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View Full Version : Do any Heat fans now despise Pat Riley?



JasonJohnHorn
07-07-2016, 07:55 AM
I'm not a Heat fan or hater, but I've had a huge issue with Riley for a long time (I respect him as a coach, but I think he's a huge a-hole and generally not a very good person).

For years, though, I've heard Heat fans point to how 'loyal' Riley is. It seems, however, that after letting Wade play at a discount to make the team better, he doesn't feel like giving Wade his overdue paycheck.

This happened with Haslem as well. The year the Heat signed the big-3, they rescinded Haslem's rights to create the cap space they needed, then he signed for the vet min despite the fact that there were several teams lined up to give him a decent pay check. Reports were that when his Bird rights kicked back in, he'd get paid, but Haslem's level of play went down, and so did his market value. Though the Heat have kept him, he never made up that money he gave up in his contract year. Haslem was putting up a double-double per36 on .500 shooting, which any number of teams would have killed to add to their roster, plus he had championship experience and has been known as a great lockerroom guy. Despite the fact he was up for a 10+ mill payday, he took 3 and change from the Heat. He never made that money back.



Do Heat fans now have a different view of Riley? Has the 'loyalty' badge been replaced for a 'cut-throat opportunist' or pragmatist badge?

Of are fans putting this on Wade?

GoferKing_
07-07-2016, 08:22 AM
He puts too much shiet in his hair. That is all I have to say.

DarkKnight
07-07-2016, 08:50 AM
He's definitely working it this year

Ty Fast
07-07-2016, 10:21 AM
They were only $3.5 million apart amd they couldnt figure something out?? This really sucks and hurts!!

Big Zo
07-07-2016, 10:32 AM
No, both sides share some blame in this. I can never hate either one. They both made the Heat organization champions.

WaDe03
07-07-2016, 10:36 AM
He didn't contact Wade once during free agency.

hotdalton18
07-07-2016, 10:38 AM
He didn't contact Wade once during free agency.

I guess was told him not to

hotdalton18
07-07-2016, 10:38 AM
No , most heat fans understand this is the right move for the rebuild

hugepatsfan
07-07-2016, 10:41 AM
No , most heat fans understand this is the right move for the rebuild

If you guys think letting him go is the right move then shouldn't you be furious with Riley for offering 2 years, $40M? That extra $3.5M/year makes no material difference on what a hinderance he would be to rebuilding. 2 years $40M and 2 years $47M is really no different for you guys.

_Supreme_
07-07-2016, 10:51 AM
Of are fans putting this on Wade?

This particular one is all on Dwyane.

I understand he wants to be paid his market value, but he also wants his club to field a playoff level team, yes?

In order to do so Pat Riley had to approach this free agency period a certain way, otherwise the roster would be even more gutted than it is right now. Did he want to lose Whiteside as well, in addition to Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Tyler Johnson?

Just for the record, he chose to take that paycut to be able to play on a team that went to four Finals and won two championships. There was a very large dose of self-interest involved there too. Less money in exchange for more glory and more ego boost. Nobody did anybody any charitable favours. It was a business deal that worked out pretty good for everyone involved. It is as simple as that.

Dwyane Wade is smart enough to understand the reality of the current situation, but instead he chose to be petty and butthurt about 2 x 3 freaking million dollars. Actually I can't shake this vibe that he was looking for an excuse to act unhappy right from the start of free agency.

In the end it is sad he will not end his career with the HEAT, but I am glad Pat Riley put the team first and the ego of the player second.

rhymeratic
07-07-2016, 11:01 AM
This particular one is all on Dwyane.

I understand he wants to be paid his market value, but he also wants his club to field a playoff level team, yes?

In order to do so Pat Riley had to approach this free agency period a certain way, otherwise the roster would be even more gutted than it is right now. Did he want to lose Whiteside as well, in addition to Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Tyler Johnson?

Just for the record, he chose to take that paycut to be able to play on a team that went to four Finals and won two championships. There was a very large dose of self-interest involved there too. Less money in exchange for more glory and more ego boost. Nobody did anybody any charitable favours. It was a business deal that worked out pretty good for everyone involved. It is as simple as that.

Dwyane Wade is smart enough to understand the reality of the current situation, but instead he chose to be petty and butthurt about 2 x 3 freaking million dollars. Actually I can't shake this vibe that he was looking for an excuse to act unhappy right from the start of free agency.

In the end it is sad he will not end his career with the HEAT, but I am glad Pat Riley put the team first and the ego of the player second.

100% Right

D-Wade is just another coward that looked for an excuse to leave Miami. Like there was zero reason to. Even when you factor in the dollars with taxes, the money is literally equal. Just a bum move. Should have stayed in South Beach and go out like a true champion. Now you're another chump that went to another team towards the end of your career and it'll look ugly seeing you in a Bulls uniform.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 11:04 AM
Never.

Both sides took it to far but Miami is in good shape. Good luck D Wade.

Slug3
07-07-2016, 11:04 AM
I dont blame anyone here. If anyone knows anything about Riley he usually has a big stance on never backing down and it pretty much showed here. I do think he probably thought that no matter what Wade would always be on board or no matter hoe back and forth they went Wade would still sign, but Wade most likely just felt upset and hurt from it and wanted to leave.

Wade also did take some more money (7.5 million more so not too much), but also just felt over the whole dealing with Pat thing, also he does get to play in his hometown and have a lot more family near by as well to end his career.

Pat was looking to not give that 3rd year to Wade (I assume, nothing really has come out on that) and Wade wanted a longer term deal with Miami I am sure. But Pay has done this before, let Zo walk when Miami was rebuilding and didn't want to pay him then (only offered a 1 year deal). Got in a big fight with Shaq at a practice and ended up traded him pretty much the next day. Thats the way Pat is and will always be.

But as a Heat fan I say thanks for the memories Wade and see you when you decide to come home or retire and get your jersey retired here. I know this day was coming but didn't think it would be this soon. Best of luck to him.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-07-2016, 11:06 AM
This particular one is all on Dwyane.

I understand he wants to be paid his market value, but he also wants his club to field a playoff level team, yes?

In order to do so Pat Riley had to approach this free agency period a certain way, otherwise the roster would be even more gutted than it is right now. Did he want to lose Whiteside as well, in addition to Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Tyler Johnson?

Just for the record, he chose to take that paycut to be able to play on a team that went to four Finals and won two championships. There was a very large dose of self-interest involved there too. Less money in exchange for more glory and more ego boost. Nobody did anybody any charitable favours. It was a business deal that worked out pretty good for everyone involved. It is as simple as that.

Dwyane Wade is smart enough to understand the reality of the current situation, but instead he chose to be petty and butthurt about 2 x 3 freaking million dollars. Actually I can't shake this vibe that he was looking for an excuse to act unhappy right from the start of free agency.

In the end it is sad he will not end his career with the HEAT, but I am glad Pat Riley put the team first and the ego of the player second.

That's Riley's job, not Wade's. It shouldn't fall on Wade in order to find the money to pay Whiteside, TJ, or anyone else.

Slug3
07-07-2016, 11:08 AM
This particular one is all on Dwyane.

I understand he wants to be paid his market value, but he also wants his club to field a playoff level team, yes?

In order to do so Pat Riley had to approach this free agency period a certain way, otherwise the roster would be even more gutted than it is right now. Did he want to lose Whiteside as well, in addition to Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Tyler Johnson?

Just for the record, he chose to take that paycut to be able to play on a team that went to four Finals and won two championships. There was a very large dose of self-interest involved there too. Less money in exchange for more glory and more ego boost. Nobody did anybody any charitable favours. It was a business deal that worked out pretty good for everyone involved. It is as simple as that.

Dwyane Wade is smart enough to understand the reality of the current situation, but instead he chose to be petty and butthurt about 2 x 3 freaking million dollars. Actually I can't shake this vibe that he was looking for an excuse to act unhappy right from the start of free agency.

In the end it is sad he will not end his career with the HEAT, but I am glad Pat Riley put the team first and the ego of the player second.

Honestly the only thing I was worried about was if we signed Wade to a 1 and 1 and he opted out again next year and did this whole thing for a 3rd year in a row.

PhillyFaninLA
07-07-2016, 11:12 AM
Loyalty is for fans, players, coaches, and owners will all come and go

nycericanguy
07-07-2016, 11:22 AM
Wade has been their franchise for 13 years. I'm surprised some fans have turned on him after all he's done for them. I've heard how he should take less again because Dirk & Duncan did it, but Dirk & Duncan at 34 were making $20m at a time when the cap was $56-60m... that would be like $35m per year in today's cap. they didn't take less until they were 37, 38 years old.

He took less and helped bring in Bosh & Lebron. Riley said he'd take care of him on his next deal.

Then He took less again so that Bosh could get MAX on his next deal. Again Riley said he'd take care of him.

but now this season comes and now it's time for Whiteside to get HIS max and Wade should again take less?

He never once got MAX in his career despite being a top 5 player throughout most of his career. Yet he has to take less so that lesser players around him can get max?

He made $20m only ONCE, and that was last season.

Seems Riley kept promising to "take care of him" every year, but then when the time came he would prioritize another player instead.

I think Wade had every right to feel betrayed and leave... and like others have said, it's not his job to field a competitive team... but he did more than his fair share of recruiting. No way does Lebron go there without Wade.

hotdalton18
07-07-2016, 11:24 AM
No , most heat fans understand this is the right move for the rebuild

If you guys think letting him go is the right move then shouldn't you be furious with Riley for offering 2 years, $40M? That extra $3.5M/year makes no material difference on what a hinderance he would be to rebuilding. 2 years $40M and 2 years $47M is really no different for you guys.


Yeah , I wasn't happy with that offer either lol

Slug3
07-07-2016, 11:33 AM
If you guys think letting him go is the right move then shouldn't you be furious with Riley for offering 2 years, $40M? That extra $3.5M/year makes no material difference on what a hinderance he would be to rebuilding. 2 years $40M and 2 years $47M is really no different for you guys.

I actually think the biggest thing is Wade wanted either 50 million or more from the heat for 2 years or a 3rd year that the Heat were not going to offer.

Wade n Fade
07-07-2016, 11:50 AM
No Heat fan in their right mind would hate Riley. Riley literally put the franchise together from coaching to his president tenure. Zo, Hardaway, Grant, Shaq, Eddie Jones, Wade, Bosh, LeBron, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem, Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson are among the names to grace the Heat's uniform. Without him, there is no Big 3, 2006 title, etc. People need to appreciate his legacy and give him trust. Sam Presti even lost KD. Not much either can do there because KD wanted an easier ring. Wade wanted more $, which the Heat cannot create just like that nor should they rightfully go out of their way to handicap the franchise for about $14 mill more over the next two years.

Slug3
07-07-2016, 12:00 PM
No Heat fan in their right mind would hate Riley. Riley literally put the franchise together from coaching to his president tenure. Zo, Hardaway, Grant, Shaq, Eddie Jones, Wade, Bosh, LeBron, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem, Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson are among the names to grace the Heat's uniform. Without him, there is no Big 3, 2006 title, etc. People need to appreciate his legacy and give him trust. Sam Presti even lost KD. Not much either can do there because KD wanted an easier ring. Wade wanted more $, which the Heat cannot create just like that nor should they rightfully go out of their way to handicap the franchise for about $14 mill more over the next two years.

Does feel right with the other names, lol.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 12:01 PM
Wade has been their franchise for 13 years. I'm surprised some fans have turned on him after all he's done for them. I've heard how he should take less again because Dirk & Duncan did it, but Dirk & Duncan at 34 were making $20m at a time when the cap was $56-60m... that would be like $35m per year in today's cap. they didn't take less until they were 37, 38 years old.

He took less and helped bring in Bosh & Lebron. Riley said he'd take care of him on his next deal.

Then He took less again so that Bosh could get MAX on his next deal. Again Riley said he'd take care of him.

but now this season comes and now it's time for Whiteside to get HIS max and Wade should again take less?

He never once got MAX in his career despite being a top 5 player throughout most of his career. Yet he has to take less so that lesser players around him can get max?

He made $20m only ONCE, and that was last season.

Seems Riley kept promising to "take care of him" every year, but then when the time came he would prioritize another player instead.

I think Wade had every right to feel betrayed and leave... and like others have said, it's not his job to field a competitive team... but he did more than his fair share of recruiting. No way does Lebron go there without Wade.

Lbj owes Wade money. Wade opted outvof a 42mil or 48mil contract, so the big 3 can re-up again; then Lbj left.

Wade continued to get paid, just not a long term contract; Wade wanting 50mil for 2yrs had nothing to do with back pay, that actually would have been an over pay.

Wade is just throwing back pay out there to put pressure on Miami; but that wasn't going to work.

Enjoy Wade, i hope you have a good year individually apart from your team; because ofcourse i dont wish any type of success to the bulls orginization.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:07 PM
This particular one is all on Dwyane.

I understand he wants to be paid his market value, but he also wants his club to field a playoff level team, yes?

In order to do so Pat Riley had to approach this free agency period a certain way, otherwise the roster would be even more gutted than it is right now. Did he want to lose Whiteside as well, in addition to Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Tyler Johnson?

Just for the record, he chose to take that paycut to be able to play on a team that went to four Finals and won two championships. There was a very large dose of self-interest involved there too. Less money in exchange for more glory and more ego boost. Nobody did anybody any charitable favours. It was a business deal that worked out pretty good for everyone involved. It is as simple as that.

Dwyane Wade is smart enough to understand the reality of the current situation, but instead he chose to be petty and butthurt about 2 x 3 freaking million dollars. Actually I can't shake this vibe that he was looking for an excuse to act unhappy right from the start of free agency.

In the end it is sad he will not end his career with the HEAT, but I am glad Pat Riley put the team first and the ego of the player second.

A certain way like meeting Durant with zero chance of signing him? Being the last team in the room on Sunday when KD already has a decision? Making Wade wait through that. Wade saw that Pat didn't make the team better and said ok, you tried and now it is time to pay me.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:09 PM
Lbj owes Wade money. Wade opted outvof a 42mil or 48mil contract, so the big 3 can re-up again; then Lbj left.

Wade continued to get paid, just not a long term contract; Wade wanting 50mil for 2yrs had nothing to do with back pay, that actually would have been an over pay.

Wade is just throwing back pay out there to put pressure on Miami; but that wasn't going to work.

Enjoy Wade, i hope you have a good year individually apart from your team; because ofcourse i dont wish any type of success to the bulls orginization.

LBJ doesn't owe him anything. The Heat had Wades bird rights and could have paid him whatever they wanted. That was also on the Heat

mia1619
07-07-2016, 12:17 PM
LBJ doesn't owe him anything. The Heat had Wades bird rights and could have paid him whatever they wanted. That was also on the Heat

ya no, you are incorrect. if we paid him whatever we wanted we would have been even deeper in the luxury tax than we already were. for what? to pay a 34-35 year old the max to lose in the first round and end up limiting our financial flexibility going forward?

he opted out of what was eventually 9 or 11 million more than he could have gotten because of his friend. not only that but he didn't say a word to the organization about lebron wanting to leave and that started some mistrust because the Heat thought there was no way in hell Wade knew nothing about lebron leaving.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 12:19 PM
Essentially 4 championships in a matter of 7-8 years warrants a tremendous amount of respect for Riley regardless of this outcome. Just to put it into perspective, that's more success than most fans see in their lifetime.

If Heat fans despise Riley, then they really are spoiled, self entitled individuals. If the man has too much pride to meet the demands of a washed up diva who's ego far surpassed his level of play long ago, then so be it.

It's obviously hard to lose him, but it was either trade/lose most of our young assets to try and win now or mortgage the future and let him go. I think the Heat made the right choice in the end.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:20 PM
ya no, you are incorrect. if we paid him whatever we wanted we would have been even deeper in the luxury tax than we already were. for what? to pay a 34-35 year old the max to lose in the first round and end up limiting our financial flexibility going forward?

he opted out of what was eventually 9 or 11 million more than he could have gotten because of his friend. not only that but he didn't say a word to the organization about lebron wanting to leave and that started some mistrust because the Heat thought there was no way in hell Wade knew nothing about lebron leaving.

They didn't want to pay the tax? Lol. You pay the tax for the franchises face. Even if they didn't want to pay it, they just had a chance to make it up to him without paying the tax because the cap went up, they didn't. They could have cleared McBob to make some more space to pay Wade more, they didn't.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Lbj owes Wade money. Wade opted outvof a 42mil or 48mil contract, so the big 3 can re-up again; then Lbj left.

Wade continued to get paid, just not a long term contract; Wade wanting 50mil for 2yrs had nothing to do with back pay, that actually would have been an over pay.

Wade is just throwing back pay out there to put pressure on Miami; but that wasn't going to work.

Enjoy Wade, i hope you have a good year individually apart from your team; because ofcourse i dont wish any type of success to the bulls orginization.

So Bosh opted out, too. Should Bosh be thanking LeBron? You can't have it both ways. Bosh should have took less to make up for the sacrifice Wade was taking. Don't be salty.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Essentially 4 championships in a matter of 7-8 years warrants a tremendous amount of respect for Riley regardless of this outcome. Just to put it into perspective, that's more success than most fans see in their lifetime.

If Heat fans despise Riley, then they really are spoiled, self entitled individuals. If the man has too much pride to meet the demands of a washed up diva who's ego far surpassed his level of play long ago, then so be it.

It's obviously hard to lose him, but it was either trade/lose most of our young assets to try and win now or mortgage the future and let him go. I think the Heat made the right choice in the end.

4 championships? When did they get that 4th one?

Clint Olbrock
07-07-2016, 12:21 PM
Riley is a clown.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 12:22 PM
not to mention you people dont realizae how much wade has declined. You see his playoffs in a very small sample and assume thats what he is now.

it isnt.

he is an injury prone 34 year old wing player who is literally the worst 3 point shooter of all time looking for a big pay day despite knowing that that big pay day will make miami irrelevent for the next 3 years.

Pat riley made a great move here. YOU DONT PAY SUPERSTARS FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

when will you people realize how much of a mistake that is in a salary capped sport?

mia1619
07-07-2016, 12:25 PM
They didn't want to pay the tax? Lol. You pay the tax for the franchises face. Even if they didn't want to pay it, they just had a chance to make it up to him without paying the tax because the cap went up, they didn't. They could have cleared McBob to make some more space to pay Wade more, they didn't.

no, you don't pay the tax for a franchises face when he is the franchises face based off of past performance, not future.

You have no idea what you are talking about. funny that youre a laker fan currently suffering with the worst, most future-less team in the NBA because you paid Kobe a deal for past performances and yet you still dont learn from your own teams idiocy.

I hope those last 3 years of Kobes career being in a Lakers uniform was worth being the laughing stock of the NBA for the last few years and forseeable future.

I'll take the cap space and past memories.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 12:25 PM
not to mention you people dont realizae how much wade has declined. You see his playoffs in a very small sample and assume thats what he is now.

it isnt.

he is an injury prone 34 year old wing player who is literally the worst 3 point shooter of all time looking for a big pay day despite knowing that that big pay day will make miami irrelevent for the next 3 years.

Pat riley made a great move here. YOU DONT PAY SUPERSTARS FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

when will you people realize how much of a mistake that is in a salary capped sport?

Yeah, now Pat Riley will have to settle for terrible players to fill up the roster... Make some sense, dude. Regardless of who they sign from this point on, they would be lucky to make the playoffs. Why not just pay the man?

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 12:30 PM
4 championships? When did they get that 4th one?
Dallas in 2011? The one Lebron choked away for the Heat?

Yeah it's 3 but even then most fans don't see their team sniff 3 titles in their lifetime.

Riley is a clown.
Cause anything you say has significance. Noted.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:36 PM
no, you don't pay the tax for a franchises face when he is the franchises face based off of past performance, not future.

You have no idea what you are talking about. funny that youre a laker fan currently suffering with the worst, most future-less team in the NBA because you paid Kobe a deal for past performances and yet you still dont learn from your own teams idiocy.

I hope those last 3 years of Kobes career being in a Lakers uniform was worth being the laughing stock of the NBA for the last few years and forseeable future.

I'll take the cap space and past memories.

Damn.. lol I didn't mid the Kobe contract and I am glad we kept him. The guy was a part of 5 championships and 7 finals. I don't know about futureless, we got a pretty nice group of young guys and enough cap space to go after Westbrook next year and enough tradable assets to go after another star without trading all of the young guys. I mean, you guys have Whiteside who will probably be more of a clown with a bad team. You don't think a superstar will look at the HEAT and Lakers and think, if I do well here this franchise will take care of me, and look at the Heat and think this dude disrespected Lebron on the way out, tried to make Bosh retire, and let the face of the franchise walk for a few million.

You take Ingram, Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Nance over Winslow and whoever else the Heat got. Whiteside is a glorified DeAndre Jordan but worse and it will show big time this season with no talent around him.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:36 PM
Dallas in 2011? The one Lebron choked away for the Heat?

Yeah it's 3 but even then most fans don't see their team sniff 3 titles in their lifetime.

Cause anything you say has significance. Noted.

So 3?

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 12:41 PM
Damn.. lol I didn't mid the Kobe contract and I am glad we kept him. The guy was a part of 5 championships and 7 finals. I don't know about futureless, we got a pretty nice group of young guys and enough cap space to go after Westbrook next year and enough tradable assets to go after another star without trading all of the young guys. I mean, you guys have Whiteside who will probably be more of a clown with a bad team. You don't think a superstar will look at the HEAT and Lakers and think, if I do well here this franchise will take care of me, and look at the Heat and think this dude disrespected Lebron on the way out, tried to make Bosh retire, and let the face of the franchise walk for a few million.

You take Ingram, Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Nance over Winslow and whoever else the Heat got. Whiteside is a glorified DeAndre Jordan but worse and it will show big time this season with no talent around him.

Kobe delayed the process by a number of years. You think Westbrook is going to sign with you next year? Lakers couldn't even get a meeting with KD and weren't even considered by a Cali dude in Derozen. It's a tough pill to swallow but the rebuild starts this year for you guys.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 12:42 PM
So 3?

Yep.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 12:44 PM
Damn.. lol I didn't mid the Kobe contract and I am glad we kept him. The guy was a part of 5 championships and 7 finals. I don't know about futureless, we got a pretty nice group of young guys and enough cap space to go after Westbrook next year and enough tradable assets to go after another star without trading all of the young guys. I mean, you guys have Whiteside who will probably be more of a clown with a bad team. You don't think a superstar will look at the HEAT and Lakers and think, if I do well here this franchise will take care of me, and look at the Heat and think this dude disrespected Lebron on the way out, tried to make Bosh retire, and let the face of the franchise walk for a few million.

You take Ingram, Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Nance over Winslow and whoever else the Heat got. Whiteside is a glorified DeAndre Jordan but worse and it will show big time this season with no talent around him.

The day after Dwyane Wade leaves, ya the lakers look more attractive currently over the long haul. But youve also been a terrible team for the last 5 years.

Clarkson is nothing special and neither is Randle or Nance. You have 2 potential stars and they are only that because there isnt enough info to know yet.

no superstar is taking into account what you did for other 35 year old players at the end of their careers, they just arent. superstars care about money and winning, not if you paid Wade or Kobe max deals when they were 35.

this conversation wasn't about that anyway. this conversation was about not giving the kobe contract to wade. If you sat through the last 5-6 year of god awful basketball watching the Lakers and think it was worth it congrats to pay him and watch him slowly fall apart in front of your eyes while your team is the worst in the league congrats, youre a moron.

No **** the lakers will have more pieces for the future when theyve been awful for 5-6 years and theyve been able to get high draft picks in those years.

Give the heat 6 years to be terrible and i'm willing to bet they'll have some solid pieces as well.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:49 PM
Kobe delayed the process by a number of years. You think Westbrook is going to sign with you next year? Lakers couldn't even get a meeting with KD and weren't even considered by a Cali dude in Derozen. It's a tough pill to swallow but the rebuild starts this year for you guys.

Kobe delayed the process by letting us tank and get the #2 pick in back to back years and the #7 pick 3 years ago? No free agent was coming if we Kept Howard over Kobe, Howard is a clown. They kept Kobe, paid him, had a season long party, and in 3 years gained a lot of young assets, now Kobe is gone and they have a young roster that can start playing together with a new coach and system. I don't know if Westbrook will come, but they can trade for someone using Clarkson and Randle while keeping Russell and Ingram to see if the team looks better for Westbrook. I do know that the Lakers have a way better shot at attracting Westbrook to LA than the HEAT do to Miami. He is from LA and if he looks at both teams, he knows one will take care of him.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 12:53 PM
The day after Dwyane Wade leaves, ya the lakers look more attractive currently over the long haul. But youve also been a terrible team for the last 5 years.

Clarkson is nothing special and neither is Randle or Nance. You have 2 potential stars and they are only that because there isnt enough info to know yet.

no superstar is taking into account what you did for other 35 year old players at the end of their careers, they just arent. superstars care about money and winning, not if you paid Wade or Kobe max deals when they were 35.

this conversation wasn't about that anyway. this conversation was about not giving the kobe contract to wade. If you sat through the last 5-6 year of god awful basketball watching the Lakers and think it was worth it congrats to pay him and watch him slowly fall apart in front of your eyes while your team is the worst in the league congrats, youre a moron.

No **** the lakers will have more pieces for the future when theyve been awful for 5-6 years and theyve been able to get high draft picks in those years.

Give the heat 6 years to be terrible and i'm willing to bet they'll have some solid pieces as well.

Exactly, they have been bad, they took care of a legend and built up pieces for the future. Clarkson might not be anything special but he is pretty good. Think his ceiling is starting on a borderline playoff team to a really good 6th man on a good team. Same with Randle and Nance, but Ingram and Russell look pretty good and have a chance to be special. And we got all that while Kobe was here.

nycericanguy
07-07-2016, 12:54 PM
Kobe was making 35% of the cap at the end, Wade at $23m would have been making about 23% of the cap over the next two years. If Wade were asking for 35% max then I could see why Riley would say no, but it seems he was actually asking for a very reasonable contract.

So it's not really comparable. Not to mention Kobe was 37 and on his last legs. Wade is 34 and still an all star, heck he almost single handily beat TOR last playoff.

AllBall
07-07-2016, 12:55 PM
No. Riley brought the HEAT from the depths of hell in 1995, thus was born the fierce Knicks rivalry with Zo and Timmy and we've never looked back since.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 12:58 PM
Exactly, they have been bad, they took care of a legend and built up pieces for the future. Clarkson might not be anything special but he is pretty good. Think his ceiling is starting on a borderline playoff team to a really good 6th man on a good team. Same with Randle and Nance, but Ingram and Russell look pretty good and have a chance to be special. And we got all that while Kobe was here.

lol, they weren't trying to take care of a legend and be bad, genius. They were bad because they tried to take care of a legend. they were trying to win still. congrats, you took care of your legend and 6 years later you MIGHT POSSIBLY have talent on your team.

Clarkson is a rotation player. Nothing more. Nance averaged 5 and 5 on a terrible team as a 23 year old rookie. good luck counting on him. Randle is a low ceiling solid player but nothing you can really build significantly around. You have literally no clue what Russell or Ingram are. And on top of that you dont have your first round pick next year most likely.

So in what world was that kobe contract beneficial other than it made you terrible for a prolonged period enough for you to actually make first round draft picks.
Again, I'll take the cap space and memories.

edit- so after the kobe contract you have 6 years (with more to come) of a terrible team, a rotation player, a possible 6th man, a 27th overall pick who didn't show anything special, the laughingstock of the league last year in Russell, and another 19 year old who was the 2nd pick in the draft that experts considered to be the worst draft in a very long time.

On top of losing your first round pick for next year as well because the Lakers were also stupid not to realize Steve Nash was done too.

Kobe contract for Wade? I'll take the cap space.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:00 PM
No. Riley brought the HEAT from the depths of hell in 1995, thus was born the fierce Knicks rivalry with Zo and Timmy and we've never looked back since.

Never looked back? Those teams never even made the Finals. They haven't made any Finals without Wade. From 95 until Wade cam they only had like four 50 win seasons, lost in the 1st round four times and only made the East finals once.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:01 PM
Just so you understand, LeBron didn't come to Miami for Pat Riley... So keep thinking Pat Riley is the mastermind behind that. LeBron+Wade+Bosh had been colluding years before.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 01:02 PM
Kobe delayed the process by letting us tank and get the #2 pick in back to back years and the #7 pick 3 years ago? No free agent was coming if we Kept Howard over Kobe, Howard is a clown. They kept Kobe, paid him, had a season long party, and in 3 years gained a lot of young assets, now Kobe is gone and they have a young roster that can start playing together with a new coach and system. I don't know if Westbrook will come, but they can trade for someone using Clarkson and Randle while keeping Russell and Ingram to see if the team looks better for Westbrook. I do know that the Lakers have a way better shot at attracting Westbrook to LA than the HEAT do to Miami. He is from LA and if he looks at both teams, he knows one will take care of him.

As they should. They've been basically rebuilding since PJ left.

Lol you say that with pride don't you? "Kobe delayed the process by letting us tank and get the #2 pick in back to back years and the #7 pick 3 years ago?". Lmaoo

He's slowed development of younger players and affected locker room chemistry for the Lakers as a whole. As said, the rebuild starts this year.

Heat are already set with NBA caliber young assets like Richardson, Winslow, Whiteside, Tyler Johnson (assuming they match.) and imo have a much more established roster (even after all the dust settled of this offseason) to try and lure Westbrook.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:02 PM
lol, they weren't trying to take care of a legend and be bad, genius. They were bad because they tried to take care of a legend. they were trying to win still. congrats, you took care of your legend and 6 years later you MIGHT POSSIBLY have talent on your team.

Clarkson is a rotation player. Nothing more. Nance averaged 5 and 5 on a terrible team as a 23 year old rookie. good luck counting on him. Randle is a low ceiling solid player but nothing you can really build significantly around. You have literally no clue what Russell or Ingram are. And on top of that you dont have your first round pick next year most likely.

So in what world was that kobe contract beneficial other than it made you terrible for a prolonged period enough for you to actually make first round draft picks.
Again, I'll take the cap space and memories.

The types of FA's they signed and hiring Byron says otherwise. They swung for the fences with the big names, when they missed they didn't try and sign guys that would help, they signed bad players on 1 year deals.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:03 PM
your reasons for the kobe contract are that it made you terrible for long enough to gain assets you dont know are any good yet and watch your hero break down before your eyes, all while delaying the rebuilding and starting over for 3 years.

ya, what a great deal.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:06 PM
The types of FA's they signed and hiring Byron says otherwise. They swung for the fences with the big names, when they missed they didn't try and sign guys that would help, they signed bad players on 1 year deals.

jesus chris dude that was over a year after kobe signed that contract and they realized what a ridiculous mistake theey made. you 100% know you are wrong.

Not to mention the Heat weren't looking to sign Dwyane for his last years in a rebuilding plan. We are trying to win, not waste 5 years of a franchise only to not know if we have 1 legitimate star on our team.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:06 PM
your reasons for the kobe contract are that it made you terrible for long enough to gain assets you dont know are any good yet and watch your hero break down before your eyes, all while delaying the rebuilding and starting over for 3 years.

ya, what a great deal.

How did they delay it for 3 years... Your Heat are stuck paying Bosh+Whiteside. Nice, good enough to make the 10th seed. Have fun. How great would it be when Bosh is sidelined by bloodclots again and you have to rely on Whiteside+Goran Tragic to carry you guys.. Good luck.

J_M_B
07-07-2016, 01:07 PM
If you guys think letting him go is the right move then shouldn't you be furious with Riley for offering 2 years, $40M? That extra $3.5M/year makes no material difference on what a hinderance he would be to rebuilding. 2 years $40M and 2 years $47M is really no different for you guys.

We wanted him back of course, but not the expense of the team's flexibility going forward.

What he was seeking financially would've required Riley to start gutting the team (which only has 6 players under contract to begin with). It was being reported by a few credible reporters in So Florida that teams wanted asessts to take on any contracts (mostly McRoberts). If that's the case, you can't allow a player to take your franchise hostage, no matter his prestige.

But honestly it more then just the money .. Feelings got hurt on both sides. Wade wanted to be paid for his past sacrifices and wanted to be prioritized over Hassan and the Durant sweepstakes. Miami made the right decision and standed pat, take it or leave.

Can't let emotions get in the way. He'll always be my favorite player though

AllBall
07-07-2016, 01:09 PM
Never looked back? Those teams never even made the Finals. They haven't made any Finals without Wade. From 95 until Wade cam they only had like four 50 win seasons, lost in the 1st round four times and only made the East finals once.

It's clear you didn't watch 90s basketball, you only read about it.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:09 PM
As they should. They've been basically rebuilding since PJ left.

Lol you say that with pride don't you? "Kobe delayed the process by letting us tank and get the #2 pick in back to back years and the #7 pick 3 years ago". Lmaoo

He's slowed development of younger players and affected locker room chemistry for the Lakers as a whole. As said, the rebuild starts this year.

Heat are already set with NBA caliber young assets like Richardson, Winslow, Whiteside, Tyler Johnson (assuming they match.) and imo have a much more established roster (even after all the dust settled of this offseason) to try and lure Westbrook.

Hell ya I say it with pride. The dude let me watch my team win 5 championships.

Richardson and Whiteside are good, but Winslow isn't anything special, same with Johnson.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:10 PM
Just so you understand, LeBron didn't come to Miami for Pat Riley... So keep thinking Pat Riley is the mastermind behind that. LeBron+Wade+Bosh had been colluding years before.

if by colluding you mean players planning on playing together, sure, whatever, they colluded. Who cares? If you were an nba star who could choose where you wanted to go and had other superstars who were your best friends, you'd do the same thing.

Wade may have convinced them to come here but Riley also stripped down a championship team and its pieces and had a team full of nothing but Daequan Cook and Michael Beasley on the roster, both on rookie deals, to make room on the team salary cap.

Riley turned Shaq and his huge old *** and huge contract into Marion who we turned into Jermaine O'Neal,,all with a plan to get a huge contract that expires when all these huge guys become free agents.

So did Wade help bring them here? No ****. But Riley also maneuvered the pieces so that he could build the team from scratch like he did.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:12 PM
It's clear you didn't watch 90s basketball, you only read about it.

I watched, as the Bulls dominated, and teams like the Knicks and Magic got a finals appearance. Miami was a really good team for one of those years and they still didn't make the finals

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:15 PM
jesus chris dude that was over a year after kobe signed that contract and they realized what a ridiculous mistake theey made. you 100% know you are wrong.

Not to mention the Heat weren't looking to sign Dwyane for his last years in a rebuilding plan. We are trying to win, not waste 5 years of a franchise only to not know if we have 1 legitimate star on our team.

What exactly are the HEAT trying to win? How do they plan on doing that? They will be good enough to not get good picks in years they do have a pick and not good enough to get anyone great to come play for them.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:15 PM
How did they delay it for 3 years... Your Heat are stuck paying Bosh+Whiteside. Nice, good enough to make the 10th seed. Have fun. How great would it be when Bosh is sidelined by bloodclots again and you have to rely on Whiteside+Goran Tragic to carry you guys.. Good luck.

They delayed it for 3 years by giving the team and most of the teams money to Kobe and not letting anyone develop.

The Heat team as currenty constituted has a star (albeit one with blood clots), a top 5 center, a good PG capable of leading a team, a 2nd round stud on a tiny contract.

And you've never seen a game or are talking out of your *** if you think Winslow is nothing special. As a 19 year old rookie he was already on the premier perimter defenders in the game and started a game at center in the playoffs because of his maturity and defensive ability. Once he gets his jumper down he will be a top 15-20 player in the league for 10 years. No to mention we still have 20 million this year to spend and have over 30 million next summer and if Bosh cant play again his 27 million in salary comes off of our books in February.

The heat actually have a future the day after Wade left. The lakers gave Kobe that reward for previous accomplishments 4 years ago and we still have literally 0 clue if they have any stars on their team.

Ty Fast
07-07-2016, 01:16 PM
If you guys think letting him go is the right move then shouldn't you be furious with Riley for offering 2 years, $40M? That extra $3.5M/year makes no material difference on what a hinderance he would be to rebuilding. 2 years $40M and 2 years $47M is really no different for you guys.

Exactly. It was only 3.5 million per year. Why not just split the difference. I blame both but in the end its just business.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:18 PM
What exactly are the HEAT trying to win? How do they plan on doing that? They will be good enough to not get good picks in years they do have a pick and not good enough to get anyone great to come play for them.

The Heat have a team of
Dragic/Richardson
Tyler Johnson
Winslow
Bosh
Whiteside

That would be a top 5 center, a top 5 pf when healthy (and if he cant play we get his 27 million in cap space starting in february), one fo the best perimeter defenders in the league at 19 in Winslow, a 2nd orund pick on what is essentially a minimum deal for the next 2 years who proved he can play in this league, and a guy in Goran who is a very good player and also on a deal at 15 million that now actually provides some value.

And we still have our first round pick for next year.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:20 PM
Hell ya I say it with pride. The dude let me watch my team win 5 championships.

Richardson and Whiteside are good, but Winslow isn't anything special, same with Johnson.

and hell ya brother, those 5 championships really meant a lot when he was crippling your franchise for like a 5 year span when he wasn't even playing half the time because he was injured.

You would be an awful businessman considering you don't understand the difference between past and future performance.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:21 PM
if by colluding you mean players planning on playing together, sure, whatever, they colluded. Who cares? If you were an nba star who could choose where you wanted to go and had other superstars who were your best friends, you'd do the same thing.

Wade may have convinced them to come here but Riley also stripped down a championship team and its pieces and had a team full of nothing but Daequan Cook and Michael Beasley on the roster, both on rookie deals, to make room on the team salary cap.

Riley turned Shaq and his huge old *** and huge contract into Marion who we turned into Jermaine O'Neal,,all with a plan to get a huge contract that expires when all these huge guys become free agents.

So did Wade help bring them here? No ****. But Riley also maneuvered the pieces so that he could build the team from scratch like he did.

Riley stripping down the entire team is irrelevant if LeBron doesn't want to go there. He only went there because they didn't want to go to Cleveland. Cleveland vs Toronto vs Miami: Gee, I wonder which area is more appealing...

beasted86
07-07-2016, 01:23 PM
In his 21 seasons so far:
17 playoffs trips, 7 ECF troops, 5 NBA finals trips, 3 championships.

Why would I despise him?

Not mad at the Riley/Arison nor Wade overall. Obviously I wanted them to keep Wade, but it's clear the $5M difference (after state taxes difference) means more to Wade right now at this near end stage of his career than staying with the same team. It's possible within himself he feels a sharp decline coming and didn't think he could make it one more season on a 1 and 1 contract again. I thank him for everything and feel he had every right to do whatever he wanted.

For Miami's part, they prioritized Whiteside (as they should have) and offered Wade as much as they could. No Wade is not worth renouncing the QO to Johnson or cutting Weber just to try and get a little closer to the Bulls offer.

For the long run, I prefer starting the rebuild now and hopefully by the time 2020 rolls around we are better by then so we don't give Phoenix an unprotected top 3 pick.

Slug3
07-07-2016, 01:23 PM
Just so you understand, LeBron didn't come to Miami for Pat Riley... So keep thinking Pat Riley is the mastermind behind that. LeBron+Wade+Bosh had been colluding years before.

Riley may not of been able to be a sole reason Lebron and Bosh came to Miami, but he did have to make the salary open so they had a chance to get all 3. That is how he helped out, he also helped get UD to take less instead of go to Dallas, get Battier and Miller on board. Helped with Allen as well. Sure it also helped that Miami had the big 3, but Riley was still needed to make salaries work. Marion wanted a big contract and Riley didn't give it to him, if he would have we would never of gotten those 3.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:24 PM
The Heat have a team of
Dragic/Richardson
Tyler Johnson
Winslow
Bosh
Whiteside

That would be a top 5 center, a top 5 pf when healthy (and if he cant play we get his 27 million in cap space starting in february), one fo the best perimeter defenders in the league at 19 in Winslow, a 2nd orund pick on what is essentially a minimum deal for the next 2 years who proved he can play in this league, and a guy in Goran who is a very good player and also on a deal at 15 million that now actually provides some value.

And we still have our first round pick for next year.

Lol; STOP. Your team would be LUCKY to make the playoffs next season if they somehow don't make changes. You lost your key veterans and voice of the locker room in Wade/Deng. Now you have a guy who's future is unknown, Whiteside is an immature kid who got his money. He might not play as hard as he did this season. Lack of offensive talent and child-like. Who else? Josh McRoberts? Goran Dragic is good, not elite or great. He's not even a top 15 PG..

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:24 PM
The Heat have a team of
Dragic/Richardson
Tyler Johnson
Winslow
Bosh
Whiteside

That would be a top 5 center, a top 5 pf when healthy (and if he cant play we get his 27 million in cap space starting in february), one fo the best perimeter defenders in the league at 19 in Winslow, a 2nd orund pick on what is essentially a minimum deal for the next 2 years who proved he can play in this league, and a guy in Goran who is a very good player and also on a deal at 15 million that now actually provides some value.

And we still have our first round pick for next year.

Looks pretty bad to me, but Ill just let their record speak on that.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 01:26 PM
Riley stripping down the entire team is irrelevant if LeBron doesn't want to go there. He only went there because they didn't want to go to Cleveland. Cleveland vs Toronto vs Miami: Gee, I wonder which area is more appealing...
Chicago, New York, New Jersey(BK), LA just to name a few more.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:29 PM
Looks pretty bad to me, but Ill just let their record speak on that.

I don't know what he was trying to prove with that... That's hardly impressive. East has five or six teams that are easily better.

Pacers
Hawks
Knicks
Cavs
Boston
Detroit
Raptors..

Again, Heat would be lucky to make the playoffs. He's happy about that?????

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:30 PM
Chicago, New York, New Jersey(BK), LA just to name a few more.

New Jersey? What? And Wade was already in Miami... It would make more sense for them to relocate to a franchise one is already in because they knew how the system would work...

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:31 PM
and hell ya brother, those 5 championships really meant a lot when he was crippling your franchise for like a 5 year span when he wasn't even playing half the time because he was injured.

You would be an awful businessman considering you don't understand the difference between past and future performance.

Not goign to win every year? How did it cripple us? We had space for a max almost every year he was here. No star took our money and we didn't offer any B type players any contracts over a year or 2. They always kept the cap flexable. Even is they let Kobe go, they still were not going to get a FA on a bad team and they couldn't trade picks untill 2021, the only reason they got the picks was because they were bad enough to beat the protection. If they would have let Kobe go and filled the team with B type FA's they still wouldn't have made the playoffs and they probably would have been good enough not to be in position to draft they guys they got.


That is the road Miami is going down. They will be a borderline playoff team drafting at like 10,11, or 12. Those players rarely turn into stars, so unless they land a Westbrook or something like that, they will be an a treadmill

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:33 PM
Lol; STOP. Your team would be LUCKY to make the playoffs next season if they somehow don't make changes. You lost your key veterans and voice of the locker room in Wade/Deng. Now you have a guy who's future is unknown, Whiteside is an immature kid who got his money. He might not play as hard as he did this season. Lack of offensive talent and child-like. Who else? Josh McRoberts? Goran Dragic is good, not elite or great. He's not even a top 15 PG..

I never said they would make the playoffs next year. But they have a future and both good young pieces as well as stars. If they get Bosh back they have a hall of fame PF to continue to build around. If he has to retire they have almost 60 million in cap spaace next summer.

We might not be a playoff team currently (If we're healthy we are, but bosh is a huge question mark), but the purpose of this discussion is to show that the heat made the correct move. If that team isnt a playoff team without Wade, why would we keep wade around to be a 6 seed, waste 2-3 years of the franchise to be non-competitive.

Without signing Wade we have 20 million more to spend to fill out the roster. Continue building around Justise and Whiteside, and if Bosh plays we have a star we can have as our number 1 option, if he can't play we free up 27 million in cap space.

If you can't see why letting Wade go was the right move, keep watching your lakers struggle to rebuild and then you'll see.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:35 PM
Not goign to win every year? How did it cripple us? We had space for a max almost every year he was here. No star took our money and we didn't offer any B type players any contracts over a year or 2. They always kept the cap flexable. Even is they let Kobe go, they still were not going to get a FA on a bad team and they couldn't trade picks untill 2021, the only reason they got the picks was because they were bad enough to beat the protection. If they would have let Kobe go and filled the team with B type FA's they still wouldn't have made the playoffs and they probably would have been good enough not to be in position to draft they guys they got.


That is the road Miami is going down. They will be a borderline playoff team drafting at like 10,11, or 12. Those players rarely turn into stars, so unless they land a Westbrook or something like that, they will be an a treadmill

You really dont see how Kobe's contract crippled you and made you into the joke of the league and left you terrible for the last 4 years and probably terrible for the forseeable future? I'm done with this. Miami made the right move.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:37 PM
I don't know what he was trying to prove with that... That's hardly impressive. East has five or six teams that are easily better.

Pacers
Hawks
Knicks
Cavs
Boston
Detroit
Raptors..

Again, Heat would be lucky to make the playoffs. He's happy about that?????

i'm not arguing they will make the playoffs, which they still should if bosh stays healthy. I'm arguing we still have talent and flexibility in the future and we didnt mortgage the next 5 years of the franchise for sentimental reasons based on what someone did for us in the past.

Really not that complicated to understand.

Clint Olbrock
07-07-2016, 01:40 PM
Dallas in 2011? The one Lebron choked away for the Heat?

Yeah it's 3 but even then most fans don't see their team sniff 3 titles in their lifetime.

Cause anything you say has significance. Noted.

Your team is gonna be real good next year bud.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 01:40 PM
New Jersey? What? And Wade was already in Miami... It would make more sense for them to relocate to a franchise one is already in because they knew how the system would work...

What does that have to do with my post? You said "He only went there because he didn't want to go to Cleveland." and something about deciding between only Cleveland, Toronto and Miami?

He chose Miami over all the cities mentioned including NJ at the time so it's not like he had no options.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:40 PM
i'm not arguing they will make the playoffs, which they still should if bosh stays healthy. I'm arguing we still have talent and flexibility in the future and we didnt mortgage the next 5 years of the franchise for sentimental reasons based on what someone did for us in the past.

Really not that complicated to understand.

What flexibility do you have? Mortgage the franchise for five years? How did you conclude that when they haven't even made any moves yet thus far? If they sign Tyler Johnson, do you think that was worth losing Wade for? Give me a break, dude. Miami is nearly $50 million locked in with two players who are questionable "stars." After what they did to Wade and how players around the league respect Wade, don't be surprised if future talent take that into consideration when going to Miami.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:43 PM
You really dont see how Kobe's contract crippled you and made you into the joke of the league and left you terrible for the last 4 years and probably terrible for the forseeable future? I'm done with this. Miami made the right move.

It didn't though. It worked out. Joke of the NBA is fine because that is the only way to get top 3 picks. The future is bright, new coach, a handfull of talented young guys, and a max spot open just in case. Even more trad-able assets than the HEAT have. You should worry about the team you have going there because is is pretty bad.

I mean you brought the Lakers into this thread, but you had no idea that they are looking way more attractive than Miami. Players also notice how teams handle players at the end of their careers. They seen this thing with Wade, along with Riley trying to get Bosh to retire enough for Bosh to get the players union involved.

RowBTrice
07-07-2016, 01:43 PM
Wait, Riley is still getting credit for bringing the Big 3 to Miami? Lol. C'mon......

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 01:43 PM
What does that have to do with my post? You said "He only went there because he didn't want to go to Cleveland." and something about deciding between only Cleveland, Toronto and Miami?

He chose Miami over all the cities mentioned including NJ at the time.

You said NJ is more appealing than Miami? And I mentioned THREE cities (Toronto vs Cleveland vs Miami). Out of those three options, Miami was clearly most appealing. Why are you throwing more cities in? Chicago were locked into contracts with D.Rose and Boozer. New York already had Amare.. You're just naming cities for no reason.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 01:43 PM
Your team is gonna be real good next year bud.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, buddy!

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:48 PM
What flexibility do you have? Mortgage the franchise for five years? How did you conclude that when they haven't even made any moves yet thus far? If they sign Tyler Johnson, do you think that was worth losing Wade for? Give me a break, dude. Miami is nearly $50 million locked in with two players who are questionable "stars." After what they did to Wade and how players around the league respect Wade, don't be surprised if future talent take that into consideration when going to Miami.

Also don't be surprised if future talent comes to miami soon because they have young players, assets, and a star and cap room as well as an organization that will do anything in its power to be relevant and not consistently bad and always have a plan run by a guy in Pat Riley who is an NBA legend.

What flexibility do we have? well since we didnt give wade a contract we not have close to 35 million in cap room next year currently, with an ability to make it 67 million if bosh is forced to retire and we can get rid of McRoberts contract.

Signing Wade would have mortgaged any legitimate shot this team had at actually competing for a title for at least the next 3 years. Now we actually have pieces to trade and cap room to work with if we wanted to go for it.

The Heat don't sign up to be mediocre. We could have signed wade and thrown any hope of a star player coming here for the next 3 years in the garbage, or we could let him walk, let our young guys develop, see what happens with Bosh (can he come back and be our star or does he retired and give us the most cap space in the league) and have flexibility to make a move for a star.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-07-2016, 01:48 PM
You said NJ is more appealing than Miami? And I mentioned THREE cities (Toronto vs Cleveland vs Miami). Out of those three options, Miami was clearly most appealing. Why are you throwing more cities in? Chicago were locked into contracts with D.Rose and Boozer. New York already had Amare.. You're just naming cities for no reason.

I'm naming teams that he was deciding between. Boozer and Amare hadn't even signed with Chicago and New York respectively yet. IIRC New York had enough space for two max contracts means they could have got both Amare and Lebron. Clippers and NJ were in the running too.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:51 PM
Also don't be surprised if future talent comes to miami soon because they have young players, assets, and a star and cap room as well as an organization that will do anything in its power to be relevant and not consistently bad and always have a plan run by a guy in Pat Riley who is an NBA legend.

What flexibility do we have? well since we didnt give wade a contract we not have close to 35 million in cap room next year currently, with an ability to make it 67 million if bosh is forced to retire and we can get rid of McRoberts contract.

Signing Wade would have mortgaged any legitimate shot this team had at actually competing for a title for at least the next 3 years. Now we actually have pieces to trade and cap room to work with if we wanted to go for it.

The Heat don't sign up to be mediocre. We could have signed wade and thrown any hope of a star player coming here for the next 3 years in the garbage, or we could let him walk, let our young guys develop, see what happens with Bosh (can he come back and be our star or does he retired and give us the most cap space in the league) and have flexibility to make a move for a star.

Sit back and watch this play out. The heat will be bad for a while. It is still probably going to get worse

mia1619
07-07-2016, 01:53 PM
It didn't though. It worked out. Joke of the NBA is fine because that is the only way to get top 3 picks. The future is bright, new coach, a handfull of talented young guys, and a max spot open just in case. Even more trad-able assets than the HEAT have. You should worry about the team you have going there because is is pretty bad.

I mean you brought the Lakers into this thread, but you had no idea that they are looking way more attractive than Miami. Players also notice how teams handle players at the end of their careers. They seen this thing with Wade, along with Riley trying to get Bosh to retire enough for Bosh to get the players union involved.

the thing is, which you clearly dont get, is that you have literally 0 clue if it worked. You have no idea if you have any meaningful piece, 4 years later. You have guys that were high picks, but Randle isnt a star, Russell is a moron who you still dont know is good, and Ingram is a rookie who hasn't even played in the summer league. And that is what you consider successful 4 years and many awful years later. That is your idea of it working currently.


Lakers don't look more attractive in any way shape or form. You have 3 first round picks that you have no idea are any good, a head coach who you have no idea is competent, and a joke of a culture in your organization, which is the thing the Heat are praised around the league for.

The heat didn't give that contract, won't be the worst team in the league for the next 3 years, maintained future flexibility all while having talent that we already have from the start, not having to sit through terrible season after terrible season until you get draft picks.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 01:59 PM
the thing is, which you clearly dont get, is that you have literally 0 clue if it worked. You have no idea if you have any meaningful piece, 4 years later. You have guys that were high picks, but Randle isnt a star, Russell is a moron who you still dont know is good, and Ingram is a rookie who hasn't even played in the summer league. And that is what you consider successful 4 years and many awful years later. That is your idea of it working currently.


Lakers don't look more attractive in any way shape or form. You have 3 first round picks that you have no idea are any good, a head coach who you have no idea is competent, and a joke of a culture in your organization, which is the thing the Heat are praised around the league for.

The heat didn't give that contract, won't be the worst team in the league for the next 3 years, maintained future flexibility all while having talent that we already have from the start, not having to sit through terrible season after terrible season until you get draft picks.

Sure buddy, the Lakers young core have a lot more potential than what the heat have. Most of them will be better than Winslow. I have no idea but you are the smart one that said Winslow will be a top 15-20 player in the NBA soon. Take the homer glasses off, the heat are bad, young talent isn't that good, not a lot of picks coming, and it is going to get worse.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 02:00 PM
Wow, lots of negativity.

So most posters in here are fighting over mediocrity? Because we all know only 3 teams as of right now have a shot of making it to the Final's.

Most of us HEAT fans believe we will have a good free flowing team; does it really matter if other teams fans dont believe that?

Everyone just enjoy your own teams.

Chronz
07-07-2016, 02:01 PM
Loyalty is for suckaz

Big Zo
07-07-2016, 02:16 PM
Wow, lots of negativity.

So most posters in here are fighting over mediocrity? Because we all know only 3 teams as of right now have a shot of making it to the Final's.

Most of us HEAT fans believe we will have a good free flowing team; does it really matter if other teams fans dont believe that?

Everyone just enjoy your own teams.

3 is pushing it. Hard to see anyone beating GS the next 5-6 years.

Chronz
07-07-2016, 02:22 PM
Now we find it if Wade truly was Miami's best player or if he was simply holding Dragic back.

Now we see if an 80's team in Chicago can play vs todays style of play.


Oh and JJH, you were wrong about Haslem. Wade actually took the biggest paycut of the 3 stars to make room for his buddy Haslem. Haslem was getting ready to sign with Denver for the MLE but Miami gave him the added years IIRC. If it was for the min it wouldve been a better contract.

Big Zo
07-07-2016, 02:22 PM
Wait, Riley is still getting credit for bringing the Big 3 to Miami? Lol. C'mon......

Pat wouldn't sign players to contracts that would affect what they were trying to do that particular summer. He definitely deserves credit.

LivinLakers
07-07-2016, 02:46 PM
Heat fans should probably just stop and get honest with themselves. After this incident there is virtually no way young stars are gonna go the the heat as long as they have other options.
Without that, the heat are in the worst possible situation. Just good enough to make the playoffs and miss out on draft picks, but not good enough to do much once they get there.
The heat needs to dump players now and work on tanking. Whiteside is a good player to surround with young guys and is a good piece for the future. But right now, Miami's best days are behind them for quite a while. Even longer if you kid yourselves and think that you will be competing again soon.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 02:56 PM
Heat fans should probably just stop and get honest with themselves. After this incident there is virtually no way young stars are gonna go the the heat as long as they have other options.
Without that, the heat are in the worst possible situation. Just good enough to make the playoffs and miss out on draft picks, but not good enough to do much once they get there.
The heat needs to dump players now and work on tanking. Whiteside is a good player to surround with young guys and is a good piece for the future. But right now, Miami's best days are behind them for quite a while. Even longer if you kid yourselves and think that you will be competing again soon.

Miami will still be on top of the list of free agent players.We dont no the full story between Wade & Miami.

Just stop it. You will see.

And Miami has a nice young core, if thry want to take, just dont play Bosh & trade dragic. Pat will make the right call. But you are wrong about Miami being out of it for a while.

We will have over 30mil next off season & if they get Bosh of the books, it's more like 52mil.

CHANGO
07-07-2016, 02:57 PM
Wow, lots of negativity.

So most posters in here are fighting over mediocrity? Because we all know only 3 teams as of right now have a shot of making it to the Final's.

Most of us HEAT fans believe we will have a good free flowing team; does it really matter if other teams fans dont believe that?

Everyone just enjoy your own teams.

This people saying that Miami was dumb and needs to rebuild should say that about 25 other teams too. Either you suck for years to get draft picks (Lakers, Sixers), are average and compete (Grizzlies, Mavs, Pacers, HEAT with Wade etc...) or you are a contender, Spurs, Cavs, Warriors. That's it.

Right now I'm fine with having a nice young entertaining team.

kobe4thewinbang
07-07-2016, 02:57 PM
Pat Riley knows what he is doing. Wade's time was done. Heat will be better for it. They have Whiteside for the future and Winslow as well. I'm sure Riley is luring some leftover FA's or working a trade or two. They'll be fine. The Heat organization is used to a rocky state. Had some horrid teams, then some decent ones, then obviously championship level ones and championship winning teams. Now they don't have Wade eating 20+ million and not quite earning it on the floor and not escaping the second round.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:00 PM
Entertaining? Lol.. Most "Heat fans" in the arenas show up late. I went to one game and these fans show up in the 2nd quarter, leave at halftime, and come back late in the 3rd or early 4th. Many know of Wade and who he is and can care less about Bosh. The only one who will find them entertaining are true Heat fans.

Wade n Fade
07-07-2016, 03:04 PM
Heat fans should probably just stop and get honest with themselves. After this incident there is virtually no way young stars are gonna go the the heat as long as they have other options.
Without that, the heat are in the worst possible situation. Just good enough to make the playoffs and miss out on draft picks, but not good enough to do much once they get there.
The heat needs to dump players now and work on tanking. Whiteside is a good player to surround with young guys and is a good piece for the future. But right now, Miami's best days are behind them for quite a while. Even longer if you kid yourselves and think that you will be competing again soon.

Miami isn't like LA though. We have the advantage of no state income tax in Florida. The weather, women, night life, and beaches are attractions. LA could offer that but it will be with higher taxes. Miami isn't a sorry city like Mil. The Bucks are rebuilding through the draft and barely signed any big time FAs. You have to realize they have gone through a 15 win season and managed to bounce back big time with the Big Three. We need a taker for Dragic like a Rondo to Dallas type of deal to add picks and/or young players to develop. Whiteside is still here too. Miami will be fine.

CHANGO
07-07-2016, 03:30 PM
Entertaining? Lol.. Most "Heat fans" in the arenas show up late. I went to one game and these fans show up in the 2nd quarter, leave at halftime, and come back late in the 3rd or early 4th. Many know of Wade and who he is and can care less about Bosh. The only one who will find them entertaining are true Heat fans.

What the **** the HEAT fans in the arena have to do with me watching the team and finding them entertaining?

Oh I guess then that in the Big Three Era the same fans showing late means the Big Three weren't entertaining.

LMAO...

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:32 PM
What the **** the HEAT fans in the arena have to do with me watching the team and finding them entertaining?

Oh I guess then that in the Big Three Era the same fans showing late means the Big Three weren't entertaining.

LMAO...

Just saying the Heat fans in attendance at arenas are laughable when they are nationally televised games airing. How entertaining can Goran Dragic and Justice Winslow be... lol...

ciaban
07-07-2016, 03:42 PM
If anyone has reason to be mad, it's Hasan Whiteside, that team is going to blow.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 03:44 PM
Entertaining? Lol.. Most "Heat fans" in the arenas show up late. I went to one game and these fans show up in the 2nd quarter, leave at halftime, and come back late in the 3rd or early 4th. Many know of Wade and who he is and can care less about Bosh. The only one who will find them entertaining are true Heat fans.
considering i've had season tickets every year since shaq's first year here, you are literally just making things up. Every arena has late showing fans and every single arena in the league is empty at the start of most 3rd quarters.

ciaban
07-07-2016, 03:44 PM
They were only $3.5 million apart amd they couldnt figure something out?? This really sucks and hurts!!

I always thought Wade would be a career player, but I've always been understanding of guys forgoing it to play for their home town team. This isn't on the level of Dirk leaving the Mavs, that would be tragic.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:46 PM
considering i've had season tickets every year since shaq's first year here, you are literally just making things up. Every arena has late showing fans and every single arena in the league is empty at the start of most 3rd quarters.

And which arena has fans leave NBA Finals games because their team is losing and then try to run back into the arena when they start winning again? Lol, you are DELUSIONAL. Miami Heat arena fans have a reputation for being rich folks with nothing better to do with their money.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 03:46 PM
If anyone has reason to be mad, it's Hasan Whiteside, that team is going to blow.
It really isn't. At least if Bosh stays healthy. If he can't play I say make it about Winslow, Whiteside, and Richardson and just focus on them improving as much as possible and use our first rounder next year to get another piece and then if Bosh is hurt we will have something like 55 million in cap space next summer.

We still have another 20 million to add guys on one year deals to this team. Obviously if Bosh is hurt next year we should tank, but with Bosh back and healthy that will be a low end playoff team.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 03:47 PM
And which arena has fans leave NBA Finals games because their team is losing and then try to run back into the arena when they start winning again? Lol, you are DELUSIONAL. Miami Heat arena fans have a reputation for being rich folks with nothing better to do with their money.

didn't that happen this year in the finals or conference finals where the exact same thing happened?

you clearly have some built up hate to the Heat. I'm going to assume you really didn't like the Lebron heat years?

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:50 PM
didn't that happen this year in the finals or conference finals where the exact same thing happened?

you clearly have some built up hate to the Heat. I'm going to assume you really didn't like the Lebron heat years?

Yeah, I really hate the Heat. They are so important that I hate on them for fun.. get real. I'll admit we won't be a good team next season but just admit Heat aren't either. If you say they are, you are seriously in for a big surprise.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 03:54 PM
Yeah, I really hate the Heat. They are so important that I hate on them for fun.. get real. I'll admit we won't be a good team next season but just admit Heat aren't either. If you say they are, you are seriously in for a big surprise.

Lol there's pretty obvious some clear disdain for things the Heat have done in the last few years from you. I don't even know who your team is.

I've said multiple times the Heat most likely won't be great next year, but they are also in a better place today because they stuck to their plan and didn't give Wade that contract. They will be great again faster, whenever that will be, because they did this. And our long term future can be much brighter today for life post wade then it was if he was to stay on that contract.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 03:56 PM
Lol there's pretty obvious some clear disdain for things the Heat have done in the last few years from you. I don't even know who your team is.

I've said multiple times the Heat most likely won't be great next year, but they are also in a better place today because they stuck to their plan and didn't give Wade that contract. They will be great again faster, whenever that will be, because they did this. And our long term future can be much brighter today for life post wade then it was if he was to stay on that contract.

Who can they trade for/sign right now that makes them better down the line? Tyler Johnson? Your team as it is now, sucks. With Wade, it would have been less suckier. And I also said my team sucks as well. I guess I'm a hater of my own team?

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 04:09 PM
Miami isn't like LA though. We have the advantage of no state income tax in Florida. The weather, women, night life, and beaches are attractions. LA could offer that but it will be with higher taxes. Miami isn't a sorry city like Mil. The Bucks are rebuilding through the draft and barely signed any big time FAs. You have to realize they have gone through a 15 win season and managed to bounce back big time with the Big Three. We need a taker for Dragic like a Rondo to Dallas type of deal to add picks and/or young players to develop. Whiteside is still here too. Miami will be fine.

Miami sure isn't LA. Nobody took that tax free money since Lebron and the boys teamed up. South Beach is great, but the LA market, the City of LA and Orange County takes a dump on Miami.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:14 PM
Who can they trade for/sign right now that makes them better down the line? Tyler Johnson? Your team as it is now, sucks. With Wade, it would have been less suckier. And I also said my team sucks as well. I guess I'm a hater of my own team?

It's pretty obvious you don't get cap dynamics. You don't give 47 million to a 34-35 year old guy when your peak at the very best possibility is a 2nd round exit.

IDK what your teams philosophy is, but in Miami Riley goes only for championships. Every move is within the scope that championships are the end goal. We're not giving a contract to a 34 year old who will hamstring our cap situation for the next 3 years at least.

Take some notes from the Lakers giving out lifetime achievement contracts.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:17 PM
Miami sure isn't LA. Nobody took that tax free money since Lebron and the boys teamed up. South Beach is great, but the LA market, the City of LA and Orange County takes a dump on Miami.

lol "takes a dump on South Beach" yet haven't signed a free agent in how long?

Both places are obviously attractive and miami is super attractive because of city as well as organizational structure. The heat are one of the most well run organization in sports, the lakers are one of the jokes of the NBA. there's your difference as to why the heat will get free agents as long as south beach is still there and pat riley still has his imprint on the organization. No one really wants to go to the Lakers because they are a complete mess all over the organization.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:20 PM
It's pretty obvious you don't get cap dynamics. You don't give 47 million to a 34-35 year old guy when your peak at the very best possibility is a 2nd round exit.

IDK what your teams philosophy is, but in Miami Riley goes only for championships. Every move is within the scope that championships are the end goal. We're not giving a contract to a 34 year old who will hamstring our cap situation for the next 3 years at least.

Take some notes from the Lakers giving out lifetime achievement contracts.

It's obvious you are too clueless as to what your organization is doing.. they just took in Tyler Johnson's $5 million per that will jump to 18-19 in a few years. Now they have a whooping $13 million to spend.. good for them. Lost Wade for TJ and another $13 million player who will change the landscape of this franchise. I think you don't understand cap dynamics...

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 05:31 PM
lol "takes a dump on South Beach" yet haven't signed a free agent in how long?

Both places are obviously attractive and miami is super attractive because of city as well as organizational structure. The heat are one of the most well run organization in sports, the lakers are one of the jokes of the NBA. there's your difference as to why the heat will get free agents as long as south beach is still there and pat riley still has his imprint on the organization. No one really wants to go to the Lakers because they are a complete mess all over the organization.

Keep on believing that if it makes you feel better. The Lakers may be down, but they are way more of a premium brand than the heat will ever be. The joke is going to be in south beach this year.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:35 PM
It's obvious you are too clueless as to what your organization is doing.. they just took in Tyler Johnson's $5 million per that will jump to 18-19 in a few years. Now they have a whooping $13 million to spend.. good for them. Lost Wade for TJ and another $13 million player who will change the landscape of this franchise. I think you don't understand cap dynamics...

1) they haven't made a decision on Johnson's contract, he just signed his offer sheet with the Nets.
2) You look like a ****ing moron that you keep thinking my opinion that letting Wade leave being a good thing has to do with this year and this years team. I don't know how many different ways that I can explain that letting him go is obviously not the beneficial thing to do for this years team. I'm done arguing with someone who can't understand simple salary cap math and that not signing a long term contract with a 34 year old has more to do with being better down the line and not specifically this year. How many times and how many different ways can I explain that yes, the Heat will be worse this year without Wade. Ive said that 25 ****ing times genius. They also wouldn't have been all that good with Wade anyway. You know what a little bit better than bad is? Still not great. They weren't winning anything this year and were probably no better than a 4 seed if everything went right. Now that you don't commit yourself to limited salary cap space moving forward AND mediocrity, you can move forward with more room to work over the next few years to make different moves to improve the roster, more so than you could have being a 6 seed with Wade on the team and limiting your available resources.

Take a simple ****ing economics class. Keeping Dwyane Wade to give him a lifetime achievement contract that he is not worth at this point is an exercise in poor team management and futility. It is why the Lakers are where they are today. Can you argue they might have potential and talent on their team now? Yes. But its also been 4 years since this began for them and you still have 0 clue where that team is as far as getting a star to help them make it back to being a contender, and their process of rebuilding was set back years by giving Kobe that contract.

Once the dust settles that contract ends up limiting your franchise tenfold and you're still where you are today, A NON-CONTENDER. By not signing him you get this process of life for the Heat post-Wade started without crippling your franchises future opportunities.

How the **** can you not get that point yet? Honestly tell me what your highest level of education is.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:36 PM
Keep on believing that if it makes you feel better. The Lakers may be down, but they are way more of a premium brand than the heat will ever be. The joke is going to be in south beach this year.
Lol D'Angelo russell and Julius Randle are your brand now buddy. You're the joke of the league with no semblance of quality structure anywhere in your organization.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:38 PM
1) they haven't made a decision on Johnson's contract, he just signed his offer sheet with the Nets.
2) You look like a ****ing moron that you keep thinking my opinion that letting Wade leave being a good thing has to do with this year and this years team. I don't know how many different ways that I can explain that letting him go is obviously not the beneficial thing to do for this years team. I'm done arguing with someone who can't understand simple salary cap math and that not signing a long term contract with a 34 year old has more to do with being better down the line and not specifically this year. How many times and how many different ways can I explain that yes, the Heat will be worse this year without Wade. Ive said that 25 ****ing times genius. They also wouldn't have been all that good with Wade anyway. You know what a little bit better than bad is? Still not great. They weren't winning anything this year and were probably no better than a 4 seed if everything went right. Now that you don't commit yourself to limited salary cap space moving forward AND mediocrity, you can move forward with more room to work over the next few years to make different moves to improve the roster, more so than you could have being a 6 seed with Wade on the team and limiting your available resources.

Take a simple ****ing economics class. Keeping Dwyane Wade to give him a lifetime achievement contract that he is not worth at this point is an exercise in poor team management and futility. It is why the Lakers are where they are today. Can you argue they might have potential and talent on their team now? Yes. But its also been 4 years since this began for them and you still have 0 clue where that team is as far as getting a star to help them make it back to being a contender, and their process of rebuilding was set back years by giving Kobe that contract.

Once the dust settles that contract ends up limiting your franchise tenfold and you're still where you are today, A NON-CONTENDER. By not signing him you get this process of life for the Heat post-Wade started without crippling your franchises future opportunities.

How the **** can you not get that point yet? Honestly tell me what your highest level of education is.

I feel bad for you. You really have no clue.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:42 PM
I feel bad for you. You really have no clue.

lol of course thats your response to that. Because you're flat out wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about. Look up the law of diminishing returns. Thats what the Dwyane Wade contract represents. You can pay D-Wade more than he is worth and maybe be the 5th seed or you can not pay him and be what, the 10th seed, maybe sneak in the playoffs. You have no shot of contending either way right now, you're not hamstrung for years by not being able to spend because of Wade's contract, and you start moving on quicker and have more things you can do because you aren't paying Wade.

That is why you don't understand cap management and how useless it is to pay D-Wade that much and hinder your future potential moves for the sake of maybe being a 5th seed at best this year.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:45 PM
lol of course thats your response to that. Because you're flat out wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about. Look up the law of diminishing returns. Thats what the Dwyane Wade contract represents. You can pay D-Wade more than he is worth and maybe be the 5th seed or you can not pay him and be what, the 10th seed, maybe sneak in the playoffs. You have no shot of contending either way right now, you're not hamstrung for years by not being able to spend because of Wade's contract, and you start moving on quicker and have more things you can do because you aren't paying Wade.

That is why you don't understand cap management and how useless it is to pay D-Wade that much and hinder your future potential moves for the sake of maybe being a 5th seed at best this year.

It's you who don't understand that they are trying to get back TJ when Wade only wanted two years $47 million.. Unless you think the Heat are making big moves in the next two seasons, your argument is extremely inaccurate. They won't be competing for years regardless so why not at least keep it a bit more competitive with Wade? Heat will do worse this season and next season with the way things are going now. Just admit it and stop being ignorant. And it doesn't matter if offer-sheet or not. They are stupid/willing to pay TJ that money... He'll take up $19 million in three seasons. Oh, what a good investment!

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 05:47 PM
Lol D'Angelo russell and Julius Randle are your brand now buddy. You're the joke of the league with no semblance of quality structure anywhere in your organization.

Solid post. LA breeds basketball players that grow up Lakers fans and now even Clippers fans, someone is bound to come back home as opposed to Miami. In the next two years we have LA boys Westbrook, Paul George, and James Harden becoming free agents, lets see who goes where.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 05:51 PM
Solid post. LA breeds basketball players that grow up Lakers fans and now even Clippers fans, someone is bound to come back home as opposed to Miami. In the next two years we have LA boys Westbrook, Paul George, and James Harden becoming free agents, lets see who goes where.

I'd rather go to the Lakers than Miami just because they accept they are rebuilding. Miami has no clear direction or options. They are stuck with Whiteside+Bosh for half the salary cap and after that Wade fallout, some players are going to think twice before they get ambushed with more trickery.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:55 PM
It's you who don't understand that they are trying to get back TJ when Wade only wanted two years $47 million.. Unless you think the Heat are making big moves in the next two seasons, your argument is extremely inaccurate. They won't be competing for years regardless so why not at least keep it a bit more competitive with Wade? Heat will do worse this season and next season with the way things are going now. Just admit it and stop being ignorant. And it doesn't matter if offer-sheet or not. They are stupid/willing to pay TJ that money... He'll take up $19 million in three seasons. Oh, what a good investment!

1) there has literally not been a peep about whether the heat have any intention of matching that contract. The heat have nothing to do with the contract Johnson just signed so i don't know what you're talking about. And if he does get matched it will be because of the huge bargain he will be for the first 2 years of his contract and the potential they hope he can fulfill down the road for years 3 and 4.
2) if they do match it it will be with the intention of paying for the future value of a player, not the past, which you really have a hard time comprehending. If the Heat value him as a potential good player down the road, which is certainly possible, then it would make sense to match the contract because with the cap only getting larger, if he can become a starting caliber player that contract at the end isn't terrible and you get him this year for only 1 million against the cap and 6 million next year, both fairly large bargains.
3) Your last 4 sentences show pretty clearly you don't know what you're talking about nor do you understand how restricted free agency works. The Heat have nothing to do with the contract/offer sheet Johnson signed. He signed it with the Nets and the heat have 3 days to match. Nothing has come out yet about whether the heat intend to sign it or not. So again, you're simply ignorant to salary cap and contract structures in the nba as well as basic economic principles.

4) And again your argument agrees with what I'm saying. You're agreeing with me that they won;t be good next year regardless. IF you're not gonna be good regardless, why are you paying a 34 year old over 20 million a year and really limiting your potential moves in future years to come. Look up the law of diminishing returns for the love of god its not that complicated. You don't pay a guy 25 million a year to not get much better and severely limit your future potential moves. Why is this difficult to comprehend.

Can you please tell me your age.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 05:56 PM
Solid post. LA breeds basketball players that grow up Lakers fans and now even Clippers fans, someone is bound to come back home as opposed to Miami. In the next two years we have LA boys Westbrook, Paul George, and James Harden becoming free agents, lets see who goes where.

Lol what happened with Derozan. Could it be that some players either don't want to play at home or don't want to go to an organization that has no culture and has been in complete shambles for the last 4 years?

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 06:00 PM
1) there has literally not been a peep about whether the heat have any intention of matching that contract. The heat have nothing to do with the contract Johnson just signed so i don't know what you're talking about. And if he does get matched it will be because of the huge bargain he will be for the first 2 years of his contract and the potential they hope he can fulfill down the road for years 3 and 4.
2) if they do match it it will be with the intention of paying for the future value of a player, not the past, which you really have a hard time comprehending. If the Heat value him as a potential good player down the road, which is certainly possible, then it would make sense to match the contract because with the cap only getting larger, if he can become a starting caliber player that contract at the end isn't terrible and you get him this year for only 1 million against the cap and 6 million next year, both fairly large bargains.
3) Your last 4 sentences show pretty clearly you don't know what you're talking about nor do you understand how restricted free agency works. The Heat have nothing to do with the contract/offer sheet Johnson signed. He signed it with the Nets and the heat have 3 days to match. Nothing has come out yet about whether the heat intend to sign it or not. So again, you're simply ignorant to salary cap and contract structures in the nba as well as basic economic principles.

4) And again your argument agrees with what I'm saying. You're agreeing with me that they won;t be good next year regardless. IF you're not gonna be good regardless, why are you paying a 34 year old over 20 million a year and really limiting your potential moves in future years to come. Look up the law of diminishing returns for the love of god its not that complicated. You don't pay a guy 25 million a year to not get much better and severely limit your future potential moves. Why is this difficult to comprehend.

Can you please tell me your age.

Wanna bet they will sign him? They don't have many options now. And I said Wade at least keeps them a bit more competitive. At least they can maybe make some noise, try to get deep into the playoffs, and then convince a free agent to join. Without Wade and limited free agency options, there is not much they can do at this point to make the team better unless they make a miracle trade. There's a difference.. Wade also signed for two years. Miami isn't competing for another two years without Wade.. so again, they are going to be paying crappy players in the remaining free agency for two years regardless. I'm sorry that concept is foreign to you. I'd rather have Wade for two seasons than settle for whatever is left in free agency.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:08 PM
Lol what happened with Derozan. Could it be that some players either don't want to play at home or don't want to go to an organization that has no culture and has been in complete shambles for the last 4 years?

He had a good thing going in Toronto and they are not a bad team. He also said he wants to leave a legacy with the organization and didn't feel like he could come in after Kobe and be judged against what Kobe did here.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:10 PM
Wanna bet they will sign him? They don't have many options now. And I said Wade at least keeps them a bit more competitive. At least they can maybe make some noise, try to get deep into the playoffs, and then convince a free agent to join. Without Wade and limited free agency options, there is not much they can do at this point to make the team better unless they make a miracle trade. There's a difference.. Wade also signed for two years. Miami isn't competing for another two years without Wade.. so again, they are going to be paying crappy players in the remaining free agency for two years regardless. I'm sorry that concept is foreign to you. I'd rather have Wade for two seasons than settle for whatever is left in free agency.

Genius, if they do sign him they won't have those cap hits for another 2 years and they will have him at a huge bargain for the next 2 years. I don't know what they will do and I don't know what I would do. There is a reason its called a poison pill contract. It's a huge bargain if the heat match it for the next 2 years. His cap hit would only be 1 million next year and reasonable the year after so we will maintain salary cap space for next year which is what all this is about. But it's a difficult decision. One that hasn't been made yet and is only for a combined 7 million for the next 2 years COMBINED, so we still have a **** load of cap room next summer.

You say maybe make a run if they keep him, but Wade isn't what he used to be. You can't say that both they might make a run with him and then go on and say we will be absolutely terrible without him. They won't win anything with or without him. We have no room for any depth should we have signed him and we also have an extremely injury prone team with no depth in that case because we don't even know if Bosh can play and Wade misses 15 games a year. If they signed him they are a few bad breaks from being terrible next year with him anyways.

Riley always thinks big and wants to go after free agent stars and next year is the biggest class in a very long time. Thats why he didn't want to give Wade that contract, and if it works out and we sign a star then he did the right thing. If it doesnt work out then oh well, but i'd rather have a GM that thinks big and goes for it rather than settles for 100% mediocrity.

Signing wade with a lifetime achievement contract would have essentially guaranteed mediocrity and delayed the process towards us rebuilding the team back up. Not giving him the money leaves these options and free agent dollars open, and guys want to play for the heat whether you want to admit it or not. I don't care to debate miami vs la.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:11 PM
He had a good thing going in Toronto and they are not a bad team. He also said he wants to leave a legacy with the organization and didn't feel like he could come in after Kobe and be judged against what Kobe did here.

ah of course. its not the dumpster fire that is your franchise on the court and off.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:15 PM
ah of course. its not the dumpster fire that is your franchise on the court and off.

You act like Miami is good or they have some free agents knocking their door down. Lakers are way ahead of Miami in the post Kobe era than the heat are in the post Wade era. Sure the heat made the playoffs last year but nobody looked at that team and said look at them, that is an up and coming team I want to join.

Next year will be the 1st season without Kobe and Wade for the Lakers and Heat, lets see which franchise recovers quicker.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:22 PM
You act like Miami is good or they have some free agents knocking their door down. Lakers are way ahead of Miami in the post Kobe era than the heat are in the post Wade era. Sure the heat made the playoffs last year but nobody looked at that team and said look at them, that is an up and coming team I want to join.

Next year will be the 1st season without Kobe and Wade for the Lakers and Heat, lets see which franchise recovers quicker.

If you are picking just players that are the 2 best among both teams when healthy, the heat have the top 2, maybe 3, a better coach, organization, and overall structure and culture.

Thats also not fair. Kobe retired with the lakers and was terrible the last 3 years so much that they rebuilt the team while he was still on the team, but that wasn't by design. The Lakers weren't trying to be the joke of the league for 3 years while kobe chucks up 30 shots a game on his last legs, genius. You guys can argue maybe you have potential on your team now, but you have no clue if you have anything close to a star on your team, no pick next year, and no organizational culture and this is after giving Kobe that contract and enduring 3 of just the worst years you will ever see. The heat got in the room with KD with absolutely no text or even call from Wade, Bosh with ****ing blood clots, and not enough Cap room to give Durant the max and yet, simply based on organizational structure alone we got a meeting with him and the Lakers couldn't even get in the room and were a joke last year with Aldridge.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:27 PM
And forget the idiotic and pointless debate about "which city is better" that is completely opinion and based solely on what your personal preferences are, would you honestly say that the Lakers are viewed as being anywhere close to the organization Miami is from a culture and structure standpoint, as viewed by the league?

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:30 PM
If you are picking just players that are the 2 best among both teams when healthy, the heat have the top 2, maybe 3, a better coach, organization, and overall structure and culture.

Thats also not fair. Kobe retired with the lakers and was terrible the last 3 years so much that they rebuilt the team while he was still on the team, but that wasn't by design. The Lakers weren't trying to be the joke of the league for 3 years while kobe chucks up 30 shots a game on his last legs, genius. You guys can argue maybe you have potential on your team now, but you have no clue if you have anything close to a star on your team, no pick next year, and no organizational culture and this is after giving Kobe that contract and enduring 3 of just the worst years you will ever see. The heat got in the room with KD with absolutely no text or even call from Wade, Bosh with ****ing blood clots, and not enough Cap room to give Durant the max and yet, simply based on organizational structure alone we got a meeting with him and the Lakers couldn't even get in the room and were a joke last year with Aldridge.

What did the Heat accomplish getting in a room with KD? nothing. You can talk all you want, it still gets worse for Miami. Do they let Bosh back or try and force him to retire? Not a good look with the players union involved. Miami had the big 3 and now has **** on each member of that big 3.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:32 PM
And forget the idiotic and pointless debate about "which city is better" that is completely opinion and based solely on what your personal preferences are, would you honestly say that the Lakers are viewed as being anywhere close to the organization Miami is from a culture and structure standpoint, as viewed by the league?

What culture does the heat have? The culture just walked out the door. You talking Pat? The guy that has shown he gives 0 ****s about the players, even if they are stars and helped the team win rings?

Dade County
07-07-2016, 06:32 PM
Next year will be the 1st season without Kobe and Wade for the Lakers and Heat, lets see which franchise recovers quicker.

I like this... I was thinking about this too a little. I believe Pat can plan & set things up better then the Lakers front office. I can see us fighting over the same free agents along with Boston; but i dont think you factor in that Miami is in the East & your young team has to deal with the West & your state tax.

So of couse i feel that Miami will win out over the Lakers but we have a full year to find out.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:35 PM
What did the Heat accomplish getting in a room with KD? nothing. You can talk all you want, it still gets worse for Miami. Do they let Bosh back or try and force him to retire? Not a good look with the players union involved. Miami had the big 3 and now has **** on each member of that big 3.
you don't get the point. obviously they didn't get durant, they didn't really have a shot. we didn't have the correct set up because chris bosh's medical situation has the entire team up in the air because we don;t know if he can play and he's being paid over 25 million. And despite all of that, and no text or call or any participation at all from any players, and we still got a meeting simply because players and agents respect the team as an organization and they are trusted as a smart front office. The lakers are not. that is the point. No they didn't get durant but they got into the room because people view them in a way they do not view the lakers front office because that team is a joke.

You guys had plenty of room, 2 top 3 picks in the last 2 years and another top 10, huge cap room ,and you guys still COULDNT EVEN GET A MEETING

and the heat didn't **** on any of them. lebrun left and deliberately misled the organization when he left. the heat wouldn't let bosh play because they didn't want him dying on the court and its extremely dangerous to play within 6 months of taking blood thinners and all their doctors were saying not to play him. And we didn't want to overpay wade. you can consider it ******** on him, whatever, but most people around the league understand why the heat didn't want to pay him that much.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 06:37 PM
What did the Heat accomplish getting in a room with KD? nothing. You can talk all you want, it still gets worse for Miami. Do they let Bosh back or try and force him to retire? Not a good look with the players union involved. Miami had the big 3 and now has **** on each member of that big 3.

Miami most likely will not let him play. So his money coms off the books in feb. But the thing is, they can just blame it on the doctors that wont clear him.

& i believe things will get better for Miami, quicker then most teams. I can see them tanking on one hand or fighting for a playoff spot; but thats up to Pat.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:39 PM
What culture does the heat have? The culture just walked out the door. You talking Pat? The guy that has shown he gives 0 ****s about the players, even if they are stars and helped the team win rings?

if you can't understand that the heats culture is extremely valued and different than the rest of the league than theres really no reason to even be having this conversation.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:40 PM
you don't get the point. obviously they didn't get durant, they didn't really have a shot. we didn't have the correct set up because chris bosh's medical situation has the entire team up in the air because we don;t know if he can play and he's being paid over 25 million. And despite all of that, and no text or call or any participation at all from any players, and we still got a meeting simply because players and agents respect the team as an organization and they are trusted as a smart front office. The lakers are not. that is the point. No they didn't get durant but they got into the room because people view them in a way they do not view the lakers front office because that team is a joke.

You guys had plenty of room, 2 top 3 picks in the last 2 years and another top 10, huge cap room ,and you guys still COULDNT EVEN GET A MEETING

That meeting was out of respect to Wade. KD wasn't going to a 17 win team. Lakers had meetings with Melo and LMA because of respect to Kobe. The Lakers youngsters have to show something for them to get a meeting, but they should this year and they can also trade 2 of them to get another All Star or dump them with a contract to open enough enough salary for Westbrook and another Max. They have room for 1 max next year. If they don't trade Randle and Clarkson for someone, they can easily send them out to another team with Lou and Nick young to create about another max slot while keeping Russell and Ingram.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 06:42 PM
if you can't understand that the heats culture is extremely valued and different than the rest of the league than theres really no reason to even be having this conversation.

It's not though. Outside of drafting Wade and Wade getting LBJ and Bosh to come the biggest FA Pat got on his own was Juan Howard. lol

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:44 PM
That meeting was out of respect to Wade. KD wasn't going to a 17 win team. Lakers had meetings with Melo and LMA because of respect to Kobe. The Lakers youngsters have to show something for them to get a meeting, but they should this year and they can also trade 2 of them to get another All Star or dump them with a contract to open enough enough salary for Westbrook and another Max. They have room for 1 max next year. If they don't trade Randle and Clarkson for someone, they can easily send them out to another team with Lou and Nick young to create about another max slot while keeping Russell and Ingram.

1) KD and Wade aren't friends. Wade didn't call or text him and didn't care about that meeting, he wanted to be taken care of first and this was out there before the meeting with the heat.
2) the lakers famously made fools out of themselves with Aldridge.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 06:45 PM
That meeting was out of respect to Wade. KD wasn't going to a 17 win team. Lakers had meetings with Melo and LMA because of respect to Kobe. The Lakers youngsters have to show something for them to get a meeting, but they should this year and they can also trade 2 of them to get another All Star or dump them with a contract to open enough enough salary for Westbrook and another Max. They have room for 1 max next year. If they don't trade Randle and Clarkson for someone, they can easily send them out to another team with Lou and Nick young to create about another max slot while keeping Russell and Ingram.

KD meeting with Miami had nothing to do with Wade. Wade never even talk to KD. That was all Pat.

mia1619
07-07-2016, 06:50 PM
It's not though. Outside of drafting Wade and Wade getting LBJ and Bosh to come the biggest FA Pat got on his own was Juan Howard. lol

Pat set us up with a 4 year plan after winning in 2006 with a plan to strip down the roster for the biggest free agent class ever. that a pretty big thing to say "outside of". He also got ray allen, shane battier, haslem (3 different times) Shaq (shaq had to approve of where he was being traded to) and many others to take less.

For you to continue arguing that there is any competition between the way the lakers and heat organizational structure and culture is viewed is one of the more ridiculous arguments i've seen. This is taken pretty much as fact around the league.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 07:32 PM
Pat set us up with a 4 year plan after winning in 2006 with a plan to strip down the roster for the biggest free agent class ever. that a pretty big thing to say "outside of". He also got ray allen, shane battier, haslem (3 different times) Shaq (shaq had to approve of where he was being traded to) and many others to take less.

For you to continue arguing that there is any competition between the way the lakers and heat organizational structure and culture is viewed is one of the more ridiculous arguments i've seen. This is taken pretty much as fact around the league.

Lol. Fact around the league. If you have a good team and money players will come, especially if you are in LA or Miami. The Lakers have a more attractive situation going forward right now just based on the young players they have, the roster flexibility they have to add another piece while keeping Ingram and Russell and the type of coach they have.

Sly Guy
07-07-2016, 08:47 PM
No , most heat fans understand this is the right move for the rebuild

I'm not a heat fan, but that would be my take too. I wouldn't want to invest that kind of $$$ in wade at his age, no matter how loyal, how decent a player he still is. It's too much of a risk. It's rebuilding time for them, and they haven't killed themselves like the nets in doing so. Their franchise is still in decent shape.

Scoots
07-07-2016, 08:58 PM
Pat is still the man ... the city, the beaches, the clubs, the women, and that cheating tax situation will always help.

CHANGO
07-07-2016, 09:24 PM
Just saying the Heat fans in attendance at arenas are laughable when they are nationally televised games airing. How entertaining can Goran Dragic and Justice Winslow be... lol...

That's what happens when you don't have a team and follow around every other player like a lost puppy. Just go ahead and follow Kevin Dur... OH NVM. Lebron James and the others.

I'll be happy following my team and enjoying Dragic, J-Rich, Winslow and Whiteside.

Wade n Fade
07-07-2016, 09:28 PM
Miami sure isn't LA. Nobody took that tax free money since Lebron and the boys teamed up. South Beach is great, but the LA market, the City of LA and Orange County takes a dump on Miami.

Let's see? Joe Johnson did. Luol Deng did. Hassan Whiteside did. You have Compton, which is far worse than any Miami neighborhood. Mozgov was your big signing after talking about Aldridge, Melo, Derozan, etc. If it wasn't for the high draft picks, the Lakers would have zero reasons to look forward to the future.

Gibby23
07-07-2016, 09:38 PM
Let's see? Joe Johnson did. Luol Deng did. Hassan Whiteside did. You have Compton, which is far worse than any Miami neighborhood. Mozgov was your big signing after talking about Aldridge, Melo, Derozan, etc. If it wasn't for the high draft picks, the Lakers would have zero reasons to look forward to the future.

Compton... lol. Have you been to LA and seen the layout. You know how spread out everything is? Did you just watch Straight out of Compton or something?

Also, that is some hard hitting analysis on the if it wasn't for the high draft picks that the Lakers would have zero reason to look forward to the future. You think? Don't you think that is why I mentioned the high picks and said that is the reason LA is ahead of Miami in becoming a better team able to attract a FA.

THE MTL
07-07-2016, 10:04 PM
I think Pat Riley is a savage for doing what he did with Wade. Morally, it was wrong. Wade deserved the money. He's been the franchise best player ever. Took less money for the last few years and won championships by sacrificing everything for the Heat. If Dirk got 2yrs/40mil then Wade should get more than that.

However from a basketball standpoint; Pat Riley is right. Wade is injury prone. He's going to be 35yrs old two months into the 2017 season. He's aging is rapidly progressing due to his playing style. He didn't want to give him a Kobe deal that ended up strapping the Lakers. And what's he really going to do for Chicago?? Lets be serious

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 10:11 PM
That's what happens when you don't have a team and follow around every other player like a lost puppy. Just go ahead and follow Kevin Dur... OH NVM. Lebron James and the others.

I'll be happy following my team and enjoying Dragic, J-Rich, Winslow and Whiteside.

I'd rather watch Nick Young than those four.. at least I get to watch him do something stupid and laugh.

FlashBolt
07-07-2016, 10:13 PM
Let's see? Joe Johnson did. Luol Deng did. Hassan Whiteside did. You have Compton, which is far worse than any Miami neighborhood. Mozgov was your big signing after talking about Aldridge, Melo, Derozan, etc. If it wasn't for the high draft picks, the Lakers would have zero reasons to look forward to the future.

Homestead Florida is more dangerous than Compton per crime statistics.

Dade County
07-07-2016, 10:20 PM
Homestead Florida is more dangerous than Compton per crime statistics.


:laugh2:

What is going on.

Just stop it already. Leave HEAT fans alone. Enjoy your team, or whoever player you follow.

europagnpilgrim
07-07-2016, 10:47 PM
No Heat fan in their right mind would hate Riley. Riley literally put the franchise together from coaching to his president tenure. Zo, Hardaway, Grant, Shaq, Eddie Jones, Wade, Bosh, LeBron, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem, Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson are among the names to grace the Heat's uniform. Without him, there is no Big 3, 2006 title, etc. People need to appreciate his legacy and give him trust. Sam Presti even lost KD. Not much either can do there because KD wanted an easier ring. Wade wanted more $, which the Heat cannot create just like that nor should they rightfully go out of their way to handicap the franchise for about $14 mill more over the next two years.

Like I was explaining to Dade County or whatever username that was, 14 million over next two yrs from a group of owners worth 500B and backed back Trillionaires that you will never see or hear mention of is literally crumbs to those owners

wow

if you are worth that type of generated literal paper money how can that handicap you? the Clipps owner is worth a staggering 20-25B alone on his own, do you think he would be handicapped by 14mill? like really, just use some very basic common money sense and that right there is why I call owners for the most part, nitpickers at the highest order

we have to be more educated than that

Wade wanted more money and the Billionaire owner should have dropped that 14mill like it was hot cakes, this is pure non sense and madness talking about owner worth around 7-8B worried about a measly 14mill

I heard that Nets owner dropped 10mill on a weekend vacation so 14mill has to be nothing at all but peanuts

BKLYNpigeon
07-08-2016, 01:37 AM
Pat Riley was a fuking Idiot trading away 2 1st round picks for Goran Tragic.

shep33
07-08-2016, 01:44 AM
Ugh, feel for you heat fans. Should be nice to see Winslow develop. But man.. that Bosh deal looks bad. Dragic is meh. Rebuild is here

DboneG
07-08-2016, 08:20 AM
Micky Arison and Pat Riley already knew what they were going to do....that was not retain D-Wade and go a different direction. If anybody think that Pat Riley had a chance of signing Kevin Durant, you had your head up your....

The plan was to get talks with Durant. If he signs with the Heat....GREAT!!! They already knew he wasn't going to sign. So, step two was to low-ball Wade and leave him hanging to the point that he leave on his own. IT WORKED!!!

Erik Spoelstra thinks he's a real coach...and that he can coach the current roster into the playoffs. With Goran Dragic, Justise Winslow, Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson as his main pieces to make it in. He thought that D-Wade will stunt these guys growth. Spo got his wish. Save money and look to the future.

mia1619
07-08-2016, 09:18 AM
Forget what Dwyane Wade wanted and felt he deserved, Pat Riley did not approach contract discussions with Wade this offseason the way one should approach “family.” Or the greatest player in franchise history. The Heat lifer. Riley’s first reported offer of $10 million was flat out insulting — that’s the kind of money Matthew Dellavedova just got. Eventually, Miami upped its offer to $20 million a year, but that was less money and one less year than Wade wanted. Wade wanted to be made whole for past sacrifices, he wanted to see the respect of the organization that way, and he had lost faith the Heat would be good for it. Through it all, Riley reportedly never even picked up the phone to talk to Wade directly.

Wade found the respect — and money — he was looking for in Chicago. He signed there.

Pat Riley and Heat management were clearly okay with that outcome.

In the cold, harsh world of the NBA on the court they were right — Miami is both the better team next season, and they are better positioned for the future. With or without Wade.

With no Wade — or Luol Deng, or Joe Johnson — Miami probably takes a step back, but not a huge one (unless Chris Bosh is out). Next season the Heat still will have newly re-signed Hassan Whiteside in the paint. They will have Goran Dragic running the point — and he will have the ball in his hands more, a good thing (particularly in the fourth quarter, when Wade would often start to dominate the rock). They hope to have an All-Star in Chris Bosh back (although that remains up in the air). They have good young players like Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson, and Tyler Johnson (if they match the Nets offer). They have a roster that fits the up-tempo style Erik Spoelstra wants to play. While they will miss Wade’s scoring at times, if Bosh is healthy they are certainly a playoff team and potentially a top-four seed in the East.

More importantly, they have is the kind of base of talent — and lifestyle, and no state tax — that will have free agents considering them as an option next summer (how much money they will have depends on Johnson, Bosh, who else they sign). There is a style of play, a system. What Pat Riley has given Miami is a blueprint and flexibility. One that didn’t necessarily fit Wade as he aged.

What is the Bulls’ plan?

Here is GM Gar Forman’s quote after the Derrick Rose trade: “We need to get younger and more athletic.” Are Rajon Rondo and a 35-year-old Wade who has had chronic knee issues younger and more athletic? Robin Lopez isn’t part of that answer.

The bigger question is how all these players fit together. Wade, Rondo, and Jimmy Butler all work best with the ball in their hands — and all three are ball stoppers. They like isolation sets (or a pick-and-roll) where they are in control of the shot and the tempo of the offense. Butler is okay working off the ball, but Wade and Rondo are not. Plus there is no shooting — Jimmy Butler is the best shooter of the three and he hit just 31.2 percent from three last season. Robin Lopez isn’t spacing the floor. Chicago’s best outside shooter is Fred Hoiberg, and he’ll be wearing a suit. The Bulls may have to start Nikola Mirotic just to have someone who can keep defenses from completely packing the paint (Doug McDermott may get extra run for the same reason).

Then there are the defensive issues — Rondo and Wade struggle on that end, and while Lopez can defend the rim some he’s not the NBA’s most mobile big out there. The Bulls can be forced into bad defensive matchups every time down, and their transition defense will be horrific.

Chicago does have something it can sell. Wade is a star, people will pay to see him. He will bring some excitement to the United Center. If he can stay healthy and play 74 games as he did last season — and that is far from a sure thing — he can help Chicago win a few games. He will make the Bulls more entertaining.

But how is this team getting younger and transitioning to the future? Is this really Butler’s team now? Miami will have a lot of cap space next summer, but players (and their agents) and have questions about why they should come to this roster. What is the long-term plan they are signing up for? Nothing is evident.

The Bulls will make the playoffs in the East, but as a lower seed that gets bounced in the first round. They have the cap space to chase free agents next summer, but will the talent come?

If a top free agent is choosing a destination and the money is equal, they will see plan and a brighter future in Miami. The Heat are better positioned to get a star, even if Wade stays and recruits.

The bottom line is the Bulls may be a little more dramatic and entertaining after this move, but this Heat team is simply better. And will be for years to come.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/08/chicago-landed-name-in-dwyane-wade-miami-still-better-team-now-poised-for-future/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

There's this. And also go listen to Zach Lowe's Lowe Post podcast posted yesterday/this morning with Howard Beck and in the beginning they talk about miami and the lakers and he says people will still want to go to miami because free agents are more attracted to cap space than they are the lakers young pieces that no one knows are good or not.

Literally the exact conversation we were having yesterday.

Stunner
07-08-2016, 10:23 AM
considering i've had season tickets every year since shaq's first year here, you are literally just making things up. Every arena has late showing fans and every single arena in the league is empty at the start of most 3rd quarters.

Not us Bulls :))))

SteBO
07-08-2016, 11:01 AM
I don't despise anyone for what's happened....I'm just sad about what's happened. It's a case where a clear argument can be made on both sides. So, I'm gonna root for Wade in Chicago and still rep my team. Taking sides seems pointless and stupid.

mia1619
07-08-2016, 11:05 AM
Not us Bulls :))))

yes the bulls. literally every team in the league has a lot fewer fans at the beginning of every 3rd quarter.

Stunner
07-08-2016, 11:12 AM
yes the bulls. literally every team in the league has a lot fewer fans at the beginning of every 3rd quarter.

Like I said not us Bulls don't debate me , I've know what happens in my city . The start of Chicago games in the first quarts never look as abandoned in Miami . Number 1 team in attendance since 2010 , 09 & 08 we were number 2 then number 1 in 07 . Basically we been top 3 for a long time

mia1619
07-08-2016, 11:21 AM
Like I said not us Bulls don't debate me , I've know what happens in my city . The start of Chicago games in the first quarts never look as abandoned in Miami . Number 1 team in attendance since 2010 , 09 & 08 we were number 2 then number 1 in 07 . Basically we been top 3 for a long time

ya, congrats dude, that doesn't make your fans immune from getting back to their seats right at the beginning of the 3rd quarter

mia1619
07-08-2016, 11:23 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzAcIW8Zsgs

just one example but it wa the only video i watched. go to 4:28 and look at the crowd at the beginning of the 3rd. every arena is like this.

mia1619
07-08-2016, 11:37 AM
lol, also in that video, on the night they were supposedly honoring the bulls championship teams, you can see empty seats all over the place near the court in the beginning of the game.

Stunner
07-08-2016, 11:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzAcIW8Zsgs

just one example but it wa the only video i watched. go to 4:28 and look at the crowd at the beginning of the 3rd. every arena is like this.

We'll see I'm talking about the start of the game not coming from the 3rd quarter which is after halftime were people go to the bathroom and go get food . Common sense tells you that it would take longer for anybody . But yea Bulls arena first two quarters fill up more than Miami's

Scoots
07-08-2016, 11:52 AM
Pat Riley was a fuking Idiot trading away 2 1st round picks for Goran Tragic.

The worst part of the deal is that they should have know what Dragic did well and what he didn't do well and either changed to maximize his talents or not trade for him. I think the former is the worse sin.

mia1619
07-08-2016, 12:09 PM
lol ok dude. you're really debate who's arena is more filled with 8 minutes left in the first quarter of a game in december? Who gives a ****?

BKLYNpigeon
07-08-2016, 12:21 PM
The worst part of the deal is that they should have know what Dragic did well and what he didn't do well and either changed to maximize his talents or not trade for him. I think the former is the worse sin.

Thats whats Riley gets for being stubborn and didn't do the full rebuild after Lebron left. If he wasn't lucky to find Whiteside in the D League. it would just be Dragic and a few role players. lol

ewing
07-09-2016, 08:10 AM
Thats whats Riley gets for being stubborn and didn't do the full rebuild after Lebron left. If he wasn't lucky to find Whiteside in the D League. it would just be Dragic and a few role players. lol


the guy was super lucky with his all NBA PF getting blood clots every year too.

ewing
07-09-2016, 08:11 AM
you guys are tools. Riley has been a fantastic coach, GM, and President. no one makes zero mistakes in these positions

ewing
07-09-2016, 08:16 AM
Micky Arison and Pat Riley already knew what they were going to do....that was not retain D-Wade and go a different direction. If anybody think that Pat Riley had a chance of signing Kevin Durant, you had your head up your....

The plan was to get talks with Durant. If he signs with the Heat....GREAT!!! They already knew he wasn't going to sign. So, step two was to low-ball Wade and leave him hanging to the point that he leave on his own. IT WORKED!!!

Erik Spoelstra thinks he's a real coach...and that he can coach the current roster into the playoffs. With Goran Dragic, Justise Winslow, Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson as his main pieces to make it in. He thought that D-Wade will stunt these guys growth. Spo got his wish. Save money and look to the future.


I like Winslow, Richardson, and Whiteside. Shame you are going to lose TJ. The Heat have some nice young pieces. Justice is a question mark to me though. Seems with guys like him you never know if they develop into great role players or all stars.

D-Leethal
07-09-2016, 10:00 AM
Pat the Rat. The Rat won this one. I'll enjoy it.

J_M_B
07-09-2016, 10:42 AM
Hell no. You can never go against the Godfather! As much as I hate seeing Wade leave (I would have tried to get as close to the 2yrs/50M he wanted), I understand that a rebuild was inevitable. Signing Wade locks us in as a 4/5 seed again with no real way to compete for a championship.

Miami owes two future 1st to PHX (2018-top 7 protected & 2021) so it can't be a full rebuild, which Riley has never done anyways in his 21 seasons, but it time to take advantage of next year's supposedly deep draft, allow your young core to continue to grow and maintain flexibility to draw a top tier FA.

CardinalRed24
07-09-2016, 02:46 PM
You gotta be sh** ing me. Miami fans should be kissing his *** and polishing his damn shoes for what he has done for this team... U must be crazy to think badly of him in any kind of way if you're a Heat fan. Dude could have easily retired many many yes ago. And in that case, there's a real good chance you guys never win a title in the last decade.

And as far as Wade goes, he absolutely made the right call. Its really not even debatable. Wade shouldn't be asking them for that much. He's not worth that kind of $$ esp at his age andwith a fairly high probability his knees do not hold up for too much longer

HeatFan
07-10-2016, 10:26 AM
anybody that has followed the Heat for a while since Riley has been there knows that Riley ALWAYS makes good moves to make the team a competitor. Starting with Hardaway/Mourning then Eddie Jones/Brian Grant/Lamar Odom (who at the time were all-star caliber) to drafting Wade (which was like winning a lottery) to adding Shaq, the. the Big Three, then pick ups like Dragic/Whiteside. My point is, some of these moves didn't net us a championship but made us a top team in the east. I love Wade and think he should have gotten paid. But I don't doubt Riley ultimately makes the team better. Mourning left and came back (he is the second most important Heat ever). Now he sits next to Pat in most games. Does that sound to you like he is an A--hole?

BKLYNpigeon
07-10-2016, 10:59 AM
If Pat Riley traded the justice Winslow pick last year to the Celtics for 4 1st round picks.

He would have had the 3rd pick this year.

mia1619
07-10-2016, 06:59 PM
If Pat Riley traded the justice Winslow pick last year to the Celtics for 4 1st round picks.

He would have had the 3rd pick this year.

i'd rather have justice winslow.

prodigy
07-12-2016, 04:56 AM
Its funny to me how much Credit Pat riley got over the past 6-7 years. The big three went to Miami to play with each other and do it in a party city and a team with cap space lol. It had nothing to do with Riley, the fans or anything like that. Pat was just there... holding on tight as the big 3 won 2 titles.

We know what he told Lebron after Bron won him 2 rings and wanted to go back home. Now the wade disrespect. its safe to say pat is a D-bag and lets see how the D-bag does when nobody wants to play there now.

Slug3
07-12-2016, 09:47 AM
Micky Arison and Pat Riley already knew what they were going to do....that was not retain D-Wade and go a different direction. If anybody think that Pat Riley had a chance of signing Kevin Durant, you had your head up your....

The plan was to get talks with Durant. If he signs with the Heat....GREAT!!! They already knew he wasn't going to sign. So, step two was to low-ball Wade and leave him hanging to the point that he leave on his own. IT WORKED!!!

Erik Spoelstra thinks he's a real coach...and that he can coach the current roster into the playoffs. With Goran Dragic, Justise Winslow, Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson as his main pieces to make it in. He thought that D-Wade will stunt these guys growth. Spo got his wish. Save money and look to the future.

I don't think they wanted to go away from Wade, I just think they thought that they could go and try and put a team together and no matter what Wade would be there for them after they were trying to pick up another girl. Well Wade didn't stay after all and it becomes a big mess. I am sure Pat most likely didn't initially reach out to Wade or didn't say much assuming Wade would be there when they were done trying to get a team ready. Wade took offense to that as well and decided to leave. It probably all could havoc been avoided with communication I am sure.

Slug3
07-12-2016, 09:48 AM
Its funny to me how much Credit Pat riley got over the past 6-7 years. The big three went to Miami to play with each other and do it in a party city and a team with cap space lol. It had nothing to do with Riley, the fans or anything like that. Pat was just there... holding on tight as the big 3 won 2 titles.

We know what he told Lebron after Bron won him 2 rings and wanted to go back home. Now the wade disrespect. its safe to say pat is a D-bag and lets see how the D-bag does when nobody wants to play there now.

Well Riley had to make the cap situation work for the few years leading up to that for them to even get a chance to sign in Miami.

hugepatsfan
07-12-2016, 09:52 AM
Well Riley had to make the cap situation work for the few years leading up to that for them to even get a chance to sign in Miami.

He just didn't sign players. If anyone wanted too many years he passed. You give him some credit for being patient and having the vision but let's not pretend it took any real shrewd moves to make it work. It took sitting on his hands and doing nothing.

Riley's been an awesome GM but the citing the summer of 2010 doesn't do him justice. That team wasn't put together on his GM skills.

J_M_B
07-12-2016, 11:32 AM
He just didn't sign players. If anyone wanted too many years he passed. You give him some credit for being patient and having the vision but let's not pretend it took any real shrewd moves to make it work. It took sitting on his hands and doing nothing.

Riley's been an awesome GM but the citing the summer of 2010 doesn't do him justice. That team wasn't put together on his GM skills.

You have to give him credit (Spo as well) with the pieces they put around LeBron though. They knew you had to surround him with shooters (something Cleveland didn't figure out in his 1st tenure). They chased Battier and Allen when the world criticized them for not addressing the holes at PG and center, as well as convince Bosh to extend his range to the 3pt line.

naps
07-12-2016, 03:25 PM
Absolutely NOT. I love Wade and he is my favorite player of all time but this is Pat Riley's team and no one can change that, not even the best player in the league. He has his vision, stubbornness, and strict set of rules that he has applied for nearly 50 years in this business. If a player can't follow Riley's reign, he can go somewhere else.

IKnowHoops
07-12-2016, 03:40 PM
I think Pat hurt the franchise with this move. Its been a running theme for the last couple years (post Bron) that Wade took less to help the team, and that he was to e taken care of later. And I'm not talking about the Lebron Years, but I am talking about the last two. And Im not for paying people for what they did, but in Wades case where he could of gotten more, but specifically took less to help the team and at the request of the team. Now all of a sudden people are saying he did this on his own. He took less money on his own to help the team. BS. Ive never heard one person say he took less on his own before all this went down.

If someone can show me a post that says Wade did this on his own and the team does not plan on taking care of him please show me, if you can't, I'm not believing this BS spin now.

Anyway that being said, to basically lie/deceive your MVP of the franchise's existence, its not gonna attract free agents. Time will tell, but I am predicting that the Heat are going to have some tough years ahead of them when it comes to getting top free agents after this move. Also the blatant disrespect by Riley to not reach out to Wade speaks volumes.

Again I repeat, I am not for paying people on what they did years ago. Unless you tell that player, "Hey help us out now, and we will take care of you later". Now its a hole new ball game and I believe Pat went back on assurances that he gave Wade and for that, he is gonna pay for, for at least the next few years of free agents.

If they did Wade dirty, they will do anyone dirty. That is a sentiment that I think will be in the minds of many players when deciding where to play comes up.

mia1619
07-12-2016, 04:35 PM
I think Pat hurt the franchise with this move. Its been a running theme for the last couple years (post Bron) that Wade took less to help the team, and that he was to e taken care of later. And I'm not talking about the Lebron Years, but I am talking about the last two. And Im not for paying people for what they did, but in Wades case where he could of gotten more, but specifically took less to help the team and at the request of the team. Now all of a sudden people are saying he did this on his own. He took less money on his own to help the team. BS. Ive never heard one person say he took less on his own before all this went down.

If someone can show me a post that says Wade did this on his own and the team does not plan on taking care of him please show me, if you can't, I'm not believing this BS spin now.

Anyway that being said, to basically lie/deceive your MVP of the franchise's existence, its not gonna attract free agents. Time will tell, but I am predicting that the Heat are going to have some tough years ahead of them when it comes to getting top free agents after this move. Also the blatant disrespect by Riley to not reach out to Wade speaks volumes.

Again I repeat, I am not for paying people on what they did years ago. Unless you tell that player, "Hey help us out now, and we will take care of you later". Now its a hole new ball game and I believe Pat went back on assurances that he gave Wade and for that, he is gonna pay for, for at least the next few years of free agents.

If they did Wade dirty, they will do anyone dirty. That is a sentiment that I think will be in the minds of many players when deciding where to play comes up.

When Wade opted out of his contract 2 years ago, he did that on his own accord with the thought that Lebron was coming back and he was taking less money to do so. Lebron did him dirty, not the heat.

there was never any i'll pay you back promise. He took less for Haslem at his own choice in 2010 and again opted out and got shafted 2 years ago. Thats his fault.

This wasn't about money anyway. He has pretty much said that if you read all the things that are out there. The Heat didnt fight for him to come back and that was what made the situation the worst, not the money. The heat were ready to move on and werent leaning strongly either way toward bringing wade back. They were indifferent and that is what made Dwyane upset.

rex.reyesiii
07-12-2016, 11:33 PM
Despise but still with great Respect.. like Kobe I guess.

Clint Olbrock
07-17-2016, 11:50 PM
I guess we can finally put to rest the "allure" of Pat Riley, big ol' flop this off season.

-He missed out on KD.
-He tried to call Wade's bluff and Wade signed with the Bulls; I predicted Wade would leave last summer, I was just 1 year too early.
-He lost Deng and JJ; I said before FA opened that these guys have been ALL about money their entire careers and that rang true.
-He matched a terrible contract for TJ because TJ refused to negotiate with them once the Nets offer was on the table.
-He's been awkwardly silent about Bosh's situation.

The one bright spot is they retained Whiteside but he isn't really a corner stone more of a complimentary piece so giving him the max doesn't make much sense but if they didn't he would've walked.

IKnowHoops
07-18-2016, 12:28 AM
When Wade opted out of his contract 2 years ago, he did that on his own accord with the thought that Lebron was coming back and he was taking less money to do so. Lebron did him dirty, not the heat.

there was never any i'll pay you back promise. He took less for Haslem at his own choice in 2010 and again opted out and got shafted 2 years ago. Thats his fault.

This wasn't about money anyway. He has pretty much said that if you read all the things that are out there. The Heat didnt fight for him to come back and that was what made the situation the worst, not the money. The heat were ready to move on and werent leaning strongly either way toward bringing wade back. They were indifferent and that is what made Dwyane upset.

I don't believe this.

Do you have a link confirming anything you just said about why Wade took less money? If not where are you getting this from? Your own assumptions?

SportsFanatic10
07-18-2016, 01:33 AM
I guess we can finally put to rest the "allure" of Pat Riley, big ol' flop this off season.

-He missed out on KD.
-He tried to call Wade's bluff and Wade signed with the Bulls; I predicted Wade would leave last summer, I was just 1 year too early.
-He lost Deng and JJ; I said before FA opened that these guys have been ALL about money their entire careers and that rang true.
-He matched a terrible contract for TJ because TJ refused to negotiate with them once the Nets offer was on the table.
-He's been awkwardly silent about Bosh's situation.

The one bright spot is they retained Whiteside but he isn't really a corner stone more of a complimentary piece so giving him the max doesn't make much sense but if they didn't he would've walked.

I mean sure you did...if you ignore the fact that you predicted he'd leave for the Cavs at the min last year. Lol that's not really close enough to be worthy of patting yourself on the back for. But I actually do agree with you for once, Riley really **** the bed this offseason...

Dade County
07-18-2016, 02:19 AM
I don't believe this.

Do you have a link confirming anything you just said about why Wade took less money? If not where are you getting this from? Your own assumptions?

That part is true... Lbj owes him that money not Miami.

FlashBolt
07-18-2016, 01:27 PM
The only reason you can possibly blame Pat is because he tried lowballing Wade. After they lost out on KD, Pat should have paid Wade whatever he had wanted and let the dude get his money. Wade makes the same from Chciago as he does in Miami. It's pretty clear the disrespect he felt from Miami was the primary reason he left.

However, this "Wade sacrificed" is getting old. Wade sacrificed money for rings, fame, publicity, brand, and the opportunity to play with his friends. Wade could make more money but let's be honest, he wouldn't have three rings and he certainly wouldn't have been the same player. These are sacrifices Wade chose to make. He could have made max and lose the 1st/2nd round in the playoffs every season. That's reality.

WaDe03
07-18-2016, 06:58 PM
Regardless Wade sacraficed 30M in any way you look at it. That's facts, doesn't matter what happened because of his sacrafices. Wade could've demanded that Riley traded a guy or 2 so he would get his money or he could've walked to the Bulls with LeBron in 2010. Riley is a pure idiot for the way he handled this summer and last. Apparently Wade wanted 3/45 last summer and Riley wouldn't give it to him. That's a ****ing steal.

Clint Olbrock
07-18-2016, 07:15 PM
I mean sure you did...if you ignore the fact that you predicted he'd leave for the Cavs at the min last year. Lol that's not really close enough to be worthy of patting yourself on the back for. But I actually do agree with you for once, Riley really **** the bed this offseason...

I actually never said the minimum, I said the tax paying MLE which is still not much but more than the vet min.

My last line was spot on(http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?886938-Roster-Speculation-Thread-XVII/page71) "But even if you don't buy him going to the Cavs, there are teams out there willing to pay him what he is asking without pause."

That was trip down memory lane looking for that too, all the Heat fans being so rude to me bc the Cavs had no titles and LBJ, TT and Love were going to walk in FA :D

Even just this summer I said "The Heat owner is as cheap as can be and has been for quite a few seasons.

Heat are gonna be hard pressed to retain all 5 of Wade, Deng, Whiteside, JJ and Tyler Johnson. Unless Deng and JJ play for discounts, which is possible but with both of their personalities and histories in the NBA, seems highly unlikely. With how much controversy was stirred up I don't see how Wade doesn't ask for another raise, he made the most last season in a single season that he ever has but you think he is going to be okay with being the 3rd highest paid player on the team behind Whiteside and Bosh? Doubtful, highly doubtful.

Tyler may not get any offers but if he signs a hefty offer sheet then it will come down to is the owner too cheap to match it?

Whiteside has made it pretty clear, give him the max or he will go somewhere else to get the max, right now is not the time to count dollars and pinch pennies if you're the Heat owner... Be a tight wad and force losing a good chunk of your core."(http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?911306-2016-NBA-Free-Agency-Predictions)

Pat and the Heat messed up, no way around it.

IKnowHoops
07-18-2016, 11:37 PM
That part is true... Lbj owes him that money not Miami.

I know that was the going theme back in the day, but I never believed it. It never made any sense. Him and Bron were tight throughout the process. And there was no need for Wade to do that. He easily could of just waited. I think he did it whether Bron was coming back or not to make sure Miami could compete. I think even if he knew Bron was leaving, he does it.

IKnowHoops
07-18-2016, 11:51 PM
That part is true... Lbj owes him that money not Miami.

I know that was the going theme back in the day, but I never believed it. It never made any sense. Him and Bron were tight throughout the process. And there was no need for Wade to do that. He easily could of just waited. I think he did it whether Bron was coming back or not to make sure Miami could compete. I think even if he knew Bron was leaving, he does it.

Vee-Rex
07-19-2016, 12:01 AM
That was trip down memory lane looking for that too, all the Heat fans being so rude to me bc the Cavs had no titles and LBJ, TT and Love were going to walk in FA :D


Pat and the Heat messed up, no way around it.

Can't say that I'll ever care if that franchise becomes relevant again anytime soon, and only because a lot of those fans are so full of themselves. Possibly the worst fanbase in the NBA, but that's another topic altogether.

Anyhow, I think it's clear Pat messed up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/07/16/pat-riley-blames-himself-for-dwyane-wade-leaving-the-miami-heat-for-the-chicago-bulls/

Heat fans (and only Heat fans) will call that a PR move, but you don't want the face of your franchise to leave the organization like that on bad terms. Pat screwed up, simply put.

SteBO
07-19-2016, 07:05 AM
^Miami gave up the rest of their cap space for him, so I'm not sure what more you're looking for: 2-years, $41 million.

With Pat, of course it's a PR move....you think these guys all of a sudden became incompetent in money management, after Andy Elisburg got under the luxury tax and still manages to field a #3 seed, a game away from the ECF despite injuries to important players?

You guys love to eat up whatever the media throws at you. These people are giving you partial truths. Miami was ready to move on. Wade wasn't, but he's a prideful dude and he deserved his $$$, so he went to Chicago. **** happens. Both sides were in the right, whether you want to accept it or not.

Clint Olbrock
07-20-2016, 08:03 PM
Can't say that I'll ever care if that franchise becomes relevant again anytime soon, and only because a lot of those fans are so full of themselves. Possibly the worst fanbase in the NBA, but that's another topic altogether.

Anyhow, I think it's clear Pat messed up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/07/16/pat-riley-blames-himself-for-dwyane-wade-leaving-the-miami-heat-for-the-chicago-bulls/

Heat fans (and only Heat fans) will call that a PR move, but you don't want the face of your franchise to leave the organization like that on bad terms. Pat screwed up, simply put.
100% agree man.

HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 08:13 PM
A good GM dose what's best for the Franchise. Pat fits the mold.

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HOLD_THIS_L
07-20-2016, 08:14 PM
Jordan left the bulls, Melo the Nuggets and many more.

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rex.reyesiii
07-20-2016, 10:57 PM
^ Kobe, Duncan, Dirk never left? Your point being?

HOLD_THIS_L
07-21-2016, 01:19 AM
Point being you can't crucify this move. It was the best for the Franchise.

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rex.reyesiii
07-21-2016, 01:21 AM
Point being you can't crucify this move. It was the best for the Franchise.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

I'm in the "this move affects the "image" of the Franchise for future FAs" group though.

Slug3
07-21-2016, 10:48 AM
Point being you can't crucify this move. It was the best for the Franchise.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

Well honestly if Miami doesnt get anyone big next offseason and they have another offseason like this one with one year deals, then yeah this move of not resigning Wade was pretty much for nothing.

Big Zo
07-21-2016, 11:15 AM
I'm in the "this move affects the "image" of the Franchise for future FAs" group though.

Alonzo Mourning left to the Nets, Shaq demanded a trade, and left on bad terms, and the organization survived.

HOLD_THIS_L
07-21-2016, 12:29 PM
People get caught in the moment. Mistaking facts for feelings.

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J_M_B
07-21-2016, 01:02 PM
Can't say that I'll ever care if that franchise becomes relevant again anytime soon, and only because a lot of those fans are so full of themselves. Possibly the worst fanbase in the NBA, but that's another topic altogether.

Anyhow, I think it's clear Pat messed up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/07/16/pat-riley-blames-himself-for-dwyane-wade-leaving-the-miami-heat-for-the-chicago-bulls/

Heat fans (and only Heat fans) will call that a PR move, but you don't want the face of your franchise to leave the organization like that on bad terms. Pat screwed up, simply put.

:laugh2: worst fanbase

GTFO with that **** .. this city has proven itself and it became especially clear after LeBron left. This is a loyal fanbase, fact.

Your feelings towards this city are understandable, but shouldn't be taken serious. There's still a lot of Cleveland fans that are bitter that LeBron came here in the first place, but those feelings should be directed at the decision makers inside the Cavs organization. They failed to surround LeBron with a winner, which ultimately led to his departure.

You guys finally got that title. Be happy and move on. Most of Miami sure did.

Big Zo
07-21-2016, 02:05 PM
:laugh2: worst fanbase

GTFO with that **** .. this city has proven itself and it became especially clear after LeBron left. This is a loyal fanbase, fact.

Your feelings towards this city are understandable, but shouldn't be taken serious. There's still a lot of Cleveland fans that are bitter that LeBron came here in the first place, but those feelings should be directed at the decision makers inside the Cavs organization. They failed to surround LeBron with a winner, which ultimately led to his departure.

You guys finally got that title. Be happy and move on. Most of Miami sure did.

Cavs fans live in Middle Earth, and have been the butt of everyone's jokes their whole life. Let them gloat just this once.

Slug3
07-21-2016, 05:28 PM
Alonzo Mourning left to the Nets, Shaq demanded a trade, and left on bad terms, and the organization survived.

Man just think what we have been through Zo and his kidneys and now Bosh and his clots.

Vee-Rex
07-21-2016, 05:59 PM
:laugh2: worst fanbase

GTFO with that **** .. this city has proven itself and it became especially clear after LeBron left. This is a loyal fanbase, fact.

Your feelings towards this city are understandable, but shouldn't be taken serious. There's still a lot of Cleveland fans that are bitter that LeBron came here in the first place, but those feelings should be directed at the decision makers inside the Cavs organization. They failed to surround LeBron with a winner, which ultimately led to his departure.

You guys finally got that title. Be happy and move on. Most of Miami sure did.

I think if put to a vote, most people would vote Miami as having the worst fan-base. The accusations of having the most disloyalty and most obnoxious trolling isn't exactly a new thing here. :shrug:

I think the organization is fine. Pat Riley is a good but overrated GM, obviously benefiting from his legendary coaching history. From what I can see, at least in Cleveland, Cavs fans have no problem with the Heat, just the insufferable fan-base.

Vee-Rex
07-21-2016, 06:15 PM
Cavs fans live in Middle Earth, and have been the butt of everyone's jokes their whole life. Let them gloat just this once.

Yet, we're still die-hard fans, despite all the losing.

Miami population in 2006: 412,000

Heat fans that attended the 2006 parade (1st Heat title): 250,000

Cleveland population in 2016: 390,000

Cavs fans that attended the 2016 parade: 1.3 million, with 500,000 more blocked off from downtown because it was practically full.

The Cleveland Browns have one of the largest fan-bases, with Browns backers bars all over the country.

So we'll be the butt of your jokes, but we're still better fans.

:laugh2:

rex.reyesiii
07-21-2016, 10:08 PM
Alonzo Mourning left to the Nets, Shaq demanded a trade, and left on bad terms, and the organization survived.

I'm also in the Wade has (maybe)surpassed Dan Marino as the face of Florida/Miami sports etc


People get caught in the moment. Mistaking facts for feelings.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

People interpreting Facts, or historical facts is all we can do.

Lets just see what happens to both Lakers and MIA.
That could take long though. :P

FlashBolt
07-22-2016, 01:03 AM
Vee-Rex, you are arguing with a guy who endorses ISIS chopping off the heads of people who disagreed with him on PSD. Just don't bother. He's clearly not going to be sensible of anything you say.

Big Zo
07-22-2016, 07:51 AM
Vee-Rex, you are arguing with a guy who endorses ISIS chopping off the heads of people who disagreed with him on PSD. Just don't bother. He's clearly not going to be sensible of anything you say.
Time for some new material, bro. I don't even remember what it is you keep whinning about.

Big Zo
07-22-2016, 07:55 AM
Yet, we're still die-hard fans, despite all the losing.

Miami population in 2006: 412,000

Heat fans that attended the 2006 parade (1st Heat title): 250,000

Cleveland population in 2016: 390,000

Cavs fans that attended the 2016 parade: 1.3 million, with 500,000 more blocked off from downtown because it was practically full.

The Cleveland Browns have one of the largest fan-bases, with Browns backers bars all over the country.

So we'll be the butt of your jokes, but we're still better fans.

:laugh2:
That's cuz people in Cleveland have no jobs, and no lives. Congrats on being good fanboys, though.

SteBO
07-22-2016, 10:44 AM
That's cuz people in Cleveland have no jobs, and no lives. Congrats on being good fanboys, though.
You're not helping yourself.....the notion of a fanbase calling another fanbase insufferable is a joke in of itself, but to say that CLE residents have no jobs and no lives is pandering to a portion of "insufferable" fans.

Miami has a loyal and passionate fanbase. Not a matter of opinion.

J_M_B
07-22-2016, 12:51 PM
I think if put to a vote, most people would vote Miami as having the worst fan-base. The accusations of having the most disloyalty and most obnoxious trolling isn't exactly a new thing here. :shrug:

I think the organization is fine. Pat Riley is a good but overrated GM, obviously benefiting from his legendary coaching history. From what I can see, at least in Cleveland, Cavs fans have no problem with the Heat, just the insufferable fan-base.

The outside opinion holds no weight. If you actually live in South Florida, you would know this. Miami has had some of the best local TV ratings for years now (5th this season), LeBron left yet the team continues to sell out (second longest streak behind the Mavs).. You can't go anywhere down here without running into people wearing Heat gear now. The last 5 years or so has been an explosion of new fans and interest. I doubt most locals will object that this is a basketball town now, the Dolphins took a backseat.

mia1619
07-22-2016, 01:45 PM
good lord there is no more pointless exercise than to argue who the better fans are

SteBO
07-22-2016, 02:01 PM
good lord there is no more pointless exercise than to argue who the better fans are
I think pointless is doing the argument a disservice. It's an idiotic exercise.

mia1619
07-22-2016, 02:11 PM
I think pointless is doing the argument a disservice. It's an idiotic exercise.

lol exactly. it is taking a hugely nuanced thing and boiling it down to black and white. a complete waste of your time and patience.

J_M_B
07-22-2016, 04:57 PM
good lord there is no more pointless exercise than to argue who the better fans are


I think pointless is doing the argument a disservice. It's an idiotic exercise.

Cleveland has a great fanbase, one of the best in the country.

I'm just tired of the tropes that "Miami has no fans" and we're all just sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas

Vee-Rex
07-25-2016, 12:31 PM
Cleveland has a great fanbase, one of the best in the country.

I'm just tired of the tropes that "Miami has no fans" and we're all just sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas

There's a lot of tropes we're all tired of. Trust me, as a Cleveland sports fan I've had to endure it all. The genesis of this "rivalry" between Cavs/Heat fans started as:

1. LeBron leaves Cleveland to join Miami
2. Cavs fans are pissed and heavily criticize/attack LeBron
3. Heat fans relentlessly clown and troll Cavs fans

So, regardless of whether or not individual Heat fans wish to move on from it, Cavs fans will probably always hold a dislike towards them. If the Heat were top of the conference right now those fans would be just as insufferable as before. Hell, it kinda came out during last season when the Heat destroyed the fully-healthy Cavs in the regular season.

Personally, I don't think about Heat fans at all during my daily life, but if I run across some thing obnoxious online then I'll express myself.

Thems the breaks. Big Zo specifically can't help but express his love towards my Cavs fandom. :laugh2: