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Tony_Starks
07-11-2016, 04:05 PM
Not likely but just suppose a more "home grown" team like Paul George Pacers or heaven forbid Russ OKC Thunder won, could that change the way this Superteam trend is perceived?

Would that player get more recognition for "winning the right way?" Perhaps change free agents viewpoint on how they want to go about winning?

I know the NBA would love it....

Gibby23
07-11-2016, 04:10 PM
I wouldn't say the Cavs are a super team. They have the best player on the planet and Kyrie supported by good role players.

Tony_Starks
07-11-2016, 04:13 PM
I mean 3 prime all stars, 2 guys that dropped 41 in a single Finals game, and the leagues highest payroll.

About as super as it gets.

Just because Love is a bad fit against the Dubs doesn't take away from what he is.

ManRam
07-11-2016, 04:21 PM
If the Cavs are a "super team" no one was calling them that a month ago. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, I guess, but it's not like the Heat and certainly not like the Warriors.


I think this "winning the right way" stuff is mostly silly and players probably don't care half as much as they say. Free agency exists for a reason and utilizing it isn't cheating or the "wrong way". The Warriors did everything the "right way" up until this point and the reason they landed KD is because they nailed it while doing it "the right way".

It's just bitter (fair to be bitter) fans and cranky old players who feel better by whining about it. NBA players are free to do whatever they want. Hell, KD used to care...and look what he did. It's lip service if they're saying it. You gotta do what you feel is best for you and no one else. And this whole notion that they need to be "loyal" to teams and owners is just stupid. Players realize they have the real power and they'll continue to tap into that. 20 years ago they didn't have this power.

I don't think GSW not winning will change anything. Unless something drastic happens during the upcoming CBA negotiations I can't see anything changing at all because of one year in which the super team(s) didn't win.

bucketss
07-11-2016, 04:32 PM
not long ago the "real" finals was okc vs gsw, and cavs had no chance and now cavs are a superteam :laugh2:

More-Than-Most
07-11-2016, 04:41 PM
I mean 3 prime all stars, 2 guys that dropped 41 in a single Finals game, and the leagues highest payroll.

About as super as it gets.

Just because Love is a bad fit against the Dubs doesn't take away from what he is.

How can one be a superteam if you take the best player off and they barely make the playoffs? Kyrie and love play negative defense.

More-Than-Most
07-11-2016, 04:42 PM
not long ago the "real" finals was okc vs gsw, and cavs had no chance and now cavs are a superteam :laugh2:

Lol yup... Funny how that works... I still have them behind the warriors/spurs by alot and on par with the thunder/clippers/raptors

Vee-Rex
07-11-2016, 04:45 PM
not long ago the "real" finals was okc vs gsw, and cavs had no chance and now cavs are a superteam :laugh2:

Lol I know, right?

Prior to the defeat of the Spurs, the "real" finals was SA vs. GS. Afterwards, it was GS vs. OKC, and the Cavs were gonna make it through a weak East only to get annihilated by the West winner.

:rolleyes:

If you wanna call the Cavs a super team then go ahead, but only if you call the Warriors a SuperDuperMega team.

To the OP's point: I'm sure if some team like the Pacers or Thunder won the championship people would most likely view it as an outlier, especially if injuries are involved (which would most likely be the only scenario they win). I doubt future free agents would change their approach because of that.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:04 PM
I mean 3 prime all stars, 2 guys that dropped 41 in a single Finals game, and the leagues highest payroll.

About as super as it gets.

Just because Love is a bad fit against the Dubs doesn't take away from what he is.

Cavs are a superteam? They have a top 2 player. And 2 guys that can go anywhere from 30-50. Then what?

Love isn't a star anymore. He isn't used right, not his fault, but he is not an all star level player. You have read my thoughts on Irving, who is actually a net negative player by the metrics.

If the actual Superteam Warriors don't win it all, it will be a blow to KD and the rest of them. But who cares really. The funny thing is, so many people, here and mainstream, just want to measure success on rings. But then when a player doesn't get one the way you would like them to, it doesn't count the same.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:13 PM
I guess "Superteam" defines a lot of teams. The Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom Lakers would be one by that measure

DR_1
07-11-2016, 05:18 PM
I guess "Superteam" defines a lot of teams. The Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom Lakers would be one by that measure

I actually considered them one. And Cleveland. It seems my definition of super team is more liberal than some.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:25 PM
I wouldn't say the Cavs are a super team. They have the best player on the planet and Kyrie supported by good role players.

I knew the first responses in this thread would be fans of both super teams denying they are super teams.

Vee-Rex
07-11-2016, 05:26 PM
Cavs are a superteam? They have a top 2 player. And 2 guys that can go anywhere from 30-50. Then what?

Love isn't a star anymore. He isn't used right, not his fault, but he is not an all star level player. You have read my thoughts on Irving, who is actually a net negative player by the metrics.

If the actual Superteam Warriors don't win it all, it will be a blow to KD and the rest of them. But who cares really. The funny thing is, so many people, here and mainstream, just want to measure success on rings. But then when a player doesn't get one the way you would like them to, it doesn't count the same.

How is a net negative player also a top 30-50th player?

:confused:

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:27 PM
I mean 3 prime all stars, 2 guys that dropped 41 in a single Finals game, and the leagues highest payroll.

About as super as it gets.

Just because Love is a bad fit against the Dubs doesn't take away from what he is.

Seems to be the trend of stans these days to downplay their teams and to hype up their rivals.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:27 PM
I see the ninja troll attempt by the OP though. Nicely done sir.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:34 PM
I guess "Superteam" defines a lot of teams. The Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom Lakers would be one by that measure

A top 5 player in Kobe. A top 15 player in Gasol, then two border line all-stars in Bynum/Odom. Back when they were relevant, definitely would be considered a very stacked team. Even the big three Celtics were very stacked, but wouldn't consider them quite super teams. I think the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat were the first to coin that term. A big three where all three players were still in the peak of their primes had never been done before that.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:35 PM
How is a net negative player also a top 30-50th player?

:confused:

He is widely considered that. He is like the anti Rubio in all reality. Puts up efficient stats, yet his team doesn't miss him at all when he is out. Rubio doesn't put up efficient stats, but every team he has ever played for is a lot better when he plays..

I hate his game. But I try and accept that people actually consider him a top 10 PG. I had the same feeling regarding Rondo back in the C's days.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:35 PM
Lol I know, right?

Prior to the defeat of the Spurs, the "real" finals was SA vs. GS. Afterwards, it was GS vs. OKC, and the Cavs were gonna make it through a weak East only to get annihilated by the West winner.

:rolleyes:

If you wanna call the Cavs a super team then go ahead, but only if you call the Warriors a SuperDuperMega team.

To the OP's point: I'm sure if some team like the Pacers or Thunder won the championship people would most likely view it as an outlier, especially if injuries are involved (which would most likely be the only scenario they win). I doubt future free agents would change their approach because of that.

I would call the Warriors an evolved version of a super team. Super team version 2.0 if you will lol.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:36 PM
He is widely considered that. He is like the anti Rubio in all reality. Puts up efficient stats, yet his team doesn't miss him at all when he is out. Rubio doesn't put up efficient stats, but every team he has ever played for is a lot better when he plays..

I hate his game. But I try and accept that people actually consider him a top 10 PG. I had the same feeling regarding Rondo back in the C's days.

He looked pretty super to me in the finals.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:38 PM
A top 5 player in Kobe. A top 15 player in Gasol, then two border line all-stars in Bynum/Odom. Back when they were relevant, definitely would be considered a very stacked team. Even the big three Celtics were very stacked, but wouldn't consider them quite super teams. I think the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat were the first to coin that term. A big three where all three players were still in the peak of their primes had never been done before that.

Wade wasn't in his peak, but yes, all 3 were coming off all star seasons and joined the same team. That is a first. It became obvious by year 2 that Wade was heading downhill fast.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:39 PM
He looked pretty super to me in the finals.

Troy Hudson got a huge deal off a playoff series.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:42 PM
Wade wasn't in his peak, but yes, all 3 were coming off all star seasons and joined the same team. That is a first. It became obvious by year 2 that Wade was heading downhill fast.

Wade was always injury prone.

So are Curry and KD.

Chronz
07-11-2016, 05:43 PM
There is no one on the level of gs.
If they lose you best believe the other 28 teams would still rather be them. Talented af. This may be the most lopsided season in a long time. Maybe the each easiest chip won since kobe was able to win one playing injured

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:45 PM
Troy Hudson got a huge deal off a playoff series.

Lol, true. But Kyrie is still very young and has shown some very promising flashes. The guy killed it in the last four games. Even his D looked a lot better. He just needs to work on his passing and shot selection.

Vee-Rex
07-11-2016, 05:45 PM
He is widely considered that. He is like the anti Rubio in all reality. Puts up efficient stats, yet his team doesn't miss him at all when he is out. Rubio doesn't put up efficient stats, but every team he has ever played for is a lot better when he plays..

I hate his game. But I try and accept that people actually consider him a top 10 PG. I had the same feeling regarding Rondo back in the C's days.

I get your point, but Kyrie's minutes were largely staggered with LeBron's. LeBron would come out the game with 4'ish minutes left in the 1st. Then LeBron would start the 2nd (sometimes with Love) with the bench unit and run up the score against the opposing team's bench. Kyrie didn't do all that well in the regular season this year, I get that - but some context shows why his RBPM numbers aren't great.

But I get why you dislike him.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to the next season as I think it'll prove/disprove a lot of stuff. I'm really anxious to see how the Warriors superdupermega team performs. They'll have their ups and downs but imagine them playing in Roaracle against a Rockets team without much defense, with a coach who ignores defense and insists on playing fast...

If the Dubs don't blow out Houston and sit their starters for the 2nd half I could see them putting up 140 on them in regulation.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:47 PM
Wade was always injury prone.

So are Curry and KD.

Wade always played that crashing style. It's expected. Learn to shoot a damn 3

Bostonjorge
07-11-2016, 05:50 PM
You must be joking if you don't think Cavs are a super team. Cavs road to the finals will still be easier then GS road. It's not even close really. James and Irving outplayed the whole eastern conference in last years playoffs. How is that not a super team.

If you remove James from Cleveland Cavs still dominate the east.

As for the original question I don't think any team but another super team can take these teams down.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:50 PM
Lol, true. But Kyrie is still very young and has shown some very promising flashes. The guy killed it in the last four games. Even his D looked a lot better. He just needs to work on his passing and shot selection.

He is young, and perhaps this playoff run opens his eyes to the fact that day in, day out defense, and ball movement trump playground basketball, which is what he plays. He doesn't play a consistently winning style of basketball.

Ve-Rex, that is always been my problem with him (roping you in, so I don't need to respond to the reply you just gave). Kyrie has never understood how to play winning basketball. He can score, but every single offensive advantage he gives his team, gets cancelled on the other end. And he isn't a video game offensive machine to outweigh that (see Love in Minny).

But like I said, maybe this playoffs wakes him up. I can guarantee you Irving/Love had never seen how much importance every little detail is. You can be naturally awesome, but it don't mean **** if you don't take playing great consistently.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:50 PM
There is no one on the level of gs.
If they lose you best believe the other 28 teams would still rather be them. Talented af. This may be the most lopsided season in a long time. Maybe the each easiest chip won since kobe was able to win one playing injured

People said the same thing in 2011 and look what happened. Noting is guaranteed, that's why they play the games. There are still injuries, team chemistry, and don't forget that Curry and KD are both known choke artists in the biggest moments of their careers similar to how Lebron was back when he first joined the Heat. KD is only signed for two years with a one year opt out don't forget.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:51 PM
You must be joking if you don't think Cavs are a super team. Cavs road to the finals will still be easier then GS road. .

did you even see Magic's roads to the finals...

CardinalRed24
07-11-2016, 05:52 PM
Cavs are not a Superteam. They're close, but not quite there. As of now, they only have two all-star caliber players. And I, personally , no longer consider KLove an allstar. Not on this team. He was almost completely useless for them in these past playoffs. And frankly, I wasn't impressed with him at any point during the regular season either.
Tristian Thompson is nice. He's definitely more than just a "solid role-player" he has proven he's way more than that, though i still wouldn't say he's a star either.
GS is the only super team in the league. Maybe San Antonio could make an argument if Pau Gasol is motivated enough. Which he should be.
LAC have 3 legitimate stars in Paul, Griffin & Jordan but their lack of playoff success tells us they're really not so "super" after all.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:52 PM
You must be joking if you don't think Cavs are a super team. Cavs road to the finals will still be easier then GS road. It's not even close really. James and Irving outplayed the whole eastern conference in last years playoffs. How is that not a super team.

If you remove James from Cleveland Cavs still dominate the east.

As for the original question I don't think any team but another super team can take these teams down.

I was with you up until you said remove James and they still dominate the east.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:53 PM
Cavs are not a Superteam. They're close, but not quite there. As of now, they only have two all-star caliber players. And I, personally , no longer consider KLove an allstar. Not on this team. He was almost completely useless for them in these past playoffs. And frankly, I wasn't impressed with him at any point during the regular season either.
Tristian Thompson is nice. He's definitely more than just a "solid role-player" he has proven he's way more than that, though i still wouldn't say he's a star either.
GS is the only super team in the league. Maybe San Antonio could make an argument if Pau Gasol is motivated enough. Which he should be.
LAC have 3 legitimate stars in Paul, Griffin & Jordan but their lack of playoff success tells us they're really not so "super" after all.

Nothing super about Jordan. DeAndre that is lol.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2016, 05:53 PM
I was with you up until you said remove James and they still dominate the east.

if you replaced LeBron with a replacement level player, the Cavs are a 40-45 win team that goes home after round 1.

Bostonjorge
07-11-2016, 05:56 PM
Troy Hudson got a huge deal off a playoff series.
Irving just dominated the playoffs not just one series. He even led the teams offense in 3 of the 4 series. In that 4th series Irving did some special things. He had bad games but so did every other player in a Cavs and warriors jersey that series.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 05:56 PM
did you even see Magic's roads to the finals...

Houston wasn't too shabby back then.

Bostonjorge
07-11-2016, 05:59 PM
You replace James with George and they are still a super Cavs team. Can James with the pacers beat George with the Cavs?

Vee-Rex
07-11-2016, 05:59 PM
He is young, and perhaps this playoff run opens his eyes to the fact that day in, day out defense, and ball movement trump playground basketball, which is what he plays. He doesn't play a consistently winning style of basketball.

Ve-Rex, that is always been my problem with him (roping you in, so I don't need to respond to the reply you just gave). Kyrie has never understood how to play winning basketball. He can score, but every single offensive advantage he gives his team, gets cancelled on the other end. And he isn't a video game offensive machine to outweigh that (see Love in Minny).

But like I said, maybe this playoffs wakes him up. I can guarantee you Irving/Love had never seen how much importance every little detail is. You can be naturally awesome, but it don't mean **** if you don't take playing great consistently.

Fair enough!



If you remove James from Cleveland Cavs still dominate the east.


:laugh2:

andy2518
07-11-2016, 06:04 PM
if you replaced LeBron with a replacement level player, the Cavs are a 40-45 win team that goes home after round 1.

I thought something close to that as well. Definitely a first maybe second round exit in the east.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 06:06 PM
You replace James with George and they are still a super Cavs team. Can James with the pacers beat George with the Cavs?

Now that is a much better argument.

lamzoka
07-11-2016, 06:10 PM
GS is a superteam. They can stil make it to the finals without their best player. and I don't even know who their best player is.

Clev is not a superteam. Take their best player out that team and they're an 8 seeder with a first round exit at best.

Chronz
07-11-2016, 06:20 PM
People said the same thing in 2011 and look what happened. Noting is guaranteed, that's why they play the games. There are still injuries, team chemistry, and don't forget that Curry and KD are both known choke artists in the biggest moments of their careers similar to how Lebron was back when he first joined the Heat. KD is only signed for two years with a one year opt out don't forget.

I doubt kd commits career suicide. Nothing is guaranteed? No ****, doesn't mean we ignore probabilities. GS doesn't share the same weaknesses as miamis shallow3 had. This assembly is truly unprecedented so forgive me if i ignore those isolated incidents.

Chronz
07-11-2016, 06:21 PM
GS is a superteam. They can stil make it to the finals without their best player. and I don't even know who their best player is.

Clev is not a superteam. Take their best player out that team and they're an 8 seeder with a first round exit at best.

Based on facts, ur being generous with Cleveland being that good. Based on gut feeling i agree with you.

Tony_Starks
07-11-2016, 06:21 PM
If you want to say they are not a super team after the fact after seeing how the pieces fit that is debatable.

What isn't up for debate is that when Bron, Kyrie, Love were first formed EVERYONE was calling them the new super team and even saying it wasn't fair...Lebron is about to get more rings...blah blah blah.

People on this very forum were arguing up and down that Love was the best PF in the game for Petes sake. As opposed to say Kobe/ LO/ Gasol/ Bynum who Nobody outside of LA saw as stacked before they won a chip.

On topic not sure if anyone noticed but in Hardens statement about his contract he made a point to say "we're not a super team, just a bunch of guys who work hard" (which is bs btw because he was recruiting KD). So I wouldn't discount the notion that other teams feel a certain way about the trend and if one of them were to win it you know the NBA would be completely selling that storyline Big time.

Chronz
07-11-2016, 06:24 PM
You replace James with George and they are still a super Cavs team. Can James with the pacers beat George with the Cavs?
You still tryna suggest this garbage? Lmfao pacers without pg did better than any team without Bron. If those teams are so super, why do they fall apart without James unlike those pacers without pg?

Bostonjorge
07-11-2016, 07:01 PM
You still tryna suggest this garbage? Lmfao pacers without pg did better than any team without Bron. If those teams are so super, why do they fall apart without James unlike those pacers without pg?

Pacers went from 1st to no playoffs. It Miami 1 year to rebound and make the second round in the playoffs. That's without James and bosh.

I know GS is the ultimate super team but I'm not going to pretend teams like SA and Cleveland are just "good" teams.

lol, please
07-11-2016, 07:03 PM
Not likely but just suppose a more "home grown" team like Paul George Pacers or heaven forbid Russ OKC Thunder won, could that change the way this Superteam trend is perceived?

Would that player get more recognition for "winning the right way?" Perhaps change free agents viewpoint on how they want to go about winning?

I know the NBA would love it....

Neither super team? :laugh:

There are two now?

Who is the second? The Bulls? Raptors?

andy2518
07-11-2016, 07:42 PM
I doubt kd commits career suicide. Nothing is guaranteed? No ****, doesn't mean we ignore probabilities. GS doesn't share the same weaknesses as miamis shallow3 had. This assembly is truly unprecedented so forgive me if i ignore those isolated incidents.

Meh, I could easily argue there was a greater talent disparity favoring the 2011 Heat vs. Mavs then there would be with a potential match up Warriors vs. Cavs in 2017 as presently constructed.

andy2518
07-11-2016, 07:48 PM
You still tryna suggest this garbage? Lmfao pacers without pg did better than any team without Bron. If those teams are so super, why do they fall apart without James unlike those pacers without pg?

I don't think he is foolish enough (maybe I don't really know the guy) to make an argument that PG is equally or greater valued than prime Bron was. I think (hope) he was just saying that as currently constructed (Bron no longer in peak and the east being very weak; even more so than usual) the Cavs would most likely be the favorites to make it through the east if you swapped out Bron for a healthy PG.

Vee-Rex
07-11-2016, 08:20 PM
I don't think he is foolish enough (maybe I don't really know the guy) to make an argument that PG is equally or greater valued than prime Bron was. I think (hope) he was just saying that as currently constructed (Bron no longer in peak and the east being very weak; even more so than usual) the Cavs would most likely be the favorites to make it through the east if you swapped out Bron for a healthy PG.

He has a history of being possibly the biggest (minus a few Kobephiles) LeBron-hater on this site. I'm sure you'll see it very soon.

CHANGO
07-11-2016, 09:18 PM
Not likely but just suppose a more "home grown" team like Paul George Pacers or heaven forbid Russ OKC Thunder won, could that change the way this Superteam trend is perceived?

Would that player get more recognition for "winning the right way?" Perhaps change free agents viewpoint on how they want to go about winning?

I know the NBA would love it....

Where are those super teams? Only "super team" I see are the Warriors. LMFAO.

mightybosstone
07-11-2016, 09:46 PM
Fans are starting to really underrate the Spurs. That scares the hell out of me. They may not have Duncan. But they have two of the 20-25 best players in the league, just added a Hall of Fame big man and have the best coach in the game. They're being given like zero credit, and they should be spoken in roughly the same conversation as Golden State and Cleveland. I don't think there's a fourth team that's close to those three.

Tony_Starks
07-11-2016, 10:03 PM
Fans are starting to really underrate the Spurs. That scares the hell out of me. They may not have Duncan. But they have two of the 20-25 best players in the league, just added a Hall of Fame big man and have the best coach in the game. They're being given like zero credit, and they should be spoken in roughly the same conversation as Golden State and Cleveland. I don't think there's a fourth team that's close to those three.

Spurs have a legit shot, you know they're always slept on. It could be argued Duncan more hindered than helped this last playoff run. We've already seen that Pop is more than capable of putting a scheme together to beat the most talented teams.

I believe Pop will coach circles around Kerr if matched up in a series, I worry more about them catching a bad matchup before they get to the Warriors that takes them out.

Dade County
07-11-2016, 10:38 PM
The Cavs are a Super Team, you guys are crazy to think other wise. Le-con regular season record cant fool me.

The Warriors are going to be a special team, maybe the greatest Super Team ever, when the playoffs roll around.

The Spurs are also a Super Team. One of these 3 teams are winning the championship. I cant see all their main players getting injured.

No one else has a chance.

mightybosstone
07-11-2016, 10:56 PM
The Cavs are a Super Team, you guys are crazy to think other wise. Le-con regular season record cant fool me.

The Warriors are going to be a special team, maybe the greatest Super Team ever, when the playoffs roll around.

The Spurs are also a Super Team. One of these 3 teams are winning the championship. I cant see all their main players getting injured.

No one else has a chance.
Are you really hating on the guy who helped your franchise reach four straight titles and win two? What's that like to be so bitter about an athlete who helped your team achieve the most success it's ever had in the entire history of its franchise?

(Note: If you're being sarcastic, I apologize. There's so many posters with so many differing, insane opinions that I can't keep up with all of you anymore.)

Dade County
07-11-2016, 11:14 PM
Are you really hating on the guy who helped your franchise reach four straight titles and win two? What's that like to be so bitter about an athlete who helped your team achieve the most success it's ever had in the entire history of its franchise?

(Note: If you're being sarcastic, I apologize. There's so many posters with so many differing, insane opinions that I can't keep up with all of you anymore.)

I'm not hating on Lbj. I actually believe he's a con-artist along with some other players.

This has nothing to do with Lbj leaving Miami. I believe the leauge manipulates playoff series, & regular season perception of teams and conferences.

Giving false hope to some fan bases.

& it goes both ways when bringing up Lbj titles. Cavs would have never had the pieces if Lbj didn't come to Miami.

Also we hear Lbj talking about he had the blue print. That came from the HEAT organization. So i have no reason to hate on Lbj.

But i will never forget 2011. Lol

aman_13
07-12-2016, 12:00 AM
The Cavs are not a super team.

Bostonjorge
07-12-2016, 12:01 AM
I don't think he is foolish enough (maybe I don't really know the guy) to make an argument that PG is equally or greater valued than prime Bron was. I think (hope) he was just saying that as currently constructed (Bron no longer in peak and the east being very weak; even more so than usual) the Cavs would most likely be the favorites to make it through the east if you swapped out Bron for a healthy PG.
I'm not trying to compare George to James. I'm just pointing out that it's not James leading a non playoff team into the finals. It's James leading the best built east team and most talented team to the finals.

More-Than-Most
07-12-2016, 01:24 AM
The Cavs are not a super team.

Their not even a top 3 team lol....

Warriors
Spurs

Clippers/Cavs/Thunder/Raptors/Pacers

More-Than-Most
07-12-2016, 01:27 AM
I'm not trying to compare George to James. I'm just pointing out that it's not James leading a non playoff team into the finals. It's James leading the best built east team and most talented team to the finals.

Who do you think had an easier road? Cavs going 4 and 0 Against the Pistons/Hawks/Raptors/Warriors or the warriors going 3-1 against who they went against? I will wait.. Also who do you think has the tougher road this year? The East literally has a ton more depth... Outside of a healthy spurs/Clippers there is nothing in the west that could come anywhere close to the warriors.... The East has the raptors/Celtcis/Pacers/Hawks/Knicks/Pistons and I might even be forgetting 1 or 2 teams.... The East even got better this year with the celtics/pacers/hawks/knicks all getting better/healthier.

IKnowHoops
07-12-2016, 01:59 AM
I see the ninja troll attempt by the OP though. Nicely done sir.

You will come to know...that is his speciality...or all he is capable of. Either way, I have come to enjoy his threads because I love reading troll attempts, and even though it is always fairly obvious, Tony is the most fleet of foot with his trolling.

But since you seem to appreciate troll attempts as I do, please do look out for FriedTofu. The boys got talent. Now he is not nearly as ninja as big Tone, but I spit my drink all over my computer screen every time he makes a thread.

Dade County
07-12-2016, 02:05 AM
Who do you think had an easier road? Cavs going 4 and 0 Against the Pistons/Hawks/Raptors/Warriors or the warriors going 3-1 against who they went against? I will wait.. Also who do you think has the tougher road this year? The East literally has a ton more depth... Outside of a healthy spurs/Clippers there is nothing in the west that could come anywhere close to the warriors.... The East has the raptors/Celtcis/Pacers/Hawks/Knicks/Pistons and I might even be forgetting 1 or 2 teams.... The East even got better this year with the celtics/pacers/hawks/knicks all getting better/healthier.

Those East teams that you named, are not contenders either.

More-Than-Most
07-12-2016, 02:20 AM
Those East teams that you named, are not contenders either.

Never said they were... I dont actually believe the cavs are contenders either.. I had a healthy heat team beating the cavs in the playoffs :shrug:

Its all about matchups which people fail to realize.... Hawks are a much better team than people realize but had the unfortunate task of taking on the team that they matched up terrible again in back to back years. That all being said the only actual contenders right now are the spurs/warriors.... Cavs are good but I dont think they stand a chance esp losing some of their depth this year. Those teams might not be contenders but they are the blazers/Grizz either.... They are better for the most part.

Bostonjorge
07-12-2016, 02:22 AM
Who do you think had an easier road? Cavs going 4 and 0 Against the Pistons/Hawks/Raptors/Warriors or the warriors going 3-1 against who they went against? I will wait.. Also who do you think has the tougher road this year? The East literally has a ton more depth... Outside of a healthy spurs/Clippers there is nothing in the west that could come anywhere close to the warriors.... The East has the raptors/Celtcis/Pacers/Hawks/Knicks/Pistons and I might even be forgetting 1 or 2 teams.... The East even got better this year with the celtics/pacers/hawks/knicks all getting better/healthier.

Okc and Memphis would beat every east team not named Cavs. Every single east team you just named are on a tier with the blazers.

More-Than-Most
07-12-2016, 02:40 AM
Okc and Memphis would beat every east team not named Cavs. Every single east team you just named are on a tier with the blazers.

In the regular season the raptors were 2-0 against them... 98-85 and 99-95

Hawks also 2-0 against them

Hawks vs Grizz- Hawks win 116-101
Hawks vs Grizz- Hawks win 95-83

Both of these games werent even as close as the scores suggested :shrug:

The only teams on that list that the grizz had their way with were the pacers/knicks/Pistons.... Celtics were 1-1 against them blowing them out in the win.

Regular season is meaningless though right and your word/assumption means more? Also the hawks/pacers/knocks/celtics all got better this off season as well. That doesnt matter either right?

Bostonjorge
07-12-2016, 04:11 AM
In the regular season the raptors were 2-0 against them... 98-85 and 99-95

Hawks also 2-0 against them

Hawks vs Grizz- Hawks win 116-101
Hawks vs Grizz- Hawks win 95-83

Both of these games werent even as close as the scores suggested :shrug:

The only teams on that list that the grizz had their way with were the pacers/knicks/Pistons.... Celtics were 1-1 against them blowing them out in the win.

Regular season is meaningless though right and your word/assumption means more? Also the hawks/pacers/knocks/celtics all got better this off season as well. That doesnt matter either right?

Memphis is healthy now. They are adding a all NBA player in gasol who's back from injury and Mike is healthy. Then you throw in parsons. Every team you named have no all NBA players. Boston is the only team that took a real step forward. Toronto took a step back because Lowey went from playing like a super star to just another all star. Atlanta lost its best player. Knicks are a wild card we need to see what Rose has left.

Siddhartha
07-12-2016, 06:54 AM
There's just one "Super-team" and that's the Golden State Warriors.

If the 73-9 GSW team of this last season could lose in the finals why couldn't this Durant-improved team?

Dubs vs Cavs part III will be interesting (though a bit repetitive)...

da ThRONe
07-12-2016, 07:15 AM
Not sure how the Cavs are a super team. Outside of LeBron they don't have anybody I'd put in the top 20 players. The Warriors have 3 top 15 players and 2 top 5(arguably top 3).

KnickNyKnick
07-12-2016, 09:08 AM
not long ago the "real" finals was okc vs gsw, and cavs had no chance and now cavs are a superteam :laugh2:

yes but before that, (in last years finals) GSW had no chance if KLove and Irving didnt go down? lots of flip flopping LoL

Tony_Starks
07-12-2016, 09:45 AM
Not sure how the Cavs are a super team. Outside of LeBron they don't have anybody I'd put in the top 20 players. The Warriors have 3 top 15 players and 2 top 5(arguably top 3).

In what bizarro world are Love and Kyrie NOT top 20, at the very least?

Go look at a various player rankings when the team was formed Kyrie and Love were EASY consensus top 20.

This thing where any teammate of Lebron instantly drops 15 points in their player ratings as soon as they play with him gets really old.

da ThRONe
07-12-2016, 09:50 AM
In what bizarro world are Love and Kyrie NOT top 20, at the very least?

Go look at a various player rankings when the team was formed Kyrie and Love were EASY consensus top 20.

This thing where any teammate of Lebron instantly drops 15 points in their player ratings as soon as they play with him gets really old.

Again ranking players is a matter of opinions. However I never had Love in my top 20 even when he was putting up crazy numbers in Minnesota. I guess you can make a case for Irving as a top 20 player, but personally I wouldn't put him there. He's not even top 5 at his position for me. I could run off 20 names of players I think are better than Kyrie Irving. People will be prisoners of the moment, but I don't work like that.

Tony_Starks
07-12-2016, 09:52 AM
You will come to know...that is his speciality...or all he is capable of. Either way, I have come to enjoy his threads because I love reading troll attempts, and even though it is always fairly obvious, Tony is the most fleet of foot with his trolling.

But since you seem to appreciate troll attempts as I do, please do look out for FriedTofu. The boys got talent. Now he is not nearly as ninja as big Tone, but I spit my drink all over my computer screen every time he makes a thread.

Coming from the man with the most ironic name on psd I found this to be extremely amusing.

I enjoy your basketball "knowledge" as much as you enjoy my threads sir. Bravo!

Tony_Starks
07-12-2016, 09:56 AM
Again ranking players is a matter of opinions. However I never had Love in my top 20 even when he was putting up crazy numbers in Minnesota. I guess you can make a case for Irving as a top 20 player, but personally I wouldn't put him there. He's not even top 5 at his position for me. I could run off 20 names of players I think are better than Kyrie Irving. People will be prisoners of the moment, but I don't work like that.

But your personal bias doesn't change the facts. If you don't even have Kyrie top 5 pg that says a lot.

And I never bought the Love hype either, I felt he was overrated and stats were inflated BUT that doesn't change the fact he's one of the best PFs in the game.

Both of those guys are easy top 5 at their position.

Chronz
07-12-2016, 09:57 AM
Pacers went from 1st to no playoffs.
It Miami 1 year to rebound and make the second round in the playoffs. That's without James and bosh.
So Im just suppose to ignore the fact that Miami actually added pieces to offset James departure (Deng, Whiteside and 1/2 season of Dragic), certainly more than Indy added yet the Pacers still finished ahead. Sorry but no one with any sense buys the ******** you're selling. Look at Indy this year with PG back, I dont see them finishing in first ala LeBron James. Hell they barely made the playoffs with PG back didn't they? LMFAO



I know GS is the ultimate super team but I'm not going to pretend teams like SA and Cleveland are just "good" teams.

Cool beans. You take out the best player off the team, shouldn't that super team be able to compete without you? Maybe they are there now but they certainly havent been so in the past. We'll see if Kyrie takes a step as a leader cuz he still struggles playing .500 ball.

PayDaPiper
07-12-2016, 10:04 AM
Not likely but just suppose a more "home grown" team like Paul George Pacers or heaven forbid Russ OKC Thunder won, could that change the way this Superteam trend is perceived?

Would that player get more recognition for "winning the right way?" Perhaps change free agents viewpoint on how they want to go about winning?

I know the NBA would love it....

The Warriors are more "home grown" than the Pacers. George and Turner are the only two drafted by them in their starting five. Teague, Ellis and Young are not

People can criticize the Durant and the Warriors all they want, but the fact is 3 outta their big four were drafted by them. Curry Klay and Dray all drafted. Its not their fault teams like the Wolves picked Rubio and Johnny Flynn over Curry. They hit on 3 great picks and got lucky that Curry's ankles have held up for the most part after signing the best bargain contract in NBA history. This allowed them to have the chance to go after Durant.

Great drafting, smart trades (Bogut and Iggy) and 1 huge FA signing is how the Warriors have done it. Not sure how this can be perceived as not doing it the right way

Chronz
07-12-2016, 10:04 AM
I don't think he is foolish enough (maybe I don't really know the guy) to make an argument that PG is equally or greater valued than prime Bron was. I think (hope) he was just saying that as currently constructed (Bron no longer in peak and the east being very weak; even more so than usual) the Cavs would most likely be the favorites to make it through the east if you swapped out Bron for a healthy PG.
Hes not foolish, just hypocritical. I could see them competing for sure tho, they just wouldn't be the locks they are with Bron. Without Bron those Cavs definitely dont finish #1, hell they prolly finish behind Brons Pacers and they take a nosedive when PG has his annual 2nd half slump.


Meh, I could easily argue there was a greater talent disparity favoring the 2011 Heat vs. Mavs then there would be with a potential match up Warriors vs. Cavs in 2017 as presently constructed.
I could easily destroy such a feeble argument.

da ThRONe
07-12-2016, 10:09 AM
But your personal bias doesn't change the facts. If you don't even have Kyrie top 5 pg that says a lot.

And I never bought the Love hype either, I felt he was overrated and stats were inflated BUT that doesn't change the fact he's one of the best PFs in the game.

Both of those guys are easy top 5 at their position.

Well PF isn't as deep as PG so being top 5 doesn't mean as much for Love(although again I wouldn't rank him as high)

top 5 pg

Curry
Westbrook
Paul
Lillard
Wall

Top 5 PF
Griffin
Aldridge
Davis
Green
Millsap

nycericanguy
07-12-2016, 10:15 AM
a team that has averaged 70 wins the past 2 years, just added a top 3 player in the middle of his prime... still cant believe that, and still cant believe KD went there.

certainly much different than MIA...

Tony_Starks
07-12-2016, 10:28 AM
Well PF isn't as deep as PG so being top 5 doesn't mean as much for Love(although again I wouldn't rank him as high)

top 5 pg

Curry
Westbrook
Paul
Lillard
Wall

Top 5 PF
Griffin
Aldridge
Davis
Green
Millsap

You do agree that you can arguably, reasonably swap out a guy from each of those list and put in Kyrie/ Love right?

So what are we talking about? Two debatable top 5 guys? Two legit all Stars?

That's pretty good.

Chronz
07-12-2016, 11:10 AM
a team that has averaged 70 wins the past 2 years, just added a top 3 player in the middle of his prime... still cant believe that, and still cant believe KD went there.

certainly much different than MIA...

How many wins does Miami finish with if Bron joins Chicago?

IKnowHoops
07-12-2016, 03:52 PM
Coming from the man with the most ironic name on psd I found this to be extremely amusing.

I enjoy your basketball "knowledge" as much as you enjoy my threads sir. Bravo!


For real, keep it real, you like to troll on the sly. You like to play dumb a little bit in your thread titles and in discussion. Like I said, I like it. It mixes things up. And to be fair, I'm not the one who called you out on this particular troll attempt. You always throw in some key words that you know will get to a certain group of people (usually Lebron fans). But again, I've learned your Sith ways and I have come to enjoy them.

Ill teach you anything you want to know about basketball. In return you can lend me your Iron Man Suit.

Bron > Kobe
07-12-2016, 05:35 PM
not long ago the "real" finals was okc vs gsw, and cavs had no chance and now cavs are a superteam :laugh2:
Whats it mean when you have the highest payroll and probably the best player in the league?

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IKnowHoops
07-12-2016, 06:09 PM
Whats it mean when you have the highest payroll and probably the best player in the league?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

It means Golden State has a lot of underpaid players.