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View Full Version : What does the Cavs team need to look like in order to beat GSW next season?



IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 02:51 PM
With the moves GSW have made, it does't look like the rest of the league has much of a chance without some series changes. I don't think a team without Lebron can beat them.

What kind of changes would the Cavs have to make to beat them?

Hypothetically of course...

PG Kyrie
SG JR
SF Lebron
PF Blake
C Cousins

If the Cavs were able to move Love, and Tristan and some pieces to acquire Blake and Cousins, would this team beat GSW.

What moves can Cleveland make to get it done. What do they need to do to get it done, realistically or unrealistically.

Are there any other teams that have the means or the pieces to acquire the talent and fit it would take to beat GSW?

FlashBolt
08-07-2016, 03:21 PM
Trade Tristan? Lmao, that is stupid. Tristan's game 100% works better with LeBron than Blake. He's a beast on the boards and defensively, is better than Blake. The only piece they need to work on is Love. I don't even think they need J.R. Smith if he's going to cost them that much.

da ThRONe
08-07-2016, 03:26 PM
Trade Tristan? Lmao, that is stupid. Tristan's game 100% works better with LeBron than Blake. He's a beast on the boards and defensively, is better than Blake. The only piece they need to work on is Love. I don't even think they need J.R. Smith if he's going to cost them that much.

Well there's no way Cleveland turns Thompson into Griffin any ways. If the Clippers ever agreed to anything around those two the Cavs make that trade before they hang up the phone. You take the top end talent and worry about fit later.

JAZZNC
08-07-2016, 03:31 PM
They just need to keep doing what they are doing. Everybody is saying the same thing that they were last year "Warriors are unbeatable" and they still lost. They still have the best player on the planet (by a long shot) and Kyrie will be better so that gives you a definite chance. They dont need Cousins or Blake. They have the right players to compliment Lebron and Kyrie in addition to a full year under Lue. They are the reigning champs, no need to panic before the season even starts.

IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 05:42 PM
Trade Tristan? Lmao, that is stupid. Tristan's game 100% works better with LeBron than Blake. He's a beast on the boards and defensively, is better than Blake. The only piece they need to work on is Love. I don't even think they need J.R. Smith if he's going to cost them that much.

I'm not so sure about that. I think Blake and Lebron would be so versatile. I don't see the rebounding between Tristan and Blake that big if Blake was able to concentrate more on it.

Then secondly offensively Blake would be throwing Lebron Alley-oops amongst a variety of other offensive gains from acquiring Lebron. Both get offensively more efficient playing with each other.

IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 05:49 PM
Well there's no way Cleveland turns Thompson into Griffin any ways. If the Clippers ever agreed to anything around those two the Cavs make that trade before they hang up the phone. You take the top end talent and worry about fit later.

In this particular scenario, I 100% agree with all of this.

IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 06:20 PM
They just need to keep doing what they are doing. Everybody is saying the same thing that they were last year "Warriors are unbeatable" and they still lost. They still have the best player on the planet (by a long shot) and Kyrie will be better so that gives you a definite chance. They dont need Cousins or Blake. They have the right players to compliment Lebron and Kyrie in addition to a full year under Lue. They are the reigning champs, no need to panic before the season even starts.

I'm not so sure about this either. If Drayomnd doesn't get suspened and if Bogut doesn't get injured, I don't like the Cav's chances to win that series. But it did happen, and Lebron just played on a one of a kind level, Kyrie was probably the second best player in the series performance wise, and Curry didn't play his best.

Now I am fine banking on Lebron playing at unseen levels. I actually feel that we can bank on the finals Kyrie to be at least that next year as long as he doesn't get hurt(which is my greatest concern with Kyrie). I don't want to bank on Draymond screwing it up again, not going to bank on Curry playing bad, I'm not going to bank on injuries to key players on GSW. If one of those things did't happen during that last finals, GSW wins. Not to mention they just added Durant.

The Cavs IMHO need to do something, and I think Lebron believes this as well. I don't see the Cavs beating GS as currently constructed. As good as Lebron was in those finals, he's been better in other series and lost. Its all about the collective effort of each team, and I don't think the Cavs will have enough after Kyrie and Lebron to beat a team with that much talent on it. I've seen too much talent overwhelm not enough help, while Bron puts up 36/13/9 for the series.

Vee-Rex
08-07-2016, 06:25 PM
Acquiring both Blake and Cousins would be impossible.

Even a trade for Cousins would be extremely difficult. Here's a dream 3-team trade scenario for me:

Kings send out: DeMarcus Cousins, Darren Collison, Rudy Gay
Kings receive: Kevin Love, Jrue Holiday, Iman Shumpert, Jordan Mcrae, Cavs 2019 2nd rnd pick, cash considerations

Pelicans send out: Jrue Holiday
Pelicans receive: Rudy Gay, Mo Williams, Cavs 2020 2nd round pick

Cavs send out: Kevin Love, Iman Shumpert, Jordan McRae, Mo Williams, 2019 2nd round pick, 2020 2nd round pick, cash considerations
Cavs receive: DeMarcus Cousins, Darren Collison


PG: Irving/Collison/Felder
SG: Smith/Dunleavy
SF: James/Jefferson/Jones
PF: Thompson/Frye
C: Cousins/Birdman

Now THAT team could possibly beat the Warriors. We'd have to fill out 3 more roster spots with free agents.

IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 07:51 PM
Acquiring both Blake and Cousins would be impossible.

Even a trade for Cousins would be extremely difficult. Here's a dream 3-team trade scenario for me:

Kings send out: DeMarcus Cousins, Darren Collison, Rudy Gay
Kings receive: Kevin Love, Jrue Holiday, Iman Shumpert, Jordan Mcrae, Cavs 2019 2nd rnd pick, cash considerations

Pelicans send out: Jrue Holiday
Pelicans receive: Rudy Gay, Mo Williams, Cavs 2020 2nd round pick

Cavs send out: Kevin Love, Iman Shumpert, Jordan McRae, Mo Williams, 2019 2nd round pick, 2020 2nd round pick, cash considerations
Cavs receive: DeMarcus Cousins, Darren Collison


PG: Irving/Collison/Felder
SG: Smith/Dunleavy
SF: James/Jefferson/Jones
PF: Thompson/Frye
C: Cousins/Birman

Now THAT team could possibly beat the Warriors. We'd have to fill out 3 more roster spots with free agents.

What about Triston, Dunleavy, Collison for Blake at that point?

kkruiser86
08-07-2016, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=IKnowHoops;31111908]I'm not so sure about this either. If Drayomnd doesn't get suspened and if Bogut doesn't get injured, I don't like the Cav's chances to win that series. But it did happen, and Lebron just played on a one of a kind level, Kyrie was probably the second best player in the series performance wise, and Curry didn't play his best.

Blah blah blah. If Kyrie and Kevin Love played in the finals two years ago, the Cavs would be back to back champs. People forget that the Warriors had to sign someone to beat the Cavs.

Clint Olbrock
08-07-2016, 09:17 PM
Why are you penciling the GSW into the finals already? The Warriors lost 6 rotational pieces... They're not some well oiled machine. The only thing about them that has played together is Klay, Steph and Dray... Everything else has to be worked out and figured out.

When you have Klay saying he isn't going to sacrifice... Like dude you are easily the 3rd or 4th best player on this team, sit down and shut up so you can TRY to get another ring. You can't just have all these dudes chucking up shots with no one wanted to do the dirty work(Tristan Thompson for the Cavs).

The Warriors getting KD is going to blow up in their face just like getting Nash and Dwight blew up in the Lakers face. There is 1 basketball, and when you have these little ego manics not wanting to share it people get pissed off because they know they are much better than "King Klay".

I'm not penciling the GSW into the finals and neither should you, or anyone else for that matter.

IKnowHoops
08-07-2016, 09:57 PM
Why are you penciling the GSW into the finals already? The Warriors lost 6 rotational pieces... They're not some well oiled machine. The only thing about them that has played together is Klay, Steph and Dray... Everything else has to be worked out and figured out.

When you have Klay saying he isn't going to sacrifice... Like dude you are easily the 3rd or 4th best player on this team, sit down and shut up so you can TRY to get another ring. You can't just have all these dudes chucking up shots with no one wanted to do the dirty work(Tristan Thompson for the Cavs).

The Warriors getting KD is going to blow up in their face just like getting Nash and Dwight blew up in the Lakers face. There is 1 basketball, and when you have these little ego manics not wanting to share it people get pissed off because they know they are much better than "King Klay".

I'm not penciling the GSW into the finals and neither should you, or anyone else for that matter.

Your forgetting Iggy and Shaun Livingston who were there two main contributors off the bench. They lost Barbosa, Barnes and Bogut of the people the actually mattered to there success, and they gained Kevin Durant, West, Zaza. They will mis Bogut but the rest will not matter at all. Barbosa maybe you'll miss him 4-5 times per year for about 8 minutes a game. But there gains outweigh what they miss. Its a net positive transaction easily. If Zaza can equal Bogut on defense then they will have lost nothing and gained a crap ton offensively. I am penciling them in buddy. Barring injury its going to be them and Cleveland again.

Clint Olbrock
08-07-2016, 10:52 PM
Your forgetting Iggy and Shaun Livingston who were there two main contributors off the bench. They lost Barbosa, Barnes and Bogut of the people the actually mattered to there success, and they gained Kevin Durant, West, Zaza. They will mis Bogut but the rest will not matter at all. Barbosa maybe you'll miss him 4-5 times per year for about 8 minutes a game. But there gains outweigh what they miss. Its a net positive transaction easily. If Zaza can equal Bogut on defense then they will have lost nothing and gained a crap ton offensively. I am penciling them in buddy. Barring injury its going to be them and Cleveland again.

I'm not, I don't think you should either. If no one is willing to sacrifice as the bone heads have already said they won't, it isn't going to work. They gained West, so what? He doesn't fit at all, unless he is playing the 5. 1 of Livingston or Iggy will get cut out of the equation all together.

Their "death lineup" can't even function the same because KD and Curry both suck at defense.

On paper, sure they're great. Probably even in a video game. They aren't going to be basement dwellers but to think they lost 6 rotational pieces and got back 1 ISO player. The fit sucks, they haven't even played 1 game together and the idiots are already fighting over touches.

Bunch of selfish egotistical players, they aren't titled to nothing.

If you want to crown em, then crown em. They are who we thought they were.

McAllen Tx
08-07-2016, 11:15 PM
IMO I believe the Cavs need to add depth to their team. I think its too late for them to try and trade Love along with other players to get Cousins and fill the roster with whatever is left in free agency. Not much left out there.

I think they should trade Love and get 2-3 good players to add depth to their team. LBJ makes good players around him better or average players good. I think Love is still best suited to be a 2nd option. But who knows for how much longer. Best to move him soon, his skills are decreasing and his salary is increasing.

Just an example - Love to Sac for Gay & Koufas or something along those lines. To Boston for Johnson, Crowder & Young.

Just my opinion.

Vee-Rex
08-07-2016, 11:40 PM
What about Triston, Dunleavy, Collison for Blake at that point?

Why not Kay Felder for Blake straight up?

More seriously, you gotta have the assets to give a team to get a player of Griffin/Cousins caliber in return. Generally those kind of stars demand a boatload of good draft picks (something the Cavs don't have) along with young, high-ceiling/all-star potential talent (something the Cavs don't have).

The only reason there are even rumors about Cousins to the Cavs is because it would involve an all-star talent in Kevin Love, otherwise the Kings are hanging up the phone every time (I'm hearing they're pretty much doing that right now at this point). So if by some miracle they did accept a deal for Cousins involving Love, we don't have nowhere near the assets to also acquire Blake Griffin.

Why trade Blake Griffin for a one-way player in Thompson, a 35-year old oft-injured player in Dunleavy, and a quasi-backup point guard in Collison when Doc could certainly flip Blake for some great draft picks and young, promising talent. If the Clips trade Blake they'll be looking to rebuild, not re-tool.

I love speculating but I highly doubt any kind of trade involving Love is gonna happen. The Cavs seem content with staying put with our championship roster, and I can't really blame them much for it.

Dade County
08-07-2016, 11:47 PM
Are there any other teams that have the means or the pieces to acquire the talent and fit it would take to beat GSW?

A team like this...

Wedtbrook
CJ McCollum
Lbj
Ad
Whiteside

I just dont no what team out there can assemble them all together lol

Jeffy25
08-08-2016, 01:09 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I think Blake and Lebron would be so versatile. I don't see the rebounding between Tristan and Blake that big if Blake was able to concentrate more on it.

Then secondly offensively Blake would be throwing Lebron Alley-oops amongst a variety of other offensive gains from acquiring Lebron. Both get offensively more efficient playing with each other.

I don't think Blake is a good fit

Cousins?

Now that would be nice for LeBron

1. Kyrie
2. Smith
3. LeBron
4. Thompson
5. Cousins

That's a mean lineup that would def stack up with GSW considering defense

mrblisterdundee
08-08-2016, 01:35 AM
They need to turn Kevin Love into another player who fits better, such as combo forward, combo wing or center.
1. Try to sell Sacramento on Kevin Love for Rudy Gay, Kosta Koufos and Ben McLeMore. Love fits well next to DeMarcus Cousins, in case Sacramento's still crazy enough to think they can keep him. They could trade some of those young big men for wing and guard support. Meanwhile, the Cavaliers get Gay, who can score decently and play both forward positions next to and backing up LeBron James; Koufos, an improvement over Timofey Mozgov; and McLemore, a one-year project with unrealized potential.
2. Sell Minnesota on Love for Nikola Pekovic, Gorgui Dieng and Zach LaVine. Minnesota gets back a star and a marquee scorer in Love, who fits nicely next to Karl-Anthony Towns. With Ricky Rubio and Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine is more expendable. He can provide a nice athletic punch for the Cavaliers playing both guard positions. Dieng's an underrated big man unliely to get minutes in Minnesota. Pekovic makes the contracts work and can still be a passable starting center.

Tony_Starks
08-08-2016, 10:07 AM
They just need to keep doing what they are doing. Everybody is saying the same thing that they were last year "Warriors are unbeatable" and they still lost. They still have the best player on the planet (by a long shot) and Kyrie will be better so that gives you a definite chance. They dont need Cousins or Blake. They have the right players to compliment Lebron and Kyrie in addition to a full year under Lue. They are the reigning champs, no need to panic before the season even starts.


This

SteBO
08-08-2016, 12:47 PM
Cavs need very little....I might be biased here since I'm a Miami fan, but I like the Chris Andersen addition for them as another energy guy behind Tristan Thompson. They also got another shooter (Dunleavy), so I'd say they're in good shape as long as they stick to their identity, even better if they can get JR at a reasonable price.

SteBO
08-08-2016, 12:49 PM
^This is all assuming LBJ and Kyrie are steady in their production of course. With LBJ, you always have a shot.

FlashBolt
08-08-2016, 02:58 PM
Spurs are getting underrated here. With Tim Duncan gone, I think the Cavs are better prepared to beat them if Spurs make it to the Finals. Spurs can beat the Warriors by exposing their lack of size. Pau Gasol+LaMarcus is a huge frontcourt. Kyrie is the exact type of player who can make Spurs pay for their coverage on LeBron. Also, I think OKC is getting underrated here, too. Our frontcourt along with a top backcourt can easily make a challenging game. Oladipo is a huge improvement from Waiters and Roberson has looked very good this past season.

Chronz
08-08-2016, 03:38 PM
Well at least you've learned that you need a floor spacing bigman to compensate for a non-shooting frontcourt. Blake and Bron aren't ideal, there would be less lobs than you think.

FlashBolt
08-08-2016, 04:34 PM
Well at least you've learned that you need a floor spacing bigman to compensate for a non-shooting frontcourt. Blake and Bron aren't ideal, there would be less lobs than you think.

Blake's other abilities more than make up for Love's shooting advantage. His ability to run the floor with LeBron has value as well. His ability to go up for lobs is also valuable. I'm not saying Blake is the perfect fit but I do think he offers more to the Cavs than Love does presently.

8kobe24
08-08-2016, 06:32 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. GSW lost their bench, they have no depth.

IKnowHoops
08-11-2016, 02:40 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. GSW lost their bench, they have no depth.

When you could of just as easily lost the series and actually should of and would have if big events didn't cripple the other team...you have to know you have to improve your team to be good enough to win it all next year.

If they don't make a trade now, they will definitely be making a big trade during the season.

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2016, 05:48 AM
Lets not crown the GSW champs yet.

While I think Durant and Curry have the makeup to sacrifice some of there opportunities and stats, until guys play together you don't know what will happen.

Adding an offensive player to the Warriors doesn't automatically make them better, it might hinder everyone (probably won't, but until we see them all play together we don't know).

The Cavs might be fine as is, if Irving takes the next step, Lebron stays healthy, Love is willing to play from the bench, and Tristan Thompson takes the next step they may be fine....The Cavs may need to be the team that gets Ray Allen if he comes back but again they just won the title and if Lebron and Irving do what they do and there is any sort of chemistry problem with GSW the Cavs probably repeat if they are healthy

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2016, 05:50 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. GSW lost their bench, they have no depth.

This is a great point and one that I didn't think of (and is one I usually make in talking about championship teams)

Tony_Starks
08-11-2016, 09:44 AM
The remark about their depth is legit. Casual fans are just going to look at the Big names and pencil GS in but their bench is what made them run roughshod over teams in the regular season. When you're 10 deep and can just plug guys in there's no drop off.

May seem like no biggie since they have the stars but just look at the difference no Bogut and a gimpy Iggy made down the stretch in the Finals.

Tony_Starks
08-11-2016, 09:46 AM
On the Cavs side of things they are the Champs, teams have to figure out how to dethrone them.

With Kyrie and Love doing more of the heavy lifting during the season letting Bron reserve his legs a bit they are going to be a problem.

ManRam
08-11-2016, 09:51 AM
They don't need Blake and Cousins...they also probably couldn't nab one of them, let alone both. Plus, I don't think that's the formula at all.

Did you watch the Finals, either? Tristan was invaluable against the Warriors. He was a terror on the glass and especially defensively. Not sure there's another big like him that can defend those shooters like he can. He was amazing. No reason to shake stuff up that drastically.

What they need is to stay healthy as is and they need GSW to not stay healthy. Like others have mentioned, that team has weak depth...an injury to any of those starters would be really tough. Kevin Love finding his groove more consistently obviously would help too. That's the only way I could imagine liking their odds again. That's mainly because GSW on paper is the best team ever...but I don't think that means Cleveland has to go crazy.

FlashBolt
08-11-2016, 11:41 AM
If they do keep Love, I'm thinking they are going to have a huge system change in how they play. I just don't see how you can keep having him there when he's not producing results against the better teams. Trading him is ideal but what this proves is that the best recipe to win when you have a player of LeBron's capability is to get the best low usage dirty work players such as Tristan and how Rodman was for Jordan and a 2nd option you can rely on to score willingly (Kyrie).

Vee-Rex
08-11-2016, 11:42 AM
If I could swing Cousins for cheap I'd do that, but obviously that won't happen.

I think the Cavs can afford to be patient and then evaluate things at the trade deadline.

Tony_Starks
08-11-2016, 12:02 PM
If they do keep Love, I'm thinking they are going to have a huge system change in how they play. I just don't see how you can keep having him there when he's not producing results against the better teams. Trading him is ideal but what this proves is that the best recipe to win when you have a player of LeBron's capability is to get the best low usage dirty work players such as Tristan and how Rodman was for Jordan and a 2nd option you can rely on to score willingly (Kyrie).

That kindof depends on what your definition of producing results is. For example Loves overall Finals was underwhelming but game 7 he went to work on the glass and also had a huge defensive stop on the switch to Curry at the end.

If he is going to continue to put up very respectable numbers throughout the reg season, and show up when it matters in the post season, I think Cleveland will be very comfortable living with his deficiencies.

Plus keep in mind he'll have the advantage of coming into this season healthy with Lue for a entire season as opposed to Blatt who had no idea how to use him.

IKnowHoops
08-11-2016, 01:18 PM
That kindof depends on what your definition of producing results is. For example Loves overall Finals was underwhelming but game 7 he went to work on the glass and also had a huge defensive stop on the switch to Curry at the end.

If he is going to continue to put up very respectable numbers throughout the reg season, and show up when it matters in the post season, I think Cleveland will be very comfortable living with his deficiencies.

Plus keep in mind he'll have the advantage of coming into this season healthy with Lue for a entire season as opposed to Blatt who had no idea how to use him.

Its amazing how different K-Loves narrative would be if Dray doesn't get suspended and Bogut doesn't get hurt.

Tony_Starks
08-11-2016, 01:29 PM
Its amazing how different K-Loves narrative would be if Dray doesn't get suspended and Bogut doesn't get hurt.

A Cavs fan would respond it's amazing how different things would've been if Kyrie and Love weren't injured the first Finals.

That's part of the game, we can play the what if game with almost any Finals....

You beat the team in front of you.

SfgiantsJD3
08-11-2016, 03:06 PM
I think the question is did GSW do enough to be able to beat the Cavs, we know they were lucky in 2015 and weren't good enough in 2016 so they needed to improve their team to be able to beat the Cavs if they want to be champions. Until at least next June the Cavs are the defending champs and the team to beat.

uprightciti
08-11-2016, 03:12 PM
I really don't think that Love for Cousins does them any favors. Cousins has zero playoff experience and being a "marquee" player he has never once got the Kings close to the playoffs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JordansBulls
08-11-2016, 03:19 PM
I think the question is did GSW do enough to be able to beat the Cavs, we know they were lucky in 2015 and weren't good enough in 2016 so they needed to improve their team to be able to beat the Cavs if they want to be champions. Until at least next June the Cavs are the defending champs and the team to beat.
Cavs won in 2016 due to suspension in game 5 and then Iggy was hurt the rest and Bogut out in games 6 and 7

mngopher35
08-11-2016, 03:27 PM
They don't need Blake and Cousins...they also probably couldn't nab one of them, let alone both. Plus, I don't think that's the formula at all.

Did you watch the Finals, either? Tristan was invaluable against the Warriors. He was a terror on the glass and especially defensively. Not sure there's another big like him that can defend those shooters like he can. He was amazing. No reason to shake stuff up that drastically.

What they need is to stay healthy as is and they need GSW to not stay healthy. Like others have mentioned, that team has weak depth...an injury to any of those starters would be really tough. Kevin Love finding his groove more consistently obviously would help too. That's the only way I could imagine liking their odds again. That's mainly because GSW on paper is the best team ever...but I don't think that means Cleveland has to go crazy.

I have seen a lot of people say the bold line, I wonder if most people see it that way or not? It's crazy how loaded they are either way but I have seen a ton of people say best team ever on paper which intrigues me. Definitely possible having 2 top 3, a third top 10, and overall 4 top 15 players with FMVP Iggy off the bench, Zaza/Livingston/West as well to round things out.

I kind of agree with you that they don't need to go crazy but imo trading Love could upgrade the roster even without receiving an individual as talented as him. Given how good GS is I think planning to play them for championships is logical and Love could be a problem via matchups with their roster so to me he should be available in trades at the very least.

hugepatsfan
08-11-2016, 04:09 PM
Last year:

1) Lebron had the series of his life.

2) Irving balled the **** out.

3) Curry was terrible.

4) Draymond got suspended.

5) Bogut got hurt.

And despite that CLE fell down 3-1 and juuuuuuust squeaked out a game 7 win. So they were barely good enough to win last year with all that. A lot of that they can't count on again. And now GS is better with Durant and all losses effectively replaced. So it will be one of the all time upsets if CLE repeats, even though they're the clear #2. That's how good GS is.

FlashBolt
08-11-2016, 04:34 PM
Last year:

1) Lebron had the series of his life.

2) Irving balled the **** out.

3) Curry was terrible.

4) Draymond got suspended.

5) Bogut got hurt.

And despite that CLE fell down 3-1 and juuuuuuust squeaked out a game 7 win. So they were barely good enough to win last year with all that. A lot of that they can't count on again. And now GS is better with Durant and all losses effectively replaced. So it will be one of the all time upsets if CLE repeats, even though they're the clear #2. That's how good GS is.

This is my point exactly. It took LeBron leading the entire statistical category, Irving playing like the best PG, Steph Curry playing like Seth Curry, Draymond missing one game (though Cavs would have won anyways with how Irving+LeBron played IMO), Bogut getting injured, and Iguodala also getting hurt. Cavs outperformed while GSW underperformed. Odds of that happening aren't in the Cavs favor especially with KD coming into this equation. One team's odds increased while the others decreased.


A Cavs fan would respond it's amazing how different things would've been if Kyrie and Love weren't injured the first Finals.

That's part of the game, we can play the what if game with almost any Finals....

You beat the team in front of you.

I'm not play any what-if games and I'm pretty sure IKNOWHOOPS isn't either. But it's foolish to ignore that Love was rather ineffective against the Warriors. Even in the other series against Detroit/Hawks/Toronto, he wasn't exactly outperforming by his own standards. Yes they won... but that's the past. Will they win NOW?


That kindof depends on what your definition of producing results is. For example Loves overall Finals was underwhelming but game 7 he went to work on the glass and also had a huge defensive stop on the switch to Curry at the end.

If he is going to continue to put up very respectable numbers throughout the reg season, and show up when it matters in the post season, I think Cleveland will be very comfortable living with his deficiencies.

Plus keep in mind he'll have the advantage of coming into this season healthy with Lue for a entire season as opposed to Blatt who had no idea how to use him.

Seriously? One game doesn't make up for an entire series.. let alone the regular season struggles as soon as Kyrie came back and also, partially the playoffs. I think what's more important is to realize that Kevin Love just doesn't fit with this team. He can't play the way he did at Minnesota (1st option player) with LeBron and Kyrie on his team. Are they good enough to beat the East again? Probably. But no, not against the Warriors. Cavs winning the ring this season was not the bet everyone had going.

Clint Olbrock
08-11-2016, 05:53 PM
Cavs won in 2016 due to suspension in game 5 and then Iggy was hurt the rest and Bogut out in games 6 and 7

Warriors won in 2015 due to Love missing the whole series, Kyrie only playing game 1, Delly being hospitalized, Andy missing the whole series, Shump getting hurt half way through the series.

Trash, excuses are like buttholes.. Everybody has one.

The Cavs are the defending champions.

GSW lost 6, count em, 6 rotation players. Of the 9 guys returning 4 of them seen little to no time in big moments. 2 of the 6 new guys are rookies.

They got KD, awesome. Klay is struggling in the Olympics just like he did the past 2 NBA finals, you can count on that. Draymond is a bonehead on and off the court, you can count on that. Steph is fragile mentally and physically, you can count on that. KD isn't some Tristan Thompson iron man when it comes to health.

They're already fighting over touches before they have even played as a unit together, bunch of egotistical babies.

You and anyone else can crown em if you want, but on paper and video games don't count for crap in June.

Vee-Rex
08-11-2016, 06:10 PM
Warriors won in 2015 due to Love missing the whole series, Kyrie only playing game 1, Delly being hospitalized, Andy missing the whole series, Shump getting hurt half way through the series.

Trash, excuses are like buttholes.. Everybody has one.

The Cavs are the defending champions.

GSW lost 6, count em, 6 rotation players. Of the 9 guys returning 4 of them seen little to no time in big moments. 2 of the 6 new guys are rookies.

They got KD, awesome. Klay is struggling in the Olympics just like he did the past 2 NBA finals, you can count on that. Draymond is a bonehead on and off the court, you can count on that. Steph is fragile mentally and physically, you can count on that. KD isn't some Tristan Thompson iron man when it comes to health.

They're already fighting over touches before they have even played as a unit together, bunch of egotistical babies.

You and anyone else can crown em if you want, but on paper and video games don't count for crap in June.

:clap::clap::clap:

IKnowHoops
08-11-2016, 06:12 PM
Last year:

1) Lebron had the series of his life.

2) Irving balled the **** out.

3) Curry was terrible.

4) Draymond got suspended.

5) Bogut got hurt.

And despite that CLE fell down 3-1 and juuuuuuust squeaked out a game 7 win. So they were barely good enough to win last year with all that. A lot of that they can't count on again. And now GS is better with Durant and all losses effectively replaced. So it will be one of the all time upsets if CLE repeats, even though they're the clear #2. That's how good GS is.

I agree with everything you're saying. But to be fair, Lebron has had plenty of series like this. Just always looks better when you get the help to win.

IKnowHoops
08-11-2016, 06:19 PM
Warriors won in 2015 due to Love missing the whole series, Kyrie only playing game 1, Delly being hospitalized, Andy missing the whole series, Shump getting hurt half way through the series.

Trash, excuses are like buttholes.. Everybody has one.

The Cavs are the defending champions.

GSW lost 6, count em, 6 rotation players. Of the 9 guys returning 4 of them seen little to no time in big moments. 2 of the 6 new guys are rookies.

They got KD, awesome. Klay is struggling in the Olympics just like he did the past 2 NBA finals, you can count on that. Draymond is a bonehead on and off the court, you can count on that. Steph is fragile mentally and physically, you can count on that. KD isn't some Tristan Thompson iron man when it comes to health.

They're already fighting over touches before they have even played as a unit together, bunch of egotistical babies.

You and anyone else can crown em if you want, but on paper and video games don't count for crap in June.

Yo, I 100% agree with what you are saying. I just don't think the Cavs should pat themselves on the back to much. They should keep it real with themselves on how and why they one, and use it to better the team for next year.

You won't find a bigger Bron fan than me, and as happy as I am that he won the ring, it didnt change my mind about how great he is. He is always putting up games/series like he did in the finals. ALWAYS. He just had some help by another great player this time and his team won. Kyrie is a savage!!

For me Bron is GOAT, but I want him to keep winning to shut the haters up, and the only thing that does that is rings, no matter how GOAT his games are. He's averaged 30/10/7 many times in the playoffs. If they would of lost he would be getting shat on right now. Dumb but that's the way it works.

A lot went there way to win this ring, I don't want them to count on that and just sit around.

SfgiantsJD3
08-11-2016, 06:58 PM
Cavs won in 2016 due to suspension in game 5 and then Iggy was hurt the rest and Bogut out in games 6 and 7

No telling what would have happened, lots of ifs didn't happen, if the Cavs played as well in game 1 or 2 or 4 as well as they did in 7 they could have won in 5 or 6. Point is they are the defending champions and the Warriors needed to improve for next year and on paper they did.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-11-2016, 08:06 PM
I highly doubt Cavs have anything to land a Cousins trade. Warriors loaded up this year with KD and Zaza and AV. No way Cavs beat that this year.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-11-2016, 08:12 PM
Warriors won in 2015 due to Love missing the whole series, Kyrie only playing game 1, Delly being hospitalized, Andy missing the whole series, Shump getting hurt half way through the series.

Trash, excuses are like buttholes.. Everybody has one.

The Cavs are the defending champions.

GSW lost 6, count em, 6 rotation players. Of the 9 guys returning 4 of them seen little to no time in big moments. 2 of the 6 new guys are rookies.

They got KD, awesome. Klay is struggling in the Olympics just like he did the past 2 NBA finals, you can count on that. Draymond is a bonehead on and off the court, you can count on that. Steph is fragile mentally and physically, you can count on that. KD isn't some Tristan Thompson iron man when it comes to health.

They're already fighting over touches before they have even played as a unit together, bunch of egotistical babies.

You and anyone else can crown em if you want, but on paper and video games don't count for crap in June.

Staying healthy, Warriors are a lock now. LeBron is a year older with more miles on him. He cant carry the load for ever. KD on the Warriors trumps Cavs easily. Probably worst finals rematch ever if same teams.

FlashBolt
08-11-2016, 10:38 PM
I agree with everything you're saying. But to be fair, Lebron has had plenty of series like this. Just always looks better when you get the help to win.

Not against this team and certainly never led in ALL categories. That's some historic level ****. Like think about that.. I just played basketball today and led in only reboundings and steals. This man led in reboundings, steals, points, blocks, and assists.. WTF?

Yanks All Day
08-11-2016, 10:41 PM
I highly doubt Cavs have anything to land a Cousins trade. Warriors loaded up this year with KD and Zaza and AV. No way Cavs beat that this year.

Cats can't land Cousins. But the Warriors certainly did load up with KD. Zaza and AV? Not as much. The Warriors went from a deep team to an all-time great starting 5 with questionable depth. An injury to Steph or KD could derail this season. Health is Golden State's biggest threat.

But the Cavs can still beat them. Make no mistake, it's possible. But GSW is clearly the favorite going in.

Clint Olbrock
08-12-2016, 10:05 AM
Staying healthy, Warriors are a lock now. LeBron is a year older with more miles on him. He cant carry the load for ever. KD on the Warriors trumps Cavs easily. Probably worst finals rematch ever if same teams.

Nah, they're really not. Warriors strengths were ball movement and depth, they lost both of those by getting KD.

Klay is unwilling to sacrifice yet in the Olympics and past 2 finals shrinks. Dray is best with the ball in his hands, KD takes that away. KD loves iso ball. KD clashed with Wes personality wise, him and Dray are gonna go at it.

The Warriors will crash and burn, if for no other reason than Mr. Potatoe Head is now their associate head coach, dude is a clown.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-12-2016, 10:17 AM
I was trying to come up with a 3 way where Cavs get Cousins but most likely these reports are false and made up. But to play the trade machine Cavs send a couple first to Kings. That's if Cavs have any first to trade? Love to Celtics. Then Celtics send Bradley and Brown and pieces to Kings. But even then Kings still say no. Also I'm sure Celtics wanna keep the guard trio together so hard to say they part with Bradley either. Also seems Celtics rather have Noel now. Also Noel took the Philly skyline picture and other stuff down from twitter now. Could be nothing but then said he loves his home town Boston. So who knows.

Ty Fast
08-12-2016, 11:18 AM
If they could some how flip tristan and love for boogie i would do that

hugepatsfan
08-12-2016, 11:21 AM
I agree with everything you're saying. But to be fair, Lebron has had plenty of series like this. Just always looks better when you get the help to win.

I don't think Lebron has eve rhad a series like that. Not that he isn't PHENOMENAL pretty much always but that was just his absolute best series. He averaged 30/11/9 in a 7 game series. My ****ing God that's amazing. You can expect him to be his usual great self but that level is probably something he won't be able to quite match again. There will be a drop off, to some degree. Still great but you just can't expect him to match/top his ALL TIME best performance.

MonroeFAN
08-12-2016, 11:28 AM
I'm really glad I don't visit this forum anymore.

Tristan Thompson is straight up better than Blake Griffin. No one cares about fancy dunks and spin moves when the end result is being a star not good enough to win anything.

Also, last I checked, Cleveland is the team to beat. I doubt GSW even makes the finals again, Bogut was one of their best players.

MonroeFAN
08-12-2016, 11:30 AM
If they could some how flip tristan and love for boogie i would do that

Brilliant, trade two working pieces for a loser.

Tony_Starks
08-12-2016, 12:14 PM
Remember the good old days when you're the reigning champion and you get the respect of people saying how were teams going to beat YOU?

Instead of playing fantasy basketball and crowning people champs on paper....

cmellofan15
08-12-2016, 01:03 PM
LMAO you are delusional if you think this Cavs team is built to beat Golden State as is. I'm not a Warriors fan by ANY stretch of the imagination but they have the two reigning MVP's, the best PF in the game, and Klay Thompson. Kevin Durant is light years ahead of Harrison Barnes, Iggy would start on most NBA teams, Shaun Livingston is a great PG off the bench, and they still have other serviceable players off the bench. but you guys are worried about the chemistry? hahahaha yeah, tell that to the guy who just won coach of the year, and could have won it the year before.

Vee-Rex
08-12-2016, 01:06 PM
Remember the good old days when you're the reigning champion and you get the respect of people saying how were teams going to beat YOU?

Instead of playing fantasy basketball and crowning people champs on paper....

We've already been on this rodeo before (last year). You'd think people would learn. And it's not even the GS fans doing it this time.

IKnowHoops
08-12-2016, 01:08 PM
Not against this team and certainly never led in ALL categories. That's some historic level ****. Like think about that.. I just played basketball today and led in only reboundings and steals. This man led in reboundings, steals, points, blocks, and assists.. WTF?

Remember when he lost to Orlando in like 09. He was even more of a monster statistically.

Vee-Rex
08-12-2016, 01:13 PM
Remember when he lost to Orlando in 5 games in like 04 or 05. He was even more of a monster statistically.

Are you sure you're a LeBron fan?

:laugh2:

Tony_Starks
08-12-2016, 01:20 PM
We've already been on this rodeo before (last year). You'd think people would learn. And it's not even the GS fans doing it this time.

IMO it goes kindof hand in hand with the stat sheet era of fans. As in some fans are more apt to look at the names, the stats of those players in a vacuum, and just plug it in for a automatic championship.

What that doesn't take into consideration is not only the chemistry of the new team but the familiarity and confidence of the champions. When you give a entire core that was good enough to win it all another year of playing together under their belt that is a pretty big deal. In particular when its core hasn't even maxed its value.

They've already figured it out, it's everybody else's job to catch up.

IKnowHoops
08-12-2016, 01:38 PM
I don't think Lebron has eve rhad a series like that. Not that he isn't PHENOMENAL pretty much always but that was just his absolute best series. He averaged 30/11/9 in a 7 game series. My ****ing God that's amazing. You can expect him to be his usual great self but that level is probably something he won't be able to quite match again. There will be a drop off, to some degree. Still great but you just can't expect him to match/top his ALL TIME best performance.

Last year 36/13/9
Against Orlando in 09 39/8/8
Det 09 32/11/8
ATL 09 34/8/6
WAS 06 37/8/6
CHI 10 32/9/8

Thats me just briefly looking at 3-4 years. Your gonna find this kind of series pretty much every year, or every other series.

IKnowHoops
08-12-2016, 01:39 PM
Are you sure you're a LeBron fan?

:laugh2:

lol, i know, all mixed up, changed it

hugepatsfan
08-12-2016, 01:49 PM
Last year 36/13/9
Against Orlando in 09 39/8/8
Det 09 32/11/8
ATL 09 34/8/6
WAS 06 37/8/6
CHI 10 32/9/8

Thats me just briefly looking at 3-4 years. Your gonna find this kind of series pretty much every year, or every other series.

Did he do that down 3-1 in the Finals against a team that set the all time reg. season record for wins? Did he lead his team in blocks those series? The stats are great but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that he played as great in those series as he did in this one. He was obviously great but I don't think there is even the slightest of hesitation to say "this year" if asked his best series. You're ****ing nuts if you think any of those performances are even worth considering for that answer, as great as they are. If Lebron plays like those series again this year it's obviously amazing but it will be a drop off from this past year, even if not overwhelmingly. And that will be a factor going against CLE pulling the upset again - this time an even bigger one.

hugepatsfan
08-12-2016, 01:53 PM
IMO it goes kindof hand in hand with the stat sheet era of fans. As in some fans are more apt to look at the names, the stats of those players in a vacuum, and just plug it in for a automatic championship.

What that doesn't take into consideration is not only the chemistry of the new team but the familiarity and confidence of the champions. When you give a entire core that was good enough to win it all another year of playing together under their belt that is a pretty big deal. In particular when its core hasn't even maxed its value.

They've already figured it out, it's everybody else's job to catch up.

It goes hand in hand with basketball being a star league like it's always been. LAL got Magic - they won. BOS got Bird - they won. CHI got MJ and they insteantly became great (though their were other all time greats in their way to ultimately break through).

GS got upset in the Finals - barely. It happens. Now they added a top 3 player in the game. They swapped out some role players for different ones. You're out of your ****ing mind if you pick anyone but them to win. An upset can happen but you're just trying to be edgy if you pick another team to win. Maybe an upset happens (hopefully) but it will be just that an upset. No sane person is predicting anything other than a GS cruise to a title. It's that simple really.

cmellofan15
08-12-2016, 01:54 PM
IMO it goes kindof hand in hand with the stat sheet era of fans. As in some fans are more apt to look at the names, the stats of those players in a vacuum, and just plug it in for a automatic championship.

What that doesn't take into consideration is not only the chemistry of the new team but the familiarity and confidence of the champions. When you give a entire core that was good enough to win it all another year of playing together under their belt that is a pretty big deal. In particular when its core hasn't even maxed its value.

They've already figured it out, it's everybody else's job to catch up.

you don't have to look at the stat sheet to know that a team consisting of Curry, Durant, Draymond and Klay should be favorites to win the finals. people complaining about depth and chemistry are hilarious. a team with ****ing JR smith in the starting lineup and a bench consisting of Richard Jefferson, Matthew Dellavedova, Channing Frye, and Iman Shumpert just won a title..and you think the Warriors will have chemistry and depth problems? LMAO get real

hugepatsfan
08-12-2016, 02:19 PM
you don't have to look at the stat sheet to know that a team consisting of Curry, Durant, Draymond and Klay should be favorites to win the finals. people complaining about depth and chemistry are hilarious. a team with ****ing JR smith in the starting lineup and a bench consisting of Richard Jefferson, Matthew Dellavedova, Channing Frye, and Iman Shumpert just won a title..and you think the Warriors will have chemistry and depth problems? LMAO get real

haha well said

Tony_Starks
08-12-2016, 02:31 PM
Same stuff I heard last season "it's GS or the Spurs, nobody else stands a chance!" blah blah blah.

That's why we play the games gentlemen.

If you choose to crown the Warriors in the preseason be my guest.

lol, please
08-12-2016, 03:28 PM
With the moves GSW have made, it does't look like the rest of the league has much of a chance without some series changes. I don't think a team without Lebron can beat them.

What kind of changes would the Cavs have to make to beat them?

Hypothetically of course...

PG Kyrie
SG JR
SF Lebron
PF Blake
C Cousins

If the Cavs were able to move Love, and Tristan and some pieces to acquire Blake and Cousins, would this team beat GSW.

What moves can Cleveland make to get it done. What do they need to do to get it done, realistically or unrealistically.

Are there any other teams that have the means or the pieces to acquire the talent and fit it would take to beat GSW?

A team needs Lebron to beat the Warriors? ok....unsurprising position from you.

I don't think getting Cousins is realistic at all, nor is Blake, despite the rumors.

I think off the bat teams like the Knicks, Celtics, and Spurs would do as well if not better than the Cavs as they stand now against the Warriors.

You and everyone else will point to last years finals as "evidence" of something and I will maintain my position that a 7 game series is an outlier, and Lebron carrying a team to a win is an exception not the rule.

lol, please
08-12-2016, 03:29 PM
IMO it goes kindof hand in hand with the stat sheet era of fans. As in some fans are more apt to look at the names, the stats of those players in a vacuum, and just plug it in for a automatic championship.

What that doesn't take into consideration is not only the chemistry of the new team but the familiarity and confidence of the champions. When you give a entire core that was good enough to win it all another year of playing together under their belt that is a pretty big deal. In particular when its core hasn't even maxed its value.

They've already figured it out, it's everybody else's job to catch up.


It goes hand in hand with basketball being a star league like it's always been. LAL got Magic - they won. BOS got Bird - they won. CHI got MJ and they insteantly became great (though their were other all time greats in their way to ultimately break through).

GS got upset in the Finals - barely. It happens. Now they added a top 3 player in the game. They swapped out some role players for different ones. You're out of your ****ing mind if you pick anyone but them to win. An upset can happen but you're just trying to be edgy if you pick another team to win. Maybe an upset happens (hopefully) but it will be just that an upset. No sane person is predicting anything other than a GS cruise to a title. It's that simple really.

Pretty much. Well said x2.

Vee-Rex
08-12-2016, 05:42 PM
I think off the bat teams like the Knicks, Celtics, and Spurs would do as well if not better than

You forgot about Toronto and Chicago. Cavs will probably finish 5th best in the East after those teams.

IKnowHoops
08-12-2016, 06:07 PM
Did he do that down 3-1 in the Finals against a team that set the all time reg. season record for wins? Did he lead his team in blocks those series? The stats are great but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that he played as great in those series as he did in this one. He was obviously great but I don't think there is even the slightest of hesitation to say "this year" if asked his best series. You're ****ing nuts if you think any of those performances are even worth considering for that answer, as great as they are. If Lebron plays like those series again this year it's obviously amazing but it will be a drop off from this past year, even if not overwhelmingly. And that will be a factor going against CLE pulling the upset again - this time an even bigger one.

To me his best series is the loss to Orlando, 39/8/8.

The reason he lead the team back was because he had guys picking up the slack. He had Kyrie balling! He plays like that all the time. The difference was the help. He has definitely played better in other series...its the outcome of this one that makes this performance better, and not what he was actually doing on the court. He is not in his prime anymore even though he is still a crazy force, but he has absolutely played better with less help and lost.

Chronz
08-12-2016, 07:42 PM
Lets all get one thing clear, no team is really built to beat GS, thats the entire point of having the greatest collection of talent on top of an elite offensive system. Being a champion doesn't change history, particularly when your title run required so much to go right.

IKnowHoops
08-13-2016, 12:16 AM
Lets all get one thing clear, no team is really built to beat GS, thats the entire point of having the greatest collection of talent on top of an elite offensive system. Being a champion doesn't change history, particularly when your title run required so much to go right.


It always amazes me how much ignorance seems to follow championships. If a player wins he is automatically better, if a team wins, they are automatically flawless, etc. I'm not really putting my point into words correctly, but its like people just want to forget everything that went on in that finals and just say, the Cavs won, and are the best team and need not change a thing. Even Shaq admits that luck played a big part in his rings. I think everyone needs to come to grips that Cleveland got extremely lucky. Yes Bron played GOAT basketball. Yes Kyrie was an absolute savage. Just as often, those types of performances from Lebron haven't been enough to win. If GS doesn't get hurt next season, the Cavs are gonna loose if they don't make some serious changes and address the weaknesses in a matchup with GS.

I get the idea of fit with a new team, but KD is an offensive player than can score from anywhere on the court. He will work in any offense you put him in.

I get the idea that they lost some bench players from last years team, but the only bench piece they lost that actually contributed in the finals was Leandro Barbosa. Festus and Speights did very very little. All three of those guys are pretty easy to replace. Plus they brought in David West who's per 36# are 14/8/4 and a PER of 17.6 and his game is kind of in the middle of Speights and Festus. Plus with Durant, the bench won't matter as much because now you can keep 2 all stars on the floor at all times.

Zazza isn't Bogut, but all he needs to do is Hard foul Lebron when he comes down the middle. That's all they needed Bogut for. Actually looking Bogut for me hurts them the most, and I am not sure if Zazza can be as strong inside as Bogut was against the Cavs.

But with KD on the squad now, their already super potent, super efficient offense is now even more so, and focusing on shutting down Curry won't work to stifle the offense.

Bottom line, Cavs need to make some adjustments regardless of if GS got Durant or not.

tdg823
08-13-2016, 02:15 AM
Same thing that worked for them this year, a ref crew that hates steph curry...

da ThRONe
08-13-2016, 06:59 AM
It always amazes me how much ignorance seems to follow championships. If a player wins he is automatically better, if a team wins, they are automatically flawless, etc. I'm not really putting my point into words correctly, but its like people just want to forget everything that went on in that finals and just say, the Cavs won, and are the best team and need not change a thing. Even Shaq admits that luck played a big part in his rings. I think everyone needs to come to grips that Cleveland got extremely lucky. Yes Bron played GOAT basketball. Yes Kyrie was an absolute savage. Just as often, those types of performances from Lebron haven't been enough to win. If GS doesn't get hurt next season, the Cavs are gonna loose if they don't make some serious changes and address the weaknesses in a matchup with GS.

I get the idea of fit with a new team, but KD is an offensive player than can score from anywhere on the court. He will work in any offense you put him in.

I get the idea that they lost some bench players from last years team, but the only bench piece they lost that actually contributed in the finals was Leandro Barbosa. Festus and Speights did very very little. All three of those guys are pretty easy to replace. Plus they brought in David West who's per 36# are 14/8/4 and a PER of 17.6 and his game is kind of in the middle of Speights and Festus. Plus with Durant, the bench won't matter as much because now you can keep 2 all stars on the floor at all times.

Zazza isn't Bogut, but all he needs to do is Hard foul Lebron when he comes down the middle. That's all they needed Bogut for. Actually looking Bogut for me hurts them the most, and I am not sure if Zazza can be as strong inside as Bogut was against the Cavs.

But with KD on the squad now, their already super potent, super efficient offense is now even more so, and focusing on shutting down Curry won't work to stifle the offense.

Bottom line, Cavs need to make some adjustments regardless of if GS got Durant or not.

This we live in a prisoner of the moment type society. Right now the Cavs on paper are the weaker team by a decent margin. As you mention luck will play it's role as it always does, but it shouldn't be relied upon. Cavs need to improve if they rather not have to rely on luck. Hell the East has progressively gotten better.

Vee-Rex
08-13-2016, 11:12 AM
I see people talking about extreme luck, etc...

Later on today I'm gonna start a new thread and break it down for you guys. The Cavs were statistically rolling/dominating GS starting game 3 and throughout the end because of adjustments they made.

Green missing game 5 will always be viewed as fortune for my Cavs, but based on the numbers I'd say if GS had him they still would've gotten rolled. I feel that even if Bogut didn't miss time and if Iggy wasn't a little hobbled in game 6, the freight train was speeding downhill for the Warriors and they would've lost anyway. I'll provide statistics to support it.

kdspurman
08-13-2016, 11:23 AM
If all else fails, maybe Cleveland can borrow Kawhi Leonard if it comes down to those 2 teams

cmellofan15
08-13-2016, 12:45 PM
You forgot about Toronto and Chicago. Cavs will probably finish 5th best in the East after those teams.

Lmao don't forget my Nuggets :D

HOLD_THIS_L
08-13-2016, 02:23 PM
I'm really glad I don't visit this forum anymore.

Tristan Thompson is straight up better than Blake Griffin. No one cares about fancy dunks and spin moves when the end result is being a star not good enough to win anything.

Also, last I checked, Cleveland is the team to beat. I doubt GSW even makes the finals again, Bogut was one of their best players.
Bout will be missed. But the man was very injury prone. Keep hating though.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

Clint Olbrock
08-13-2016, 08:23 PM
I'm so glad basketball is played with multiple basketballs at the same time, because if it was played with just one basketball at a time the Warriors on paper love affair would be moot.

Thank god the NBA allows 3 or 4 basketballs in play at one time.

SteBO
08-14-2016, 10:45 AM
I'm so glad basketball is played with multiple basketballs at the same time, because if it was played with just one basketball at a time the Warriors on paper love affair would be moot.

Thank god the NBA allows 3 or 4 basketballs in play at one time.
I heard a bunch of this rhetoric 5-6 years ago. There's truth to it, but you aren't much better than those who point out the other side relentlessly as a means to prop up their team as the GOAT. On top of that, this isn't your average collection of stars....we'll have to wait and see. I'd be more concerned about their bench.

Clint Olbrock
08-14-2016, 11:01 AM
I heard a bunch of this rhetoric 5-6 years ago. There's truth to it, but you aren't much better than those who point out the other side relentlessly as a means to prop up their team as the GOAT. On top of that, this isn't your average collection of stars....we'll have to wait and see. I'd be more concerned about their bench.
I hear ya but I'm very familiar with the 2003-04 Lakers and the 2012-13 Lakers. Most everyone else tends to forget those examples or not care.

I recall people claiming that Nash/Kobe/Artest/Pau/D12 would break the Bulls regular season record and they fell flat on their face. Keep in mind Pau and Kobe had already won 2 titles together and were stacked.. On paper.

Everyone can give the Warriors the title now, but when the Warriors crash and burn everyone is going to be silent or change up what they said or "forget" about crowning a champ in August.

I've seen it too many times, the fit on this team isn't great or ideal. As you and I have both mentioned, their depth is nonexistent.

Chronz
08-14-2016, 12:11 PM
I hear ya but I'm very familiar with the 2003-04 Lakers and the 2012-13 Lakers. Most everyone else tends to forget those examples or not care.

I recall people claiming that Nash/Kobe/Artest/Pau/D12 would break the Bulls regular season record and they fell flat on their face. Keep in mind Pau and Kobe had already won 2 titles together and were stacked.. On paper.

Everyone can give the Warriors the title now, but when the Warriors crash and burn everyone is going to be silent or change up what they said or "forget" about crowning a champ in August.

I've seen it too many times, the fit on this team isn't great or ideal. As you and I have both mentioned, their depth is nonexistent.
Is it really a good idea to back ur 1ball "problem" by pointing out teams that struggled to due to injuries and were a group past their best days? Like Nash was over 40 wasn't he? Dwight was coming off a back surgery that would forever alter his talent. Pau and Kobe were already on the decline. Its hardly the same thing as getting a historic core in its prime together and adding arguably the best player in the game.

And I dont get what you mean by mentioning the 04 Lakers, when they were healthy, they had the best record in the league. By the time the Finals came about, "on paper", the Pistons were the more talented team. They didn't have the brand names but I always thought about paper analysis as another way of looking strictly at the talent/production and maybe the fit of the players more than their reputation.

Like those same Pistons would eventually field 4 All-Stars and they had an eventual All-Star coming off the bench for them, they did have the most dominant defense of all-time off the backs of multiple All-League defender, one of which was the most efficient 2-way PG of his generation in Billups. I made a killing off that series and its precisely because people's paper analysis didn't go beyond name recognition back then.

Its almost as if you want us to ignore the fact that when you add more talent to your team, your team is more likely to improve. I mean, the 03 Lakers lost in R.2, they ADDED 2 HOF'ers and defeated the team that they couldn't beat the year prior, they then faced the T'Wolves who also improved by adding more talent (Spree+Cassell) and beat them only to lose to the Pistons, who only became a title contender by, you guessed it, ADDING MORE TALENT (Sheed).



This is sports so literally anything CAN happen, but nobody is going to ignore how the union damages competitive balance to such an unprecedented degree. You'll NEVER find a team that wouldn't want to add an MVP caliber talent for fear of making their team worse when its FAR more likely he helps the team in more ways than 1. That speaks volumes more than the off chance they may suffer injuries, which is really all your examples were. Well that and Detroit was actually superior on paper.

Chronz
08-14-2016, 12:16 PM
I heard a bunch of this rhetoric 5-6 years ago. There's truth to it, but you aren't much better than those who point out the other side relentlessly as a means to prop up their team as the GOAT. On top of that, this isn't your average collection of stars....we'll have to wait and see. I'd be more concerned about their bench.

Yeah I mean Miami was the biggest example of stars not fitting, having a shallow team outside the Big-3 AND suffering injuries and even then they were elite. Miami lost in Y1 when they had no system in place (not a problem for GS) and in Y4 when the supporting cast finally dwindled (not a problem for a team in its prime).

The best we can hope for is someone bullying them with 2 traditional bigs who can keep pace on the perimeter (Cavs, Clips, Spurs) or karma catching up to KD, the basketball gods slaying his knees for his crimes against the god of competition.

Clint Olbrock
08-14-2016, 03:39 PM
Is it really a good idea to back ur 1ball "problem" by pointing out teams that struggled to due to injuries and were a group past their best days? Like Nash was over 40 wasn't he? Dwight was coming off a back surgery that would forever alter his talent. Pau and Kobe were already on the decline. Its hardly the same thing as getting a historic core in its prime together and adding arguably the best player in the game.

And I dont get what you mean by mentioning the 04 Lakers, when they were healthy, they had the best record in the league. By the time the Finals came about, "on paper", the Pistons were the more talented team. They didn't have the brand names but I always thought about paper analysis as another way of looking strictly at the talent/production and maybe the fit of the players more than their reputation.

Like those same Pistons would eventually field 4 All-Stars and they had an eventual All-Star coming off the bench for them, they did have the most dominant defense of all-time off the backs of multiple All-League defender, one of which was the most efficient 2-way PG of his generation in Billups. I made a killing off that series and its precisely because people's paper analysis didn't go beyond name recognition back then.

Its almost as if you want us to ignore the fact that when you add more talent to your team, your team is more likely to improve. I mean, the 03 Lakers lost in R.2, they ADDED 2 HOF'ers and defeated the team that they couldn't beat the year prior, they then faced the T'Wolves who also improved by adding more talent (Spree+Cassell) and beat them only to lose to the Pistons, who only became a title contender by, you guessed it, ADDING MORE TALENT (Sheed).



This is sports so literally anything CAN happen, but nobody is going to ignore how the union damages competitive balance to such an unprecedented degree. You'll NEVER find a team that wouldn't want to add an MVP caliber talent for fear of making their team worse when its FAR more likely he helps the team in more ways than 1. That speaks volumes more than the off chance they may suffer injuries, which is really all your examples were. Well that and Detroit was actually superior on paper.

No, Nash was 38, obviously still old. Yes, Dwight did have back surgery but that isn't the sole injury or thing that has caused him to not look like the Dwight of Magic days. Sure, Kobe and Pau were older but on the decline? Pau still puts up solid stat lines.

The Warriors didn't add LeBron so I'm not sure where you were even going with that.

Because the guys were older the concept still can't apply?

I'm pretty positive Klay has sucked the past 2 finals and isn't helping his case at all by stinking it up in the Olympics too, he is the definition of not being able to handle the big moment.

Didn't KD miss 55 games in the 2014-15 season?

Hasn't Steph had ankle injuries throughout his entire career?

Dray is still an reactionary person on and off the court.

Okay, the Warriors ADDED MORE TALENT.. We get it, the NBA isn't a video game or played on paper.

They added Durant, will that not change up their style of play or the roles or the team dynamic? Klay is going to be able to go off for 37 points in a quarter with KD on the team? He will be okay with that? He will be okay with not getting his touches? The Warriors are at their best off the Steph/Dray PnR, with Dray facilitating the offense; is that still an option? KD will be reduced to a corner 3 point shooter, is he cool with that(he only shot 28% on 3's in the 2016 playoffs, FYI)? Steph and Klay go cold and just keep chucking away, is KD cool with that? Does that jive? Dray has a big personality(similar to Wes, a guy KD always clashed with), is that okay with him? Or will he continue to be outspoken and clash with Green? Klay refuses to sacrifice for KD, is that what is best for the team? Is that how winning basketball works, by being selfish? KD is at his best going ISO, Klay, Steph and Dray are okay with that?

Mike "Mr Potatoe Head" Brown can mess up a wet dream.

The Warriors lost 6 rotation players, that has no impact at all?

The fact is, sure the Warriors added talent but because this isn't a video game and because championships aren't won on paper, just by getting KD doesn't automatically mean championship. As I've been saying, if you or whoever believe that, then cool you're allowed but it doesn't make it true.

HOLD_THIS_L
08-14-2016, 04:17 PM
Klay hitting 5 of his 7 3s in the third in the latest game in the Olympics. Yeah he's a bum.^

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

hugepatsfan
08-14-2016, 04:26 PM
It's so ridiculous to use injuries as an argument for why the favorite can be upset. Such a weak argument. Of course injuries can happen. But it's ridiculous to cite it as a reason against any certain team because they can happen to anyone. It's not even like GS has anyone who stands out as super injury risk or anything like that. Such a pointless argument. An injury would obviously change things but no one randomly decides to predict which players on which teams will get hurt. What a ridiculous way to try and pick the team you think will win lol

If you're trying to argue that a team won't win it all and you find yourself saying "well one of their stars could get hurt, you never know" then you should probably stop arguing because you clearly don't have a good one for why that team won't win. You're just grasping at straws to give yourself a reason to pick a different team that you'd rather see win. Just say it like it is - you think Team X will win but you hope not and will root for Team Y.

Clint Olbrock
08-14-2016, 04:45 PM
Klay hitting 5 of his 7 3s in the third in the latest game in the Olympics. Yeah he's a bum.^

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

31% FG 34.5% 3FG 71.4% FT, WOW this dude is a GOD.. KING KLAY, smh.

Yeah, look at one quarter instead of the entire 5 games :facepalm:

Outside of the 3rd quarter of game 5, Klay shot 5 of 22 from behind the arc... Yes, those are bum numbers.. 23%.. Wow, what a BEAST.

prodigy
08-16-2016, 04:54 AM
Warriors Look like the favs but they need to play the game together. Cavs need to stay healthy. The warriors have been blessed health wise so i think that's gonna catch up to them. (not wishing harm on anyone)

cavs gotta play defense. The Cavs will score the ball prob even better then last season. So they just gotta play defense and frustrate the Warriors. Remember there is only 1 ball. Lebron has owned Durant throughout the years.

Nobodies gonna hand the Warriors a ship.

Vee-Rex
08-16-2016, 06:25 PM
As LeBron would say...

The game is won between the four lines.

IKnowHoops
08-26-2016, 06:40 PM
All they need to do is add a...
Cauley Stein prototype
Gerald Green
Tyreke Evans
Gallinari
Josh Smith

Now I know you look at guys like Josh Smith, Gerald Green, Tyreke Evans and say they could be negatives, but I think they have JR Smith like Impacts in there area of expertise playing with Lebron.

Cavs need guys like JR, not superstars, but talents that aren't known for playing the game the right way. Lebron can always make a dumb talent a smart talent. They feed off of his b-ball IQ. And these guys are cheap.

Cauley Stein plus any two of those guys would be enough for me to go into next season confident they can properly challenge for a ring.

tredigs
08-26-2016, 07:10 PM
Warriors Look like the favs but they need to play the game together. Cavs need to stay healthy. The warriors have been blessed health wise so i think that's gonna catch up to them. (not wishing harm on anyone)

cavs gotta play defense. The Cavs will score the ball prob even better then last season. So they just gotta play defense and frustrate the Warriors. Remember there is only 1 ball. Lebron has owned Durant throughout the years.

Nobodies gonna hand the Warriors a ship.
Gonna catch up to them? The unanimous MVP went down with an MCL tear IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLAYOFFS (...and came back to compete. Never been done before in the middle of the playoffs from a teams star). He didn't look the same game to game from that point on. That, combined with an untimely suspension when it looked like the series was just a formality? Trust, it caught up to them. The Cavs have their first title to thank for it.

This is the NBA, nothing is a given, and injuries dictate titles more than anything else. However, the Warriors are in a position where they could lose an All-NBA 1st teamer and still arguably be the favorites to win the title not only based on their pure talent, but the dynamic nature of that talent. Curry/Klay/KD/Draymond, they are all very capable off the ball players, while all are still capable of bringing the ball up and initiating an offense.

Nobody should write them in as 2017 champs, but you're not going to be able to argue any other team over them. It's as sick of an amalgamation of talent as there has ever been in the NBA. Probably one we won't ever see again. The hype is warranted. I'd lay odds on them versus the field against anybody here.

FlashBolt
08-28-2016, 12:48 AM
Gonna catch up to them? The unanimous MVP went down with an MCL tear IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLAYOFFS (...and came back to compete. Never been done before in the middle of the playoffs from a teams star). He didn't look the same game to game from that point on. That, combined with an untimely suspension when it looked like the series was just a formality? Trust, it caught up to them. The Cavs have their first title to thank for it.

This is the NBA, nothing is a given, and injuries dictate titles more than anything else. However, the Warriors are in a position where they could lose an All-NBA 1st teamer and still arguably be the favorites to win the title not only based on their pure talent, but the dynamic nature of that talent. Curry/Klay/KD/Draymond, they are all very capable off the ball players, while all are still capable of bringing the ball up and initiating an offense.

Nobody should write them in as 2017 champs, but you're not going to be able to argue any other team over them. It's as sick of an amalgamation of talent as there has ever been in the NBA. Probably one we won't ever see again. The hype is warranted. I'd lay odds on them versus the field against anybody here.

Curry's MCL tear is not the reason he missed wide open threes and him not being able to get past Kevin Love. You are H-I-L-A-R-I-O-US. Such a homer that you seem to lament everyone else for being. What's your excuse for Klay? If Curry can't stay "healthy", that's his own problem but if he's playing 40 minutes per game in the playoffs, he's healthy enough.

Hopper15
08-28-2016, 05:51 AM
I think the Cavs are going to regret not matching that offer sheet on Delly. There backup PG situation looks extremely shaky right now and Kyrie isn't that durable.

Vee-Rex
08-28-2016, 10:13 AM
I think the Cavs are going to regret not matching that offer sheet on Delly. There backup PG situation looks extremely shaky right now and Kyrie isn't that durable.

I'm not worried one bit. Even with the news that Mo Williams might retire.

1. I'm a big Delly fan but I don't think we needed him to get through the Eastern Conference. His impact was good, but even without him I don't think the Raptors or any other EC team would've beaten us.

2. He was completely dropped out of the Cavs rotation in the finals against the Warriors. So we definitely didn't rely on him for those games. If we had to play teams like the Clippers or Spurs in the playoffs then I think he could be a difference-maker.

3. Rookie Kay Felder is an underrated talent. He had a great summer league and looks to be a really, really, really poor man's Kyle Lowry.

4. There's still a couple names on the market. Chalmers is rumored to be cleared for basketball activities, so we could perhaps sign him. Norris Cole is still on the market too.

da ThRONe
08-28-2016, 11:11 AM
I think the Cavs are going to regret not matching that offer sheet on Delly. There backup PG situation looks extremely shaky right now and Kyrie isn't that durable.

Cavs if anything IMO will regret keeping Love. If he's going to be out of place on defense he has to be a stud on offense and he hasn't been that with James and Irving.

FlashBolt
08-28-2016, 12:00 PM
Norris Cole would be a perfect fit with LeBron. Also think McRae will be sufficient enough if they can't get Smith back.

IKnowHoops
08-28-2016, 12:02 PM
Cavs if anything IMO will regret keeping Love. If he's going to be out of place on defense he has to be a stud on offense and he hasn't been that with James and Irving.

I wouldn't mind a trade. I like Blake but I don't know about his injuries he's got going on. I was pretty high on Cousins, but I think the most important thing the Cavs can do is just try and add some big, fast, long athletic role players. Some guys with talent but have a similar "JR-like label" attached that drives there perceived value down that can be had on the cheap and that Lebron can bring out the best in.

tredigs
08-28-2016, 02:55 PM
Curry's MCL tear is not the reason he missed wide open threes and him not being able to get past Kevin Love. You are H-I-L-A-R-I-O-US. Such a homer that you seem to lament everyone else for being. What's your excuse for Klay? If Curry can't stay "healthy", that's his own problem but if he's playing 40 minutes per game in the playoffs, he's healthy enough.

Lol he also made plentyyy of those open threes buddy. If you don't think an MCL tear mid-playoffs has an effect on a player, then we have no basis for conversation here. And frankly, there is no basis of conversation with a hard-headed dolt like yourself, so I don't know why I am even bothering with you. Even with that occurring to the leagues MVP, the Warriors still had the lead down the stretch in a Finals G7 (a game they certainly have no excuse for losing). Rest assure, at full strength that is the team to beat, and somebody saying, "wait 'til injuries catch up to them!" makes absolutely no sense given what happened last year.

FlashBolt
08-28-2016, 03:54 PM
Lol he also made plentyyy of those open threes buddy. If you don't think an MCL tear mid-playoffs has an effect on a player, then we have no basis for conversation here. And frankly, there is no basis of conversation with a hard-headed dolt like yourself, so I don't know why I am even bothering with you. Even with that occurring to the leagues MVP, the Warriors still had the lead down the stretch in a Finals G7 (a game they certainly have no excuse for losing). Rest assure, at full strength that is the team to beat, and somebody saying, "wait 'til injuries catch up to them!" makes absolutely no sense given what happened last year.

So wait, when he makes it, he's not injured but when he misses most of it, it's because he's injured? I'm pretty sure he was more than healthy enough to knock down wide open threes. And let me guess, him throwing the behind-the-back pass is due to his injury? Are you ever going to be objective and not a homer? Rest assured, they should have beaten the Cavs BADLY. They didn't because Klay was MIA and Curry was more concerned about chucking up threes than trying to get Green more involved in the 2nd half of the game. Funny how you like to shift every excuse around.. remember your "I will bet against anyone that the Warriors will win game 7?" You sure like to speak in absolute... until it doesn't happen and you fallback to your homer-positioned statements. Just terrible.

tredigs
08-28-2016, 04:10 PM
You're insufferable and just talking to yourself here Flashbolt. Do you understand a world where both A) The Warriors were not at full strength and B) They still should have won? When I'm responding to a comment from somebody who is saying, "Just wait 'til the Warriors aren't full strength!", I'd say it's fair to point out that they in fact were not at full strength. I watched them all season. Playoff Warriors - due in large part to a slowed down version of Curry - was not nearly as good as the January version. That's just a reality.

Is that withing your ability to grasp? Or am I still talking to a bitter little woah-is-OKC wall here?

FlashBolt
08-28-2016, 04:19 PM
You're insufferable and just talking to yourself here Flashbolt. Do you understand a world where both A) The Warriors were not at full strength and B) They still should have won? When I'm responding to a comment from somebody who is saying, "Just wait 'til the Warriors aren't full strength!", I'd say it's fair to point out that they in fact were not at full strength. I watched them all season. Playoff Warriors - due in large part to a slowed down version of Curry - was not nearly as good as the January version. That's just a reality.

Is that withing your ability to grasp? Or am I still talking to a bitter little woah-is-OKC wall here?

You've become a top 5 homer of this forum so it's probably you who is insufferable to others.
It was only Curry who wasn't at full strength. Every other player on their team was healthy leading up to the Finals. This was the same Curry who sat out how many fourth quarters? Injuries are part of the game so stop yapping about how unhealthy they were. You even made that bet after Cavs beat them in game 6 and proclaimed the Warriors as the NBA champions. Can you just ever admit that you're wrong? Why do you insist on having to prove something online to someone you don't know? You're wrong, just admit it. I'm sorry you live in a world where you subject others to obey you but it's really not that difficult. Playoffs Curry missed wide open threes, shots, made costly turnovers, averaged more turnovers than assists. He was more than healthy enough to make a few plays here and there and didn't. You need to just accept that Curry choked and Cavs stepped up. Not really that difficult here. Plus, you always ignore Klay Thompson. What happened to him in game 7?

tredigs
08-28-2016, 07:29 PM
Listen, you annoying little pest, I was responding to a poster who said "injuries will catch up with them" with a, "they 'will', I think they did".

As I stated, clearly they could and should have still won it all, but suffice to say no other team in NBA history has ever had their star go down for extended time mid playoffs and gone on to win a title. It would have been an unprecedented occurrence. As I said prior, there exists a reality where **** did not go there way, but they still failed to persevere. That is where I stand on their season.

Using your favorite franchises best player in history as a fill in for Barnes is a start, though.

Tony_Starks
08-29-2016, 10:38 AM
What do the Warriors have to do to beat the defending champs? Build cohesion, find a answer for Bron and Kyrie, and hope Kevin Love doesn't find his nitch.

tredigs
08-29-2016, 10:59 AM
Truly, their biggest task (other than the given "stay healthy" that goes for all teams) will be sacrificing their collective egos for the goal of winning championships. I think they have the ideal leadership (both from the coaching staff and Curry as the face of the team) to pull it off, but it's something that could come up, especially if they have a losing streak (gotta be honest I'm not sure a losing streak is possible for this roster as is, but if).


Edit: Concerning the OP, do we think the Cavs will actually attempt to move K. Love? They're not moving Kyrie.

Hawkeye15
08-29-2016, 11:05 AM
The Warriors need to not play so damn cute when it actually matters.

FlashBolt
08-29-2016, 11:24 AM
Listen, you annoying little pest, I was responding to a poster who said "injuries will catch up with them" with a, "they 'will', I think they did".

As I stated, clearly they could and should have still won it all, but suffice to say no other team in NBA history has ever had their star go down for extended time mid playoffs and gone on to win a title. It would have been an unprecedented occurrence. As I said prior, there exists a reality where **** did not go there way, but they still failed to persevere. That is where I stand on their season.

Using your favorite franchises best player in history as a fill in for Barnes is a start, though.

In other words, "Curry did not choke."

Giannis94
08-30-2016, 01:15 AM
Cavs need to acquire Giannis to play pg-c. Catch em all? More like cover em all!

More-Than-Most
08-30-2016, 02:58 AM
Listen, you annoying little pest, I was responding to a poster who said "injuries will catch up with them" with a, "they 'will', I think they did".

As I stated, clearly they could and should have still won it all, but suffice to say no other team in NBA history has ever had their star go down for extended time mid playoffs and gone on to win a title. It would have been an unprecedented occurrence. As I said prior, there exists a reality where **** did not go there way, but they still failed to persevere. That is where I stand on their season.

Using your favorite franchises best player in history as a fill in for Barnes is a start, though.

:laugh:

Literally laughed for 10 plus minutes lol... Not even sure why but holy **** I am in pain now

More-Than-Most
08-30-2016, 02:58 AM
Trade love to boston or the lakers and get Noel from the sixers... instantly their team becomes deeper and better.

FlashBolt
08-30-2016, 11:37 AM
Trade love to boston or the lakers and get Noel from the sixers... instantly their team becomes deeper and better.

Floor spacing matters. They at least need someone who is elite defensively and can dominate the paint to where you don't need floor spacing or someone who can floor space and play defense. Can't sacrifice Love for someone who isn't elite defensively and can't shoot.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 12:35 PM
Trade love to boston or the lakers and get Noel from the sixers... instantly their team becomes deeper and better.

I'm not a fan of this trade. Cavs loose to much on the offensive end, especially the 3pt shooting. Noel and a 1st would seem a little more fair.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 12:39 PM
Truly, their biggest task (other than the given "stay healthy" that goes for all teams) will be sacrificing their collective egos for the goal of winning championships. I think they have the ideal leadership (both from the coaching staff and Curry as the face of the team) to pull it off, but it's something that could come up, especially if they have a losing streak (gotta be honest I'm not sure a losing streak is possible for this roster as is, but if).


Edit: Concerning the OP, do we think the Cavs will actually attempt to move K. Love? They're not moving Kyrie.

I think they should move Love, but for a worthy piece, which is easier said than done. I'd be down with a Cousins or Blake Trade, but more and more I'd rather them keep what they have and add players like Cauley-Stein, Gerald Green, Josh Smith, Tyreke Evans, etc, players who's impact will be greater playing with Bron, and make the team deeper. If they could add 3 guys who are a little better than Richard Jefferson, to play with Bron, they would be in a lot better shape.

tredigs
08-30-2016, 02:26 PM
I think they should move Love, but for a worthy piece, which is easier said than done. I'd be down with a Cousins or Blake Trade, but more and more I'd rather them keep what they have and add players like Cauley-Stein, Gerald Green, Josh Smith, Tyreke Evans, etc, players who's impact will be greater playing with Bron, and make the team deeper. If they could add 3 guys who are a little better than Richard Jefferson, to play with Bron, they would be in a lot better shape.

I'd agree with this. Plus it's super hard to orchestrate trades for star players where you're getting a fair return. Next to impossible most of the time.

da ThRONe
08-30-2016, 02:30 PM
I think they should move Love, but for a worthy piece, which is easier said than done. I'd be down with a Cousins or Blake Trade, but more and more I'd rather them keep what they have and add players like Cauley-Stein, Gerald Green, Josh Smith, Tyreke Evans, etc, players who's impact will be greater playing with Bron, and make the team deeper. If they could add 3 guys who are a little better than Richard Jefferson, to play with Bron, they would be in a lot better shape.

Tyreke Evans is a total opposite of the type of player who should be playing with LeBron. He's a ball stopper, with low IQ, poor shooter, and weak on defense.

Tony_Starks
08-30-2016, 02:33 PM
People are saying trade Love just like they used to clamor for the Heat to trade Bosh. Totally missing the point of having a 4/5 who is a legit 3 point threat makes it virtually impossible defend Lebron/ Kyrie when they drive. Plus his ability to get the break started with the long outlet pass.

Not to mention between him and Tristain you have two of the best offensive rebounding Bigs in the game. Whatever he lacks on D you have Thompson to compensate.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2016, 02:42 PM
People are saying trade Love just like they used to clamor for the Heat to trade Bosh. Totally missing the point of having a 4/5 who is a legit 3 point threat makes it virtually impossible defend Lebron/ Kyrie when they drive. Plus his ability to get the break started with the long outlet pass.

Not to mention between him and Tristain you have two of the best offensive rebounding Bigs in the game. Whatever he lacks on D you have Thompson to compensate.

for the money Love makes, he is absolutely not producing enough for them. He needs the ball to flow through him a ton more in order to really utilize him. There are better options for sure, but the Cavs will be hard pressed to trade Love away, and make an upgrade. Just doesn't happen that often.

Love still kills them on PnR defense, and if you just stick him in the corner and never go through him, his 14 year old maturity level sulks half the season.

FlashBolt
08-30-2016, 03:23 PM
People are saying trade Love just like they used to clamor for the Heat to trade Bosh. Totally missing the point of having a 4/5 who is a legit 3 point threat makes it virtually impossible defend Lebron/ Kyrie when they drive. Plus his ability to get the break started with the long outlet pass.

Not to mention between him and Tristain you have two of the best offensive rebounding Bigs in the game. Whatever he lacks on D you have Thompson to compensate.

Why are you oblivious to what actually happened in the Finals? You know, where Love was relatively helpless outside of game 7? Cavs don't need Love to reach the NBA Finals but they do need him in the NBA Finals -- which will be against the Warriors. He doesn't match up well against them and he has issues defending.. that's not a good sign when you're going up against the Warriors. As good as LeBron and Kyrie were in the NBA Finals this season, there is ZERO chance they can replicate that same performance while hoping Warriors:

-Lose Iguodala to injuries in the final two games.
-Stephen Curry doesn't play that bad again.
-Klay doesn't play that bad again.

AAAAAAND.. Kevin Durant.

A lineup of:
Curry
Thompson
KD (PF)
Iguodala
Draymond (C)

Does not go well for the Cavs. One way to beat the Warriors decisively is by dominating the frontcourt. You can't do that with Love because he's soft and plays zero defense. When was the last time you saw him jump to deflect a shot from the paint?

You have zero reason to believe Love is a great fit for this team other than you wanting to bash LeBron if they lose in the Finals despite Love's terrible play. Cavs should trade Love if they wish to complete their back2back with a higher chance.

Vee-Rex
08-30-2016, 03:32 PM
for the money Love makes, he is absolutely not producing enough for them. He needs the ball to flow through him a ton more in order to really utilize him. There are better options for sure, but the Cavs will be hard pressed to trade Love away, and make an upgrade. Just doesn't happen that often.

Love still kills them on PnR defense, and if you just stick him in the corner and never go through him, his 14 year old maturity level sulks half the season.

I'm learning to accept Love for what he is. No, he's not performing at the level that was expected, but that doesn't mean he isn't an integral piece of our championship capabilities.

I'm not opposed to a Love trade but it better be for pieces that can contribute (and not for inconsistent bums like Josh Smith).

Weaknesses aside, let's not forget that his ability to spread the floor is important TO LeBron. The fact that he's a superb rebounder doesn't hurt either.

Vee-Rex
08-30-2016, 03:38 PM
Why are you oblivious to what actually happened in the Finals? You know, where Love was relatively helpless outside of game 7? Cavs don't need Love to reach the NBA Finals but they do need him in the NBA Finals -- which will be against the Warriors. He doesn't match up well against them and he has issues defending.. that's not a good sign when you're going up against the Warriors. As good as LeBron and Kyrie were in the NBA Finals this season, there is ZERO chance they can replicate that same performance while hoping Warriors:

-Lose Iguodala to injuries in the final two games.
-Stephen Curry doesn't play that bad again.
-Klay doesn't play that bad again.

AAAAAAND.. Kevin Durant.

A lineup of:
Curry
Thompson
KD (PF)
Iguodala
Draymond (C)

Does not go well for the Cavs. One way to beat the Warriors decisively is by dominating the frontcourt. You can't do that with Love because he's soft and plays zero defense. When was the last time you saw him jump to deflect a shot from the paint?

You have zero reason to believe Love is a great fit for this team other than you wanting to bash LeBron if they lose in the Finals despite Love's terrible play. Cavs should trade Love if they wish to complete their back2back with a higher chance.

Love is no doubt a bad matchup vs. the Warriors but that doesn't mean he has no value to us. Great fit or not he still supplies us with a unique combination of abilities/talents that is hard to find in another player (Outside threat + post game + rebounding + passing + inside scoring/drawing fouls).

He was a major reason we ripped Atlanta apart in the 2nd round which led to a sweep (btw that Kyrie/Love Pick-n-Pop obliterated them). He was a major reason we swept Detroit and helped us punish Drummond with his ability to spread the floor.

Again, I'm not opposed to trading him. I do think we can improve the team if we get the right pieces. I felt like responding because it seems like the tone of your post suggests that Love is completely worthless for us and that's not the case at all. No way are we gonna trade him just to do it.

FlashBolt
08-30-2016, 03:39 PM
I'm learning to accept Love for what he is. No, he's not performing at the level that was expected, but that doesn't mean he isn't an integral piece of our championship capabilities.

I'm not opposed to a Love trade but it better be for pieces that can contribute (and not for inconsistent bums like Josh Smith).

Weaknesses aside, let's not forget that his ability to spread the floor is important TO LeBron. The fact that he's a superb rebounder doesn't hurt either.

As every season has become, LeBron and his team are going to probably reach the Finals and that's what it will come down to. Do you think Love will be able to dominate the Warriors? I don't. And that's their problem right now. Love is not needed to make the Finals. They beat Detroit, Hawks, and Raptors with or without Love. Now the question is if they can beat the Warriors with Love again... And I have to say no, not likely. You can't pay a guy to space the floor but play zero defense. Is he a great rebounder? Sure, but not enough to warrant him as a keeper.

FlashBolt
08-30-2016, 03:41 PM
Love is no doubt a bad matchup vs. the Warriors but that doesn't mean he has no value to us. Great fit or not he still supplies us with a unique combination of abilities/talents that is hard to find in another player (Outside threat + post game + rebounding + passing + inside scoring/drawing fouls).

He was a major reason we ripped Atlanta apart in the 2nd round which led to a sweep (btw that Kyrie/Love Pick-n-Pop obliterated them). He was a major reason we swept Detroit and helped us punish Drummond with his ability to spread the floor.

Again, I'm not opposed to trading him. I do think we can improve the team if we get the right pieces. I felt like responding because it seems like the tone of your post suggests that Love is completely worthless for us and that's not the case at all. No way are we gonna trade him just to do it.

I agree with you. I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing at all. It's just painfully obvious that Love will probably have to sit out again for huge spurts of important moments in the Finals. For Christ's sake, I loved watching RJ play but you can't be Kevin Love getting benched for Richard Jefferson. Maybe Love gets more comfortable this season but if it comes down to RJ having to sub for him, Cavs are going to regret not trading him when they had the chance.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 05:39 PM
Tyreke Evans is a total opposite of the type of player who should be playing with LeBron. He's a ball stopper, with low IQ, poor shooter, and weak on defense.

AKA JR Smith before teaming with Lebron. He'd fall in line, pass to Bron and do what Bron told him to do and be pretty good given his high talent level. All the negatives go away when your with Bron if you truly are talented.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 05:43 PM
for the money Love makes, he is absolutely not producing enough for them. He needs the ball to flow through him a ton more in order to really utilize him. There are better options for sure, but the Cavs will be hard pressed to trade Love away, and make an upgrade. Just doesn't happen that often.

Love still kills them on PnR defense, and if you just stick him in the corner and never go through him, his 14 year old maturity level sulks half the season.

And this will get them beat against GS next year without the help of an injury or a player meltdown. I'd feel comfortable keeping love if they could add Cauley-Stein for matchup flexibility.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 05:45 PM
Why are you oblivious to what actually happened in the Finals? You know, where Love was relatively helpless outside of game 7? Cavs don't need Love to reach the NBA Finals but they do need him in the NBA Finals -- which will be against the Warriors. He doesn't match up well against them and he has issues defending.. that's not a good sign when you're going up against the Warriors. As good as LeBron and Kyrie were in the NBA Finals this season, there is ZERO chance they can replicate that same performance while hoping Warriors:

-Lose Iguodala to injuries in the final two games.
-Stephen Curry doesn't play that bad again.
-Klay doesn't play that bad again.

AAAAAAND.. Kevin Durant.

A lineup of:
Curry
Thompson
KD (PF)
Iguodala
Draymond (C)

Does not go well for the Cavs. One way to beat the Warriors decisively is by dominating the frontcourt. You can't do that with Love because he's soft and plays zero defense. When was the last time you saw him jump to deflect a shot from the paint?

You have zero reason to believe Love is a great fit for this team other than you wanting to bash LeBron if they lose in the Finals despite Love's terrible play. Cavs should trade Love if they wish to complete their back2back with a higher chance.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 05:48 PM
I'm learning to accept Love for what he is. No, he's not performing at the level that was expected, but that doesn't mean he isn't an integral piece of our championship capabilities.

I'm not opposed to a Love trade but it better be for pieces that can contribute (and not for inconsistent bums like Josh Smith).

Weaknesses aside, let's not forget that his ability to spread the floor is important TO LeBron. The fact that he's a superb rebounder doesn't hurt either.

I hope you don't think I was insinuating trading love for guys like Josh Smith. I was saying that I'd be fine with keeping love and adding bench help with players like Josh Smith. He'd be a great bench player and nice type of player to put on draymond and body him in the paint. He's a better athlete and he could help them with different matchups. And even though he's not great at anything, he is above average-pretty good in a lot of things.

Vee-Rex
08-30-2016, 05:56 PM
AKA JR Smith before teaming with Lebron. He'd fall in line, pass to Bron and do what Bron told him to do and be pretty good given his high talent level. All the negatives go away when your with Bron if you truly are talented.

I get your point, though I think JR Smith is a bad comparison. Sole reason is because JR is and has always been a good shooter.

I do think LeBron will help guys improve on defense big time, especially wing players. I wouldn't mind Tyreke with the Cavs if he came off the bench. I'm pretty sure he was a good defender at some point in his career and I imagine playing with Bron would bring that out of him.

Vee-Rex
08-30-2016, 05:58 PM
I hope you don't think I was insinuating trading love for guys like Josh Smith. I was saying that I'd be fine with keeping love and adding bench help with players like Josh Smith. He'd be a great bench player and nice type of player to put on draymond and body him in the paint. He's a better athlete and he could help us with different matchups

I gotcha.

I'm hoping the Dunleavy and Birdman acquisitions work out beautifully for us and help give us depth. Regardless, you can never have too much depth on a team, so I'd be open for some more additions.

IKnowHoops
08-30-2016, 06:05 PM
I gotcha.

I'm hoping the Dunleavy and Birdman acquisitions work out beautifully for us and help give us depth. Regardless, you can never have too much depth on a team, so I'd be open for some more additions.

The thing is, a lot of these guys like JR and Josh Smith and Tyreke have little desire based on loosing every day. Once they get out there with Lebron, and start winning, and get that mojo back, that fire back, that will to win back, that desire to compete on every play, that knowing they can win a ring if they play the right way, and that wanting to not dissapoint the King(LOLOLOL) there games will double and triple and we will all be happy. These guys just need a Lebron in there life.

da ThRONe
08-31-2016, 08:38 AM
AKA JR Smith before teaming with Lebron. He'd fall in line, pass to Bron and do what Bron told him to do and be pretty good given his high talent level. All the negatives go away when your with Bron if you truly are talented.

Smith could always shoot and was never the ball stopper Evans is currently. So no not like JR. In order for Tyreke to be effective he has to have the ball in his hands attacking the defense.

IKnowHoops
08-31-2016, 12:57 PM
Smith could always shoot and was never the ball stopper Evans is currently. So no not like JR. In order for Tyreke to be effective he has to have the ball in his hands attacking the defense.

JR was a ball stopper. And Tyreke is a good finisher/scorer. He'd be fine playing off Bron with his skillset, and be a good upgrade off the bench. Its not like the Cavs have a bench full of players better than Tyreke so he would be great on the Cavs bench.

da ThRONe
08-31-2016, 01:03 PM
JR was a ball stopper. And Tyreke is a good finisher/scorer. He'd be fine playing off Bron with his skillset, and be a good upgrade off the bench. Its not like the Cavs have a bench full of players better than Tyreke so he would be great on the Cavs bench.

Playing with LeBron basically negates Tyreke's greatest skill. Falling in line isn't what's best for every player. Love fell in line and his impact dropped significantly the same for Bosh. And both those guys skillset doesn't even conflict with James'.

IKnowHoops
08-31-2016, 02:09 PM
Playing with LeBron basically negates Tyreke's greatest skill. Falling in line isn't what's best for every player. Love fell in line and his impact dropped significantly the same for Bosh. And both those guys skillset doesn't even conflict with James'.

Yeah because Love has shown to be a beast and is a 100million dollar player. Tyreke isnt a guy that can carry a team. He's a JR Smith level player, probably better but he's not a star in this league like Love has been. Its hard for superstars to be that with Lebron. But Lebron has mostly made guys who were average or a cut above, much more efficient. Tyreke has the perfect talent level to thrive next to Bron.

da ThRONe
08-31-2016, 02:32 PM
Yeah because Love has shown to be a beast and is a 100million dollar player. Tyreke isnt a guy that can carry a team. He's a JR Smith level player, probably better but he's not a star in this league like Love has been. Its hard for superstars to be that with Lebron. But Lebron has mostly made guys who were average or a cut above, much more efficient. Tyreke has the perfect talent level to thrive next to Bron.

You seem to be too concerned with talent level and not individual skill set. I'm not denying Evans talent level.

IKnowHoops
08-31-2016, 03:13 PM
You seem to be too concerned with talent level and not individual skill set. I'm denying Evans talent level.

Well, its more about there price tag. Even though D-Wade and Lebron James had overlapping skill set, they still played well together. Now Bron's presence didn't allow for Wade's total value to be realized. But if Wade was making 9 mill a year, then his value would of been through the roof with that production. Same with Bosh or K Love. If they were each making 10 mill a year with that production next to Bron your super happy. I'm looking at talent because I'm adding them based on there price tag to production ratio. Thats why regardless of his skillset, if he has talent at a good value, then its a good pickup. Tyreke is an athletic wing player period. He can get buckets. Playing with Lebron he will be a more efficient player who can get buckets. Playing on the court without Lebron just gives the Cavs more depth. At the right price he is a great addition for the cavs.