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View Full Version : Am I crazy to think the Bulls will be a top 4 team in the East ?



mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 02:36 PM
Rondo
Wade
Butler
Gibson
Lopez

All this talk about the Bulls not making the playoffs with or without Wade makes me scratch my head. You know exactly what you are going to get out of 4 of your 5 starters.

Wade will average 18/4/4. Moving Butler back to his natural position at SF will be an extremely easy transition and the team shouldn't miss a beat. Both Gibson and Lopez will give maximum effort and I am 100% certain (being a Knicks fan) that the Bulls fans will love having Lopez on their squad. The only question mark is Rondo but being on (essentially) a one year deal, what is there to lose ?

It is such a prototypical starting 5 that it looks like it came out of a basketball 101 book.

Distributing Point Guard
Scoring Shooting Guard
Versatile Small Forward
Hustle Power Forward
Rim Protecting Center

As for their bench, Mirotic is no slouch and is probably better than Gibson at this point but will be nice to have as a 6th man. Both Portis and McDermott look the part and should only get better next season. Grant although not a great shooter can get to the basket and should be fine in the backup PG role distributing the ball.

Losing Gasol, Rose and Noah looks terrible on paper, but how many games did they actually play together last year ?

I actually think the Bulls will be in the thick of things in the east and at the very least have a real excited season and a fun team to watch.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 02:38 PM
Butler is an undersized SF.. that's not his natural position by any stretch. Being able to play it well is completely different from being a natural position.

If I'm Chicago, I would try and back out of that Rondo deal or something. Sign a scrub and then get CP3 there for next season. End of your problems.

mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 02:47 PM
Butler is an undersized SF.. that's not his natural position by any stretch. Being able to play it well is completely different from being a natural position.

If I'm Chicago, I would try and back out of that Rondo deal or something. Sign a scrub and then get CP3 there for next season. End of your problems.

Jimmy Butler is 6'7"

He was a SF in college and in his second NBA season. It was actually a surprise to many that he moved to SG in the NBA as most scouts viewed him as a SF in the pros.

kobe4thewinbang
07-07-2016, 02:50 PM
I think the Bulls will be good, at least better than the post-injury D-Rose era. Jimmy Butler is a stud and plays with a lot of fire, and now he's got two other guys that want to win. Rondo should be a wonder again, racking up assists and Wade is still clutch. Gibson I'm not sure about but he and Lopez combined should be good together, or Mirotic will move into the starting lineup because he had some great games and made a lot of open shots due to lax defense, and he should get open shots courtesy of Rondo.

It's kind of sad that they ditched Thibodeau; I don't know much about Hoiberg but how did the Bulls defense change post-Thibodeau, ranking-wise? At least Butler can defend well, Rondo is still far from Harden on defense and Wade somewhat defends.

The only concern I have is injuries for D-Wade and maybe some ego issues, mostly with Wade.

Rondo should do okay and Butler appears to be a cool dude. But Wade might not like Rondo having the ball all the time, which he likes to do and is damn good at, so that might cause some chemistry issues.

LivinLakers
07-07-2016, 02:51 PM
Bulls are definitely making the playoffs. Probably a top 5 seed too. People always look at offensive numbers to determine how good of a player/team they have. But that team there is a really good defensive team and will certainly be in the thick of it amongst the 2nd tier teams.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 02:52 PM
Jimmy Butler is 6'7"

He was a SF in college and in his second NBA season. It was actually a surprise to many that he moved to SG in the NBA as most scouts viewed him as a SF in the pros.

Playing SF in college is completely different on the NBA level where you're playing against players who are fully grown. I never said he can't play SF but he did so while playing only 26 minutes and wasn't a star like he is today. His natural position thus far has been more SG than SF; which is why he has played SG the majority of his professional career. He's also about 6'6-6'7 if we're being fair.

InRoseWeTrust
07-07-2016, 02:54 PM
I think we're a 5-6 seed. Time will tell, but we've got to make pieces fit right now.

Chronz
07-07-2016, 02:59 PM
Butler is an undersized SF.. that's not his natural position by any stretch. Being able to play it well is completely different from being a natural position.

If I'm Chicago, I would try and back out of that Rondo deal or something. Sign a scrub and then get CP3 there for next season. End of your problems.

Agreed. Bulls fans kept telling me Dunleavy being around didn't effect much because teams put their best wing on Butler regardless but I think theres a difference in gravity/space when you play with someone bigger than you who can also shoot vs not. Like I would still see him post more when he was with Dunleavy.

dhopisthename
07-07-2016, 03:03 PM
career 3pt% of the starting 5
Rondo 28.9%
Wade 28.4%
Butler-32.8%
Taj-.045%
Robin Lopez-0%

they don't have a single guy you fear behind the line shooting. teams are just going to play zone against that offense and force them to hit shots and it might get ugly. They have to get shooting in that starting lineup or they won't be able to score much more then 80.

Scoots
07-07-2016, 03:04 PM
They could be top 4 in the east just because there are still so many questions in the east it makes the whole conference difficult to predict.

Boston, Toronto, New York, Indiana, Detroit, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Washington, Atlanta, and Orlando have all made a lot of changes ... it's nearly impossible to predict where they will land.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 03:07 PM
They can be between 2-6. But does it really matter?

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:08 PM
career 3pt% of the starting 5
Rondo 28.9%
Wade 28.4%
Butler-32.8%
Taj-.045%
Robin Lopez-0%

they don't have a single guy you fear behind the line shooting. teams are just going to play zone against that offense and force them to hit shots and it might get ugly. They have to get shooting in that starting lineup or they won't be able to score much more then 80.

Mirotic is probably going to start for them at the 4. Doug will play the 3 and that slides Jimmy Butler back to the SG role if they are undersized.

mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 03:12 PM
career 3pt% of the starting 5
Rondo 28.9%
Wade 28.4%
Butler-32.8%
Taj-.045%
Robin Lopez-0%

they don't have a single guy you fear behind the line shooting. teams are just going to play zone against that offense and force them to hit shots and it might get ugly. They have to get shooting in that starting lineup or they won't be able to score much more then 80.

Mirotec was near 40% from 3 last year
McDermott was at 43%
Snell 36%

While I agree that their starting 5 lacks long range shooters, their bench guys can help fill that void. Hell, even Aaron Brooks can hit an open 3.

Chronz
07-07-2016, 03:14 PM
Jimmy Butler is 6'7"

He was a SF in college and in his second NBA season. It was actually a surprise to many that he moved to SG in the NBA as most scouts viewed him as a SF in the pros.
Its not that he cant play the 3 its just I think its important to keep him at the 2 while he can still play it. Eventually everyone moves down a position as they age but if you can sustain the same production while playing a position of less resistance, its best for longevity. If he plays alongside a true 3, it gives him chances to post up smaller guards in the rare moments that pop up in semi transition and what not. Its also easier to switch out when you have a tall SG. I still like him and Wade but not with Rondo.

blams
07-07-2016, 03:15 PM
Mirotec was near 40% from 3 last year
McDermott was at 43%
Snell 36%

While I agree that their starting 5 lacks long range shooters, their bench guys can help fill that void. Hell, even Aaron Brooks can hit an open 3.

I hope tony snell dies. He's awful.

GoferKing_
07-07-2016, 03:19 PM
Emm... East is grabage, they an place between 2-6. But it does not matter, they need to rebuild just like every other team not namesd GSW, CAVS or Spurs.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:20 PM
Emm... East is grabage, they an place between 2-6. But it does not matter, they need to rebuild just like every other team not namesd GSW, CAVS or Spurs.

They just got a lot better.. idk if you have paid attention.

Crackadalic
07-07-2016, 03:21 PM
The talent level 3-13 is so damn close its hard to predict who will seed where.

Bulls and Knicks can be a top 5 team in the east or bottom lottery team. Hardest prediction in a while honestly

Crackadalic
07-07-2016, 03:23 PM
Emm... East is grabage, they an place between 2-6. But it does not matter, they need to rebuild just like every other team not namesd GSW, CAVS or Spurs.

The east had a 8th seed win 44 games and two teams finish 500 or better out of the playoffs. But the east is garbage right?

The west was only 14 games over 500 against the east and a lot of it come from the top 4 teams last season

West outside the top 4 is pretty weak compare to other years. The east is on the rise

mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 03:24 PM
Emm... East is grabage, they an place between 2-6. But it does not matter, they need to rebuild just like every other team not namesd GSW, CAVS or Spurs.

How exactly do you rebuild though ?

Trade away Butler/Mirotic/Gibson for draft picks and enter into 76er mode ? No offense to Philly, but what has that got them so far ?

and whats to say that LeBron doesn't blow out his ACL midway through the season ? I wouldn't wish that on anybody but this notion of rebuild or luck out and get a premier free agency is just not realistic. You have to still try and field a competitive team so long as your roster is not bare.

TheDish87
07-07-2016, 03:24 PM
just like NY they are prob a 6-8 seed (higher ceiling though). I cant imagine this combo of Butler/Rondo/Wade being all that effective. This is probably the worst use of cap space you could imagine to build around a star player. Gibson should be coming off the bench and Mitoric should start to provide some spacing since that group in the OP has absolutely none.

D-Leethal
07-07-2016, 03:27 PM
They need to get rid of Rondo. You can't win in today's league without spacing.

Vee-Rex
07-07-2016, 03:27 PM
I think we're a 5-6 seed. Time will tell, but we've got to make pieces fit right now.

I definitely see this as realistic.

Bulls were fighting for a playoff spot this past year even with all those injuries. I realize Gasol is gone but a healthy Jimmy Buckets and the addition of Wade is solid.

I get what people say about 3-point shooting but I really think this team is gonna surprise many. Wade is a helluva intelligent player. I dare say he rivals LeBron and is a big reason why LeBron's BBIQ has grown to where it is now. Wade's gonna get that team on the right track especially mentally.

The only problem is that all of this is just temporary. Wade is gonna be 35 in January, Rondo isn't a great long-term piece, Hoiberg isn't really looking like a good coach, and GarPax should be fired. They both suck, Gar more than Pax though.

Still, I see the Bulls making some noise in the Eastern Conference next year.

TheDish87
07-07-2016, 03:28 PM
How exactly do you rebuild though ?

Trade away Butler/Mirotic/Gibson for draft picks and enter into 76er mode ? No offense to Philly, but what has that got them so far ?

and whats to say that LeBron doesn't blow out his ACL midway through the season ? I wouldn't wish that on anybody but this notion of rebuild or luck out and get a premier free agency is just not realistic. You have to still try and field a competitive team so long as your roster is not bare.

its gotten the Sixers in a desirable position going forward, its surely better than what the Bulls have decided to go with. I thought Chicago would be an atrtractive FA destination with Butler this year and/or next but these moves are dumb.

RLundi
07-07-2016, 03:28 PM
Yes you are.

They'll be the 7th or 8th seed.

GoferKing_
07-07-2016, 03:30 PM
The east had a 8th seed win 44 games and two teams finish 500 or better out of the playoffs. But the east is garbage right?

The west was only 14 games over 500 against the east and a lot of it come from the top 4 teams last season

West outside the top 4 is pretty weak compare to other years. The east is on the rise

When you play 4 times with teams such as 76ers, Knicks, Brooklyn and Bucks then it is not a surprise.

Alayla
07-07-2016, 03:36 PM
When you play 4 times with teams such as 76ers, Knicks, Brooklyn and Bucks then it is not a surprise.

??? the bucks are a very talented young team

The Lakers Suns Timberwolves and Kings are looking no better honestly so this honestly seems like your personal bias talking.

PS like the Bucks (maybe moreso) the Timberwolves have a very nice future ahead of them hence why I used them as an example in my counter argument.

RLundi
07-07-2016, 03:36 PM
When you play 4 times with teams such as 76ers, Knicks, Brooklyn and Bucks then it is not a surprise.

Of the 10 worst teams in the NBA, 6 of them resided in the west last season.

Philly- east
Lakers- west
Nets- east
Suns- west
Wolves- west
Pelicans- west
Knicks- east
Bucks-east
Nuggets-west
Kings- west

The east was right there with the west last season. The gap has all but closed. The west is more top-heavy but the east is far deeper.

mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 03:37 PM
its gotten the Sixers in a desirable position going forward, its surely better than what the Bulls have decided to go with. I thought Chicago would be an atrtractive FA destination with Butler this year and/or next but these moves are dumb.

I don't want to get off track here and turn this into a 76er debate but I would much rather have the Bulls roster going forward. Butler is far and away better than anything Philly at the moment. The 76ers also have a serious log jam in the front court yet no one to run the point. Yes, trades will come for them but they have just as far to go as Chicago does in terms of building a "desirable" roster. Add in the fact that no free agents are going to bolt to play in Philly and IDK, just not seeing it.

TheDish87
07-07-2016, 03:42 PM
not trying to turn the discussion, but its worth mentioning i would take the Sixers current situation over the Bulls current situation 100 times out of 100. The Bulls arent contenders and have average young talent to grow and build with and they havent signed a major FA in a long time.. The GM needs to be fired and prob will if this seasons busts. This was a poor use of cap space to say the least.

Alayla
07-07-2016, 03:48 PM
I don't want to get off track here and turn this into a 76er debate but I would much rather have the Bulls roster going forward. Butler is far and away better than anything Philly at the moment. The 76ers also have a serious log jam in the front court yet no one to run the point. Yes, trades will come for them but they have just as far to go as Chicago does in terms of building a "desirable" roster. Add in the fact that no free agents are going to bolt to play in Philly and IDK, just not seeing it.

Philly will honestly surprise a lot of people this season
Adding Simmons Embiid Saric Luwawu and Korkmaz
Then Signing Sergio Rodriguez (over seas PG supposedly playing very well over there) Jerryd Bayless (great fit with Simmons and Saric) and Gerald Henderson (meh).
That is almost an entire roster overhaul.
That is disregarding existing players getting older and improving the sixers offseason is very underrated right now and I feel like this is the year everything will start coming together.

Not to mention with the sac swap our own pick the LA pick and the 2019 Sac pick we have a shitload of assets to pull of a big move if the situation strikes.
How anyone can say we are in a bad situation at this point is beyond me honestly our situation could only be more promising as a young team if we where the Timberwolves haha.

No one ever said these players all need to develop into our future anyone not named Simmons or Embiid is available and with such high picks as well we have all the assets you would hope for to pull of a major trade.

mudvayne387
07-07-2016, 04:00 PM
Philly will honestly surprise a lot of people this season
Adding Simmons Embiid Saric Luwawu and Korkmaz
Then Signing Sergio Rodriguez (over seas PG supposedly playing very well over there) Jerryd Bayless (great fit with Simmons and Saric) and Gerald Henderson (meh).
That is almost an entire roster overhaul.
That is disregarding existing players getting older and improving the sixers offseason is very underrated right now and I feel like this is the year everything will start coming together.

Not to mention with the sac swap our own pick the LA pick and the 2019 Sac pick we have a shitload of assets to pull of a big move if the situation strikes.
How anyone can say we are in a bad situation at this point is beyond me honestly our situation could only be more promising as a young team if we where the Timberwolves haha.

No one ever said these players all need to develop into our future anyone not named Simmons or Embiid is available and with such high picks as well we have all the assets you would hope for to pull of a major trade.

Hey I hope they do, I have absolutely nothing against Philly. I just feel they still don't have a difference maker on their roster comparable to Butler. Maybe it is Simmons and maybe it's Embid IDK.

Crackadalic
07-07-2016, 04:03 PM
When you play 4 times with teams such as 76ers, Knicks, Brooklyn and Bucks then it is not a surprise.

The Knicks had 32 wins in 13th place. Last time 30 win team was 13th was 04.

Bucks is a good team that just suffered from a better eastern conference.

You can give that same reasoning for GS/Spurs/OKC/Clippers beating on the bad teams too but hey just wanted to call you out on your bad trolling job

GoferKing_
07-07-2016, 05:09 PM
Ok dudes, you proved me wrong. :)

Scoots
07-07-2016, 05:37 PM
The East is probably better than it was 3 years ago, but it's SO torn up right now there is no predicting it. The fact that the Cavs practically waltzed through the playoffs leaves an impression about the strength of the rest of the conference.

No doubt the East have closed the gap. Anybody arguing otherwise isn't paying attention.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:40 PM
The East is probably better than it was 3 years ago, but it's SO torn up right now there is no predicting it. The fact that the Cavs practically waltzed through the playoffs leaves an impression about the strength of the rest of the conference.

No doubt the East have closed the gap. Anybody arguing otherwise isn't paying attention.

How was the Warriors road to the playoffs any more difficult than the Cavs other than the Thunder? Thunder was the only team with the horrible path along with Spurs. The other teams were just as good as any EC team in the playoffs.

Mavs
Houston
LAC (injuries)
Portland
Grizzlies

Not exactly tough teams.

DaBear
07-07-2016, 05:46 PM
Do most of you realize the Bulls can part with Rondo in 2017 and essentially have enough space for 2 max contracts?

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:48 PM
Do most of you realize the Bulls can part with Rondo in 2017 and essentially have enough space for 2 max contracts?

Yeah, that's the part I think most are underestimating. I don't think Bulls are trying to win now but are prepping for a 2-3 year retooling journey. CP3 will sign with Bulls after next season and who knows? Maybe LeBron comes in as well?

Ray
07-07-2016, 06:28 PM
The East is so watered down now. Honestly this Bulls team would have a really good chance to beat any other team in the East in a 7 game series other than probably Cleveland. And then in 2017 will have enough money to sign 2 max players. Overall a good signing for the Bulls.

CardinalRed24
07-07-2016, 08:08 PM
My only major concern with this team is health. Mainly DWade...I just don't trust him staying healthy long term. If he does, that's great. He's still all-star caliber. But he's really starting to get up there in age and to me, hes not anywhere near worth the $$ the Bulls are paying him.
Imo, Pat Riley absolutely made the right call

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-07-2016, 08:11 PM
career 3pt% of the starting 5
Rondo 28.9%
Wade 28.4%
Butler-32.8%
Taj-.045%
Robin Lopez-0%

they don't have a single guy you fear behind the line shooting. teams are just going to play zone against that offense and force them to hit shots and it might get ugly. They have to get shooting in that starting lineup or they won't be able to score much more then 80.

Long arms for defense will kill them. Hope my Bucks feast on them.

CardinalRed24
07-07-2016, 08:14 PM
Do I think the Bulls are a top 4 seed? It all comes down to their health. IF their starting lineup stays healthy, they have a good shot at a #3 or #4 seed.
I actually do think a backcourt of Rondo/Wade is pretty intruiging, but there's def plenty of question marks that won't be answered till next season starts.

Either way, this is one hell of an offseason thus far! Damn!

lol, please
07-08-2016, 01:34 AM
Rondo
Wade
Butler
Gibson
Lopez

All this talk about the Bulls not making the playoffs with or without Wade makes me scratch my head. You know exactly what you are going to get out of 4 of your 5 starters.

Wade will average 18/4/4. Moving Butler back to his natural position at SF will be an extremely easy transition and the team shouldn't miss a beat. Both Gibson and Lopez will give maximum effort and I am 100% certain (being a Knicks fan) that the Bulls fans will love having Lopez on their squad. The only question mark is Rondo but being on (essentially) a one year deal, what is there to lose ?

It is such a prototypical starting 5 that it looks like it came out of a basketball 101 book.

Distributing Point Guard
Scoring Shooting Guard
Versatile Small Forward
Hustle Power Forward
Rim Protecting Center

As for their bench, Mirotic is no slouch and is probably better than Gibson at this point but will be nice to have as a 6th man. Both Portis and McDermott look the part and should only get better next season. Grant although not a great shooter can get to the basket and should be fine in the backup PG role distributing the ball.

Losing Gasol, Rose and Noah looks terrible on paper, but how many games did they actually play together last year ?

I actually think the Bulls will be in the thick of things in the east and at the very least have a real excited season and a fun team to watch.

I don't think it's crazy at all. They basically were last year without Wade.

BKLYNpigeon
07-08-2016, 01:53 AM
This is the worst Bulls team ever constructed. lol

Knicks are probably better.


You got 3 guys, Rondo, Wade an Butler who constantly need the ball in their hands to dribble around and they can't shoot the ball that well. Sounds like Disaster.

BKLYNpigeon
07-08-2016, 01:56 AM
Last season is was, is it Rose's Team or Butlers?

Bulls trading away Rose. So its your team now Butler.

Now Bulls bring in their native son HOF Dwayne Wade. now theres a weird power struggle.

Then you have Rondo saying its Butlers team today.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-08-2016, 02:01 AM
This is the worst Bulls team ever constructed. lol

Knicks are probably better.


You got 3 guys, Rondo, Wade an Butler who constantly need the ball in their hands to dribble around and they can't shoot the ball that well. Sounds like Disaster.

Really?

Let's see 2 seasons ago we were the 3rd seed with a starting lineup that hardly played together in Rose - Butler - Dunleavy - Gasol - Noah. In fact, Rose was gone with the knee surgery in February and didn't return until the last week of the season. So basically it was Kirk Hinrich/Aaron Brooks who was starting from February to April. Let's not also forget Rose missed plenty of games before the knee surgery that season as well.

So now we're basically replacing Rose with a healthy Rondo who is a much more efficient PG, we're replacing Mike Dunleavy with Dwayne Wade..nothing to be said there..and the only loss that matters here is Gasol who had a great season that year. BUT if we're replacing Gasol with Mirotic who plays better defense than the zero defense Gasol plays, he should be able to make up for that scoring having more opportunities for open looks with Rondo running the point.

My point is barring injuries, this team is better talent-wise than the team that finished as the 3rd seed 2 seasons ago.

TylerSL
07-08-2016, 02:03 AM
Not gonna lie, I hope they lose 50 games at least. However that's just the bitterness in me (I'm going to be bitter for long time). Honestly though they will probably end up being decent. They will not be #4 in the East next season but I believe they will get #5 or #6 in the playoffs, barring they stay healthy. I expect them to have a decently improved defense (they were 15th in defensive efficiency last year) but with no 3 point capabilities, they are going to go through spurts without scoring. The one thing they do have going for them is they will probably get to the line often, though Wade and Rondo are disappointing free throw shooters. Gun to my head I'd say they go something like 44-38.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-08-2016, 02:03 AM
And yes I forgot to mention the most important thing that Thibs was the coach as well, but I'm not counting out Hoiberg just yet, he dealt with a lot of **** last season. Wade's presence and leadership skills will be great for this group.

europagnpilgrim
07-08-2016, 02:11 AM
I think the Bulls will be good, at least better than the post-injury D-Rose era. Jimmy Butler is a stud and plays with a lot of fire, and now he's got two other guys that want to win. Rondo should be a wonder again, racking up assists and Wade is still clutch. Gibson I'm not sure about but he and Lopez combined should be good together, or Mirotic will move into the starting lineup because he had some great games and made a lot of open shots due to lax defense, and he should get open shots courtesy of Rondo.

It's kind of sad that they ditched Thibodeau; I don't know much about Hoiberg but how did the Bulls defense change post-Thibodeau, ranking-wise? At least Butler can defend well, Rondo is still far from Harden on defense and Wade somewhat defends.

The only concern I have is injuries for D-Wade and maybe some ego issues, mostly with Wade.

Rondo should do okay and Butler appears to be a cool dude. But Wade might not like Rondo having the ball all the time, which he likes to do and is damn good at, so that might cause some chemistry issues.

everything you said is pretty much on point outside of Wade might not like Rondo having the ball all the time since he did play 4 years with a ball dominant type guy in Lebron, who also like Rondo is a willing passer, more so than Lebron since he cant score at the same level, Rondo is exactly what Wade needs at this stage of his career since Wade can post up and still drive to the cup when needed, Rondo will do what he did in his early Boston days, push the pace and find Wade/Butler and the two good shooters they have will love the open looks also that Rondo will provide

everything takes time so they better get it all figured out come training camp and I believe they will since both Rondo and Wade have ship(4 rings combined+ 7 finals trips ) experience and Butler is about as hungry a player you can get who probably wants a taste of that success

More-Than-Most
07-08-2016, 02:20 AM
I think my top teams will go like this

Cavs

Raptors/Hawks
Boston/Pacers
Knicks

Charlotte/Bulls/Pistons/Wizards/Magic/Heat....

The East is stacked in terms of depth so mix and match every team after the knicks and I wont be mad.


I cant see any argument for them as a top 4 team sorry.

europagnpilgrim
07-08-2016, 02:26 AM
Really?

Let's see 2 seasons ago we were the 3rd seed with a starting lineup that hardly played together in Rose - Butler - Dunleavy - Gasol - Noah. In fact, Rose was gone with the knee surgery in February and didn't return until the last week of the season. So basically it was Kirk Hinrich/Aaron Brooks who was starting from February to April. Let's not also forget Rose missed plenty of games before the knee surgery that season as well.

So now we're basically replacing Rose with a healthy Rondo who is a much more efficient PG, we're replacing Mike Dunleavy with Dwayne Wade..nothing to be said there..and the only loss that matters here is Gasol who had a great season that year. BUT if we're replacing Gasol with Mirotic who plays better defense than the zero defense Gasol plays, he should be able to make up for that scoring having more opportunities for open looks with Rondo running the point.

My point is barring injuries, this team is better talent-wise than the team that finished as the 3rd seed 2 seasons ago.

The East also as a whole has gotten better from 2 years ago top to bottom but I still think the Bulls can finish anywhere from 2-6th seed, depends on the health and how well they mesh as a unit, starters and bench

MonroeFAN
07-08-2016, 07:09 AM
Double post.

MonroeFAN
07-08-2016, 07:11 AM
The east got a lot better, after already having youth on their side for the most part (natural progression). The Bulls offer none of that, and while we're at it, the Knicks don't either although I like that Courtney Lee move a lot.

Both teams look like a bunch of spare parts, and I doubt either makes the playoffs beyond a 7-8th seed.

MonroeFAN
07-08-2016, 07:19 AM
Really?


So now we're basically replacing Rose with a healthy Rondo who is a much more efficient PG , we're replacing Mike Dunleavy with Dwayne Wade..nothing to be said there..and the only loss that matters here is Gasol who had a great season that year. BUT if we're replacing Gasol with Mirotic who plays better defense than the zero defense Gasol plays, he should be able to make up for that scoring having more opportunities for open looks with Rondo running the point.

My point is barring injuries, this team is better talent-wise than the team that finished as the 3rd seed 2 seasons ago.

So basically you added 2 players who need the ball and cannot shoot, and removed at least 2 players who don't need the ball, and can shoot.

I'm not sure how this roster makes sense in anyone's head. Mirotic isn't a big. He's a project. You have nothing up top and a bunch of players who can't shoot the rock.

DboneG
07-08-2016, 07:37 AM
"You got 3 guys, Rondo, Wade an Butler who constantly need the ball in their hands to dribble around and they can't shoot the ball that well. Sounds like Disaster."..........Correct.


All three guys are play makers, and need the ball in their hands. Interesting to see how this works out. WELL WE KINDA KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK OUT. Rondo is his own man, he don't listen too well, he had problems in Boston, Dallas, did what he wanted in Sac. So, will it change in Chicago? No. He's the point guard, so he will have the ball.

Butler and Wade....one of these guys are going to suffer. Will Butler do the "I'm tha man" thing and ruin the team...or will he curtain-tail his game a bit and allow D-Wade to do his thing?

3pt. shooting is a concern, but, not too much. All three guys are known to make big plays and big shots. A 3pt. play is the same as, if not better than a 3pt. shot! Right? RIGHT?


A top 4 team in the East? That's tough! It depends...on who round out the bench, the coach(he's still learning on the job. He's not good at rotations, communication, or adjustments), and Jimmy Butler. If Butler will cede a bit to D-Wade.

SiteWolf
07-08-2016, 08:40 AM
Now I'm not comparing the talent levels directly because that would be silly.....but I do have to laugh, because there's 3 guys, all used to having the ball in their hands and taking a lot of shots...can't work many say regarding the Bulls.....some of the same people that talk about how WELL that same situation WILL work...with GS.

Sly Guy
07-08-2016, 09:18 AM
I see a lack of outside shooting in their backcourt. In today's NBA, I don't think you can be elite without being a little bit of an outside threat.

RowBTrice
07-08-2016, 09:47 AM
On paper, they could finish as high as the 2nd seed. But, they have a lot of new pieces that will need to develop some chemistry with each other and the rest of the team, and 3 of those new pieces are projected as starters. Heck, even some of the existing Bulls still have question marks (Niko, DMD, Valentine.) I think they'll definitely end up in the playoffs, but not a serious shot at winning the East.

Captain Moroni
07-08-2016, 09:50 AM
The a East is wide open, the Bulls should make the playoffs.
Signing Rondo and Wade really makes little sense.
They should have built for the future instead of trying to appease an upset fanbase.
These guys will not mesh.
Three point shots will be few.
7-8 seed

Stunner
07-08-2016, 09:55 AM
Playing SF in college is completely different on the NBA level where you're playing against players who are fully grown. I never said he can't play SF but he did so while playing only 26 minutes and wasn't a star like he is today. His natural position thus far has been more SG than SF; which is why he has played SG the majority of his professional career. He's also about 6'6-6'7 if we're being fair.

No get your facts right Jimmy Butler is actually borderline 6'8 , that is his combine height he was measured at . http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/


If Leonard can be a SF who actually is a legit 6'7 then so can Butler .


Butler wasn't advanced offensively as he is now back when he played SF but he was good on the defensive end .


So teams still put their best wing defenders on butler mostly SF and he still shown effectiveness over the last two years so really it doesn't matter lol . Jimmy will see the same defensive assignments at the 3 that he did the 2 . But prob the positive is Jimmy gets back to playing off ball which he's good at in slashing and spot up corner 3's . Jimmy can shoot when assisted but his 3 % took a dip cuz he took too many off the dribble 3's and his knee messed up he couldn't get lift .


Jimmy had to play SG based on the roster Bulls haven't signed a SG that was capable of allowing Jimmy to move back to the 3 till now .

mia1619
07-08-2016, 09:58 AM
I think this team will have a lot of difficulty as currently constructed making the playoffs. The Heat had better shooting around Wade last year and still were one of the worst shooting teams in the league.

I get them adding Wade as a piece to attract future stars, but the combo of him with one of ROndo/butler would be bad enough, but with both of them? Awful.

This team would have fit in great in the 80's, but they are gonna be bad. And you better hope that rondo and Wade give any effort defensively.

Bulls fans are about to find out what the Heat front office and fans have been noticing since Lebron got here in 2010. Wade very rarely gives effort on defense unless its a huge game or at the end of the 4th quarter. Wade has this reputation as a quality defendre but he really isnt at this point and his effort is piss poor at times.

This bulls team tops out at 45 wins if everything goes right.

Stunner
07-08-2016, 10:00 AM
I don't think it's crazy at all. They basically were last year without Wade.

Yea Bulls had a top 3 seeds in the first week of February then Jimmy got hurt and was out for like a month and some days and he still wasn't recovered and playing hurt . Crazy this still barely made the playoffs with all their injuries . Jimmy doesn't get hurt Bulls prob will 45 -47 games .

mia1619
07-08-2016, 10:03 AM
Really?

Let's see 2 seasons ago we were the 3rd seed with a starting lineup that hardly played together in Rose - Butler - Dunleavy - Gasol - Noah. In fact, Rose was gone with the knee surgery in February and didn't return until the last week of the season. So basically it was Kirk Hinrich/Aaron Brooks who was starting from February to April. Let's not also forget Rose missed plenty of games before the knee surgery that season as well.

So now we're basically replacing Rose with a healthy Rondo who is a much more efficient PG, we're replacing Mike Dunleavy with Dwayne Wade..nothing to be said there..and the only loss that matters here is Gasol who had a great season that year. BUT if we're replacing Gasol with Mirotic who plays better defense than the zero defense Gasol plays, he should be able to make up for that scoring having more opportunities for open looks with Rondo running the point.

My point is barring injuries, this team is better talent-wise than the team that finished as the 3rd seed 2 seasons ago.

No its not at all. First off, taking away Gasol isnt some minor thing. He is one of the best players at his position and the only person on that team at that point who could make his own shot. Mirotic is nothing defensively either.
Rondo also stinks.I dont know what you guys think he is but 1- he isnt efficient and 2- he's a stat stuffer who isnt as good as his stats say he is.

And Joakim Noah was also an MVP candidate that season and your number 1 player. You seem to have forgot about him.

this team is not only not that good but they don't fit together at all and have absolutely no shooting. This was a move for future free agents, not to compete this year. Plus at best this is like a 6 seed.

Stunner
07-08-2016, 10:06 AM
Rondo seems a lot more wiser now angry Karl was just glowing about him on the radio yesterday . Rondo will be the real key for the Bulls to go next year , so far rondo has said all the right things In Chicago . Rondo putting away his past with Wade to go recruit him shows about his character . Wade / Ro / Jimmy love to win and hate losing so they have that in common . If Ro gives me what he gave the Kings last year but tries to play defense more we will be in good shape .

pacofunk64
07-08-2016, 10:43 AM
career 3pt% of the starting 5
Rondo 28.9%
Wade 28.4%
Butler-32.8%
Taj-.045%
Robin Lopez-0%

they don't have a single guy you fear behind the line shooting. teams are just going to play zone against that offense and force them to hit shots and it might get ugly. They have to get shooting in that starting lineup or they won't be able to score much more then 80.

This right here!! As soon as we traded away Dunleavy and Calderon I was like what the **** are we doing. Look those guys aren't great but they are 40% 3pt shooters! We play in the East so making the playoffs shouldn't be hard but I think we are going to see some really bad offensive games at times.

TheDish87
07-08-2016, 10:45 AM
Rondo didnt really give the Kings anything though. Sure it looks good he led the league in assists but he chases them to stat pad, similar to how like David Lee or Love dont defend but can chase balls are avg 10+ boards.

FlashBolt
07-08-2016, 01:03 PM
This right here!! As soon as we traded away Dunleavy and Calderon I was like what the **** are we doing. Look those guys aren't great but they are 40% 3pt shooters! We play in the East so making the playoffs shouldn't be hard but I think we are going to see some really bad offensive games at times.

The narrative that playing in the East and getting into the playoffs is somewhat easier is no longer the case.

Scoots
07-08-2016, 01:17 PM
This right here!! As soon as we traded away Dunleavy and Calderon I was like what the **** are we doing. Look those guys aren't great but they are 40% 3pt shooters! We play in the East so making the playoffs shouldn't be hard but I think we are going to see some really bad offensive games at times.

Moore, Holiday, Dunleavy, and Calderon ... that's a lot of shooting to lose.

Valentine can shoot the college 3, but he's hardly an unlimited range kind of guy.

It's a good thing Bulls fans really love Hinrich and Snell since they are 2 of the Bulls top remaining shooters :)

Stunner
07-08-2016, 01:27 PM
Moore, Holiday, Dunleavy, and Calderon ... that's a lot of shooting to lose.

Valentine can shoot the college 3, but he's hardly an unlimited range kind of guy.

It's a good thing Bulls fans really love Hinrich and Snell since they are 2 of the Bulls top remaining shooters :)

Don't be a corn ball , Niko shot 39% last year , Doug shot above 40% , Valentine shot beyond the college 3 at 44% and 2 years prior pretty good too . Portis can stretch the floor too but hopefully he improves too , holiday ....... Holiday , Moore yes he will be missed , don't really care about Calderon , Dunleavy yea but he's old and has back problems , Kirk not even here , snell who gives a damn . Butler actually shown he can shoot the 3 in the past at a high clip , thing is he took some bad threes off the dribble last season . He's a good catch and shoot guy and shoots above 40% on corner 3's .


Hopefully we go out and get more shooters tho

mavwar53
07-08-2016, 01:27 PM
My question with the Bull is how will the big 3 play off the ball. To me, Rondo must have the ball in his hands to be effective. Wade is most effective when handling the ball, Butleris probably the best of the 3 off the ball but doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to run off picks constantly or just stand in a corner.

I'll be honest, the Warriors have been so enjoyable to watch that it's been hard to watch other teams the last 2 years with the awful ball movement and I haven't watche Chicago or Miami enough to say anything definitively about wade or butler but Rondo is garbage off the ball.

I like Taj, Lopez, McDermott, Merotic, for the hustle, defense and spread the floor ability but those guys will be on the floor 2 at a time if the main 3 are on the court 30+ m/g.

kobe4thewinbang
07-08-2016, 01:28 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bulls-three-alphas-butlers-team-005849291.html

Rondo reportedly acknowledges my concern about egos becoming an issue in Chicago, saying there are now three alphas in Chicago but isolating Butler as the 'leader'. Rondo I'm not so worried about. It's Wade that might let his ego run wild.

Tony_Starks
07-08-2016, 01:32 PM
You're not crazy, it's very possible.

But it is the east.

nycericanguy
07-08-2016, 01:32 PM
Wade, Butler & Rondo is a really odd fit... I don't think anyone would ever choose those 3 guys if they were starting a team from scratch. I think it would fit much better without Rondo and with a PG that can just defend and shoot.

But I would never count against Wade, he's still a great player and clutch.

I just wonder though, is Rondo even good anymore? Does he actually make teams better? He seems like more of a name now than anything. For the past 4 years the teams he's been on have been substantially better when Rondo was OFF the court... you have to go back to 2011-12 when Rondo was actually a positive and that was prime Rondo before the injuries.

Ray
07-08-2016, 01:55 PM
While I agree that the 3pt shooting will be a concern with the starting lineup, their bench is full of guys who can shoot.

But another thing that people are overlooking is how well Jimmy and Wade can get to the line. Both are in the top 6 among shooting guards last year which I think will make up for the lack of 3pt shooting.

nycericanguy
07-08-2016, 02:25 PM
While I agree that the 3pt shooting will be a concern with the starting lineup, their bench is full of guys who can shoot.

But another thing that people are overlooking is how well Jimmy and Wade can get to the line. Both are in the top 6 among shooting guards last year which I think will make up for the lack of 3pt shooting.

it's not just 3pt shooting, it's having 3 ball dominant guards.

I agree they have some good 3pt shooters on the bench, but ideally you want to be able to close out games with your 3 best players and still have good shooting.

I wonder if CHI thought they had a shot at Wade when they signed Rondo?

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-08-2016, 04:23 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bulls-three-alphas-butlers-team-005849291.html

Rondo reportedly acknowledges my concern about egos becoming an issue in Chicago, saying there are now three alphas in Chicago but isolating Butler as the 'leader'. Rondo I'm not so worried about. It's Wade that might let his ego run wild.

Don't think Wade would've came here if he thought that would be a huge concern. Him and Butler chatted and I'm sure they had a mutual understanding that they'll both need to be leaders for this team to succeed, just like he and Bron were for Miami. Butler's main issue was with Rose who missed so many games yet thought that the Bulls were still his team. I'm sure Butler won't have a problem deferring to a future HOFer with 3 NBA titles.

BKLYNpigeon
07-08-2016, 04:36 PM
Rondo and Wade made 67 3's last season.

WaDe03
07-10-2016, 02:41 AM
Not at all. They have Wade.

Monta is beast
07-10-2016, 02:46 AM
They should have signed jeremy lin instead of rondo

jimm120
07-10-2016, 02:52 AM
they don't have Thibs anymore. YOu shouldn't think that they'll do well.

And they got no 3 point shooting.

LA_Raiders
07-10-2016, 03:05 AM
Top 4 in the east, yes.

Heediot
07-10-2016, 08:53 AM
They will have a nice bench with nice youngsters. Grant-Valentine-McDermott-Mirotic-Portis all have upside.
I like the defense in the starting unit. Spacing may be a lil bit of an issue, but even a team like Memphis did all right with weak spacing.

Vinylman
07-10-2016, 03:00 PM
No get your facts right Jimmy Butler is actually borderline 6'8 , that is his combine height he was measured at . http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/


If Leonard can be a SF who actually is a legit 6'7 then so can Butler .


Butler wasn't advanced offensively as he is now back when he played SF but he was good on the defensive end .


So teams still put their best wing defenders on butler mostly SF and he still shown effectiveness over the last two years so really it doesn't matter lol . Jimmy will see the same defensive assignments at the 3 that he did the 2 . But prob the positive is Jimmy gets back to playing off ball which he's good at in slashing and spot up corner 3's . Jimmy can shoot when assisted but his 3 % took a dip cuz he took too many off the dribble 3's and his knee messed up he couldn't get lift .


Jimmy had to play SG based on the roster Bulls haven't signed a SG that was capable of allowing Jimmy to move back to the 3 till now .

Butler and Leonard were the same height at the same combine without shoes 6 6

Heights with shoes are stupid

The reason Leonard can play the 3 is he has the largest hands in the league and a wing span that is almost 7 inches greater than butler

FlashBolt
07-10-2016, 03:10 PM
No get your facts right Jimmy Butler is actually borderline 6'8 , that is his combine height he was measured at . http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/


If Leonard can be a SF who actually is a legit 6'7 then so can Butler .


Butler wasn't advanced offensively as he is now back when he played SF but he was good on the defensive end .


So teams still put their best wing defenders on butler mostly SF and he still shown effectiveness over the last two years so really it doesn't matter lol . Jimmy will see the same defensive assignments at the 3 that he did the 2 . But prob the positive is Jimmy gets back to playing off ball which he's good at in slashing and spot up corner 3's . Jimmy can shoot when assisted but his 3 % took a dip cuz he took too many off the dribble 3's and his knee messed up he couldn't get lift .


Jimmy had to play SG based on the roster Bulls haven't signed a SG that was capable of allowing Jimmy to move back to the 3 till now .

Using draftexpress as evidence is pretty stupid... LeBron is much taller than Jimmy is yet according to you, they are both 6'8. That's simply inaccurate. Compare Jimmy to players around 6'8-6'9. You'll see he's more around 6'6-6'7 area.

Here's a picture of Derrick Rose next to Jimmy Butler:

http://bullsnation.net/despite-an-embarrassing-loss-derrick-rose-jimmy-butler-did-something-no-other-backcourt-has-done-this-season/

Here's a picture of Derrick Rose next to LeBron James:

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/LeBron+James/Derrick+Rose/Chicago+Bulls+v+Miami+Heat/CFVJ559RXO3



1) Leonard has huge hands and has a bigger body than Butler does. Also a smarter defender.
2) Jimmy isn't a natural SF. He's very small. His post advantage comes against shooting guards. He has no height/weight advantage over most SF's. He does over SG's. Thus, his natural position is clearly SG.. Just because he can play SF well and would be great at it, doesn't mean he isn't better being a SG.

BIG worm
07-10-2016, 03:11 PM
How did this myth start that Jimmy Butler cant play the 3 spot? I always thought that was his natural position? i mean hes always been solid guarding Lebron, what SF's are we saying he cant guard?

BIG worm
07-10-2016, 03:12 PM
1) Leonard has huge hands and has a bigger body than Butler does. Also a smarter defender.
2) Jimmy isn't a natural SF. He's very small. His post advantage comes against shooting guards. He has no height/weight advantage over most SF's. He does over SG's. Thus, his natural position is clearly SG.. Just because he can play SF well and would be great at it, doesn't mean he isn't better being a SG.

Jimmy is very small? How?

FlashBolt
07-10-2016, 03:16 PM
How did this myth start that Jimmy Butler cant play the 3 spot? I always thought that was his natural position? i mean hes always been solid guarding Lebron, what SF's are we saying he cant guard?

What myth? No one ever said Jimmy Butler can't play the 3 spot. His position is naturally a SG. His advantages are also better against a SG.

Jimmy is very small? How?

To the elite SF's, he's pretty undersized. Melo is 6'8 235-245. James is 6'8 250-260. KD is 6'9-6'10 230. He's at a disadvantage against those guys.

BIG worm
07-10-2016, 03:25 PM
What myth? No one ever said Jimmy Butler can't play the 3 spot. His position is naturally a SG. His advantages are also better against a SG.


To the elite SF's, he's pretty undersized. Melo is 6'8 235-245. James is 6'8 250-260. KD is 6'9-6'10 230. He's at a disadvantage against those guys.
Jimmy guards these guys regardless of what position he plays. Jimmy being undersized is news to me. Theres not a sf out there outside of Lebron and Kd that would give Jimmy fits, but they do that to everybody.

FlashBolt
07-10-2016, 03:26 PM
Jimmy guards these guys regardless of what position he plays. Jimmy being undersized is news to me. Theres not a sf out there outside of Lebron and Kd that would give Jimmy fits, but they do that to everybody.

I said he's undersized as an SF.. how are you denying that? LeBron can play PF, too. Does that mean his natural position is PF?

BIG worm
07-10-2016, 03:30 PM
Because he isnt undersized at SF.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-10-2016, 03:35 PM
Who cares if he's better suited as a SG or SF, he guards the best wing player on the other team regardless of their position.

FlashBolt
07-10-2016, 03:43 PM
Because he isnt undersized at SF.

Lol. Whatever you say. I guess LeBron can play SG along with Durant now too.

FlashBolt
07-10-2016, 03:44 PM
Who cares if he's better suited as a SG or SF, he guards the best wing player on the other team regardless of their position.

Because they give up size.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-10-2016, 03:57 PM
Lol. Whatever you say. I guess LeBron can play SG along with Durant now too.

You are missing the point. Jimmy usually guards the best perimeter player and vice versa. If we go against GSW klay guards him. If we go against Spurs Khawi guards him. PacersGeorge Guards him. Cha MKG guards him.

So it won't hurt him being a sf.

TheNumber37
07-10-2016, 03:57 PM
This is a team for thibs not Hoiberg.

I expect their bench to be really good with Dunleavey out, there's more mins for Snell, Valentine, Mcbuckets

Stunner
07-10-2016, 03:59 PM
You are missing the point. Jimmy usually guards the best perimeter player and vice versa. If we go against GSW klay guards him. If we go against Spurs Khawi guards him. PacersGeorge Guards him. Cha MKG guards him.

So it won't hurt him being a sf.

Exactly , it's such a dumb thing to say . Regardless of position he's gonna get the other teams best wing defender the same way he's been getting the last two years .

Stunner
07-10-2016, 04:02 PM
Butler and Leonard were the same height at the same combine without shoes 6 6

Heights with shoes are stupid

The reason Leonard can play the 3 is he has the largest hands in the league and a wing span that is almost 7 inches greater than butler

Do players play barefoot ?

And your reasoning isn't that great for why Leonard plays the 3 and butler can't .


Two different teams with roster make ups for one , 2nd offensively and defensively nothing will change for butler rather he's a SG or SF . He's going to get the same looks

Stunner
07-10-2016, 04:05 PM
Using draftexpress as evidence is pretty stupid... LeBron is much taller than Jimmy is yet according to you, they are both 6'8. That's simply inaccurate. Compare Jimmy to players around 6'8-6'9. You'll see he's more around 6'6-6'7 area.

Here's a picture of Derrick Rose next to Jimmy Butler:

http://bullsnation.net/despite-an-embarrassing-loss-derrick-rose-jimmy-butler-did-something-no-other-backcourt-has-done-this-season/

Here's a picture of Derrick Rose next to LeBron James:

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/LeBron+James/Derrick+Rose/Chicago+Bulls+v+Miami+Heat/CFVJ559RXO3



1) Leonard has huge hands and has a bigger body than Butler does. Also a smarter defender.
2) Jimmy isn't a natural SF. He's very small. His post advantage comes against shooting guards. He has no height/weight advantage over most SF's. He does over SG's. Thus, his natural position is clearly SG.. Just because he can play SF well and would be great at it, doesn't mean he isn't better being a SG.

How is it stupid when it's their actually height , Jimmy in shoes is 6'75 that's barely 6'8 so they just rounded it up . Ultimately I think Jimmy is just 6'7


Again Jimmy can play the SG / SF , Bulls roster makeup allows Jimmy to play the 2 . Facts Jimmy will get the same looks on both ends of the floor he's gotten this past 2 seasons . Jimmy will guard the other teams best wing and the other teams best wing will guard Jimmy .

Stunner
07-10-2016, 04:06 PM
It's crazy will reach over and beyond to fit something to their argument

PewPew
07-10-2016, 04:53 PM
Yes you're crazy.

Heatnation80
07-10-2016, 05:15 PM
Bulls are second best in east IMO...Mirotic and Mcdermott will spend a lot of time at the 3, Butler at 4. That team can match-up against any team in the league as presently constructed. Wade will make Lopez look better than he really is...

smith&wesson
07-10-2016, 05:38 PM
Butler is an undersized SF.. that's not his natural position by any stretch. Being able to play it well is completely different from being a natural position.

If I'm Chicago, I would try and back out of that Rondo deal or something. Sign a scrub and then get CP3 there for next season. End of your problems.

Yeah because they can afford to waste a season while Wade gets another year older :rolleyes:

Rondo is a good player, and the bulls got a decent deal for him. He was the assist leader in the league so you know he still has elite capabilities. why not roll with it? He's a pass first pg that should compliment Butler a lot better than Rose did.

smith&wesson
07-10-2016, 05:45 PM
Bulls are second best in east IMO...Mirotic and Mcdermott will spend a lot of time at the 3, Butler at 4. That team can match-up against any team in the league as presently constructed. Wade will make Lopez look better than he really is...

don't get a head of yourself. Wades signing isn't even official yet. on paper they look decent, but we need to see how the pieces fit together.

Raptors are still 2nd best in the east for the time being.

smith&wesson
07-10-2016, 05:47 PM
Butler has played both the sg/sf position before. He will continue to do so. Its not like he and wade will be on the floor together all the time.

I don't understand why its so crazy to fathom Butler at the 3, when he has played the 3 and was successful doing so up to date :shrug:

mightybosstone
07-10-2016, 06:02 PM
I flat out hated what Chicago did this summer. They had the chance to rebuild around their budding superstar. And instead they went out and got two aging guards who are 4-5 years past their primes, pushed him out of his comfort zone into SF and essentially took the ball out of his hands to give it to far less efficient offensive players. The two guys they got are among the worst 3-point shooters at their respective positions in the past decade, and they did this at a time when only teams that can shoot the 3-pointer seem to be thriving.

So, no, I don't think Chicago will be a top 4 seed. Assuming Rondo and Wade can both stay healthy (a relatively big "what if"), I think they're a 6 or 7 seed in the East at best. There are just far better constructed teams in the Conference. And to make matters worse, I think they auctioned off their future to stay only remotely relevant over the next couple of years. Because if I'm Butler, I'm bolting from the Bulls the first chance I get.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-10-2016, 09:50 PM
I flat out hated what Chicago did this summer. They had the chance to rebuild around their budding superstar. And instead they went out and got two aging guards who are 4-5 years past their primes, pushed him out of his comfort zone into SF and essentially took the ball out of his hands to give it to far less efficient offensive players. The two guys they got are among the worst 3-point shooters at their respective positions in the past decade, and they did this at a time when only teams that can shoot the 3-pointer seem to be thriving.

So, no, I don't think Chicago will be a top 4 seed. Assuming Rondo and Wade can both stay healthy (a relatively big "what if"), I think they're a 6 or 7 seed in the East at best. There are just far better constructed teams in the Conference. And to make matters worse, I think they auctioned off their future to stay only remotely relevant over the next couple of years. Because if I'm Butler, I'm bolting from the Bulls the first chance I get.

They didn't auction off anything. The plan is to go into FA next summer with cap space and Dwyane Wade to recruit the likes of CP3 and whoever else will come. I'll take that shot as opposed to tanking and becoming the Sixers 2.0

FOXHOUND
07-10-2016, 10:05 PM
Uh, if Jimmy Butler is undersized at SF, then what the hell is Andre Iguodala? :laugh2:

smith&wesson
07-10-2016, 10:59 PM
They didn't auction off anything. The plan is to go into FA next summer with cap space and Dwyane Wade to recruit the likes of CP3 and whoever else will come. I'll take that shot as opposed to tanking and becoming the Sixers 2.0

good point, I agree. And why not ? This gives the team a chance to stay competitive in a weaker eastern conference, and like you said there will be opportunities for them to get an impact player in free agency as well...

Also Taj has a chance to blossom given the bigger role and I think its a good look for him.. Mirotic, and Lopez are good bigs and with Rondo you know you're not getting a guy who wants to take a ton of shots. He can just set Wade, and Butler up all day. Might actually be fun to watch.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-10-2016, 11:14 PM
good point, I agree. And why not ? This gives the team a chance to stay competitive in a weaker eastern conference, and like you said there will be opportunities for them to get an impact player in free agency as well...

Also Taj has a chance to blossom given the bigger role and I think its a good look for him.. Mirotic, and Lopez are good bigs and with Rondo you know you're not getting a guy who wants to take a ton of shots. He can just set Wade, and Butler up all day. Might actually be fun to watch.

I'm tired of people saying trade everyone and tank for high draft picks. How many teams who have taken that approach have succeeded? It's one thing you have a roster full of nobodies and you really don't have a choice, but you got an all-star in Butler and quality players in Mirotic, Gibson, Lopez, McDermott and a potential future all-star in Portis. Bulls main issue is they can't convince star FAs to come to Chicago. That will change now with Wade on the team, with his friend CP3 stuck in the West with the Warriors in his path to get to his first Finals.

FlashBolt
07-11-2016, 01:31 AM
You are missing the point. Jimmy usually guards the best perimeter player and vice versa. If we go against GSW klay guards him. If we go against Spurs Khawi guards him. PacersGeorge Guards him. Cha MKG guards him.

So it won't hurt him being a sf.

Man, I think you GUYS are missing the point. I never said Butler can't play SF. I'm saying his natural position is SG and some of you are arguing that he can play SF. Compare him to most SF's and he's undersized. That is true. I don't see how you guys are taking that as a hit on Butler. I had him as the 2nd best SG in the game. He'll probably be a top 5 SF behind

LBJ
Durant
Kawhi
PG

But there is no doubt he is a natural SG and not a natural SF just by size comparisons.


How is it stupid when it's their actually height , Jimmy in shoes is 6'75 that's barely 6'8 so they just rounded it up . Ultimately I think Jimmy is just 6'7


Again Jimmy can play the SG / SF , Bulls roster makeup allows Jimmy to play the 2 . Facts Jimmy will get the same looks on both ends of the floor he's gotten this past 2 seasons . Jimmy will guard the other teams best wing and the other teams best wing will guard Jimmy .

Because they also listed LeBron at 240 and everyone knows that's false. They also listed LeBron at 6"8 so according to you, Butler is almost as tall as LeBron. That's inaccurate. There is a clear height difference between those two. BTW, I SAID Butler was closer to 6'7 than 6'8 and you responded by "get your facts straight." And his reasoning for as to why Kawhi is a better 3 than Butler is because Kawhi has a freakish body. There's a reason why no player guards LeBron better than Kawhi and why he is the DPOY two years in a row. But again, I've never said Butler can't play SF. I just think it's pretty obvious his advantage over other SG's make it a better position for him to succeed in.

uprightciti
07-11-2016, 05:08 AM
No I don't think the Bulls are a top 4 they will likely be a 7 or 8 seed with a 1st round KO against Cleveland or Toronto


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Ty Fast
07-11-2016, 12:56 PM
The East is wide open. I could see it happening.

mightybosstone
07-11-2016, 01:05 PM
They didn't auction off anything. The plan is to go into FA next summer with cap space and Dwyane Wade to recruit the likes of CP3 and whoever else will come. I'll take that shot as opposed to tanking and becoming the Sixers 2.0
Why would Paul come to a team with Rondo and two shooting guards that need the ball? That's a terrible fit for him. Maybe they could get Blake, but I don't know if they'll be good enough this season to attract stars a year from now. And I'm not sure that Wade—a player probably 3-4 years from retirement who could be gone in another year anyway—is going to be an ideal recruiter for Chicago. If they had added Rondo OR Wade, I could have understood the move somewhat. But adding both guys just doesn't make sense.

As for rebuilding, I'm not suggesting that they become the Sixers. I'm suggesting they go out and get guys to build around Butler. Unlike the Sixers, Chicago already has a star-caliber player in him. And they might have had to suck for a few years, but eventually they would have found a player to pair with Butler, either through free agency or the draft.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-11-2016, 01:14 PM
I don't think Rondo and Wade are a good fit at all

Pierzynski4Prez
07-11-2016, 01:21 PM
Why would Paul come to a team with Rondo and two shooting guards that need the ball? That's a terrible fit for him. Maybe they could get Blake, but I don't know if they'll be good enough this season to attract stars a year from now. And I'm not sure that Wade—a player probably 3-4 years from retirement who could be gone in another year anyway—is going to be an ideal recruiter for Chicago. If they had added Rondo OR Wade, I could have understood the move somewhat. But adding both guys just doesn't make sense.

As for rebuilding, I'm not suggesting that they become the Sixers. I'm suggesting they go out and get guys to build around Butler. Unlike the Sixers, Chicago already has a star-caliber player in him. And they might have had to suck for a few years, but eventually they would have found a player to pair with Butler, either through free agency or the draft.

Check Rondo's contract. It's likely just a 1 year stint in Chicago.

FOXHOUND
07-11-2016, 01:58 PM
But there is no doubt he is a natural SG and not a natural SF just by size comparisons.

Butler was drafted as a SF and played there for his first two seasons. He's big for a SG and just fine as a SF. His natural position is wing and he guards anyone from Harden to LeBron just fine. Do you think Wade is undersized at SG just because he's 6'4? Should he be a PG? Do you think Andre Iguodala is a problem when he's at SF, even though he guards LeBron and Durant as good as anyone in the NBA? Iguodala is 6'6 and 200-210 pounds.

I'm not sure why you're so adamant that he's a SG and not a SF. He already guards SF's plenty, as it's a far stronger position than SG, and is guarded by SF's plenty, as anyone can guard a SF like Mike Dunleavy who he has started next to the last two years. This positional move will change nothing for Butler. If anything, it will allow for him to be defended by the weaker defensive wing more often since Wade and Butler have to be equally respected.

mudvayne387
07-11-2016, 01:59 PM
Man, I think you GUYS are missing the point. I never said Butler can't play SF. I'm saying his natural position is SG and some of you are arguing that he can play SF. Compare him to most SF's and he's undersized. That is true. I don't see how you guys are taking that as a hit on Butler. I had him as the 2nd best SG in the game. He'll probably be a top 5 SF behind

LBJ
Durant
Kawhi
PG

But there is no doubt he is a natural SG and not a natural SF just by size comparisons.



Because they also listed LeBron at 240 and everyone knows that's false. They also listed LeBron at 6"8 so according to you, Butler is almost as tall as LeBron. That's inaccurate. There is a clear height difference between those two. BTW, I SAID Butler was closer to 6'7 than 6'8 and you responded by "get your facts straight." And his reasoning for as to why Kawhi is a better 3 than Butler is because Kawhi has a freakish body. There's a reason why no player guards LeBron better than Kawhi and why he is the DPOY two years in a row. But again, I've never said Butler can't play SF. I just think it's pretty obvious his advantage over other SG's make it a better position for him to succeed in.

But it is not.

He was recruited to college as a SF
He was drafted to the pros as a SF
He played primarily SF for Chicago in his second year

He only switched to SG because Dunleavy and Deng were on the roster and their SG depth was poor to start the 13 season (Snell/Teague). Rather than move everyone down a spot on the depth chart, they moved him to SG (where he blossomed) and everything worked out.

Now that Wade and Rondo are there, they will have to pull a similar move and switch him back to SF. It would be crazy to think that a guy as talented as Butler will struggle making the switch back.

DR_1
07-11-2016, 02:14 PM
not trying to turn the discussion, but its worth mentioning i would take the Sixers current situation over the Bulls current situation 100 times out of 100. The Bulls arent contenders and have average young talent to grow and build with and they havent signed a major FA in a long time.. The GM needs to be fired and prob will if this seasons busts. This was a poor use of cap space to say the least.
As a Bulls fan I'd much rather be in the Sixers position. If you know anything about our situation though, you will know that the GM will have to do A LOT wrong to get fired.

TheDish87
07-11-2016, 03:02 PM
As a Bulls fan I'd much rather be in the Sixers position. If you know anything about our situation though, you will know that the GM will have to do A LOT wrong to get fired.

im really not too familiar with the FO but my co-worker is a Bulls fan and hates the GM. Was the Rose situation that bad where they would rather have Rondo for one year compared to one more of Rose? I think Rose is all but done but it made no sense to dump him just to add Rondo when hes probably no better. There is no chance Rondo holds any value at the deadline but Rose at least had chance to up his value, even tohugh its incredibly slim.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-11-2016, 07:18 PM
Why would Paul come to a team with Rondo and two shooting guards that need the ball? That's a terrible fit for him. Maybe they could get Blake, but I don't know if they'll be good enough this season to attract stars a year from now. And I'm not sure that Wade—a player probably 3-4 years from retirement who could be gone in another year anyway—is going to be an ideal recruiter for Chicago. If they had added Rondo OR Wade, I could have understood the move somewhat. But adding both guys just doesn't make sense.

As for rebuilding, I'm not suggesting that they become the Sixers. I'm suggesting they go out and get guys to build around Butler. Unlike the Sixers, Chicago already has a star-caliber player in him. And they might have had to suck for a few years, but eventually they would have found a player to pair with Butler, either through free agency or the draft.

Rondo will be gone next season as the 2nd year is not guaranteed. And FYI if they're gonna build around Butler, they can't "suck for a few years" because Butler isn't 20 yrs old, he's 26 and will be out of his prime in 5-6 years. So what will be the point if it takes that long to finally develop a star player next to Butler? With their decision to keep Butler, this is the only logical way to move forward at this point and hope you strike gold next summer.

DarkKnight
07-11-2016, 07:40 PM
Not happening... Sorry , guess you're crazy

Kush McDaniels
07-11-2016, 08:22 PM
the Bulls have such a mix-matched roster. I don't think Greg Popovich could coach them to a 4 seed.

InRoseWeTrust
07-11-2016, 10:04 PM
im really not too familiar with the FO but my co-worker is a Bulls fan and hates the GM. Was the Rose situation that bad where they would rather have Rondo for one year compared to one more of Rose? I think Rose is all but done but it made no sense to dump him just to add Rondo when hes probably no better. There is no chance Rondo holds any value at the deadline but Rose at least had chance to up his value, even tohugh its incredibly slim.

I'm as big a Rose fanboy as there is (see my name). Dude was flat out awful last year to the point where some advanced metrics (such as real plus minus) had him at like 83rd out of 85 for point guards. He improved slightly towards the end of the year, but he just wasn't good. I really wish him the best and would love to see him come back to form, even for the Knicks, but I just don't see it happening.

ChicagoFan4Eva
07-11-2016, 10:38 PM
Yes.

mrblisterdundee
07-11-2016, 11:52 PM
Rondo
Wade
Butler
Gibson
Lopez


Rajon Rondo is the best perimeter shooter in that starting five. Does that not scare you?
The Bulls should have stuck to the youth movement, trading older assets for younger assets. Surround Jimmy Butler — the shooting guard version — with shooters and defense, and with a new rim protector to replace Joakim Noah. And give Bobby Portis Jr. 36 minutes a game.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-12-2016, 01:33 AM
Rajon Rondo is the best perimeter shooter in that starting five. Does that not scare you?
The Bulls should have stuck to the youth movement, trading older assets for younger assets. Surround Jimmy Butler — the shooting guard version — with shooters and defense, and with a new rim protector to replace Joakim Noah. And give Bobby Portis Jr. 36 minutes a game.

Wait what? How is Rondo a better shooter than Butler? Butler's percentage is only lower because he attempted so many more than Rondo while not being completely wide open like Rondo usually is.

5ass
07-12-2016, 01:52 AM
They have to start Mirotic, and they'll still have spacing issues. I dont think they'll be that good, but they might make the play offs.

justinnum1
07-12-2016, 01:18 PM
yes, you're high

they will be lucky to make the playoffs. worst shooting backcourt in history. bench is meh, lucky to the make the playoffs.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-12-2016, 02:17 PM
There's no reason to think they can't. But I think you could make the case for about half a dozen teams in the East reaching the #4 seed.

Cleveland and Toronto I think are near locks (barring injury) for the top 2 seeds. My opinion is that Boston will be the #3 seed.

After that though between ATL, IND, NYK, DET, CHA, and CHI you could make a case for any of those teams to get the #4 seed. I wouldn't count any of them out and it's why the games are played.

InRoseWeTrust
07-12-2016, 02:20 PM
There's no reason to think they can't. But I think you could make the case for about half a dozen teams in the East reaching the #4 seed.

Cleveland and Toronto I think are near locks (barring injury) for the top 2 seeds. My opinion is that Boston will be the #3 seed.

After that though between ATL, IND, NYK, DET, CHA, and CHI you could make a case for any of those teams to get the #4 seed. I wouldn't count any of them out and it's why the games are played.

This sounds about right, with ATL, IND, and DET (I think) clearly better than CHI. It's why I'm still thinking Bulls are a 6th/7th seed. I'd be very surprised if we missed the playoffs entirely.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-12-2016, 03:52 PM
This sounds about right, with ATL, IND, and DET (I think) clearly better than CHI. It's why I'm still thinking Bulls are a 6th/7th seed. I'd be very surprised if we missed the playoffs entirely.

I wouldn't say "clearly" better. Pacers improved getting Teague but I think the Hawks got worse losing him and Horford. Dwight Howard doesn't scare anybody anymore. Detroit is relatively the same. Remember the Bulls still won 42 games last year considering all the **** that happened and they were a top 3 seed before Noah and Butler were gone with injuries. The shooting issues were no different last year with the starting 5 as Dunleavy only played half the season and was pretty ineffective when he did play.

If this roster stays healthy and Wade can duplicate the season he just had, a top 4 seed is very much possible.

JordansBulls
07-13-2016, 12:16 AM
Rondo
Wade
Butler
Gibson
Lopez

All this talk about the Bulls not making the playoffs with or without Wade makes me scratch my head. You know exactly what you are going to get out of 4 of your 5 starters.

Wade will average 18/4/4. Moving Butler back to his natural position at SF will be an extremely easy transition and the team shouldn't miss a beat. Both Gibson and Lopez will give maximum effort and I am 100% certain (being a Knicks fan) that the Bulls fans will love having Lopez on their squad. The only question mark is Rondo but being on (essentially) a one year deal, what is there to lose ?

It is such a prototypical starting 5 that it looks like it came out of a basketball 101 book.

Distributing Point Guard
Scoring Shooting Guard
Versatile Small Forward
Hustle Power Forward
Rim Protecting Center

As for their bench, Mirotic is no slouch and is probably better than Gibson at this point but will be nice to have as a 6th man. Both Portis and McDermott look the part and should only get better next season. Grant although not a great shooter can get to the basket and should be fine in the backup PG role distributing the ball.

Losing Gasol, Rose and Noah looks terrible on paper, but how many games did they actually play together last year ?

I actually think the Bulls will be in the thick of things in the east and at the very least have a real excited season and a fun team to watch.

Bulls 2017 are built like the 1998 Bulls

It seems the way the team is structured for the upcoming season is similar to how the 1998 Bulls were.

Harper - Rondo
Wade - MJ
Pippen - Jimmy
Rodman - Taj
Luc - Lopez

Toni - Niko

JordansBulls
07-13-2016, 12:18 AM
This Bulls team is better than Toronto, we can win between 57-63 games next year.

5ass
07-13-2016, 12:41 AM
Rondo
Wade
Butler
Gibson
Lopez

All this talk about the Bulls not making the playoffs with or without Wade makes me scratch my head. You know exactly what you are going to get out of 4 of your 5 starters.

Wade will average 18/4/4. Moving Butler back to his natural position at SF will be an extremely easy transition and the team shouldn't miss a beat. Both Gibson and Lopez will give maximum effort and I am 100% certain (being a Knicks fan) that the Bulls fans will love having Lopez on their squad. The only question mark is Rondo but being on (essentially) a one year deal, what is there to lose ?

It is such a prototypical starting 5 that it looks like it came out of a basketball 101 book.
Distributing Point Guard
Scoring Shooting Guard
Versatile Small Forward
Hustle Power Forward
Rim Protecting Center

As for their bench, Mirotic is no slouch and is probably better than Gibson at this point but will be nice to have as a 6th man. Both Portis and McDermott look the part and should only get better next season. Grant although not a great shooter can get to the basket and should be fine in the backup PG role distributing the ball.

Losing Gasol, Rose and Noah looks terrible on paper, but how many games did they actually play together last year ?

I actually think the Bulls will be in the thick of things in the east and at the very least have a real excited season and a fun team to watch.

Not when your shooting guard can't shoot.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-13-2016, 12:47 AM
This Bulls team is better than Toronto, we can win between 57-63 games next year.

JB stop[emoji23]

Crackadalic
07-13-2016, 02:11 PM
I just don't like the makeup of the roster. Nobody can shoot well in the starting five and you just play straight up zone against them. They have enough talent but the pieces don't fit at all. 9th seed most likely and as high as 7th.