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Chronz
07-12-2016, 12:51 PM
14,382 PTS (Top150) --- 8058 REBOUNDS (TOP 66) --- 818 BLOCKS (TOP 124)

Averages of 18.3 - 10.3 - 1.3 Ast in 785 Games (12 Seasons)

As a C he earned 1 All-NBA 1st Team Selection, 2 2nd team selections. Won 58, 52, 52 games at his best.

During his 5 year All-Star run he averaged 22.6PPG - 12.1REB - 1.4AST (PER: 21.8/ .175 WS%)
With a solid 15 & 9 in the next 3 seasons thereafter

His teams generally fall in R1 with him under performing (18.9 PER), his greatest playoff run takes him all the way to the ECF where he falls to a legendary team. No rings, not much post season success just loads of durability and RS success.




Thats what this player accomplished from age 28-39.

tredigs
07-12-2016, 01:21 PM
Would need a little more context (era/pace to give the #'s context), but unless he had a great college and/or international career, it's not a HOF resume in a vacuum.

PhillyFaninLA
07-12-2016, 01:40 PM
I would want to know more and what era. How did this player do against his peers at the time? How did this player do with eye test? What where those stat rankings at the end of the players career?

These are always trick questions an click bait threads by someone that doesn't to say is this play a hall of famer, with that said I did click and comment so I suppose its a win for you.

PhillyFaninLA
07-12-2016, 01:42 PM
Would need a little more context (era/pace to give the #'s context), but unless he had a great college and/or international career, it's not a HOF resume in a vacuum.

You bring up a really good point, there is no NBA hall of fame just the basketball hall of fame

mightybosstone
07-12-2016, 01:55 PM
It's hard to tell, but I do think a player with that career probably gets in. The career you described isn't too far off of a guy like Bob Lanier. In fact, the advanced numbers and the postseason success is damn near identical. Plus, Lanier never made an All-NBA team in his career, and he hardly had to wait that long at all get in.

mightybosstone
07-12-2016, 02:02 PM
It was driving me nuts, but I finally figured out who it is that you're talking about. But I'm curious what point it is that you're trying to make. Just that the guy had a Hall of Fame career even after he started to decline as a player?

Chronz
07-12-2016, 02:20 PM
It was driving me nuts, but I finally figured out who it is that you're talking about. But I'm curious what point it is that you're trying to make. Just that the guy had a Hall of Fame career even after he started to decline as a player?

Yeah, the 2nd half of this guys career was basically a fringe HOF career. Lanier comp was right on, pretty similar at that stage. Obviously the entire career makes his a HOF career but thats a no brainer.

Does TDs 2nd half garner a HOF vote?

mightybosstone
07-12-2016, 02:30 PM
Yeah, the 2nd half of this guys career was basically a fringe HOF career. Lanier comp was right on, pretty similar at that stage. Obviously the entire career makes his a HOF career but thats a no brainer.

Does TDs 2nd half garner a HOF vote?

Without actually doing the math, in his last 10 seasons (we'll round up to 10 since he played 19 years), he had a four year peak of around 19/10/3/2 with a PER over 24.0 and a WS/48 hovering around .200. He won two titles in that span, made two All-NBA 1st teams, two All-NBA 2nd teams and two All-NBA third teams in addition to six All-Defensive team awards (two 1st teams). I'm not going to add up all the total stats, but without even doing that, I'd say Duncan's second half is definitely in the Hall of Fame conversation.

tredigs
07-12-2016, 03:56 PM
Yeah, the 2nd half of this guys career was basically a fringe HOF career. Lanier comp was right on, pretty similar at that stage. Obviously the entire career makes his a HOF career but thats a no brainer.

Does TDs 2nd half garner a HOF vote?

I looked at this yesterday and decided that yes it does (at the very least you can easily make 2 HOF careers by taking his age 21-29 years, and then his 30-39 years. Both probably 1st ballot).

Age 21-29 speak for themselves and are a lock for tier 1 - 1st Ballot HOF, but here are his numbers from age 30-39:

16/10/3 + 2 blks on 51/71 (in 30 mpg. 19/11.5/3.5 per-36 min)

PER of 23.3. WS/48 .193 (would have been good for 19th and 25th All-Time respectively)

7 AS appearances
2X All-NBA 1st Team. 2X All-NBA 2nd Team. 2X All-NBA 3rd Team. 6 All-Defensive Teams (2X First Team)
2X NBA Champion as key cog.

133 career playoff games in his age 30-39 span (10 shy of KG's career total)


Yeah, that's very easily a STRONG HOF resume.

Chronz
07-12-2016, 04:10 PM
What other careers aside from KAJ, can we cut in half and have a HOF'er?

b@llhog24
07-12-2016, 04:34 PM
What other careers aside from KAJ, can we cut in half and have a HOF'er?

Malone?

tredigs
07-12-2016, 04:46 PM
Well i mean, even a guy like Shaq too if you went 92-2000 and 2000-close. There's probably quite a few since the NBA is relatively easy to get into compared to something like baseballs HOF, but his is as strong a case as there is.

Scoots
07-12-2016, 04:56 PM
Long ago when Lynn Swann made the NFL HOF I noticed that Jerry Rice's career after he had 2 devastating knee injuries when he was 34 years old was actually comparable to Swann's.

Times change the the criteria changes ... except winning ... winning is ALWAYS the top criteria.

Rivera
07-12-2016, 05:18 PM
Serious question. No bait. I don't even like Kobe either BUT

If you cut Kobes career in half does he make it ? Or even better. Does Kobes stats as #8 a HOF ? Does Kobes stats as #24 a HOF

flea
07-12-2016, 05:26 PM
I agree that Malone's 2nd half is probably HOF worthy. Duncan's 2nd half definitely is IMO. It's basically something just shy of McHale's entire resume, here are their playoff stat lines:

KM: 18.8/7.4/1.6 with 1.9 TO and 1.7 blocks on 56.1% from field and 78.8% FT in 5716 minutes
TD 07-16: 18.4/10.7/2.7 with 2 TO and 2 blocks on 49.8% from field and 66.6% from FT in 4569 minutes

The minutes are off but defense and accolades tilt towards Duncan. Duncan was best player on '07 ring team, '13 Finals team that nearly won, and the '14 ring team. Some say Leonard was better the last year but if he was it wasn't by much, and Duncan was by far the best 2-way player on the '14 team. Considering the love some players get for a single ring or conference title, I'd think that's enough postseason winning to tilt it.

I think Dirk's 2nd half also has a good shot. His ring came in the 2nd half of his career and people give him a lot of credit for that, even though that was much more of a team effort. The rigged '06 run was Dirk's finest moment IMO, but sadly he'll be remembered as a "choker" for that and the following series loss to GS. Still, the HOF likes scoring and winning more than anything and the 2nd half of Dirk's career has plenty of that.

ciaban
07-12-2016, 05:42 PM
It was driving me nuts, but I finally figured out who it is that you're talking about. But I'm curious what point it is that you're trying to make. Just that the guy had a Hall of Fame career even after he started to decline as a player?

Me too, for a min I thought he may have been talking about Larry Nance, with the whole eastern conference thing. But the rebounds didn't exactly match up and Nance had more Blocks than the example he gave.
It goes to show how great Duncan was that half his career equals one larry nance sr.

thenaj17
07-12-2016, 06:10 PM
I agree that Malone's 2nd half is probably HOF worthy. Duncan's 2nd half definitely is IMO. It's basically something just shy of McHale's entire resume, here are their playoff stat lines:

KM: 18.8/7.4/1.6 with 1.9 TO and 1.7 blocks on 56.1% from field and 78.8% FT in 5716 minutes
TD 07-16: 18.4/10.7/2.7 with 2 TO and 2 blocks on 49.8% from field and 66.6% from FT in 4569 minutes

The minutes are off but defense and accolades tilt towards Duncan. Duncan was best player on '07 ring team, '13 Finals team that nearly won, and the '14 ring team. Some say Leonard was better the last year but if he was it wasn't by much, and Duncan was by far the best 2-way player on the '14 team. Considering the love some players get for a single ring or conference title, I'd think that's enough postseason winning to tilt it.

I think Dirk's 2nd half also has a good shot. His ring came in the 2nd half of his career and people give him a lot of credit for that, even though that was much more of a team effort. The rigged '06 run was Dirk's finest moment IMO, but sadly he'll be remembered as a "choker" for that and the following series loss to GS. Still, the HOF likes scoring and winning more than anything and the 2nd half of Dirk's career has plenty of that.

It's very debatable he was the best player in 13, Parker was still the catalyst for the offense often and Leonard and Green were superb both ends. 2014 Duncan was nowhere near the best player on the team. Leonard and Parker were unbelievable and if anyone thinks Duncan was the best for that one, they must not have watched the games

As for the OP, Duncan's career split would both get into HoF. Easily worthy overall even if his decline has been happening for 6-7 years at least

flea
07-12-2016, 06:28 PM
It's very debatable he was the best player in 13, Parker was still the catalyst for the offense often and Leonard and Green were superb both ends. 2014 Duncan was nowhere near the best player on the team. Leonard and Parker were unbelievable and if anyone thinks Duncan was the best for that one, they must not have watched the games

Duncan's my favorite player, pretty sure I watched more games of his than most except the biggest Spurs fans around here.

Green/Leonard had the same role on offense in 13 and 14 - shoot when you're open, cut when you're not. That's it, neither of them had any plays called for them nor were expected to score anything except what came to them in the course of the offense. Yeah Green was hot in '13 and Leonard was hot in '14 but making stand-still jumpers and layups doesn't mean you're anything close to what Duncan was on offense. Duncan was still the best crunch-time scorer and they went to him when they needed plays in both 2013 and 2014 (and 2015 too, when he nearly single-handedly beat the Clippers).

I'm not saying Duncan carried either team by any means, there's no way he wasn't the best or 1B on both teams. I mean he led his team in minutes for the whole playoffs in 2014, in spite of being a 37 year old big man. He was the primary ISO scorer, best rebounder, best screen and roll man, 2nd leading scorer both years, and probably the best defender both years unless you've been swooned by Leonard's performance vs. Lebron. That sounds a lot like a team's best player, even if it's a very balanced team.

Jeffy25
07-12-2016, 06:38 PM
The basketball hall of fame, IMO, is a pretty big joke.

I wish it could be reorganized to a NBA hall of Fame, like baseball has (they don't care about college or minor league ball, but Negro Leagues count).


That said.

This guys is probably outside of the top 100 players all-time.

And that would probably be my Hall of Fame threshold if they were to start a new NBA Hall of Fame

Jeffy25
07-12-2016, 06:41 PM
Without actually doing the math, in his last 10 seasons (we'll round up to 10 since he played 19 years), he had a four year peak of around 19/10/3/2 with a PER over 24.0 and a WS/48 hovering around .200. He won two titles in that span, made two All-NBA 1st teams, two All-NBA 2nd teams and two All-NBA third teams in addition to six All-Defensive team awards (two 1st teams). I'm not going to add up all the total stats, but without even doing that, I'd say Duncan's second half is definitely in the Hall of Fame conversation.

For future reference, you can have those totals compiled for you on basketball reference, by selecting the season you want to start, and then selecting the season you want to end:

From Duncan's age 28-39 seasons he totaled.
14,634 PTS
8684 TRB
2565 Assists
1706 Blocks

Jeffy25
07-12-2016, 06:44 PM
Serious question. No bait. I don't even like Kobe either BUT

If you cut Kobes career in half does he make it ? Or even better. Does Kobes stats as #8 a HOF ? Does Kobes stats as #24 a HOF

Kobe after the 07 season scored 14K points and didn't do much else outside of being on some title runs.

There wouldn't be enough longevity to put him in.

If he retires at 28, he has a better argument, but not if he starts at 28

Jeffy25
07-12-2016, 06:46 PM
What other careers aside from KAJ, can we cut in half and have a HOF'er?

In baseball you can do it with a few players because longevity can be more normal in the sport
Rickey Henderson, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, to name a few, you can do this with. Cut each off at 30, and you have two hall of fame careers.

Hell, Mike Trout can barely legally drink and he is 3/4th of the way there already.

JasonJohnHorn
07-12-2016, 09:35 PM
Whoever this is, it sounds like they are worthy. Especially if they were playing against the titans of the 70's, 80's and 90's. Getting 1 All-NBA team at C in those generations meant you were a stud.

Market plays a factor. So does defense. But I'mma say yes.