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JordansBulls
07-31-2016, 06:15 PM
Derrick Rose 2011 Playoffs vs Kyrie 2016 Playoffs vs Stephen Curry 2016 Playoffs who was better

Chronz
07-31-2016, 09:27 PM
Was that the year those guys were injured but only Irving was able to coast to a 1 seed?

JordansBulls
07-31-2016, 10:16 PM
2011 Rose was the one that led Chicago to the top seed and got to the ECF.
And I didn't realize that Curry still averaged 25/5/5 in the 2016 playoffs.

lol, please
07-31-2016, 10:39 PM
Derrick Rose 2011 Playoffs vs Kyrie 2016 Playoffs vs Stephen Curry 2016 Playoffs who was better

Of the three, Curry was the most injured and thus the farthest from 100% during our last playoff run.

It would also take an extreme hater to not admit that if the playoffs are played 9/10 times Curry goes off 9/10 times, we just happened to experience that 1/10 which turned out to be the reality of that post season.

My answer is Curry, then Rose, then Kyrie. I don't see Kyrie having as good a playoff run really ever again, and I don't see Curry having as poor a performance ever again either.

HOLD_THIS_L
08-01-2016, 12:49 AM
Of the three, Curry was the most injured and thus the farthest from 100% during our last playoff run.

It would also take an extreme hater to not admit that if the playoffs are played 9/10 times Curry goes off 9/10 times, we just happened to experience that 1/10 which turned out to be the reality of that post season.

My answer is Curry, then Rose, then Kyrie. I don't see Kyrie having as good a playoff run really ever again, and I don't see Curry having as poor a performance ever again either.
Kinda hard for LeBron's second option not to go off. Lebron as the same effect that curry has with the exception that he's deadly in the post. Yes Kyrie can create his on shot, but open looks never hurt.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

DR_1
08-01-2016, 02:56 PM
Rose easily.

Vee-Rex
08-01-2016, 03:50 PM
You guys really don't even watch the games if you think Kyrie is just feeding off open shots. It's a huge assumption (a fair one at that considering Bron is the #1 option), but it's simply false. Dude was dotting Klay's eyes left and right and was a wizard at creating his own shot against anyone guarding him, Steph included.

2011 playoff Rose was far too inefficient for my liking. .39 FG%, .24 3pt%, .499 TS%. 1st option or not, those are just icky numbers.

Steph and Kyrie's 15-16 playoff performances were pretty close.

Steph: 25/5/5 on .43 FG% .40 3pt% and .60 TS% 22.3 PER
Kyrie: 25/4/3 on .47 FG% .44 3pt% and .57 TS % 24.4 PER

Steph was the number 1 option, so we give him credit for that. But his actual performance was worse than the initial look at his numbers. His assist to turnover ratio was terrible with a whopping 16.7 TOV%. He just didn't perform as well as expected.

I think an argument can be made for Steph's being better, but only because he was the 1st banana. I'd still take Kyrie because his assist to turnover ratio was better with a 9.4 TOV% and he actually outplayed Steph head-2-head in the finals.

Vee-Rex
08-01-2016, 03:56 PM
Follow-up post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-3l5D0RWjw

That's Kyrie's highlights for the entire finals. I count 2 buckets in the first 2 games that resulted in the defense collapsing on LeBron.

He was dotting/abusing Klay/Steph/Green and I bet he would've abused Iggy too if he wasn't glued to LeBron. The whole "he's only scoring on open shots because he's a 2nd option" narrative is nonsense.

Edit:

About 14 points out of Kyrie's 190 finals points came as a result of the defense collapsing on Bron. The Warriors for the most part had a defensive philosophy of 1-on-1'ing LeBron with Iggy guarding him. In no way, shape, or form (and I'd love someone to counter this if they can) did Kyrie feast on GS because of GS focusing more on LeBron.

FlashBolt
08-01-2016, 05:15 PM
Was that the year those guys were injured but only Irving was able to coast to a 1 seed?

Stop. He played the highest level of basketball in his entire career and dominated throughout the playoffs.

WaDe03
08-01-2016, 06:58 PM
Stop. He played the highest level of basketball in his entire career and dominated throughout the playoffs.

Curry was injured though remember? We have to give him a pass for these last 2 finals performances.

Chronz
08-01-2016, 08:01 PM
Stop. He played the highest level of basketball in his entire career and dominated throughout the playoffs.
Stop. He was able to work himself into game speed without having to worry about how it influenced the teams chances at the #1 seed. Wake me up when Kyrie maintains his level of play longer than a few uneven games. His Finals were atrocious for the first 3 games or so and he had a nice stretch scoring the ball thereafter. On balance it was an All-League level performance, nothing more, nothing less.

Steph and Rose faced far more defensive pressure.

Chronz
08-01-2016, 08:09 PM
Follow-up post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-3l5D0RWjw

That's Kyrie's highlights for the entire finals. I count 2 buckets in the first 2 games that resulted in the defense collapsing on LeBron.

He was dotting/abusing Klay/Steph/Green and I bet he would've abused Iggy too if he wasn't glued to LeBron. The whole "he's only scoring on open shots because he's a 2nd option" narrative is nonsense.

Edit:

About 14 points out of Kyrie's 190 finals points came as a result of the defense collapsing on Bron. The Warriors for the most part had a defensive philosophy of 1-on-1'ing LeBron with Iggy guarding him. In no way, shape, or form (and I'd love someone to counter this if they can) did Kyrie feast on GS because of GS focusing more on LeBron.

But teams WOULD put more pressure on Kyrie if they didn't have to worry about his teammates. Like I saw Lillard face FAR more defensive attention in his series vs the Clips, pretty much, the way you guys were guarding a semi injured Curry (overloading his side of the floor) is how we handled Lillard throughout. Your analysis also ignores the very complaint people have against Kyrie, that he often has to get his out of the flow of the offense but Ill check your vid out to give you my take on it if you wish. All I know is that nobody other than Kyrie had the advantage of coasting to the #1 seed while playing the worst overall relatively speaking. The playoffs are a different story but this is where Kyrie has to prove its more than just a hot stretch because LOTS of guys can have hot stretches if their teams are good enough to carry them as far as Kyrie was carried.

Vee-Rex
08-01-2016, 09:37 PM
IDK, Chronz lol. At this point I think you're searching for nooks and crannies to discount Kyrie's performance and need to see more to be impressed. I feel I've seen enough of him in his career to know him and I think he's gonna prove you wrong this next season, even as a 2nd banana. The truth is gonna be a solid back-hand in your face or mine, so we'll see.

With that said, I'll address your points.


But teams WOULD put more pressure on Kyrie if they didn't have to worry about his teammates.

I can't speak much for the Clips/Blazers series, but truthfully what the Clips did on Lillard is irrelevant because the Clips didn't also try it on Kyrie.

However... I DID watch most of the Portland/GS series and all GS did was stick Klay on Lillard (the exact same way they did Kyrie) and Klay proceeded to shut him down (save for some indefensible 30 foot bombs off the PnR that he was blazing away). I mean Lillard's efficiency was just putrid with having Klay on him. (36 FG% 9/25 Fgs per game while 5/11 43% from 3-point range per game)

The Warriors weren't collapsing hard or putting super pressure on Lillard, they just defended him with Klay and Lillard was forced to run PnRs to try to generate offense for himself - something he couldn't even do inside the 3-point line.

Also, Kyrie splits double teams and traps like a hot, red, surgical knife through butter. People like to discount his dribbling skills and you got guys who whine and cry about how he dribbles too much (and he does at times), but I could type a 5000 word essay if I was to recount all the times I've seen that dude shred defenses trying to overplay on him with his dribbling wizardry.

Take a look at those highlights I put up - appromixately 176 of Kyrie's 190 points came with him abusing the defender one-on-one or splitting traps or finishing in traffic after circumventing waves of defenders. He does this on a nightly basis.



Your analysis also ignores the very complaint people have against Kyrie, that he often has to get his out of the flow of the offense


To that, I have no response. You're absolutely right and often times Kyrie does get his out of the flow of the offense. I'd be lying if I told you there weren't quite a bit of times I'm like, "No, no, don't shoot that sh.... YES! GOOD SHOT KYRIE!"

After finding out that Coach Lue has 100% stressed to Kyrie to be extremely aggressive and look for his shot, I don't blame Kyrie as much as I used to. The Cavs averaged an ORTG of 115 in these playoffs (4th best in the history of the NBA) but put up a 116 ORTG against Golden State, and that wouldn't have been possible without Kyrie going into mamba-mode. So as much as we can criticize him for it, we can also praise him.

I only hope that he gets better at getting a feel for when he should go ultra-aggressive or not.

Vee-Rex
08-01-2016, 09:42 PM
OMG watching that dude dribble again... his speed was insane on some of those crossovers.

Edit: Chronz are you looking at how this man is scoring, dude? Like... for real for real.

While I'm watching I'm seeing that what makes Kyrie Irving so unstoppable is his mid-range shot. He breaks down the defender and before help defense can come he's already snatching the bottom of the net. If you see in the link, when Kyrie gets to the rim sometimes there's 2 or 3 defenders and he's still finishing with awkward, out-of-position looking layups. But a lot of the times the defense doesn't even have an opportunity to shift/collapse because after a few dribbles he's killing the mid-range.

That's literally a lost art in today's game and it's a reason why Kobe was hands-down unstoppable. The mid-range game is indefensible. Chris Paul is gonna have a long career playing at a high level because of how deadly he is from mid-range.

I'm sorry, but Kyrie has clearly had the superior 2016 playoffs compared to Curry and 2011 Rose.

basketfan4life
08-03-2016, 03:20 AM
I'd go with Kyrie,too. He was very good all playoffs but dude was literally unstoppable in the last 3 games of the finals, and to top all that, he hit the championship-winning shot. And that is all i can ask for.

basketfan4life
08-03-2016, 03:28 AM
Also i don't think people realize the importance of the ability to make hard shots. Having good %fg,ts is great and all but the ability to make hard shots is very very important too.

At the biggest stage defenses are usually very very good, teams go for big stretches without scoring, percantages go down, and you need that player who can hit a shot that shouldn't taken in the first place. Kyrie has that in him, maybe the best at that in the league.

Chronz
08-03-2016, 11:55 AM
Also i don't think people realize the importance of the ability to make hard shots. Having good %fg,ts is great and all but the ability to make hard shots is very very important too.

At the biggest stage defenses are usually very very good, teams go for big stretches without scoring, percantages go down, and you need that player who can hit a shot that shouldn't taken in the first place. Kyrie has that in him, maybe the best at that in the league.
Hes a great scorer, his ability to make contested shots sometimes gets in the way of his shot selection and has hurt the team in the past, hell it hurt the team in the first 3 Finals games but overall, he had a great finals but he wasn't tasked with carrying a team the way the other 2 were.

Just how many more contested shots is Kyrie forced into without Bron around? If you look at the numbers, hes assisted on more looks than you would imagine and many of his drives have come off secondary action after Bron has already gotten the offense in motion. Its very similar to Kobe and Shaq, when Shaq was around teams always had him in mind and when he wasn't around, Kobe shot an even lower% despite his incredible gift.

You see, there is value in being able to turn something out of nothing, but its also the last resort and something you dont want your team relying on much. Its not a good thing if thats the talent you want to display, its why without Bron's ability to wreck ****, the Cavs have played with horrendous 2-way efficiency.