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Shammyguy3
09-10-2016, 04:28 PM
Remember, this is based on RIGHT NOW, not necessarily who was the best this past season, or who will be the best. It's a tricky debate, how much do you factor in the playoffs? Injuries? Team-fit? Etc. Here's what we have so far:


1. Lebron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. Kevin Durant
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Kawhi Leonard
6. Chris Paul
7. Anthony Davis
8. Paul George
9. James Harden
10. Draymond Green
11. DeMarcus Cousins
12. Blake Griffin
13. Jimmy Butler
14. Klay Thompson
15. Damian Lillard
16. LaMarcus Aldridge
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Carmelo Anthony
19. Kyle Lowry
20. John Wall
21. Karl-Anthony Towns
22. Paul Millsap
23. Marc Gasol
24. Al Horford
25. Dwyane Wade
26. Kevin Love
27. Giannis Antetokounmpo
28. DeAndre Jordan
29. ??

Chronz
09-10-2016, 06:56 PM
Lots of arguments here, DD is currently the most accomplished+productive+peak level player but I personally enjoy Haywards game more despite the lack of accolades and team success, feel the same way about Middleton.

Drummond is a statistical monster and the biggest late game liability, if he were as good as DJ defensively I would have voted for him ahead of now but being such a bad FT shooter makes a huge difference when you go from DJ bad or Dwight bad to Drummond bad. Drummond would kill to be as good a FT shooter as Shaq.

Dirk has to go soon because if he and DJ were on the same team, I think they would have comparable value overall, with Dirk being the biggest intangibles guy left.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2016, 08:07 PM
what about Mike Conley? Yes he was injured and last year wasn't as good as his 14/15 campaign, but he's a floor general with a good all-around game.

LanceUpperCut
09-10-2016, 08:10 PM
It's funny how people actually call DeMar overrated yet he might not even be voted top 30 and will surely end up carrying his team to a better record with better numbers and is young well still improving then half of these guys.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2016, 08:22 PM
It's funny how people actually call DeMar overrated yet he might not even be voted top 30 and will surely end up carrying his team to a better record with better numbers and is young well still improving then half of these guys.

He's not the one carrying his team though, Lowry is.
And DeRozan's numbers are not better than most people already voted on in the poll and a good number of what is left to vote for. Without factoring in how limited he is as a general for an offense and how limited he is defensively too.

5ass
09-10-2016, 09:01 PM
Lots of arguments here, DD is currently the most accomplished+productive+peak level player but I personally enjoy Haywards game more despite the lack of accolades and team success, feel the same way about Middleton.

Drummond is a statistical monster and the biggest late game liability, if he were as good as DJ defensively I would have voted for him ahead of now but being such a bad FT shooter makes a huge difference when you go from DJ bad or Dwight bad to Drummond bad. Drummond would kill to be as good a FT shooter as Shaq.

Dirk has to go soon because if he and DJ were on the same team, I think they would have comparable value overall, with Dirk being the biggest intangibles guy left.

I just can't vote for Drummond over DJ. DJ is a better defender and a much, much more efficiency offensive player. Drummond has a TS% of 50, DJ is at 63%. I think DJ is clearly better than Drummond, but for now, I'm voting Conley.

JAZZNC
09-10-2016, 09:15 PM
I have to go Hayward here and from here on out. Averaged 20/5/4 on decent percentages, plays good defense, and averaged those numbers being the only creator/facilitator on offense. And despite having literally the worst PG play in the NBA and missing his defensive anchor for a third of the season still got the team to 40 wins. All he is missing is accolades and team success. He will get both of those things this year I believe and will be more efficient with an actual starting caliber PG on the roster and having some more shooting to help spread the floor for him.

Chronz
09-10-2016, 09:25 PM
I just can't vote for Drummond over DJ. DJ is a better defender and a much, much more efficiency offensive player. Drummond has a TS% of 50, DJ is at 63%. I think DJ is clearly better than Drummond, but for now, I'm voting Conley.

God damn do they foul him that much or is he taking more shots as the guy who WANTS to be a bigger option? Both are bad but one is more understandable than the other. I feel like if Drummond had the right cast then maybe he wouldnt demand the type of touches that lead to more fouls, if he played within himself the way Dwight failed to, he could be a greater player. If the answer is hes not a team player then I agree with you, this is why I disagreed with you in the Biyombo debate, precisely because DJ IS a TEAM player, he could and almost did leave for a bigger role precisely because hes proven capable of more, but he changed his mind because he'd rather contend. DJ IS a team player so plz dont try to convince FAR drastically inferior players are better because of their inferior team play.

LanceUpperCut
09-10-2016, 09:31 PM
It's funny how people actually call DeMar overrated yet he might not even be voted top 30 and will surely end up carrying his team to a better record with better numbers and is young well still improving then half of these guys.

He's not the one carrying his team though, Lowry is.
And DeRozan's numbers are not better than most people already voted on in the poll and a good number of what is left to vote for. Without factoring in how limited he is as a general for an offense and how limited he is defensively too.

It's definitely not just Lowry, it's both almost equally. I always here the limited thing but if he was so limited he would not be averaging 20+ points on a team that's had a top 5 record over the last 3 years.

Your post completely goes along with my underrated comment.

Chronz
09-10-2016, 09:32 PM
I have to go Hayward here and from here on out. Averaged 20/5/4 on decent percentages, plays good defense, and averaged those numbers being the only creator/facilitator on offense. And despite having literally the worst PG play in the NBA and missing his defensive anchor for a third of the season still got the team to 40 wins. All he is missing is accolades and team success. He will get both of those things this year I believe and will be more efficient with an actual starting caliber PG on the roster and having some more shooting to help spread the floor for him.

Im buying Jazz stock this year. More than most, I think yall are a 50 win team at the least, look forward to beating yall in R.2

SportsFanatic10
09-10-2016, 09:36 PM
I voted Whiteside, just because he's in the poll twice.

Dade County
09-11-2016, 10:20 AM
I voted Whiteside, just because he's in the poll twice.

Lol

I was just about to let the op know that.

Shammyguy3
09-11-2016, 12:27 PM
Just fixed the poll

AllDay28
09-11-2016, 12:46 PM
No love for cj McCullom?

5ass
09-11-2016, 03:36 PM
God damn do they foul him that much or is he taking more shots as the guy who WANTS to be a bigger option? Both are bad but one is more understandable than the other. I feel like if Drummond had the right cast then maybe he wouldnt demand the type of touches that lead to more fouls, if he played within himself the way Dwight failed to, he could be a greater player. If the answer is hes not a team player then I agree with you, this is why I disagreed with you in the Biyombo debate, precisely because DJ IS a TEAM player, he could and almost did leave for a bigger role precisely because hes proven capable of more, but he changed his mind because he'd rather contend. DJ IS a team player so plz dont try to convince FAR drastically inferior players are better because of their inferior team play.

Drummn definitely takes more shots than he's supposed to. He thinks he's a scorer and SVG is definitely catering to his wants because he's learned his lesson for the Dwight era: if you want to stay employed, keep your best player happy.

This what rivers had to say about Jordan yesterday:
He sees himself now as a star, Rivers said. As good as he is, I dont think hes ever seen himself as one. Hes always been the third guy so hes looked at himself as a role player in some ways. Now he knows how good he is and I think any time youre around winning, its important, and I think DJ now knows what winning looks like.

Actually Drummond is exactly why I said I don't really want DJ. If DJ feels like a star he's going to demand scoring opportunities because the Magic dont have any big name players. I do not want DJ turning into another Drummond. He'd be the oldest, most accomplished and highest paid player. He's goignto demand touches and might not have that same mentality that CP+BG are able to keep him in. If that's the case, then I'd much rather stick with Vucevic and Biyombo because Vucevic and DJ sure as hell isn't going to work together. DJ wont agree to play less than 30mpg to open up minutes for Vucevic. So now you're left with the Magic's best go to scorer playing less than 20-22 mpg? Eventually the Magic are going to trade Vucevic I think. It would be wise if we got a non-center in return, and let Biyombo become a starter. The Magic should be targeting a go to scorer who can shoot and get to the FT line. You had the Magic giving up Ibaka and Biyombo for DJ, basically just because he's a "star". DJ isn't the type of star you want to build around. Ibaka and Biyombo with a guy like Frank Vogel as coach almost automatically makes you a top 10 defensive team IMO, and more often than not, those teams make the play offs.

5ass
09-11-2016, 03:41 PM
I voted Conley here, but I was going to go with Hayward. He's definitely underrated, though I've heard Jazz fans state Gobert is the more valuable player.

Seizabmc
09-11-2016, 08:08 PM
Wow you people are joking right !!!!
Now I know for sure that this tread is a comedy bit .
Once I saw the Greek freek is on the board and u haven't even seen derozan or Isaiah Thomas , two guys who's teams were in the playoffs last year . But the Greek freek is ahead of them ,
Ha lol , for a min I thought you guys were serious but now I know that this is a joke

FlashBolt
09-11-2016, 11:06 PM
Wow you people are joking right !!!!
Now I know for sure that this tread is a comedy bit .
Once I saw the Greek freek is on the board and u haven't even seen derozan or Isaiah Thomas , two guys who's teams were in the playoffs last year . But the Greek freek is ahead of them ,
Ha lol , for a min I thought you guys were serious but now I know that this is a joke

1) DeRozan isn't even the best player on his team.
2) I would have put Isaiah Thomas a bit earlier but this is about the upcoming season. I like Giannis's growth. I feel Thomas has hit his peak whereas Giannis is still improving. With short guys like Thomas, there's really not much improvement to be had.

basch152
09-12-2016, 12:22 AM
LOL at the guy that said DJ is a more efficient offensive player than drummond. Just, LOL.

He's more efficient because he's ****ing trash offensively and all his scoring comes from being set up by the best passer in the NBA.

Chronz
09-12-2016, 01:14 AM
LOL at the guy that said DJ is a more efficient offensive player than drummond. Just, LOL.

He's more efficient because he's ****ing trash offensively and all his scoring comes from being set up by the best passer in the NBA.

Except nobody is dumb enough to think hes trash offensively and we definitely aren't dumb enough to assume 1 player creates another entirely, at least at this level.

JAZZNC
09-12-2016, 11:43 AM
I voted Conley here, but I was going to go with Hayward. He's definitely underrated, though I've heard Jazz fans state Gobert is the more valuable player.

Gobert is certainly important but he is pretty garbage offensively. We have others who play excellent D including his front court mate Favors. However, Hayward was the only real offensive option. Hood came along last year but Hayward just does it all for the Jazz, I'm glad Dennis finally saw fit to sign some legit talent to help Hayward on offense instead of trying to "develop" D-League talent which just simply wasn't working.

Vee-Rex
09-12-2016, 11:49 AM
LOL at the guy that said DJ is a more efficient offensive player than drummond. Just, LOL.

He's more efficient because he's ****ing trash offensively and all his scoring comes from being set up by the best passer in the NBA.

You're right in that comparing DJ's efficiency to other bigs isn't really something we should weigh heavily. DJ benefits from CP3... but remember his high efficiency is also due to him knowing how to play within the confines of his own game. A lot of guys don't do this... so DJ should still be commended for it.

So while I won't really knock another big for having lower efficiency, I also won't knock DJ for being able to put up 70% FG.

hugepatsfan
09-12-2016, 01:35 PM
I go Hayward and then IT.

I see Conley being mentioned over IT and IMO that's wrong. Conley is better all around but I think the extra burden IT can take on offensively makes him better despite less of an all around game.

5ass
09-12-2016, 04:01 PM
You're right in that comparing DJ's efficiency to other bigs isn't really something we should weigh heavily. DJ benefits from CP3... but remember his high efficiency is also due to him knowing how to play within the confines of his own game. A lot of guys don't do this... so DJ should still be commended for it.

So while I won't really knock another big for having lower efficiency, I also won't knock DJ for being able to put up 70% FG.
Drummond wants to be a go to scorer. He posts up often (I'm pretty sure 1st or second in the league) and shoots 40% on post up plays. Turns the ball over a lot and isn't a decent passer.

There's some benefit in having a big man who can post up a little. It makes the offense less predictable and you have a weapon that can maybe take advantage of the lack of size the other team might have. Also Drummond is still very young, so he should continue to improve. I just think Drummond doesn't yet understand his limits on the offensive end. I've seen him pout more than once. Either because he had to be taken out of the game after missing FTs or for not getting his touches.

5ass
09-12-2016, 04:04 PM
Gobert is certainly important but he is pretty garbage offensively. We have others who play excellent D including his front court mate Favors. However, Hayward was the only real offensive option. Hood came along last year but Hayward just does it all for the Jazz, I'm glad Dennis finally saw fit to sign some legit talent to help Hayward on offense instead of trying to "develop" D-League talent which just simply wasn't working.

Yeah I think Hayward is a good choice. I should've voted for him. He's a 20-4-5 guy on good efficiency despite being the #1 option on offense and playing on a slow paced team without big men who stretch the floor.

mrblisterdundee
09-12-2016, 04:49 PM
It's definitely not just Lowry, it's both almost equally. I always here the limited thing but if he was so limited he would not be averaging 20+ points on a team that's had a top 5 record over the last 3 years.
Your post completely goes along with my underrated comment.

DeRozan's awesome at getting to the line. Free throws are about one-third of his offense. But until he becomes a reliable shooter, don't expect much love. He shot nearly 34 percent last year, up 6 percent from the previous year. Hopefully he keeps that incremental improvement going.

mrblisterdundee
09-12-2016, 04:53 PM
1) DeRozan isn't even the best player on his team.
2) I would have put Isaiah Thomas a bit earlier but this is about the upcoming season. I like Giannis's growth. I feel Thomas has hit his peak whereas Giannis is still improving. With short guys like Thomas, there's really not much improvement to be had.

Giannis' rank is a lot of speculation on our parts. But the short stint as Point Giannis was pretty damn good last season. He just needs to get an outside shot.

shooterone
09-12-2016, 05:01 PM
I don't often post here, but, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. DeRozan and Lowry are 1 and 1a with the Raptors, the same Raptors team that made a series out of the ECF's. DeRozan has gotten better in every aspect of his game since he's come to the league, no coincidence that the Raptors have also gotten better each year. It's not ALL Lowry. The fact that Demar isn't going to crack top 30 in this poll after taking his team to game 6 of the ECF's is a joke.
Shooterone out

FlashBolt
09-12-2016, 06:47 PM
Giannis' rank is a lot of speculation on our parts. But the short stint as Point Giannis was pretty damn good last season. He just needs to get an outside shot.

I'm not worrying about his outside shot as some people are but I do think that would take his game to another level. We're talking about someone who doesn't have LeBron's power but his length alone is getting 17 points. If he bulks up and develops a shot, 25 points is something he can achieve. Plus, he gets fouled often due to defenders underestimating his explosiveness. He can also rebound, pass, and defend. Who knows how he will develop? All I know is he keeps on getting better and now that Jason Kidd has figured out how to properly use him, I will expect him to be much better this season as well.

Seizabmc
09-12-2016, 10:27 PM
So what your saying is that thread is all speculation on how you guys think these players will perform this upcoming season ?
Well if that's the case than where's Kp at ?
Because he's gonna eat most of these big men on this list up for breakfast

mrblisterdundee
09-12-2016, 11:40 PM
So what your saying is that thread is all speculation on how you guys think these players will perform this upcoming season ?
Well if that's the case than where's Kp at ?
Because he's gonna eat most of these big men on this list up for breakfast

I agree that Porzingis is going to be one of the best power forward-center combos in the league next year. He's easily the second-best player from last year's draft. I feel like Arvydas Sabonis came over when he was 19 instead of 31.

Edit: I kind of feel that way about Towns, too.

nycericanguy
09-13-2016, 12:34 PM
OP says this is supposed to be RIGHT NOW, not future projections.

otherwise yes, KP, Towns, & Giannis would be higher.

Shammyguy3
09-13-2016, 01:25 PM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?914143-30th-Best-Player-in-the-NBA-(FINAL-THREAD!)

final thread!