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View Full Version : Naming the DPOY the Tim Duncan Award



Chronz
07-12-2016, 03:51 PM
Why not?

Chronz
07-12-2016, 03:58 PM
Years TD should have won DPOY include;

Cambys year for sure, maybe one of Kawhi's?

MickeyMgl
07-12-2016, 04:06 PM
Why not?

Why?

tredigs
07-12-2016, 04:12 PM
It would be sort of strange. Bill Russell has the FMVP award named for him simply because he'd have over 8 of them, but they just did not exist at the time. Timmy had his shot every year, he just didn't get the nod.

We don't need to do Tim any favors. And plus he wouldn't even care.

europagnpilgrim
07-12-2016, 04:22 PM
Wilt Norman Chamberlain

for regular season MVP/DPOY

b@llhog24
07-12-2016, 04:26 PM
Let's go with no.

Avenged
07-12-2016, 04:34 PM
No thanks!

Chronz
07-12-2016, 04:37 PM
It would be sort of strange. Bill Russell has the FMVP award named for him simply because he'd have over 8 of them, but they just did not exist at the time. Timmy had his shot every year, he just didn't get the nod.

We don't need to do Tim any favors. And plus he wouldn't even care.

Well it was around when Russell won one of his titles. And I wonder how many he would have gotten really, impossible to know unless its the players voting. I honestly dont know who voted for West back then.

mia1619
07-12-2016, 04:37 PM
considering he didn't win the award once, no. we can remember how good he was without naming a trophy he never won after him.

Chronz
07-12-2016, 05:06 PM
Hes like a 15 time All-Defensive player. **** a year, hes defender of the decade. Bill Russell already has the an award named after him, why not this one for TD?

kdspurman
07-12-2016, 05:25 PM
Hes like a 15 time All-Defensive player. **** a year, hes defender of the decade. Bill Russell already has the an award named after him, why not this one for TD?

I don't think TD would care much, but I get the argument. I feel like that would be the ultimate payback for him never winning lol.

Curious as to why people are saying no (not that I disagree) but just wanting to hear their opinions

thenaj17
07-12-2016, 05:50 PM
He's not even the best defender of his own generation, Garnett was. Hell why not give it to Kobe as he was all defensive teams 13 times...neither won a single DPOY award because neither was ever the best defender in the league at any point.

Why not name it after Mutombo or Ben Wallace?

kdspurman
07-12-2016, 06:02 PM
ESPN Inside just had something, on if Duncan was the greatest defender of all time.

I think they had Russell as the best , but said Duncan can claim to be the best modern day defender. Think they used defensive win shares and a few other elements.

Chronz
07-12-2016, 06:05 PM
He's not even the best defender of his own generation, Garnett was. Hell why not give it to Kobe as he was all defensive teams 13 times...neither won a single DPOY award because neither was ever the best defender in the league at any point.

Why not name it after Mutombo or Ben Wallace?

Duncan suffered from having great defensive teammates, what I dont understand is why. He did exactly what you would expect an anchor to accomplish with great defensive talent around him, he led them to historically elite levels of defensive consistency. He should have won alot more of those DPOY but he was punished for being a 2-way guy with help on that end.

Rndy
07-12-2016, 06:11 PM
Not a fan of naming awards after players hate that Hockey does it just call it what it is.

CardinalRed24
07-12-2016, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't mind.
He deserves something like this. IMO he's a top 5 player all time. And most would argue top 10.
Duncan nd Kobe are icons and 2 of the biggest legends this sport has ever been blessed with.
Both deserve to be honored in every way imaginable.

Vincent
07-12-2016, 06:20 PM
I say no, because it will be hell for him to constantly have to present the award every year when he probably has no desire to remain in the spotlight.

flea
07-12-2016, 06:54 PM
ESPN Inside just had something, on if Duncan was the greatest defender of all time.

I think they had Russell as the best based off, but said Duncan can claim to be the best modern day defender. Think they used defensive win shares and a few other elements.

I personally think Duncan is, but not because of DWS. I mean I think Kevin Love and Monta Ellis were top 20 in DWS last year, and Tony Parker is well up there in all-time DWS which is ridiculous and more a testament to Duncan than anything he ever did on that end.

Just look at how his teams performed - yes it's imperfect but I think it's way better than saying someone has 5 more units of <random box score stat> and therefore is the better defender. Duncan's Spurs were top 5 every year in defense and defensive rebounding until 2011 (10th in both). He's the only player to be on all those teams, and the guy who was on most of them with him is bad at both rebounding and defending (Parker).

Sure he had Bowen, Robinson, Leonard, Green, and a variety of heady wings but none of them were even in his age window. Bowen/Robinson were in their 30s when with Duncan, and Green/Leonard are just now in their primes. Nobody is going to make an elite offense or defense alone but the Spurs scheme has always began and ended with Duncan - rely on him to clean up the glass and funnel everything at him because he'll be there. Dig further into shot location stats over the years and it's all the more impressive - no guard or wing will ever be able to do what a big can for a defense all those years in a row and with totally different casts and playing styles.

MickeyMgl
07-13-2016, 02:25 AM
ESPN Inside just had something, on if Duncan was the greatest defender of all time.

I think they had Russell as the best , but said Duncan can claim to be the best modern day defender. Think they used defensive win shares and a few other elements.

Man, did they forget Dennis Rodman?

Chronz
07-13-2016, 09:48 AM
I personally think Duncan is, but not because of DWS. I mean I think Kevin Love and Monta Ellis were top 20 in DWS last year, and Tony Parker is well up there in all-time DWS which is ridiculous and more a testament to Duncan than anything he ever did on that end.

Just look at how his teams performed - yes it's imperfect but I think it's way better than saying someone has 5 more units of <random box score stat> and therefore is the better defender. Duncan's Spurs were top 5 every year in defense and defensive rebounding until 2011 (10th in both). He's the only player to be on all those teams, and the guy who was on most of them with him is bad at both rebounding and defending (Parker).

Sure he had Bowen, Robinson, Leonard, Green, and a variety of heady wings but none of them were even in his age window. Bowen/Robinson were in their 30s when with Duncan, and Green/Leonard are just now in their primes. Nobody is going to make an elite offense or defense alone but the Spurs scheme has always began and ended with Duncan - rely on him to clean up the glass and funnel everything at him because he'll be there. Dig further into shot location stats over the years and it's all the more impressive - no guard or wing will ever be able to do what a big can for a defense all those years in a row and with totally different casts and playing styles.

Like you said, TP was a member of those same teams, its no different from DWS in that regard. Duncan's defense was always strong but he would fluctuate between DPOY duties. Like before he lost the weight, the guy remained a quality defender but he wasn't what I would call a DPOY caliber guy. Earlier in his career I thought his man defense was weak and I actually think the movement away from interior hulks did him good.

You can use DWS to disperse credit, like you said, I credit much of those DWS to Duncan, which is impressive considering he already leads history. Its no fluke to be #1 in DWS, it implies sustained statistical dominance on consistently strong defensive teams, outliers exist in any analysis.

FlashBolt
07-13-2016, 03:42 PM
Yeah, it's stupid. Just let the man retire in peace. No need to give a label on everything these days. I'm pretty sure Duncan wouldn't even want something like that in his honor.

Chronz
07-13-2016, 03:50 PM
Yeah, it's stupid. Just let the man retire in peace. No need to give a label on everything these days. I'm pretty sure Duncan wouldn't even want something like that in his honor.
Bill Russell is the most selfless star team sports history and even he adores this. Trust me, the further removed from their gloryb years the more they enjoy the honors. You know things like getting jerseys retired, hof invites, being dubbed the logo or an award.

FlashBolt
07-13-2016, 04:30 PM
Bill Russell is the most selfless star team sports history and even he adores this. Trust me, the further removed from their gloryb years the more they enjoy the honors. You know things like getting jerseys retired, hof invites, being dubbed the logo or an award.

Yeah, but do we really have to do this? I mean it's great and all but there's really no need to start labeling every award out there. He was great for the game and the game will move on. It's really as simple as that.

KnickNyKnick
07-13-2016, 05:25 PM
how about we name all the awards based on who has the most of those awards. done.

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2016, 10:17 PM
I would love it, but I got a boner for TD.

He's one of the great defenders ever, and the fact he's never won a DPOY is embarrassing to the league. It's like Jerry Sloan and Chuck Daly never winning COY, while Sam Mitchell, Avery Johnson, Bryon Scott, and Mike Brown have. I mean, Don Nelson won it three times!

Chronz
07-14-2016, 10:00 AM
Yeah, but do we really have to do this? I mean it's great and all but there's really no need to start labeling every award out there. He was great for the game and the game will move on. It's really as simple as that.
Cuz its awesome naming awards. The larry obrien the russell

JasonJohnHorn
07-14-2016, 04:33 PM
I say no, because it will be hell for him to constantly have to present the award every year when he probably has no desire to remain in the spotlight.

True, true.

"Here's your award. Did you know I never won it myself, but it is named after me? Let's go for a swim then play some D&D after. Would you like to read the article I co-authored that was published in a psychology journal?"

IKnowHoops
07-15-2016, 05:31 AM
Why not?

Because Admiral and Hakeem were both clearly better defensively than Duncan. I think they were both better than Duncan offensively too. Numbers back up both.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2016, 05:39 AM
Bill Russell is the most selfless star team sports history and even he adores this. Trust me, the further removed from their gloryb years the more they enjoy the honors. You know things like getting jerseys retired, hof invites, being dubbed the logo or an award.

That being said, Bill likes the spotlight waaaaaay more than Duncan. Duncan wants to disappear I think. He's a very private person.

Bill likes the camera...you can tell...he almost poses in front of it whenever its on him. He's always got a lot to say, and he takes his time to say it, almost basking in the attention. This is in no way to put Bill down as he is very humble and is the last person to talk about himself as to how good he was. But he loves being apart of the NBA.

CardinalRed24
07-15-2016, 02:52 PM
Yeah, but do we really have to do this? I mean it's great and all but there's really no need to start labeling every award out there. He was great for the game and the game will move on. It's really as simple as that.

Tim Duncan isn't just some ordinary guy who happened to have a successful career.. We're talking about a top 5-10 player all time. A once in a lifetime talent. An NBA icon. Tim Duncan.
One of the greatest athletes in sports history.
They wouldn't just name this award after some really good player who made 6-7 all star appearances who led his team to the playoffs a few times.
They're honoring Tim Duncan here. Who was more than just great for the game. He was transcendent. An inspiration to many ppl. Hell, I'm a diehard Laker fan, and I cant help but appreciate the guy. I have nothing more than full-out respect & admiration for The Big Fundamental. And I am sad to see him go. He absolutely deserves something like this.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 02:55 PM
Tim Duncan isn't just some ordinary guy who happened to have a successful career.. We're talking about a top 5-10 player all time. A once in a lifetime talent. An NBA icon. Tim Duncan.
One of the greatest athletes in sports history.
They wouldn't just name this award after some really good player who made 6-7 all star appearances who led his team to the playoffs a few times.
They're honoring Tim Duncan here. Who was more than just great for the game. He was transcendent. An inspiration to many ppl. Hell, I'm a diehard Laker fan, and I cant help but appreciate the guy. I have nothing more than full-out respect & admiration for The Big Fundamental. And I am sad to see him go. He absolutely deserves something like this.

Deserve doesn't mean it is necessary. I never said he doesn't deserve it. He's a top ten NBA GOAT defender for sure and you can surely place him in the top three because of his longevity and still being an elite defender 15-18 years down his career. But it's an award... Retire his jersey, hold a tribute sometime next season, and let the man retire. There's really no need for this type of stuff. Soon we'll be renaming the sixth-man to Jamal Crawford award. Totally not necessary.

AntiG
07-15-2016, 03:05 PM
If they were to name the DPOY after a big man, I'd likely consider Hakeem, Ewing, Rodman, Wallace, KG, Wilt, Russell, Mutombo, KAJ, Eaton and Robinson before Duncan. If there was one name, it'd probably have to be Hakeem.

Duncan was great because he was good at basically everything. As a defender, he was elite, but not the best of all-time.

FlashBolt
07-15-2016, 05:14 PM
If they were to name the DPOY after a big man, I'd likely consider Hakeem, Ewing, Rodman, Wallace, KG, Wilt, Russell, Mutombo, KAJ, Eaton and Robinson before Duncan. If there was one name, it'd probably have to be Hakeem.

Duncan was great because he was good at basically everything. As a defender, he was elite, but not the best of all-time.

He's really right up there with Hakeem. How Duncan never won any DPOY is a travesty. For 18 years (even last year) he was still an elite level defender. Maybe not at all times but certainly capable of giving you 15 minutes of still being the best defensive center. He's also probably the smartest shotblocker I've ever seen due to his ability to try and block the ball in a way so they can get the loose ball. I'd take KG at his prime but overall, I think Duncan is just as good as a defender as anyone out there.

flea
07-15-2016, 06:53 PM
If they were to name the DPOY after a big man, I'd likely consider Hakeem, Ewing, Rodman, Wallace, KG, Wilt, Russell, Mutombo, KAJ, Eaton and Robinson before Duncan. If there was one name, it'd probably have to be Hakeem.

Duncan was great because he was good at basically everything. As a defender, he was elite, but not the best of all-time.

What's this based on? Individual stats say he is, and I'm one of the biggest detractors around here of individual defensive stats. Duncan helmed the best defensive dynasty since Russell's Celtics - that is indisputable. Hell there's an argument that the Spurs defensive dynasty is better than the Celtics, when you account for competition. I'm not going to go through all those guys you listed because some (like Eaton, KAJ, and Rodman) are just so clearly inferior to Duncan that I don't care to spend my time addressing their resumes.

Here is how many top 5 defenses each contender has been on (by adjusted D-rating):

Pippen: 6
Dream: 7
Wallace: 5
Ewing: 9 (all consecutive)
Robinson: 11 (3 consecutive by himself, 6 consecutive with Duncan)
Garnett: 5 (all consecutive)
Duncan: 16 (12 consecutive and then 4 consecutive)

It is no contest. Further, Ewing's Knicks were tied with Duncan's Spurs with most consecutive #1 finishes with 4. But Ewing's Knicks had no other #1 finishes outside of that - Duncan's Spurs had 3 more to make 7 total #1 finishes for his Spurs. Duncan's Spurs had a far and away leading total of 15 top 3 finishes (11 consecutive).

Duncan/Robinson '99 team was the best by adjusted rating in history, until the year after Robinson retired when the '04 Spurs set the record with 94.09 adjusted D rating (still the record and yes I understand the uniqueness of era). Duncan wasn't on teams like the Bad Boys or the 00's Pistons or the Bulls either - there was usually one or two other plus defenders but after that a bunch of average ones. He's the only one on all of those teams.

So because defense is so murky I can see someone saying a guy like Ewing or Dream or Robinson was slightly better than Duncan. But the numbers (individual and, more importantly, team) say it's Duncan by a wide margin. The elite defensive play in his decline as a player who couldn't jump says it's Duncan. The rings say it's Duncan.

GiantsSwaGG
07-15-2016, 07:12 PM
Scottie Pippen says hello

IKnowHoops
07-17-2016, 07:13 AM
I'll take Drob over Duncan defensively. Bigger, faster, and a human eraser on blocks. He could chase down similarly to Lebron. In his prime he could block anything from anywhere. Jordan couldn't dunk on him. Even after his double pumps in the air Drob would still find him and send his ish...unlike Mutombo. No one not named Shaq wanted to try prime David.

warfelg
07-17-2016, 07:45 AM
Eh. I don't see the need to patronize his place in history with an award named after him. Plenty of all time great players have come through without anything named after them.

cmellofan15
07-17-2016, 09:20 AM
LMAO i never thought i'd see the day on psd where the legacy of a modern day great is diminished because of some made up revisionist history. Duncan was elite defensively for damn near 20 years and lead teams reigned defensive terror on the NBA for a decade and a half. You can say that about maybe one other guy in nba history.

tredigs
07-17-2016, 10:19 AM
Peak wise, Ben Wallace was the best defender I ever saw. He could virtually shut down an entire offense, it was uncanny. Followed by Hakeem/Duncan/KG in different ways (and would be too tough for me to decide based on eye-test. There are a couple wings we could throw in as well, but their size gives them the default advantage). All-Time I think it would be too much of a sleight to Russell to give Duncan the naming of the award (even though Russell already has the FMVP), and ultimately they just never would as he never won it.

warfelg
07-17-2016, 10:32 AM
Peak wise, Ben Wallace was the best defender I ever saw. He could virtually shut down an entire offense, it was uncanny. Followed by Hakeem/Duncan/KG in different ways (and would be too tough for me to decide based on eye-test. There are a couple wings we could throw in as well, but their size gives them the default advantage). All-Time I think it would be too much of a sleight to Russell to give Duncan the naming of the award (even though Russell already has the FMVP), and ultimately they just never would as he never won it.

I just think it's too much disrespect to all the defensive greats to name it after one guy.

tredigs
07-17-2016, 11:26 AM
I just think it's too much disrespect to all the defensive greats to name it after one guy.

For sure, especially since it's a newer award and so many past greats never had a chance to win it. Have to imagine it would be named after one of them first.

Chronz
07-17-2016, 12:40 PM
For sure, especially since it's a newer award and so many past greats never had a chance to win it. Have to imagine it would be named after one of them first.
Who else has a realistic shot at it? Definitely cant be Russell cuz he already has an award named after him. Duncan deserves a lifetime achievement award to make up for never winning it. Similar to Russell.

Lakersfan2483
07-17-2016, 01:04 PM
Duncan was definitely a tremendous defender, but a case can be made for naming the award after a lot of players. Guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Garnett, Alonzo Mourning, Bill Russell and Ben Wallace all come to mind.

BKLYNpigeon
07-17-2016, 01:05 PM
Tim Duncan Wouldn't want that Honor because he wouldn't want to be present every year to hand the Trophy to the winner.

brandt
07-17-2016, 09:04 PM
No!

brandt
07-17-2016, 09:05 PM
Duncan was definitely a tremendous defender, but a case can be made for naming the award after a lot of players. Guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Garnett, Alonzo Mourning, Bill Russell and Ben Wallace all come to mind.
This