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IKnowHoops
09-15-2016, 04:01 PM
Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)


List the order in which they finish in a 2 on 2 tournament with double elimination.

Edit: Changed the teams around to create more parody, and added two teams. Just rank them from 1 to 10.

FlashBolt
09-15-2016, 04:02 PM
Aren't you missing a team? I think Dream+Jordan wins this.

Vee-Rex
09-15-2016, 04:45 PM
Round 1

Team 1 (Kobe/Shaq) defeats Team 8 (Magic/Moses)

Team 7 (Durant/Dirk) defeats Team 2 (Wade/Duncan)

Team 3 (Tracy/Kareem) defeats Team 6 (KG/Wilt)

Team 5 (Jordan/Dream) defeats Team 4 (Bron/Admiral) - tough and probably could go the other way

Round 2

Team 5 (Jordan/Dream) defeats Team 1 (Kobe/Shaq) ------- tough one, but I think Jordan is just too efficient

Team 3 (McGrady/Kareem) defeats Team 3 (Durant/Dirk) ----- yes, I think a prime McGrady/Kareem matches up well, but this could go the other way too.

Round 3

Team 5 (Jordan/Dream) defeats Team 3 (McGrady/Kareem)

Edit: Annnnd crap. I missed the double elimination part. Too much work... sorry.

Kaner
09-15-2016, 09:37 PM
Jordan and Hakeem all day. I think Jordan and Durant should switch and it'd even out matchups more as Durant-Dirk is to me the weakest team. I'd still pick team Dream's team to win if he was partnered with Durant

Team 1 ( Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses) Edit
1 beats 8
2 beats 7
3 beats 6
5 beats 4

4 beats 8
6 beats 7


5 beats 1
3 beats 2

4 beats 2
6 beats 1

6 beats 4

5 beats 3
6 beats 3 for rd1 revenge
5 beats 6

More-Than-Most
09-15-2016, 09:58 PM
In b4 Jordan/Hakeem---------------->everything.

Edit- Nvm its already to late.

Serious question... How would Jordan Stop Lebron 1 on 1 and how would Hakeem Stop DRob? On the other end DRob has a better chance of stopping Hakeem and Lebron would D the **** out of Jordan.

FlashBolt
09-15-2016, 10:29 PM
In b4 Jordan/Hakeem---------------->everything.

Edit- Nvm its already to late.

Serious question... How would Jordan Stop Lebron 1 on 1 and how would Hakeem Stop DRob? On the other end DRob has a better chance of stopping Hakeem and Lebron would D the **** out of Jordan.

Truth is, no one could stop Jordan or LeBron. I really don't care about those two because it would be even IMO. Kawhi has managed to become a hassle for LeBron and Jordan shouldn't be any different. On the other hand, I really don't see how you can assume LeBron can "D" up Jordan as if it's science. What does that even mean? Four of the greatest defenders are involved in this 2-on-2. They are all getting D'd up. But really, I don't trust D.Rob. Never have, never will. If you replaced D.Rob with Duncan, I'd probably side with LeBron and Duncan. On a side note, what if we switch the teams around? LeBron+Hakeem vs Jordan+D.Rob? I'd take LeBron+Hakeem, please.

Giannis94
09-15-2016, 11:08 PM
IF you really knew hopps then Giannis would be on the list. No giannis? WTF. I'll take him and Thanasis any and errry day

mrblisterdundee
09-16-2016, 01:14 AM
Round 1
Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq) defeats Team 8 (Magic & Moses)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan) defeats Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt) defeats Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream) defeats Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)

Round 2
Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq) defeats Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream) defeats Team 6 (KG & Wilt)

Finals
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream) defeats Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq)

valade16
09-16-2016, 01:49 AM
In b4 Jordan/Hakeem---------------->everything.

Edit- Nvm its already to late.

Serious question... How would Jordan Stop Lebron 1 on 1 and how would Hakeem Stop DRob? On the other end DRob has a better chance of stopping Hakeem and Lebron would D the **** out of Jordan.

I'm not sure if you're serious. D-Rob sure seemed to have his hands full stopping Hakeem in the 94 Finals.

IKnowHoops
09-16-2016, 02:08 AM
I'm not sure if you're serious. D-Rob sure seemed to have his hands full stopping Hakeem in the 94 Finals.

D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8

I can find just as many games where Drob bent Hakeem over, but I'll start with this one.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=robinda01

Hakeem was a 44% shooter against Drob. Thats Allen Iverson Efficiency. Meanwhile Drob is a 49% shooter against Hakeem. One guy is Lebron efficient, the other is AI efficient. Meanwhile pts/reb/blks are virtually the same. Drob has been better against Hakeem, and better against the field for the vast majority of their careers. Dream has a six game sample size in the playoffs, Drob has there rest of there careers. Drob absolutely has an argument over Dream based on ALL the evidence.

valade16
09-16-2016, 02:22 AM
D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8

I can find just as many games where Drob bent Hakeem over, but I'll start with this one.

You can't find "just as many" because Hakeem abused D-Rob more:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id1_select=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id1=olajuha01&hint=David+Robinson&player_id2_select=David+Robinson&player_id2=robinda01

40 pts games vs each other:
Hakeem: 6
D-Rob: 1

30 pts game vs each other:
Hakeem: 11
D-Rob: 5

25 pts games vs each other:
Hakeem: 22
D-Rob: 11

Their regular season numbers are pretty even but of course Hakeem murdered D-Rob in the 94 WCF. Even if we want to simply add those games to their overall total Hakeem has the edge.

IKnowHoops
09-16-2016, 02:33 AM
You can't find "just as many" because Hakeem abused D-Rob more:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&hint=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id1_select=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id1=olajuha01&hint=David+Robinson&player_id2_select=David+Robinson&player_id2=robinda01

40 pts games vs each other:
Hakeem: 6
D-Rob: 1

30 pts game vs each other:
Hakeem: 11
D-Rob: 5

25 pts games vs each other:
Hakeem: 22
D-Rob: 11

Their regular season numbers are pretty even but of course Hakeem murdered D-Rob in the 94 WCF. Even if we want to simply add those games to their overall total Hakeem has the edge.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=robinda01

Hakeem was a 44% shooter against Drob. Thats Allen Iverson Efficiency. Meanwhile Drob is a 49% shooter against Hakeem. One guy is Lebron efficient, the other is AI efficient. Meanwhile pts/reb/blks are virtually the same. Drob has been better against Hakeem, and better against the field for the vast majority of their careers. Dream has a six game sample size in the playoffs, Drob has there rest of there careers. Drob absolutely has an argument over Dream based on ALL the evidence.

IKnowHoops
09-16-2016, 02:53 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=robinda01

Hakeem was a 44% shooter against Drob. Thats Allen Iverson Efficiency. Meanwhile Drob is a 49% shooter against Hakeem. One guy is Lebron efficient, the other is AI efficient. Meanwhile pts/reb/blks are virtually the same. Drob has been better against Hakeem, and better against the field for the vast majority of their careers. Dream has a six game sample size in the playoffs, Drob has there rest of there careers. Drob absolutely has an argument over Dream based on ALL the evidence.

Also I want to repeat, the difference in that playoff series was more to do with coaching than anything. Houston as a team went to stop David, while David tried by himself to stop Hakeem. Rudy was a very good coach. David had a horrible coach.

Look at a few stats to prove what I am saying. Its not full proof, but it is telling. You look at how many fouls they both averaged against each other in the playoffs. Both right around 4.5. Now you look at how many times each player went to the free throw line. The Admiral went 11.8 times to Dreams 5.2. They are both fouling at the same rate, but David is going to the line more than double. Its because there are other Houston players around David a lot more, help defending and fouling him, while that same presence is not around Hakeem.

A team stopped David, while one man tried and failed to stop Hakeem. During the regular season, there is not much of a gameplan so David and Hakeem are playing each other straight up for the majority and that is why David is so much more efficient than Hakeem. But when the playoffs came, Rudy new better. Unfortunately for David, Pop wasn't coaching.

Another thing about the Spurs is that they did not work the ball into David enough. they did not force feed him the ball. STUPIDITY. When he did get force fed, he dropped 71 on super efficiency. I am biased, but I am real. Ive never said David was better than Shaq, and seeing how the first 4-5 years of Shaq's career, David outplayed him, I could try and make that argument, but I haven't and wouldn't, because overall, I feel the effect Shaq had on a game was greater than what David did. Hakeem on the other hand, has legitamately been outplayed by David outside of a six game series in which I have detailed my belief on how it all transpired, based on what I saw up to that point, and what I actually saw in the series.

valade16
09-16-2016, 05:30 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=robinda01

Hakeem was a 44% shooter against Drob. Thats Allen Iverson Efficiency. Meanwhile Drob is a 49% shooter against Hakeem. One guy is Lebron efficient, the other is AI efficient. Meanwhile pts/reb/blks are virtually the same. Drob has been better against Hakeem, and better against the field for the vast majority of their careers. Dream has a six game sample size in the playoffs, Drob has there rest of there careers. Drob absolutely has an argument over Dream based on ALL the evidence.

First, that doesn't include the playoff series. If we want to add that in the numbers are:

22.7 PPG on 46.1% shooting

vs.

20.1 PPG on 48.2% shooting

So now the efficiency gap closes when you add in all their games to 2%, but Hakeem scores 2.6 PPG more. Not to mention Hakeem was a better FT shooter (76.8% reg. season and 80.6% playoffs vs. 71.7% reg. season and 77.5% playoffs) and the efficiency gap all but disapears.

Hakeem also out rebounded, out assisted, and out blocked D-Rob that series meaning all those stats would increase for Hakeem and he'd have a slightly larger lead in all those areas.

But digging even further you notice that many of Hakeem's worst games against D-Rob came in 1999 or 2000, when Hakeem was well past his prime.

Here is the scoring averages after 1998 for both players and before 1998 for both players:

After 98:

Hakeem: 13.8 PPG on 40.7% FG
D-Rob: 12.7 PPG on 54.6% FG

Before 98:

Hakeem: 26.1 PPG on 47.0% FG
D-Rob: 22.0 PPG on 47.3% FG

So when we see their primes we notice the efficiency gap for D-Rob completely disapears. In fact, because Hakeem was a better FT Shooter it's probable that Hakeem actually had better efficiency in his prime against D-Rob than D-Rob did against Hakeem.

Either way, Hakeem outscores D-Rob by 4 PPG on the same efficiency. So yes, D-Rob's numbers look close to Hakeem's because D-Rob, playing with Tim Duncan, was able to outplay a 37/38 year old well past his prime Hakeem.

But in their primes, it's clear: Hakeem thoroughly beat D-Rob.

IKnowHoops
09-18-2016, 11:14 AM
First, that doesn't include the playoff series. If we want to add that in the numbers are:

22.7 PPG on 46.1% shooting

vs.

20.1 PPG on 48.2% shooting

So now the efficiency gap closes when you add in all their games to 2%, but Hakeem scores 2.6 PPG more. Not to mention Hakeem was a better FT shooter (76.8% reg. season and 80.6% playoffs vs. 71.7% reg. season and 77.5% playoffs) and the efficiency gap all but disapears.

Hakeem also out rebounded, out assisted, and out blocked D-Rob that series meaning all those stats would increase for Hakeem and he'd have a slightly larger lead in all those areas.

But digging even further you notice that many of Hakeem's worst games against D-Rob came in 1999 or 2000, when Hakeem was well past his prime.

Here is the scoring averages after 1998 for both players and before 1998 for both players:

After 98:

Hakeem: 13.8 PPG on 40.7% FG
D-Rob: 12.7 PPG on 54.6% FG

Before 98:

Hakeem: 26.1 PPG on 47.0% FG
D-Rob: 22.0 PPG on 47.3% FG

So when we see their primes we notice the efficiency gap for D-Rob completely disapears. In fact, because Hakeem was a better FT Shooter it's probable that Hakeem actually had better efficiency in his prime against D-Rob than D-Rob did against Hakeem.

Either way, Hakeem outscores D-Rob by 4 PPG on the same efficiency. So yes, D-Rob's numbers look close to Hakeem's because D-Rob, playing with Tim Duncan, was able to outplay a 37/38 year old well past his prime Hakeem.

But in their primes, it's clear: Hakeem thoroughly beat D-Rob.

Good argument. First good argument I've seen. Is it possible to create a link to a chart with these years in mind on basketball reference?

FlashBolt
09-19-2016, 01:13 AM
Good argument. First good argument I've seen. Is it possible to create a link to a chart with these years in mind on basketball reference?

I'm surprised you needed an argument. Everyone knew Hakeem > D.Rob. Stats doesn't have to justify any of that. It's solidified already and has been for quite some time. D.Rob is closer to Patrick Ewing than he is to Hakeem.

KnicksorBust
09-19-2016, 03:10 PM
Team 1 ( Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses) Edit


List the order in which they finish in a 2 on 2 tournament with double elimination.

Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)

Why did you put Jordan with Dream?

FlashBolt
09-19-2016, 06:02 PM
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)

Why did you put Jordan with Dream?

Cause Jordan said he would choose Dream as his teammate when asked about it.

KnicksorBust
09-20-2016, 07:59 AM
Cause Jordan said he would choose Dream as his teammate when asked about it.

But by creating a team that was clearly superior to the rest it limited debate.

FlashBolt
09-20-2016, 01:52 PM
But by creating a team that was clearly superior to the rest it limited debate.

I don't know about clearly. We're talking about other all-time greats as well so it's not as if we're talking about Gilbert Arenas+Dwight Howard here.

KnicksorBust
09-20-2016, 02:31 PM
I don't know about clearly. We're talking about other all-time greats as well so it's not as if we're talking about Gilbert Arenas+Dwight Howard here.

Make a legitimate argument that any of those teams is better than Jordan/Dream.

FlashBolt
09-21-2016, 03:46 AM
Make a legitimate argument that any of those teams is better than Jordan/Dream.

That's not what you said, though. I'm not saying any of those teams listed are better but to say there isn't a debate is like saying Jordan+Hakeem are by far the better duo. That's simply not true. I'd take them but it's not out of this world if someone chose LeBron+DRob or Kobe+Shaq.


Team 1 ( Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses)

Team 1: Kobe at his peak IMO was 2002-03 and that Kobe would have held his own against Jordan. I'd take that Shaq over Hakeem, too. Hakeem would have issues guarding a much stronger player in Shaq.
Team 2: I don't think team 2 has a chance.
Team 3: Kareem outplayed Hakeem even during his old age days. Tracy is iffy here but if we're talking about Tracy's best season (one of the best season's by an NBA player), then it's not out of the ordinary to say this team would have won a few games.
Team 4: LeBron would just outmuscle Jordan but Jordan had huge hands so I'd call it a wash. Hakeem > D.Rob so I'd take Jordan+Hakeem but again, it's not otherworldly to think LeBron+D.Rob can beat them. Both of those guys put up some of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Team 6: KG and Wilt. Actually, this team is underrated. People forget KG was capable of guarding guards because he was so tall and long/quick on his feet. Jordan would have zero answer stopping KG. As I said before, Hakeem had issues guarding bigger/stronger players. Wilt would have abused Hakeem.
Team 7: No chance.
Team 8: No chance.

I'd take Team 5 but that's because I think the pairing of Jordan+Hakeem makes perfect sense. Both had range, could defend, amazing footwork, great skillset. They are just complete players at every level of the game.

KnicksorBust
09-22-2016, 11:48 AM
That's not what you said, though. I'm not saying any of those teams listed are better but to say there isn't a debate is like saying Jordan+Hakeem are by far the better duo. That's simply not true. I'd take them but it's not out of this world if someone chose LeBron+DRob or Kobe+Shaq.


Team 1 ( Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses)

Team 1: Kobe at his peak IMO was 2002-03 and that Kobe would have held his own against Jordan. I'd take that Shaq over Hakeem, too. Hakeem would have issues guarding a much stronger player in Shaq.
Team 2: I don't think team 2 has a chance.
Team 3: Kareem outplayed Hakeem even during his old age days. Tracy is iffy here but if we're talking about Tracy's best season (one of the best season's by an NBA player), then it's not out of the ordinary to say this team would have won a few games.
Team 4: LeBron would just outmuscle Jordan but Jordan had huge hands so I'd call it a wash. Hakeem > D.Rob so I'd take Jordan+Hakeem but again, it's not otherworldly to think LeBron+D.Rob can beat them. Both of those guys put up some of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Team 6: KG and Wilt. Actually, this team is underrated. People forget KG was capable of guarding guards because he was so tall and long/quick on his feet. Jordan would have zero answer stopping KG. As I said before, Hakeem had issues guarding bigger/stronger players. Wilt would have abused Hakeem.
Team 7: No chance.
Team 8: No chance.

I'd take Team 5 but that's because I think the pairing of Jordan+Hakeem makes perfect sense. Both had range, could defend, amazing footwork, great skillset. They are just complete players at every level of the game.

Of course it is what I said. I said this thread has limited debate (which it does) because the Jordan and Hakeem team is clearly superior to the other teams. Then you disagreed and I challenged you to pick a team and make a legitimate argument to change my mind. You then proceeded to reference all the teams and explain why they are worse and how even you would still pick MJ and Dream in every match up. How is that supposed to convince me I'm wrong? Think about it. You personally pick MJ and Dream in every match up and specifically point out how almost half the teams have "no chance." If you can't even convince yourself then you haven't changed my mind.

FlashBolt
09-22-2016, 12:09 PM
Of course it is what I said. I said this thread has limited debate (which it does) because the Jordan and Hakeem team is clearly superior to the other teams. Then you disagreed and I challenged you to pick a team and make a legitimate argument to change my mind. You then proceeded to reference all the teams and explain why they are worse and how even you would still pick MJ and Dream in every match up. How is that supposed to convince me I'm wrong? Think about it. You personally pick MJ and Dream in every match up and specifically point out how almost half the teams have "no chance." If you can't even convince yourself then you haven't changed my mind.

There's a difference between saying something is clearly superior versus something being better. You can't use those two words interchangeably because they are completely different in terms of degree. Jordan+Hakeem are vastly superior to Gilbert Arenas/Dwight Howard but they are not "vastly" superior to LeBron+D.Rob. They might be better but that's exactly my point. This is an opinion and IMO, Jordan+Hakeem should beat those teams but I would not be surprised if some of those teams mentioned do pull it off. Just like how Warriors were "vastly superior" or better than the Cavs last season but as you know, Cavs won. It's not out of the ordinary.

Forget that, though. Why do you think Jordan+Hakeem are vastly superior to those teams mentioned? Please detail every scenario for every mtachup as I did.

KnicksorBust
09-22-2016, 03:00 PM
There's a difference between saying something is clearly superior versus something being better. You can't use those two words interchangeably because they are completely different in terms of degree. Jordan+Hakeem are vastly superior to Gilbert Arenas/Dwight Howard but they are not "vastly" superior to LeBron+D.Rob. They might be better but that's exactly my point. This is an opinion and IMO, Jordan+Hakeem should beat those teams but I would not be surprised if some of those teams mentioned do pull it off. Just like how Warriors were "vastly superior" or better than the Cavs last season but as you know, Cavs won. It's not out of the ordinary.

Forget that, though. Why do you think Jordan+Hakeem are vastly superior to those teams mentioned? Please detail every scenario for every mtachup as I did.

That's not what I said though. :) I never used the word vastly. See now this is getting a little silly because it seems like we just disagree on the severity of the terms used. A simple example of how I meant it:

The number 10 is clearly greater than the number 9. The number 9 has value but it is still less than 10. I'm not saying MJ and Dream would beat Durant and Dirk 100-0. If they played games to 21 and played a 7 games series I'm sure that on any given day, any team can beat any team. What I am saying is that Jordan and Hakeem are the best team and I don't believe you can legitimately argue another team is better. If you want to pick a specific duo and make a real argument for them then I am more than happy to engage you in that debate but even you picked MJ and Dream! It's hard for me to take this too seriously when you don't even believe any of the teams are better in the first place.

FlashBolt
09-23-2016, 12:16 AM
That's not what I said though. :) I never used the word vastly. See now this is getting a little silly because it seems like we just disagree on the severity of the terms used. A simple example of how I meant it:

The number 10 is clearly greater than the number 9. The number 9 has value but it is still less than 10. I'm not saying MJ and Dream would beat Durant and Dirk 100-0. If they played games to 21 and played a 7 games series I'm sure that on any given day, any team can beat any team. What I am saying is that Jordan and Hakeem are the best team and I don't believe you can legitimately argue another team is better. If you want to pick a specific duo and make a real argument for them then I am more than happy to engage you in that debate but even you picked MJ and Dream! It's hard for me to take this too seriously when you don't even believe any of the teams are better in the first place.

You're saying they are clearly superior. I'm saying they are a better team. There's a difference. And yes, I did argue how some teams are better. I picked MJ and Dream.. and then said I would not be surprised if another team would win as well. This is MY opinion. It's true that LeBron would just outmuscle MJ while the D.Rob/Dream matchup will probably go to Dream. There's no "clear superiority" that exists here. Same with Kobe and Shaq.. Shaq will abuse Dream because size was something Dream couldn't defend very well against. Kobe at his peak as I mentioned would hold his own.. Again, I'm failing to see the "clear superiority." I just gave you an example: Warriors were clearly superior to the Cavs, right? Yet, who won? So it's not impossible for one team to be better or superior and still lose. Stuff happens when you get on the court. You're just as wrong as I am in making these predictions. Btw, vastly and clearly are nearly identical in meaning. You could use them as synonyms.

KnicksorBust
09-23-2016, 10:46 AM
You're saying they are clearly superior. I'm saying they are a better team. There's a difference.

If every single person in the thread that gave an opinion believes Jordan and Hakeem are the best team, isn't it obvious who the best team is in the tournament? That's what I'm saying. That's why they are clearly superior. Because it is obvious and the overwhelming consensus opinion.


And yes, I did argue how some teams are better. I picked MJ and Dream.. and then said I would not be surprised if another team would win as well. This is MY opinion. It's true that LeBron would just outmuscle MJ while the D.Rob/Dream matchup will probably go to Dream. There's no "clear superiority" that exists here.

Then how come no one has picked another team?


Same with Kobe and Shaq.. Shaq will abuse Dream because size was something Dream couldn't defend very well against.He did Kobe at his peak as I mentioned would hold his own.. Again, I'm failing to see the "clear superiority." I just gave you an example: Warriors were clearly superior to the Cavs, right? Yet, who won? So it's not impossible for one team to be better or superior and still lose.

Of course not. I said in this thread that if MJ and Hakeem played Durant and Dirk (one of the worst teams in the tournament) in a series it is very possible for them to lose games. No debate from me on that.


Stuff happens when you get on the court. You're just as wrong as I am in making these predictions. Btw, vastly and clearly are nearly identical in meaning. You could use them as synonyms.

No they aren't. By using the word clearly I was implying that it is obvious to everyone who should be considered the best team. Vastly would imply that I thought there was a huge disparity in talent and that MJ and Dream would be dominating these 2 v 2 games. That is why I used my example of the numbers 9 and 10. 10 is not VASTLY greater than 9 but it is clearly greater than 9. Yes it is possible for the superior team to lose when the games actually get played but in a hypothetical debate where everyone is picking the same team it becomes clear who is the superior team. :)

Giannis94
09-23-2016, 11:21 AM
IF you really knew hopps then Giannis would be on the list. No giannis? WTF. I'll take him and Thanasis any and errry day

Why hasn't anyone broke down the potential for this potent duo!?!?

FlashBolt
09-24-2016, 11:08 AM
If every single person in the thread that gave an opinion believes Jordan and Hakeem are the best team, isn't it obvious who the best team is in the tournament? That's what I'm saying. That's why they are clearly superior. Because it is obvious and the overwhelming consensus opinion.



Then how come no one has picked another team?



Of course not. I said in this thread that if MJ and Hakeem played Durant and Dirk (one of the worst teams in the tournament) in a series it is very possible for them to lose games. No debate from me on that.



No they aren't. By using the word clearly I was implying that it is obvious to everyone who should be considered the best team. Vastly would imply that I thought there was a huge disparity in talent and that MJ and Dream would be dominating these 2 v 2 games. That is why I used my example of the numbers 9 and 10. 10 is not VASTLY greater than 9 but it is clearly greater than 9. Yes it is possible for the superior team to lose when the games actually get played but in a hypothetical debate where everyone is picking the same team it becomes clear who is the superior team. :)

And how many people were bullish on the Cavs beating the Warriors? Not many. In fact, after falling 1-3 vs the Warriors, you have to place a $100 bet to collect $106 on the Warriors winning. But who won? So just because people are saying "one team is better and should win", doesn't mean they will win. It's an opinion and again, you still haven't responded to this logic accordingly nor have you made a case on why you think Jordan+Hakeem would win. And seriously, not everyone on this thread said Jordan+Hakeem would win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
09-24-2016, 08:27 PM
I'm surprised you needed an argument. Everyone knew Hakeem > D.Rob. Stats doesn't have to justify any of that. It's solidified already and has been for quite some time. D.Rob is closer to Patrick Ewing than he is to Hakeem.

I'm not surprised you talk without knowing what you are talking about. I doubt you saw prime Drob play live. I really doubt it with the foolishness you spew. Most people who were watching basketball in the 90's don't think about Drob the same way you do. They know there is an argument, because they remember when David was first team NBA for like 4 years straight while Hakeem, Shaq, and Ewing were all in the league. But you don't cause you weren't watching NBA at the time. You are just briefly looking over what a few people have said and coming to a conclusion and ignoring every stat that says Drob was better. Gotta love your kind.

IKnowHoops
09-24-2016, 08:38 PM
Team 5 (Jordan & Dream)
Team 1 (Kobe & Shaq)
Team 2 (Wade & Duncan)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 8 (Magic & Moses)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 6 (KG & Wilt)
Team 7 (Durant & Dirk)

Why did you put Jordan with Dream?

No, you are right. I changed everything around. Here is the new set up.
Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)


List the order in which they finish in a 2 on 2 tournament with double elimination.

Edit: Changed the teams around to create more parody, and added two teams. Just rank them from 1 to 10.

KnicksorBust
09-26-2016, 11:16 AM
And how many people were bullish on the Cavs beating the Warriors?

Was that the first upset in the history of the NBA Finals?


Not many. In fact, after falling 1-3 vs the Warriors, you have to place a $100 bet to collect $106 on the Warriors winning. But who won? So just because people are saying "one team is better and should win", doesn't mean they will win.

But it's a hypothetical so why have a team that is clearly better than the other teams? Yes it would be entertaining if we got to see this tournament play out. And I've already conceded twice that Jordan and Hakeem might lose. But that's irrelevant in a tournament that is purely fantasy and strictly for debate.


It's an opinion and again, you still haven't responded to this logic accordingly nor have you made a case on why you think Jordan+Hakeem would win.

Jordan is the best player ever and Hakeem can play the opposing centers evenly. It's an easy case to make.


And seriously, not everyone on this thread said Jordan+Hakeem would win.

Please quote all the posts that explicitly said they were picking another team to win the tournament. I'll be sure to come back and check.

KnicksorBust
09-26-2016, 11:19 AM
No, you are right. I changed everything around. Here is the new set up.
Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)


List the order in which they finish in a 2 on 2 tournament with double elimination.

Edit: Changed the teams around to create more parody, and added two teams. Just rank them from 1 to 10.

Much harder.

Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)

IKnowHoops
09-27-2016, 11:34 PM
Much harder.

Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)

I'd go

1. Lebron & DRob
2. Durant & Wilt
3. Tracy & Kareem
4. Wade & Hakeem
5. Magic & Shaq
6. Jordan & Moses
7. Kobe & Duncan
8. Dirk & KG
9. Dr. J & Ewing
10. Steph & Russell

KnicksorBust
09-28-2016, 11:53 AM
I'd go

1. Lebron & DRob
2. Durant & Wilt
3. Tracy & Kareem
4. Wade & Hakeem
5. Magic & Shaq
6. Jordan & Moses
7. Kobe & Duncan
8. Dirk & KG
9. Dr. J & Ewing
10. Steph & Russell

Agree to disagree on most issues but the biggest surprise to me was Magic and Shaq at #5. How? Best passer ever with one of the 3 most dominant bigs ever. Offensively I don't think you can stop them.

IKnowHoops
09-28-2016, 01:12 PM
Agree to disagree on most issues but the biggest surprise to me was Magic and Shaq at #5. How? Best passer ever with one of the 3 most dominant bigs ever. Offensively I don't think you can stop them.

In a 2 on 2 game, I don't think passing means much. Secondly, magic is probably the worst scorer non-big in this whole game. Shaq while dominant is a 5 foot from the basket and in, and because Magic isn't a good shooter, he wont be able to kill you from the outside if teams decided to cheat down on Shaq.

Drob and Lebron however can kill from midrange and are both athletic freaks that can run and move faster than anyone at there position. Drob can pull any center out and allow Lebron to kill whoever is on him and be great at hitting midrange shots should Lebron need to kick it out.

Both Drob and Bron are high efficiency high level scorers that would play well off each other. Shaq is a dominant but one dimensional scorer and I don't see Magic getting great scoring opportunities based on Magic's scoring skillset. Both are back you down type scorers.

FlashBolt
09-28-2016, 01:33 PM
Was that the first upset in the history of the NBA Finals?



But it's a hypothetical so why have a team that is clearly better than the other teams? Yes it would be entertaining if we got to see this tournament play out. And I've already conceded twice that Jordan and Hakeem might lose. But that's irrelevant in a tournament that is purely fantasy and strictly for debate.



Jordan is the best player ever and Hakeem can play the opposing centers evenly. It's an easy case to make.



Please quote all the posts that explicitly said they were picking another team to win the tournament. I'll be sure to come back and check.

1) No, but upsets do happen despite a team being significantly better.. which is my point. Jordan+Hakeem may seem better but it's completely plausible for some of those combinations to beat them as well.
2) Yes.. it's a hypothetical.. which is why I conceded that it's not incorrect for anyone to say LeBron+D.Rob would be the best duo.
3) It's interesting to note that just because Jordan is the best ever, doesn't mean he's not a mortal player. We've seen Jordan lose.. so the fallacy and nostalgia with his "greatness" is always overstated. No, Jordan won't beat every team because he can't. And certainly, you are delusional if you think Jordan is THAT much better than LeBron James. He's the best player because he's achieved the most (not counting Russell's era) but there were seasons LeBron had in which he was just as good - if not better than Jordan. So what's this talk about Jordan being the best really supposed to mean when we're also talking about players who were legendary as well?

KnicksorBust
09-28-2016, 02:32 PM
In a 2 on 2 game, I don't think passing means much. Secondly, magic is probably the worst scorer non-big in this whole game. Shaq while dominant is a 5 foot from the basket and in, and because Magic isn't a good shooter, he wont be able to kill you from the outside if teams decided to cheat down on Shaq.

Drob and Lebron however can kill from midrange and are both athletic freaks that can run and move faster than anyone at there position. Drob can pull any center out and allow Lebron to kill whoever is on him and be great at hitting midrange shots should Lebron need to kick it out.

Both Drob and Bron are high efficiency high level scorers that would play well off each other. Shaq is a dominant but one dimensional scorer and I don't see Magic getting great scoring opportunities based on Magic's scoring skillset. Both are back you down type scorers.

In a 2 v 2 game how much does spacing really matter? Seriously. I've played I don't know... 5000 games of 2 v 2 throughout my 33 years and Magic's ability to score in the paint is all you need. If you are worrying about PPP and floor spacing in a 2 v 2 game then I think you have advanced metrics way too far. This notion of "well teams would cheat down on Shaq!" Like that's absurd. If teams are doubling the low block then Magic can just cut and catch an easy layup...you know because there are 0 help defenders in a 2 v 2... or run pick and rolls at the damn free throw line with that terrible defensive strategy. That would again give him easy layups or give Shaq lobs for dunks.

KnicksorBust
09-28-2016, 02:38 PM
1) No, but upsets do happen despite a team being significantly better.. which is my point. Jordan+Hakeem may seem better but it's completely plausible for some of those combinations to beat them as well.

Why do you keep saying this? I agree with you and have stated that multiple times. That doesn't prove your point.


2) Yes.. it's a hypothetical.. which is why I conceded that it's not incorrect for anyone to say LeBron+D.Rob would be the best duo.

That's exactly why it is incorrect. It's like theoretical probability vs. experimental probability. If you flip a coin twice the most likely outcome is to get heads once and tails once. If you actually flip a coin it is possible to get heads twice. It is possible to get tails twice. It is possible D-Rob and LeBron win the tournament. It is possible Magic and Moses win the tournament. But you wouldn't bet on it to happen. The point is in a hypothetical world, picking anything other than the most likely outcome is illogical.


3) It's interesting to note that just because Jordan is the best ever, doesn't mean he's not a mortal player. We've seen Jordan lose.. so the fallacy and nostalgia with his "greatness" is always overstated. No, Jordan won't beat every team because he can't. And certainly, you are delusional if you think Jordan is THAT much better than LeBron James. He's the best player because he's achieved the most (not counting Russell's era) but there were seasons LeBron had in which he was just as good - if not better than Jordan. So what's this talk about Jordan being the best really supposed to mean when we're also talking about players who were legendary as well?

I would ask you if you thought LeBron and D-Rob would beat MJ and Hakeem but I already know the answer. You picked MJ and Hakeem! Why? Because they are clearly superior to the other teams. Not vastly. :) Clearly. That's why you don't have quoted posts from other people saying that pick other teams and that's why IKH changed the teams.

FlashBolt
09-28-2016, 02:42 PM
Why do you keep saying this? I agree with you and have stated that multiple times. That doesn't prove your point.



That's exactly why it is incorrect. It's like theoretical probability vs. experimental probability. If you flip a coin twice the most likely outcome is to get heads once and tails once. If you actually flip a coin it is possible to get heads twice. It is possible to get tails twice. It is possible D-Rob and LeBron win the tournament. It is possible Magic and Moses win the tournament. But you wouldn't bet on it to happen. The point is in a hypothetical world, picking anything other than the most likely outcome is illogical.



I would ask you if you thought LeBron and D-Rob would beat MJ and Hakeem but I already know the answer. You picked MJ and Hakeem! Why? Because they are clearly superior to the other teams. Not vastly. :) Clearly. That's why you don't have quoted posts from other people saying that pick other teams and that's why IKH changed the teams.

That's precisely why I have to keep saying it.. cause you don't understand the point of it. You're confusing better team with "clearly" superior. Again, you have yet to explain how they are clearly superior. I've explained to you scenarios in which I could see Jordan+Hakeem losing. Actually, I think they'll lose to Kobe+Shaq.

Clearly and vastly are basically synonyms... But whatever, I hate dragging this on when you're using words you shouldn't be using.

IKnowHoops
09-29-2016, 12:30 AM
In a 2 v 2 game how much does spacing really matter? Seriously. I've played I don't know... 5000 games of 2 v 2 throughout my 33 years and Magic's ability to score in the paint is all you need. If you are worrying about PPP and floor spacing in a 2 v 2 game then I think you have advanced metrics way too far. This notion of "well teams would cheat down on Shaq!" Like that's absurd. If teams are doubling the low block then Magic can just cut and catch an easy layup...you know because there are 0 help defenders in a 2 v 2... or run pick and rolls at the damn free throw line with that terrible defensive strategy. That would again give him easy layups or give Shaq lobs for dunks.

But in 2 on 2 range does help. Spacing matters...1/10 of what it would in a real game but it does help. But again, I think both Lebron and David are scoring machines, and there is no chance for Shaq to guard him one on one. I honestly think David would play shaq pretty evenly one on one. There is really nobody who is going to stop David one on one at all. To fast, to athletic and very good range for a big. Then with Lebron who is also unstoppable, and Magic has shotty defense so I just dont see that team being as dominant

FlashBolt
09-29-2016, 12:54 AM
But in 2 on 2 range does help. Spacing matters...1/10 of what it would in a real game but it does help. But again, I think both Lebron and David are scoring machines, and there is no chance for Shaq to guard him one on one. I honestly think David would play shaq pretty evenly one on one. There is really nobody who is going to stop David one on one at all. To fast, to athletic and very good range for a big. Then with Lebron who is also unstoppable, and Magic has shotty defense so I just dont see that team being as dominant

You don't really need floor spacing when the court is that open. An example is how LeBron plays. The only reason he needs floor spacers is because they play zone on him. Can't play zone with just two defenders. At that point, it's either you can shoot or can't shoot. You won't see help defense the way you do in a traditional 5v5 game. I've never seen it and it's pretty obvious why. Double-teaming a player in a 2v2 is an instant bucket more often than not. LeBron is possibly the greatest 1v1 player you can have outside of a few centers. Too big, too strong, too quick. No one will guard him. I'm sorry for those who believe the jedi mindtricks Jordan supposedly has but I sure as hell don't think Jordan can stop LeBron at all.

KnicksorBust
09-29-2016, 02:20 PM
That's precisely why I have to keep saying it.. cause you don't understand the point of it. You're confusing better team with "clearly" superior. Again, you have yet to explain how they are clearly superior. I've explained to you scenarios in which I could see Jordan+Hakeem losing. Actually, I think they'll lose to Kobe+Shaq.

Clearly and vastly are basically synonyms... But whatever, I hate dragging this on when you're using words you shouldn't be using.

"clearly" - in such a way as to allow easy and accurate perception or interpretation.
"vastly" - of very great area or extent; immense

Clearly implies that is it obvious who the best team in the tournament. It's easy to pick the winner. That's why everyone was doing it and why you haven't produced a poster voting for a team other than Jordan and Hakeem. You've been so stymied that you have been reduced to convincing yourself of another team (in this case Kobe and Shaq) after repeatedly saying Jordan and Hakeem are the best team. MULTIPLE TIMES you have said this and now you are changing your mind because you would rather change your opinion then admit you were wrong in an argument about word usage. It's bizarre.

Vastly implies that Jordan and Hakeem have a great advantage in all the match ups. They would win these games in blowouts or shutouts. I've never said that and don't believe it is true. That's why I used the very simple example of the numbers 9 and 10. 10 is clearly greater than 9 but not vastly greater. That is the scenario we are dealing with in this tournament. All the teams are strong but one is clearly the strongest and has won overwhelming support of the few posters that shared their opinion.

KnicksorBust
09-29-2016, 02:30 PM
But in 2 on 2 range does help. Spacing matters...1/10 of what it would in a real game but it does help. But again, I think both Lebron and David are scoring machines, and there is no chance for Shaq to guard him one on one. I honestly think David would play shaq pretty evenly one on one. There is really nobody who is going to stop David one on one at all. To fast, to athletic and very good range for a big. Then with Lebron who is also unstoppable, and Magic has shotty defense so I just dont see that team being as dominant

Somebody back me up on this. He's saying you need to space the floor in a 2 v 2. Come on IKH. I'm imagining Magic on the perimeter and Shaq in the post. LeBron drops down to the free throw line to "cheat down" on Shaq. Shaq just takes 1 big step forward and you have a pick and roll happening at the FREE THROW LINE. With the freighttrain like Magic Johnson having a clear and easy lane to the basket where he only has to use 2 dribbles! Come on. David Robinson tries to close out at the rim and Magic just tosses it casually back to the Diesel for an unblockable dunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cEYGS8rc3I

See: 1:46 to 1:52 for a simple example of what it would look like. Over and over and over again.

valade16
09-29-2016, 03:30 PM
My only skill at basketball is outside shooting, you don't need freaking spacing in a 2 on 2 game lol.

2 on 2 is one of three things: a back door cut on your defender when he's not looking, a pick and roll, or an isolation. The second the other defender goes to help the isolation you cut to the basket for an automatic 2 pts lol.

Outside shooting certainly helps in a 2 on 2 game but only in that your isolation or pick and roll can end in a bucket in more ways than a drive, it's not necessary for spacing. In fact, why a lot of teams lose 2 on 2 is they fall in love with the outside shot and take ISO shots that brick when they should be getting to the lane.

I don't see how spacing is at all relevant. Explain to me how you plan to double the big in 2 on 2 and not give up a dunk to the wing?

KnicksorBust
09-29-2016, 03:58 PM
My only skill at basketball is outside shooting, you don't need freaking spacing in a 2 on 2 game lol.

2 on 2 is one of three things: a back door cut on your defender when he's not looking, a pick and roll, or an isolation. The second the other defender goes to help the isolation you cut to the basket for an automatic 2 pts lol.

Outside shooting certainly helps in a 2 on 2 game but only in that your isolation or pick and roll can end in a bucket in more ways than a drive, it's not necessary for spacing. In fact, why a lot of teams lose 2 on 2 is they fall in love with the outside shot and take ISO shots that brick when they should be getting to the lane.

I don't see how spacing is at all relevant. Explain to me how you plan to double the big in 2 on 2 and not give up a dunk to the wing?

Thank you.

Sanjay
01-20-2017, 12:43 AM
Team 1 ( Magic & Shaq)
Team 2 (Kobe & Duncan)
Team 3 (Tracy & Kareem)
Team 4 (Lebron & Drob)
Team 5 (Jordan & Moses)
Team 6 (Durant & Wilt)
Team 7 (Dirk & KG)
Team 8 (Wade & Hakeem)
Team 9 (Dr. J & Patrick Ewing)
Team 10 (Curry & Bill Russell)


List the order in which they finish in a 2 on 2 tournament with double elimination.

Edit: Changed the teams around to create more parody, and added two teams. Just rank them from 1 to 10.

1. Magic and Shaq
2. Durant and Wilt
3. Jordan and M. Malone
4. LeBron and Robinson
5. Erving and Ewing
6. McGrady and Abdul-Jabbar
7. Steph Curry and Bill Russell
8. Wade and Olajuwon
9. Kobe and Duncan
10. Nowitzki and Garnett

KnicksorBust
01-20-2017, 05:30 AM
All this tourney needs is wilt-duncan and oscar-kareem.