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Shammyguy3
09-08-2016, 12:18 AM
Remember, this is based on RIGHT NOW, not necessarily who was the best this past season, or who will be the best. It's a tricky debate, how much do you factor in the playoffs? Injuries? Team-fit? Etc. Here's what we have so far:


1. Lebron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. Kevin Durant
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Kawhi Leonard
6. Chris Paul
7. Anthony Davis
8. Paul George
9. James Harden
10. Draymond Green
11. DeMarcus Cousins
12. Blake Griffin
13. Jimmy Butler
14. Klay Thompson
15. Damian Lillard
16. LaMarcus Aldridge
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Carmelo Anthony
19. Kyle Lowry
20. John Wall
21. Karl-Anthony Towns
22. Paul Millsap
23. Marc Gasol
24. Al Horford
25. Dwyane Wade
26. Kevin Love
27. Giannis Antetokounmpo
28. ??

Bruno
09-08-2016, 02:22 AM
Gobert: 41% allowed at rim. 32.8 contest percentage.
Jordan: 46.5% allowed at rim, 30% contest percentage.
Whiteside: 46.9% allowed at rim, 41.2 contest percentage.

Whiteside has the lowest protection averages but he also contests 11% more than DeAndre and 8+% more than Gobert. He may not be as good at it, but he attempts more often, which pays out. I think his high contest percentage is related to his lower overall defensive activity. Because he moves less and shadows weak-side less often than DeAndre and Gobert, who have lower contest percentages but higher overall movement/defensive activity.

If you look at the tracking data in defensive miles ran per game, DeAndre is the leader.

DeAndre- 1.03 miles ran per game on defense.
Gobert: 0.97 "
Whiteside: 0.87 "

So what I buy based off the numbers is that Gobert is the best vertical shot impacter, but not as dynamic or hounding as DeAndre. I buy that Whiteside is probably the weakest in verticality but because of his low defensive activity, particularly outside of the paint that he's the most available and has the most quantity in overall contests, the most steady at rim presence. Maybe because of his game, maybe because of his role and team or both. And I buy that DeAndre contests the least amount of actual shots but that he creates other more frequent defensive problems for opponents than the other two players because of his activity.

They all have particular strengths and weaknesses. they all have the same role but they execute them in slightly different ways. I go DeAndre here because it's close and only he's missed seven games in six seasons. he's peaking right now.

Shammyguy3
09-08-2016, 08:13 AM
That's pretty cool and interesting. However, how are those percentages calculated? Is it the rate when the player is on the floor, or is it the rate for the whole game (meaning you get a better percentage, or should, if you play more minutes and can thus have the opportunity to defend more possessions). Also, I think team role plays a factor. If you have a perimeter defense that gambles a lot you will be required to cover effectively more than others (think Garnett on Boston with Rondo in the perimeter)

Giannis94
09-08-2016, 11:45 AM
Other. Money Middleton

kdspurman
09-08-2016, 12:28 PM
Going DeAndre as well

Chronz
09-08-2016, 07:23 PM
Giannis hasn't even been the best player on his own teams and he goes ahead of DJ? You guys are either underrating DJ or you're expecting a MASSIVE jump in the Greeks game.

kdspurman
09-08-2016, 11:06 PM
Giannis hasn't even been the best player on his own teams and he goes ahead of DJ? You guys are either underrating DJ or you're expecting a MASSIVE jump in the Greeks game.

If I had to guess I'd go with the latter (in terms of why he was voted where he was) I wouldn't have voted for him just yet but I guess people expect a big jump next season.

5ass
09-08-2016, 11:15 PM
Yeah I also feel Giannis went too high

Shammyguy3
09-08-2016, 11:40 PM
i think DeAndre is definitely in that 20-26ish range so he is due

Dade County
09-09-2016, 12:15 AM
Whiteside offensive game grow as the season went along, he should be ahead of jordan, but people will take notice of his game this upcoming season.

Shammyguy3
09-09-2016, 12:24 AM
Whiteside offensive game grow as the season went along, he should be ahead of jordan, but people will take notice of his game this upcoming season.

at what point did it grow enough where he should be ahead of Jordan? also, that's if you think their defense is equal and it isn't

Dade County
09-09-2016, 12:47 AM
at what point did it grow enough where he should be ahead of Jordan? also, that's if you think their defense is equal and it isn't

What Whiteside brings on the offensive end is more then what Jordan has ever shown. Not trying to say that Whiteside is the main option or anything like that.

You are a bulls fan so i think you have seen some games where Whiteside has showen he can hit an open jumper or two. Also i like Whiteside defense, he just needs to stop worrying about the refs when he is playing one on one D against a back to the basket players. He is weak in that area when it comes to someone trying to muscle him.

But overall, I really believe that over 80% of GM's would throw money at Whiteside over D jordan.

Shammyguy3
09-09-2016, 12:54 AM
What Whiteside brings on the offensive end is more then what Jordan has ever shown. Not trying to say that Whiteside is the main option or anything like that.

You are a bulls fan so i think you have seen some games where Whiteside has showen he can hit an open jumper or two. Also i like Whiteside defense, he just needs to stop worrying about the refs when he is playing one on one D against a back to the basket players. He is weak in that area when it comes to someone trying to muscle him.

But overall, I really believe that over 80% of GM's would throw money at Whiteside over D jordan.

I disagree that Whiteside brings more on the offensive end. He might be more dynamic, in that he can shoot a jump-shot, but that doesn't mean what he brings is necessarily more. For example, to really simplify things, Draymond Green could do far more things than Shaq could offensively but Shaq's production was far greater. Now that was a really black/white explanation, but it makes my point.

Even if i did say that Whiteside was better as a scorer, that doesn't mean he's a better offensive player. Knowing how to occupy space, set picks, not turn the ball over also factor into it. And frankly by the defensive numbers Jordan is better than Whiteside.

Chronz
09-09-2016, 01:58 PM
Very curious to see Whiteside after a contract extension

mrblisterdundee
09-10-2016, 12:34 PM
Kevin Love before DeAndre Jordan, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Hassan Whiteside. That makes sense.