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View Full Version : DUBS - A quick fix or a long term dynasty?



Mave1002
09-29-2016, 08:23 AM
Stephen Curry will resigning for about a billion dollars so yeah... Heading into 2017 I can't help but wonder.. do their FO hold the big four together and maintain a decent bench (West/Iggy/Livingston) at the same time?

1.) David West - Unless he comes back for the vets min.. I think he walks after this year. James McAdoo can be the back-up for Draymond Green for a long time. He's coming in cheap, too.

2.) Shaun Livingston - He should be the top priority for these Warriors. High I.Q. guy who provides super quality minutes and top-notch defense. Though let's not forget the 20- year old, 6'7" Pat McCaw who's basically a clone with a three-point game.

3.) Andre Igoudala - The best player off the bench, a super-sub. Again, I think it will be dependent on how much he will be commanding but should he look for something beyond the teams' budget.. another 20-year old Kevon Looney will be backing up Kevin Durant. Kids' just oozing with potential.

*The center position - I think Andrew Bogut comes back next year and signs for cheap -- backed up by the young Damian Jones and perhaps, Varejao signs for vets min

*Free-agent market - After all the re-signings, the FO checks the back-up SG position and it's empty. They realize Kyle Korver is a UFA. It could be a good kind of OVERKILL for the entire organization, even if they don't get Iggy back.

Bogut/Jones
Green/McAdoo
KD/Looney
Klay/Korver
Steph/Livingston

Should all of these things happen, the league could look forward to a long-term Warriors dynasty.

Hawkeye15
09-29-2016, 01:24 PM
as long as they hold a core of 3 of the following 4, they are odds on favorites the next 4-5 years:

Curry
Green
Durant
Thompson

They could lose Thompson, or Durant, and still be favorites.

COOLbeans
09-29-2016, 03:17 PM
as a Warriors fan going back to the 80s, Id have to admit that im partial to our homegrown Warriors, Curry, Thompson and Green. Obviously Durant's better than all of those guys, albeit Curry is just as affective imo, Id rather hole onto those 3 guys rather than Durant for sentimental and loyalty purposes.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-29-2016, 04:04 PM
I think the Warriors are pretty much set. Other then maintain a decent bench next few years with little cap.

mrblisterdundee
09-29-2016, 04:29 PM
The Warriors are younger, which will help them afford to keep the roster together.
Green and Thompson combined will cost the Warriors about $103 million over the next three seasons. Compare that to $85.5 million Memphis will pay over the same period for just Mike Conley. Green and Thompson practically took the Heatles discount with the Warriors. Even Kevin Durant at $26 to $27 million is cheaper than Conley.
Curry's going to start at more than $30 million, and their big four will cost at least $92 million. But I don't think the bench situation will be as dire as Miami's was. The Warriors will just have to rely on rookies and ring-chasers in their twilight.

TrueFan420
09-29-2016, 04:46 PM
The Warriors are younger, which will help them afford to keep the roster together.
Green and Thompson combined will cost the Warriors about $103 million over the next three seasons. Compare that to $85.5 million Memphis will pay over the same period for just Mike Conley. Green and Thompson practically took the Heatles discount with the Warriors. Even Kevin Durant at $26 to $27 million is cheaper than Conley.
Curry's going to start at more than $30 million, and their big four will cost at least $92 million. But I don't think the bench situation will be as dire as Miami's was. The Warriors will just have to rely on rookies and ring-chasers in their twilight.

The warriors also have a D league affiliate that is set up to play as they do with the same plays and concepts. Will help them develop some players for the end of the bench with continuity of their system and expectations. Not saying we'll turn out players left and right from the d league but we've had some success from there before.

kobe4thewinbang
09-29-2016, 08:06 PM
as long as they hold a core of 3 of the following 4, they are odds on favorites the next 4-5 years:

Curry
Green
Durant
Thompson

They could lose Thompson, or Durant, and still be favorites.Disagree. Curry has a bad night, and that bench ain't winning jack without Klay going into beast mode or Durant going coldblooded.

cmellofan15
09-29-2016, 10:02 PM
These guys are a long term dynasty with any role players by their side. Arguably the best 2 scorers in the league, and 3 of their guys can play elite defense.

europagnpilgrim
09-29-2016, 11:38 PM
Barring any major injury(s) then it is long term as far as the next 5 yrs go, they are proven without KD so keeping him or letting him walk in 2 years wont derail them much if they keep the other 3 together and add on quality support

if they keep all 4 together they could pull a Heat and go to 4 straight Finals and possibly 8(counting the already two in a row) in a row done by the old Celtics and would have been done had Jordan decided to play the 94 and entire 95' seasons, they are built to do it regardless of the depth they have loss from the bench just from a pure top heavy talent view

Hawkeye15
09-30-2016, 09:46 AM
Disagree. Curry has a bad night, and that bench ain't winning jack without Klay going into beast mode or Durant going coldblooded.

I said they could lose one or the other (or meant it that way), and still be favorites.

Think about it....they were clear favorites this year, prior to signing Durant. Losing him would do nothing to affect them still being favorites.

Ty Fast
09-30-2016, 09:59 AM
The Warriors are younger, which will help them afford to keep the roster together.
Green and Thompson combined will cost the Warriors about $103 million over the next three seasons. Compare that to $85.5 million Memphis will pay over the same period for just Mike Conley. Green and Thompson practically took the Heatles discount with the Warriors. Even Kevin Durant at $26 to $27 million is cheaper than Conley.
Curry's going to start at more than $30 million, and their big four will cost at least $92 million. But I don't think the bench situation will be as dire as Miami's was. The Warriors will just have to rely on rookies and ring-chasers in their twilight.

How do u figure Klay and Green took a discount? They signed for the max at the time.

PhillyFaninLA
09-30-2016, 10:38 AM
I've said it before, it will probably work, but they didn't need a guy like KD...they only have one ball, and we don't know chemistry.

Can Curry, Durant, and Thompson work is to be seen...again it probably works because I think Curry and Durant are willing to sacrifice a bit, not sure about Thompson on that.

KnicksorBust
09-30-2016, 02:05 PM
Dynasty. I'm still surprised they lost to the Cavs. They should be going for a 3peat and be adding a top 5 player. It's just insane when you really think about it.

tredigs
09-30-2016, 04:01 PM
I've said it before, it will probably work, but they didn't need a guy like KD...they only have one ball, and we don't know chemistry.

Can Curry, Durant, and Thompson work is to be seen...again it probably works because I think Curry and Durant are willing to sacrifice a bit, not sure about Thompson on that.

Thompson is far more replaceable than Curry/KD/Draymond should he decide that he has to have more touches. I still think he buys in when it comes down to it. They're going to fall in love with how open all three can now get, and all 3 are incredible 3pt shooters. Draymond has shown he can care less how many shots he gets offensively, so that part is nice. As far as contending goes, they're a dynasty as long as they're healthy and they stay together. The ancillary pieces will come at a discount (we've already seen a bit of that), especially with a state of the art facility in SF on the horizon for them.

Scoots
09-30-2016, 05:26 PM
No reason to think Thompson is going to be an issue. He said his role isn't going to change and it isn't. When you are Thompson last year and you catch the ball and you are open, you shoot. This year it's going to be the same role.

Vinylman
09-30-2016, 06:47 PM
they have 3 years max because no way they can pay Klay without getting rid of durant or steph...

it is funny how people are in such denial over the impact of livingston and iggy... it has nothing to do with their stats it has everything to do with the fact that they can both guard 4 positions... you don't find those type of players for cheap in FA when the cap continues to climb...

Iggy will probably sign back this next offseason for cheap but there is no way livingston is taking a discount....

bottom line... the only reason they have been able to assemble the team they have is by getting players for well below their market value... that is over after this season

tredigs
09-30-2016, 07:11 PM
they have 3 years max because no way they can pay Klay without getting rid of durant or steph...

it is funny how people are in such denial over the impact of livingston and iggy... it has nothing to do with their stats it has everything to do with the fact that they can both guard 4 positions... you don't find those type of players for cheap in FA when the cap continues to climb...

Iggy will probably sign back this next offseason for cheap but there is no way livingston is taking a discount....

bottom line... the only reason they have been able to assemble the team they have is by getting players for well below their market value... that is over after this season

It's over after this season? Might want to re-think those #'s.

Draymond Green is signed through 2020 (5 years 82 million)
Klay Thompson is signed through 2019 (contract extension at ~17mil a year. Roughly 7 mil a year less than Barnes)
KD can fit under the (new) cap due to the massive rise due to the TV ratings.
Curry has Bird Rights and they can go well over the cap if need be to re-sign him.

Rest of the roster will have be a mash of strategy using MLE's and relying on ring-chasers. Essentially how Miami's big-3 did it, but with a big-4 under contract instead.

Edit: And quite a bit younger.

They're in as good a spot as any team has ever been. No ships are guaranteed obviously, but you can't be more set up for success.

Scoots
10-01-2016, 10:17 AM
they have 3 years max because no way they can pay Klay without getting rid of durant or steph...

it is funny how people are in such denial over the impact of livingston and iggy... it has nothing to do with their stats it has everything to do with the fact that they can both guard 4 positions... you don't find those type of players for cheap in FA when the cap continues to climb...

Iggy will probably sign back this next offseason for cheap but there is no way livingston is taking a discount....

bottom line... the only reason they have been able to assemble the team they have is by getting players for well below their market value... that is over after this season

The plan is for McCaw to take over for Livingston, they are also high on Clark so they have some backup guards they like who are cheap ... for now.

The Warriors need to keep drafting well to keep it going ... unfortunately they have traded away 2 future picks.

TrueFan420
10-01-2016, 10:14 PM
If I'm not mistaken we can over the cap to bring everyone back. Curry will obviously be the first but Shuan and Andre will also be back. Those two also seem to have bought into our culture more so than most. I doubt they leave. Yes everything is up in the air till its final. However, anyone that thinks we're a flash in the pan is foolish. Nothing is a lock but we are NOT going away... get use to dealing with us!

TrueFan420
10-01-2016, 10:18 PM
The plan is for McCaw to take over for Livingston, they are also high on Clark so they have some backup guards they like who are cheap ... for now.

The Warriors need to keep drafting well to keep it going ... unfortunately they have traded away 2 future picks.

McCaw won't replace Livingston. But he will bring something different. When Livingston and Iggy leaves/retires they will be tough to replace but along as we keep the 3 of the 4 of Curry/Klay/Durant/Green we will be fine.

Scoots
10-02-2016, 02:48 PM
If I'm not mistaken we can over the cap to bring everyone back. Curry will obviously be the first but Shuan and Andre will also be back. Those two also seem to have bought into our culture more so than most. I doubt they leave. Yes everything is up in the air till its final. However, anyone that thinks we're a flash in the pan is foolish. Nothing is a lock but we are NOT going away... get use to dealing with us!

I think the Warriors only have Bird rights on Curry and Iguodala, and all the cap holds will have to be renounced to sign Durant anyhow. THEN they can sign everyone back, but it's going to be to part or all of the non-tax MLE, and vet minimums, and next year they have no draft picks so they don't get that cap exemption either.

Scoots
10-02-2016, 02:50 PM
McCaw won't replace Livingston. But he will bring something different. When Livingston and Iggy leaves/retires they will be tough to replace but along as we keep the 3 of the 4 of Curry/Klay/Durant/Green we will be fine.

McCaw isn't the same as Livingston, but he's similarly smart and long. He's got better defensive potential and a much better shot. Pre-draft I saw Livingston-with-a-shot as a comparable for him.

TrueFan420
10-02-2016, 03:18 PM
I think the Warriors only have Bird rights on Curry and Iguodala, and all the cap holds will have to be renounced to sign Durant anyhow. THEN they can sign everyone back, but it's going to be to part or all of the non-tax MLE, and vet minimums, and next year they have no draft picks so they don't get that cap exemption either.
For sure... I still think both will be back. Unless someone throws stupid money at them.

McCaw isn't the same as Livingston, but he's similarly smart and long. He's got better defensive potential and a much better shot. Pre-draft I saw Livingston-with-a-shot as a comparable for him.
He can't run an offense like Livingston. I do hope he learns a thing or two from Livingston on how to use his size to post up smaller guards. Defensively potential means little. He's certainly more athletic but i don't think his BBall IQ is close to Livingstons. I hope your right tho. I know the staff is high on him and I'll certainly be keeping an eye on him.

KnicksorBust
10-03-2016, 01:38 PM
Can't say I'm an expert on the Warriors owner but it seems like he isn't a penny-pincher ready to ruin a championship team. Still annoyed the mid 2000s Suns and 2013 OKC ruined their teams. Even Dallas letting TC go annoyed me.

Scoots
10-03-2016, 02:20 PM
For sure... I still think both will be back. Unless someone throws stupid money at them.

He can't run an offense like Livingston. I do hope he learns a thing or two from Livingston on how to use his size to post up smaller guards. Defensively potential means little. He's certainly more athletic but i don't think his BBall IQ is close to Livingstons. I hope your right tho. I know the staff is high on him and I'll certainly be keeping an eye on him.

McCaw's BBIQ is high enough to take over for Livingston/Iguodala in that role of running the bench team. It may take a year for him to gather league information and to put on some muscle, but he has a real shot to be a great fit for the Warriors bench.

HandsOnTheWheel
10-03-2016, 03:08 PM
I've said it before, it will probably work, but they didn't need a guy like KD...they only have one ball, and we don't know chemistry.

Can Curry, Durant, and Thompson work is to be seen...again it probably works because I think Curry and Durant are willing to sacrifice a bit, not sure about Thompson on that.

Some people are under the assumption that the Dubs will mesh right away.

tredigs
10-03-2016, 03:17 PM
Some people are under the assumption that the Dubs will mesh right away.
It's tough to imagine that the talent disparity won't overshadow the potential continuity adjustment period. I think they're a team that grows with the season, but KD has a game that fits incredibly well with their ingrained offense. Not to understate the potential tribulations that replacing a top 150 player with a top 3 player can have (seriously), but they're not the Knicks, the roster and system will largely be the same.

Vinylman
10-03-2016, 03:19 PM
It's over after this season? Might want to re-think those #'s.

Draymond Green is signed through 2020 (5 years 82 million)
Klay Thompson is signed through 2019 (contract extension at ~17mil a year. Roughly 7 mil a year less than Barnes)
KD can fit under the (new) cap due to the massive rise due to the TV ratings.
Curry has Bird Rights and they can go well over the cap if need be to re-sign him.

Rest of the roster will have be a mash of strategy using MLE's and relying on ring-chasers. Essentially how Miami's big-3 did it, but with a big-4 under contract instead.

Edit: And quite a bit younger.

They're in as good a spot as any team has ever been. No ships are guaranteed obviously, but you can't be more set up for success.


wow ... great analysis... except it was kind of obvious i meant the NEXT 3 years...

nice try though

Vinylman
10-03-2016, 03:23 PM
The plan is for McCaw to take over for Livingston, they are also high on Clark so they have some backup guards they like who are cheap ... for now.

The Warriors need to keep drafting well to keep it going ... unfortunately they have traded away 2 future picks.

McCaw is no Livingston ... not even close and Clark can't play multiple positions on D

I agree with the second part...

In general people way overestimate how long these things will last which... just look how fast Miami fizzled out

tredigs
10-03-2016, 04:08 PM
McCaw is no Livingston ... not even close and Clark can't play multiple positions on D

I agree with the second part...

In general people way overestimate how long these things will last which... just look how fast Miami fizzled out

They went to 4 straight Finals and won twice. It's possible they don't win again for 50 years, I think they'll take it. Also, the Warriors are set up much better than Miami was. You're nit-picking about the potential of backup PG's. Who gives a ****? Also consider that D Wade was 30 when the Heat beat OKC for their first title as the big-3. All of the Warriors big-4 are in their 20's and don't look to be slowing down for years to come.

Hawkeye15
10-03-2016, 04:12 PM
they have 3 years max because no way they can pay Klay without getting rid of durant or steph...
it is funny how people are in such denial over the impact of livingston and iggy... it has nothing to do with their stats it has everything to do with the fact that they can both guard 4 positions... you don't find those type of players for cheap in FA when the cap continues to climb...

Iggy will probably sign back this next offseason for cheap but there is no way livingston is taking a discount....

bottom line... the only reason they have been able to assemble the team they have is by getting players for well below their market value... that is over after this season

then ship Klay off for picks, and remain the favorite...

Vinylman
10-03-2016, 04:18 PM
They went to 4 straight Finals and won twice. It's possible they don't win again for 50 years, I think they'll take it. Also, the Warriors are set up much better than Miami was. You're nit-picking about the potential of backup PG's. Who gives a ****? Also consider that D Wade was 30 when the Heat beat OKC for their first title as the big-3. All of the Warriors big-4 are in their 20's and don't look to be slowing down for years to come.

just like they were going to win easily last year...

people on this site are just delusional.... If GS wins one chip in the next 2 years it would be a success...

dynasty talk at this point is a joke.

as for Thompson... he isn't staying past this contract unless durant leaves... you can book that right now...

Vinylman
10-03-2016, 04:22 PM
then ship Klay off for picks, and remain the favorite...

They won't ... as long as West is around...

my point is simple... so much CAN change and WILL change that people don't expect...

injuries, West dying, Other teams improving, personality conflicts, etc...

Weren't the Lakers the favorites the following year after kobe and shaq won their 3rd in a row ... **** happens

tredigs
10-03-2016, 04:35 PM
just like they were going to win easily last year...

people on this site are just delusional.... If GS wins one chip in the next 2 years it would be a success...

dynasty talk at this point is a joke.

as for Thompson... he isn't staying past this contract unless durant leaves... you can book that right now...
Yes, because everyone here was saying the Warriors would "win easily". Injuries change everything (as I think is noted in this thread multiple times), but as I already said, they are as set up for success as you can possibly be. "A quick fix" for what they have in place is beyond a laughable statement. So you say Klay is gone in 2020 (knowing nothing about the team or their dynamic mind you)? OK? Lol.

tredigs
10-03-2016, 04:39 PM
This thread has boiled down to saying that the 4th best player on the team might leave in 2020 and their backup PG situation is murky going forward.

I think that says enough.

mrblisterdundee
10-03-2016, 06:37 PM
How do u figure Klay and Green took a discount? They signed for the max at the time.

I was non-literally comparing their contracts to Conley's. Compared to Conley's massive payday, it looks like Green and Thompson took a discount, even though they're both arguably more valuable than Conley.

Scoots
10-03-2016, 07:35 PM
I was non-literally comparing their contracts to Conley's. Compared to Conley's massive payday, it looks like Green and Thompson took a discount, even though they're both arguably more valuable than Conley.

Also, Klay and Dray didn't sign max contracts.

Scoots
10-03-2016, 07:38 PM
Timely video came out today on McCaw from game 1 of the pre-season after 3 practices of training camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ZihKNEhJI&t=0s

I wonder if people are talking him down because he was a 2nd round pick?

I don't think he's great, but neither is Livingston. But McCaw has a LOT of things over Livingston (health, shooting, youth, shooting, contract, shooting, speed, shooting) while Livingston has only a few things over McCaw (post game, knowledge). I'm glad Livingston is sticking around another year, but I'm also glad McCaw is on the team to learn this year.

As for Clark, he can play PG and SG in spot duty, just like Barbosa did.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-04-2016, 11:55 AM
The plan is for McCaw to take over for Livingston, they are also high on Clark so they have some backup guards they like who are cheap ... for now.

The Warriors need to keep drafting well to keep it going ... unfortunately they have traded away 2 future picks.

Wish my Bucks kept McCaw.

mrblisterdundee
10-04-2016, 12:16 PM
Also, Klay and Dray didn't sign max contracts.

Bingo. And I was never using contracts for anything more than to show that the Warriors got way better deals on Green and Thompson than Memphis got on Conley, setting themselves up much better to retain Durant and Curry.

TrueFan420
10-05-2016, 08:31 PM
Timely video came out today on McCaw from game 1 of the pre-season after 3 practices of training camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ZihKNEhJI&t=0s

I wonder if people are talking him down because he was a 2nd round pick?

I don't think he's great, but neither is Livingston. But McCaw has a LOT of things over Livingston (health, shooting, youth, shooting, contract, shooting, speed, shooting) while Livingston has only a few things over McCaw (post game, knowledge). I'm glad Livingston is sticking around another year, but I'm also glad McCaw is on the team to learn this year.

As for Clark, he can play PG and SG in spot duty, just like Barbosa did.

Dude come on. Livingston hasn't had injury issues with us. Yes McCaw is a better shooter but who cares when we have elite shooters all over the court. Livingston came up huge for us in the playoffs. He gives us a mismatch and post presence that is far more important. Livingston is also a far smarter and better defender than McCaw. Yes I'm glad we got both but if we had to pick one it's Livingston easily. I truly hope McCaw learns everything he can from Livingston. And I know your high on McCaw but pump the breaks and let him develop.

Scoots
10-06-2016, 10:17 AM
Dude come on. Livingston hasn't had injury issues with us. Yes McCaw is a better shooter but who cares when we have elite shooters all over the court. Livingston came up huge for us in the playoffs. He gives us a mismatch and post presence that is far more important. Livingston is also a far smarter and better defender than McCaw. Yes I'm glad we got both but if we had to pick one it's Livingston easily. I truly hope McCaw learns everything he can from Livingston. And I know your high on McCaw but pump the breaks and let him develop.

Livingston's injury past is why he can't play more minutes. It is a current factor. You can never have too much good shooting. KD is a better post player than Livingston and West and Pachulia are also post presences the Warriors didn't have last year so that need is reduced. I don't know that Livingston is smarter at all let alone far smarter ... he's more experienced yes. McCaw is a good defender and his better speed means he can defend quicker guard that Livingston struggles with. The point was that McCaw is a good replacement for Livingston after this year and that I'm fine with that, not that I think McCaw is better than Livingston right now. With experience I think McCaw is going to be a good player for the Warriors and a good fit to fill Livingston's minutes. No need to pump the brakes on a cautious approval of a player.