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View Full Version : Best of 7:Glove/Kawhi/ Pippen/Nowitzki/Olajuwon or IT/Wade/Jordan/Webber/Kareem



Redrum187
09-15-2016, 01:26 AM
Team 1
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kawhi Leonard
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Team 2
PG: Isiah Thomas
SG: Dwyane Wade
SF: Michael Jordan
PF: Chris Webber
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Which team wins in a 7 game series if all players where in their 3-5 year prime? One team has superior talent, the other team has a superior fit.

FlashBolt
09-15-2016, 11:56 AM
Tough one but I like Donald Trump.

Redrum187
09-15-2016, 12:41 PM
Tough one but I like Donald Trump.

I think so too. In spite of having 4 spots with inferior individual players, collectively, Team Trump would probably win in my opinion.

FlashBolt
09-15-2016, 12:54 PM
I think so too. In spite of having 4 spots with inferior individual players, collectively, Team Trump would probably win in my opinion.

The issue with team 2 is that most of those players achieved greatness with the ball in their hand. The adjustment for them will be tougher. I like team 1 just because I've seen those players excel in a 2nd option role (Kawhi under Timmy/Parker, Pippen under Jordan, Payton and Kemp were up there as well). Not to mention team 1 has the case for having four of the five greatest defenders.

mngopher35
09-15-2016, 01:14 PM
Ya team 2 is full of ball dominant players without too much range/spacing. Probably less talent overall but I can see team trump taking this due to their fit.

KnicksorBust
09-15-2016, 02:22 PM
Would be interesting to see Hakeem vs. Kareem in his mid 20s as opposed to mid 30s. Team Jordan here.

IKnowHoops
09-15-2016, 03:48 PM
Man, I think team 2 wins this going away.

HandsOnTheWheel
09-15-2016, 05:37 PM
Great thread bud.

JasonJohnHorn
09-15-2016, 09:19 PM
Why you gotta go and make me vote for Donald Trump for?


The Clinton team is going to have some serious chemistry problems, namely the Thomas/Jordan effect. THEY FAWKING HATED EACH OTHER!!! That is why Thomas was not on the Dream Team.

Add to that the fact that Webber wasn't a terribly efficient scorer and Dirk can shoot the lights our. Outside of Dirk, this is also one of the greatest defensive line-ups you could throw out there. And the fact that they are all great two-way players? Forget about it.

Why we couldn't name them team Bernie Sanders and then populate team Trump with Johnny Flynn, Austin Rivers, Harold Miner, Adam Morrison and William Bedford, I just don't know.

KingPosey
09-15-2016, 10:08 PM
Why you gotta go and make me vote for Donald Trump for?


The Clinton team is going to have some serious problems, namely the Thomas/Jordan effect. THEY FAWKING HATED EACH OTHER!!! That is why Thomas was not on the Dream Team.

Add to that the fact that Webber wasn't a terribly efficient scorer and Dirk can shoot the lights our. Outside of Dirk, this is also one of the greatest defensive line-ups you could throw out there. And the fact that they are all great two-way players? Forget about it.

Why we couldn't name them team Bernie Sanders and then populate team Trump with Johnny Flynn, Austin Rivers, Harold Miner, Adam Morrison and William Bedford, I just don't know.

Webber was efficient offensively because of his play making. And he'd also be efficient in this series because dirk is guarding him.

FlashBolt
09-15-2016, 10:11 PM
Why you gotta go and make me vote for Donald Trump for?


The Clinton team is going to have some serious problems, namely the Thomas/Jordan effect. THEY FAWKING HATED EACH OTHER!!! That is why Thomas was not on the Dream Team.

Add to that the fact that Webber wasn't a terribly efficient scorer and Dirk can shoot the lights our. Outside of Dirk, this is also one of the greatest defensive line-ups you could throw out there. And the fact that they are all great two-way players? Forget about it.

Why we couldn't name them team Bernie Sanders and then populate team Trump with Johnny Flynn, Austin Rivers, Harold Miner, Adam Morrison and William Bedford, I just don't know.

I forgot about that. If we're including relationships, it would probably be disastrous for those two to operate on the same team. On a side note, Trump would Make Adam Morrison Great Again!

JasonJohnHorn
09-16-2016, 07:40 AM
Webber was efficient offensively because of his play making. And he'd also be efficient in this series because dirk is guarding him.

Dirk isn't a 'terrible' defender, not in his prime, even if he wasn't a 'strong' defender. But you did change my wording in an important way. I said Webber was't a terribly efficient scorer; you are addressing his efficiency on offense. His passing is a different conversation than his scoring. I don't disagree that he was a great passer.

But even if Dirk is a little less than stellar on D, you forget all the help he'd have defensively, most especially from Hakeem. I think you also underestimate how much Dirk's length would help him in guarding Webber.

FlashBolt
09-16-2016, 10:39 AM
Dirk isn't a 'terrible' defender, not in his prime, even if he wasn't a 'strong' defender. But you did change my wording in an important way. I said Webber was't a terribly efficient scorer; you are addressing his efficiency on offense. His passing is a different conversation than his scoring. I don't disagree that he was a great passer.

But even if Dirk is a little less than stellar on D, you forget all the help he'd have defensively, most especially from Hakeem. I think you also underestimate how much Dirk's length would help him in guarding Webber.

So are we going to forget that Kareem is on Webber's team?

mrblisterdundee
09-16-2016, 02:17 PM
Team 1
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kawhi Leonard
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Team 2
PG: Isiah Thomas
SG: Dwyane Wade
SF: Michael Jordan
PF: Chris Webber
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Which team wins in a 7 game series if all players where in their 3-5 year prime? One team has superior talent, the other team has a superior fit.

I'm taking the team with five Defensive Player of the Year awards between them and that doesn't include Pippen. Payton, Pippen, Leonard and Olajuwon are basically the best you could ever hope for to defend Thomas, Wade, Jordan and Abdul-Jabbar, maybe with the exception of Dennis Rodman.
They also spread the floor better with the shooting of Pippen, Leonard and Nowitzki. While he's the biggest weakness on defense, Nowitzki will shoot over everyone, including Abdul-Jabbar. He could be the team's leading scorer, if Olajuwon doesn't school everyone in the post.

FlashBolt
09-16-2016, 05:32 PM
I'm taking the team with five Defensive Player of the Year awards between them and that doesn't include Pippen. Payton, Pippen, Leonard and Olajuwon are basically the best you could ever hope for to defend Thomas, Wade, Jordan and Abdul-Jabbar, maybe with the exception of Dennis Rodman.
They also spread the floor better with the shooting of Pippen, Leonard and Nowitzki. While he's the biggest weakness on defense, Nowitzki will shoot over everyone, including Abdul-Jabbar. He could be the team's leading scorer, if Olajuwon doesn't school everyone in the post.

Would be a better debate if you take out Dirk and replace him with KG and Webber with TD.

Shammyguy3
09-16-2016, 10:13 PM
Team 1. Why? Well, because the best shooter on team 2 is Jordan by a mile, but he prefers to operate in the middle and paint. Where does Isiah operate? The paint. Wade? The paint. Webber? middle and paint. Kareem? Middle and mostly paint.

Kawhi/Dirk can operate on the perimeter far easier. The fit, the superior defense, and the dynamic of Jordan hating Isiah makes me pick team 1

FlashBolt
09-16-2016, 11:18 PM
I'm curious as to how many are choosing team 2 under the belief that Jordan wouldn't let his team lose or some narrative like that. I remember when Skip Bayless said he'll take Jordan and four bums over five other all-time greats because Jordan was never going to let them down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Redrum187
09-17-2016, 09:51 PM
I don't see Team 2 working on offense as efficiently as Team 1. Plus, Team 1 can have a share time guarding Jordan. Pippen/Claw/Glove on Jordan would be pretty insane.

KnicksorBust
09-19-2016, 03:16 PM
It amazes me how Wade gets almost no credit in these all-time matchups but Kawhi Leonard is getting talked up.

Shammyguy3
09-20-2016, 09:05 AM
It amazes me how Wade gets almost no credit in these all-time matchups but Kawhi Leonard is getting talked up.

I think a lot of it has to do with recent memory syndrome. Plus, Wade doesn't have back to back DPOYs. And with Jordan/Thomas/Webber/Kareem he has 4 other really high usage players, whereas Leonard doesn't have to fit into high usage guys so much.

Swap the two players
Glove - Wade - Pippen - Dirk - Hakeem
Thomas - Jordan - Leonard - Webber - Kareem

and i think it's a different discussion

YAALREADYKNO
09-20-2016, 09:38 AM
It amazes me how Wade gets almost no credit in these all-time matchups but Kawhi Leonard is getting talked up.

Because Kawhi is supposed to be the Lebron Stopper

YAALREADYKNO
09-20-2016, 09:42 AM
I'm curious as to how many are choosing team 2 under the belief that Jordan wouldn't let his team lose or some narrative like that. I remember when Skip Bayless said he'll take Jordan and four bums over five other all-time greats because Jordan was never going to let them down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Michael Jordan
Tiago Splitter
Rasho Nesterovic
Kwame Brown
Stanislav Medvedenko

https://youtu.be/VBqsmMlZUqI
Starts at 8:30 lol had me laughing when I saw this happen

KnicksorBust
09-20-2016, 11:37 AM
I think a lot of it has to do with recent memory syndrome. Plus, Wade doesn't have back to back DPOYs. And with Jordan/Thomas/Webber/Kareem he has 4 other really high usage players, whereas Leonard doesn't have to fit into high usage guys so much.

Swap the two players
Glove - Wade - Pippen - Dirk - Hakeem
Thomas - Jordan - Leonard - Webber - Kareem

and i think it's a different discussion

In all seriousness do you believe that Kawhi is more valuable in this matchup than Wade?

KnicksorBust
09-20-2016, 11:39 AM
Because Kawhi is supposed to be the Lebron Stopper

Kawhi is being overrated. Yes. But I also think Wade is being severely underrated. Which is surprising because his peak is so much more recent than Pippen/Payton/Thomas/Hakeem/Etc.

kdspurman
09-20-2016, 12:19 PM
Because Kawhi is supposed to be the Lebron Stopper

It's cause he's the best perimeter defender in the league, and will likely go down as 1 of the best ever if he continues at this rate. I don't think it has anything to do with Lebron, he's just another superstar that Kawhi defends very well.

I do think Wade is being underrated here as well however.

Shammyguy3
09-20-2016, 06:26 PM
In all seriousness do you believe that Kawhi is more valuable in this matchup than Wade?

in a vacuum Wade is much more valuable. Why? Because of his super-star scoring ability. However, him playing next to other super-star scorers in Jordan/Kareem mitigates his overall value. Kawhi's shooting/defense is more valuable to his team because his value will be maximized having to guard Jordan or Wade.

Wade is still more valuable in this matchup, but his vacuum value is lowered and Kawhi's is increased.

FlashBolt
09-20-2016, 11:29 PM
Wade needs the ball to dominate and I think that's where his individual talent is extremely limited. One possession is massively important for team 2 because it's an advantage they have over team 2 and quite frankly, I'd rather have Jordan taking every possession than Wade. It's really as simple as building a team. A perfect example is Draymond Green. Individually, you're a fool to choose Green over Davis just because the talent gap is in Davis's favor. But in a team, you can certainly argue that Draymond is more effective just because of everything he can bring to an elite team while not having possession of the ball. Team 1 has defense and it's tough to score when you're playing against four all-time great defenders. Kawhi has an opportunity to become the greatest perimeter defender down the line. And for those of you who think Wade at his prime would take a dump at Kawhi, hey, LeBron at his prime had issues getting past Kawhi so let's not forget that Kawhi is also a special player here.