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JasonJohnHorn
07-15-2016, 08:03 AM
This is not so much a question of who played the best, or who was the best, but who had the best career. For example, though one might argue that Jerry West is better than Kobe Bryant (I'm not saying he is, just that one might argue that), it is clear that Kobe had a better career with his 5 titles, and MVP awards.

Obviously Jordan and Russell are at the top of that list. Jordan has six titles and six FMVPs. Russell has 11 titles and the FMVP is named after him.


Give up your top 5 (or 10 if you wish). Wilt? Kareem? Magic? Bird? Hakeem? Duncan?

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 09:25 AM
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Bird
West
Shaq
Lebron
Wade
KAJ
Iverson

Chronz
07-15-2016, 10:56 AM
I call these the Legacy or resume rankings. KAJ is the GOAT by this standard IMO

KAJ
MJ
DUNCAN
RUSSELL
MAGIC
SHAQ
KOBE
BRON
BIRD
WILT

R. Johnson#3
07-15-2016, 11:00 AM
The White Mamba got a ring without even having to lift a finger.

Chronz
07-15-2016, 11:50 AM
Hondo has to go somewhere. How many rings he get?

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 12:52 PM
Magic/Bird/AI that high on a list is just wrong.

CardinalRed24
07-15-2016, 02:27 PM
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Tim Duncan
Shaquille ONeal
Larry Bird
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:33 PM
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Tim Duncan
Shaquille ONeal
Larry Bird
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson

:down::down::down::down::down::down::down::down::d own::down:

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 02:41 PM
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Tim Duncan
Shaquille ONeal
Larry Bird
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson

Shaq over Timmy but otherwise a decent list...

kdspurman
07-15-2016, 02:45 PM
Shaq over Timmy but otherwise a decent list...

You left TD off yours altogether lol His resume surely stacks up with Shaq's IMO.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:45 PM
Shaq over Timmy but otherwise a decent list...

Funny you mention that but not the absence of LeBron. Laughable.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:46 PM
You left TD off yours altogether lol His resume surely stacks up with Shaq's IMO.

Exactly... and Cardinals left LeBron out and puts Jerry West and Oscar.. what???????
And how do you put Iverson there and not mention Hakeem?

kdspurman
07-15-2016, 02:53 PM
Exactly... and Cardinals left LeBron out and puts Jerry West and Oscar.. what???????
And how do you put Iverson there and not mention Hakeem?

I didn't even catch that Lebron wasn't there. Strictly resumes/achievements he should be there. It's diff than the regular all time list, but def has a place there too.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:57 PM
I didn't even catch that Lebron wasn't there. Strictly resumes/achievements he should be there. It's diff than the regular all time list, but def has a place there too.

By default, I don't see how anyone can have Larry over LeBron at this point. There really isn't much to be discussed for that matter. Oscar Robertson and Jerry West being mentioned and not LeBron really makes zero sense. What more does a player have to accomplish? 3x NBA Finals MVP/3 time NBA Champion, 4x NBA MVP, countless awards and records elsewhere, probably the best player the past 8 years. I'm not sure what else needs to be discussed at this point.

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 03:05 PM
"Impressive" is subjective. It's not just accolades but intangibles.

Iverson, for example, is criminally underrated by the majority of psd becuase volume scorers are looked upon as little value these days BUT he's also your favorite players favorite player.

Jerry West is in literally nobodies top 10 but he's the logo.

Oscar averaged a triple double, how do you tell someone how impressed they should or shouldn't be by that?

Somebody will probably leave Kobe off their 10 impressive list because they simply didn't like the way he went about winning. Somebody might leave Lebron off for the exact same reason, just in a different context.

LivinLakers
07-15-2016, 03:13 PM
Dude, what about Robert Friggin Horry. Dude has 7 rings and didn't have to play as many minutes as the stars, but was always there in crunch time. He gets so much credit for big shots and wins, and he would never get those opportunities if he wasn't playing with stars.

If I had to choose my NBA career, it would be Robert Horry.

JAZZNC
07-15-2016, 03:32 PM
You left TD off yours altogether lol His resume surely stacks up with Shaq's IMO.

Hahahaha, he had AI on his list AND no Duncan. Worst list ever!

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 05:11 PM
"Impressive" is subjective. It's not just accolades but intangibles.

Iverson, for example, is criminally underrated by the majority of psd becuase volume scorers are looked upon as little value these days BUT he's also your favorite players favorite player.

Jerry West is in literally nobodies top 10 but he's the logo.

Oscar averaged a triple double, how do you tell someone how impressed they should or shouldn't be by that?

Somebody will probably leave Kobe off their 10 impressive list because they simply didn't like the way he went about winning. Somebody might leave Lebron off for the exact same reason, just in a different context.

It's not really subjective at all based on facts. Allen Iverson does not have a top ten career in the NBA. I guess if you like him, that's your objection but there is a pretty understood meaning behind impressive.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 05:52 PM
It's not really subjective at all based on facts. Allen Iverson does not have a top ten career in the NBA. I guess if you like him, that's your objection but there is a pretty understood meaning behind impressive.

It actually is subjective, because we all can have different ideas of what makes a "great career" by valuing different aspects of it.

For example I disagree with kdspurman about Duncan being over SHAQ more than anything based on SHAQ's dominance and impact on the game.

kdspurman
07-15-2016, 06:02 PM
It actually is subjective, because we all can have different ideas of what makes a "great career" by valuing different aspects of it.

For example I disagree with kdspurman about Duncan being over SHAQ more than anything based on SHAQ's dominance and impact on the game.

I never said Duncan should be over Shaq. This thread was about who had the most impressive career, and thus I said Duncan's resume matches up with Shaq's. Which is true. May even be better

lol, please
07-15-2016, 06:07 PM
I never said Duncan should be over Shaq. This thread was about who had the most impressive career, and thus I said Duncan's resume matches up with Shaq's. Which is true. May even be better
Well, it isn't about resume it's career. I guess for you that's synonymous but I choose to include things that don't show up on a resume, and for me Shaqs career is greater than Duncan's.

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IKnowHoops
07-15-2016, 06:20 PM
Well, it isn't about resume it's career. I guess for you that's synonymous but I choose to include things that don't show up on a resume, and for me Shaqs career is greater than Duncan's.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

I feel you but it makes no sense that Iverson is on the list and Duncan isn't via Tony Stark. I mean it makes no sense at all. How? Why? The weight he puts on rings when he compares anyone he has above Bron, then to take a guy who is ringless and have him above a guy who has 5 rings and is the best PF ever? Makes no sense. Just illustrates Starks ring argument is BS and just used to fit his agenda.

Chronz
07-15-2016, 06:32 PM
I never said Duncan should be over Shaq. This thread was about who had the most impressive career, and thus I said Duncan's resume matches up with Shaq's. Which is true. May even be better

Yeah I thought thats where JJH was going with this too. He listed West and Kobe as 2 players who are comparable but when you look at their resumes its a no brainer. Shaq and Duncan are comparable but when you look at what they've accomplished resume wise, whats the argument for Shaq? Less titles, less longevity, less MVP's etc..

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 10:11 PM
Listen, if you think being subjective is putting Iverson but not Duncan in it, that isn't really being subjective. That's just being biased. The question is: Who had the most impressive career. There is no denying Duncan has had a better career than Iverson. How you interpret that as subjective is due to your inability in understanding that the question isn't asking for who is your favorite player(s).

naps
07-16-2016, 12:53 AM
Based on OP, NONE in nba history had a better career than Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs, 8 or 9 FMVPs (award was not given then but it's safe to assume) all in just 13 years? INSANE!

Russell
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Hakeem/West
Hondo

lol, please
07-16-2016, 12:58 AM
I feel you but it makes no sense that Iverson is on the list and Duncan isn't via Tony Stark. I mean it makes no sense at all. How? Why? The weight he puts on rings when he compares anyone he has above Bron, then to take a guy who is ringless and have him above a guy who has 5 rings and is the best PF ever? Makes no sense. Just illustrates Starks ring argument is BS and just used to fit his agenda.
I agree with you about Iverson and Duncan, no argument there.

I do put Shaq above Duncan though.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

More-Than-Most
07-16-2016, 01:18 AM
I agree with you about Iverson and Duncan, no argument there.

I do put Shaq above Duncan though.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Why? You keep saying it but have not given any reason why.... Longevity/Rings/defense all point to TD... Subjectivity isnt putting Iverson on a list and leaving Duncan off sorry... That is bias and just not smart. The same with not having lebron on this list. Russell Should be number 1 even ahead of jordan if we are going by accolades/career.

Lebron would be top 5 as well considering all his Mvps/Finals MVPs/Rings/being the best player in basketball 5 plus years/defensive player of the year votes and should be awards/Points/Rebounds/Assits yada yada yada.

I have no issues if someone wants to put Shaq Ahead of timmy I am just curious of why? I have my reasons

More-Than-Most
07-16-2016, 01:21 AM
Based on OP, NONE in nba history had a better career than Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs, 8 or 9 FMVPs (award was not given then but it's safe to assume) all in just 13 years? INSANE!

Russell
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Hakeem/West
Hondo

I would have a similar list to this. I would have Kobe in my top 10 I guess but I get with people not doing it considering the topic... Mvps/Finals MVPs and he never actually being the best player in basketball. You can make an argument for once but outside of that there was never a year any argument can be made.

lol, please
07-16-2016, 01:22 AM
Why? You keep saying it but have not given any reason why.... Longevity/Rings/defense all point to TD... Subjectivity isnt putting Iverson on a list and leaving Duncan off sorry... That is bias and just not smart. The same with not having lebron on this list. Russell Should be number 1 even ahead of jordan if we are going by accolades/career.

Lebron would be top 5 as well considering all his Mvps/Finals MVPs/Rings/being the best player in basketball 5 plus years/defensive player of the year votes and should be awards/Points/Rebounds/Assits yada yada yada.

I have no issues if someone wants to put Shaq Ahead of timmy I am just curious of why? I have my reasons
I already said his dominance and the way he changed the game when he was playing regardless of a shorter career span.

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TheTreys
07-16-2016, 02:49 AM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. LeBron James
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Bill Russell
9. Shaquille O'neal
10. Magic Johnson

Honorable Mentions: Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West

FraziersKnicks
07-16-2016, 06:49 AM
I think the most impressive accolades in an individuals career are MVP's, Finals MVP's and championships.

So going on that, the most impressive careers to me are as follows:

1. MJ = 17 (5 MVP's / 6 FMVP's / 6 rings)
2. KAJ = 14 (6 MVP's / 2 FMVP's / 6 rings)
3. Magic = 11 (3 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 5 rings)
4. LeBron = 10 (4 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 3 rings)
5. Tim Duncan = 10 (2 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 5 rings)
6. Bird = 8 (3 MVP's / 2 FMVP's / 3 rings)
7. Shaq = 8 (1 MVP / 3 FMVP's / 4 rings)
8. Kobe = 8 (1 MVP / 2 FMVP's / 5 rings)
9. Wilt = 7 (4 MVP's / 1 FMVP / 2 rings)
10. Hakeem = 5 (1 MVP / 2 FMVP's / 2 rings)

Obviously you've got guys like Horry/Pippen who won 6-7 rings, but I only include guys who won at least 1 of each. When two guys are on the same number, I value individual MVP's/FMVP's/rings in that order, because I think that's the order of impressiveness in terms of individual accomplishments.

That top 10 is also pretty much the consensus top 10 of all-time (maybe Russell in there for some people) in many orders, shapes and forms.

Of course you've got things like all-time rankings in points/rebounds/assists etc. advanced numbers, postseason numbers, all-star games, all-NBA teams etc. but all these guys are pretty close in a lot of these rankings so for me it comes down to those 3 special accolades of MVP/FMVP/chips.


*Disclaimer: I didn't rank Bill Russell or any of those Celtics players because they played in a league with 8 teams. Winning a title when there are 8 teams in the league isn't the same as slogging though 30 teams. That's why Bill isn't the GOAT with his 11 rings. Just the way I look at it. I find it very hard to rank him. Obviously if he was included, he would be #1 because of those 11 rings, 5 MVP's and however many FMVP's he would've won if the award was handed out then.

Chronz
07-16-2016, 12:28 PM
Solid rationale. Legacy lists tend to be easier

Tony_Starks
07-17-2016, 12:09 PM
Listen, if you think being subjective is putting Iverson but not Duncan in it, that isn't really being subjective. That's just being biased. The question is: Who had the most impressive career. There is no denying Duncan has had a better career than Iverson. How you interpret that as subjective is due to your inability in understanding that the question isn't asking for who is your favorite player(s).

If we are talking about what impresses me, not who's the greater player, I can make my case for AI as opposed to Timmy all day.

AI was bigger than basketball, the face of the league when he wasn't even supposed to be a featured player. Totally unguardable at his size and stature. Completely went against the rules of conventional basketball and carried a team on his back to the Finals playing what people called "losing basketball."

He also changed the entire culture from the way they dressed, carried themselves, sported tattoos, spoke to the media. (Some would say to the leagues detriment btw)

Iverson was a icon.

Did that impress me more than what Duncan did playing his career under the structure in San Antonio and guidance of Pop his whole career? Absolutely it did. Would he be in my top 10 of greatest players ever? Absolutely not.

Again that's subjective.

Lakersfan2483
07-17-2016, 12:51 PM
These types of lists are subjective, but if you are looking just strictly at careers, most people would say the following guys: Kareem, Jordan, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaq.

Honorable Mention: Julius Erving, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Hakeem Olajuwon

JordansBulls
07-17-2016, 02:05 PM
Based on OP, NONE in nba history had a better career than Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs, 8 or 9 FMVPs (award was not given then but it's safe to assume) all in just 13 years? INSANE!

Russell
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Hakeem/West
Hondo

I don't think you can give Russell finals MVP's simply because no one else got the opportunity to only have to win 2 series for 8 of there titles. From the 80's forward everyone had to win 4 series for one title.

ewing
07-17-2016, 02:27 PM
muggsy bogues

europagnpilgrim
07-17-2016, 04:02 PM
If we are talking about what impresses me, not who's the greater player, I can make my case for AI as opposed to Timmy all day.

AI was bigger than basketball, the face of the league when he wasn't even supposed to be a featured player. Totally unguardable at his size and stature. Completely went against the rules of conventional basketball and carried a team on his back to the Finals playing what people called "losing basketball."

He also changed the entire culture from the way they dressed, carried themselves, sported tattoos, spoke to the media. (Some would say to the leagues detriment btw)

Iverson was a icon.

Did that impress me more than what Duncan did playing his career under the structure in San Antonio and guidance of Pop his whole career? Absolutely it did. Would he be in my top 10 of greatest players ever? Absolutely not.

Again that's subjective.

Its good to know someone on here sticks to the basics of it and not get carried away with all the non sense being spewed by these so called experts of the game

You say The Answer was bigger than basketball, so was The Big Dipper and you see where he gets ranked by most on here, way lower than they should

he wasn't supposed to be featured because on his draft day he shunned all the nba legendary media darlings(Bird,Magic,Isaih,Jordan) with that quote on not wanting to be like those guys and do it his way, he got blacklisted day 1 but was so damn good and exciting to watch the nba biz team took full $$ usage of him until he hit that age of 34 and you can see it on how they drafted around him and put a strict coach on his hip for early years, Brown is a hell of a coach(top 2 to me ever) but he was stubborn and wanted to do it his all defensive style way which hurt the team in long run

the league right now is a carbon copy The Answer and he hasn't played since really like 09', I prefer to say 08' fully, like you stated dress/tatt wise, he was very detriment to the upper powers and that was the last straw when he mentioned how fake the 'nba cares' program was during his last all star game during a interview

they have done comparisons on who had a bigger culture influence/impact between the media/fanatics GOAT in Jordan vs The Answer, that should about wrap it up right there because you have to have the dominant game/impact to match to even be included in same sentence as a Jordan/Dipper, like how Shaq was the modern day version of Dipper, because Shaq was that damn dominant, rings or not

and lastly Kobe said Jordan/The Answer were the most fierce competitors he faced aka basically the two best players he faced during his time

people slight him because they are not from where he is from and he bucked the system and influenced all colors from US to China, he was euro stepping before Ginobili but people think Manu created that

Its a reason why Lebron had a poster on his wall of The Answer growing up also CP3/Wade and many others wear that #3 jersey(or mimick his style-game) and its not because of Marbury that's for sure, nobody is wearing 21 because of Duncan, when I think of that number either Nique or KG come to mind, but Duncan is one of the best ever all time, I leave that 'greatest' talk for the birds since it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the best/most dominant on a solo level in a team sport if you have been watching it for years

Rings are like a music artist Grammy award, the strongest team usually politics its way to many Grammy awards but those who don't win or never have won a Grammy have music/albums way way better than those who have won, that's how I look at rings in all sports, see Tupac for proof

naps
07-17-2016, 04:14 PM
I don't think you can give Russell finals MVP's simply because no one else got the opportunity to only have to win 2 series for 8 of there titles. From the 80's forward everyone had to win 4 series for one title.

Has nothing to do with FMVPs. It's not playoff mvp. It's finals mvp. One series.

KnicksorBust
07-17-2016, 09:45 PM
I think the most impressive accolades in an individuals career are MVP's, Finals MVP's and championships.

So going on that, the most impressive careers to me are as follows:

1. MJ = 17 (5 MVP's / 6 FMVP's / 6 rings)
2. KAJ = 14 (6 MVP's / 2 FMVP's / 6 rings)
3. Magic = 11 (3 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 5 rings)
4. LeBron = 10 (4 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 3 rings)
5. Tim Duncan = 10 (2 MVP's / 3 FMVP's / 5 rings)
6. Bird = 8 (3 MVP's / 2 FMVP's / 3 rings)
7. Shaq = 8 (1 MVP / 3 FMVP's / 4 rings)
8. Kobe = 8 (1 MVP / 2 FMVP's / 5 rings)
9. Wilt = 7 (4 MVP's / 1 FMVP / 2 rings)
10. Hakeem = 5 (1 MVP / 2 FMVP's / 2 rings)

Obviously you've got guys like Horry/Pippen who won 6-7 rings, but I only include guys who won at least 1 of each. When two guys are on the same number, I value individual MVP's/FMVP's/rings in that order, because I think that's the order of impressiveness in terms of individual accomplishments.

That top 10 is also pretty much the consensus top 10 of all-time (maybe Russell in there for some people) in many orders, shapes and forms.

Of course you've got things like all-time rankings in points/rebounds/assists etc. advanced numbers, postseason numbers, all-star games, all-NBA teams etc. but all these guys are pretty close in a lot of these rankings so for me it comes down to those 3 special accolades of MVP/FMVP/chips.


*Disclaimer: I didn't rank Bill Russell or any of those Celtics players because they played in a league with 8 teams. Winning a title when there are 8 teams in the league isn't the same as slogging though 30 teams. That's why Bill isn't the GOAT with his 11 rings. Just the way I look at it. I find it very hard to rank him. Obviously if he was included, he would be #1 because of those 11 rings, 5 MVP's and however many FMVP's he would've won if the award was handed out then.

I couldn't help but laugh looking at your list. My list which has been posted a dozen times and has changed as Kobe was once 4th:

MJ
Kaj
Magic
Lebron
Duncan
Kobe
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt

Russ is the toughest bc not all rings are made equal but the 5 league MVPs and 11 rings are too strong to leave out of the top 10. He would have +20 if they had FMVPs in his era.

JordansBulls
07-17-2016, 09:46 PM
Has nothing to do with FMVPs. It's not playoff mvp. It's finals mvp. One series.

Yes I realize that, just saying you can't award Finals mvp if it didn't exist the same you can't award titles to players based on two rounds now. Basically both balance out.