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View Full Version : Olajuwon Should Move up Your Top 10 Greatest List



Tony_Starks
08-09-2016, 02:37 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the best basketball players of all time. He was dominant offensively and defensively. He is the NBA career leader in blocks. People still talk about his patented “Dream Shake,” and for years NBA big men have turned to Olajuwon to try and hone their post moves. This is all impressive but what is perhaps even more impressive is that one time while filming a commercial Olajuwon ate 100 Chicken McNuggets.

Olajuwon was filming a McDonald’s commercial wherein the premise required him to slam dunk Chicken McNuggets into his mouth. For unknown reasons, it took a while to get the commercial exactly right, leading to a taping that took five hours and over 100 takes. Most people would dunk the McNugget into their mouth and then spit it out. Not Olajuwon, who ate every single McNugget he popped into his mouth.


Eventually, a producer asked The Dream if he would prefer if they replaced the McNuggets with something inedible, to keep Olajuwon’s intake down. He declined, saying, “I like these things. Let’s keep doing it.” This is the magic of Hakeem Olajuwon. In addition to being a legendary basketball player, he was a remorseless McNugget eating machine. The only disappointment is that we don’t know just how many McNuggets Olajuwon could eat. Maybe he could have been some sort of McNugget version of Joey Chestnut. Oh well. At least he has his basketball resume to fall back on.

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/hakeem-olajuwon-at-over-100-chicken-mcnuggets/

Hawkeye15
08-09-2016, 03:03 PM
I already personally have him top 7

MassoDio
08-09-2016, 03:13 PM
I already personally have him top 7

Ditto

Tony_Starks
08-09-2016, 03:14 PM
I already personally have him top 7

This should move him to 6....right behind Kobe 😏

PowerHouse
08-09-2016, 03:50 PM
He's already in my top 5.

Vee-Rex
08-09-2016, 03:50 PM
This should move him to 6....right behind Kobe 😏

Eh, Kobe should be everyone's #1. :D

I think Olajuwon is underrated. Career-wise he's borderline top 10 IMO, but talent-wise, I think The Dream is top 5, maybe top 3 all-time.

Edit: Dream is top 3 in talent. He had zero weaknesses. Zero. Post-game. Check. Jump shooting. Check. Stealing, shot-blocking, defending, athleticism, passing, rebounding paint-scoring, great fundamentals, best footwork of any big-man in NBA history, etc... he was not only good at all these things, but GREAT.

His 3-point shooting wasn't good but it would be bogus to include that.

Rivera
08-09-2016, 03:53 PM
That's it? Only 100? I think I can beat that. I love me some McNuggets

Hawkeye15
08-09-2016, 03:58 PM
This should move him to 6....right behind Kobe ��

man you're consistent :)

IKnowHoops
08-09-2016, 04:12 PM
I have him anywhere from 4 to 7. depending on where i put Wilt, Jabbar and Drob.

RB#20
08-09-2016, 04:37 PM
Greatest Center of all time.

mngopher35
08-09-2016, 04:50 PM
If the person he would move above is Magic should I still move him up Tony?

100 nuggets seems a little gross and I even like them. If we are talking about their fries then I can see eating ridiculous amounts though.

FlashBolt
08-09-2016, 06:49 PM
I would think many people have Hakeem ranked in their top ten list. He's right behind Shaq for me.

Shlumpledink
08-09-2016, 06:59 PM
He's on my Mt Rushmore. Dominance with skill is something you don't often see from the center position.

Eating chicken mcnuggets and being an athlete is also really difficult. I can eat 10 before my weekend is ruined. 100 is too risky for me.

nastynice
08-09-2016, 09:46 PM
Oh the man's a beast. I have him as a tier 1 player along with Jordan, shaq, probably where lebron will end up. Take your pick depending on what type of team you wanna build, these are probably the guys you're gonna start with.

Shlumpledink
08-09-2016, 10:03 PM
Oh the man's a beast. I have him as a tier 1 player along with Jordan, shaq, probably where lebron will end up. Take your pick depending on what type of team you wanna build, these are probably the guys you're gonna start with.

That starting 4 can beat most other starting 5s. Ridiculous team that would be.

Scoots
08-09-2016, 10:05 PM
Favorite Dream moment ... When Gheorghe Muresan was a rookie, Hakeem had him in the post and put a double move on him and Muresan was right there between him and the basket, he did another couple moves and he was STILL there, he couldn't shake him! Then Hakeem realized that Muresan hadn't finished reacting to the first move yet and just went right around him for an easy bucket.

Still one of the funniest things I've ever seen in the NBA

europagnpilgrim
08-09-2016, 10:47 PM
After the Big Dipper he is right there with Shaq-Kareem-Moses-D Robinson and a few others, some may have him over those 4 and its fine and dandy since he has a case but he has none over the Big Dipper, not even close and I have super big respect for the Dream(loved his arsenal/attributes), that record for blocked shots is Russell/Dipper record by a long shot, they probably avg 10 per game for entire careers or close to it but too bad it didn't get kept track back then when Dipper was blocking 26 shots in games, some coach use to have the team stat man keep track of Dipper blocks and he had 25 blocks against that opponent, unreal

I think the coach was the late great dr. Jack Ramsay who had his stat people do that

and lastly the Dream should have never eaten those nuggets lets alone 100 of them, processed garbage at its finest, McDonalds foods is trash, any place with a dollar menu is poor quality, basically fake food

buy a real chicken breast and make your own nuggets then go buy some at McDonalds and see the difference for yourself

FraziersKnicks
08-09-2016, 11:57 PM
I've got him #7 behind MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, LBJ and Timmy.

More-Than-Most
08-10-2016, 12:51 AM
I have him top 7 with kobe being 8-10 :shrug:

I dont think he deserves to be ahead of Duncan/Lebron/Jordan/Wilt/Shaq/Magic/KAJ but wouldnt be mad if people have him 4-7

I feel bad for the people that didnt get to see this guy in his prime... There is a silver lining... His equal will start his career this season in Embiid... If you wanna see a prime Keem tune it baby

Chronz
08-10-2016, 03:40 AM
Prolly the most overrated player I grew up watching and then became properly rated by most. Top-8 is as far as Im willing to go.

hidalgo
08-10-2016, 03:41 AM
he's in my top 10 for sure. it'll take a lot to boot him out

naps
08-10-2016, 04:45 AM
This should move him to 6....right behind Kobe 😏

Well there you have it. I was thinking how long will take for Tony to bring it up while reading the OP. Well it was quicker than I expected.

Shammyguy3
08-10-2016, 02:58 PM
Prolly the most overrated player I grew up watching and then became properly rated by most. Top-8 is as far as Im willing to go.

How is he the most overrated player you grew up watching?

alexander_37
08-13-2016, 09:30 PM
Eh, Kobe should be everyone's #1. :D

I think Olajuwon is underrated. Career-wise he's borderline top 10 IMO, but talent-wise, I think The Dream is top 5, maybe top 3 all-time.

Edit: Dream is top 3 in talent. He had zero weaknesses. Zero. Post-game. Check. Jump shooting. Check. Stealing, shot-blocking, defending, athleticism, passing, rebounding paint-scoring, great fundamentals, best footwork of any big-man in NBA history, etc... he was not only good at all these things, but GREAT.

His 3-point shooting wasn't good but it would be bogus to include that.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind that.

JasonJohnHorn
08-13-2016, 09:59 PM
I've been watching basketball since around 87/88, though I admit I didn't really have a grasp until around 90/91 as I was quit young.

But that said, I have never seen a player who impacted the game on both ends as much as Hakeem. The Rockets made the right pick in 84. Perhaps they could have won with Jordan, but Samson going down with injury would have put that team back too far and I think Jordan would have forced a trade to a bigger market.

Jordan is the other guy who I would say had the biggest impact both ways among all of those I saw, and Duncan and Garnett would likely follow.

Hakeem is certainly in my top ten, and if we aren't counting rings, he'd likely be in my top five.


Some knock him saying he didn't age well, and I might have done that in the past myself. However, when you look at the numbers he put up at age 36, they are better than what most centers in their prime today would put up on a good day.

I'm not saying he is better than Jordan. I think there is a case. But in terms of impact, the rebounding and defensive anchor, no guard, no matter how good, could carry that kind of impact. It is part of the problem when you are comparing positions. But that said, Jordan's defense could shut down an entire wing on the court with his help defense and how quick he was getting back to his man. Hakeem, though, could shut down an entire offense with his presence in the paint.



You put Hakeem in the 60s/70s with Wilt, and he's putting up numbers that are likely as impressive.


If he's not in your top-ten, then you either are young and haven't had a chance to see him, or you simply do not understand the game.

Chronz
08-15-2016, 06:38 PM
How is he the most overrated player you grew up watching?

Cuz I got tired of people forgetting how raw he was coming in. When people talk about Dream, they talk about a 2-way monster that never existed beyond a year or so, which is no different than say Wilt/Shaq/KAJ etc... Dream was at his defensive apex for like the first 8 years of his career, he had cat like quickness and natural agility/coordination honed from his Soccer days. Thing is, back then his vision was poor and his go-to moves were limited and not overly effective (historically speaking). By the time he mastered the art of passing and became the kind of guy who could carry offenses onto himself, his defense had slipped.

If you let the fanboys tell the tale, Dream was always both an elite offensive and defensive player but in reality, his offense was an A/B or B/A level player on both ends, at his absolute best, I have Dream up there with almost anyone but that wasn't his entire career. Zones really perplexed him early in his career and its entirely due to his lack of spatial awareness.

Chronz
08-15-2016, 06:46 PM
You put Hakeem in the 60s/70s with Wilt, and he's putting up numbers that are likely as impressive.

Doubtful, the guy just wasn't the athlete. I always found it interesting that a guy like KAJ (who played against both) had his worst playoff series against the older guard(well center but you know what I mean). Hakeem with the help of Sampson were able to defeat an old KAJ in the playoffs but the old man was dropping buckets on them. Had he been at his physical apex, I could totally see him owning the twin towers to a higher degree. Compared to how he struggled vs the late great Nate Thurmond (a 70's player he credits as being the toughest to score against) or an old/injured Wilt who in several series just about neutralized KAJ, once so emphatically that KAJ's own coach admitted to timidness and the hometown fans gave Wilt a round of applause. Theres an even greater case to be made that if you put Wilt in Hakeems shoes, he puts up even better numbers.

JasonJohnHorn
08-17-2016, 04:14 PM
Doubtful, the guy just wasn't the athlete. I always found it interesting that a guy like KAJ (who played against both) had his worst playoff series against the older guard(well center but you know what I mean). Hakeem with the help of Sampson were able to defeat an old KAJ in the playoffs but the old man was dropping buckets on them. Had he been at his physical apex, I could totally see him owning the twin towers to a higher degree. Compared to how he struggled vs the late great Nate Thurmond (a 70's player he credits as being the toughest to score against) or an old/injured Wilt who in several series just about neutralized KAJ, once so emphatically that KAJ's own coach admitted to timidness and the hometown fans gave Wilt a round of applause. Theres an even greater case to be made that if you put Wilt in Hakeems shoes, he puts up even better numbers.


Doubtful, the guy just wasn't the athlete. I always found it interesting that a guy like KAJ (who played against both) had his worst playoff series against the older guard(well center but you know what I mean). Hakeem with the help of Sampson were able to defeat an old KAJ in the playoffs but the old man was dropping buckets on them. Had he been at his physical apex, I could totally see him owning the twin towers to a higher degree. Compared to how he struggled vs the late great Nate Thurmond (a 70's player he credits as being the toughest to score against) or an old/injured Wilt who in several series just about neutralized KAJ, once so emphatically that KAJ's own coach admitted to timidness and the hometown fans gave Wilt a round of applause. Theres an even greater case to be made that if you put Wilt in Hakeems shoes, he puts up even better numbers.

Good points. I think Kareem's hook shot and range caused them to struggle. I'd have to see footage of the series. That was about a year or two before I started watching in earnest.

As to when his offense really came into its own, I seem to remember him tearing it up on O + D in 89, and keeping that up straight through to 96. The Rockets teams weren't always great every year, but he was stellar.

The 86 series against the Lakers... he was only in his second year then, no? Getting beat by a vet like KAJ on certain plays seems like it would be expected. And Hakeem averaged more points on a higher percentage that series. And Kareem's FG% that series was significantly lower than his season average, even if he did score more points.


I started watching in 87/88, but didn't really know what I was seeing at first. By 89/90, I had a good grasp on the game and I remember Hakeem tearing it up. Even if his moves weren't as varied, he was still an efficient scorer early on (53%, 52%, 50% and 51% his first four years), and his passing was more about the system he was in. His third year in, he was getting about 3 a game with a 1-1 A-to-T ratio, which isn't far off from the about 3.5 ast to 3.2ish trn he was posting between 93-96. He showed early on what he could do; what plays the coach ran were up to the coach. It's like K-Love and Greg Monroe: both those guys can get double digits in assists on good nights and can get 4 a game on a regular basis, but if the coach isn't running plays through them, they won't get them. In 2013, Monroe was getting 3.5 ast to 2.9 trn, but the next year the coach was letting Jennings and Smith turn the ball over instead of running plays in the post. Monroe could still do that, the coach just didn't let him. Love has a similar situation. He was dishing out 4.5 a game with 2.5 trn his last season in Minnny and hasn't done half that in Cleveland because the coach does call on him to. He still can. Hakeem proved early he could pass, they just moved the ball through other players.

I think you are right: his defensive peak was 89-93, and his offensive peak was really 93-96, so he had a sweet spot for a couple of seasons, but he was stellar on both ends from his rookie season to 34, and after that he was still playing better until the age of 38 than most C's in this league right now.

I thought you'd have a hard on for Hakeem as big as mine. Interesting. You are making me second guess myself here.

b-ballistic
08-19-2016, 12:13 AM
There is only one true fact in terms of player rankings........Michael Jordan is number 1! Everything else is pure speculation.

Personally, Olajuwon is my #1 center. But again, it is only an opinion and subject for debate. But there's no debating who the GOAT is.

europagnpilgrim
08-19-2016, 01:18 AM
I've been watching basketball since around 87/88, though I admit I didn't really have a grasp until around 90/91 as I was quit young.

But that said, I have never seen a player who impacted the game on both ends as much as Hakeem. The Rockets made the right pick in 84. Perhaps they could have won with Jordan, but Samson going down with injury would have put that team back too far and I think Jordan would have forced a trade to a bigger market.

Jordan is the other guy who I would say had the biggest impact both ways among all of those I saw, and Duncan and Garnett would likely follow.

Hakeem is certainly in my top ten, and if we aren't counting rings, he'd likely be in my top five.


Some knock him saying he didn't age well, and I might have done that in the past myself. However, when you look at the numbers he put up at age 36, they are better than what most centers in their prime today would put up on a good day.

I'm not saying he is better than Jordan. I think there is a case. But in terms of impact, the rebounding and defensive anchor, no guard, no matter how good, could carry that kind of impact. It is part of the problem when you are comparing positions. But that said, Jordan's defense could shut down an entire wing on the court with his help defense and how quick he was getting back to his man. Hakeem, though, could shut down an entire offense with his presence in the paint.



You put Hakeem in the 60s/70s with Wilt, and he's putting up numbers that are likely as impressive.


If he's not in your top-ten, then you either are young and haven't had a chance to see him, or you simply do not understand the game.

Early Dream was too raw on offense to dominate at Dipper level but he would no doubt have been a defensive enforcer/nice rebounder way back in the 60/70's era, the thing with Big Dipper was that he was one of a kind back then so he would have been a major force since he had all the tools on offense/defense at the highest max level in todays era or in between

Dipper had the fadeaway bank shot(most today think Duncan invented that) and finger roll/etc... he out finessed the so called smaller guys who use to guard him, he beat them at they own style game while being a freak of nature/best athlete ever which would translate to today at same or higher level, he held back the power game in fear of breaking peoples wrist/arms since he had unreal innate strength to go along with natural type, and he displayed it by dunking a ball so hard it broke a players toe(Red Kerr) and he dislocated Gus J. shoulder from blocking his shot(like who does that?)

like the announcers use to say back then, if you pissed him off school was out and he would go for 60-100pts whenever however

Dream wouldn't have been able to do that back then at Dipper level, not even close but good try

Dipper averaged a triple double for his entire career had blocks been kept track, let that sink in for long moments at a time, no single player could ever be as dominant on a solo act ever, led the league in total assists one year and was a multiple rebound/scoring/shot blocking champ(along with Russell)

swap Dipper and Dream and I feel Dream's team get swept by Russell all 8 times, or 1 game they win each series max if lucky

if he is not in the top 10 best ever it has nothing to do with being too young that's for sure, it has more to do with having so many dominant players to choose from and he could be in some people top 10 and not for others, but at least he is in the convo

Supreme LA
08-19-2016, 12:28 PM
I already had him ahead of Tim Duncan.

Chronz
08-19-2016, 01:11 PM
Good points. I think Kareem's hook shot and range caused them to struggle. I'd have to see footage of the series. That was about a year or two before I started watching in earnest.

Nothing stopping us from watching it now, might be fun to do a touches count on that series. You might be right about the skyhook just killing them. From what I remember seeing a few years ago when I revisited this debate, it was mostly Ralph Sampson on him with Hakeem trying his damnest to time every sky hook off the weakside(unlike Wilt who would stuff him to his face). That said, hes not just gonna rely on his skyhook alone, that is, unless hes facing an old Wilt and getting intimidated in the paint. And the Lakers were a small team outside of Wilt so its not like he had the help of another elite helpside defender either.


As to when his offense really came into its own, I seem to remember him tearing it up on O + D in 89, and keeping that up straight through to 96. The Rockets teams weren't always great every year, but he was stellar.

Agreed but there was a time when the prevailing thought, at least from the Rockets FO perspective, was that Dream was selfish and disloyal(IIRC, his coach even suggested he was a weak 1v1 defender, as ludicrous as that sounds to me). It didn't help that when he went down with an injury (that the FO thought he was faking) the Rockets kept winning at a rate on par with him.

Much of the dispute was BS because they always underrated him, but it got so bad that either Dream demanded to be traded or his team just began shopping him. Whatever the cause, the Heat said no to trading Glen Rice for Hakeem, who would ironically enough get traded for an inferior Center in Alonzo. If Pat Riley was running Miami in the 90's, you think he says no to Hakeem?



The 86 series against the Lakers... he was only in his second year then, no? Getting beat by a vet like KAJ on certain plays seems like it would be expected. And Hakeem averaged more points on a higher percentage that series. And Kareem's FG% that series was significantly lower than his season average, even if he did score more points.

KAJ was the oldest player in the league and had completely lost the quickness that allowed him to dominate the boards, dude was outrebounded by like 4 players that series, including both teams PG's. Dream was FAR closer to his best days than KAJ was.
Also, Im not trying to argue that Kareem outplayed Hakeem, just that those contextual factors are doubled in the peak KAJ vs Wilt battles. In other words, I was more impressed with what an old Wilt did in his 2 series vs a damn near PEAK KAJ than what Hakeem+Ralph did to an old Kareem that could no longer rebound with the best of them. Thats not even close to the player KAJ was in the 70's. KAJ in the 70's would never let so many players out-rebound him , hell pretty much only Wilt could consistently outboard him back then. And that rebounding would have opened up his scoring as well.



I started watching in 87/88, but didn't really know what I was seeing at first. By 89/90, I had a good grasp on the game and I remember Hakeem tearing it up. Even if his moves weren't as varied, he was still an efficient scorer early on (53%, 52%, 50% and 51% his first four years),
I never said he wasn't an efficient scorer, you have to keep in mind the competition we're comparing him to. Its all relative, and in the historical sense, simply just being an efficient scorer just isn't going to cut it, especially when you're not responsible for carrying much of the offense in a playmaking/finishing capacity. Like any great should be efficient if hes feasting on offensive rebounds while being on the receiving end of outlet feeds.


and his passing was more about the system he was in.
The system was mostly predicated on his abilities and he simply wasn't the passer he would later become. Put it this way, when the Rockets lose their PG for the playoffs but have an older/smarter Hakeem, instead of forcing McCray into running the offense almost exclusively, I think they rely on Hakeem to up his playmaking. But this was a Hakeem who was rattled by traps and faux zones. In fact, when Hakeem first came into the NBA he was so happy to finally not have to worry about College zones.


His third year in, he was getting about 3 a game with a 1-1 A-to-T ratio, which isn't far off from the about 3.5 ast to 3.2ish trn he was posting between 93-96.
Maintaining the same ratios whilst carrying a far lower burden with your playmaking is sad.


He showed early on what he could do; what plays the coach ran were up to the coach. It's like K-Love and Greg Monroe: both those guys can get double digits in assists on good nights and can get 4 a game on a regular basis, but if the coach isn't running plays through them, they won't get them. In 2013, Monroe was getting 3.5 ast to 2.9 trn, but the next year the coach was letting Jennings and Smith turn the ball over instead of running plays in the post. Monroe could still do that, the coach just didn't let him. Love has a similar situation. He was dishing out 4.5 a game with 2.5 trn his last season in Minnny and hasn't done half that in Cleveland because the coach does call on him to. He still can. Hakeem proved early he could pass, they just moved the ball through other players.

Not seeing why you think he proved anything, your comparison doesn't hold water because they were giving him the ball, he just didn't command that attention and when he did, he was clearly incapable of making quick reads ala Shaq/KAJ have always been. Yes I get that your role matters, but thats why we look at the entire picture. Look at a guy like KAJ, he had his highest scoring seasons when he didn't have to worry about creating for others as much, he was more of a finisher and thus had his highest scoring seasons, when Big O retired his assists went up but his scoring declined abit because he had to do more of the playmaking, this trend held up when Magic joined him as he again saw an increase in scoring efficiency and a decline in assists. Thats kind of the tradeoff between being a facilitator vs more of a finisher. Hakeem NEVER proved the ability to do both at a level on par with truly historic offensive players until MUCH later in his career. You can find examples of players going any which way, what I care about is the general trends we've seen and with that in mind, Hakeem falls well short of the elite standard.

I think the reason for this was because Shaq had to be doubled from basically day 1 at LSU and they kept on swarming him the longer he stayed, he really had a crash course on drawing attention that a raw Hakeem never commanded at first. He was more of a beast on the offensive glass who could just beat players at his position down the court in transition. It wasn't until the latter part of his career that he became a killer in the halfcourt on par with historic offensive players.



I think you are right: his defensive peak was 89-93, and his offensive peak was really 93-96, so he had a sweet spot for a couple of seasons, but he was stellar on both ends from his rookie season to 34, and after that he was still playing better until the age of 38 than most C's in this league right now.

I thought you'd have a hard on for Hakeem as big as mine. Interesting. You are making me second guess myself here.


Being overrated doesn't mean Im not high on Hakeem, just dont think he was the 2-way monster throughout his entire career the way many assume. Like some have this foolish notion that he was an A+ level offensive player and an A+ level defensive player when that wasn't the case.

At his peak, I have him as the greatest defender of all-time and at his apex I actually hold him in higher regard than Kareem, but that wasn't his entire career.

Its always hard to grade defense so finding a true peak is no exact science but I would agree he remained at the least, a B Level on either end throughout his prime, he never had any truly horrendous defensive seasons or playoffs like I think Wilt/Shaq have had.

Chronz
08-19-2016, 01:25 PM
And dude are you sure about those numbers, I just looked them up and for Hakeems first 5 years he averaged a paltry 2 assist for 3 turnovers. I know the numbers dont tell the whole story but the argument only gets worse IMO when we disregard the numbers. His passing+Scoring numbers only get mildly impressive after age 30 or so.

smith&wesson
08-19-2016, 02:07 PM
Its funny I have like 4 C's in my top ten - Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq ... fast forward to today and the C position is almost irrelevant.

AntiG
08-19-2016, 02:22 PM
Eh, Kobe should be everyone's #1. :D

I think Olajuwon is underrated. Career-wise he's borderline top 10 IMO, but talent-wise, I think The Dream is top 5, maybe top 3 all-time.

Edit: Dream is top 3 in talent. He had zero weaknesses. Zero. Post-game. Check. Jump shooting. Check. Stealing, shot-blocking, defending, athleticism, passing, rebounding paint-scoring, great fundamentals, best footwork of any big-man in NBA history, etc... he was not only good at all these things, but GREAT.

His 3-point shooting wasn't good but it would be bogus to include that.

It was pretty good for a center that rarely ever shot 3s.

Olajuwon's only weakness was that he played during the time of Jordan (so he didn't get as much hype) and that he wasn't as selfish as he could have been as an offensive player.

Best center I've ever watched, along with Shaq.

FlashBolt
08-19-2016, 04:12 PM
Its funny I have like 4 C's in my top ten - Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq ... fast forward to today and the C position is almost irrelevant.

That's by design. Centers are just underused and restricted to rebounding/defense moreso than ever.

Chronz
08-19-2016, 04:26 PM
Its funny I have like 4 C's in my top ten - Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq ... fast forward to today and the C position is almost irrelevant.

Its abit sad but thats the evolution of the game and its athletes. I hope we get another Shaq some day, someone talented enough to dominate despite the rules geared against him.

Hawkeye15
08-19-2016, 04:56 PM
Its funny I have like 4 C's in my top ten - Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq ... fast forward to today and the C position is almost irrelevant.

different game. Plus, you could add Duncan to that list.

JasonJohnHorn
08-21-2016, 06:14 PM
Its funny I have like 4 C's in my top ten - Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq ... fast forward to today and the C position is almost irrelevant.

C have more of a statistical impact.


They are the anchor of the defense, so they are often the most important player on that end of the court.
They also usually lead their team in rebounding.
They also lead their team in blocks.
Also, when you get smart C's like D-Rob ad Hakeem, they can convert their blocks into steals, and end up in the top-ten in steals.
They also usually have the highest FG%, and back in the day, were often a primary offensive option.


So, other than assists, they are usually among their team's leaders in blocks, rebounding, and FG% and often steals. And the REALLY good ones who get 3-5 assists, just look amazing.


Look at a SG who is an AMAZING shot blocker for his position? Usually still not good enough for third on his team. Scores lots and gets some steals, but even a great rebounding is still usually only 3rd or 4th on his team in rebounding. And the guards who get lots of assists seldom score over 30, and those who score over 30 seldom get a lot of assists (The Big O, Jordan, and Iverson are obvious exceptions). And because they take less efficient shots, their FG% is usually lower.


When you look at stats to evaluate players, it is easy to come to the conclusion that the C are the 'best' players, when it might be more accurate to say they are the most impactful players.

But I'm the same way. I mean, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Hakeem, Shaq, and D-Rob.... anybody who has those guys in their top ten have a legit argument. And if you consider Duncan a C, then that makes it 6.

lol, please
08-21-2016, 07:58 PM
There is only one true fact in terms of player rankings........Michael Jordan is number 1! Everything else is pure speculation.

Personally, Olajuwon is my #1 center. But again, it is only an opinion and subject for debate. But there's no debating who the GOAT is.
:clap:

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

mike_noodles
08-21-2016, 08:13 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the best basketball players of all time. He was dominant offensively and defensively. He is the NBA career leader in blocks. People still talk about his patented “Dream Shake,” and for years NBA big men have turned to Olajuwon to try and hone their post moves. This is all impressive but what is perhaps even more impressive is that one time while filming a commercial Olajuwon ate 100 Chicken McNuggets.

Olajuwon was filming a McDonald’s commercial wherein the premise required him to slam dunk Chicken McNuggets into his mouth. For unknown reasons, it took a while to get the commercial exactly right, leading to a taping that took five hours and over 100 takes. Most people would dunk the McNugget into their mouth and then spit it out. Not Olajuwon, who ate every single McNugget he popped into his mouth.


Eventually, a producer asked The Dream if he would prefer if they replaced the McNuggets with something inedible, to keep Olajuwon’s intake down. He declined, saying, “I like these things. Let’s keep doing it.” This is the magic of Hakeem Olajuwon. In addition to being a legendary basketball player, he was a remorseless McNugget eating machine. The only disappointment is that we don’t know just how many McNuggets Olajuwon could eat. Maybe he could have been some sort of McNugget version of Joey Chestnut. Oh well. At least he has his basketball resume to fall back on.

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/hakeem-olajuwon-at-over-100-chicken-mcnuggets/

Lol. You won me over.

flea
08-21-2016, 08:48 PM
Edit: Dream is top 3 in talent. He had zero weaknesses. Zero. Post-game. Check. Jump shooting. Check. Stealing, shot-blocking, defending, athleticism, passing, rebounding paint-scoring, great fundamentals, best footwork of any big-man in NBA history, etc... he was not only good at all these things, but GREAT.

His 3-point shooting wasn't good but it would be bogus to include that.

Eh well let me preface what I'm going to say with a few things. First, I think Hakeem was definitely the best center of the 90s which is a huge accomplishment by itself. Second, and I've said it before here and don't wish to re-argue, but I don't think MJ has any kind of easy stranglehold on GOAT like many do - and of the people who I think have arguments against him, Hakeem is one. That said, I do think MJ is the GOAT.

However, I do want to point out a weakness of Dream's and it's rebounding. Is he a very good rebounder? Sure - but compared to his HOF peers as big men he comes up short.

Here are a bunch of big men ranked from best to worst in DRB% for their age 24-32 playoff averages:

Duncan: 27.2%
Ewing: 25.5%
Barkley: 25.4%
Dirk: 25.2%
Kareem: 24.9%
K. Malone: 24.5%
Shaq: 24.3%
Robinson: 24.2%
M. Malone: 23.6%
Hakeem: 23.4%

Sample size for all of them was at least 70 games except Barkley (69) and Robinson (62).

24% seems kind of like the cutoff for elite DRB% performance. Hakeem did that only 5 times and never in a playoff run that lasted more than a single series. For reference, Ewing was only below 24% DRB twice in his career in the playoffs - and that's with the giant frontcourts he headed up.

Now, Hakeem fared slightly better with regard to ORB% but Robinson, Duncan, Shaq, Barkley, M. Malone, and Kareem outpace him there too so it's not like he was cleaning it up there either. Compared to elite bigs he is a below average rebounder and peaked there early. Not particularly surprising given his athletic style and smaller frame.