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View Full Version : Phil Jackson making excuses for the triangle?



JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2016, 04:33 PM
Jackson recently said that today's players lack the skills to run the triangle.


Obviously not true. An Spurs team coudl have run the tri in the last 15 years with great effect if they wanted, and the current GSW roster would be able to run it better than likely any team P-Jax actually coached, given how great everyone is at passing on that team.


Kerr simply implemented a system that was better for his team.

Is this a fair assessment? Or should P-Jax have amended his statement to "Knicks players today lack the skill to run the triangle."

IndyRealist
07-29-2016, 04:38 PM
The players he has lack the skills to run the triangle. Shooting and passing has never been more in style in recent memory.

Tony_Starks
07-29-2016, 04:47 PM
I mean what Phil was saying about players these days lacking simple fundamentals like a reverse pivot and so forth is true BUT he's not fooling anybody, his insistence on running the triangle is ridiculous.

He's ran it with success with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol....guys who had excellent fundamental post work and passing skills out of the double team.

Melo is simply not that guy. Phil is just being s stubborn old man at this point.

A stubborn old man who is pilfering the Knicks.

Hawkeye15
07-29-2016, 04:52 PM
The players he has lack the skills to run the triangle. Shooting and passing has never been more in style in recent memory.

exactly. You need the right skillsets in your players to run the triangle. And he ain't got them.

Hawkeye15
07-29-2016, 04:53 PM
I mean what Phil was saying about players these days lacking simple fundamentals like a reverse pivot and so forth is true BUT he's not fooling anybody, his insistence on running the triangle is ridiculous.

He's ran it with success with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol....guys who had excellent fundamental post work and passing skills out of the double team.

Melo is simply not that guy. Phil is just being s stubborn old man at this point.

A stubborn old man who is pilfering the Knicks.

Towns would be an ideal triangle big. The fundamentals aren't lacking, you just need the players who have them and use them. Phil doesn't have those guys for the most part.

Scoots
07-29-2016, 05:06 PM
The Warriors do run some triangle sets and motions.

Phil is missing more than the players ... also a coach committed to it and a coach and the patience to teach it right. Did Phil ever get a team running the triangle with success without Tex?

Vee-Rex
07-29-2016, 05:14 PM
It takes a lot of patience to implement an effective triangle system. When players and coaches are in and out every other day you'll never get the kind of system you want.

Lends a little credence to guys like Rick Fox for being able to play in that system.

GiantsSwaGG
07-29-2016, 05:27 PM
Towns would be an ideal triangle big. The fundamentals aren't lacking, you just need the players who have them and use them. Phil doesn't have those guys for the most part.

Exactly. With horny well be more of a pick and roll offense that pushes the pace

KingJudah
07-29-2016, 05:34 PM
Triangle smiangle. The knicks just dont have the players.

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2016, 05:40 PM
The Warriors do run some triangle sets and motions.

Phil is missing more than the players ... also a coach committed to it and a coach and the patience to teach it right. Did Phil ever get a team running the triangle with success without Tex?

Yes. The Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Bynum team was coached without Tex.

Though Kobe did learn it prior with Tex when he won with Shaq.

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2016, 05:42 PM
exactly. You need the right skillsets in your players to run the triangle. And he ain't got them.

There are lots of players who could run that offense. I think Love would be a solid post player for that. Obviously LBJ, Wade, Paul George, Harden, Curry, Klay, Dray, KD. Likely DMC. However, Melo is NOT on that list. That's not meant as a knock to him, it just isn't what he does.

jimm120
07-29-2016, 05:52 PM
3 years running of different sets of players, and it is always the players' fault. It is always them that are the problem.

At some point, you gotta understand that the problem isn't them, but you instead

The JR/Iman team couldn't run the triangle.
The tanking team of Gallow couldn't run the triangle.
The Afflalo/Lopez team with Fisher couldn't run the triangle.
The Afflalo/Lopez team with Rambis couldn't run the triangle.

You have to understand how many different sets of players he's put together and still the closest to using the system has been Melo, someone's style that clashes with the triangle. Well, I guess you can say that Sasha also.

Its good to see that Phil is doing things "anti-triangle" right now. The players he is getting and the coach show that he's NOT going with that triangle ideology.

jimm120
07-29-2016, 05:55 PM
The Warriors do run some triangle sets and motions.

Phil is missing more than the players ... also a coach committed to it and a coach and the patience to teach it right. Did Phil ever get a team running the triangle with success without Tex?

See, and here's the problem.

He doesn't accept just "triangle sets and motions". He wants the triangle to be the main thing with other stuff sprinkled in.

well, wanted. I truly believe he's changed up.

But the reality is that what needs to happen is to have another offensive system that is effective and then use some triangle stuff. Not the other way around.

ewing
07-29-2016, 08:25 PM
people taking what Phil Jackson says seriously :laugh2:

Chronz
07-29-2016, 08:41 PM
Post entree passing is a dying art thats for sure

Scoots
07-29-2016, 10:58 PM
Post entree passing is a dying art thats for sure

Guy who can effectively and quickly do something positive with that entry pass are a dying breed ... what comes first the chicken or the egg?

LA_Raiders
07-29-2016, 11:58 PM
Cant argue with the goat. Today's game is trashy and full of 3s.

Chronz
07-30-2016, 01:02 AM
Guy who can effectively and quickly do something positive with that entry pass are a dying breed ... what comes first the chicken or the egg?

True, its a result of both sides not wanting to play traditionally imo.

lol, please
07-30-2016, 02:05 AM
exactly. You need the right skillsets in your players to run the triangle. And he ain't got them.
Well said.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Heediot
07-30-2016, 07:17 AM
Jackson recently said that today's players lack the skills to run the triangle.


Obviously not true. An Spurs team coudl have run the tri in the last 15 years with great effect if they wanted, and the current GSW roster would be able to run it better than likely any team P-Jax actually coached, given how great everyone is at passing on that team.


Kerr simply implemented a system that was better for his team.

Is this a fair assessment? Or should P-Jax have amended his statement to "Knicks players today lack the skill to run the triangle."

I don't think GS is the best example. They lack players with post skills to run it at the highest level. It's inside-out system, rather then the typical outside in nowadays.

Hopper15
07-30-2016, 08:16 AM
I don't think GS is the best example. They lack players with post skills to run it at the highest level. It's inside-out system, rather then the typical outside in nowadays.

It's not an inside out system.

Heediot
07-30-2016, 08:43 AM
It's not an inside out system.

I guess. But do you think they have the best guys as the post options?

Heediot
07-30-2016, 08:53 AM
Green can pass out of the post. KD has post game, and they have deadly shooters. I think if you have a guy in the post that can command the double team for the cutters, it more efficient.

latinofire21
07-30-2016, 09:02 AM
Jackson recently said that today's players lack the skills to run the triangle.


Obviously not true. An Spurs team coudl have run the tri in the last 15 years with great effect if they wanted, and the current GSW roster would be able to run it better than likely any team P-Jax actually coached, given how great everyone is at passing on that team.


Kerr simply implemented a system that was better for his team.

Is this a fair assessment? Or should P-Jax have amended his statement to "Knicks players today lack the skill to run the triangle."

Jason nice idea for a thread. But you are way off. Your amended statement is a bit delusional. Phil Jackson is right when he says todays players lack the skill to run the triangle. That is the truth. It also isn't a bad thing. Many believe running just the triangle is completely outdated. I am one of those people. The teams Phil has won with in the past on a pure talent level was completely elite on both ends of the floor. I think its fair to assume with a Prime Shaq or Prime Jordan you could get away with just about anything and still win.

With that being said all the posters have made correct responses about Golden State and San Antonio. Yes they could have run the triangle exclusively but why would they? The hybrid systems they run now are more potent for them. The rest of the league on the other hand don't have the personnel to have a team EXCLUSIVELY run the triangle. All the names mentioned are superstar players. You don't find role players or regular starters that have their skillset honed in on Triangle attributes. Its more run and gun and pick and roll in todays game. Again I think you are reading into his comments way too much.

smood999
07-30-2016, 09:57 AM
Jackson recently said that today's players lack the skills to run the triangle.


Obviously not true. An Spurs team coudl have run the tri in the last 15 years with great effect if they wanted, and the current GSW roster would be able to run it better than likely any team P-Jax actually coached, given how great everyone is at passing on that team.


Kerr simply implemented a system that was better for his team.

Is this a fair assessment? Or should P-Jax have amended his statement to "Knicks players today lack the skill to run the triangle."

That was not the quote. He was speaking about this generation of players as a whole, not the Knicks.

"Todayís players simply lack the skills to play the triangle. They know how to play one-on-one, catch-and-shoot, and theyíve mastered crossover dribbles, spins, playing off of screens and step-back shots. They donít know how to execute things like inside-reverse pivots and other basic footwork. They have no sense of timing or organization. They donít really know how to play five-on-five basketball. Itís strictly generational."

dnl123
07-30-2016, 10:12 AM
That was not the quote. He was speaking about this generation of players as a whole, not the Knicks.

"Todayís players simply lack the skills to play the triangle. They know how to play one-on-one, catch-and-shoot, and theyíve mastered crossover dribbles, spins, playing off of screens and step-back shots. They donít know how to execute things like inside-reverse pivots and other basic footwork. They have no sense of timing or organization. They donít really know how to play five-on-five basketball. Itís strictly generational."


Overall, most of what Phil is saying simply isn't true. I think he's right about the lack of footwork in young players, but most players can still learn footwork. Outside of that he sounds like a grumpy old man. We're coming off a season with the Warriors playing excellent team basketball and winning more games than any other team has in the regular season. Teams are seeing that isolation ball isn't as effective as efficient ball movement. I'm really excited about where the league is going and the young players in the league right now.

LivinLakers
07-30-2016, 11:02 AM
It's not an inside out system.
It actually is of a sort. It is inside out and outside in. Depending on the defense.
I wonder how many people actually know what the heck the triangle offense is. It used be called the triple post offense and it is based on multiple post positions in the offense. The high post, the low post, and the pivot post. Then there are two wing positions. One wing position creates a triangle with two of the post positions. The offense is based on spacing and then action and reverse action movement based on the two post positions and the defenses response to when the ball is passed into one of the post positions. There is a strong side of the triangle (also called the front side triangle) and a weak side triangle. The offense is initiated from the point or point forward position and then sent to one of the post positions. Once in one of the post positions that is where the action and/or reverse action begin. The action a lot of times involves moving the ball from the strong side to the weak side to test and potentially exploit any weakness in the defense.
The brilliance of the triangle is that it doesn't have offensive sets (specific plays that are ran) but rather positions and action and counter action player movements where the players make the decisions on where to pass the ball and what actions to take. Because of that you need 3 things. You need players that can think for themselves and make decisions on the fly. You need players to work in tandem and that work together collectively. And you need players that don't hold on to the ball. The ball has to move quickly and in a semi predictable pattern. To Phil's point, these are qualities that are not being taught at the high school and college level any more, and most players lack the fundamental to execute the triangle effectively. Plus the current Knick team really doesn't have those types of players. GS runs a set offense, with specific offensive plays. It is a hybrid of the Princeton offense but with set plays. So it is not the triangle offense, especially considering that the triangle that Tex and Phil taught do not have any set plays.

Scoots
07-30-2016, 01:45 PM
True, its a result of both sides not wanting to play traditionally imo.

Big man camps going away and a college game that mostly dismisses the post game means that the skill has to be developed at home and most people don't have a post scoring big to teach them how to do it. Okafor is an outlier, but he spent so much time working on his post scoring he never built his defensive instincts which are more prized in the modern NBA ... most teams would rather have Noel than Okafor because most teams know better how to use Noel.