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View Full Version : NBA Auction Game: 3. Gopherland vs 7. Rapscena



Shammyguy3
10-10-2016, 02:02 PM
This year, GMs sent private bids for the top players in the game, then used a draft and free agency to fill out their roster. Assume full health when voting. Which team below wins in a 7-game series?

3. Gopherland
PG: Jrue Holiday /Darren Collison
SG: Rodney Hood / Joe Johnson
SF: Kawhi /Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
PF: Blake Griffin /Patrick Patterson
C: Clint Capela /Willie Cauley-Stein

7. Rapscena
C- Steven Adams (30), Tristan Thompson (12), Jahlil Okafor (6)
PF- Marcus Morris (30), Tristan Thompson (18)
SF- Danilo Gallinari (34), Stanley Johnson (8), CJ Miles (6)
SG- Courtney Lee (32), CJ Miles (16)
PG- Stephen Curry (34), Matthew Dellavedova(14)

Sadds The Gr8
10-10-2016, 03:27 PM
Gopher matches up really well here. A PG that could do a respectable job on Curry, and they have nobody to guard Kawhi. Blake could do well also in this series. I think they win this matchup in 5 or 6

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 03:50 PM
Gopher matches up really well here. A PG that could do a respectable job on Curry, and they have nobody to guard Kawhi. Blake could do well also in this series. I think they win this matchup in 5 or 6

Jrue couldn't hold other PGs below their averages in any FG range last year, let alone doing a respectable job on Curry. He allowed the people he was defending to shoot 2.8% better than their average throughout the year. Hood's a ****** defender too and would easily cause trouble when Curry/Lee and Jrue/Hood have to switch.

Lee would also see a lot of minutes guarding Kawhi. I don't expect Lee to shut down Leonard of course but Lee holds guys to a FG% of 1.7% lower than their average and 2.9% lower on shots 15 feet out (which accounts for over 50% of where Leonard's shots come from this year).

Adams could easily defend Griffin as well considering Capela/WCS are both inexperienced and extremely lacking offensively. Adams hold guys to a FG% that is 5.2% lower than their average. Blake being quicker or more athletic isn't an excuse either considering Adams defends shots less than 10 feet at a rate of 7.3 FGA per game and holds guys to a 7.3 FG% lower than average and defends shots 15 feet and out at a rate of 5 FGA per game and holds guys 4% lowr than average. He even defends 3 point shots at 2.1 FGA per game and holds guys to 2.9 FG% lower than their average.

Tristan Thompson is also mobile enough to defend both Griffin and Kawhi when needed while Marcus Morris is no scrub either and arguably the Pistons best perimeter defender last year.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 03:52 PM
Also there was no GM vote so I just voted because I wanted to see the results whenever I went in the thread. You can just ignore it.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 03:52 PM
C- Steven Adams (30), Jahlil Okafor (18)
PF- Marcus Morris (18), Tristan Thompson (30)
SF- Danilo Gallinari (36), Marcus Morris (12), Stanley Johnson
SG- Courtney Lee (32), CJ Miles (16)
PG- Stephen Curry (38), Matthew Dellavedova(10)

Sadds The Gr8
10-10-2016, 04:17 PM
Idc enough to debate but KCP was their best defender last year. Also, you coulda just clicked "view poll results" instead of voting

mngopher35
10-10-2016, 04:33 PM
Jrue couldn't hold other PGs below their averages in any FG range last year, let alone doing a respectable job on Curry. He allowed the people he was defending to shoot 2.8% better than their average throughout the year. Hood's a ****** defender too and would easily cause trouble when Curry/Lee and Jrue/Hood have to switch.

The context of playing on the Pelicans might hurt his defensive numbers a little bit btw but I would have Jrue on Lee for part of the matchup so he wouldn't be exploited anyways, Kawhi will guard Curry.


Lee would also see a lot of minutes guarding Kawhi. I don't expect Lee to shut down Leonard of course but Lee holds guys to a FG% of 1.7% lower than their average and 2.9% lower on shots 15 feet out (which accounts for over 50% of where Leonard's shots come from this year).

To me this would be a pretty big advantage for Kawhi, the numbers don't necessarily translate once you are taking players out of their original roles (aka with smaller guy Kawhi might attack inside more and Lee might not be as good as the numbers suggest when guarding SF instead of sg's). The same way Jrue would be improved statistically with better defenders around him, Lee would likely see a drop when asking him to take more responsibility (not only guarding best player but a different position as well).


Adams could easily defend Griffin as well considering Capela/WCS are both inexperienced and extremely lacking offensively. Adams hold guys to a FG% that is 5.2% lower than their average. Blake being quicker or more athletic isn't an excuse either considering Adams defends shots less than 10 feet at a rate of 7.3 FGA per game and holds guys to a 7.3 FG% lower than average and defends shots 15 feet and out at a rate of 5 FGA per game and holds guys 4% lowr than average. He even defends 3 point shots at 2.1 FGA per game and holds guys to 2.9 FG% lower than their average.

With Lee on Kawhi and your defensive anchor on Blake the lane would be wide open and exploit the advantage even more. We can even get Curry involved with Jrue/Kawhi pick and roll. I think Adams is the only option to slow Blake down (again playing out of position) and that opens up the paint for my team to attack.


Tristan Thompson is also mobile enough to defend both Griffin and Kawhi when needed while Marcus Morris is no scrub either and arguably the Pistons best perimeter defender last year.

To me you have two offensive creators on your team and I have Kawhi and MKG to shut them down. While I agree Morris is probably your best option to stop Kawhi when you play him at pf I can go small ball and shut down your only two offensive threats with great defenders while also keeping very good spacing to attack offensively. I just feel like I can shut down your offensive threats pretty easily but you don't really have anyone to stop Kawhi and your best shot at stopping Blake will take your paint protector away from the hoop.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 04:39 PM
Idc enough to debate but KCP was their best defender last year. Also, you coulda just clicked "view poll results" instead of voting

I don't use the app and it's hard to click view on the phone sometimes. Forgot about KCP but Morris definitely stepped up his defense last year. Was holding guys to a 3.5% lower FGA 15 feet and out (KCP was 1.6% lower) and overall both held guys to 1.9% (Morris) and 1.7% (KCP) lower overall. KCP was probably defending the better defender but when Harris came to Detroit, Morris definitely had to take on more responsibility defensively.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 04:44 PM
The context of playing on the Pelicans might hurt his defensive numbers a little bit btw but I would have Jrue on Lee for part of the matchup so he wouldn't be exploited anyways, Kawhi will guard Curry.

Jrue wasn't exactly great defensively the year before either. Putting Kawhi on curry would be a field day for Danilo on a non-existent defender in Hood, who doesn't need Curry at all to create his own offense.



To me this would be a pretty big advantage for Kawhi, the numbers don't necessarily translate once you are taking players out of their original roles (aka with smaller guy Kawhi might attack inside more and Lee might not be as good as the numbers suggest when guarding SF instead of sg's). The same way Jrue would be improved statistically with better defenders around him, Lee would likely see a drop when asking him to take more responsibility (not only guarding best player but a different position as well).

Lee has defended the likes on Kobe, Butler, Carmelo, PG, etc on a daily basis the past few years and has been the same 3-D player all these years. Kawhi's obviously good but not sure why we'd suddenly and "likely" see a drop in Lee's production when he isn't the first or last elite scorer Lee will be defending.


With Lee on Kawhi and your defensive anchor on Blake the lane would be wide open and exploit the advantage even more. We can even get Curry involved with Jrue/Kawhi pick and roll. I think Adams is the only option to slow Blake down (again playing out of position) and that opens up the paint for my team to attack.

Curry's a + defender and Morris/Thompson are more than mobile enough to rotate on Kawhi. This isn't a "gimme point" like you're making it out to be. Not to mention you just said you'd go small so Blake is playing C, so not sure how Adams defending Griffin is playing out of position.


To me you have two offensive creators on your team and I have Kawhi and MKG to shut them down. While I agree Morris is probably your best option to stop Kawhi when you play him at pf I can go small ball and shut down your only two offensive threats with great defenders while also keeping very good spacing to attack offensively. I just feel like I can shut down your offensive threats pretty easily but you don't really have anyone to stop Kawhi and your best shot at stopping Blake will take your paint protector away from the hoop.

MKG is a handicap on offense. Sure he's a good defender but if you're keeping him on the floor, that helps our team double your players on the inside that much more. MKG's going to have to operate much closer to the basket (since he can't shoot a midrange or 3 to save his life) so if you are threatening to have Kawhi score inside like you said earlier in the post, then we would be able to double team much more easily. It's not going to stop Kawhi of course but would make it up easier for us defensively as well.

Not to mention Kawhi has barely defended point guards all year (and that's with a handicap of Tony Parker at PG) and when he did defend Curry, this happened (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHI19eUliM).

mngopher35
10-10-2016, 05:16 PM
Jrue wasn't exactly great defensively the year before either. Putting Kawhi on curry would be a field day for Danilo on a non-existent defender in Hood, who doesn't need Curry at all to create his own offense.

MKG can easily guard Gallo though and it shuts down your only two playmakers. With Kawhi/MKG on Curry/Gallo it leaves a playmaking burden on Lee/Morris/Adams/Thompson, I see that as an issue for you. Even if he does hurt my spacing I at least have other scoring options on my team to create, your team would struggle a ton if those two are getting locked up to an extent.




Lee has defended the likes on Kobe, Butler, Carmelo, PG, etc on a daily basis the past few years and has been the same 3-D player all these years. Kawhi's obviously good but not sure why we'd "likely" see a drop in Lee's production when he isn't the first or last elite scorer Lee will be defending.

From memory the Grizzlies used Allen on the best offensive players and Batum was the SF for Charlotte so Lee has almost always been on guards (like Kobe who you mention but not so much the bigger guys). I think he is a solid defender even still but asking him to guard the elite wings like a Kawhi has not been his role at all from what I remember. I would be open to seeing some numbers that say different but I always remember him as a 2 guard with others taking that role.

Edit: I looked at those defensive stats you mentioned and when you narrow it down to within 10 feet or 6 feet of the hoop he allowed players to shoot above their normal averages (by 5 and 8.5 % jump actually).


Curry's a + defender and Morris/Thompson are more than mobile enough to rotate on Kawhi. This isn't a "gimme point" like you're making it out to be. Not to mention you just said you'd go small so Blake is playing C, so not sure how Adams defending Griffin is playing out of position.

It is a huge advantage when you have a smaller sg guarding a premier player like Kawhi and your anchor is out of the lane on my other premier guy. I think you are trying to downplay this if anything. If I am going small what I mean by out of position is away from the hoop since he will be on Blake when he normally is a rim protector.




MKG is a handicap on offense. Sure he's a good defender but if you're keeping him on the floor, that helps our team double your players on the inside that much more. MKG's going to have to operate much closer to the basket (since he can't shoot a midrange or 3 to save his life) so if you are threatening to have Kawhi score inside like you said earlier in the post, then we would be able to double team much more easily. It's not going to stop Kawhi of course but would make it up easier for us defensively as well.

Double teaming off MKG so he can attack the hoop freely while Adams is out on Blake is easy buckets and wouldn't deter me at all. I trust Kawhi to make the right plays and he can either attack the one on one or pass when doubled. While I do agree MKG hurts the spacing, you allowing small ball with Morris in the game allows me to keep other spacers on the floor keeping the lane open.


Not to mention Kawhi has barely defended point guards all year (and that's with a handicap of Tony Parker at PG) and when he did defend Curry, this happened (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHI19eUliM).

Yet we saw him guarding Westy over Durant for a good chunk of the playoff series (and do a good job). Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the league. You can show your youtube highlight to downplay that but I think it is widely agreed on so I don't have an issue with Kawhi on Curry, better than trying to play Lee on Kawhi.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-10-2016, 05:42 PM
MKG can easily guard Gallo though and it shuts down your only two playmakers. With Kawhi/MKG on Curry/Gallo it leaves a playmaking burden on Lee/Morris/Adams/Thompson, I see that as an issue for you. Even if he does hurt my spacing I at least have other scoring options on my team to create, your team would struggle a ton if those two are getting locked up to an extent.

I get thinking they will limit them down scoring wise (you're not shutting them down) but you're definitely exaggerating if you think 1 on 1 defense is going to limit playmaking by that much.



From memory the Grizzlies used Allen on the best offensive players and Batum was the SF for Charlotte so Lee has almost always been on guards (like Kobe who you mention but not so much the bigger guys). I think he is a solid defender even still but asking him to guard the elite wings like a Kawhi has not been his role at all from what I remember. I would be open to seeing some numbers that say different but I always remember him as a 2 guard with others taking that role.

Lee has experience defending bigger players. He's obviously at a disadvantage as he's smaller but not sure why you want to make it as if Kawhi's going to be the biggest guy he's ever defended or that this is his first time defending a bigger player. He's obviously not going to be on him all game anyway if you are going to play small ball as you mentioned anyway.


It is a huge advantage when you have a smaller sg guarding a premier player like Kawhi and your anchor is out of the lane on my other premier guy. I think you are trying to downplay this if anything. If I am going small what I mean by out of position is away from the hoop since he will be on Blake when he normally is a rim protector.

Actually, no. If you were playing small ball, then I wouldn't have Lee on Kawhi for long periods of time. I'd have Morris/Thompson (both + defenders).

Not to mention nearly 60% of Blake's FGA are within 9 feet from the basket. How far exactly do you want Blake Griffin to stand away from the basket? That's easily close enough to provide help defense at the rim, especially considering Adams has had plenty of experience this year guarding perimeter players and providing inside help defense when he was beside Kanter.


Double teaming off MKG so he can attack the hoop freely while Adams is out on Blake is easy buckets and wouldn't deter me at all. I trust Kawhi to make the right plays and he can either attack the one on one or pass when doubled. While I do agree MKG hurts the spacing, you allowing small ball with Morris in the game allows me to keep other spacers on the floor keeping the lane open.

Well now isn't that a little unfair thinking MKG is going easy buckets when Kawhi would have 2 + defenders double teaming him but Curry and Gallo's playmaking are suddenly going to be shut down.



Yet we saw him guarding Westy over Durant for a good chunk of the playoff series (and do a good job). Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the league. You can show your youtube highlight to downplay that but I think it is widely agreed on so I don't have an issue with Kawhi on Curry, better than trying to play Lee on Kawhi.

So then you agree he barely defended PGs if Westy is the only example you can come up with. ;)

Obviously Kawhi is an elite defender and I wasn't trying to downplay anything. That video obviously doesn't represent Kawhi on defense but my point with that video is he's defending the best offensive player in the league at a position he doesn't defend as much as SF (or SG/PF). You're definitely exaggerating if you think that shuts down both his scoring AND playmaking (like you just said earlier).

Shammyguy3
10-10-2016, 05:58 PM
Also there was no GM vote so I just voted because I wanted to see the results whenever I went in the thread. You can just ignore it.

i added the GM vote and switched yours from Gopher to GM

mngopher35
10-10-2016, 06:21 PM
I get thinking they will limit them down scoring wise (you're not shutting them down) but you're definitely exaggerating if you think 1 on 1 defense is going to limit playmaking by that much.

You don't have scorers next to them though is the point so it would really hurt your teams output if they needed to carry a bigger load with those two having tougher matchups. I think having the best wing defender and a really good one is going to slow you down far more than Lee on Kawhi or Adams on Blake. Outside of that I think a mix of Jrue/Collison/Hood/Joe Johnson is more offense from my depth/surrounding players than your team has on top of that.




Lee has experience defending bigger players. He's obviously at a disadvantage as he's smaller but not sure why you want to make it as if Kawhi's going to be the biggest guy he's ever defended or that this is his first time defending a bigger player. He's obviously not going to be on him all game anyway if you are going to play small ball as you mentioned anyway.

I am just pointing out that the numbers used don't necessarily translate and that he easily could struggle on a bigger premier player like Kawhi who he normally does not guard. I not only have the ability to lock up your top scorers to an extent but also have an advantage on the other end with Kawhi.




Actually, no. If you were playing small ball, then I wouldn't have Lee on Kawhi for long periods of time. I'd have Morris/Thompson (both + defenders).

Thompson on Kawhi? I will mostly play small ball when Morris is at pf but can you explain why you want Thompson on Kawhi? I think that is an even bigger advantage than Lee...


Not to mention nearly 60% of Blake's FGA are within 9 feet from the basket. How far exactly do you want Blake Griffin to stand away from the basket? That's easily close enough to provide help defense at the rim, especially considering Adams has had plenty of experience this year guarding perimeter players and providing inside help defense when he was beside Kanter.

Which is part of the reason their defense fell off so much when Kanter was out there, lack of rim protection when Adams had other responsibilities (or Ibaka for what it's worth). That is my point about changing his role from primarily trying to protect the paint to primarily stopping Blake.

Blake will many times initiate the offense from the top of the key etc. but even if Adams rotates in time Blake now has nothing to stop him and Adams out of position. I would really like to get your defense rotating a lot like that and getting the ball to Blake without much resistance. He will still be shooting close to the hoop but it will be off of his attacking more than just standing close to it so Adams can protect the paint.




Well now isn't that a little unfair thinking MKG is going easy buckets when Kawhi would have 2 + defenders double teaming him but Curry and Gallo's playmaking are suddenly going to be shut down.

Me putting those top defenders on them helps the rest of my defense have to worry about helping a little bit less while you double teaming players opens things up. There is a pretty big difference between the two strategies, not sure what you are getting at here at all.


So then you agree he barely defended PGs if Westy is the only example you can come up with. ;)

Obviously Kawhi is an elite defender and I wasn't trying to downplay anything. That video obviously doesn't represent Kawhi on defense but my point with that video is he's defending the best offensive player in the league at a position he doesn't defend as much as SF (or SG/PF). You're definitely exaggerating if you think that shuts down both his scoring AND playmaking (like you just said earlier).

I am not saying Curry becomes irrelevent but when you are relying on him so much like this team will having Kawhi on him is big. My point with that is Kawhi has proven capable of guarding pg's and is asked to guard the best when it matters most (playoffs). Again I think people have seen enough of Kawhi to know he can guard all perimeter positions at an elite level and when a playoff series comes around and you need to shut down the other teams pg he is still definitely the guy you want (as that reference was trying to imply).

Sorry if shut down wasn't appropriate, you will never fully shut down a superstar like Curry so we can agree it isn't like that (and I didn't mean for it to come off like that). If saying shut down is your big hold up then let me explain further what I was trying to say.

I have an elite (the best?) defender to really limit the impact Curry has offensively and also a very good defender to do the same to Gallo. With your team specifically this hurts because there is a lack of playmaking/scoring around them already so to have a big burden and top level defenders should really impact your teams offense. Not saying shut them down as in they won't score/playmake still, just in that it will hurt the team overall having them have to do so much with such good defenders on them.

KnicksorBust
10-11-2016, 11:46 AM
Really like Raps team this game. Great balance. Love Thompson off the bench at both big man spots. But Gopherland takes the series here. I love that he didn't play games and just flat out said I'm going Kawhi on Curry the whole series. Raps doesn't have the perimeter players to really make him pay for that strategy. Galinari is solid but better suited for a #3 and guys like Adams/TT/Lee are not playmakers.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-11-2016, 02:10 PM
Lol since the results are basically confirmed, if were being honest, his team is definitely better here. :laugh2:

The_Jamal
10-12-2016, 06:12 PM
Jrue
Hood
Healthy MKG
Kawhi
Blake

is a sweet small-ball lineup