SP to deal from.

Deals usually involve all sorts of pieces. That proposed deal was a pretty damn good cost controlled CF, a top 25 prospect and two pieces that can contribute at the MLB level. If I were to add a 5th player to that deal it would be someone line Roniel Raudes. A real productive 18 year old in low A this past year.

But not for a top 5 SP in the game with 3 years left on a ridiculously cheap contract in an offseason where the best SP is Rich Hill.

AI
10-21-2016, 10:56 AM
Most I'd do for Sale is probably JBJ, Devers and Pomeranz.

sager729
10-21-2016, 01:04 PM
Well then you just don't want him.

Green_Monster
10-21-2016, 01:28 PM
Well then you just don't want him.

No, we just don't want to overpay. The White Sox can keep him and go under .500 again, we don't care. You keep pushing this like it's our only option. Well, it isn't.

We'll keep our CF who will likely be in a range of only 1/2 WAR behind Sale/Quintana and possibly even closer than that next year. We'll keep our top 25 prospect who ended the year incredibly. We'll keep our SP with top of the rotation potential.

Pittz
10-21-2016, 03:23 PM
Am i the only one who thinks Bautista may be the more appealing choice for DH than E5? Edwin is certainly going to command more money and more years, and I think transitioning to DH should help keep Bautista healthy and productive.

MagicBucsSox
10-21-2016, 03:32 PM
Tigers willing to listen on trade talks for anyone , even Miguel Cabrera.

Pittz
10-21-2016, 03:35 PM
Tigers willing to listen on trade talks for anyone , even Miguel Cabrera.

$28 mil in 2017, $30 mil '18-'21, $32 mil '22-'23.

Yikes.

I would love to watch him in a Red Sox uniform, absolutely no doubt about that. Far too much money for an aging DH though, unless the Tigers eat some of it.

papipapsmanny
10-21-2016, 09:16 PM
But not for a top 5 SP in the game with 3 years left on a ridiculously cheap contract in an offseason where the best SP is Rich Hill.

Its pretty straight forward though. No one gets a 4-5 WAR cost controlled CF + a large package for a 5-6 WAR pitcher.

MagicBucsSox
10-21-2016, 10:21 PM
$28 mil in 2017, $30 mil '18-'21, $32 mil '22-'23.

Yikes.

I would love to watch him in a Red Sox uniform, absolutely no doubt about that. Far too much money for an aging DH though, unless the Tigers eat some of it.
Yea, but idk how much cheaper Jose or E5 than him and they're not nearly as talented at the plate than him. I know we tried to get him in Miami.

sager729
10-22-2016, 09:03 AM
But not for a top 5 SP in the game with 3 years left on a ridiculously cheap contract in an offseason where the best SP is Rich Hill.

Its pretty straight forward though. No one gets a 4-5 WAR cost controlled CF + a large package for a 5-6 WAR pitcher.

Honestly, if the White Sox are trading Sale, they are tearing down. So all this talk about JBJ could be pointless. They may want a lot of prospects instead if they go full rebuild.

So what would you're offer be then?

papipapsmanny
10-22-2016, 12:08 PM
Probably Devers, Kopech, Basabe, Dubon, and someone in low A that Chicago randomly likes.

Or Moncada, Kopech and Dubon

sager729
10-22-2016, 03:03 PM
Neither one of those gets Chris Sale. Sorry.

-Lavigne43-
10-22-2016, 03:57 PM
You guys always underestimate how much it will cost to acquire players. This is one of the best pitchers in baseball, it would cost the farm. If we are only trading prospects then Moncada, Devers, and Groome/Kopech would certainly be in the trade. That's precisely why it would be a dumb move, but I could certainly see Dombrowski doing it.

-Lavigne43-
10-22-2016, 04:02 PM
Am i the only one who thinks Bautista may be the more appealing choice for DH than E5? Edwin is certainly going to command more money and more years, and I think transitioning to DH should help keep Bautista healthy and productive.

Bautista had a down year but I think he will still get paid tremendously. If we went that route I would rather go after Matt Holliday on a buy low deal.

Pittz
10-22-2016, 05:40 PM
Bautista had a down year but I think he will still get paid tremendously. If we went that route I would rather go after Matt Holliday on a buy low deal.

I'd be happy with Holliday as well.

BoSox47
10-23-2016, 01:21 PM
I would be fine with a rotational DH. Give Hanley some time there, or depending on the pitching matchup use it to offset a right handed hitter or left handed hitter. Ortiz's production will be missed, but I would rather spend the money to sign our own players long term and build a bullpen. Carson smith being back should really help the bullpen situation as well. Hopefully he can be back to form. He will likely miss a good portion of the season but hopefully he will be back towards the end of next season.

We also have pablo sandoval coming back and as much as many people dont want to hear it, he will be getting a chance to redeem himself.

Hopefully another offseason will help E-rod and Pomeranz and they can solidify the 3/4 spots in the pitching rotation and Wright/Buccholz/Kelly/etc will battle it out for the 5th spot.

soxer04
10-23-2016, 02:31 PM
I would be fine with a rotational DH. Give Hanley some time there, or depending on the pitching matchup use it to offset a right handed hitter or left handed hitter. Ortiz's production will be missed, but I would rather spend the money to sign our own players long term and build a bullpen. Carson smith being back should really help the bullpen situation as well. Hopefully he can be back to form. He will likely miss a good portion of the season but hopefully he will be back towards the end of next season.

We also have pablo sandoval coming back and as much as many people dont want to hear it, he will be getting a chance to redeem himself.

Hopefully another offseason will help E-rod and Pomeranz and they can solidify the 3/4 spots in the pitching rotation and Wright/Buccholz/Kelly/etc will battle it out for the 5th spot.

I'm with ya on everything you say here. If we're looking for a bat get some cheaper righty bat that can be platooned in the infield with what we have with the several lefty bats. And help the relief pitching.

chomaru
10-24-2016, 01:11 AM
Does anyone else feel like the narrative from the local media on Theo is a bit misleading? Don't get me wrong, I think he is an excellent GM but he is responsible for giving Crawford and Heyward a combined 15 years and 326 million. Those 2 are in the running for top 5 worst free agent signings of all time.

But what about his draft history you say? MLB pretty much had to alter the way things are done with the draft and international signings because big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox were "abusing" the system.

Again, I believe he is an excellent GM but the trolling by the local media towards the Red Sox is getting out of hand.

RedSoxtober
10-24-2016, 09:42 AM
I remember when the Sox landed Millar. Millar had negotiated a 2yr deal with Chunichi of the Japanese Central League. The Marlins passed him through waivers for the purpose of giving him his release to go to Japan since there's no way to trade with a Japanese team. There's a gentleman's agreement -- an unwritten rule -- that these waivers go unclaimed. Theo didn't. He made the claim and convinced Millar to come to Boston... for less than he'd signed with Chunichi.

I guess how you view that says a great deal about how you view Theo. He's reasonably brilliant, does not mind breaking unwritten rules, and pushing the envelope. He's always preferred to build a winner from the farm up and has obviously done a pretty good job of it in Chicago after a similarly good job in Boston.

I think that AGon was his deal but Crawford probably has Lucchino/Werner behind it. Heyward? That's obviously all on him. He has always been prone to his mancrushes.

Since I'm pretty far out of the "local" market, I have no idea what the narrative is like. Overall, though, I'd say that he's been incredibly good at what he does and it's hard to think of many FO executives who've had as much success.

AI
10-24-2016, 10:23 AM
How can you view him like that just because of the Heyward signing? Who still has time to turn it around and make good on his contract (see: J.D. Drew).

In his tenure with Chicago...

He has traded for Rizzo, Russell, Fowler, Arrieta, Hendricks, Strop, Chapman
Has signed Lester, Lackey, Zobrist, Soler, Heyward
Has drafted Bryant, Schwarber, Almora

He has hit on almost all of those moves while keeping the farm in tact.

AI
10-24-2016, 10:26 AM
Worst thing we ever did was get rid of Theo and try to get "sexy names". Could you imagine what our team would look like if we still had Theo, Hoyer, Cherington, McLeod in the FO? We'd probably be stacked, more than we already are.

chomaru
10-24-2016, 10:41 AM
How can you view him like that just because of the Heyward signing? Who still has time to turn it around and make good on his contract (see: J.D. Drew).

In his tenure with Chicago...

He has traded for Rizzo, Russell, Fowler, Arrieta, Hendricks, Strop, Chapman
Has signed Lester, Lackey, Zobrist, Soler, Heyward
Has drafted Bryant, Schwarber, Almora

He has hit on almost all of those moves while keeping the farm in tact.

You did see the part where I said he was excellent twice right? As for Heyward, I'm sure he'll bounce back to the career 750 OPS guy he is.

Green_Monster
10-24-2016, 01:03 PM
You did see the part where I said he was excellent twice right? As for Heyward, I'm sure he'll bounce back to the career 750 OPS guy he is.

He'll bounce back to the 6 WAR player he is.

soxer04
10-24-2016, 02:15 PM
He'll bounce back to the 6 WAR player he is.

I don't think he will. That's not to say Theo isn't terrific.

Green_Monster
10-24-2016, 03:00 PM
I don't think he will. That's not to say Theo isn't terrific.

Since coming into the league his rWAR numbers are as follows (6.4, 2.5, 5.8, 3.7, 6.2, 6.5, 1.5). That's an average of 4.7, with his worst two seasons other than this year only playing 128 and 104 games respectively. Bump those to full seasons and he's likely over an average of 5 WAR a season. He's put up over 6 WAR in two of the previous three seasons. He'll only be 27 years old next year. Why won't he bounce back?

chomaru
10-24-2016, 03:28 PM
He'll bounce back to the 6 WAR player he is.

So you'll take that contract on right now then? He's a fine player, Crawford was a fine player but both contracts are monstrosities. I intentionally made sure to point out how Theo was excellent twice because I knew there would be backlash for pointing out that his farts stink.

ruckus16969
10-24-2016, 06:24 PM
Things I'd adress this off season are 1B or DH and the BP for sure. Then if the right deal comes about then maybe upgrade the SPing. That's it. I think 3B is fine for now and if it's a problem we can adress it mid season.

I hope they don't mess with our OF. We should that group together for the next 5 years.

I like our catching situation. I feel like they will continue to get better.

2B an SS are solid

I like our bench

-Lavigne43-
10-24-2016, 08:02 PM
We didn't get rid of Theo. Theo had his heart set on the Cubs once the opening was available. If I remember right, there were rumors of him talking with the Cubs that summer. Maybe he stays if we sent Luchhino out the door and made him president, but I doubt it. Being known as the guy to end two of the most storied baseball franchises notorious championship droughts was too desirable for him.

Green_Monster
10-24-2016, 09:43 PM
So you'll take that contract on right now then? He's a fine player, Crawford was a fine player but both contracts are monstrosities. I intentionally made sure to point out how Theo was excellent twice because I knew there would be backlash for pointing out that his farts stink.

Um, I never said anything about his contract and neither did the post I quoted. Why are you trying to put that on me?

I said he'll bounce back to being a 6 WAR player or close to it.

chomaru
10-24-2016, 09:55 PM
Um, I never said anything about his contract and neither did the post I quoted. Why are you trying to put that on me?

I said he'll bounce back to being a 6 WAR player or close to it.

I was referencing my original post that it was a bad contract, didn't mean to sound like a douche, I always dig reading your stuff.

Green_Monster
10-24-2016, 10:04 PM
I was referencing my original post that it was a bad contract, didn't mean to sound like a douche, I always dig reading your stuff.

Alright, that's my bad then. I didn't connect the dots. Sometimes I come off too defensive because of the things I've read on here in the past.

To answer it, I wouldn't take him at that contract. He's much better than what he showed this season though.

chomaru
10-24-2016, 10:20 PM
Alright, that's my bad then. I didn't connect the dots. Sometimes I come off too defensive because of the things I've read on here in the past.

To answer it, I wouldn't take him at that contract. He's much better than what he showed this season though.

No worries, I'm the same way. I was just frustrated because Theo left in 2011 and there is this narrative that the Red Sox made a massive blunder but if you bring up the Tyler Seguin trade people will tell you to stop living in the past.

RedSoxtober
10-25-2016, 09:03 AM
So you'll take that contract on right now then? He's a fine player, Crawford was a fine player but both contracts are monstrosities. I intentionally made sure to point out how Theo was excellent twice because I knew there would be backlash for pointing out that his farts stink.

We are never as good as our best moments and never as bad as our worst, so I think we have to look at the sum total and evaluate that. I think that Cashman, for example, has been a great GM for the Yankees especially because he had to deal with an extraordinarily meddlesome owner. But he signed Kei Igawa. Meh, sometimes you just get it wrong.

I was not happy about the Crawford signing here and only liked the Heyward* signing because he did NOT sign with the Sox. If those are his two lows along with a pretty compelling list of wins then I think that he deserves a lot of recognition for what he's done. Walking into two storied franchises with over 150 years of championship drought and WS contenders within five years in each location despite wildly different circumstances is pretty solid.

*I'm not big on Heyward. Now living in the Braves' TV market, I had plenty of opportunities to underperform the hype of his rookie season; I never felt like he "arrived." I'm not blown away by guys whose primary value is from defense.

chomaru
10-25-2016, 12:19 PM
We are never as good as our best moments and never as bad as our worst, so I think we have to look at the sum total and evaluate that. I think that Cashman, for example, has been a great GM for the Yankees especially because he had to deal with an extraordinarily meddlesome owner. But he signed Kei Igawa. Meh, sometimes you just get it wrong.

I was not happy about the Crawford signing here and only liked the Heyward* signing because he did NOT sign with the Sox. If those are his two lows along with a pretty compelling list of wins then I think that he deserves a lot of recognition for what he's done. Walking into two storied franchises with over 150 years of championship drought and WS contenders within five years in each location despite wildly different circumstances is pretty solid.

*I'm not big on Heyward. Now living in the Braves' TV market, I had plenty of opportunities to underperform the hype of his rookie season; I never felt like he "arrived." I'm not blown away by guys whose primary value is from defense.

Well said, especially in baseball. I conveniently left out that the majority of big money FA signings won't be of good value in order to make my point. I was butt-hurt when he left town and this series is opening some of those wounds.

RedSoxtober
10-25-2016, 02:10 PM
Just to top-off the butt hurt, remember that Maddon was the runner up to Francona when Theo picked GMs.

chomaru
10-25-2016, 04:33 PM
Just to top-off the butt hurt, remember that Maddon was the runner up to Francona when Theo picked GMs.

:mad:

j-bay
10-31-2016, 10:48 AM
3. Jose Bautista, RF, Blue Jays — Even after an injury-filled season, don’t expect Bautista to accept a $17.2 million qualifying offer from the Jays, according to a major league source. The feeling is Bautista, 36, will get multiyear offers in free agency. Boston could be a preferred destination, with Bautista having played for John Farrell and Brian Butterfield in Toronto. Bautista also loves Fenway Park.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/10/29/theo-epstein-not-finished-building-his-legacy/C9QexC8dCxUkneYpT4XveK/story.html

Makes the decision tougher.

The Allen
10-31-2016, 02:30 PM
I think I would be okay with Bautista on a three year deal as a DH only, but honestly I am not too sure I want a right handed bat to replace Ortiz.

RedSoxtober
10-31-2016, 02:48 PM
No thanks to Bautista. I think that 2016 is more than just a down year. His overall trend, IMO, is downward and the HRs don't entire me that much. For a power hitter he's kinda crappy in the doubles-department (he hasn't topped 30 doubles since 2010); he's all-or-nothing. Put that bat in Fenway, decrease the HRs, and he's a VERY expensive DH who cannot play the field very well any more. He's also surprisingly poor against LHP over the last four or five years.

Encarnacion has somewhat more even RHP/LHP splits (though I would expect more from him against LHP). I have really cooled on him since the end of the season. The power is obviously there... but so are the strikeouts, which have been climbing pretty steadily for the last three years. The spike in 2016, his age 33 season, could be a warning sign. My fear with him would be that he would fall off pretty soon into his FA contract and that contract could be jacked up due to the weak overall market.

Bautista and Encarnacion are both going to cost a pick if they get a QO, as well. Expensive contract plus losing a pick doesn't sound like a great deal.

Norieaga
10-31-2016, 03:11 PM
Agreed with the above. I'd much rather upgrade the bullpen, see what Sandoval can do at DH, and then take a shot at signing a guy like Machado in 2018.

soxer04
11-01-2016, 10:30 PM
Agreed with the above. I'd much rather upgrade the bullpen, see what Sandoval can do at DH, and then take a shot at signing a guy like Machado in 2018.

Yes!! Yes!! Yes!!! Machado is one big target -- big time. Don't go crazy this year so you can go crazy all out next year.

1--- The bullpen needs an upgrade

2-- We could use another right-handed bat that can play 1b and 3b and hit lefties very well. It's okay if Hanley remains at 1b but it would be nice to have someone else - an inexpensive utility player that can hit lefties-- Pearce?

3-- A catcher might not be a bad idea. Unless you are high on one of the catchers.

RedSoxtober
11-02-2016, 08:28 AM
Agreed with the above. I'd much rather upgrade the bullpen, see what Sandoval can do at DH, and then take a shot at signing a guy like Machado in 2018.

Just to be clear on this, Machado is a free agent AFTER the 2018 season along with Harper and ridiculous number of other premier players.

Soxtober040713
11-02-2016, 09:29 PM
I know it's crazy and unlikely to happen but what about a Trade for Trout to replace Papi? I know it's 2 different styles of player but I believe it would be the best fit for our team as it looks right now. I personally would trade

Bradley Jr
Moncada
Devers
Kopech
Dubon

Would that get Trout and is it too much.

Green_Monster
11-02-2016, 10:57 PM
I know it's crazy and unlikely to happen but what about a Trade for Trout to replace Papi? I know it's 2 different styles of player but I believe it would be the best fit for our team as it looks right now. I personally would trade

Bradley Jr
Moncada
Devers
Kopech
Dubon

Would that get Trout and is it too much.

It wouldn't get Trout. The Angels won't trade him.

RedSoxtober
11-03-2016, 08:32 AM
It wouldn't get Trout. The Angels won't trade him.

I'm not quite as certain that the Angels wouldn't trade Trout. There have been some soft rumors circulating about the possibility. Admittedly, I believe the chances are extremely low but the idea that they reset the franchise with a mega-deal is not completely far fetched. That said, the suggested package would not get it done. The Halos would need a couple of established players AND some on-the-verge prospects to make it happen. The list of guys suggested is much too long on future development.

RedSoxtober
11-03-2016, 08:36 AM
FWIW, after watching Maddon (mis)manage the WS, I think that the Sox could advance in the playoffs despite of their manager. Maddon sometimes goes the Bobby Valentine route of trying to prove that he's the smartest guy in the room.

RedSoxtober
11-03-2016, 01:29 PM
794044646905102336

RedSoxtober
11-03-2016, 01:33 PM
The conclusion of the World Series will bring a flurry of movement around baseball, both on the Red Sox roster and inside the front office.

The Sox shouldn’t need much time to announce Clay Buchholz’ $13.5  million option has been picked up for 2017, and that Ryan Hanigan’s $3.75  million option has been declined, which is the team’s plan. Hanigan has an $800,000 buyout.

On the sixth day after the World Series, free agency officially begins, barring some change related to the negotiation of the next collective bargaining agreement (the current CBA expires Dec. 1). Junichi Tazawa, Koji Uehara and Brad Ziegler can walk, leaving the bullpen as an area of need. Veteran infielder Aaron Hill is a free agent as well.

Sox bench coach Torey Lovullo was in Arizona on Sunday to interview to become the Diamondbacks manager. While Arizona general manager Mike Hazen, the former Sox GM, has not made a final decision, it would be a shock if Lovullo does not become the skipper.

Assuming Lovullo’s hiring is finalized, the Sox are likely to promote from within for their bench coach job. Hitting coach Chili Davis and third base coach Brian Butterfield jump out as candidates.Boston Herald

BoSox47
11-03-2016, 02:46 PM
I really hope we don't spend big on a DH. Ortiz production will be hard to wplicate but we should platoon DH, sign our own guys long term and get some bullpen arms.

Soxfan85
11-03-2016, 04:34 PM
Red Sox exercised their $13.5 million club option on RHP Clay Buchholz.
Buchholz posted a disappointing 4.78 ERA in 139 1/3 innings (21 starts, 16 relief appearances) this season for Boston, but $13.5 million is probably going to wind up as a relative bargain in this market for high-upside rotation depth. Buchholz produced a 3.26 ERA in 2015, so the Red Sox can hold legitimate hope of a rebound leading into 2017. He showed some promise in the second half of 2016.
Jon Heyman


Red Sox exercised their $16 million club option on DH David Ortiz.
This is nothing more than a formality. Ortiz is retiring from the game after producing an incredible .315/.401/.620 batting line with 38 home runs and 127 RBI in 537 at-bats this year at age 40. He was named the winner of the 2016 Hank Aaron Award in the American League and will go down as a legend in Boston baseball lore.
Source: Brian MacPherson


Red Sox activated 3B Pablo Sandoval from the 60-day disabled list.
Sandoval appeared in only three games this season for the Red Sox before requiring surgery to repair a torn labrum in his left shoulder. He's lost some weight on his rehab and the Red Sox expect him to compete for the starting third base job next spring with Travis Shaw and Brock Holt. Sandoval is still owed a whopping $54.8 million on a contract that runs through 2019.

Rotoworld


Red Sox activated INF Josh Rutledge from the 60-day disabled list; sent him outright to Triple-A Pawtucket.
Rutledge landed on the disabled list in mid-June with patellar tendinitis in his left knee and eventually required surgery. He is now off Boston's 40-man roster and it's unclear what his future might hold

Rotoworld


Red Sox activated C/OF Blake Swihart from the 60-day disabled list.
Swihart didn't appear in a game for the Red Sox beyond June 4 due to a lingering left ankle injury that eventually required season-ending surgery. He's expected to be ready for the beginning of spring training next February, but it's not exactly clear what his role might be with this team in 2017

Rotoworld


Red Sox activated RHP Carson Smith from the 60-day disabled list.
Smith underwent Tommy John reconstructive elbow surgery at the end of May and is probably going to be in rehab mode through the first half of the 2017 season. He's been a tremendous major league reliever when healthy, boasting a 2.00 ERA, 0.975 WHIP, and 104/26 K/BB ratio in 81 career innings

Rotoworld


Red Sox activated RHP Brandon Workman from the 60-day disabled list.
Workman missed the entire 2016 season while rehabbing from Tommy John reconstructive elbow surgery. He should be ready for the start of spring training in 2017, but the 28-year-old right-hander is going to have to prove himself worthy of a spot in the Boston bullpen.

Rotoworld


Red Sox declined their $3.75 million club option on C Ryan Hanigan.
Hanigan gets an $800,000 buyout and will become a free agent next week. The veteran catcher batted just .171/.230/.238 in 113 plate appearances this season for Boston and may be limited to non-guaranteed minor league contract offers on the open market.
Source: Jon Heyman

MagicBucsSox
11-03-2016, 05:16 PM
Gross,I'm so sick of Buchholz. It's always @ potential" & "hope" with this character. He stinks

ruckus16969
11-03-2016, 05:24 PM
Class act of the Sox to pick up Ortiz option but does that go towards the luxury tax?

sager729
11-04-2016, 05:56 AM
Why's it a class act? They don't have to pay him if he retires. They did it so if he were to decide to to not retire they have control of him.

RedSoxtober
11-04-2016, 10:01 AM
Gross,I'm so sick of Buchholz. It's always @ potential" & "hope" with this character. He stinks

They would have been braindead to pass on the option. The pitching market this offseason is horrible so his $13.5M option is a relative bargain even if he serves as a #5. By picking him up, though, they can use him as a back end option, explore trading him in a weak market (and get above-average returns), or explore trading another SP (Pomeranz/Rodriguez/Wright) in a deal for premier pitching talent and slide him in at the end of the rotation. Far too many ways for this to turn out right to pass it up.


Class act of the Sox to pick up Ortiz option but does that go towards the luxury tax?

There's really nothing at all to it. As the note said, it's merely a formality. If Ortiz does not file his formal retirement papers then he plays for the Red Sox. If he does file, then he does not get paid and the money does not count against their salary cap.

RedSoxtober
11-04-2016, 10:02 AM
With bullpens evolving like they are – as was evidenced by the Indians’ regular season and postseason use of Andrew Miller – the notion of the Red Sox at least kicking the tires on Greg Holland is understandable. And that’s exactly what Dave Dombrowski and Co. will be doing.

Red Sox representatives are planning on attending Monday’s showcase for the former Royals closer.

Holland represents one of the more intriguing relieving options in the free agent market, having not pithed in 2016 after undergoing Tommy John surgery at the end of the 2015 season.

The 30-year-old had been one of the game’s premier closers prior to tearing his ulnar collateral ligament. From 2013-14 he was the closer for a Kansas City bullpen that was considered the best in baseball. During that stretch Holland posted a 1.32 ERA over 133 appearances, going 93 for 98 in save chances.weei.com

BoSox47
11-05-2016, 11:37 AM
Holland would be a good low risk high reward type player. Need Carson smith to come back strong as well. I am more concerned about the bullpen/ pitching staff than I am replacing Ortiz's production.

j-bay
11-05-2016, 05:37 PM
Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Edwin Encarnación is reportedly looking for a 5 year deal worth $150 Million although his market value is around $20 Million per year.

Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Encarnación; "It's an honor that David talked about me, I work hard for that. We have to wait and see the Red Sox plans this offseason."

30 is to much. I would go 25-26M

AI
11-05-2016, 10:53 PM
Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Edwin Encarnación is reportedly looking for a 5 year deal worth $150 Million although his market value is around $20 Million per year.

Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Encarnación; "It's an honor that David talked about me, I work hard for that. We have to wait and see the Red Sox plans this offseason."

30 is to much. I would go 25-26M

Most I'd offer Edwin is 4 years/$80M. If he's not cool with that, sign someone like Holliday or Beltran at a much cheaper price.

RedSoxtober
11-06-2016, 10:35 PM
I'm not going to pay Ortiz' replacement 25% more than I paid Ortiz to contribute only with the bat. It doesn't make sense to tie up 10% of the (luxury tax) money for a guy who only gets 4-6 chances to impact the game.

When you simply accept the fact that NO ONE will replace Papi, it's much easier to look for a reasonable alternative. The offense outscored the closest competitor by over 100 runs.

soxer04
11-07-2016, 09:04 AM
Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Edwin Encarnación is reportedly looking for a 5 year deal worth $150 Million although his market value is around $20 Million per year.

Boston Strong ‏@BostonStrong_34
Encarnación; "It's an honor that David talked about me, I work hard for that. We have to wait and see the Red Sox plans this offseason."

30 is to much. I would go 25-26M

No thanks to EE. Not even for $20m. The bullpen is more important.

RedSoxtober
11-07-2016, 02:13 PM
According to George A. King III of the New York Post, the Yankees will also attend Greg Holland's showcase Monday in Scottsdale, Arizona.

The Yankees' bullpen lost some big names this summer, so it's no surprise they're willing to take a look at Holland. They'll be joined by several other teams including the Giants, Rangers, Red Sox and Royals. Holland sat out last season while recovering from Tommy John surgery. The 30-year-old right-hander holds a 2.42 ERA with 145 saves across six major league seasons.roto

So that's kind of a bummer. Having sold off their SU/CL types, the Yankees will get him if they want him.

ruckus16969
11-07-2016, 09:51 PM
I'm not sold on Holland. Who knows if he will be half the man he was back 2 years ago

ruckus16969
11-08-2016, 05:54 AM
The more I think about it the more I want to trade for Joey Votto. I think he would rake here and Hanley would better a strict DH. Or give Votto a break here and there. Might be able to get him cheaper cause we'd be taking on so much money.

BGeer091
11-08-2016, 10:40 AM
I don't want the Redsox to take on any big contracts or sign anyone to a big contract. Patience is what we need.

celticsman2009
11-08-2016, 10:53 AM
Hanley needs to play 1st. If he is just a DH, I fear he'll revert back to a dog. If he is constantly engaged on the field, I think he could have a similar year as this past.

j-bay
11-08-2016, 12:54 PM
In April, David Ortiz - who retired last month after 14 years in Boston - called the 33-year-old Encarnacion a "perfect replacement" for next season - a scenario that's apparently quite alluring.

"It definitely intrigued him," Kinzer said at the general managers' meeting, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. "He and David are close, and that meant a lot to him when David did that."

According to Kinzler, Encarnacion also adores the city and enjoys hitting at Fenway Park.

"He loves Boston," the agent said. "You look at his highlights from last year, I think five of his home runs were hit there. He loves to hit there. The atmosphere … That's always one of his favorite road games."

Encarnacion has indeed enjoyed great success at Fenway during his career.



http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1149584-agent-encarnacion-loves-boston

Soxtober040713
11-08-2016, 01:30 PM
No to EE. To much risk for too much money.Offense can survive with out him.

Id personally make a trade for a SP. Sale in particular.

To CHW:
Jackie Bradley Jr.
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Michael Kopech
Mauricio Dubon

To BOS:
Chris Sale
David Robertson

Sign Carlos Beltran
Sign Greg Holland

Pedroia 2B
Holt LF
Bogaerts SS
Betts RF
Ramirez 1B
Beltran DH
Shaw 3B
Benintendi CF
Leon C

Bench:
Vazquez C
Sandoval 1B/DH
Young OF

Price
Sale
Porcello
Pomeranz
Wright

Buchholz
Kelly
Barnes
Ross
Abad
Holland
Robertson
Kimbrel

This team competes. Plus if we do need offensive help. Find it at the deadline for rentals than have $ to fix the problem with the massive 2018 FA class

RedSoxtober
11-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Id personally make a trade for a SP. Sale in particular.

To CHW:
Jackie Bradley Jr.
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Michael Kopech
Mauricio Dubon

To BOS:
Chris Sale
David Robertson
I like both of those pitchers BUT I cannot see making that deal. I'm not saying that it's an unfair deal but rather that there's too much value for it to make sense to the Red Sox. I'd target Robertson in a lesser deal and simply shorten EVERY game with Kimbrel, Robertson, Kelly, etc ready to throw Ks on the board after 6.


This team competes. Plus if we do need offensive help. Find it at the deadline for rentals than have $ to fix the problem with the massive 2018 FA class
Again, to be clear, the "massive 2018 FA class" that everyone is talking about comes available in the 2018-19 offseason. Price, for example, could become part of that class with Sale, Harper, Stanton, etc if a buch of opt-out clauses are exercised. It is NOT the class that comes up after the 2017 season which is what I believe a lot of folks are banking on.

Sadly, the Sox don't have a lot of salary coming off the payroll before the 2018 FA class hits. Buchholz, Kimbrel, and Craig will all be gone (most likely). They'll shed HanRam if he was poor enough not to be a regular or if he ends 2018 with an injury; otherwise his option vests for 2019. They could lose Price if he opts-out after 2018. Unfortunately, that's all. Those big money, long-term contracts are hurting us as they always do.

RedSoxtober
11-08-2016, 04:53 PM
Some of DD's thinking at the start of the GM meetings. A big item to note is that the current CBA is expiring. That will very likely slow down an already weak market as teams wait for the ink to dry on MLB's organizational rules.


“I think all along we’ve talked about wanting someone to pitch in the eighth inning for us,” Dombrowski said Monday. “We have some guys that we really like in our pen, none of them have really pitched the eighth inning, they probably have the skills and abilities to do it but that would probably be first and foremost a thing of focus for us. Picking up Clay [Buchholz’s] option has solidified our starting pitching pretty much so we feel good about that.

“The other thing that I’m not sure in what direction we’re going to go is how do we replace David [Ortiz] in the lineup. I’m not sure if we’re going to do that internally with a lot of the people that we have or go outside the organization. I think that’s a decision that we’re just going to wait and see and see what takes place. You know you’ll never replace his presence, that part of it but our run production as much as we can, we have a lot of positional players right now, a lot of guys that can play different positions, we have some young guys coming that we like a great deal, so we’ll just kind of wait and see what happens there.”

The president noted that with the likes of Joe Kelly, Matt Barnes and Heath Hembree (who is out of options) already on the club, there would only seemingly be the need for one significant addition.

And when it comes to finding that eighth-inning reliever, Dombrowski suggested that going after the services of free agent closers Mark Melancon, Kenley Jansen and Aroldis Chapman might be difficult with other teams in greater need of game-enders.

Free agent targets such as Brad Ziegler, Koji Uehara and Greg Holland might be considered more realistic, with trade obviously presenting another avenue.

“I guess right now, we’re just open to anything. I’m not saying we’re going to target those,” he said. “There’s a lot of clubs looking for closers so I assume a lot of those players would go to those clubs. At this time of year don’t know what’s going to happen. There are a lot of bullpen people out there right now. So, I think probably the two areas, a lot of players are bullpen people, and there are some guys at first base, DH, LF, that type of guy, either through trades or free agency, that are available out there. I think that’s where we just have to wait and see what happens.”

Waiting might be more of a priority this time around, for a variety of reasons.


Not only do the Red Sox have to see how the market shakes out, but they also must wait on the rules of the new collective bargaining agreement, which will define what the luxury tax level will be going forward.

“I think the other thing I didn’t mention is we don’t know what rules we’re playing under yet with the basic agreement,” Dombrowski said. “That’s also a very important ingredient. Until you know what those rules are — especially as a club right around the competitive balance tax and we’ve exceeded that — knowing some of that is important because I don’t really know what we’re dealing with. You wouldn’t want something thrust upon you that surprised you that there were penalties attached you didn’t like or you may like. It’s better to know all the rules, and right now we don’t know them.”

One big-ticket name that would certainly put the Red Sox over the luxury tax level is Edwin Encarnacion. The former Blue Jays first baseman/designated hitter told WEEI.com immediately after Dombrowski’s press gathering that he sees the 33-year-old as a player deserving of five-year contract.

If that is the case, judging by Dombrowski’s statements, the Red Sox might be looking elsewhere to fill the void left by Ortiz. Think free agents like Carlos Beltran or Kendrys Morales.

“There’s a lot of different factors,” he said of finding the next middle-of-the-order bat. “One is affordability, but not only that. How long do you want to tie somebody up for that position when we have a lot of young players coming? I think that’s a very important part of it. Hanley [Ramirez] has two years and an option left. All of a sudden we have Pablo back at third base. I’m not saying he’s the third baseman but he has the capability of being the third baseman. He’s himself in good shape, he’s ready to go and he’s an established guy. You have [Travis] Shaw. You have [Brock] Holt. You have [Yoan] Moncada coming, you’ve got [Sam] Travis that’s not too far away. The three outfielders are pretty much, I think will be entrenched for awhile. So those are a lot of guys. And even a guy like [Rafael] Devers, I don’t know how far away he’s going to be. So do you want to tie up that one spot with one individual? I’m not sure. Now, one year? Maybe one year is different but from a long-term basis, do you want to do that? I’m not sure.”weei.com

RedSoxtober
11-09-2016, 12:57 PM
When asked about Uehara, the president certainly didn’t sound somebody intent on making the kind of commitment we’re talking about.

“I don’t know if it’s fair of me to speculate on publicly. He’s fine, but he’s 42 so there are some differences,” Dombrowski said when asked if the righty might fit the eighth-inning need. “I wouldn’t really want to get into that in that regard. That would have to be something everybody would have to determine themselves. It’s really a difficult subject for guys in free agency.”

Ziegler, it would appear, is still viewed by the Red Sox as more of a match-up reliever than a no-questions-asked set-up man.

“We liked him. He did a good job for us, a very good job,” Dombrowski said of the side-winder. “We had the ability to mix and match a lot when we had him. He’s extremely effective against right-handed hitters. He did alright vs. lefties, but better vs. righties. But again we don’t have the ability to add a lot of guys to our staff because you take on of the guys and you put them in your bullpen, so that’s one. You’ve got Kimbrel, you’ve got Kelly, you’ve got Barnes, you’ve got Hembree, you’ve got [Robbie] Ross, you’ve got [Fernando] Abad, so you have to make sure we have the right guy. One right guy is more important to us than a number of guys.”

(Dombrowski later clarified that the Red Sox are planning to tender Abad a contract, which there was some question about heading into this offseason.)

The wild card in the scenario is Carson Smith.

“In Carson Smith’s case it’s really a situation where some people think he’ll be ready for spring training, kind of ready to compete. I’m not ready to put that on him at this point,” Dombrowski said. “It think it’s more of a bonus if he’s ready there. I think he would be more ready in my own mind the whole year, you kind of look at that’s around the first of June. But that’s still to be determined. He’s making good progress. He’s felt good. But until you really get into that rehab process … Of course if he was healthy and ready to go at the very beginning I don’t think we would be looking for an eighth inning guy because we feel he could fill that role.”weei.com

RedSoxtober
11-09-2016, 01:04 PM
Doesnt look like Sale or Quintana will be coming to BOS any time soon.


Here’s what Dombrowski said on the first day of the GM meetings when asked if the Red Sox might dive into the starting pitching market, like they attempted to do last offseason: “I would be surprised. We have six starting pitchers right now. One of them is one of three finalists for the Cy Young Award [Rick Porcello]. Another is a Cy Young Award past winner we think very highly of [David Price]. Steven Wright made the All-Star team and we look for Steven [Wright] to be healthy. [Drew] Pomeranz made the All-Star team and we look for him to be healthy. And Eduardo Rodriguez we really like a great deal. We picked up [Clay] Buchholz’s option so we have a little bit of depth. Could we? Sure. Is it one of our top priorities? I would say no.”

And then the White Sox general manager chimed in on the matter Tuesday: “I don’t know if [the lack of starting pitching in the free agent market] changes our mindset. It may well change the value of control of premium talent given the absence of it in the market. That may therefore increase the return of a potential trade and move us more toward the position of making a deal. It doesn’t change how we value that talent. It doesn’t change our appreciation for how special and scarce that talent is. If other teams are sharing that view as well and are aggressive because of it, then we have to make a judgment what’s best for the organization over the long-term.

“[Chris Sale’s] understandably a popular name. He’s not alone on our roster, but he’s certainly the one who attracts the most headlines and speculation, and with good cause. He’s a perennial Cy Young contender. He’s in his prime and controllable for the next three years, so it certainly makes sense why people are asking.”weei.com

Fla.SticKy
11-09-2016, 10:27 PM
Please stay FARRRRR away from Bautista.

MagicBucsSox
11-10-2016, 07:55 AM
Miguel Cabrera should be #1 priority

RedSoxtober
11-10-2016, 09:37 AM
The Sox have continued to show strong interest in Holland, who the organization sent multiple representatives to watch during the reliever’s Monday showcase. Considering Holland’s history as a closer with Kansas City, and the Red Sox’ need for a late-inning reliever, a partnership would make sense.

Reports from the showcase were that Holland, who underwent Tommy John surgery at the end of the 2015 season, showed good health while throwing his fastball in the low 90’s. He will now take six weeks off before resuming his throwing program.

Considering the potential cost of late-inning relievers (such as Mark Melancon, Kenley Jansen and Aroldis Chapman) in the open market, Holland could represent the kind of investment which figures to be hard to find in this market.

The question will be how much the Red Sox want to allocate to that eighth-inning spot, and if they feel Holland can be more of a certainty than Carson Smith (who Dombrowski suggested would be brought along slowly throughout spring training). In terms of potential eighth-inning relievers who have previously shown the ability to pitch in such high-leverage situations, there simply aren’t a lot of options in the open market.

As for Beltran, the 39-year-old is drawing interest from the Red Sox for obvious reasons. He represents the kind of short-term solution at DH Dombrowski said he is looking for, having come off another solid season (totaling an .850 OPS with 29 homers between New York and Texas).

But, as one source said, Beltran shouldn’t be classified as the only Plan A for the Red Sox, with the team telling some in MLB trades to fill the position are still a strong possibility.weei.com

RedSoxtober
11-10-2016, 09:47 AM
Miguel Cabrera should be #1 priority

I honestly don't see how this makes any sense. The Sox are already projected close to the $189M luxury tax threshhold that governed the past couple of seasons. There is no way that the Sox can afford to put Cabrera in their uniform without completely handcuffing the team for the next four years. Make the deal and you have to hope and pray that (a) Price opts out after 2018 and (b) one of the younger arms is ready to take his place.

The first may not be unrealistic given the nature of some of Price's tweets. The latter, however, is a long shot. It's not that I don't have high expectations for Groome, Kopech, and Rodriguez. The problem is that at least one of them would likely be included in a deal for Cabrera and Pomeranz would be leaving at the same time as Price (assuming the Sox keep him for his arb years).

Cabrera is a great hitter and he could definitely replace the production that we would miss from the departure of Ortiz. He would be a luxury, however, and a very expensive one that could frustrate their plans for both the short and long terms. I definitely don't see it as the top priority and am not sure that it even makes sense as a wish list item.

trentman1155
11-10-2016, 12:05 PM
Can we trade for Cutch!?

Green_Monster
11-10-2016, 02:19 PM
I'm not sure trading for McCutchen would be a good move. He had a huge drop off last year. Our resources would be much better spent elsewhere, especially considering we have Betts/JBJ/Benintendi.

I just looked it up, he was even worse than I thought. His rWAR was -0.7 and his fWAR was 0.7 last year. I know you can't just look at WAR, but wow.

Fla.SticKy
11-10-2016, 02:31 PM
Can we trade for Cutch!?
Pass

RedSoxtober
11-10-2016, 04:04 PM
The economic reality for those who would like to add significant payroll.


Exactly where the Red Sox pin their payroll number this winter likely depends on the collective bargaining agreement, and whether there are changes to the competitive-balance tax. A shift to that luxury-tax threshold, which has sat at $189 million since the end of the 2013 season, or the penalties associated with surpassing it could alter Boston's budget.

"We need to find out: If you go over, what are the penalties? I do not know those things," said Dombrowski on Wednesday.

Under the current CBA, the Red Sox paid penalties of 17.5 percent for exceeding the luxury tax in 2015 and 30 percent this past season. Going over again in 2017 would mean a 40 percent tax on the surplus. It's possible the penalties could be increased even more in a new agreement.

Even without any major additions this winter, the Red Sox would have an Opening Day payroll in the vicinity of $190 to $195 million, and any significant signing this winter would ensure they'd blow past that $189 million threshold for the third consecutive year. That means signing a player to a $15 million deal annually would actually cost $21 million, considering the tax, under the current system — and perhaps more in an even stricter one.Providence Journal

papipapsmanny
11-10-2016, 10:07 PM
Resign Koji for one year, sign Beltran for on year. Sign Jensen to a sizeable 4 year deal.

RedSoxtober
11-11-2016, 12:46 PM
Resign Koji for one year, sign Beltran for on year. Sign Jensen to a sizeable 4 year deal.

Jensen is expecting to exceed Papelbon's contract (and Chapman is expecting to destroy it). I don't think that it's wise to have two RPs making SP money.

The Allen
11-11-2016, 05:19 PM
I could see us getting EE now that Toronto isn't a suitor.

bosox1899
11-11-2016, 06:22 PM
what are the odds of us getting this guy?

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=433703

300 million is ridiculous but based on the scouting, doesn't sound like he'll be a bust.

ruckus16969
11-11-2016, 06:22 PM
No to EE. To much risk for too much money.Offense can survive with out him.

Id personally make a trade for a SP. Sale in particular.

To CHW:
Jackie Bradley Jr.
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Michael Kopech
Mauricio Dubon

To BOS:
Chris Sale
David Robertson

Sign Carlos Beltran
Sign Greg Holland

Pedroia 2B
Holt LF
Bogaerts SS
Betts RF
Ramirez 1B
Beltran DH
Shaw 3B
Benintendi CF
Leon C

Bench:
Vazquez C
Sandoval 1B/DH
Young OF

Price
Sale
Porcello
Pomeranz
Wright

Buchholz
Kelly
Barnes
Ross
Abad
Holland
Robertson
Kimbrel

This team competes. Plus if we do need offensive help. Find it at the deadline for rentals than have $ to fix the problem with the massive 2018 FA class

I actually really like these moves

Soxtober040713
11-11-2016, 09:55 PM
Sale would be awesome I think he would excel for his remaining contract in Boston but if that can't happen I would target Sonny Gray. Beane loves Boston prospects. Gray being in the same clubhouse as Price will help them both I believe with their history with the same Beltran and Holland singing I mentioned before the team looks like this.

To Oakland:
Rafael Devers
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Mauricio Dubon
Fernando Abad

To Boston:
Sonny Gray
Sean Doolittle

Price
Porcello
Gray
Pomeranz
Wright

Buchholz
Kelly
Barnes
Ross
Holland
Doolittle
Kimbrel

Pedroia 2B
Bradley Jr CF
Bogaerts SS
Betts RF
Ramirez 1B
Beltran DH
Shaw 3B
Leon C
Benintendi LF

Vazquez C
Holt 3B/OF
Young OF
Sandoval 1B/DH

RedSoxtober
11-13-2016, 08:21 PM
Gray has an ERA over 5 since mid-Aug 2015 (yeah, more than one season). What indication do you have that he's going to suddenly snap back into his MLB debut form moving from the big parks in the MLB west to the offensive juggernauts in the AL East?

ruckus16969
11-14-2016, 11:16 PM
I don't want EE. Not worth losing the draft pick over

ruckus16969
11-14-2016, 11:17 PM
I don't want Sonny Gray either. Never have.

Soxfan85
11-15-2016, 09:33 PM
It appears the Red Sox have some familiar competition for Carlos Beltran’s source.
According to a source familiar with the negotations, four teams have currently shown the most interest in the 39-year-old outfielder/designated hitter — the Red Sox, Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros. The Rangers, once thought to be in the mix for Beltran’s services, are not involved at this point.

The Red Sox’ interest in Beltran has been prevalent since the outset of free agency, with Dave Dombrowski looking to replace David Ortiz with a shorter-term deal than the kind of four- our five-year contract Edwin Encarnacion figures to receive.

The switch-hitting Beltran is coming off another standout offensive season, totaling an .850 OPS and 29 homers in 151 games between stints with the Yankees and Texas.

Houston has been perceived as perhaps the most aggressive suitor, although both the Blue Jays have already shown the willingness to get out in front of the free agent market with the recent signing of designated hitter Kendrys Morales to a three-year deal.

And with the Yankees seemingly willing to deal Brian McCann, who would currently figure to slot into New York’s lineup as a designated hitter, Beltran could offer a logical replacement.

It is uncertain when any team might strike a deal for Beltran, with some teams, like the Red Sox, waiting to see what the luxury tax threshold will be under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Rob Bradford

randyisgoinsolo
11-16-2016, 10:19 AM
I don't know what is everyone's beef with Encarnacion, if anyone should replace Ortiz it should be EE. This dude has almost similar numbers to Ortiz and still can hit, saying he's not worth it is a dumb statement, not every player who is good is gonna take less than 20 mil per the market has changed since then. To be honest if the Red Sox aren't that interested in EE then save the money and give it a shot with Sandoval or Shaw at DH instead of throwing money to a 40 year old when no one knows if he's going to repeat what he did this past season and could have a couple of injuries during the season. No thanks on Beltran save the money on pitching and for extensions on Betts and Bogaerts.

RedSoxtober
11-16-2016, 12:30 PM
Let's not get carried away. Encarnacion has been a good hitter, but he is NOT Ortiz nor are his number "almost similar". The HR and SLG numbers are similar but Ortiz is a better bat-to-ball guy. The biggest problem is the growing separation in his splits between LHP and RHP. He's traditionally been closer for his career and the separation is often an early indicator of the onset of decline. Since he's likely to sign a deal for his ages 34-37 seasons (at least) for a deal in excess of $20M/yr (at least) that is a potential red flag.

There is also the fact that he is a right-handed hitter. That's not necessarily a problem but it's an imperfect fit, skewing them a bit too much to the right.

He doesn't fit the Red Sox needs as obviously as you seem to think. For that reason, he is not worth they money to the Red Sox.

You also cannot simply dismiss the money with a comment like "not every player is gonna take less than 20 mil per." The statement itself is true enough but it it basically says that every decision is made in a vacuum. They're not. With the Sox already pushing past the $189M luxury tax threshold his contract is more expensive than just the "face amount." Let's say that you sign him for the $25M/yr that he's supposedly after. He will cost the Sox $35M/yr because of the luxury tax penalties. He is definitely not worth THAT money. If the answer is to start selling expensive contracts -- possibly at a discount to make them palatable -- then you also see the problem of roster construction with their top five contracts exceeding an average of $20M/yr.

Encarnacion wants too much money for too long a period to fit the Red Sox needs.

randyisgoinsolo
11-16-2016, 12:55 PM
Let's not get carried away. Encarnacion has been a good hitter, but he is NOT Ortiz nor are his number "almost similar". The HR and SLG numbers are similar but Ortiz is a better bat-to-ball guy. The biggest problem is the growing separation in his splits between LHP and RHP. He's traditionally been closer for his career and the separation is often an early indicator of the onset of decline. Since he's likely to sign a deal for his ages 34-37 seasons (at least) for a deal in excess of $20M/yr (at least) that is a potential red flag.

There is also the fact that he is a right-handed hitter. That's not necessarily a problem but it's an imperfect fit, skewing them a bit too much to the right.

He doesn't fit the Red Sox needs as obviously as you seem to think. For that reason, he is not worth they money to the Red Sox.

You also cannot simply dismiss the money with a comment like "not every player is gonna take less than 20 mil per." The statement itself is true enough but it it basically says that every decision is made in a vacuum. They're not. With the Sox already pushing past the $189M luxury tax threshold his contract is more expensive than just the "face amount." Let's say that you sign him for the $25M/yr that he's supposedly after. He will cost the Sox $35M/yr because of the luxury tax penalties. He is definitely not worth THAT money. If the answer is to start selling expensive contracts -- possibly at a discount to make them palatable -- then you also see the problem of roster construction with their top five contracts exceeding an average of $20M/yr.

Encarnacion wants too much money for too long a period to fit the Red Sox needs.

I get your point but for fans to say Beltran is a lot better when the Sox have Hanley, Sandoval and Shaw to play DH is just a dumb statement, no way I give Beltran more than 6 to 8 mil for 1 year. No 40 year old should be worth more than that unless he's a David Ortiz type of caliber hitter, Beltran does kind of have a history of injuries too and no team should expect him to repeat his performance from this past season.

The Allen
11-16-2016, 05:04 PM
We are officially a finalist for Beltran...can't say I am excited.

RedSoxtober
11-17-2016, 10:22 AM
I get your point but for fans to say Beltran is a lot better when the Sox have Hanley, Sandoval and Shaw to play DH is just a dumb statement, no way I give Beltran more than 6 to 8 mil for 1 year. No 40 year old should be worth more than that unless he's a David Ortiz type of caliber hitter, Beltran does kind of have a history of injuries too and no team should expect him to repeat his performance from this past season.

What fans may be saying is a bit more nuanced. "Beltran is better for the Red Sox" is not the same thing as "Beltran is better." The former is a relative statement that takes into account the context of the decision; the latter is an empirical statement.

Obviously, I don't think that EE is a very good fit for the Red Sox. Even with his gaudy HR totals, I am concerned that the decline phase has started and his next employer is going to pay heavily for his past success while watching his production drop. Combine his roster-limiting contract and defensive deficiencies and I fear a trifecta that paints the Sox into a corner at a time when they SHOULD (IMO) be preparing for a bright future with a young core that could be augmented by young stars in the next two years. Translation: sign EE if you're prepared to lose at least one of Bogaerts or Betts soon AND don't care to be a player in the 2018-19 offseason bonanza.

Beltran's offense is also slowing. He's cheating a bit to get to fastballs and it's being reflected in his k-rates. His deal is likely more modest and significantly shorter. Switch hitter who still has enough to play a corner OF spot (not the range for CF any more) plus 1B in a pinch. That' a fair bit of positional flexibility that could help the Sox. You could, for example, roster additional IF insurance with Beltran serving as a fallback fifth OF while also having several guys capable of jumping in at 1B if necessary. To me, this all makes him a much better fit.

Similar things could be said for Holliday. I might be slightly more interested in the guy we didn't sign in 2009-10 if he weren't a RHB.

On the whole, I think that there are a lot of imperfect fits to get the primary DH PA. I'd rather err on the side of the shorter, less expensive contract because I believe that we could make up for it with the youth. Moncada, for example, could use the spot as a path to MLB if he can clean up his approach at the plate (and the positional flexibility of 2B/3B/DH would a winning combo). I really don't see a compelling case for signing the biggest bat on the market.

ruckus16969
11-18-2016, 06:23 AM
^^^^

Moncada should not come to the Sox to be DH if anything the guy should be playing 2 or 3 positions at least. I would groom him into a Kris Bryant type. Play him at 2nd and 3rd even some 1st. Then try him in LF and RF. He has the athleticism. Like a super Brock Holt/ Zobtisy type. At least for his first few years then he could settle into 2nd or 3rd or where ever

ruckus16969
11-18-2016, 06:49 AM
I'm not hyped up on the Beltran idea. I think Holliday would be cheaper and he may be able to stay healthy being a full time DH.

I really hope the FO goes and gets a full time DH and and doesn't do it like a DH by committe. I just don't want the Joey Bats or the ED'S of the world that will cost us a fortune plus draft picks. Holliday can probably play a lil 1B if Hanley needs rest or gets hurt.

If I was a FO decision maker I would ad very little to the offense side of things. I'd go crazy and try to build a mega BP and keep my ears open for that potential trade for another work Horse 1a/2 type pitcher.

And like I've said for 2 years now I would do everything in my power to keep Devers on this team. I know it would be hard to do if we where to aquire that ace type pitcher or that power arm Wade Davis type guy but Moncada Devers and Benintendi would be absolutely off limits. I wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if all 3 of those guys become Stars. And I feel like Sam Travis is right up there with them. I know you have to give to get but boy I would have a really hard time trading any of those guys for almost anyone.

I'd be more open to trading JBJ and Vasquez or even Swihart all of those guys could be the top piece or 2 in a trade for your Ace.

Something like this would be more then enough

JBJ, Swihart, Pomerantz or Erod, Durban, Shaw, Brian Johnson or Owens and you can toss in filler pieces and there all players that are either blocked or would be blocked if we acquired that 1a type.

That package could net us say Chris Sale and Todd Frazier or Sale and Robertson. In this case Crazier becomes 3B/DH or Robertson and Kimbrel battle for the closer job. Would be nice to get all 3 guys.

That 5 or 6 mlb ready players with huge upside that would entice just about any team. Not to mwntion thise are premium positions. You could argue that package would land you Trout. It would fill allot of needs on a team.

RedSoxtober
11-18-2016, 10:15 AM
^^^^

Moncada should not come to the Sox to be DH if anything the guy should be playing 2 or 3 positions at least. I would groom him into a Kris Bryant type. Play him at 2nd and 3rd even some 1st. Then try him in LF and RF. He has the athleticism. Like a super Brock Holt/ Zobtisy type. At least for his first few years then he could settle into 2nd or 3rd or where ever

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that Moncada would be a full time DH or even primarily a DH. I was suggesting that with a rotating DH and the positional flexibility of Moncada that he has an easier path into MLB. Pedroia is pretty much locked in at Moncada's primary position and Moncada has been less than spectacular at 3B so far. Assuming that the Sox keep Benintendi, Bradley, and Betts in the OF then there's no easy spot to put him in out there. However, if he could get a game or two at 2B, 3B, and DH per week then he's playing on a pretty regular basis while giving other guys a "productive break".

It's not a hill to die on. Just pointing out that there are merits to the rotating DH idea... which is is probably why the majority of the teams are employing it.

Soxtober040713
11-18-2016, 01:44 PM
Been thinking about it lately. Would a trade for Chris Sale & David Robertson and a Trade for Carlos Gonzalez be possible?

For Sale and Robertson:

Jackie Bradley Jr
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Yoan Moncada
Mauricio Dubon

Than for Cargo:
Travis Shaw
Michael Kopech
Michael Chavis
Trey Ball

Pedroia 2B
Bogaerts SS
Betts RF
Gonzalez LF
Ramirez 1B
Beltran DH
Benintendi CF
Leon C
Holt 3B

Price
Sale
Porcello
Pomeranz
Wright

Buchholz
Abad
Tazawa
Barnes
Ross
Kelly
Robertson
Kimbrel

Vazquez C
Sandoval 3B/DH/1B
Young OF

RedSoxtober
11-19-2016, 02:07 PM
:horse:

AI
11-19-2016, 03:20 PM
:horse:

Not even worth a response. I'm with you buddy, offseason at it's finest. :sigh:

byan04
11-19-2016, 06:08 PM
Been thinking about it lately. Would a trade for Chris Sale & David Robertson and a Trade for Carlos Gonzalez be possible?

For Sale and Robertson:

Jackie Bradley Jr
Blake Swihart
Eduardo Rodriguez
Yoan Moncada
Mauricio Dubon

Than for Cargo:
Travis Shaw
Michael Kopech
Michael Chavis
Trey Ball

Pedroia 2B
Bogaerts SS
Betts RF
Gonzalez LF
Ramirez 1B
Beltran DH
Benintendi CF
Leon C
Holt 3B

Price
Sale
Porcello
Pomeranz
Wright

Buchholz
Abad
Tazawa
Barnes
Ross
Kelly
Robertson
Kimbrel

Vazquez C
Sandoval 3B/DH/1B
Young OF




i believe that they should take a chance on Trevor Plouffe for third base .. try to get Sale and some bullpen help along with the DH of the future ..if possible

RedSoxtober
11-21-2016, 11:39 AM
As Dombrowski insinuated, it would be preferred by the club if it could avoid going over the newly-defined tax threshold by managing their free agent acquisitions.

According to industry sources, that truly appears to be the Red Sox’ strategy.

Those talking with the Red Sox throughout the first few weeks of the offseason have come away with the feeling that they aren’t going to truly “play” in the free agent market until the new rules are set. Dombrowski is certainly expressing interest to key targets (such as Carlos Beltran), but as of Monday patience was still the priority.

While sources suggest some clubs have joined the Red Sox in their approach, showing some “trepidation” to dive head-first into the market, there has been some movement.

Reliever Brett Cecil, for instance, just agreed to a four-year, $30.5 million deal with the Cardinals, while outfielder Josh Reddick inked a four-year, $52 million contract to play for the Astros. It should be noted, however, that both clubs wouldn’t be near the luxury tax threshold, with St. Louis hovering around $145 million and Houston in the vicinity of $100 million.

The Red Sox are already committed to a payroll that is up against the current luxury tax threshold of $189 million. Dombrowski has stated the club’s focus this offseason is to find a replacement for David Ortiz, and a reliable eighth-inning relief pitcher.weei.com

RedSoxtober
11-21-2016, 06:11 PM
If true then we know that EE will cost more than $80M/4yr.

The Blue Jays are becoming an intriguing part of this offseason.

According to Jon Heyman to FanRag.com, the Jays offered Edwin Encarnacion a four-year deal worth “about” $80 million prior to signing Kendrys Morales to his three-year, $33 million deal.

Even with the signing of Morales, Heyman reports that the Blue Jays remain interested in bringing back Encarnacion to share the first base/designated hitter spot with the former Royal. That lines up with the notion surfaced to WEEI.com by major league sources that the Jays were one of four teams showing the most interest DH candidate Carlos Beltran.

Sources familiar with the situation recently told WEEI.com that the Red Sox haven’t shown significant interest in Encarnacion, with Dave Dombrowski still prioritizing finding David Ortiz’s replacement via a shorter-term deal. Heyman reports, however, that the Sox have joined the Astros, Yankees, and Rangers as some of clubs who have reached out about the 33-year-old slugger.weei.com

AI
11-21-2016, 06:46 PM
I assume we'll only be in on Encarnacion if the luxury tax threshold rises significantly.

RedSoxtober
11-22-2016, 09:53 AM
What about a Party at Napoli's? The guess right now has him at $14M/1yr. Maybe 1yr plus an option? His RHB isn't a perfect fit but we know that he wouldn't falter in the BOS spotlight and that he's a great clubhouse presence. I wouldn't classify him as anything more than a Plan C but wouldn't be upset if he were a short-term solution.

AI
11-22-2016, 02:00 PM
Napoli's too streaky a hitter and we've got plenty of those in the lineup already. I hope we're able to land Beltran on a 1-year deal (switch hitter that balances out the lineup) or even Matt Holliday on a 1-year pillow contract a la Beltre.

RedSoxtober
11-23-2016, 09:58 AM
Definitely think that we won the Ross-for-Ranaudo deal.

Anthony Ranaudo has signed a one-year contract with the Samsung Lions of the Korea Baseball Organization.

The deal is worth $1.05 million, which is far more than he stood to make in North America. Ranaudo, 27, had a 7.01 career ERA in 86 career major league innings.via roto

BoSox47
11-23-2016, 01:58 PM
I hope they stand pat, No need to give EE or anyone that money. Use it to bring in a platoon guy for DH for LHH/RHH and play them depending on the pitching matchup. I would use any other money on short term deals for relievers and try to extend some of the young guys, or at least save long term money for Mookie, JBJ and Xander.

Id be happy with letting Chris Young/Travis Shaw/Pablo Sandoval all battle it out for a DH rotation and Shaw/Sandoval/Holt can split 3B time While Young and Holt split other extra outfield time as well. IT will also help to keep guys more fresh during the season too.

I think the best way we can hide the loss of Ortiz is to strengthen the bullpen to a point where we didnt need as much late game heroics from Oritz and other guys.

Norieaga
11-23-2016, 03:16 PM
We don't need CarGo, our outfield is absolutely fine; hell, its one of our biggest strengths! There's also not much point in trading prospects for Robertson when we can go throw money at Chapman, Jansen, and whoever else. I'd also rather not trade for Sale since we're already supposed to have 2 aces on this team.

-Sign a DH on short-term: Napoli, Beltran, etc...
-Plug bullpen with many minor moves or a few bigger ones (ex. Jansen)

I'd be fine with signing Plouffe, I think that's a great idea. Throw Sandoval at DH so he doesn't wreck himself, keep Hanley at 1B since he looked decent enough out there.

RedSoxtober
11-24-2016, 11:49 AM
The Red Sox led the majors last year while scoring 5.42 runs per game. Losing Ortiz hurts, but can Pablo Sandoval chip in? Will Blake Swihart add some much-needed offensive production from the catcher position? Andrew Benintendi should provide a spark. Mookie Betts hasn’t peaked yet.

Barring a devastating injury, the offense shouldn’t sink too far from the No. 1 spot.

Sure, add Encarnacion and it’s a juggernaut lineup. But what’s that get them? They had a juggernaut lineup with one of the best postseason performers in history and they still got shut down by a slightly-above-average pitching staff in the Division Series.

And how’d the Red Sox pitch?

Cy Young winner Rick Porcello had his worst start of the season. David Price is now 0-8 in playoff starts. Drew Pomeranz threw his worst curveball of the year and Coco Crisp, of all people, ended the Red Sox’ season with a decisive home run.Boston Herald

RedSoxtober
11-25-2016, 08:04 PM
Not much to see here but it doesn't speak well of the Red Sox SP depth.


Sean O’Sullivan started four games with the Red Sox in 2016. Now it’s on to South Korea.
The 29-year-old, who spent all last season with Triple-A Pawtucket and the Red Sox after signing a minor-league deal with the organization last offseason, has agreed to play for Nexen Heroes of the Korea Baseball Organization. According to Dan Kurtz of MyKBO.net, O’Sullivan will be making $1.1 million for the 2016 season.

The Red Sox won all four of O’Sullivan’s starts, with the righty getting 39 runs of support in those appearances. His best start came against the Angels at Fenway Park July 3, the day after the Sox had suffered an embarrassing, 21-2 defeat at the hands of Los Angeles. In that outing he only surrendered two runs and four hits over five innings.

He would land on the major league 15-day disabled list (left knee tendonitis) July 9, making room on the roster for reliever Brad Ziegler. The righty came back to make eight starts for Triple-A Pawtucket. With the PawSox, O’Sullivan went 9-6 with a 4.02 ERA in 19 starts.

In his five big league appearances, O’Sullivan totaled a 6.75 ERA in 21 1/3 innings. He has appeared in 71 major league games with five teams, making 56 starts.weei.com

RedSoxtober
11-25-2016, 08:06 PM
Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports hears that the asking price for Chris Sale in trade talks is "maybe even higher" than it was in July.
The likelihood of the White Sox trading Sale seems higher now than it did in July, but there are also presumably more teams in on the bidding. Heyman adds that the hope is the trade talks for the left-hander will pick up during the winter meetings. Sale has finished in the top-six in American League Cy Young voting in all five of his seasons as a starter and is owed just $38 million over the next three seasons.roto

Soxfan85
11-26-2016, 12:45 PM
Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald reports that the Giants have considered trying to acquire Pablo Sandoval from the Red Sox.
Sandoval missed nearly the entire 2016 season due to a left shoulder injury and is still owed another $58 million through 2019. Red Sox president Dave Dombrowski could be willing to eat part of Sandoval's salary in order to clear the way for Yoan Moncada to take over at third base while saving some on what looks to be an awful contract dished out by his predecessor. Sandoval loved his time playing for the Giants and manager Bruce Bochy seems to know how to handle him, making a reunion potentially viable

Roto

BoSox47
11-26-2016, 12:46 PM
Considering the price I'd rather go after Quintana than Sale.

Green_Monster
11-26-2016, 09:03 PM
roto

Stay away Dombrowski. If he gets traded for anywhere near what the White Sox want, it's not worth it.

RedSoxtober
11-27-2016, 12:19 AM
Considering the price I'd rather go after Quintana than Sale.

ChiSox reportedly more interested in keeping Quintana than Sale. Quintana may be the only name they will not discuss at the moment.

RedSoxtober
11-27-2016, 12:22 AM
Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times mentioned Blake Swihart as a possible trade target for the Rays.

The Rays were known to be interested in Jason Castro before he signed a three-year, $24.5 million deal with Minnesota earlier this month. With Castro off the market, the Rays are likely to explore trade options at catcher. One possibility is Swihart, who could be expendable now that Sandy Leon has emerged as Boston's everyday catcher. Swihart was playing left field when he hurt his ankle last season, though the Red Sox claim he'll enter spring training as a catcher.via roto

RedSoxtober
11-27-2016, 12:24 AM
Dodgers signed RHP Madison Younginer to a minor league contract.
The 26-year-old hurler appeared in eight games for the Braves in 2016, compiling a 6.43 ERA, 2.29 WHIP and 4/4 K/BB ratio in seven innings. He'll add minor league bullpen depth for the Dodgers.

Rockies signed INF Derrik Gibson to a minor league contract.
The 27-year-old was a second-round selection of the Red Sox from the 2008 draft but has yet to pan out as hoped. He spent the 2016 season in the Mets' organization where he slashed .281/.363/.362 with two homers, 35 RBI and 14 stolen bases in 107 games at Double-A Binghamton.

Diamondbacks signed INF/OF Kris Negron to a minor league contract.
The 30-year-old utilityman spent the 2016 season in the Cubs' organization, slashing .256/.308/.403 with nine homers, 43 RBI and 23 stolen bases at Triple-A Iowa. He'll provide depth at a multitude of positions for the Diamondbacks.via roto

Yes, these are completely irrelevant. It just surprised me to see these three former Sox farmhands in a list of six transactions. Gibson and Younginer were some pretty badly wasted picks.

papipapsmanny
11-27-2016, 01:42 PM
I'll again say just go hard after Jensen and sit tight. If the Sox are okay with the money over 3-4 years do it.

It is our only glaring weakness if we have one at the moment, and something that plagued DD in Detroit.

I'm not worried about the offense... even without ortiz.

In the grand scheme of things I think we would be better off trading for a lefty power bat over another rotation piece at this point.

AI
11-27-2016, 05:07 PM
Buchholz plus a prospect for V-Mart is a deal I'd gladly do with Detroit. If Clay performs, they can flip him for more pieces plus they shed the remaining salary obligations to V-Mart by trading him to us.

RedSoxtober
11-27-2016, 11:12 PM
I'll again say just go hard after Jensen and sit tight. If the Sox are okay with the money over 3-4 years do it.
It'd be an enormous mistake to have two $13+M/yr relief pitchers.


Buchholz plus a prospect for V-Mart is a deal I'd gladly do with Detroit. If Clay performs, they can flip him for more pieces plus they shed the remaining salary obligations to V-Mart by trading him to us.
IDK, while V-Mart's overall line was pretty good -- albeit a bit below his track record -- his strikeouts jumped last year. That's often a warning sign for guys in their late 30s. Salary wise the swap makes some sense though.

AI
11-28-2016, 12:38 AM
He's still a solid DH and I think his #'s will look better playing half his games at Fenway and the smaller AL East ballparks. It's only 2 years plus it's a better alternative than signing Encarnacion to a ridiculous contract that costs us a draft pick. I also like the fact that he's a switch-hitter.