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View Full Version : Chris Bosh's New Setback



Wade n Fade
09-23-2016, 01:04 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article103660572.html

Chris Bosh might have another setback with his journey trying to play in the NBA again. This has to be one of the most difficult player situations in recent sports memory.

lavilevi23
09-23-2016, 01:31 PM
Bosh definitely needs to retire now. Rebuilding season ahead. We won't make the playoffs by the looks of it, but should be serious players in free agency next year.
Best case scenario for the HEAT for the long run. New era awaits. Im excited!!

Slug3
09-23-2016, 03:05 PM
Man we lost Zo for a few good years because of his Kidneys, now we lost Bosh when he had some good years cause of clots. Tough to read, but we enjoyed what Bosh gave us. I hope after a while he can be at peace with not being able to play. Especially since he knows he has so much more to give.

beasted86
09-30-2016, 07:40 PM
Whatever happens with Bosh, regardless, Pat Riley needs to go as far as I'm concerned. It's time.

He's handled these player departures like an amateur instead of a seasoned basketball mind who can gracefully deliver the steps necessary to vacate a player that's no longer needed/wanted without the organization taking the brunt of the PR hit every time.

Hadn't spoken to Wade all summer? Really? Hasn't spoken to Bosh at all before dropping that type of bomb he did to the media? Are you serious?

Riley is the reason Miami has built up a certain amount of cachet as a destination franchise players want to play for. But he's also quickly done a lot to undo his years of work.

I'm no longer confident he's equipped to go at this one more time and rebuild this team. He seems to have lost touch on how to manage personalities and egos in the modern era of basketball.

There are a bunch of ways he could have gone about getting the same result of Bosh not playing for the team without looking like a total scum bag.

AllBall
09-30-2016, 09:17 PM
The Celtics took a dump on Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen on the way out. They seem to be doing just fine.

All-In
09-30-2016, 09:50 PM
Whatever happens with Bosh, regardless, Pat Riley needs to go as far as I'm concerned. It's time.

He's handled these player departures like an amateur instead of a seasoned basketball mind who can gracefully deliver the steps necessary to vacate a player that's no longer needed/wanted without the organization taking the brunt of the PR hit every time.

Hadn't spoken to Wade all summer? Really? Hasn't spoken to Bosh at all before dropping that type of bomb he did to the media? Are you serious?

Riley is the reason Miami has built up a certain amount of cachet as a destination franchise players want to play for. But he's also quickly done a lot to undo his years of work.

I'm no longer confident he's equipped to go at this one more time and rebuild this team. He seems to have lost touch on how to manage personalities and egos in the modern era of basketball.

There are a bunch of ways he could have gone about getting the same result of Bosh not playing for the team without looking like a total scum bag.

The Wade dilemma was contentious on both sides and the Heat did try to reach Bosh by email and phone to inform him of his failed physical and Bosh never responded according to espn......Right now what we have is pettiness on Bosh's part, the guy just fired his longtime agent Henry Thomas over the fact he was telling Bosh to retire too, Bosh is of course a little unstable right now

So yes, Bosh is upset and is trying to make the Heat look bad, Wade was also upset, and he tired so VERY hard to make Miami look like the bad guys......So what now? You want Pat gone because there are a couple of PR hits? In case you dont understand the point of PR its "public relations" so ok, the public's perception of the Heat might take a turn for the worse for the time being, but that doesn't automatically mean this is hurting the players perception....Public perception and player perception are two totally different things

You know what stories that dont get publicized in the media but players sure do care about? How about a guy name Chris Anderson who signed here for back to back minimum deals, leaving a boat load of money on the table signing his second minimum contract, but guess what happened after his second contract was up, we signed him to a 2 year 10 million dollar deal that made absolutely no sense to the public but Pat clearly did right by Birdman...how about a guy leaving money on the table during a buyout with Beno Udrih? He easily could've said no and play out the contract, but he left the money and now hes back here being taken care of by Pat

OK sure, our public perception may have taken a hit but thats totally different then the players perception......In the players eyes, Wade was acting like a diva and Bosh is just fighting the inevitable, they both want us to look bad in front of the public's eye but the players dont get caught up in the "He said, she said" bull......Bottom line is Pat is a proven champion, with a proven track record in multiple era's......I dont think this hurts the Heat's cachet as much as you think

Im sorry, but saying Pat should be let go over "PR" hits is down right nuts

hotdalton18
09-30-2016, 11:42 PM
Idk if Pat should be let go

But his PR skill is bum juice

Can he rebuild us ? He can't draft worth a lick

He's known as a great GM for his ability to do damage in free agency

Now with Wade AND bosh AND Bron killing him in the media , is he even gonna be able to do that?

All-In
10-01-2016, 12:26 AM
Idk if Pat should be let go

But his PR skill is bum juice

Can he rebuild us ? He can't draft worth a lick

He's known as a great GM for his ability to do damage in free agency

Now with Wade AND bosh AND Bron killing him in the media , is he even gonna be able to do that?

Pat can't draft worth a lick? Can he rebuild us?......ok......so what do you call TJ, JRich, Winslow, Whiteside?.....I call that great scouting and player development, thats our future, its not Pat Riley, its guys like Dan Craig, Keith Askins, Chris Quinn and Chad Kammerer, guys who scout and have a role in player development....that to me is the future of the Miami Heat, its not Pat Riley

AllBall
10-01-2016, 07:11 AM
Pat can't draft worth a lick? Can he rebuild us?......ok......so what do you call TJ, JRich, Winslow, Whiteside?.....I call that great scouting and player development, thats our future, its not Pat Riley, its guys like Dan Craig, Keith Askins, Chris Quinn and Chad Kammerer, guys who scout and have a role in player development....that to me is the future of the Miami Heat, its not Pat Riley

I'm with you on this.

beasted86
10-02-2016, 05:27 AM
The Celtics took a dump on Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen on the way out. They seem to be doing just fine.

Revisionist history.

Celtics did shop Ray Allen on the trade market for a number of years, but ultimately this is a business and it happens. That's not taking a dump on a player.
They gave him an offer that was much more than the HEAT were offering and he declined. Simple business on both ends.

They gave a way past prime Garnett and Piece big dollar extensions that were above their impact on the court and then traded them to a playoff team without moving them clear across the country. I don't know where you're going with this comparison.

If you can demonstrate where any of those players had it reported that they felt disrespected by their teams the way that Miami break up has gone, I'd like to see it.

From what I remember Ray Allen was the only guy who seemed to leave on anything close to bad terms, and that was more portrayed as player relationship issues in the media (never got along with Rondo and Piece/KG couldn't get over him taking less to join the "enemy"). This wasn't reported as the team handling the departures poorly.

beasted86
10-02-2016, 05:34 AM
The Wade dilemma was contentious on both sides and the Heat did try to reach Bosh by email and phone to inform him of his failed physical and Bosh never responded according to espn......Right now what we have is pettiness on Bosh's part, the guy just fired his longtime agent Henry Thomas over the fact he was telling Bosh to retire too, Bosh is of course a little unstable right now

So yes, Bosh is upset and is trying to make the Heat look bad, Wade was also upset, and he tired so VERY hard to make Miami look like the bad guys......So what now? You want Pat gone because there are a couple of PR hits? In case you dont understand the point of PR its "public relations" so ok, the public's perception of the Heat might take a turn for the worse for the time being, but that doesn't automatically mean this is hurting the players perception....Public perception and player perception are two totally different things

You know what stories that dont get publicized in the media but players sure do care about? How about a guy name Chris Anderson who signed here for back to back minimum deals, leaving a boat load of money on the table signing his second minimum contract, but guess what happened after his second contract was up, we signed him to a 2 year 10 million dollar deal that made absolutely no sense to the public but Pat clearly did right by Birdman...how about a guy leaving money on the table during a buyout with Beno Udrih? He easily could've said no and play out the contract, but he left the money and now hes back here being taken care of by Pat

OK sure, our public perception may have taken a hit but thats totally different then the players perception......In the players eyes, Wade was acting like a diva and Bosh is just fighting the inevitable, they both want us to look bad in front of the public's eye but the players dont get caught up in the "He said, she said" bull......Bottom line is Pat is a proven champion, with a proven track record in multiple era's......I dont think this hurts the Heat's cachet as much as you think

Im sorry, but saying Pat should be let go over "PR" hits is down right nuts
Pat can longer communicate to the players in this league in a way that they respond. It's the reason he's not coaching anymore and ultimately the reason he needs to fade into the background and/or retire.

If you don't see it the same way, that's fine, but for me it's clear as day based on him failing to be able to have basic communication with the big 3.

I feel the best thing for this franchise moving forward is for Riley to become the silent President and either Nick Arison or someone more vocal, and with more salesmanship than Ellisburg to become the new GM. Riley should not be the vocal front holding press conferences and communicating with players.

SteBO
10-02-2016, 09:33 AM
Pat can longer communicate to the players in this league in a way that they respond. It's the reason he's not coaching anymore and ultimately the reason he needs to fade into the background and/or retire.

If you don't see it the same way, that's fine, but for me it's clear as day based on him failing to be able to have basic communication with the big 3.

I feel the best thing for this franchise moving forward is for Riley to become the silent President and either Nick Arison or someone more vocal, and with more salesmanship than Ellisburg to become the new GM. Riley should not be the vocal front holding press conferences and communicating with players.
It's taken me a while to come to this conclusion, but I'm inclined to agree 100% here. Pat is an old school guy, and that's had a lot to do with how successful he's been, but the league has become more of a players league than its ever been before. Riley doesn't and will never have the same kind of control. Guys like LBJ and Wade aren't gonna be impressed anymore.....

Bosh is another matter entirely though. He's just trying to make the franchise look bad by lying to the media and conveniently ignoring the fact that he hasn't even responded to Heat attempts at contacting him or his people. The franchise I feel is simply lashing out in their own way.

AllBall
10-02-2016, 04:10 PM
The 5 stages of greif:

Denial and isolation
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Bosh is cycling between Denial and Anger.

beasted86
10-02-2016, 04:39 PM
Idk if Pat should be let go

But his PR skill is bum juice

Can he rebuild us ? He can't draft worth a lick

He's known as a great GM for his ability to do damage in free agency

Now with Wade AND bosh AND Bron killing him in the media , is he even gonna be able to do that?

I sure don't think Riley, nor Spo are popular among younger star players in this league as far as attracting them right now to a program that those star players want to be a part of. They are looked at as old school and hard-nose guys who like things their way. They are not looked at as fun or exciting at all.

Whiteside and Goran are good players but simply don't have good relationships or "friends" among the premier players in the league who will want to team up with them to play.

Miami will have to build through the draft, not free agency, and you're right when you say Riley has not had a great track record in that area. For me, we just need a new face of the franchise and Riley needs to fade to the depths of the front office. They need someone to instill a fresh, exciting, player friendly atmosphere to the franchise. Somebody who also takes a little more risk on those wilder personalities and is able to get those guys to buy into the system.

AllBall
10-02-2016, 10:26 PM
Revisionist history.

Celtics did shop Ray Allen on the trade market for a number of years, but ultimately this is a business and it happens. That's not taking a dump on a player.
They gave him an offer that was much more than the HEAT were offering and he declined. Simple business on both ends.

They gave a way past prime Garnett and Piece big dollar extensions that were above their impact on the court and then traded them to a playoff team without moving them clear across the country. I don't know where you're going with this comparison.

If you can demonstrate where any of those players had it reported that they felt disrespected by their teams the way that Miami break up has gone, I'd like to see it.

From what I remember Ray Allen was the only guy who seemed to leave on anything close to bad terms, and that was more portrayed as player relationship issues in the media (never got along with Rondo and Piece/KG couldn't get over him taking less to join the "enemy"). This wasn't reported as the team handling the departures poorly.

I'm not going to scour the internet looking for articles for you. I remember how it went down, you go look it up. The point being made is that I know of no team that had a falling out with star players that wasn't able to recover from that.

Forgive me if I don't see the need to join you on the panic and hysteria train. Season hasn't even started. Looking forward to Pre-Season in 2 days.


I sure don't think Riley, nor Spo are popular among younger star players in this league as far as attracting them right now to a program that those star players want to be a part of. They are looked at as old school and hard-nose guys who like things their way. They are not looked at as fun or exciting at all.

The hell guy. Relax. Where are you getting all this from? What teams are you comparing the Heat coaching staff to? What star players would they even target in free agency. There's nothing left for the next 4 years IMO. Need to focus on developing, scouting and trade here and there.

beasted86
10-03-2016, 06:17 AM
I'm not going to scour the internet looking for articles for you. I remember how it went down, you go look it up. The point being made is that I know of no team that had a falling out with star players that wasn't able to recover from that.

Forgive me if I don't see the need to join you on the panic and hysteria train. Season hasn't even started. Looking forward to Pre-Season in 2 days.



The hell guy. Relax. Where are you getting all this from? What teams are you comparing the Heat coaching staff to? What star players would they even target in free agency. There's nothing left for the next 4 years IMO. Need to focus on developing, scouting and trade here and there.

The coaches around the league that guys want to play for are Kerr, Pop, Budenholzer, Clifford, Stevens, Stotts, and Vogel. Out of that group, Pop is the only true hard *** from the mold of Riley discipline.

The next 4 years are rebuilding, yes, but part of that rebuild still very much has to do with what type of relationship players have with their coach and if they can buy into the vision of the front office and trust them as well.

Is that guy coming off the rookie deal (see Richardson + Winslow in the near future for example) going to run out on 12:01 to sign an offer sheet? or will he trust that he can wait a few days while his team makes maneuvers, knowing that Riley will for sure give him what he's worth?

Is that rookie going into the draft going to push his way to Miami because he believes they are a rookie friendly team? Or is he going to refuse a pre draft work out because he's afraid to get "Beasleyed" and will have to earn his minutes over a mediocre vet?

If we're keeping Spo, I'm fine with that. Despite him being a disciplinarian type, he seems to have a decent development program. But we can't have two hard nose guys in both him and Riley who don't take risks on risky personalities and aren't player friendly enough to sell guys on being a part of this team. Riley seems to have more issues with communication recently than Spo, so I feel it's him who should fall back and be less vocal so our GM or CEO can be the "salesman" of the team going forward.

AllBall
10-03-2016, 10:07 AM
The coaches around the league that guys want to play for are Kerr, Pop, Budenholzer, Clifford, Stevens, Stotts, and Vogel. Out of that group, Pop is the only true hard *** from the mold of Riley discipline.

So the other playoff teams, those players don't' want to play for their coaches?


The next 4 years are rebuilding, yes, but part of that rebuild still very much has to do with what type of relationship players have with their coach and if they can buy into the vision of the front office and trust them as well.

Is that guy coming off the rookie deal (see Richardson + Winslow in the near future for example) going to run out on 12:01 to sign an offer sheet? or will he trust that he can wait a few days while his team makes maneuvers, knowing that Riley will for sure give him what he's worth?

Is that rookie going into the draft going to push his way to Miami because he believes they are a rookie friendly team? Or is he going to refuse a pre draft work out because he's afraid to get "Beasleyed" and will have to earn his minutes over a mediocre vet?

None of those doomsday scenarios are happening to the team like it is for others in the league. Winslow comments seemed indicate he felt slighted by Wade for leaving, he's on record saying it didn't make sense to him because of how he viewed the team and organization.


If we're keeping Spo, I'm fine with that. Despite him being a disciplinarian type, he seems to have a decent development program. But we can't have two hard nose guys in both him and Riley who don't take risks on risky personalities and aren't player friendly enough to sell guys on being a part of this team. Riley seems to have more issues with communication recently than Spo, so I feel it's him who should fall back and be less vocal so our GM or CEO can be the "salesman" of the team going forward.

Riley's involvement with players is only during their free agency, if that. Let's not forget Micky was the one working the situation with Wade and Bosh. Riley isn't even close to Larry Bird's level of intrusion of the coaching staff and players.

Slug3
10-03-2016, 03:04 PM
Bosh is being a little dramatic, I mean you got your 3rd set of clots and failed a team AND league physical. At this point it just looks like you cannot play man. Its hard for anyone to be able to accept that, but he really needs to come to peace with that.

This has been a bad offseason in general for the Heat FO. I am not blaming anyone or anything, but it all just came to a head this offseason with losing 2 key guys we all enjoyed for so long.

naps
10-10-2016, 04:45 PM
Beasted86 is 100% accurate on the Boston breakup. They rode it at least 2 years too long and it was bound to happen. And it happaned as amicably as possible. Only Ray Allen situation was different because of the reasons Beasted86 mentioned. Both Garnett (had to waive NTC) and Pierce left Boston amicably and Boston was nice enough to send them to form another apparent superteam, at the least on paper (and got an awesome haul in return from Nets by fooling the russian dude). Miami situation is 180 degree different than Boston's. Our big three demise was wayyy premature and now we have 3 superstars coming after us every chance they get, one of them just happened to be the most influential figure and the face of this sport. I dont agree with letting Riley go but we are in some deep **** right now as an organization. Dont be in denial.

AllBall
10-11-2016, 11:04 AM
Beasted86 is 100% accurate on the Boston breakup. They rode it at least 2 years too long and it was bound to happen. And it happaned as amicably as possible. Only Ray Allen situation was different because of the reasons Beasted86 mentioned. Both Garnett (had to waive NTC) and Pierce left Boston amicably and Boston was nice enough to send them to form another apparent superteam, at the least on paper (and got an awesome haul in return from Nets by fooling the russian dude). Miami situation is 180 degree different than Boston's. Our big three demise was wayyy premature and now we have 3 superstars coming after us every chance they get, one of them just happened to be the most influential figure and the face of this sport. I dont agree with letting Riley go but we are in some deep **** right now as an organization. Dont be in denial.

So, again, please, tell me a team that had a falling out with star players that wasn't able to recover from that?

We're in a bad position, how? From attracting star free agents? Who exactly are we even supposed to go after. The Top 20 are tied up for the next 4 years. Or is it something else you're getting at?

SteBO
10-11-2016, 12:19 PM
^Its about perception. Understand we're in a league that's become more and more player dominant in terms of influence, and Riley is of an ilk that's was commonplace decades ago. Don't think for one second that players aren't gonna be a bit skeptical of this franchises' motives.....even with the glaring opportunities for success here.

Problem is, that time isn't now and LBJ/Bosh have taken every opportunity to unfairly and without substance slander this franchise. These guys talk.

AllBall
10-11-2016, 01:07 PM
^Its about perception. Understand we're in a league that's become more and more player dominant in terms of influence, and Riley is of an ilk that's was commonplace decades ago. Don't think for one second that players aren't gonna be a bit skeptical of this franchises' motives.....even with the glaring opportunities for success here.

Problem is, that time isn't now and LBJ/Bosh have taken every opportunity to unfairly and without substance slander this franchise. These guys talk.

So you answer the part of what the problem is: perception and players talking bad about the franchise.

But again, no one is answering the question that matters. What franchise hasn't recovered from that?

beasted86
10-11-2016, 07:32 PM
So you answer the part of what the problem is: perception and players talking bad about the franchise.

But again, no one is answering the question that matters. What franchise hasn't recovered from that?

I don't understand this question?

Who here has said Miami will never recover (ever)?


The whole point is to minimize the recoil and get us on the path to rebuilding the image as quickly as possible and make it a prime destination as quickly as possible again.

The discussion is about whether Arison/Riley/Spo over the past several summers has renewed/built up your confidence in their player relations?

AllBall
10-12-2016, 06:32 AM
I don't understand this question?

Who here has said Miami will never recover (ever)?

The level of panic here seems to indicate so. The reality is that it takes about the same time as a team any other team that is rebuilding or transitioning to their next group. ~ 4 years

SteBO
10-12-2016, 08:45 AM
The level of panic here seems to indicate so. The reality is that it takes about the same time as a team any other team that is rebuilding or transitioning to their next group. ~ 4 years
It's not panic when you have 3 off seasons worth of evidence that what beasted and naps pointed out has truth to it. I've never seen star players take the opportunity to aim subtle shots in an organizations direction that you spent 4+ years with.

AllBall
10-12-2016, 10:23 AM
It's not panic when you have 3 off seasons worth of evidence that what beasted and naps pointed out has truth to it. I've never seen star players take the opportunity to aim subtle shots in an organizations direction that you spent 4+ years with.

Shaq did the same thing on his way out, worse actually, and now he's all buddy buddy with the organization, recommending players to come here on live on the TNT broadcast and soon to be having his Jersey retired. Money and time cure all.

The alternative of having your star players retire with a golden parachute a la Kobe or failing to let go a la Dirk is not a recipe for championship contention, it's just appeases the emotions of the fanbase.

naps
10-12-2016, 04:09 PM
I dont understand what's there not to understand about what had transpired through past 3 offseasons. This franchise has taken a giant step back in terms of players perception. Sure we will recover from it but the question is how long will it take and how tedious the process will be under the current regime. It's one thing LeBron and Bosh *****ing about us around the league and it's totally different when you add Wade to the list. What happened was unfortunate but it is what it is. I didnt think Miami did anything wrong with LeBron. I firmly believed Riley did the right thing with him by not giving him all the keys of this franchise like the cavs do. Bosh situation is also tricky but Wade's situation coupled with these two makes it all deep. May be we did the right thing by not holding onto Wade just to be middle of the pack but players will always see their side and will always get influenced by their pioneer superstars. I dont think some people understand how powerful LeBron James is. For example Messi/Ronaldo are bigger global icons than him but even they dont have nearly the influence he has on their respective peers around the world. NBA is literally run by LeBron on many facets. And Wade's voice is much much bigger than we think it is when it's echoing with LeBron.

king james
10-12-2016, 10:46 PM
I think people need to realize that Lebrun planted seeds with these players when he was with the heat. If you notice that the way that wade and bosh is acting is similar to the diva like attitude that lebron has. Lebron was in the ear of both Wade and Bosh telling them that it's more about the players than it's about the organization. That's why Wade was acting so selfish, cuz him leaving was a power move to try and make the organization look bad. Now Bosh is doing the same thing. They are trying to save your life and your mad at them for not taking a chance on u dying out there on the court. Not to mention that this is the 3rd time this has happened. Not 1, not 2, but 3x's. It's the attitude of it's all about me that Lebron had left here.

To those who are saying that Riles needs to go. IMHO you all have lost your mind. Now I'm not going to say that he doesn't need to change something's in the relating to the new generation of players, cuz he does to a point. I'm not going to trade what he brings to the table for anyone else in the NBA.

To me it see

naps
10-13-2016, 01:12 AM
I second that^^ totally. Bosh's latest videos were released from LeBron's media website uninterrupted.com...he was seen on meetings about these with Maverick Carter (LeBron's greatest confidante). I remember 2 years ago Bosh sounded LeBron's biggest enemy right after he left us. No doubt LeBron played behind the scenes in both Wade and Bosh situations. He is taking revenge on Riley by doing everything he can do to fcuk us over.
And I also dont wanna let Riley go already. Even after everything happened last 2 years, I still dont think I am ready for a Heat life without Riley. I still believe in him and he earned that from us fans over his 20 years of contribution here. I dont know how he will but man if he can gather another championship roster, it will be his greatest achievement and he will for sure go down as the finest basketball team builder of all time, better than Red Auerbach, better than Jerry West.

AllBall
10-13-2016, 10:38 AM
What should be the real focus has been lost.

If it gets to the point where Bosh plays I do think his life is in great danger.

When tragedy strikes the narrative and perception will be completely different.

It's sad it will have to come to that, but I will be patient because I know in the end the organization will come out on the correct end of this thing.

beasted86
10-13-2016, 02:49 PM
The biggest flaw in how the organization handled this is they never stood behind Bosh. I see that plain add day even as an outside spectator.

Literally as soon as the news broke of a recurring blood clot, nearly immediately there was talk of retirement and Riley coming with this 'wait and see' B.S.

All this could have possibly been avoided if the team took a stand behind Bosh from the beginning. Come out and say we're going to do everything possible to get him back in the court ASAP. Come out and say (after they were allowed to mention the word blood clots) that we would like to treat this condition and clear him to play just add we did last year so he can be ready for 2016/17. They just simply never did that and it appears at least from a popular outside perception that the team wanted this to happen. They wanted Bosh to never come back.

They could have let the situation play itself out and ended with the same result, but instead it will result in looking like they persuaded the situation down this path.

king james
10-15-2016, 11:09 PM
Ok ur right that they could have done something's better than they did. But let's not act like the big 3 handled everything on their end the right way either. If anything, it's a 50/50 screw up on both sides. But the organization is going to always look like the bad guys. Especially if Lebron has anything to do with it. It was reported the other day that the cavs was trying to get wade, but he wanted too much. Like I said Lebron was in his ear and he's also in Bosh's ear as well.