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valade16
10-05-2016, 06:16 PM
For your favorite franchise, or just picking a franchise, what team do you think was their best team ever? Not going so much for accolades as which team do you think talent wise was the best?

I'll use a couple examples:

My Blazers. One could argue the 1977 Blazers because they won the title that year. But you could also argue the 1992 Blazers that lost to MJ in the Finals or the 00 Blazers that lost to the Lakers in the WCF.

The Lakers. What was THE best Lakers team? The 72 West/Chamberlain/Goodrich squad? One of the Magic squads? The 00 Lakers?

I have a feeling some teams will be obvious but figure it could be fun to think of the less obvious ones.

Miltstar
10-05-2016, 06:43 PM
Mine is easy, this years Raptors I think will be even better than last years franchise record holding squad

ManRam
10-05-2016, 08:01 PM
The Magic have made the Finals twice and I think those two teams are clearly 2 of the franchise's 3 best, along with the 09-10 team. I think if that 09-10 team got past the Celtics they'd be the choice for me.

I lean 08-09, however. League best defense. The height of Dwight's dominance. The complimentary pieces were at their best. Jameer and Rashard were All-Stars. Turkoglu was a 17-5-5 player, and one of the few capable "point-forwards". Redick, Courtney Lee, Gortat, Pietrus, Alston, Battie...it was a well-crafted team.

The team as a whole was slightly ahead of its time too. They played small and really took advantage of the three point shot before many other teams were. Back then we called shooting 2000+ threes in a season "living and dying by the three". Now half the league is shooting over 2000 threes (vs. 2 in 2009), and only the Warriors are made over 38% of them, like the Magic did in 2009.

I know Shaq and Penny are names, but I think that 2009 team was better all around.

TheMightyHumph
10-05-2016, 08:19 PM
Nets '73-'74 team.

Brian Taylor, Super John Williamson, Julius, Larry Kenon, Billy Paultz, Wendell Ladner, Mike Gale, Billy Melchionni

Raps18-19 Champ
10-05-2016, 09:10 PM
2016 Cavs.

IndyRealist
10-05-2016, 09:22 PM
2000 Pacers: Our only Finals appearance. Rik Smits would retire and Bird would retire from coaching. The team was blown up after that.

2004 Pacers: 61 wins, top 10 offense and top 3 defense. Would go into 2004-05 the favorites to win it all. Then the Malice happened. 7 games into the season, Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season and the team would total 137 games suspended that season, including playoffs.

2014 Pacers: First half of the season had a historic defense anchored by Roy Hibbert. Paul George would go to the All-Star game. Then Lance Stephenson got snubbed for the ASG, and the team imploded. That summer, Paul George would break his leg in a Team USA exhibition game.

JordansBulls
10-05-2016, 10:00 PM
1991 Bulls

Pierzynski4Prez
10-05-2016, 11:52 PM
2000 Pacers: Our only Finals appearance. Rik Smits would retire and Bird would retire from coaching. The team was blown up after that.

2004 Pacers: 61 wins, top 10 offense and top 3 defense. Would go into 2004-05 the favorites to win it all. Then the Malice happened. 7 games into the season, Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season and the team would total 137 games suspended that season, including playoffs.

2014 Pacers: First half of the season had a historic defense anchored by Roy Hibbert. Paul George would go to the All-Star game. Then Lance Stephenson got snubbed for the ASG, and the team imploded. That summer, Paul George would break his leg in a Team USA exhibition game.

What about the 98 pacers? That was really the only team I was nervous about facing during the Bull's title runs (with the exception of the Knicks during 1st 3 peat). Took us to 7 and just about every game came down to the wire.

JAZZNC
10-05-2016, 11:59 PM
97-98 Jazz. It's kind of a no brainer.

I was kinda hoping this was a thread about forming the best from all past and current players for your franchise, but there is another thread idea!

mrblisterdundee
10-06-2016, 12:13 AM
My Blazers. One could argue the 1977 Blazers because they won the title that year. But you could also argue the 1992 Blazers that lost to MJ in the Finals or the 00 Blazers that lost to the Lakers in the WCF.

It's a tough call between 1977 and 1992. You're talking about different eras, no three-point line a team centered around its front court, versus one based around the back court.
I'm taking Drexler's Blazers. He, Porter and Ainge would rain on the throwbacks. Lucas and Walton would dominate the paint, but I think Kersey, Davis and Robinson could still hold their own.
I'm still pissed about the Blazers trading O'Neal (Just give the boy some minutes!) for "Stale" Dale Davis. Imagine a 2000-01 Blazers with O'Neal and Wallace anchoring the middle while Pippen, Smith and Stoudamire rain threes from the perimeter. That front court could have driven so many good teams.
... then I remember about the Blazers trading Moses Malone. :mad:

rhino17
10-06-2016, 01:07 AM
Favorite and Best 93-94 Rockets: Hakeem, OT, Mad Max, Horry, Kenny, Sam Cassel, Mario and Amigo


Another personal favorite was the 08-09 team, so good but so many injuries.

Yao, Scola, Battier, Artest, McGrady, Brooks, Lowry, Landry, Mutombo, Hayes

Hawkeye15
10-06-2016, 09:36 AM
03-04' Wolves

kdspurman
10-06-2016, 10:05 AM
There are a few that come to mind, but I think I'd go with the 99 team and the 14 team. Very different styles, but each dominant in their own right.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2016, 10:12 AM
There are a few that come to mind, but I think I'd go with the 99 team and the 14 team. Very different styles, but each dominant in their own right.

the 2014 Spurs team, after game 3 against the Mavs, would have beaten any team in history. That is how well they played. Best basketball I have ever seen. I was waiting for the picket fence to be run at some point..

Scoots
10-06-2016, 10:12 AM
Mine is easy, this years Raptors I think will be even better than last years franchise record holding squad

Same answer for me. 2017 Warriors since talent is the barometer and accolades like winning a title don't count.

kdspurman
10-06-2016, 10:26 AM
the 2014 Spurs team, after game 3 against the Mavs, would have beaten any team in history. That is how well they played. Best basketball I have ever seen. I was waiting for the picket fence to be run at some point..

haha. Yea, I agree. And ironically, I don't think it happens if not for the way we lost the prior year. It made it worth it to witness that level of play. Definitely my favorite run/moment as a fan

Scoots
10-06-2016, 12:35 PM
2014 Spurs is what cemented Pop as a top 5 coach all time. It's so rare for a head coach to not only be able to coach, but to embrace multiple styles and systems in their career and far more rare to find a coach who can do that and master the different styles as well.

PhillyFaninLA
10-06-2016, 12:56 PM
One of the best teams of all time....the 1966-67 Sixers

dhopisthename
10-06-2016, 01:29 PM
97-98 Jazz. It's kind of a no brainer.

I was kinda hoping this was a thread about forming the best from all past and current players for your franchise, but there is another thread idea!

yeah if it weren't for two terrible calls(not the Jordan push-off) its possible that team takes the bulls to a game 7 where the home team wins 80% of the time. Not to mention that Pippen was hurt.

Chronz
10-06-2016, 01:32 PM
The Magic have made the Finals twice and I think those two teams are clearly 2 of the franchise's 3 best, along with the 09-10 team. I think if that 09-10 team got past the Celtics they'd be the choice for me.

I lean 08-09, however. League best defense. The height of Dwight's dominance. The complimentary pieces were at their best. Jameer and Rashard were All-Stars. Turkoglu was a 17-5-5 player, and one of the few capable "point-forwards". Redick, Courtney Lee, Gortat, Pietrus, Alston, Battie...it was a well-crafted team.

The team as a whole was slightly ahead of its time too. They played small and really took advantage of the three point shot before many other teams were. Back then we called shooting 2000+ threes in a season "living and dying by the three". Now half the league is shooting over 2000 threes (vs. 2 in 2009), and only the Warriors are made over 38% of them, like the Magic did in 2009.

I know Shaq and Penny are names, but I think that 2009 team was better all around.

Just names? Thats selling the team short, it was ahead of its time too, with 3 huge swings to go with the best frontcourt partner Shaq has ever had. Still if they are just names, what you gave are just arbitrary accomplishments. Why would they have to beat a squad that the team you favor never had to face? Making the Finals is just a thing, right?

Sure you made the Finals those 2 years but do the Magic make it if instead of facing undermanned squads they face the superior version of the team they defeated the year prior?

Do the 08 Magic defeat the 09 Celtics? You guys BARELY scraped by a KG-less Celtics, I dont think they make the Finals if hes there, not even if he never gets hurt because that much is obvious but even a KG that had yet to truly recover from his injury and just lugging that 1 leg around, he gets by that team. You bring up the RS but the very next year they won the same amount of games and displayed a higher level of efficiency overall. To me, that VC team takes out your Hedo team, the only reason it wasn't as successful was because the Celtics weren't at full capacity.

Same thing with the other Finals team. They won more games the next year despite massive amount of missed games due to injury to Shaq, the only reason they didn't make the Finals was because instead of taking on a Bulls team that had yet to build its team to beat them (those 3 tall guards were a load and precipitated the importance of Ron Harper for Phil) they faced a 72 win juggernaut that had a fully conditioned MJ and added Rodman. Not to mention Horace Grant's injury.

For Orlando, gimme the 97 and 2010 team over the teams that advanced further in the playoffs.

Chronz
10-06-2016, 01:36 PM
1991 Bulls

Very interested to hear your thoughts, always thought you would favor the 92 OR 93 team

Chronz
10-06-2016, 01:45 PM
This years Clips are mine.


There are a few that come to mind, but I think I'd go with the 99 team and the 14 team. Very different styles, but each dominant in their own right.

07 grades the highest in the RS and thats when they were beginning the whole rest/coast mode. This past years team grades the absolute highest but they lost in R.2, which I blame on not having the same Tim Duncan. Its tricky question because how do we consider injuries, minutes, competition. Like the '14 team you mentioned may not have graded out the best but come playoffs, it could play its best lineups longer, so maybe it was a better team that was coasting/resting more during the RS.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2016, 01:52 PM
Very interested to hear your thoughts, always thought you would favor the 92 OR 93 team

Depends on what you weigh. RS, or Playoffs? Most value the playoffs obviously. It's easy for a team like mine. But for teams who live in the playoffs every year, RS is overvalued I think.

valade16
10-06-2016, 02:05 PM
Depends on what you weigh. RS, or Playoffs? Most value the playoffs obviously. It's easy for a team like mine. But for teams who live in the playoffs every year, RS is overvalued I think.

Which is why the question is so interesting to me. I want to dig past the "this team won a title" or "that team won more RS games" to see what teams people think were truly the best but may not have those accolades for whatever reason (be it injuries, tougher competition, etc.).

I think the best a Portland team has ever played was actually in 1978, the year after the Blazers won the title. They were 48-10 with Walton that season and won an insane 16 of those 48 games by over 20 points. They were well on their way to being one of the greatest teams and possibly dynasties of all-time until Walton's untimely injury derailed everything.

Chronz
10-06-2016, 02:09 PM
Looking through +/- the past 16 years and its ****ing crazy how often the Spurs have the most efficient lineup in the league, they just dont use those lineups as often. Like the Pistons and Suns have comparable lineups in some years but they rely on it almost exclusively. Its nothing I didn't already know or intuitively feel but seeing the numbers really highlights how the Spurs used the RS as marathon rather than a full sprint. Was gonna try making the case that we should value each teams top 5 man lineup the most but found some funky results. Like Kobe-Shaq not really grading as high as you would hope but then again, they half assed it and turned it on in the playoffs too. Found some interesting stuff tho, like in 03, the 2 best lineups to play over 350 minutes were the Spurs and Nets, the 2 Conference Champs. Maybe we should have given them more credit as a threat, I know plenty were surprised it wasn't a sweep, they did give the Spurs their toughest fight that year.

Really hard to gauge motivation but I tend to give repeat champs leeway.

Like the Bulls in 93 didn't win as much but they were possibly the best iteration of the Bulls team in the sense that MJ had a fully developed cast by then. They didn't win as much but they were coming off the Olympics and had already won 2 in a row. This is why I tell people not to get so excited or carried away with the fact that the Bulls only lost 5 more games without MJ, they were much better than the 57 or so wins they chose to win. The loss of MJ was far more than a mere 5 games, the level of play was well beneath them. Those 52 wins were them going full bore without MJ and having added Kukoc

Chronz
10-06-2016, 02:24 PM
Depends on what you weigh. RS, or Playoffs? Most value the playoffs obviously. It's easy for a team like mine. But for teams who live in the playoffs every year, RS is overvalued I think.

Agreed, MJ was special in the sense that he was relentless and could find motivation anywhere but 93 was as close to a coast mode I've ever seen from him. How do you distinguish those Bulls squads says alot about your values. The 4th and 5th champs grade the highest but that was in a weaker/expanded era where their best player got an artificial boost in efficiency thanks to the shortened 3pt line (the years MJ suddenly became a 40% marksman). I havent checked the SRS above standard deviation but I wouldn't be surprised if by that barometer it grades lower than 92.

92 is the most impressive RS to me because it was a stronger league (possibly, I dunno) it had a more athletic MJ with Pippen and Grant at the top of their games but it lacked the overall depth, lost more playoff games than we're accustomed to and was alil too close to elimination. Still, thats a small sample and they won in every year.

91 shows us a sweep of Detroit and only 2 losses the entire playoffs but the least impressive RS, still that was apex MJ and Pippen had his best playoff showing statistically.

Its a hard one to crack, I respect any choice except for 98. Kerr personally thinks the 69 win team was better than the 72 win team, in part because the target on their back didn't deter them but also because they picked up Bison Dele which gave them a legit post defender off the bench.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-06-2016, 03:08 PM
86 Celtics.

kdspurman
10-06-2016, 03:45 PM
This years Clips are mine.



07 grades the highest in the RS and thats when they were beginning the whole rest/coast mode. This past years team grades the absolute highest but they lost in R.2, which I blame on not having the same Tim Duncan. Its tricky question because how do we consider injuries, minutes, competition. Like the '14 team you mentioned may not have graded out the best but come playoffs, it could play its best lineups longer, so maybe it was a better team that was coasting/resting more during the RS.

Yea, there were probably a few to choose from lol. But yea it's tough to gauge them cause their RS you don't always see their best play/lineups. I guess I ended up going with their success in the playoffs and the fashion in which they won.

Otherwise, there were certainly some reg season teams to point to. I always thought the 2012 team that won 20 in a row and lost was very good, 04 of course I think they were #1 in MOV & SRS & Drtg. Just, ****ing Fisher...

mngopher35
10-06-2016, 04:20 PM
03-04' Wolves

Ya pretty easy for us and kinda sad that's all we really have. Oh well, I expect it to change in the somewhat near future...

Stunner
10-06-2016, 07:38 PM
90-91 Chicago Bulls

Chronz
10-06-2016, 08:14 PM
90-91 Chicago Bulls

That makes 2 of you. Why come?

joeym
10-06-2016, 08:28 PM
I think people forget how good the Nets were in the ABA..

Chronz
10-06-2016, 08:43 PM
I think people forget how good the Nets were in the ABA..

Maybe we just know they would have lost vs the best in the NBA. The Finals with Sixers vs the Blazers was sorta seen as the ABA vs the NBA and that went the NBA's way.

TheMightyHumph
10-06-2016, 09:38 PM
Maybe we just know they would have lost vs the best in the NBA. The Finals with Sixers vs the Blazers was sorta seen as the ABA vs the NBA and that went the NBA's way.

Nope. Blazers high scorer was ABAer Maurice Lucas, and they started Dave Twardzik from the ABA most of the season.

'74 Nets certainly would have been an upper echelon team in the NBA.

TheMightyHumph
10-06-2016, 09:57 PM
One of the best teams of all time....the 1966-67 Sixers

Certainly one of the best. Wilt's determination year.

Stunner
10-07-2016, 01:47 AM
That makes 2 of you. Why come?

Jordan was younger posting his 2nd highest PER of his career at 31.6 . 61 Win record vs tougher teams than the 95-96 Bulls who had a few expansion rosters I believe . That 91 team prob lose 5 games with a 95-96 schedule . Plus 28 year old Jordan with the hand check rule eliminated , yikes .

Jeffy25
10-07-2016, 05:40 PM
97-98 Jazz. It's kind of a no brainer.

I was kinda hoping this was a thread about forming the best from all past and current players for your franchise, but there is another thread idea!

create it

ManningToTyree
10-08-2016, 10:27 AM
73 Knicks. Multiple HoFers, dominated the finals 4-1 against chamberlain and West's Lakers