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WaDe03
07-15-2016, 12:15 AM
PG:

1. Westbrook
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Lillard
5. Kyrie

SG:

1. Wade
2. Klay
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Kawhi

PF:

1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Green
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

Couple bold predictions and may have left out a player or 2 by accident.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-15-2016, 12:36 AM
Wade is too low.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 12:38 AM
Wade is too low.

You have the best list so far, congrats!

naps
07-15-2016, 12:42 AM
Klay
Harden
Derozan
Hayward
CJ

tredigs
07-15-2016, 12:43 AM
PG:

1. Westbrook
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Lillard
5. Kyrie

SG:

1. Wade
2. Klay
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Kawhi

PF:

1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Green
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

Couple bold predictions and may have left out a player or 2 by accident.

PG:

1. Curry
2. CP3
3. Westbrook
4. Lowry
5. Wall

SG:

1. Harden
2. Butler
3. Klay
4. Middleton
5. Oladipo

SF:

1: LBJ
2: KD
3: Kawhi
4: PG13
5: Giannis

PF:

1: Draymond
2: Anthony Davis
3: Blake Griffin
4: Porzingis
5: Millsap

C:

1: DMC
2: Deandre Jordan
3: Marc Gasol
4: Nikola Jokic
5: Drummond

More-Than-Most
07-15-2016, 12:44 AM
PG:

1. Westbrook/Curry
2. Curry/Westy
3. Paul
4. Lillard
5. Kyrie

SG:

1. Klay
2. Harden
3. Derozan
4. Middleton
5. Mccollum/Olidapo/Wade

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. George
5. Butler
PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Griffin
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan


Pretty much agreed with the OP outside of LOLWADE

Went the lazy route.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 12:49 AM
How in God's name can you guys think Kawhi is the 5th best player at his own position? He's probably the 5th best player in the world.

Somehow I forgot about KAT entirely. I could actually see him being the best big in the NBA next year.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 12:52 AM
PG:

1. Westbrook/Curry
2. Curry/Westy
3. Paul
4. Lillard
5. Kyrie

SG:

1. Klay
2. Harden
3. Derozan
4. Middleton
5. Mccollum/Olidapo/Wade

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Kawhi

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Griffin
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan


Pretty much agreed with the OP outside of LOLWADE

Went the lazy route.

Feel free to call me out if I'm wrong. I based mine off what I expect in the regular season and for most players what I expect in the playoffs. I didn't see a SG better than Wade in the playoffs last year but I'm not going to debate over it, I know how Wade is viewed and respect your opinion.

More-Than-Most
07-15-2016, 12:53 AM
How in God's name can you guys think Kawhi is the 5th best player at his own position? He's probably the 5th best player in the world.

Somehow I forgot about KAT entirely. I could actually see him being the best big in the NBA next year.

lol i copied his list because i didnt wanna do all the work but assumed he had him 3rd at his position and just changed the horrid ones... Never thought he would have butler ahead of him

lol, please
07-15-2016, 12:54 AM
Harden and Wade over Klay?

Draymond over Davis?

Westbrook over Curry?

:facepalm:

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 12:54 AM
How in God's name can you guys think Kawhi is the 5th best player at his own position? He's probably the 5th best player in the world.

Somehow I forgot about KAT entirely. I could actually see him being the best big in the NBA next year.

It's just a prediction for the upcoming season. A top 5 player should be able to win their team a series or at least dominate a few games in the playoffs.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 12:55 AM
How in God's name can you guys think Kawhi is the 5th best player at his own position? He's probably the 5th best player in the world.

Somehow I forgot about KAT entirely. I could actually see him being the best big in the NBA next year.

SF position is incredibly stacked right now. Probably the most stacked top five ever. I'm guessing he's still betting that Kawhi is still a product of the system player but I definitely have him top 5-7 area.


Anyways:

PG:

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Paul
4. Kyrie
5. Lillard

SG:

1. Harden
2. Klay
3. Wade
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. George
5. Butler

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Griffin
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Drummond
3. Whiteside
4. Jordan
5. Howard

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 12:56 AM
Harden and Wade over Klay?

Draymond over Davis?

Westbrook over Curry?

:facepalm:

Feel free to share your predictions.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 12:57 AM
Harden and Wade over Klay?

Draymond over Davis?

Westbrook over Curry?

:facepalm:

How is Klay better than Harden again? More zero substance posts from you.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 12:58 AM
Feel free to share your predictions.

He's not going to do that because then he actually has to use his brain.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 12:59 AM
How is Klay better than Harden again? More zero substance posts from you.

Because efficiency is a thing. A thing that matters.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:01 AM
I'm predicting better offense from Butler than I am Kawhi while also expecting worse defense from Butler than I am Kawhi. That decision could've went either way but I decided to go with Butler as I feel he is more likely to take over a game, especially in the clutch where I think Kawhi struggles. (Basing his struggles off what I saw last year at times)

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:02 AM
SF position is incredibly stacked right now. Probably the most stacked top five ever. I'm guessing he's still betting that Kawhi is still a product of the system player but I definitely have him top 5-7 area.


Anyways:

PG:

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Paul
4. Kyrie
5. Lillard

SG:

1. Harden
2. Klay
3. Wade
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. George
5. Butler

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Griffin
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Drummond
3. Whiteside
4. Jordan
5. Howard

You predicting Howard gets somewhat back to his old self or Towns just isn't ready to be up there yet?

lol, please
07-15-2016, 01:02 AM
He's not going to do that because then he actually has to use his brain.

hmm.

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Kyrie
4. Lillard
5. Paul

SG:

1. Klay
2. Butler
3. Harden
4. Wade
5. Derozan

SF:

1. LeBron/Durant
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Hayward

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Aldrige
4. Griffin
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 01:04 AM
hmm.

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Kyrie
4. Lillard
5. Paul

SG:

1. Klay
2. Butler
3. Harden
4. Wade
5. Derozan

SF:

1. LeBron/Durant
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Hayward

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Aldrige
4. Griffin
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

I guess thinking was tougher than I thought..

And LeBron=Durant? LOL.. you are pathetic.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:05 AM
Because efficiency is a thing. A thing that matters.

I went with Klay over Harden partly because I hate Harden but also because his defense is possibly even worse than Currys. I went with Wade over Klay because Klay crumbles under pressure on the biggest stage.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 01:07 AM
You predicting Howard gets somewhat back to his old self or Towns just isn't ready to be up there yet?

Howard is still a top five center right now. Think Houston gave up on him and he never seemed interested. Towns is too young right now.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:07 AM
hmm.

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Kyrie
4. Lillard
5. Paul

SG:

1. Klay
2. Butler
3. Harden
4. Wade
5. Derozan

SF:

1. LeBron/Durant
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Hayward

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Aldrige
4. Griffin
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

Not a bad list but LeBron is the undisputed top player in the world, Durant isn't tied or even that close in my opinion.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:08 AM
Howard is still a top five center right now. Think Houston gave up on him and he never seemed interested. Towns is too young right now.

You could be right, I wouldn't be surprised if he is.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 01:09 AM
I went with Klay over Harden partly because I hate Harden but also because his defense is possibly even worse than Currys. I went with Wade over Klay because Klay crumbles under pressure on the biggest stage.

To be fair though, Wade had his lapses against the Raptors...

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 01:11 AM
Not a bad list but LeBron is the undisputed top player in the world, Durant isn't tied or even that close in my opinion.

Him thinking LeBron=Durant is 100% a bad list.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 01:12 AM
Not a bad list but LeBron is the undisputed top player in the world, Durant isn't tied or even that close in my opinion.

Thanks man.

I think undisputed is a strong word to use here. He had a legendary finals performance, but Lebron, Curry, Durant, all three are right there in the same bag, the same conversation.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 01:14 AM
To be fair though, Wade had his lapses against the Raptors...

Actually, if you knew anything about that series, you would know Whiteside was out for like the last four games and they had to rely on Deng/Winslow rotating in the center position with Josh McRoberts acting like a bum as usual. Heat were undersized and that is why you saw Bismack dominate them. Wade was the only consistent player on that team.

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 01:15 AM
To be fair though, Wade had his lapses against the Raptors...

I would say he had a lapse against them in game 7 but ended with like 16 in 3 quarters. Had the game been close I feel he would've pulled it out. He may have also been in foul trouble early on but I could be getting that confused with game 5. They also focused their whole defense on him for most of the series as almost no one else on the Heat showed up much in the playoffs other than Wade except for the 1st round when Deng played good and your occasional good Dragic game every 4 games or so. Klay has crumbled 2 years in a row in the finals pretty bad so he takes a big hit to me.

More-Than-Most
07-15-2016, 01:17 AM
hmm.

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Kyrie
4. Lillard
5. Paul

SG:

1. Klay
2. Butler
3. Harden
4. Wade
5. Derozan

SF:

1. LeBron/Durant
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Jimmy
5. Hayward

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Aldrige
4. Griffin
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

:laugh:

tredigs
07-15-2016, 01:35 AM
KD was bad in the playoffs, but better than Lebron all regular season. And we've seen him be great time and time again.

Not sure what world you guys live in that you think it's "laughable" to project a 28 yr old KD to be better than a 32 yr old Lebron. I've already seen points in KD's career where he was flat out the best player in the world. Don't let your pettiness over his business decisions completely cloud your judgement.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 01:39 AM
KD was bad in the playoffs, but better than Lebron all regular season. And we've seen him be great time and time again.

Not sure what world you guys live in that you think it's "laughable" to project a 28 yr old KD to be better than a 32 yr old Lebron. I've already seen points in KD's career where he was flat out the best player in the world. Don't let your pettiness over his business decisions completely cloud your judgement.

And we've already seen enough from LeBron to prove he doesn't care about the regular season as other guys have been trying to still prove. Curry+Durant are still very young players who have things to prove. LeBron is an established player who doesn't need the regular season to justify his greatness any longer. At this point, getting to the playoffs>Finals is his only goal. Plus, Durant being that awful in the playoffs while you trying to justify them as being somewhat equals is just not good enough for me. It's pretty clear LeBron is and will be the best player next season just because he's shown why season after season. I don't really think this has anything to do with his decision to play for the Warriors. Stay or leave OKC, I'd take LeBron over KD on my team any day and would not hesitate. KD just doesn't do what LeBron can.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-15-2016, 01:45 AM
Lebron being the best SF is pretty much cut and dried common sense at this point.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 01:47 AM
And we've already seen enough from LeBron to prove he doesn't care about the regular season as other guys have been trying to still prove. Curry+Durant are still very young players who have things to prove. LeBron is an established player who doesn't need the regular season to justify his greatness any longer. At this point, getting to the playoffs>Finals is his only goal. Plus, Durant being that awful in the playoffs while you trying to justify them as being somewhat equals is just not good enough for me. It's pretty clear LeBron is and will be the best player next season just because he's shown why season after season. I don't really think this has anything to do with his decision to play for the Warriors. Stay or leave OKC, I'd take LeBron over KD on my team any day and would not hesitate. KD just doesn't do what LeBron can.
KD's D reached a level in the WCF that was better than any other player in the post-season IMO. It was uncanny, and if that is something that is now in his repertoire (obviously, it is, he was facing the best O in the game), then he only needs his O to be at his standard level for him to be at the apex of the game.

LBJ's getting older, and KD is in his max-peak years, it's FAR from ridiculous to predict he will be the better player next season. FWIW I disagree and said as much in my rankings, but to think it's laughable is, well, laughable.

LBJ coasting his reg seasons in the East only to have to turn it on in the playoffs is another matter entirely that I don't feel like getting into right now. But, suffice to say, IMO, it is a massive detriment to his legacy (I realize nearly everyone else disagrees).

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:44 AM
KD's D reached a level in the WCF that was better than any other player in the post-season IMO. It was uncanny, and if that is something that is now in his repertoire (obviously, it is, he was facing the best O in the game), then he only needs his O to be at his standard level for him to be at the apex of the game.

LBJ's getting older, and KD is in his max-peak years, it's FAR from ridiculous to predict he will be the better player next season. FWIW I disagree and said as much in my rankings, but to think it's laughable is, well, laughable.

LBJ coasting his reg seasons in the East only to have to turn it on in the playoffs is another matter entirely that I don't feel like getting into right now. But, suffice to say, IMO, it is a massive detriment to his legacy (I realize nearly everyone else disagrees).

Massive detriment to what again? His legacy? You mean the one where it increased ten-fold because he just won an NBA title against the odds of what? 3%? But yeah, Durant isn't hurting his legacy at all hopping onto the train instead of being the conductor of one. LBJ is getting older but he just put up his best NBA Finals and sure looks like he's still the best player. That doesn't go away in one year. And I'm not sure what defense you're talking about. He wasn't even a better defender than Andre.. who was tasked with guarding the opposing team's best wings.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 02:50 AM
Massive detriment to what again? His legacy? You mean the one where it increased ten-fold because he just won an NBA title against the odds of what? 3%? But yeah, Durant isn't hurting his legacy at all hopping onto the train instead of being the conductor of one. LBJ is getting older but he just put up his best NBA Finals and sure looks like he's still the best player. That doesn't go away in one year. And I'm not sure what defense you're talking about. He wasn't even a better defender than Andre.. who was tasked with guarding the opposing team's best wings.

Apparently I can't discuss anything related to KD with you, apologies. It's too soon and you're too emotional for a rational discussion.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:54 AM
Apparently I can't discuss anything related to KD with you, apologies. It's too soon and you're too emotional for a rational discussion.

Nope, just sounds like you're the one who isn't being rational and resort to the good ol'e "emotional" argument that has been used and tried for the past what? Everyone is over it, dude.. I'm just looking forward to the new season at this point. But you thinking LeBron=KD is laughable and you know it. You know you would take LeBron over KD any day. Don't lie to yourself or try to diminish how great he still is. Or maybe you still think Curry is the best and want to discredit LeBron. I guess that one still hasn't sunk in for you... Unanimous MVP.. LOL.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 03:01 AM
Nope, just sounds like you're the one who isn't being rational and resort to the good ol'e "emotional" argument that has been used and tried for the past what? Everyone is over it, dude.. I'm just looking forward to the new season at this point. But you thinking LeBron=KD is laughable and you know it. You know you would take LeBron over KD any day. Don't lie to yourself or try to diminish how great he still is. Or maybe you still think Curry is the best and want to discredit LeBron. I guess that one still hasn't sunk in for you... Unanimous MVP.. LOL.
You do feel massively emotional. My points stand and are sound, as does Curry's unanimous MVP. Deal with it.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 03:05 AM
You do feel massively emotional. My points stand and are sound, as does Curry's unanimous MVP. Deal with it.

You have no point. You trying to establish KD as the best defender in the post season and then posting "IMO" just shows you are being a total babble at this point. You have zero evidence to support that. Saying IMO doesn't make it true, FYI. And I guess everything that is Warriors-negative is "emotional" according to you. Saying LeBron is diminishing his legacy because he coasts in the regular season while still putting up absurd numbers while not using that same argument for Curry's/Durant's legacy. Totally not biased at all.

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 03:26 AM
Man tre really fell off as a poster.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 03:45 AM
Man tre really fell off as a poster.
Why, because he drops facts, backs them up, and stands his ground?

It isn't homerism if it's true. And he's right. Obviously Durant leaving is still an open wound.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 04:01 AM
As for the list:

PG

Curry
Westbrook
CP3
Lillard
Kyrie

SG

Harden
Butler
Klay
Wiggins
DeRozan

SF

LeBron
Kawhi
KD
George
Melo

PF

Davis
Griffin
Green
Aldridge
Porzingis

C

Cousins
Towns
Drummond
Whiteside
Gasol

Amazed I haven't seen Melo at all yet. The guy played injured last year and was still 22/8/4. Expecting a similar season next year.

My only real bold predictions are both Wiggins/Towns taking the next step and pushing the Wolves towards the playoffs and Porzingis becoming one of the top players at his position. Can potentially see 18/8/2 with 2.5 blocks and above average 3 point shooting if everything comes together.... Or maybe that's just the homer in me? Who knows.

I predict a smaller role on offense for KD so his numbers are gonna take a hit. He's gonna play less minutes and there's gonna be an adjustment period for him. That's why I've got Kawhi ahead of him for next season. I see him improving even more on last season and becoming a 22/7/3 player with that DPOY defense. Was tempted to put them tied at 2 for SF but that's a cop out. In reality either one of them could easily slot in behind Bron as second best SF next year.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 04:04 AM
Why, because he drops facts, backs them up, and stanks his group?

It isn't homerism if it's true. And he's right. Obviously Durant leaving is still an open wound.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Why do you find it amusing to troll on a sports forum? Is it that exciting for you? Lol, please, don't make Tredigs answer this one for you. Why do YOU think Durant is better than LeBron. Give two examples that are even worth discussing.

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 04:05 AM
Why, because he drops facts, backs them up, and stanks his group?

It isn't homerism if it's true. And he's right. Obviously Durant leaving is still an open wound.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

I don't see many facts. Just a lot of "IMO", "you're too emotional" and "deal with it".

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 04:11 AM
As for the list:

PG

Curry
Westbrook
CP3
Lillard
Kyrie

SG

Harden
Butler
Klay
Wiggins
DeRozan

SF

LeBron
Kawhi
KD
George
Melo

PF

Davis
Griffin
Green
Aldridge
Porzingis

C

Cousins
Towns
Drummond
Whiteside
Gasol

Amazed I haven't seen Melo at all yet. The guy played injured last year and was still 22/8/4. Expecting a similar season next year.

My only real bold predictions are both Wiggins/Towns taking the next step and pushing the Wolves towards the playoffs and Porzingis becoming one of the top players at his position. Can potentially see 18/8/2 with 2.5 blocks and above average 3 point shooting if everything comes together.... Or maybe that's just the homer in me? Who knows.

I predict a smaller role on offense for KD so his numbers are gonna take a hit. He's gonna play less minutes and there's gonna be an adjustment period for him. That's why I've got Kawhi ahead of him for next season. I see him improving even more on last season and becoming a 22/7/3 player with that DPOY defense. Was tempted to put them tied at 2 for SF but that's a cop out. In reality either one of them could easily slot in behind Bron as second best SF next year.

I was going to put Melo but I believe Butler is playing SF next season and I don't see how Melo is better than Butler right now. Melo's getting underrated, though.

You're probably a bit too high on Porzingis right now. Let's see how much bigger he gets by the time the season starts. Still think Milsap is too five now and with Bosh coming back also. Dirk still has a solid case for top five.

Totally forgot about Marc Gasol. Noah might be the darkhorse. Any word on his health. Absolutely loved the guy a few years ago.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 04:13 AM
Why do you find it amusing to troll on a sports forum? Is it that exciting for you? Lol, please, don't make Tredigs answer this one for you. Why do YOU think Durant is better than LeBron. Give two examples that are even worth discussing.
I'd love to do so as soon as I get back home and to my PC.

Basketball reference is available to the public btw. Pepper that angus.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 04:20 AM
I'd love to do so as soon as I get back home and to my PC.

Basketball reference is available to the public btw. Pepper that angus.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Basketball reference in terms of what? Sounds like you're going to just avoid answering it and then disappear, come back a week later with another silly troll post, and then repeat it. It's just two things; just say it. Is he a better defender? Passer? It's not that difficult.

naps
07-15-2016, 04:22 AM
What does LeBron being 32 and KD being 28 has to do anything with who is better currently? It's not like you get brownie points on rankings for being younger unless it's a projection for a handful of years. LeBron is significantly better than KD, it's not really debatable. It was a conversation in 2014 when KD had his best year. He clearly regressed while LeBron is still the most dominant and effective player on the planet.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 04:29 AM
Basketball reference in terms of what? Sounds like you're going to just avoid answering it and then disappear, come back a week later with another silly troll post, and then repeat it. It's just two things; just say it. Is he a better defender? Passer? It's not that difficult.
He's a better scorer and he is more efficient. He also has the ability to be an elite passer, we will see what he can do with a team like the Warriors.



sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

naps
07-15-2016, 04:30 AM
Man tre really fell off as a poster.

I second that. An elite poster turned into an absolute homer who takes personal shots at others disagreeing with him nowadays. I used to enjoy reading his insights and now they are just clouded by homerism.

lol, please
07-15-2016, 04:42 AM
Durant: Higher TS%, similar USG% and PER, lower TOV%....


Just LOL at it being a wash. Durant is a top 3 player in the league PERIOD.

strahan92osi72
07-15-2016, 07:03 AM
PG:

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. CP3
4. Lillard
5. Kyrie/Isaiah

SG:

1. Harden
2. Klay
3. DeRozan
4. McCollum
5. Wade/Butler

SF:

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Kawai
4. PG13
5. Melo/Wiggins

PF:

1. Davis
2. Green
3. Griffin
4. Porzingis
5. Aldridge/Favors

C:

1. Cousins
2. Towns
3. Drummond
4. Whiteside
5. Gasol/Jordan

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 07:55 AM
I second that. An elite poster turned into an absolute homer who takes personal shots at others disagreeing with him nowadays. I used to enjoy reading his insights and now they are just clouded by homerism.

I kinda get it. I mean, when your team is bad no one really gets on your back about them (unless it's the Knicks or Lakers). You don't have to defend them as much so you can just go about your business being partial and unbiased.

Obviously when you become a 73 win contender, you get held to a higher standard so in turn people are quicker to pounce on your favorite players in their shortcomings. You become more defensive and then suddenly.. BAM! You're going out on a limb to defend every player on that team and justify unreasonable arguments (I'm not saying this argument is unjustified, but I'm not sure Tre would be making this argument if he was, say, a Nuggets fan).

It's a shame because Tre was part of that group of posters who really bought some serious knowledge and insight to the forum, along with Chronz, Hawkeye, ManRam (when he posts), Flea (even though I don't necessarily agree with his apparent dislike for Bron) etc.

I do get it, but it's a shame to see the kind of responses I would expect from lol p or something.

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 07:56 AM
Then again, it's an online sports forum...Who really gives a ****?

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 08:25 AM
He's a better scorer and he is more efficient. He also has the ability to be an elite passer, we will see what he can do with a team like the Warriors.



sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk


Durant: Higher TS%, similar USG% and PER, lower TOV%....


Just LOL at it being a wash. Durant is a top 3 player in the league PERIOD.

1) Better scorer, yes.
2) Has the ability to be an elite passer? No he doesn't and he's not a better passer than LeBron so why are you bringing this up?
3) Higher TS% because he's a better scorer. They are usually in-sync.
4) Similar USG%...? What does this prove?
5) Lower TOV%... Totally has nothing to do with the fact LeBron handles the ball more for his respective team and again, if TOV% is part of your evidence, you are desperate.

LeBron is the better rebounder, passer, defender, leader, and PLAYER. Just because Durant is top three doesn't mean the gap isn't undeniable. Didn't Curry just win the unanimous MVP?

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 08:56 AM
My eyes are bleeding reading this stuff. Durant was god awful in 3 close out games against the Warriors and we don't even have to mention what Curry did all playoffs but more specifically the Finals. LeBron is head and shoulder the best he proved this in the finals, everyone after can just fall in line. I also don't buy the better scorer argument either. I'm almost certain if LeBron wanted to score more he would but as someone already said and I thought this was obvious to everyone, LeBron coasts during the regular season.

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 10:33 AM
PG

Steph
Westbrook
Kyrie
CP3
Lillard


SG

Klay
Wade
Harden
Derozan
Olidapo

SF

KD
Lebron
George
Kawhi
Melo

PF

Davis
Aldridge
Griffin
Green
Love

C

Cousins
Howard
Drummond
Whiteside
DJ

Vee-Rex
07-15-2016, 10:50 AM
I kinda get it. I mean, when your team is bad no one really gets on your back about them (unless it's the Knicks or Lakers). You don't have to defend them as much so you can just go about your business being partial and unbiased.

Obviously when you become a 73 win contender, you get held to a higher standard so in turn people are quicker to pounce on your favorite players in their shortcomings. You become more defensive and then suddenly.. BAM! You're going out on a limb to defend every player on that team and justify unreasonable arguments (I'm not saying this argument is unjustified, but I'm not sure Tre would be making this argument if he was, say, a Nuggets fan).

It's a shame because Tre was part of that group of posters who really bought some serious knowledge and insight to the forum, along with Chronz, Hawkeye, ManRam (when he posts), Flea (even though I don't necessarily agree with his apparent dislike for Bron) etc.

I do get it, but it's a shame to see the kind of responses I would expect from lol p or something.

Warriors are definitely receiving far more hate than before. It would make anyone defensive. Pre-2014 no one cared about the Cavs and everyone would praise Kyrie for being a young player with talent. Afterward we become contenders? Everyone finds a reason to hate.

Generally people also get a little arrogant when their team wins a title and then follow it up with a 73-win season. So it could be a mixture of both.

I don't really have an issue with any of tre's posts, I just think he can be overly defensive of his players (which is natural).

Vee-Rex
07-15-2016, 11:03 AM
PG:

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Paul
4. Wall
5. Irving

SG:

1. Harden
2. Thompson
3. Wade
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

SF:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Leonard
4. George
5. Butler/Giannis (Giannis bout to blow up this year)

PF:

1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Green
4. Aldridge
5. Millsap

C:

1. Cousins
2. Drummond
3. Towns
4. Jordan
5. Whiteside

Edited for a quick re-arrangement.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2016, 11:32 AM
PG

1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Paul
4. Lowry
5. Conley

SG
1. Harden
2. Klay
3. Middleton
4. Wade
5. McCollum

SF
1. LeBron
2. Leonard
3. Durant
4. George
5. Butler

PF
1. Davis
2. Green
3. Blake
4. Aldridge
5. Milisap

C
1. Towns
2. Cousins
3. Drummond
4. Jordan
5. Whiteside

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 11:50 AM
What's people's case for guys like Lowry, Wall, and Conley over Lillard and Irving?

Hawkeye15
07-15-2016, 12:00 PM
What's people's case for guys like Lowry, Wall, and Conley over Lillard and Irving?

Lowry and Conley don't act like the play is over when they run into a pick for one. They are better 2 way players. Lillard and Irving offer one thing. Buckets. They offer nothing else. Both are young there is still time for growth obviously. But Conley/Lowry will help you win more right now. Or at least through last year, this is a prediction of the upcoming year, the list could change obviously.

TylerSL
07-15-2016, 12:02 PM
Point Guard
1. Steph
2. Westbrook
3. CP3
4. Lillard
5. John Wall (way underrated)

Shooting Guard
1. Harden
2. Wade
3. Butler
4. Klay
5. Derozan

Small Forward
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. Paul George
5. Melo

Power Forward
1. Anthony Davis
2. Griffin
3. Aldridge
4. Bosh (when healthy)
5. Draymond
6. Millsap (making him #5 without Bosh)

Center
1. Cousins
2. Drummond
3. Whiteside
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Marc Gasol

The point guard position is the deepest position as Kyrie, Isiah Thomas, Kyle Lowry, and Mike Conley are really good players and are not top 5 simply because of the depth of the position. I realize Butler may start SF next season with Wade joining Chicago :puke: but I still listed him as SG because that's probably his more natural position. I feel like Klay, while great, is mainly just a spot up shooter and couldn't handle the basketball as well some of the other SG's in the league. If we're determining the best shooters in the league he would obviously be much higher but we're not. Small Forward is the most top heavy position as those first 4 are all top 10 players in the league IMO but after them there is a significant drop off. There is possibly an argument for Antetokounmpo at #5, but gun to my head I'd say Melo. Power Forward has to include Bosh IMO because he is such a great player. When he's on the court he's a top 20 player in this league but I felt like I had to add a 6th so there could be a full top 5 even if he's gone. Center was probably the easiest one to determine. D'Andre and Dwight are too flawed of players to still be considered top 5 when there is so much depth that has came to the position over the last several years.

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 12:08 PM
We're predicting what they will do this season right?

KD is about to have the easiest season of his life because they can't double him and he'll actually be catching and shooting as opposed to having to create hero shots.

Not only will he be the best SF I'd be shocked if he didn't get another MVP.

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 12:27 PM
The KD over LBJ argument is a bit of a joke really if you break the numbers down:

2015-16 regular season:

KD: 28/8/5 on 51/39/90 28.2 PER, .270 WS/48, 7.9 BPM, 6.4 VORP
LBJ: 25/7/7 on 52/31/73 27.5 PER, .242 WS/48, 9.1 BPM, 7.6 VORP

KD's got the edge but it's a slight one. His advantages in shooting percentages and PER are offset by LeBron's superior defense (2.3 DBPM to 0.9 and 4.0 defensive WS to 3.5). If you add it all up KD had the slightly better season but I think that's made even closer by the fact LeBron led a less talented squad to a better record (don't give me that weak East crap either).

Now let's look at the playoffs:

KD: 28/7/3 on 43/28/89 20.3 PER, .130 WS/48, 1.8 BPM, 0.7 VORP in 18 games
LBJ: 26/10/8 on 53/34/66 30.0 PER, .274 WS/48, 13.1 BPM, 3.1 VORP in 21 games

LeBron absolutely blew KD out the water come playoff time. It seems to be quite obvious that the LeBron we see April onwards is the real LeBron, not the coasting "25/7/7 in my sleep" LeBron.

Yes, I will admit KD had the slight edge in the regular season, but when you look at how HUGE the difference is come playoff time, I really don't see a legit argument for KD. Unless you're banking on KD to maintain his volume numbers whilst sharing the rock with Curry/Klay/Green and LeBron to significantly drop off come next season (both highly unlikely) there just isn't an argument for KD. The slight regular season advantage just isn't enough to offset the huge disadvantage come playoff time.

KD and Kawhi are a lot closer than KD and LBJ. That's an argument which would produce some good debates.

ManRam
07-15-2016, 12:27 PM
Hmmm...I haven't done anything like this in a while. Pardon me if I'm rusty.

PG:

Curry
Westbrook
Paul
Lowry
Wall

Thoughts: Curry's still at the top although I do think worries about his ability to dominate a game without his shot falling are valid. I can live with either RWB or CP3 at 2 or 3, but anywhere lower and you're factually incorrect. Lowry stands above the rest because his peers aren't half the defenders he is. I won't fight you over Wall. Kyrie isn't here yet, though. I need to see more from him consistently.

SG:

Harden
Thompson
Middleton
McCollum
DeRozan

Thoughts: In a vacuum, I take Harden over Klay 10 times out of 10. For GSW there is no better option for them than Klay, however. His defense has, however, become slightly overstated, and unless there's an uptick there I'm very comfortable with Harden at 1. I'll cape for Middleton whenever afforded the chance. I have no strong opinions on 4 or 5, or anyone else I didn't put on there. I will say, DeRozan sneakily is a worse defender than even Harden probably is. He is a "go-to" scorer though offensively and that means something. I'm comfortable omitting Wade after his last season.


SF:

LeBron
Kevin
Kawhi
George
Butler

Thoughts: 1 through 3 in that order are indisputable facts and if you don't have it the same you're factually incorrect. Butler and George can go either way, but Butler is now undeniable a SF. This was the easiest group BY FAR.

PF:

Draymond
AD
Millsap
Griffin
Aldridge

Thoughts: Dray is a safe #1 for me. He can do everything and he is often the straw that stirs that team. I don't love AD at two since I think he still has too many weaknesses that hurt his team, but whatever. Millsap is the league's most underappreciated defender which gives him the nod over Blake for me. LMA's numbers fell off as expected but his offensive range and ability is unparalleled.

C:

Cousins
Horford
Jordan
Drummond
Gasol

Thoughts: This was the hardest for me. Cousins is an obvious 1, but after that it's pretty convoluted. Are so many people forgetting Al because they think he's a PF? He's not. Gasol I think has fallen off quite a bit. I wanted to put Towns on there instead of him, but not yet. I don't have strong enough opinions on these centers to argue past 1 and 2.

Vee-Rex
07-15-2016, 12:35 PM
What's people's case for guys like Lowry, Wall, and Conley over Lillard and Irving?

Wall can score well, defend very well, and pass very well, and also shows up in the playoffs when it really matters, so I put him over Irving and Lillard even though both are better scorers.

Lowry is a slightly better scorer than Wall but doesn't defend nor pass nearly as well as Wall, and fails to show up in the playoffs year after year after year. So I put Irving over him because he he's a muuuuuch better scorer and shows up in the playoffs year after year. He was far more hobbled (literally limping all over) in the 2014-15 playoffs and he far outperformed Lowry's best playoffs in his career, so injuries isn't an excuse for me.

Conley is decent all around but not the kind of impactful player as the others.

ManRam
07-15-2016, 12:36 PM
Why, because he drops facts, backs them up, and stands his ground?

It isn't homerism if it's true. And he's right. Obviously Durant leaving is still an open wound.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Of course it's still an open wound. And that's PRECISELY why being a dick about everything is all the worse.

Tre's great. Smarter and more eloquent than I. But his team has turned into something absurdly special and the attitude change that comes with that is inevitable. I do think the whole "deal with it", "you're just being emotional" stuff is tired as ****, especially when emotions clearly are there for him, but hey, shoot your shot.

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 12:36 PM
We're predicting what they will do this season right?

KD is about to have the easiest season of his life because they can't double him and he'll actually be catching and shooting as opposed to having to create hero shots.

Not only will he be the best SF I'd be shocked if he didn't get another MVP.

Just like that helped Kobe have the most efficient 20 PPG season of his career last year?

Oh wait :laugh2:

KD threw away any slither of individual accolades next year when he chose to team up with a superior player. He's not even the #1 guy on his team. Absolutely no chance he wins MVP.

I think it's gonna be a three horse race between Kawhi/LeBron/PG13. Westbrook is the X factor. If he can somehow will the Thunder to a 50 win season whilst putting up his expected video game numbers then he will deserve it.

LeBron is gonna be a front runner by default because he's gonna put up 25/7/7 and his team will be the #1 seed come playoff time.

If the Pacers can get that #2 seed with this revamped team and PG13 has a 24/8/4 season, then he stands a chance.

ManRam
07-15-2016, 12:37 PM
What's people's case for guys like Lowry, Wall, and Conley over Lillard and Irving?

With Lowry it's all about defense. I think that's clearly what separates him from the rest. I don't view Conley, Wall, Lillard or Irving all that differently. I think Kyrie can clearly overtake them all, but we just need to see those high points we saw out of him in the Finals much more regularly first.

Vee-Rex
07-15-2016, 12:42 PM
With Lowry it's all about defense. I think that's clearly what separates him from the rest. I don't view Conley, Wall, Lillard or Irving all that differently. I think Kyrie can clearly overtake them all, but we just need to see those high points we saw out of him in the Finals much more regularly first.

I'm curious... what makes you think Lowry is a better defender than Wall, and do you have stats to support it?

DR_1
07-15-2016, 12:43 PM
C
1) Andre Drummond
2) DeMarcus Cousins
3) Karl-Anthony Towns
4) Marc Gasol
5) Hassan Whiteside

PF
1) Anthony Davis
2) LaMarcus Aldridge
3) Draymond Green
4) Paul Milisap
5) Blake Griffin

SF
1) LeBron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Kawhi Leonard
4) Paul George
5) Carmelo Anthony

SG
1) Jimmy Butler
2) Klay Thompson
3) James Harden
4) DeMar DeRozan
5) Victor Oladipo

PG
1) Stephen Curry
2) Chris Paul
3) Russell Westbrook
4) Damian Lillard
5) Kyle Lowry

LanceUpperCut
07-15-2016, 01:06 PM
PG
1-Curry
2-Westbrook
3-Lillard
4-Paul
5-Lowry

SG
1-Butler
2-Thompson
3-Harden
4-Derozan
5-Middleton

SF
1-LBJ
2-KD
3-George
4-Leonard
5-Antetokoumpo

PF
1-Davis
2-Green
3-Griffen
4-Millsap
5-Aldridge

C
1-Cousins
2-M.Gasol
3-KAT
4-Drummond
5-Horford

Chronz
07-15-2016, 01:50 PM
Projections/Predictions, right?

RWB
Curry
CP3
Kyrie
Lowry or Wall

Curry is entering his version of coast mode+KD adjustment period whereas RWB is entering his no help "Mamba Mode". RWB has every desire to destroy the league at this point, hes entering his peak phental state and has a chip on his shoulder. Come playoffs the argument swings in Curry's favor but I think its a very small gap at that point. I see CP3 having a slightly down year, I remember when we first got him I was hoping a very Tim Hardaway-esque decline and hes beginning to enter those years. Kyrie is a champion and an All-Star but I think he knows he has alot more to prove he belongs in the discussion with the games best. I think he closes the gap with CP3 but the 2 are a tier beneath.


SG
Harden - Dwight leaving is a sigh of relief, the coaching change caters to his strengths, I foresee career year.
Klay - I really wanted to go Butler here because I think Klay might suffer the most in terms of loss of touches with KD's arrival but Butler is an even worse situation having to learn to play off of Rondo and Wade. I hope Im wrong but I dont like the fit.
Jimmy Butler- By default on talent alone but if he were on the Spurs or Clippers, he would be so much more efficient on both ends.
DD
Wade Pecking order will be different in Chicago, I hope Wade understands why.



SF:
Bron
KD
Kawhi

Until I see Bron break down in the Finals or beforehand, I wont believe he doesn't give my team the best chance to win those games.
KD is going to sacrifice alot of touches but he could have an insane defensive season. I see GS having a defensive revival of sorts with this much length and intelligence, I see them passing San Antonio as the games best defensive team and people are going to notice KD's impact on that end.

Kawhi is criminally underrated but he needs to make one more jump, more like a hop because hes godly defensively but as his offensive responsibilities grow, his defense is going to suffer abit so he has to refine a few more skills. Hes a fine scorer, both off the ball and on the wings/blocks but hes only OK as a passer and when the 2 guys above you are either elite scorers or elite playmakers, you have to up your overall game abit. Crazy to think the leagues 3 best players all play the same position.


Paul George - His offensive game is predicated on the mid range jumper, which is fine if you're MJ, Kobe or Dirk but with PG, hes proven to have wildly inconsistent stretches with the J. I think he needs to become more selective with it and stop settling so much. Maybe then we wouldn't see such drastic splits between his 1st and 2nd halves.

Middleton - Cheated abit to squeeze Wade in on the SG list but I feel like Middleton will eventually log most of his minutes at SF at some point in his career. Hes a great secondary scorer and an elite outlet option, you dont find those growing on trees and on a contender, he would be more influential.


PF's
Blake - Just you guys watch, he's still the most imposing force offensively because he can kill you in more ways than any other PF. His playoff run of a mere 2 years ago seems like a distant memory but hes still the same athlete who started off the season (18G) averaging 25-9-5. I dont know exactly when he got hurt but it supposedly happened really early in the year and the Clips misdiagnosed him. You can either assume he will ease into it this year or that hes hungry to show hes back. Im hoping for the latter.

AD - Too productive and with the right supporting cast, would be even more dangerous. I think he takes a major step this year with his positioning and supposedly hes been playing through some dings that he never took care of until now. Should return to form and if he goes back to historic numbers, I might put him at #1.

Draymond - Would prolly rather have him as my teams PF than anyone else because of the unique diversity of his game, I just have high hopes for the 2 guys above him. He was easily the best PF last year tho.

Milsap - Closest approximation to DG defensively and hes better offensively.

Aldridge - Curious to see how he does without many of the brutes around him and being pared with a lesser defender in Pau. Might be a few years too late but we'll see how the 2 mesh.


Centers:
Marc Gasol
KAT
Drummond/DJ
Horford

naps
07-15-2016, 01:52 PM
Kyrie Irving is such a wizard when it comes to one on one scoring. It's almost like you sometimes wish he had better court vision and he was a better and consistent defender. I dont really count him as a point guard. He is a special undersized scoring 2 guard in my eyes. When he starts dancing around the defender, it's a beautiful thing to watch if you are a fan of the game. Best ball handler in the game easily.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2016, 02:03 PM
We're predicting what they will do this season right?

KD is about to have the easiest season of his life because they can't double him and he'll actually be catching and shooting as opposed to having to create hero shots.

Not only will he be the best SF I'd be shocked if he didn't get another MVP.

Durant also plays by far his career low in minutes, and see his usage drop.

mrblisterdundee
07-15-2016, 02:10 PM
I expect the usage rate of Golden State players to dip and even out across the board between their Big Four, which I'm factoring into my rankings.

PG: Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, Kyle Lowry
SG: James Harden, Klay Thompson, Dwyane Wade, DeMar DeRozan,
SF: LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, Paul George, Jimmy Butler
PF: Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Paul Milsap
C: DeMarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Hassan Whiteside

Redrum187
07-15-2016, 02:12 PM
I'm shocked to see Derozan get into so many people's top 5. I hate that guy.

I suppose Hayward is more of a SF, but Middleton was used primarily at SG last season and I'd easily rather have Middleton than Derozan. I'd also take Oladipo over Derozan. Danny Green is more valuable due to his contract and skillset to me...

Shooting Guards
1.) James Harden
2.) Klay Thompson
3.) Jimmy Butler
4.) Dwyane Wade
5.) Kris Middleton
6.) Victor Oladipo
7.) ....

Redrum187
07-15-2016, 02:22 PM
PG
1.) Stephen Curry
2.) Russell Westbrook
3.) Chris Paul
4.) Kyrie Irving
5.) Damian Lillard

SG
1.) James Harden
2.) Klay Thompson
3.) Jimmy Butler
4.) Dwyane Wade
5.) Kris Middleton

SF
1.) LeBron James
2.) Kawhi Leonard
3.) Kevin Durant
4.) Paul George
5.) Gordan Hayward

PF
1.) Anthony Davis
2.) Draymond Green
3.) Lamarcus Aldridge
4.) Blake Griffin
5.) Dirk Nowitzki

C
1.) Karl Anthony Towns
2.) Demarcus Cousins
3.) Andre Drummond
4.) DeAndre Jordan
5.) Marc Gasol

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:26 PM
We're predicting what they will do this season right?

KD is about to have the easiest season of his life because they can't double him and he'll actually be catching and shooting as opposed to having to create hero shots.

Not only will he be the best SF I'd be shocked if he didn't get another MVP.

You also said the same thing about Kobe having his most efficient season this past season.. Predictions isn't your suit.

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 02:35 PM
You also said the same thing about Kobe having his most efficient season this past season.. Predictions isn't your suit.

Not exactly apples to apples sir.

If you don't think the change from playing with a trigger happy pg, NO offense to speak of just taking turns,and taking contested shots all night..... to playing in a free flowing offense at a ridiculous pace against single coverage isn't going to make a pretty big impact then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Basketball common sense would say his efficiency goes way up, and for a player at his skill level that can be scary.

We saw what happened with Lebron when he was playing with multiple allstar and you couldn't double him, why would you not expect the same from KD who is a waaaaay better shooter?

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 02:37 PM
Durant also plays by far his career low in minutes, and see his usage drop.

Currys minutes, usage, and shot attempts all dropped last year and he didn't have any problems.

Won MVP sitting out fourth quarters half the year.

I don't think KD will have a problem.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2016, 02:42 PM
Currys minutes, usage, and shot attempts all dropped last year and he didn't have any problems.

Won MVP sitting out fourth quarters half the year.

I don't think KD will have a problem.

I don't think he will have a problem, but I don't think he puts up the numbers to challenge for MVP to a serious nature. If he does, that means Klay/Steph are giving up a lot more than I expect on their numbers. Green as well.

Also factor in that LeBron was shunned by the MVP voting committee after his move. I would expect Durant to get similar punishment.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:43 PM
Not exactly apples to apples sir.

If you don't think the change from playing with a trigger happy pg, NO offense to speak of just taking turns,and taking contested shots all night..... to playing in a free flowing offense at a ridiculous pace against single coverage isn't going to make a pretty big impact then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Basketball common sense would say his efficiency goes way up, and for a player at his skill level that can be scary.

We saw what happened with Lebron when he was playing with multiple allstar and you couldn't double him, why would you not expect the same from KD who is a waaaaay better shooter?

How is it not apples-to-apples? It's a question of your evaluation of players. It's just not very good. You were very high on Kobe being able to score 20 PPG on 50% shooting or something. He had his worst season. Not saying Durant will because he's a top three player but to assume his efficiency will skyrocket and that will make him the best SF has no relation. Just because he can score, doesn't mean he is better. Durant's always been a better scorer.

And to your point about Curry's advanced stats and whatever else dropping,

Curry's minutes are higher in 15-16 than the year before.
So is his USG%.
So is his shot attempts.

Sharing the ball with three scorers means less shot attempts and opportunity. Wouldn't surprise me if Durant and Curry both score between the 24 PPG area, Klay around the 20 area, etc.,

WaDe03
07-15-2016, 03:03 PM
For those asking, yes this is your predictions for next season.

Tony_Starks
07-15-2016, 03:20 PM
I don't think he will have a problem, but I don't think he puts up the numbers to challenge for MVP to a serious nature. If he does, that means Klay/Steph are giving up a lot more than I expect on their numbers. Green as well.

Also factor in that LeBron was shunned by the MVP voting committee after his move. I would expect Durant to get similar punishment.

I don't Green suffering at all. He's a do it all guy, it's not like his numbers are astounding anyway. Maybe less points but his assist probably go up.

As far as Steph and Klay I think you underestimate how quickly and easily they can fill it up. These dudes are getting 3-5 threes a night so they're already penciled for 15 points off top. They are still going to score plenty but KD is the best inside and outside threat of the 3 so he'll probably be the go to guy.

I'd picture something like KD 30ppg Steph 25ppg Klay 18-20 Dray 15. OR even better what if Curry goes Steve Nash mode and is like 16 points but just dropping dimes all night? Possibilities are endless.

With their record and him no doubt shooting ridiculously efficiently he'll be a legit MVP threat.

The only thing that can hold him back is disgruntled butt hurt voters hating.

mightybosstone
07-15-2016, 03:27 PM
Harden and Wade over Klay?

Draymond over Davis?

Westbrook over Curry?

:facepalm:

Let's compare Harden and Klay for a second, shall we? One of these guys just got surrounded by shooters and an offensive-minded coach that plays exactly the kind of basketball that fits his style of play. The other guy just got resigned to being the offensive No. 3 after his team added a second top 5 player in the league.

Harden having a better season than Thompson is a foregone conclusion, chief, just as he's been better every single season of their careers. Accept it, and move on.

mightybosstone
07-15-2016, 03:39 PM
I'm going purely by production here:

PG
1. Russell Westbrook
2. Stephen Curry
3. Chris Paul
4. Kyrie Lowry
5. Damian Lillard

SG
1. James Harden
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Klay Thompson
4. DeMar Derozan
5. Dwyane Wade

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Paul George
5. Andrew Wiggins

PF
1. Blake Griffin
2. Anthony Davis
3. Draymond Green
4. Paul Millsap
5. LaMarcus Aldridge

C
1. DeMarcus Cousins
2. Karl-Anthony Towns
3. Andre Drummond
4. Hassan Whiteside
5. DeAndre Jordan

DanG
07-15-2016, 03:56 PM
Anyone who thinks Kawhi is better or will have a better year than KD is smoking.

My predictions:

PG:
1. Stephen Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Chris Paul (possibly last chance for him to do something with the Clips)
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Damian Lillard

SG:
1. James Harden
2. Klay Thompson
3. DeMar DeRozan
4. Dwyane Wade
5. C.J McCollum

SF:
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Paul George
5. Jimmy Butler
Close 6. Carmelo Anthony

PF:
1. Anthony Davis
2. Draymond Green
3. Blake Griffin
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Paul Millsap

C:
1. DeMarcus Cousins
2. Andre Drummond
3. Karl Anthony Towns
4. Hassan Whiteside
5. Dwight Howard

FraziersKnicks
07-15-2016, 04:55 PM
I don't Green suffering at all. He's a do it all guy, it's not like his numbers are astounding anyway. Maybe less points but his assist probably go up.

As far as Steph and Klay I think you underestimate how quickly and easily they can fill it up. These dudes are getting 3-5 threes a night so they're already penciled for 15 points off top. They are still going to score plenty but KD is the best inside and outside threat of the 3 so he'll probably be the go to guy.

I'd picture something like KD 30ppg Steph 25ppg Klay 18-20 Dray 15. OR even better what if Curry goes Steve Nash mode and is like 16 points but just dropping dimes all night? Possibilities are endless.

With their record and him no doubt shooting ridiculously efficiently he'll be a legit MVP threat.

The only thing that can hold him back is disgruntled butt hurt voters hating.

Absolutely no chance KD averages 30. No way his usage is high enough. With the amount of blowouts, he's probably gonna play about 32-34 MPG.

I see something like this:

KD: 22-24 PPG
Steph: 22-24 PPG
Klay: 16-18 PPG
Green: 12-14 PPG
Zaza: 6-8 PPG

They averaged 34 PPG off the bench last season. So that's roughly 83 PPG from your starters and let's say another 34 from the bench (maybe even more because of the blowouts). That's 117 a game which would be the highest in years.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 05:09 PM
To make things clear, scoring for KD has always been easy. He's a scorer and that's what scorers do. They can score against anyone regardless of the situation and since KD IMO is the most talented scorer we've ever seen, there is no question he can continue scoring points. But when you start talking about 30 points, the most important thing outside scoring is shot attempts. There is no way KD will get that many shot attempts. He might be sitting out fourth quarters just like Curry did last season.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 05:20 PM
22 for either is definitely too low of an estimate. I'd expect ~25 on record-level efficiency for both, Klay probably gives up a couple shots and drops back to 18 ppg, and Draymond as well from 14 to 10-11 ppg. A lot will depend on minutes though, and there is no way any of them approach > 36 mpg. So a point less on all of those would be a reasonable guess (assuming health for everyone here).

lol, please
07-15-2016, 05:44 PM
Of course it's still an open wound. And that's PRECISELY why being a dick about everything is all the worse.

Tre's great. Smarter and more eloquent than I. But his team has turned into something absurdly special and the attitude change that comes with that is inevitable. I do think the whole "deal with it", "you're just being emotional" stuff is tired as ****, especially when emotions clearly are there for him, but hey, shoot your shot.
The problem is warriors fans aren't the ones being emotional.

I don't know how you truly expect him to act, or any of us for that matter. The Warriors got through a record breaking season and are the best team in the league. These are facts, not opinions. How is someone mocking the facts, or denying them, not something to scoff at?

The KD over LBJ argument is a bit of a joke really if you break the numbers down:

2015-16 regular season:

KD: 28/8/5 on 51/39/90 28.2 PER, .270 WS/48, 7.9 BPM, 6.4 VORP
LBJ: 25/7/7 on 52/31/73 27.5 PER, .242 WS/48, 9.1 BPM, 7.6 VORP

KD's got the edge but it's a slight one. His advantages in shooting percentages and PER are offset by LeBron's superior defense (2.3 DBPM to 0.9 and 4.0 defensive WS to 3.5). If you add it all up KD had the slightly better season but I think that's made even closer by the fact LeBron led a less talented squad to a better record (don't give me that weak East crap either).

Now let's look at the playoffs:

KD: 28/7/3 on 43/28/89 20.3 PER, .130 WS/48, 1.8 BPM, 0.7 VORP in 18 games
LBJ: 26/10/8 on 53/34/66 30.0 PER, .274 WS/48, 13.1 BPM, 3.1 VORP in 21 games

LeBron absolutely blew KD out the water come playoff time. It seems to be quite obvious that the LeBron we see April onwards is the real LeBron, not the coasting "25/7/7 in my sleep" LeBron.

Yes, I will admit KD had the slight edge in the regular season, but when you look at how HUGE the difference is come playoff time, I really don't see a legit argument for KD. Unless you're banking on KD to maintain his volume numbers whilst sharing the rock with Curry/Klay/Green and LeBron to significantly drop off come next season (both highly unlikely) there just isn't an argument for KD. The slight regular season advantage just isn't enough to offset the huge disadvantage come playoff time.

KD and Kawhi are a lot closer than KD and LBJ. That's an argument which would produce some good debates.

An advantage is an advantage.

I love how you excuse someone disappearing during the regular season "because playoffs". It's called a small sample size stud.

And I love how we (PSD) act like Lebron's defense offsets anything, but when this same argument happens over Klay and Harden, people still want to give Harden the nod when he has no defense.

Move the goalposts much?

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 07:03 PM
How are you not emotional? You guys have been way too giddy this past two weeks. I just don't see how anyone can claim Durant is on James level after what we just saw.

tredigs
07-15-2016, 07:36 PM
Pretty sure it wasn't even Warrior fans projecting KD to be better. But why let facts get in the way of your dialogue.

For the first time in KDs career he'll be able to coast somewhat himself. He'll also be coming off his first healthy full season + off-season in years. He was also better day in and day out than LBJ during the 82 game reg season. He's also 4 years younger and LBJ is turning 32, a historica swing year (in a downward direction), for many past dominant wings. Time will tell who is better (i say LBJ), but to think it's some "LMAO!" worthy notion (that you and most others seem to think), comes off highly ignorant to me. He's a good enough player to pull it off.

Stunner
07-15-2016, 07:37 PM
Im prob one of the few to think Butler could put up PGs numbers if he had just as high of usage . PG goes through a lot of shooting slumps in his career . Idk but that's just me

FraziersKnicks
07-16-2016, 04:10 AM
Pretty sure it wasn't even Warrior fans projecting KD to be better. But why let facts get in the way of your dialogue.

For the first time in KDs career he'll be able to coast somewhat himself. He'll also be coming off his first healthy full season + off-season in years. He was also better day in and day out than LBJ during the 82 game reg season. He's also 4 years younger and LBJ is turning 32, a historica swing year (in a downward direction), for many past dominant wings. Time will tell who is better (i say LBJ), but to think it's some "LMAO!" worthy notion (that you and most others seem to think), comes off highly ignorant to me. He's a good enough player to pull it off.

LBJ is just coming off arguably the greatest finals performance of all-time and one of the most impressive post season runs in history though. There's nothing to suggest he's slowing down. There's also a lot to suggest KD's impact and role will be smaller than last season.

If that's all we can go on at the moment then I think it's a fair estimation that LBJ is the better player next season.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 09:02 AM
LBJ is just coming off arguably the greatest finals performance of all-time and one of the most impressive post season runs in history though. There's nothing to suggest he's slowing down. There's also a lot to suggest KD's impact and role will be smaller than last season.

If that's all we can go on at the moment then I think it's a fair estimation that LBJ is the better player next season.

Fortunately, there is history (precedent), the much longer regular season and the ability to actually predict change to go off of. Not just 15-20 game sample sizes and saying, "welp guess that's it then!".

Notice no Warrior fans crying that Westbrook is predicted by many to be better than the reigning b2b MVP who just had a top-10 reg season in history and is still in his peak. Food for thought.

Kush McDaniels
07-16-2016, 11:39 AM
Kawhi is the 3rd best SF at worst.

Jimmy Butler is a SG.

Stunner
07-16-2016, 11:48 AM
Kawhi is the 3rd best SF at worst.

Jimmy Butler is a SG.

Butler is playing SF this year , prob would have been playing SF majority but it's mostly based on how our roster is set up .

FraziersKnicks
07-16-2016, 11:59 AM
Fortunately, there is history (precedent), the much longer regular season and the ability to actually predict change to go off of. Not just 15-20 game sample sizes and saying, "welp guess that's it then!".

Notice no Warrior fans crying that Westbrook is predicted by many to be better than the reigning b2b MVP who just had a top-10 reg season in history and is still in his peak. Food for thought.

I think those people are just as off discounting Curry over Westbrook. Whether Warrior fans want to come in and argue that is their prerogative. Doesn't mean they're correct.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 12:14 PM
I think those people are just as off discounting Curry over Westbrook. Whether Warrior fans want to come in and argue that is their prerogative. Doesn't mean they're correct.

It's probably less grounded in fact than KD over 'Bron, but this is a prediction thread and who am I to laugh someone out of the room for making an educated guess.

bostncelts34
07-16-2016, 12:15 PM
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. CP3
4. Kyrie
5. Wall

SG:

1. Klay
2. Harden
3. Wade
4. Derozan
5. McCollum (bias pick...Bradley)


SF:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kawhi
4. George
5. Butler

PF:

1. Davis
2. Griffin
3. Green
4. Aldridge
5. White Mamba ( or I guess you could put Millsap here....either way)

C:

1. Cousins
2. Whiteside
3. Drummond
4. Towns
5. Jordan

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 12:15 PM
It's simple, do you think KD is better than Curry? If the answer is no then he isn't near LeBron. Warriors fans aren't defending Curry over Westbrook right now because they're probably tired of defending him after his terrible finals performance.

LanceUpperCut
07-16-2016, 01:54 PM
I can't believe people are so high on Whiteside.

Stunner
07-16-2016, 01:55 PM
I can't believe people are so high on Whiteside.

Well he has the opportunity to be a top 5 Center with what's on the current Heat roster especially with Bosh health in the air .

lol, please
07-16-2016, 01:56 PM
It's simple, do you think KD is better than Curry? If the answer is no then he isn't near LeBron. Warriors fans aren't defending Curry over Westbrook right now because they're probably tired of defending him after his terrible finals performance.

Curry was awful in the finals. Does that mean he isn't the best PG? It doesn't. I can see the arguments for Westbrook, but I am one of the people who would take Curry over Westbrook at point, and you can just brush that off and say well it's because you a Warriors fan, but there are many, many non-warriors fans who would agree with that.

naps
07-16-2016, 02:23 PM
I can't believe people are so high on Whiteside.

Most people are low on him from what I have seen so far here. But we shall see soon enough. I have a feeling he will be putting up mind boggling numbers this upcoming season since he will be the number one option without Bosh. The only issue I have with him is he is still immature and that might end his time in Miami sooner than most expect. He will be given his chance and if he doesnt put his **** together, Pat will ship him out quick.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 02:24 PM
It's simple, do you think KD is better than Curry? If the answer is no then he isn't near LeBron. Warriors fans aren't defending Curry over Westbrook right now because they're probably tired of defending him after his terrible finals performance.

Not quite that simple unfortunately. Both could have better seasons than LBJ next year. Specifically since they should both be as healthy and rested as ever going into the playoffs. We shall see.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:18 PM
Not quite that simple unfortunately. Both could have better seasons than LBJ next year. Specifically since they should both be as healthy and rested as ever going into the playoffs. We shall see.

You could be right I just don't see it. These are all predictions so there's no way to tell right from wrong but as of right now LeBron is the clear cut best player in the world after what he did.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:20 PM
Curry was awful in the finals. Does that mean he isn't the best PG? It doesn't. I can see the arguments for Westbrook, but I am one of the people who would take Curry over Westbrook at point, and you can just brush that off and say well it's because you a Warriors fan, but there are many, many non-warriors fans who would agree with that.

Yea I'm not arguing that it's dumb to put Westbrook ahead of curry, I think it's dumb to put anyone ahead of LeBron or tied with LeBron. I just don't see any way anyone is on his level next year when you look at both sides of the ball.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:23 PM
Also to explain why I have Russell as the top PG for next year......if he's still on OKC he's probably going to shoot 30 shots a game while averaging double digit assists. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him average 33-8-10. If he doesn't win MVP it's because the thunder weren't as good as the Cavs or Warriors, which they won't be.

lol, please
07-16-2016, 04:24 PM
Yea I'm not arguing that it's dumb to put Westbrook ahead of curry, I think it's dumb to put anyone ahead of LeBron or tied with LeBron. I just don't see any way anyone is on his level next year when you look at both sides of the ball.
Look for Curry to prove you wrong this season.

Curry is the more dominant player.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:26 PM
I've seen a few guys mention this but by KD going to the Warriors it makes it harder for him and Curry to win MVP like it did Wade and LeBron their first year together. LeBron and Wade were both better than Rose the year he won MVP as were others. I disagree with the whole better record argument in winning MVP in many different situations but that's a completely other topic.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:27 PM
Look for Curry to prove you wrong this season.

Curry is the more dominant player.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Curry is more dominant than who?

tredigs
07-16-2016, 04:28 PM
The "both sides of the ball" argument is interesting. I actually thought KD put on the single best playoff performance on the defensive end in that GSW series, and it's extremely rare to see elite-level D from 'Bron at this point. We saw some in the Finals this year for sure, but last year he was a complete non-factor in any type of ISO D situation during the playoffs, and especially in the Finals. So it's not as if we can just expect that dominance from him. With KD having more ease on the offensive end, it's possible we see a HIGHLY elite defensive season from him, one that would outweigh Bron on that end by a ways.

lol, please
07-16-2016, 04:29 PM
Curry is more dominant than who?
Than LeBron or even prime Wade.

Look, I am going to point to back to back regular season dominance, you will point to Curry being absent (and also hurt) in the playoffs and LeBron going off, and we are going to go in circles.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:31 PM
The "both sides of the ball" argument is interesting. I actually thought KD put on the single best playoff performance on the defensive end in that GSW series, and it's extremely rare to see elite-level D from 'Bron at this point. We saw some in the Finals this year for sure, but last year he was a complete non-factor in any type of ISO D situation during the playoffs, and especially in the Finals. So it's not as if we can just expect that dominance from him. With KD having more ease on the offensive end, it's possible we see a HIGHLY elite defensive season from him, one that would outweigh Bron on that end by a ways.

Idk maybe I just wasn't paying attention to it but I thought KD was awful in that series in many different situations but maybe I was too focused on offense where he was just flicking up terrible contested shots and bricking them.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 04:39 PM
Than LeBron or even prime Wade.

Look, I am going to point to back to back regular season dominance, you will point to Curry being absent (and also hurt) in the playoffs and LeBron going off, and we are going to go in circles.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

Both prime Wade and LeBron would lock Curry up and abuse him on the other end. They're both just too physical and athletic for him but as you said we will just go in circles so it's a pointless conversation. Scottie Pippens shirt said it best "72-10 don't mean a thing without he ring" that applies to the Warriors and Currys season in my opinion. He dominated the regular season? Cool, what did he do with the season on the line on the biggest stage is the way I look at it. I'm not buying the injured excuse because he was doing 360 dunks in warmups. Wade was visibly injured in 2013 and 2014 in the finals where you saw him limping up and down the court but no one excused him for his terrible play in 2014. All I heard is that he was washed up which as you can see now he's clearly not. Injured or not they're expected to play at a high level and Curry has shrunk in 2 straight finals and so has Klay. Had curry dominated when they won the finals and had there been a time where he looked gimpy going up and down the court then maybe I buy the excuse but that's not the case. Curry isn't anywhere near as dominant as LeBron is still to this day so that's a ridiculous statement. There hasn't been a player as dominant as LeBron since Jordan.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 05:09 PM
Both prime Wade and LeBron would lock Curry up and abuse him on the other end. They're both just too physical and athletic for him but as you said we will just go in circles so it's a pointless conversation. Scottie Pippens shirt said it best "72-10 don't mean a thing without he ring" that applies to the Warriors and Currys season in my opinion. He dominated the regular season? Cool, what did he do with the season on the line on the biggest stage is the way I look at it. I'm not buying the injured excuse because he was doing 360 dunks in warmups. Wade was visibly injured in 2013 and 2014 in the finals where you saw him limping up and down the court but no one excused him for his terrible play in 2014. All I heard is that he was washed up which as you can see now he's clearly not. Injured or not they're expected to play at a high level and Curry has shrunk in 2 straight finals and so has Klay. Had curry dominated when they won the finals and had there been a time where he looked gimpy going up and down the court then maybe I buy the excuse but that's not the case. Curry isn't anywhere near as dominant as LeBron is still to this day so that's a ridiculous statement. There hasn't been a player as dominant as LeBron since Jordan.

Yeah, I mean, injuries happen but it's pretty foolish to not understand that mid-season Curry was not post-season Curry. Kawhi's a far better defender than anything I've ever seen from Wade, and I've seen Curry flat out embarrass him, as well as countless other top-tier defender(s) throughout the past 5 seasons or so.

I've mentioned it once or twice here, but people's opinions of Curry and what he is capable of are laughably low right now. It's as if they think teams were not trying against him all year. I assure you, they were. In fact I have never seen opposing teams try so hard in my life as I did versus GS in this 82 game season. It was as if every single one had them penciled in as the game of their year.

bklynny67
07-16-2016, 05:27 PM
Is it a joke or something that the op picked Wade as the top SG when anyone that knows anything about basketball knows he's borderline top 5.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 05:29 PM
Yeah, I mean, injuries happen but it's pretty foolish to not understand that mid-season Curry was not post-season Curry. Kawhi's a far better defender than anything I've ever seen from Wade, and I've seen Curry flat out embarrass him, as well as countless other top-tier defender(s) throughout the past 5 seasons or so.

I've mentioned it once or twice here, but people's opinions of Curry and what he is capable of are laughably low right now. It's as if they think teams were not trying against him all year. I assure you, they were. In fact I have never seen opposing teams try so hard in my life as I did versus GS in this 82 game season. It was as if every single one had them penciled in as the game of their year.

They're low because he doesn't show up on the biggest stage. That's simply what it comes down to. If you want to be considered the best you have to be the best when it matters most. I see Warriors fans say Curry is better than Wade all time when that's far from the truth. I would argue that Wade in the 2006, 2011, 2012, and 2013 (visibly injured) finals were better than any of Currys 2 finals performances. I'm not saying that's why Wade is better by any means but that's a huge factor out of the many different factors that go into deciding something like that. I'm just not buying that curry is any more injured than anyone else at that point in the season when a guy who can barely dunk on a wide open fast break is doing 360 dunks in warmups.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 05:29 PM
Is it a joke or something that the op picked Wade as the top SG when anyone that knows anything about basketball knows he's borderline top 5.
It's Wade03, not really worth discussing Wade with him lol.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 05:37 PM
Is it a joke or something that the op picked Wade as the top SG when anyone that knows anything about basketball knows he's borderline top 5.

I've seen multiple people put him in their top 3 and I think even a few had him 2nd. This is starting to get off track but if he's borderline top 5 name 5 that played better than him in the playoffs last year. Wade was the clutchest player in the playoffs through 2 rounds in many different categories on offense and defense, that's including all players. I'll even go out on a limb and say he was the best defensive SG in the playoffs last season. Reply however you like but make sure to include the 5 SGs that you think outplayed him in the playoffs last year. You can quote me several times on here saying there will be multiple SGs better than him over the course of a regular season but Wade will almost always outplay them head to head and is the best in the playoffs so that factored into my ranking. Him looking to prove himself after moving and having a chip on his shoulder from the Heat doing him wrong this offseason also factor into my prediction.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 05:40 PM
It's Wade03, not really worth discussing Wade with him lol.

At least I'm backing up my prediction with facts lol. People just want to discount Wades abilities because he's 34 and will be 35 in January. Think about that for a second, he's that old and many people still say he's top 3.

Allphakenny1
07-16-2016, 05:42 PM
Both prime Wade and LeBron would lock Curry up and abuse him on the other end. They're both just too physical and athletic for him but as you said we will just go in circles so it's a pointless conversation. Scottie Pippens shirt said it best "72-10 don't mean a thing without he ring" that applies to the Warriors and Currys season in my opinion. He dominated the regular season? Cool, what did he do with the season on the line on the biggest stage is the way I look at it. I'm not buying the injured excuse because he was doing 360 dunks in warmups. Wade was visibly injured in 2013 and 2014 in the finals where you saw him limping up and down the court but no one excused him for his terrible play in 2014. All I heard is that he was washed up which as you can see now he's clearly not. Injured or not they're expected to play at a high level and Curry has shrunk in 2 straight finals and so has Klay. Had curry dominated when they won the finals and had there been a time where he looked gimpy going up and down the court then maybe I buy the excuse but that's not the case. Curry isn't anywhere near as dominant as LeBron is still to this day so that's a ridiculous statement. There hasn't been a player as dominant as LeBron since Jordan.

You are definitely underrating Curry. He is one of those elite offensive players where it does not matter who is guarding him, he will get his.

From what I hear, I'm not a doctor, a MCL injury effects lateral movement and quickness. So because Curry was jumping/dunking, does not mean he was not injured. In fact, this shows why his defense fell off so much after the injury because he could not move side to side to keep up with anyone. You can believe whatever you want, but anyone with eyes, and no bias, could see that Curry was not the same player after his injuries. Respect to him for not complaining about it.

Why do people keep saying Curry shrunk/choked in his first finals appearance? He averaged 26 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 1.8 steals. All this while facing traps and multiple double teams after crossing half court against a very good defense. I would say that Curry had a very good finals.

WaDe03
07-16-2016, 05:45 PM
You are definitely underrating Curry. He is one of those elite offensive players where it does not matter who is guarding him, he will get his.

From what I hear, I'm not a doctor, a MCL injury effects lateral movement and quickness. So because Curry was jumping/dunking, does not mean he was not injured. In fact, this shows why his defense fell off so much after the injury because he could not move side to side to keep up with anyone. You can believe whatever you want, but anyone with eyes, and no bias, could see that Curry was not the same player after his injuries. Respect to him for not complaining about it.

Why do people keep saying Curry shrunk/choked in his first finals appearance? He averaged 26 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 1.8 steals. All this while facing traps and multiple double teams after crossing half court against a very good defense. I would say that Curry had a very good finals.

Not underrating Curry at all, I think he's top 4 player but when discussing him vs LeBron I don't see how it's been a conversation. Numbers lie sometimes, if he was that great in the finals he would've won MVP unanimously with those numbers.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 05:46 PM
You are definitely underrating Curry. He is one of those elite offensive players where it does not matter who is guarding him, he will get his.

From what I hear, I'm not a doctor, a MCL injury effects lateral movement and quickness. So because Curry was jumping/dunking, does not mean he was not injured. In fact, this shows why his defense fell off so much after the injury because he could not move side to side to keep up with anyone. You can believe whatever you want, but anyone with eyes, and no bias, could see that Curry was not the same player after his injuries. Respect to him for not complaining about it.

Why do people keep saying Curry shrunk/choked in his first finals appearance? He averaged 26 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 1.8 steals. All this while facing traps and multiple double teams after crossing half court against a very good defense. I would say that Curry had a very good finals.
I don't know if his first finals was very good, but he definitely showed up after the slow initial start. The dude had the most 4th Q points in NBA Finals history... twice.

Bruno
07-16-2016, 08:25 PM
Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Lillard
Irving
Wall

Klay
Butler
Harden
Middleton
Oladipo
Booker

Leonard
LeBron
Giannis
Durant
George
Batum

Davis
Green
Blake
Aldridge
Turner
Kris

Cousins
Towns
Drummond
Whiteside
Jordan
Gobert


Lowry, Kemba, Simmons, Hayward, Parker and Jokic all knocking on their respective door.

Melo, Horford, Milsap, Wade, Derozan, Marc and Love are out, imo. i expect them all to be passed over by the younger group by mid season. wanted to add LMA to the aged out/marginalized group but the Spur system won't allow that for another year or two.

looks weird now, but I think this might look reasonable next June.

tredigs
07-16-2016, 09:35 PM
^Lol. No Bruno, that one will look silly. But I do appreciate the willingness to look silly. Turner/KD/CP3/Klay are all preeeeeety tough sells where they are at.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 01:17 AM
^Lol. No Bruno, that one will look silly. But I do appreciate the willingness to look silly. Turner/KD/CP3/Klay are all preeeeeety tough sells where they are at.
thats why i came back. :oldguy:

4/25 isn't bad.

You have Kris in your top 5 right? I like him a lot too, I just think Turner has a bit more opportunity w/ the talent on the roster. I have them putting out near equal seasons next year. both those guys are going to be amazing.

KD- in the eyes of the fans and likely in MVP voting- he's going to get buried unless he comes out and kills it and the team is unbeatable. thats possible. but that production gets split between four great players and I wouldn't be surprised to slight statistical drop off. In that scenario I can buy an argument that the birth of peak Leonard and the emergence of Giannis as a dominant all-star on an emerging team surpasses Durant on a loaded team.

Klay I might concede but its really up to Harden.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 01:20 AM
regarding CP3. There is a vacuum at the top end of the west now. The Spurs are in semi transition and OKC isn't a top 4 team. If the Clippers emerge as the second best team in the conference behind Paul and the Warriors are either struggling or aren't producing as high individually with Durant, look for Paul to get a lot credit/MVP love. he's still considerably better on defense.

More-Than-Most
07-17-2016, 01:34 AM
Man tre really fell off as a poster.

Understatement.

WaDe03
07-17-2016, 02:49 AM
Who is Kris lol?

naps
07-17-2016, 03:09 AM
Who is Kris Bruno? I mean which elite PF has a first name that starts with Kris? I hope you are not talking about Kim Kardashian's once *****.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-17-2016, 03:16 AM
Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Lillard
Irving
Wall

Klay
Butler
Harden
Middleton
Oladipo
Booker

Leonard
LeBron
Giannis
Durant
George
Batum

Davis
Green
Blake
Aldridge
Turner
Kris

Cousins
Towns
Drummond
Whiteside
Jordan
Gobert


Lowry, Kemba, Simmons, Hayward, Parker and Jokic all knocking on their respective door.

Melo, Horford, Milsap, Wade, Derozan, Marc and Love are out, imo. i expect them all to be passed over by the younger group by mid season. wanted to add LMA to the aged out/marginalized group but the Spur system won't allow that for another year or two.

looks weird now, but I think this might look reasonable next June.

Are you high?

Im_in_Mia_bish
07-17-2016, 03:59 AM
Man tre really fell off as a poster.

What the hell do u expect? Warrior fans have fell off as quality sports fans.

Im_in_Mia_bish
07-17-2016, 04:09 AM
PG:
Westy
Curry
Kyrie
Lilliard
Wall

SG:
Harden
Klay
DeRozan
Beal
Wade

SF:
LBJ
Durant
Kwahi
PG
Butler/Giannis

PF:
Davis
Griffin
Draymond
LMA
Ibaka

C:
Cousins
Drummond
Towns/Whiteside
Jordan

Im_in_Mia_bish
07-17-2016, 04:15 AM
Curry was awful in the finals. Does that mean he isn't the best PG? It doesn't. I can see the arguments for Westbrook, but I am one of the people who would take Curry over Westbrook at point, and you can just brush that off and say well it's because you a Warriors fan, but there are many, many non-warriors fans who would agree with that.

Anyone thinking Currys production this coming season will be better than westys needs to watch another sport. Sorry to burst y'all delusional bubbles but there's 1 ball. Curry, durant, klaus production will all dip. Def higher efficiencies however.

Westy meanwhile is about to go bezerk and wouldn't be surprised if he breaks Jordan's consecutive trip dubs.

mightybosstone
07-17-2016, 09:31 AM
Than LeBron or even prime Wade.

Look, I am going to point to back to back regular season dominance, you will point to Curry being absent (and also hurt) in the playoffs and LeBron going off, and we are going to go in circles.

sent from my Note 5 on Tapatalk

This is truly one of the most homer statements you've ever made. Curry had an unbelievable season last year, but he doesn't deserve to be spoken in the same sentence as peak Lebron James. Curry has had one season with a WS/48 over .300 and only two with a WS/48 over .240. Lebron has had four and seven of those, respectively. Curry has one of the top 10 BPM seasons of all time. Lebron has FIVE of those! Lebron dominates Curry in every relevant defensive statistic aside from steals, and even has him beat on every assist statistic despite being a forward.

Seriously, it's not close. Lebron is pretty much a top 5 all-time player by the standards of any competent NBA analyst. And if we're just talking peak performance, he's unquestionably top 2.

And that's before I ever even bring up the postseason, where Lebron and even Wade are so far superior in their playoff resumes that Curry would need at least a couple of dominant Finals performances to overcome. The guy just got done ******** the bed in one of the highest rated NBA Finals of all-time a year after having his 6th man beat him for Finals MVP. It's not a good look for a superstar. Before you belong in the dominance conversation with guys like Lebron and Wade, you have to prove yourself in the playoffs, and Curry really hasn't done that.

But before we ever even bring up the playoffs, Lebron still unquestionably dominates Curry in regular season production. Curry had two great years. Lebron has had a great decade. And while Curry might have the obvious edge as a shooter and in terms of scoring efficiency, Lebron dominates in basically every other area of significance on the basketball court.

mightybosstone
07-17-2016, 09:33 AM
I keep seeing Thompson voted over Harden, and I can't believe there are so many people who lack that much common sense. Harden's numbers next year are going to so dwarf Thompson's, that this will be a laughable conversation a year from now even with Thompson's edge on the defensive side of the ball. Harden is the No. 1 guy in a fast-paced offense. Thompson is now the No. 3 guy on a team with two of the top 5 players in the world--expect a significant decline in his offensive numbers.

tredigs
07-17-2016, 11:08 AM
thats why i came back. :oldguy:

4/25 isn't bad.

You have Kris in your top 5 right? I like him a lot too, I just think Turner has a bit more opportunity w/ the talent on the roster. I have them putting out near equal seasons next year. both those guys are going to be amazing.

KD- in the eyes of the fans and likely in MVP voting- he's going to get buried unless he comes out and kills it and the team is unbeatable. thats possible. but that production gets split between four great players and I wouldn't be surprised to slight statistical drop off. In that scenario I can buy an argument that the birth of peak Leonard and the emergence of Giannis as a dominant all-star on an emerging team surpasses Durant on a loaded team.

Klay I might concede but its really up to Harden.
Yeah I really like Middleton's game, and Giannis' actually. It's too bad their D fell off so much last year and they regressed as much as they did. The Klay/KD slots are just off to me seeing as you're simultaneously downgrading KD due to his situation (which #'s wise I don't think will be as detrimental as some think, especially since we should see an up-tick in efficiency), while thinking Klay somehow takes over as the premier SG despite being a 3rd option (and 4th best player on the team imo)? I like Klay a lot and he's definitely the best possible player for GS at SG, but Harden's clearly a more productive player and frankly Jimmy Butler is probably better on both ends + more consistent.

On Turner we just disagree. I actually think Portland is the worst possible situation he could have joined. He's a guy who needs the ball in his hands a ton to maintain his productivity, and that just won't happen for him there. Dame and CJ are going to dominate the ball and he's going to be relegated to being a 3D guy. Only he can't shoot. I think his stellar confidence suffers a major blow this year, unfortunately, and so with it his game.

PS: laughing at how half this thread is people dissecting my posting ability. I promise you, I could care less what you think (obviously that shows).

tredigs
07-17-2016, 11:24 AM
I could buy Devin Booker as a top-5 SG this season also. I'd be fine having him over Derozan or CJ.

Lakersfan2483
07-17-2016, 01:24 PM
Point Guards- Steph Curry, R. Westbrook, C. Paul, K. Irving, D. Lillard

Shooting Guards- J. Harden, K. Thompson, D. Wade, J. Butler, D. Derozan

Small Forwards- Lebron, Durant, K. leonard, P. George, Carmelo

Power Forwards- B. Griffin, A. Davis, Draymond Green, Lamarcus Aldridge, K. Love

Centers- D. Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns, Marc Gasol, A. Drummond, D. Howard

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-17-2016, 01:29 PM
Point Guards- Steph Curry, R. Westbrook, C. Paul, K. Irving, D. Lillard

Shooting Guards- J. Harden, K. Thompson, D. Wade, J. Butler, D. Derozan

Small Forwards- Lebron, Durant, K. leonard, P. George, Carmelo

Power Forwards- B. Griffin, A. Davis, Draymond Green, Lamarcus Aldridge, K. Love

Centers- D. Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns, Marc Gasol, A. Drummond, D. Howard

Butler will play SF next season.

Lakersfan2483
07-17-2016, 01:36 PM
Butler will play SF next season.

Oh that's right. So my list is a little different now with the shooting guards.

I have Harden, Klay, Wade, Derozan, CJ McCollum

xxplayerxx23
07-17-2016, 01:45 PM
Curry
Westy
Paul
Lillard
Wall

Harden
Klay
Butler
Demar
Wade

Lebron
Durant
Leonard
PG13
Melo

Davis
Griffin
Draymond
LMA
Milsap

Cousins
Towns
Drummond
Whiteside
Jordan

xxplayerxx23
07-17-2016, 01:46 PM
Hoping KP
Can get into a top 4 PF lol

naps
07-17-2016, 07:35 PM
Bruno was talking about Miles Turner at PF, not Evan Turner. He is not a PF.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 07:45 PM
Yeah I really like Middleton's game, and Giannis' actually. It's too bad their D fell off so much last year and they regressed as much as they did.
Prediction- look for the Bucks to move Monroe and MCW before the deadline for the missing piece and for MIL to propel to top four in the conference.


The Klay/KD slots are just off to me seeing as you're simultaneously downgrading KD due to his situation (which #'s wise I don't think will be as detrimental as some think, especially since we should see an up-tick in efficiency),
true.


while thinking Klay somehow takes over as the premier SG despite being a 3rd option (and 4th best player on the team imo)? I like Klay a lot and he's definitely the best possible player for GS at SG, but Harden's clearly a more productive player and frankly Jimmy Butler is probably better on both ends + more consistent.
I think Jimmy and Klay are on similar levels, but I don't see the Wade/Rondo/Butler situation doing anyone any favors from a numbers standpoint. If the Warriors are thriving and the Bulls aren't a playoff team nobody is going to be talking about how Jimmy Butler had a better season than Klay Thompson, imo. Harden should be #1, but can we really predict better defensive output from Harden while he's running this offense? He's going to be as bad as ever on that end. he'll get a pass if they win and he's spectacular, if they don't and he isn't then he won't. I don't mind Harden at #1 I just don't think its crazy to consider Klay or Jimmy.



On Turner we just disagree. I actually think Portland is the worst possible situation he could have joined. He's a guy who needs the ball in his hands a ton to maintain his productivity, and that just won't happen for him there. Dame and CJ are going to dominate the ball and he's going to be relegated to being a 3D guy. Only he can't shoot. I think his stellar confidence suffers a major blow this year, unfortunately, and so with it his game.
dude I'm talking about Myles Turner. haha

Bruno
07-17-2016, 07:46 PM
Hoping KP
Can get into a top 4 PF lol
i don't think its crazy

Bruno was talking about Miles Turner at PF, not Evan Turner. He is not a PF.
right, thanks naps.

and before i was talking about Kristaps.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 07:50 PM
I keep seeing Thompson voted over Harden, and I can't believe there are so many people who lack that much common sense. Harden's numbers next year are going to so dwarf Thompson's, that this will be a laughable conversation a year from now even with Thompson's edge on the defensive side of the ball. Harden is the No. 1 guy in a fast-paced offense. Thompson is now the No. 3 guy on a team with two of the top 5 players in the world--expect a significant decline in his offensive numbers.
In the regular season for sure. What happens when a bad match up happens? Or if GS sweeps Houston with Klay marginalizing Harden? I'm not predicting a happy end in the playoffs for Harden thats why I'm swinging for Jimmy or Klay, narrative is everything. Advanced metrics don't give Klay his fair due on offense either. what he does to opposing defenses off the ball doesn't show up in the stat sheet in a way that would be easy for us to praise him.

I like Harden.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 07:56 PM
I could buy Devin Booker as a top-5 SG this season also. I'd be fine having him over Derozan or CJ.
we all might be early with these Kristaps, M. Turner, Booker inclusions but if its not next year its for sure the year after. those guys are legit.

ManRam
07-17-2016, 09:56 PM
Yeah...ya'll gotta pump the breaks. Booker's 19...maybe in 3-4 years he'll be there, but he'd have to make such an absurd jump to even get in the discussion. I know it's just a stat, but Booker was 89th out of 95 qualified SGs in RPM last year.

Is he projected to become a good defender, either? Because the numbers suggest he was pitiful defensively last year, too. PITIFUL. I'll admit that I saw almost none of him last year, so anyone who has can trump me. But damn...the numbers are ugly.

Bruno
07-17-2016, 10:07 PM
Yeah...ya'll gotta pump the breaks. Booker's 19...maybe in 3-4 years he'll be there, but he'd have to make such an absurd jump to even get in the discussion. I know it's just a stat, but Booker was 89th out of 95 qualified SGs in RPM last year.

Is he projected to become a good defender, either? Because the numbers suggest he was pitiful defensively last year, too. PITIFUL. I'll admit that I saw almost none of him last year, so anyone who has can trump me. But damn...the numbers are ugly.

the eye test doesn't match the numbers with Booker. Ive seen him in two summer leagues and caught about two dozen sun games last year. splits before and after the new year are drastic. he averaged 18 on 40% over the last 45 games. pretty poor but in the context that he as a SG was asked to facilitate the offense (as the youngest player in the league) it's pretty impressive. With Bledsoe and Knight back, the three of them will cut up the back court minutes in third. That puts him at around 32 mpg, with upside. He doesn't have tremendous physical skills as a defender but he's smart and has the athleticism to stay in front of people. his three point % will sky rocket next to Bledsoe.

he's very good. he's not on the standard rookie/sophmore level/ time-table. he dominated the summer league to the extent that you knew he shouldn't be there. if that's the case now and he avoids the 'sophomore wall' he might have a decent argument in the back of the top 5 after a successful season. plus were talking about SG, it's not a stacked position.

mightybosstone
07-17-2016, 11:40 PM
In the regular season for sure. What happens when a bad match up happens? Or if GS sweeps Houston with Klay marginalizing Harden? I'm not predicting a happy end in the playoffs for Harden thats why I'm swinging for Jimmy or Klay, narrative is everything. Advanced metrics don't give Klay his fair due on offense either. what he does to opposing defenses off the ball doesn't show up in the stat sheet in a way that would be easy for us to praise him.

I like Harden.
I'm sorry. Your justification for picking Klay over Harden is that they MIGHT face each other in the playoffs and Harden MIGHT not play well in the series? I'm sorry dude, but that is the weakest justification for an argument I've seen on PSD in a while. Harden will unquestionably have a better season, and even if the Warriors beat the Rockets again in the playoffs, that hardly makes Klay the better player. The guy plays on one of the greatest teams on paper in the history of the league.

Narrative is important, but it should never be the sole basis of your opinion. That's completely ridiculous.

Bruno
07-18-2016, 12:40 AM
I'm sorry. Your justification for picking Klay over Harden is that they MIGHT face each other in the playoffs and Harden MIGHT not play well in the series? the Warriors aren't the only team that has the personnel to make a seven game series a personal nightmare for Harden. But yeah considering that the rockets and warriors have met two years in a row in the playoffs I wouldn't consider the possibility of it happening again statistical anomaly, although you MIGHT be able to convince me otherwise with a better argument as to why its so improbable that the Rockets have to go through either the Warriors or Spurs next season, if they get there at all.


I'm sorry dude, but that is the weakest justification for an argument I've seen on PSD in a while.relative to his regular season production, Harden has dropped of in three of the past four post-seasons with the Rockets. there's nothing weak about the argument, it's been documented that when teams clamp down on him he can't produce at a level that justifies his inadequacies on defense compared to a player with a more well rounded game like Klay Thompson. Harden is better at one thing, and that's passing. Klay doesn't have great numbers in the post-season either but his impact is felt in a ball game even when his production is low. He's a multi-impact player, you know that even if the production is suffering that he's contributing in ways that aren't accounted for in all the metrics. Harden dominates the ball in an offense that isn't even designed to rebound his misses.


Harden will unquestionably have a better season, and even if the Warriors beat the Rockets again in the playoffs, that hardly makes Klay the better player.
that would depend on the manner in which they were beat and how that match up went.


The guy plays on one of the greatest teams on paper in the history of the league.
regular season, yeah.
yeah, we saw how it went last year and the year before.


Narrative is important, but it should never be the sole basis of your opinion. That's completely ridiculous.

yeah but if one player out plays his match up or rival then everyone throws the stats out the window. thats why we all anonymously agreed that LeBron is better than Curry again. heads up against each other Harden had an average game score of 19.1, Klay 17.0 in 4+ less minutes a game. You're acting like there's some huge gap between them, I just don't see it.

by the way, I'm not saying thats right. but thats how to public thinks. we can sit here in our ivory castle of fanhood and feel smart about crunching numbers but at the end of the day stupid stuff like this all matters, and I'm here to have some fun making predictions. most of these lists are boring.

Bruno
07-18-2016, 12:50 AM
yeah but if one player out plays his match up or rival then everyone throws the stats out the window. thats why we all anonymously agreed that LeBron is better than Curry again. heads up against each other Harden had an average game score of 19.1, Klay 17.0 in 4+ less minutes a game. You're acting like there's some huge gap between them, I just don't see it.

What I mean by that is that nobody was talking about Currys brilliant regular season numbers when comparing him to LeBron after the series. right or wrong that happened, nobody cared about the regular season production anymore.

Bruno
07-18-2016, 12:59 AM
I'm going purely by production here:

PG
1. Russell Westbrook
2. Stephen Curry
3. Chris Paul
4. Kyrie Lowry
5. Damian Lillard

SG
1. James Harden
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Klay Thompson
4. DeMar Derozan
5. Dwyane Wade

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Paul George
5. Andrew Wiggins

PF
1. Blake Griffin
2. Anthony Davis
3. Draymond Green
4. Paul Millsap
5. LaMarcus Aldridge

C
1. DeMarcus Cousins
2. Karl-Anthony Towns
3. Andre Drummond
4. Hassan Whiteside
5. DeAndre Jordan

I guess thats why were have such differing opinions. I'm not as certain that production is the only tool we should use. i know that sounds crazy but there's a lot more to basketball than listing ranks around the numbers. context and individual circumstance are so tied to production, it doesn't necessarily show us what the player is in a hard comparison to another player, more so what he's capable of in a given dynamic compared to the other player in a different more difficult to compare dynamic. Klay and Harden find themselves in such different circumstances I'm not sure if debating production is as useful in this comparison.

Chronz
07-18-2016, 10:02 AM
Yeah pump the breaks on Booker, dude isn't there yet.

FlashBolt
07-18-2016, 12:07 PM
Who is Kris lol?

Kris Middleton.

WaDe03
07-18-2016, 01:08 PM
Kris Middleton.

They're talking about PF. I think it's Kristaps.

WaDe03
07-18-2016, 01:10 PM
It's funny, nobody argued my stance as to why I have Wade first after they called me out for it.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-18-2016, 06:23 PM
It's funny, nobody argued my stance as to why I have Wade first after they called me out for it.

Common sense bud. Do you honestly believe he's first or just trolling?

WaDe03
07-18-2016, 06:55 PM
Common sense bud. Do you honestly believe he's first or just trolling?

Not trolling at all, check my posts from a page or 2 back. NBA Finals series, give me Wade over any other SG.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-18-2016, 09:33 PM
Not trolling at all, check my posts from a page or 2 back. NBA Finals series, give me Wade over any other SG.

I honestly thought you were trolling but to each his own.

5ass
07-18-2016, 10:14 PM
Booker getting overrated.

tredigs
07-19-2016, 01:53 AM
Not trolling at all, check my posts from a page or 2 back. NBA Finals series, give me Wade over any other SG.
Lol so what you're telling me is that Wade is 100% useless?

HandsOnTheWheel
07-19-2016, 02:18 AM
Lol so what you're telling me is that Wade is 100% useless?

Right?

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 03:04 AM
Lol so what you're telling me is that Wade is 100% useless?

I'm telling you he has 3 rings for a reason.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 03:05 AM
Right?

So Wade is useless now that Riley was a dumb *** and ran him out of town?

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 03:06 AM
Tredigs, it's funny I showed you up a few pages back and you were speechless but like to chime in later with a smart *** remark lol.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-19-2016, 03:42 AM
So Wade is useless now that Riley was a dumb *** and ran him out of town?

It's just a nonsensical argument for you to say that Wade is the best SG based on a presumptive upcoming Finals when Bulls won't even sniff the Finals. It won't matter dude.

Clearly I'm not agreeing that he's useless, your argument just lacks a clear basis as well as common logic.

How many games do you think the Bulls will win next year just out of curiosity?

tredigs
07-19-2016, 05:04 AM
Tredigs, it's funny I showed you up a few pages back and you were speechless but like to chime in later with a smart *** remark lol.

If it was not clear then, I don't take your stance on Wade seriously, and won't actually discuss his standing on him with you. Wade was underrated in his peak (I thought he was better than Kobe), but you're just being absolutely ridiculous if you think he's still the premier SG in the NBA. There is no stat or eye test that you could point to that I or anyone else with a modicum of NBA knowledge could just eviscerate. He's MAYBE the 30th best player in the NBA going into next season.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 06:36 AM
In No Order

James
Durant
Curry
AD
Harden
CP3
RWB
Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
KLeonard
LA
Wall
Cousins
Anthony
Green
Klay
Love
Butler
Howard
Irving
George
Horford
Bosh
Lilliard
Ibaka
Conley
Deandre Jordan
Milsap
Eric Bledsoe
Lowry
Towns
Andre Drummond
Favors
Brook Lopez
Iggy
brandon knight
Isiah Thomas

I think all the guys above are better..,.. Now lets add the guys who could be better this year

Teague
Old *** Dirk
Gordan Hayward
Okafor
Noel
Russell
Randle
Clarkson
Wiggins
Dragic
Crowder
bradley
Levine

I doubt he is in the top 40 next year and I might be missing a few guys because this is just off the top of my head :shrug:

He has NO 3 POINT SHOT.... He plays no defense.. He is turning 75 years old and is often injured and is now going to a team with less around him to cover up for said holes.

tredigs
07-19-2016, 06:45 AM
In No Order

James
Durant
Curry
AD
Harden
CP3
RWB
Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
KLeonard
LA
Wall
Cousins
Anthony
Green
Klay
Love
Butler
Howard
Irving
George
Horford
Bosh
Lilliard
Ibaka
Conley
Deandre Jordan
Milsap
Eric Bledsoe
Lowry
Towns
Andre Drummond
Favors
Brook Lopez
Iggy
brandon knight

I think all the guys above are better..,.. Now lets add the guys who could be better this year

Teague
Old *** Dirk
Gordan Hayward
Okafor
Noel
Russell
Randle
Clarkson
Wiggins
Dragic


I doubt he is in the top 40 next year :shrug:

He has NO 3 POINT SHOT.... He plays no defense.. He is turning 75 years old and is often injured and is now going to a team with less around him to cover up for said holes.

Can argue Wade is better than some of those for sure, but if I had to name another SG I'd put him at ~Oladipo level production wise going into next season. 25-40 level seems about right for him. Wade's in his mid 30's and can't shoot, to expect anything more than top-25 from him is unreasonable and unfair.

mightybosstone
07-19-2016, 10:41 AM
the Warriors aren't the only team that has the personnel to make a seven game series a personal nightmare for Harden. But yeah considering that the rockets and warriors have met two years in a row in the playoffs I wouldn't consider the possibility of it happening again statistical anomaly, although you MIGHT be able to convince me otherwise with a better argument as to why its so improbable that the Rockets have to go through either the Warriors or Spurs next season, if they get there at all.
When eight teams make the playoffs in each conference every year, it's not the norm for two teams to meat two years in a row, and it certainly isn't the norm for them to meet three years in a row. If we assume Golden State is the No. 1 seed, the Rockets would likely have to be the 8 seed again for them to meet in the first round. Regardless of what you think of the Rockets offseason acquisitions, the odds are far more likely that they make the playoffs as a seed other than No. 8 just from a sheer probability standpoint. So for them to meet Golden State again, they likely need to make it past the 1st round, which I just don't see happening right now.


relative to his regular season production, Harden has dropped of in three of the past four post-seasons with the Rockets. there's nothing weak about the argument, it's been documented that when teams clamp down on him he can't produce at a level that justifies his inadequacies on defense compared to a player with a more well rounded game like Klay Thompson. Harden is better at one thing, and that's passing. Klay doesn't have great numbers in the post-season either but his impact is felt in a ball game even when his production is low. He's a multi-impact player, you know that even if the production is suffering that he's contributing in ways that aren't accounted for in all the metrics. Harden dominates the ball in an offense that isn't even designed to rebound his misses.
News flash, chief—ALL players with the exception of a handful of all-time greats dropoff from a productions standpoint in the playoffs. It's tougher competition night in and night out. And if you want to talk about postseason dropoff, look at Thompson! Yes, he was great against an overmatched Portland team and had the big Game 6 against OKC, but he just flat out disappeared at times against Cleveland in the Finals. If Harden had done that, PSD would be crucifying the guy.


that would depend on the manner in which they were beat and how that match up went.
Well, Golden State is clearly a better team, so it would probably be a pretty significant beatdown. But you can't blame Harden for that. Overmatched is overmatched, and that's exactly what the Rockets were in the playoffs last year. But, again, you're trying to predict a narrative that hasn't happened and are basing your entire preseason predictions on it.



regular season, yeah.
yeah, we saw how it went last year and the year before.
I fail to see your point here. If anything, you're making my point for me. Despite playing on a historically great team, both Curry and Thompson choked against Cleveland and failed to get the job done. Why aren't you taking that pieces of the narrative into account?



yeah but if one player out plays his match up or rival then everyone throws the stats out the window. thats why we all anonymously agreed that LeBron is better than Curry again. heads up against each other Harden had an average game score of 19.1, Klay 17.0 in 4+ less minutes a game. You're acting like there's some huge gap between them, I just don't see it.
:facepalm: Dude, you just made my point for me! Harden has been better in head-to-head matchups against Thompson! So, if that's the case, why should Thompson be ranked higher?


I guess thats why were have such differing opinions. I'm not as certain that production is the only tool we should use. i know that sounds crazy but there's a lot more to basketball than listing ranks around the numbers. context and individual circumstance are so tied to production, it doesn't necessarily show us what the player is in a hard comparison to another player, more so what he's capable of in a given dynamic compared to the other player in a different more difficult to compare dynamic. Klay and Harden find themselves in such different circumstances I'm not sure if debating production is as useful in this comparison.
But when you're making preseason lists, production is pretty much the only tool you CAN use to justify rankings like this. You can't assume what players are going to do in the postseason because there are way too many unknown variables, and we're like 10 months away from the playoffs at this point. Are there certain pieces of the narrative that we can assume? Sure. You can assume that Klay will probably have a deeper playoff run than Harden. That's fair. But he plays for a much, much better basketball team, and he's far less significant to his team than Harden is.

And you're right in that they find themselves in such different circumstances, that it's hard to judge them. But you know what is indiscriminate and unbiased? The numbers! And that's what I'm going to base my opinion on. Who is going to be more production, more integral to his team and will be considered the better player by season's end. No way in hell will that be Klay Thompson barring some sort of major injury or unforeseen circumstance.

FlashBolt
07-19-2016, 11:39 AM
Wade03, sorry but you gotta somehow realize you're just being a homer man.. Don't be too emotional because he's your favorite player. It is what it is. He'll give you a few good games here and there that shows you he is still elite but he doesn't do it for an entire season consistently. How do you put Wade above Harden/Klay? I have no idea.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:55 AM
It's just a nonsensical argument for you to say that Wade is the best SG based on a presumptive upcoming Finals when Bulls won't even sniff the Finals. It won't matter dude.

Clearly I'm not agreeing that he's useless, your argument just lacks a clear basis as well as common logic.

How many games do you think the Bulls will win next year just out of curiosity?

Go back a few pages to see my argument, no one has been able to prove it wrong.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:58 AM
In No Order

James
Durant
Curry
AD
Harden
CP3
RWB
Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
KLeonard
LA
Wall
Cousins
Anthony
Green
Klay
Love
Butler
Howard
Irving
George
Horford
Bosh
Lilliard
Ibaka
Conley
Deandre Jordan
Milsap
Eric Bledsoe
Lowry
Towns
Andre Drummond
Favors
Brook Lopez
Iggy
brandon knight
Isiah Thomas

I think all the guys above are better..,.. Now lets add the guys who could be better this year

Teague
Old *** Dirk
Gordan Hayward
Okafor
Noel
Russell
Randle
Clarkson
Wiggins
Dragic
Crowder
bradley
Levine

I doubt he is in the top 40 next year and I might be missing a few guys because this is just off the top of my head :shrug:

He has NO 3 POINT SHOT.... He plays no defense.. He is turning 75 years old and is often injured and is now going to a team with less around him to cover up for said holes.

There is no way you can actually believe that.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 12:01 PM
I've seen multiple people put him in their top 3 and I think even a few had him 2nd. This is starting to get off track but if he's borderline top 5 name 5 that played better than him in the playoffs last year. Wade was the clutchest player in the playoffs through 2 rounds in many different categories on offense and defense, that's including all players. I'll even go out on a limb and say he was the best defensive SG in the playoffs last season. Reply however you like but make sure to include the 5 SGs that you think outplayed him in the playoffs last year. You can quote me several times on here saying there will be multiple SGs better than him over the course of a regular season but Wade will almost always outplay them head to head and is the best in the playoffs so that factored into my ranking. Him looking to prove himself after moving and having a chip on his shoulder from the Heat doing him wrong this offseason also factor into my prediction.

Someone prove this to be wrong.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 12:05 PM
Wade03, sorry but you gotta somehow realize you're just being a homer man.. Don't be too emotional because he's your favorite player. It is what it is. He'll give you a few good games here and there that shows you he is still elite but he doesn't do it for an entire season consistently. How do you put Wade above Harden/Klay? I have no idea.

That's basically what I said. They will put up better numbers over the course of a season but Wade will usually always outplay them in head to head match ups and was definitely better than both in the playoffs. Wade doesn't shrink in big moments like Klay. Give me the guy you can count on to show up. The only argument you can have as to Wade not showing up is the 2014 finals but we all know this guy was playing on one leg and it was very noticeable, pair that in with the fact that the Spurs were shooting like 70% at halftime in multiple games and there's no chance of winning anyways.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 12:09 PM
I value the playoffs far more than regular season. Didn't the playoffs end the Curry is better than LeBron talks? I don't really see how it's much different here.

Also more than most I just want to point out how dumb that post was, you said in another thread that if the Heat were healthy last year they would've beat the Cavs. The reason you gave for the Heat beating the Cavs was that Wade would dominate and will them past the Cavs and you follow that by saying Wade isn't good. So you're telling me Wade would've went toe to toe with LeBron and outplayed him to get to the finals last year but he isn't that good? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

FlashBolt
07-19-2016, 12:09 PM
Someone prove this to be wrong.

1) Charlotte doesn't have any great SG and DeRozan was playing like horse-**** even before the Miami series. Great, he played "amazing" defense against two players who you don't even have to play defense against.
2) I haven't seen anyone claiming he wasn't top five but I've seen you proclaim him as the best SG and someone saying he isn't. For simple reasons, he isn't better than Harden or Klay and if you need someone to explain that to you, then you are just quite simply a homer. Harden/Klay/Butler are the three best shooting guards in the NBA and everyone else are not even close. I have Wade third for the upcoming season simply because Butler is a SF but there really isn't much to be discussed in terms of SG. It's the weakest position in the league and being the third best SG might not even get you to the top 20 list of NBA players. That's just the reality.

And why is it that playoffs is the only thing you take into account for? Again, he played gainst two SG's in the conference that aren't great defenders and one of them couldn't even hit a shot regardless of who was guarding him. It's not really solid evidence. Wade didn't make the playoffs last season but I bet you still had him as your best SG, no? So what's with this "evidence" you are abiding to?

FlashBolt
07-19-2016, 12:18 PM
That's basically what I said. They will put up better numbers over the course of a season but Wade will usually always outplay them in head to head match ups and was definitely better than both in the playoffs. Wade doesn't shrink in big moments like Klay. Give me the guy you can count on to show up. The only argument you can have as to Wade not showing up is the 2014 finals but we all know this guy was playing on one leg and it was very noticeable, pair that in with the fact that the Spurs were shooting like 70% at halftime in multiple games and there's no chance of winning anyways.

Playing better in the playoffs but then trying to discount the regular season? You are just using confirmation bias. Accepting the info that makes your argument look great but then discounting the info that makes it look not-so great. Why bother debating with someone who just says "oh no, that doesn't matter but this does." Do you really expect a reasonable discussion when you try and discredit 82 games in a season?


I value the playoffs far more than regular season. Didn't the playoffs end the Curry is better than LeBron talks? I don't really see how it's much different here.

Also more than most I just want to point out how dumb that post was, you said in another thread that if the Heat were healthy last year they would've beat the Cavs. The reason you gave for the Heat beating the Cavs was that Wade would dominate and will them past the Cavs and you follow that by saying Wade isn't good. So you're telling me Wade would've went toe to toe with LeBron and outplayed him to get to the finals last year but he isn't that good? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

The difference is that debate was always close. Curry vs LeBron is a close debate in which Curry put up the greatest offensive season and LeBron was still putting up an elite season but we all knew that he was coasting in the regular season. Playoffs further established that because Curry just sucked and LeBron turned into God. Compare that with Wade to Klay or Harden and there really is no comparison. Klay and Harden are better players, period. I don't even want to go over why they are. I think anyone who isn't a homer will see that. In the playoffs or regular season, Wade did nothing historic or spectacular. He was just a good player. You keep applauding Wade for his stellar playoffs but his playoff stats compared with his regular season stats are borderline similar PER36. There isn't a huge disparity to say he "dominated" at all. LeBron on the other hand has that leverage and argument because he actually took his game to another level.

I never said Heat would beat the Cavs.. LMAO. And I certainly never said it was because "Wade will dominate them." LMFAO, you are just making stuff up now. What I said was that if healthy, Heat match up well against Cleveland because they have an interior presence in Whiteside who will absolutely destroy Cleveland (if Bismack can, Whiteside will for sure do it to Cavs), Bosh and Love is a wash, Dragic is good enough to do something, and the addition of veteran and proven players in Joe Johnson/Deng make them a formidable team. They aren't healthy and I surely never said what you are saying I said.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 12:45 PM
Playing better in the playoffs but then trying to discount the regular season? You are just using confirmation bias. Accepting the info that makes your argument look great but then discounting the info that makes it look not-so great. Why bother debating with someone who just says "oh no, that doesn't matter but this does." Do you really expect a reasonable discussion when you try and discredit 82 games in a season?



The difference is that debate was always close. Curry vs LeBron is a close debate in which Curry put up the greatest offensive season and LeBron was still putting up an elite season but we all knew that he was coasting in the regular season. Playoffs further established that because Curry just sucked and LeBron turned into God. Compare that with Wade to Klay or Harden and there really is no comparison. Klay and Harden are better players, period. I don't even want to go over why they are. I think anyone who isn't a homer will see that. In the playoffs or regular season, Wade did nothing historic or spectacular. He was just a good player. You keep applauding Wade for his stellar playoffs but his playoff stats compared with his regular season stats are borderline similar PER36. There isn't a huge disparity to say he "dominated" at all. LeBron on the other hand has that leverage and argument because he actually took his game to another level.

I never said Heat would beat the Cavs.. LMAO. And I certainly never said it was because "Wade will dominate them." LMFAO, you are just making stuff up now. What I said was that if healthy, Heat match up well against Cleveland because they have an interior presence in Whiteside who will absolutely destroy Cleveland (if Bismack can, Whiteside will for sure do it to Cavs), Bosh and Love is a wash, Dragic is good enough to do something, and the addition of veteran and proven players in Joe Johnson/Deng make them a formidable team. They aren't healthy and I surely never said what you are saying I said.

Did you miss the part where I said "more than most" as in the guy who said the Heat would be the Cavs because of Wade but Wade isn't good?

Take Harden and Klay all you want but if you want championships give me Wade. Klay shrinks on the big stage just like Curry and Harden may be a worse defender than Harden. Wade is clutcher than both, both regular season and playoffs prove that. Wade does far more offensively than Klay and is better than both defensively when it matters.

I have a big job interview I'm getting ready for but I will have a mor in depth response, hopefully by tonight.

FlashBolt
07-19-2016, 12:50 PM
Did you miss the part where I said "more than most" as in the guy who said the Heat would be the Cavs because of Wade but Wade isn't good?

Take Harden and Klay all you want but if you want championships give me Wade. Klay shrinks on the big stage just like Curry and Harden may be a worse defender than Harden. Wade is clutcher than both, both regular season and playoffs prove that. Wade does far more offensively than Klay and is better than both defensively when it matters.

I have a big job interview I'm getting ready for but I will have a mor in depth response, hopefully by tonight.

Well when you put "more than most", you can't really expect anyone to know you're referring to a particular individual. His name isn't in that specific form.

You are just kidding yourself. Saying Wade is better defensively when it matters is just jaw-dropping laughable. Saying Wade is clutcher than both doesn't really prove much when you're talking a span of a few games compared to the regular season. If you want championships, give you Wade? Okay, so where are those championships Wade has collected the past few seasons since LeBron has been gone? Let's be honest here, Wade hasn't been elite since like 4-5 years ago. He's been just a good player. Probably every team out there would take Harden or Klay over Wade.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 01:16 PM
Well when you put "more than most", you can't really expect anyone to know you're referring to a particular individual. His name isn't in that specific form.

You are just kidding yourself. Saying Wade is better defensively when it matters is just jaw-dropping laughable. Saying Wade is clutcher than both doesn't really prove much when you're talking a span of a few games compared to the regular season. If you want championships, give you Wade? Okay, so where are those championships Wade has collected the past few seasons since LeBron has been gone? Let's be honest here, Wade hasn't been elite since like 4-5 years ago. He's been just a good player. Probably every team out there would take Harden or Klay over Wade.

Wade was clutcher than both in the regular season as well.

tredigs
07-19-2016, 05:16 PM
He played two playoff series against weak teams, who cares. Wasn't even the best player in the Charlotte series. I'd give that to Deng or Whiteside. Not a very strong argument you're making.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 08:37 PM
Yes wade is better in the playoffs some.... Yes I had the heat over the cavs IF HEALTHY.... Because I am not a huge believer in the cavs... Lebron has the ability to go god like and if he doesnt they dont beat the warriors/spurs or that healthy heat team last year because MATCHUPS.... I have said for example the hawks who got swept by the cavs would fair better against the warriors/thunder/spurs than the cavs because MATCHUPS.... I had the thunder as the 2nd best team but wanted the thunder to be the warriors because i figured the cavs would route the thunder because MATCHUPS.... Wade does turn it on in the playoffs but this isnt prime wade... He was good this year in 2 series but had a ton of help... Last year he wasnt good if i recall in the playoffs.... He is now yet another year older with less talent around him and isnt even a top 30 player in my opinion... I think next year he will be between the 30-45 range... There is no argument at all for him above klay/harden or him being a top 20 player... There just isnt. Playoffs matter BUT THEY DONT WIPE AWAY EVERYTHING ELSE.... We dont put lebron over curry just because of the playoffs.... Lebron is still a top 5 regular season player while being the best playoff performer at a historic level year after year... Its close between him and curry... Wade doesnt get that nudge for the playoffs because HE ISNT THAT LEGENDARY IN THE PLAYOFFS AND BECAUSE IT ISNT AS CLOSE BETWEEN HIM AND HARDEN AND KLAY AS IT IS OVERALL WITH CURRY/LEBRON.

lol, please
07-19-2016, 08:40 PM
I value the playoffs far more than regular season. Didn't the playoffs end the Curry is better than LeBron talks? I don't really see how it's much different here.

Also more than most I just want to point out how dumb that post was, you said in another thread that if the Heat were healthy last year they would've beat the Cavs. The reason you gave for the Heat beating the Cavs was that Wade would dominate and will them past the Cavs and you follow that by saying Wade isn't good. So you're telling me Wade would've went toe to toe with LeBron and outplayed him to get to the finals last year but he isn't that good? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Only to those with an agenda, or prisoners of the moment.

The facts: The playoffs are a small sample size alone. Curry has been a more dominant player over the last few seasons.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 08:51 PM
Only to those with an agenda, or prisoners of the moment.

The facts: The playoffs are a small sample size alone. Curry has been a more dominant player over the last few seasons.

Example A of why I talk in caps

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 08:51 PM
Only to those with an agenda, or prisoners of the moment.

The facts: The playoffs are a small sample size alone. Curry has been a more dominant player over the last few seasons.

There's absolutely no argument for anyone being better than LeBron.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 08:53 PM
Yes wade is better in the playoffs some.... Yes I had the heat over the cavs IF HEALTHY.... Because I am not a huge believer in the cavs... Lebron has the ability to go god like and if he doesnt they dont beat the warriors/spurs or that healthy heat team last year because MATCHUPS.... I have said for example the hawks who got swept by the cavs would fair better against the warriors/thunder/spurs than the cavs because MATCHUPS.... I had the thunder as the 2nd best team but wanted the thunder to be the warriors because i figured the cavs would route the thunder because MATCHUPS.... Wade does turn it on in the playoffs but this isnt prime wade... He was good this year in 2 series but had a ton of help... Last year he wasnt good if i recall in the playoffs.... He is now yet another year older with less talent around him and isnt even a top 30 player in my opinion... I think next year he will be between the 30-45 range... There is no argument at all for him above klay/harden or him being a top 20 player... There just isnt. Playoffs matter BUT THEY DONT WIPE AWAY EVERYTHING ELSE.... We dont put lebron over curry just because of the playoffs.... Lebron is still a top 5 regular season player while being the best playoff performer at a historic level year after year... Its close between him and curry... Wade doesnt get that nudge for the playoffs because HE ISNT THAT LEGENDARY IN THE PLAYOFFS AND BECAUSE IT ISNT AS CLOSE BETWEEN HIM AND HARDEN AND KLAY AS IT IS OVERALL WITH CURRY/LEBRON.

Wade IS LEGENDARY in the playoffs. Let's put this as simple as possible. You said Wade isn't good but he would be the reason they beat the Cavs. If that's the case you think he would play toe to toe with LeBron which means he's pretty ****ing good.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 08:56 PM
"Wade doesn't play defense"



DBPM for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Andre Roberson
3. Monta Ellis
4. Victor Oladipo
5. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
6. Kyle Korver
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Courtney Lee
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Avery Bradley

DWS for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Monta Ellis
3. Kyle Korver
4. Avery Bradley
5. Victor Oladipo
6. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Dwyane Wade
9. James Harden
10. Klay Thompson

DRtg for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Monta Ellis
3. Kyle Korver
4. Tony Allen
5. Dwyane Wade
6. JR Smith
7. Andre Roberson
8. Victor Oladipo
9. Jimmy Butler
10. Avery Bradley

He's also one of the best isolation defenders as a SG or maybe even regardless of position but I don't remember which one it was. Someone who is better at finding those kind of stats feel free to look it up and inform us.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 09:00 PM
Wade IS LEGENDARY in the playoffs. Let's put this as simple as possible. You said Wade isn't good but he would be the reason they beat the Cavs. If that's the case you think he would play toe to toe with LeBron which means he's pretty ****ing good.

Now he isnt legendary in the playoffs NOW.... In his prime again YES.... He is 35 and the last 2 years has been far from legendary in the playoffs. WTF are you talking about toe to toe? You do realize there is more than lebron/wade on those 2 teams right? Did Lebron and curry play toe to toe last year when the warriors won or this year when the cavs won? Wtf kind of argument is this toe to toe ****? I had the cavs losing because of their depth and inside defense and lebron likely settling for his jumper and so on down the list.... Wade being good in that series would help but there was a ton of factors into it... My god you only see wade and nothing else dude.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 09:02 PM
"Wade doesn't play defense"



DBPM for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Andre Roberson
3. Monta Ellis
4. Victor Oladipo
5. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
6. Kyle Korver
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Courtney Lee
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Avery Bradley

DWS for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Monta Ellis
3. Kyle Korver
4. Avery Bradley
5. Victor Oladipo
6. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
7. Jimmy Butler
8. Dwyane Wade
9. James Harden
10. Klay Thompson

DRtg for starting SG
1. Danny Green
2. Monta Ellis
3. Kyle Korver
4. Tony Allen
5. Dwyane Wade
6. JR Smith
7. Andre Roberson
8. Victor Oladipo
9. Jimmy Butler
10. Avery Bradley

He's also one of the best isolation defenders as a SG or maybe even regardless of position but I don't remember which one it was. Someone who is better at finding those kind of stats feel free to look it up and inform us.

You just gave me stats that shows Kyle Korver is a better defender than wade.... Really think about that then think about how awful suspect the SG position is right now compared to other positions.

Do you think Korver is a better defender than butler?

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 09:04 PM
You just gave me stats that shows Kyle Korver is a better defender than wade.... Really think about that then think about how awful suspect the SG position is right now compared to other positions.

Do you think Korver is a better defender than butler?


We're talking about shooting guards right now aren't we?

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 09:09 PM
We're talking about shooting guards right now aren't we?

Do SG only defend SG? I said he isnt a top 5 SG nor a top 30 overall player :shrug:

Guess both... But again do you think korver is a better defender than butler?

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 09:10 PM
Lol Why am I even arguing... NVM lets just drop it. I like you when it comes to most discussions not involving wade or the heat so I am just gonna stay out of this because we will never change your mind.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 09:13 PM
Wade was a top 5 player in the playoffs last year at 34. Legendary. You have said the Heat would win because of Wade, you said this before not me. Now you're trying to change your words.

DanG
07-19-2016, 09:18 PM
Harden played EVERY game last season and 38MPG. Put up 29/6/8 on 44%.

Wade's body would break down and his numbers would look horrible if he did that.

Harden is a superstar #1 option
Wade's a #2 option who often takes nights off

Wade vs Harden head to head 15-16:

Wade 18/3/6 on 35%
Harden 21/5/10 on 35%

Rondo
Harden
Butler
Mirotic
Lopez

Rondo
Wade
Butler
Mirotic
Lopez

not even a question which team is more lethal.

DanG
07-19-2016, 09:26 PM
Wade Per 36 in the playoffs: 23/6/5 on 47% PER 22.3 TS% .532 against Courtney Lee/CHA & DDR/TOR
Harden Per 36 in the playoffs: 25/5/7 on 41% PER 21.8 TS% .555 against Klay Thompson/GSW

Not even sure Wade played better in the playoffs.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 09:44 PM
Wade Per 36 in the playoffs: 23/6/5 on 47% PER 22.3 TS% .532 against Courtney Lee/CHA & DDR/TOR
Harden Per 36 in the playoffs: 25/5/7 on 41% PER 21.8 TS% .555 against Klay Thompson/GSW

Not even sure Wade played better in the playoffs.

Wade was against Batum who is a good long defender. Factor in Wades defense, clutch offense and defense, and the fact that he actually won some games and he was better than Harden.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 09:45 PM
Also was against Carrol when they played the raptors.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 10:09 PM
Wade was a top 5 player in the playoffs last year at 34. Legendary. You have said the Heat would win because of Wade, you said this before not me. Now you're trying to change your words.

Are you really gonna make me look up every single player in the playoffs to try and prove this wrong considering he averaged 18/4/4 with almost 3 turnovers per game on 50 percent shooting? The year before last he wasnt that good... Id say the 2014/15 season he was alright and this past season he was alright to good but he has not been great in years. God damn it you are gonna make me look up every single player to see where he was

Without even looking past 1 player Bosh was better 2013/2014 season.


So far I have looked up 2 players and all 2 have been better than wade in the playoffs in 2013/2014 season.... I havent even looked up durant/westy/lebron and so on.

Took off manu he wasnt better

Add Duncan to this list because he was worlds better

Add Leonard to this list because he was better

James Of course

PG was better

So far

Bosh
Duncan
Parker
KLeonard
James
PG
Durant
Westy

Did you just go by top 5 heat players or something? Because again I am not sure he was in the top 10

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 10:19 PM
Are you really gonna make me look up every single player in the playoffs to try and prove this wrong considering he averaged 18/4/4 with almost 3 turnovers per game on 50 percent shooting? The year before last he wasnt that good... Id say the 2014/15 season he was alright and this past season he was alright to good but he has not been great in years. God damn it you are gonna make me look up every single player to see where he was

Without even looking past 1 player Bosh was better 2013/2014 season.


So far I have looked up 2 players and all 2 have been better than wade in the playoffs in 2013/2014 season.... I havent even looked up durant/westy/lebron and so on.

Took off manu he wasnt better

Add Duncan to this list because he was worlds better

So far

Bosh
Duncan
Parker were all better

What? Why are you talking about 2013-2014 when Wade was playing on one leg? Bosh wasn't better than Wade. Why in the world are you talking about the playoffs that year.

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 10:26 PM
What? Why are you talking about 2013-2014 when Wade was playing on one leg? Bosh wasn't better than Wade. Why in the world are you talking about the playoffs that year.

Da *** you mean? You said 2 seasons ago... This past season plus the next season he played would be 2013/14 because the heat didnt make the playoffs in 14/15

Ah ok you said this past season... I said he was good this past season and mediocre 2 seasons ago and hasnt been great in the playoffs in sometime :shrug:

More-Than-Most
07-19-2016, 10:30 PM
LOL wait... WAIT... You think he was top 5 this past season? BRO.... come on. Without looking you are telling me he was better than any of these guys... James/Durant/westy/Klay/Curry/Green/Leonard/Kyrie... Curry and klay no doubt did not play that great but they were still better than wade

Right now try and make an argument that he was top 5 ahead of any of those guys... I will wait... I could add other guys as well... WTF is this.

Klay was just as good as wade offensively but klay and curry had to play 2 of the better defensive teams in basketball in the cavs/Thunder.... On top of being a great 2 way player. What argument is there over any of these guys when you factor in competition/2 way play?

wade was def a top 10 player i believe... But sorry not top 5... Much better than the previous years but he only faced 1 team worth a damn.

DanG
07-19-2016, 10:45 PM
LeBron James
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Russell Westbrook

Were so easily better than Wade in the playoffs. Thats 5.

Plus another 5 who were better:

Draymond Green
Stephen Curry
LaMarcus Aldridge
Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant

Not even worth mentioning all the players.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:05 PM
LeBron James
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Russell Westbrook

Were so easily better than Wade in the playoffs. Thats 5.

Plus another 5 who were better:

Draymond Green
Stephen Curry
LaMarcus Aldridge
Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant

Not even worth mentioning all the players.

No lol. Give me a little bit and I'll reply.

lol, please
07-19-2016, 11:30 PM
There's absolutely no argument for anyone being better than LeBron.

Except that there is, and we have made it several times.

A more accurate statement would have been: "there's absolutely no argument for Wade being better than Klay".

Another more accurate statement would have been: "there's absolutely no argument for Wade being a top 5 player in 2014-15."

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:39 PM
Except that there is, and we have made it several times.

A more accurate statement would have been: "there's absolutely no argument for Wade being better than Klay".

Another more accurate statement would have been: "there's absolutely no argument for Wade being a top 5 player in 2014-15."

No there is absolutely nobody on LeBrons level. Curry is a choke artist. I figured you Warriors fans would calm down a little after LeBron put you guys in your place.

JordansBulls
07-19-2016, 11:48 PM
I like this list it is spot on

SG:

1. Wade
2. Klay
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:57 PM
Wade average 21-6-4-47FG%-52% from 3-1-1. He also did this with elite defense. Also factor in how different his numbers would've been had there not been 5 or 6 blowout games.

Kawhi and LaMarcus? I didn't hear a single thing about either one of them other than Aldridge having 2 good games. Do we even count the Memphis series where they were playing the 3rd unit?

Steph had 2 good games so he was better than Wade? Klay shrunk on the biggest stage but he was also somehow better than Wade?

Also people saying Charlotte isn't good, I believe they were a top 3 team to close out the season and were tied for the 3rd seed in the east.

Wade was the clutchest player in the playoffs through 2 rounds but you guys are naming guys who choked under pressure above him.

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Also I can't forget to mention that the guy who can't shoot shot 52% from 3 in the playoffs with most of them being clutch very tough 3s off the dribble. That was top 5 or 3 for the playoffs. He said he's working on his 3 this summer so that was also a factor going into my prediction.

Hmmmmmmm.....feel like I'm forgetting some things but maybe I'll remember later.

LeBron
Kyrie

Those were the 2 best players in the playoffs. The next 3 are:

Wade
Russell
KD

Those 3 are in no order as I have a hard time determining who was better since Durant and Westbrook put up pretty crazy numbers but choked away a 3-1 lead and were both terrible in those remaining 3 games.

WaDe03
07-19-2016, 11:58 PM
I like this list it is spot on

SG:

1. Wade
2. Klay
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

Thanks! Wade could average 40-10-10 and wouldn't get any credit because he's 34. Because of his age he's automatically out of any discussion.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 12:15 AM
holy **** clutch points LOL

Going up 2-0 in the first seconds of the game -clutch-

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 12:16 AM
I like this list it is spot on

SG:

1. Wade
2. Klay
3. Harden
4. Derozan
5. McCollum

lol because wade is a bull now you would.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 12:18 AM
holy **** clutch points LOL

Going up 2-0 in the first seconds of the game -clutch-

Being clutch doesn't matter? Typical response of someone who can't prove someone's points wrong.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 12:22 AM
Gerald Henderson isn't good anymore but he'll be the reason why the Sixers beat the Warriors in the finals this year.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 12:36 AM
Wade vs. Harden last year 1-1

Wade vs. Klay last year 2-0

Wade vs. Butler last year 2-0

This is just straight head to head matchups, who outplayed who. Pretty much right on par with what I've been saying the whole time. Those guys will put up better numbers over the course of the season but Wade will almost always outplay them head to head and will play better in the playoffs. There has yet been somebody who can prove this theory wrong.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 12:59 AM
Wade vs. Harden last year 1-1

Wade vs. Klay last year 2-0

Wade vs. Butler last year 2-0

This is just straight head to head matchups, who outplayed who. Pretty much right on par with what I've been saying the whole time. Those guys will put up better numbers over the course of the season but Wade will almost always outplay them head to head and will play better in the playoffs. There has yet been somebody who can prove this theory wrong.

did the nba allow them to play 1v1? jesus christ man.

Russell beat the warriors........ russell------------>Curry :nod:

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 01:10 AM
did the nba allow them to play 1v1? jesus christ man.

Russell beat the warriors........ russell------------>Curry :nod:

This isn't team W-L this is who outplayed who. Wade and Harden cancelled each other out. Wade outplayed Klay both games to the point where they switched Klay off of Wade in the first quarter because Wade was abusing him from everywhere on the court giving him a quick 12 points to start the first quarter. Butler and Wade were close one game but Wade got the nod on that one and Wade dominated him the other game. I'm just proving my point in the theory I continuously use that no one seems to understand so I'll repeat it again. They may put up better numbers over the course of a season but Wade will almost always win the head to head matchup and will be better in the playoffs. Every part of that theory has been proved to be right by me tonight.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 01:12 AM
I find it hilarious you weren't able to come up with an argument to prove me wrong. When I started going into detail you started to see where I was right, MTM.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 01:12 AM
This isn't team W-L this is who outplayed who. Wade and Harden cancelled each other out. Wade outplayed Klay both games to the point where they switched Klay off of Wade in the first quarter because Wade was abusing him from everywhere on the court giving him a quick 12 points to start the first quarter. Butler and Wade were close one game but Wade got the nod on that one and Wade dominated him the other game. I'm just proving my point in the theory I continuously use that no one seems to understand so I'll repeat it again. They may put up better numbers over the course of a season but Wade will almost always win the head to head matchup and will be better in the playoffs. Every part of that theory has been proved to be right by me tonight.

and again...

http://www.nba.com/games/20160306/GSWLAL/gameinfo.html?ls=eref:google:1b:post

Head to head in one ****ing game russell outplayed curry... So Russell---------->curry?

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 01:16 AM
I find it hilarious you weren't able to come up with an argument to prove me wrong. When I started going into detail you started to see where I was right, MTM.

because its pointless... You say he did this this and this but imagin if there werent blow outs? Then you say Khawi and LA are basically irrelevent EVEN THOUGH ALL STATS SHOW THEY ARE BETTER because you didnt hear about them but in 2 games lmfao... Then you disregaurd that all these players mentioned who played against the cavs or warriors or spurs or thunder or clippers and not the charlotte ****ing hornets and the raptors... I think the raptors are good though but they arent the cavs/warriors/spurs/thunder on defense.... None of this helps your agenda so you ignore all of it and rinse repeat. You arent bringing facts.... You are bringing certain things that help tell a small area and disregaurd things that hurt your agenda like I mentioned above.

You try to bring up clutch stats but negate the fact that they were the heavy favorites and got forced to a game 7 against the damn hornets and wade got bailed out in that game 7 by a goran ****ing dragic but this clutch or lack there of doesnt fit your agenda right?

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 01:21 AM
and again...

http://www.nba.com/games/20160306/GSWLAL/gameinfo.html?ls=eref:google:1b:post

Head to head in one ****ing game russell outplayed curry... So Russell---------->curry?

And again, you still can't come up with a valid argument. Did Russell outplay Curry every time they played this year? What was it 4 games? Did he outplay Curry in the playoffs? Please point out what part of my theory isn't correct.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 01:27 AM
because its pointless... You say he did this this and this but imagin if there werent blow outs? Then you say Khawi and LA are basically irrelevent EVEN THOUGH ALL STATS SHOW THEY ARE BETTER because you didnt hear about them but in 2 games lmfao... Then you disregaurd that all these players mentioned who played against the cavs or warriors or spurs or thunder or clippers and not the charlotte ****ing hornets and the raptors... I think the raptors are good though but they arent the cavs/warriors/spurs/thunder on defense.... None of this helps your agenda so you ignore all of it and rinse repeat. You arent bringing facts.... You are bringing certain things that help tell a small area and disregaurd things that hurt your agenda like I mentioned above.

You try to bring up clutch stats but negate the fact that they were the heavy favorites and got forced to a game 7 against the damn hornets and wade got bailed out in that game 7 by a goran ****ing dragic but this clutch or lack there of doesnt fit your agenda right?

Again, Kawhi and Aldridge were not better than Wade in the playoffs and the Hornets were one of the best teams in the league to close out the season. Wade got bailed out in a 30+ point blowout in game 7? Just stop man you are bringing nothing to the table with this debate but a bunch of nonsense while I'm stating facts and backing up my facts. You're saying Wade isn't Clutch because they won game 7 by 30+ lol. Nothing in that scenario requires playing in a clutch moment. You have yet to give a good argument. You guys want to discredit Wade because he's 34 and played hurt a few seasons back and now I'm bringing facts to the table and backing them up with evidence and now you're shook.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 01:47 AM
Again, Kawhi and Aldridge were not better than Wade in the playoffs and the Hornets were one of the best teams in the league to close out the season. Wade got bailed out in a 30+ point blowout in game 7? Just stop man you are bringing nothing to the table with this debate but a bunch of nonsense while I'm stating facts and backing up my facts. You're saying Wade isn't Clutch because they won game 7 by 30+ lol. Nothing in that scenario requires playing in a clutch moment. You have yet to give a good argument. You guys want to discredit Wade because he's 34 and played hurt a few seasons back and now I'm bringing facts to the table and backing them up with evidence and now you're shook.

Making my point for me about you picking and choosing to fit your agenda and ignoring facts. Nobody takes you serious when it comes to wade. No point continuing. Like I said you are a good poster but just completely bias for wade which is fine.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 01:51 AM
Making my point for me about you picking and choosing to fit your agenda and ignoring facts. Nobody takes you serious when it comes to wade. No point continuing. Like I said you are a good poster but just completely bias for wade which is fine.

You just bolded a fact though. They were also tied for 3rd in the East. I may be biased but I'm backing my claim with multiple facts that are supported by evidence. People just want to act like Wade is done when it's not the truth and in fact he is still a hell of a player. Just adds to the fact that he is one of the most under appreciated and underrated superstars of all time.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-20-2016, 02:14 AM
Holy **** 3 pages debating over Wade[emoji23]

WaDe03 I'm one of the biggest Bulls fans on here, but I think you can stop arguing now. He's not getting any younger and his game will continue to diminish. Let's just see how he adjusts to playing with Rondo/Butler and all the new teammates he's gonna have. Hopefully he'll get enough rest during the regular season to preserve himself for couple more playoff runs.

More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 03:01 AM
Holy **** 3 pages debating over Wade[emoji23]

WaDe03 I'm one of the biggest Bulls fans on here, but I think you can stop arguing now. He's not getting any younger and his game will continue to diminish. Let's just see how he adjusts to playing with Rondo/Butler and all the new teammates he's gonna have. Hopefully he'll get enough rest during the regular season to preserve himself for couple more playoff runs.

Hes had a beastly career. Dudes amazing... I would never argue against his career and think for years he was underrated.... Now he is vastly overrated :shrug:

Example this dude gets talked about like he is one of the best players in the nba when he is mediocre-good at this point... Someone like Dirk who was better this past season... has gotten no love.

The amazing thing is NOBODY hates harden more than me but someone actually thinks wade is better? That is insane to me

HandsOnTheWheel
07-20-2016, 04:15 AM
This is surprisingly entertaining.

DanG
07-20-2016, 07:25 AM
You just bolded a fact though. They were also tied for 3rd in the East. I may be biased but I'm backing my claim with multiple facts that are supported by evidence. People just want to act like Wade is done when it's not the truth and in fact he is still a hell of a player. Just adds to the fact that he is one of the most under appreciated and underrated superstars of all time.

You can make a case for multiple players if you cherry-pick your arguments. I'm sure you would argue the exact opposite had Wade played great in the regular season and bad in the playoffs.

Wade playing 'elite' defense in the playoffs isn't a fact. If he did I'd like to see some stats where he's next to players like Kawhi Leonard and Tony Allen, they're elite.

Harden is a better playmaker, scorer, rebounder, shooter. These are FACTS.

Wade's a better defender... that's about it... and his defense isn't special.

Harden is far more efficient... I'm glad we can finally see how efficient Wade actually is now that LeBron is gone.

Injured Wade's TS% last two seasons with LeBron: .588, .571
Healthy Wade's TS% last two seasons without LeBron: .534, .517

Oh I remember the arguments back in 12-13 "Wade is better than Kobe, look his numbers are so good and he's so efficient" ... lol not even close.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 11:01 AM
Wades been better than Kobe for years so idk why he's even been brought up. Still no one has yet to prove my theory wrong. I hear about age and all that but still see no arguments here. I'm bringing facts to my argument and supporting my facts with evidence.

Some prove this theory wrong that I have provided evidence with......Harden Klay and Butler may put up better numbers over the course of the season but Wade will almost always win the head to head matchup and will outplay them in the playoffs. Because of this I'm taking Wade. Give me the guy who will show up in the biggest moments instead of shrinking under pressure like Klay. Someone prove that theory wrong.

FlashBolt
07-20-2016, 03:20 PM
Sorry Bulls fans... you will be stuck with Wade03 unfortunately.. Let's just say this: No GM out there will trade Butler/Klay/Harden for Wade.. and if you think so, you are as good of a GM as Vlade Divac.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 04:14 PM
Sorry Bulls fans... you will be stuck with Wade03 unfortunately.. Let's just say this: No GM out there will trade Butler/Klay/Harden for Wade.. and if you think so, you are as good of a GM as Vlade Divac.

This is hilarious coming from you. Where did I ever say I wouldn't trade Wade for them? Of course you do that because they're all like 6 years younger than him but that has nothing to do with who you would take for next season. Ignorant posts like these crack me up when I have yet to be proven wrong by anyone on here about this topic. Feel free to try and prove this statement wrong, Butler, Harden, and Klay may put up Niger numbers over the course of a season but Wade will almost always win the head to head matchup and will outplay them all in the playoffs when everyone is playing their hardest. All I'm asking for is for someone to prove this statement wrong and no one has been able to do it yet. It's funny to me that the tone has changed since I started providing facts.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 04:21 PM
You guys seem to forget this is a thread for next year predictions. I'm not bashing anyone claiming Middleton Oladipo Beal, etc. will be better than Wade next year although I strongly disagree but If anyone claiming that thinks they can prove it then feel free. This isn't a thread about who would you take for the next 5 years or who's the oldest it's simply predictions. I've given my theory as to why I still believe he's the best to go along with him working on his 3 this summer and being extra motivated to prove himself next season after the Heat did him dirty.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2016, 05:27 PM
You guys seem to forget this is a thread for next year predictions. I'm not bashing anyone claiming Middleton Oladipo Beal, etc. will be better than Wade next year although I strongly disagree but If anyone claiming that thinks they can prove it then feel free. This isn't a thread about who would you take for the next 5 years or who's the oldest it's simply predictions. I've given my theory as to why I still believe he's the best to go along with him working on his 3 this summer and being extra motivated to prove himself next season after the Heat did him dirty.

how can anyone prove what hasn't even happened yet?

Wade hasn't been the best SG in the game for a handful of years now. Hell his last year of elite production was probably 11-12', and his playoffs that next year, he looked like Lt Dan

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 06:13 PM
how can anyone prove what hasn't even happened yet?

Wade hasn't been the best SG in the game for a handful of years now. Hell his last year of elite production was probably 11-12', and his playoffs that next year, he looked like Lt Dan

People were bashing me for my prediction so I gave my facts as to why I believe in my prediction and backed it with evidence and I haven't had anyone counter what I say with even a decent argument. That's fine if he looked like LT. Dan because he won his 3rd ring while putting up better numbers than Klay has these last 2 finals and was dominant in games 4-5-7 of that series so I'll take it. Yes he was noticeably injured but he did what all time great do and showed up when it was all on the line.

Sure we can say Wade is 34 but that doesn't change the fact that he outplayed those guys head to head and was better than each in the playoffs. We can say Wade looked like Lt. Dan in the finals which has nothing to do with right now but Wade looking like LT. Dan has done more than anything Klay has in his last 2 finals series.

It's funny too because I keep finding multiple things to prove my point about a guy way past his prime that is 34 years old and he's still at the top of his position in my eyes and top 3 in many others eyes. Meanwhile these guys are supposed to be in their prime. Wade in his prime today would make the SG position look even worse because of how huge the gap would be between him and the 2nd best guy.

HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 06:41 PM
That's basically what I said. They will put up better numbers over the course of a season but Wade will usually always outplay them in head to head match ups and was definitely better than both in the playoffs. Wade doesn't shrink in big moments like Klay. Give me the guy you can count on to show up. The only argument you can have as to Wade not showing up is the 2014 finals but we all know this guy was playing on one leg and it was very noticeable, pair that in with the fact that the Spurs were shooting like 70% at halftime in multiple games and there's no chance of winning anyways.
So Curry playing on one leg disqualifies him but not Wade???

I value the playoffs far more than regular season. Didn't the playoffs end the Curry is better than LeBron talks? I don't really see how it's much different here.

Also more than most I just want to point out how dumb that post was, you said in another thread that if the Heat were healthy last year they would've beat the Cavs. The reason you gave for the Heat beating the Cavs was that Wade would dominate and will them past the Cavs and you follow that by saying Wade isn't good. So you're telling me Wade would've went toe to toe with LeBron and outplayed him to get to the finals last year but he isn't that good? That makes absolutely no sense at all.


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HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 06:43 PM
Don't call out lol if you're going to contradict yourself in back 2 back post bud.

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More-Than-Most
07-20-2016, 07:04 PM
Don't call out lol if you're going to contradict yourself in back 2 back post bud.

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lol Lol has a 2nd account to get his own back :cheers:

HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 07:07 PM
Wow the biggest troll on this site wants to accuse me of being LOL real cute

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HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 07:08 PM
More than most is the second coming of praise jesus. Hold This L Boy.

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WaDe03
07-20-2016, 07:13 PM
More than most is the second coming of praise jesus. Hold This L Boy.

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So much ignorance.

HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 07:17 PM
You don't reserve the right to call anyone ignorant. The man who keeps pushing the line that Wade is the best sg in the NBA. Just stop it little man.

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WaDe03
07-20-2016, 07:31 PM
You don't reserve the right to call anyone ignorant. The man who keeps pushing the line that Wade is the best sg in the NBA. Just stop it little man.

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"Little man" lol. You aren't handing out any Ls.

WaDe03
07-20-2016, 07:32 PM
Actually maybe you can prove my theory wrong since no one else can. Go ahead give it a try.

HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 07:34 PM
Answer me this little man. If Wade gets a pass for being injured in 2014 why not curry last year?

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