PDA

View Full Version : Championship? or Build For Future?



Rivera
06-24-2016, 09:47 PM
I'm surprised no one made a thread about Tracy's McGradys comments on the Jump yesterday.

Tracy McGrady admitted after the 1997 season Jerry Kraus wanted to trade Scottie Pippen for a rookie T-Mac. He went into detail about a second workout and private meetings. John Salley today confirmed the idea of Jerry Kraus having secret meetings with players calling it common.

The Bulls went on to win the 1998 title the 2nd of there 3-peat. Jordan later retired and it took the Bulls a long time to bounce back.

Which poses the question.

Would you sacrifice winning a championship for one year knowing how bad your franchise was for a length of time.

Or

would you rather make a bold move like pippen for a high school rookie TMac to ensure your franchises success in the future?

tp13baby
06-24-2016, 10:02 PM
I'm surprised no one made a thread about Tracy's McGradys comments on the Jump yesterday.

Tracy McGrady admitted after the 1997 season Jerry Kraus wanted to trade Scottie Pippen for a rookie T-Mac. He went into detail about a second workout and private meetings. John Salley today confirmed the idea of Jerry Kraus having secret meetings with players calling it common.

The Bulls went on to win the 1998 title the 2nd of there 3-peat. Jordan later retired and it took the Bulls a long time to bounce back.

Which poses the question.

Would you sacrifice winning a championship for one year knowing how bad your franchise was for a length of time.

Or

would you rather make a bold move like pippen for a high school rookie TMac to ensure your franchises success in the future?

Sacrificing being the best for a young guy that you have no clue will succeed in the league? I think most would take the ship.

FOXHOUND
06-24-2016, 10:05 PM
Take the championship, every time. Thanks to hindsight, we know that they would have never won anything with McGrady. They were terrible for years and in a position to draft top talent, they just did it poorly. Even when they made mistakes they got bailed out, like the Knicks trading two unprotected 1sts for Eddy Curry that turned into LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah. Now, they traded Aldridge on draft day for Tyrus Thomas but like I said, they did it poorly.

JasonJohnHorn
06-24-2016, 11:08 PM
I think the reason nobody made a comment is because it's an old story. This is something that has been mentioned before.


Obviously, though, you win the championship. McGrady wasn't even a lock to be a great player, and it took him several seasons to break. When you have a top-five all-time SF in the prime of his career, with a championship defense on the line, you go for the glory. Had they made that move, the Bulls likely wouldn't have won, and McGrady would have been stuck trying to carry and Bulls roster that was in lottery mode for 3-5 seasons. I mean, if he bolted for Orlando while playing for a playoff team, I doubt he would have stuck around Chicago for a lottery team.

But there is a big difference between keeping a CHAMPION together, and making a run for a championship wit an unproven roster. Take the Nets for example. They brought in Garnett and Pierce and mortgaged their future. That was a bad move. They had no way of knowing that that roster would compete. The went all in on a gamble. The Bulls stayed the course with a proven champion.

I look at the Pistons in 04. Were giving up Darko the only way to get Sheed, I would have been ok with that.


Each situation is different though.

LOb0
06-24-2016, 11:58 PM
You sacrifice essentially everything it takes to win a title. You worry about the future later.

Miltstar
06-24-2016, 11:59 PM
I look at the Pistons in 04. Were giving up Darko the only way to get Sheed, I would have been ok with that.

Of course you'd be ok with that lol Darko was complete trash... it would be a different story if it was D-Wade or Melo

More-Than-Most
06-25-2016, 12:24 AM
championship

Chronz
06-25-2016, 12:27 AM
Yeah, an old story that I figured most had heard but that was when MJ threatened to retire or was that the other time when they wanted Shawn Kemp.

Also, has anyone heard or seen from ghettosean? Getting worried for the guy

europagnpilgrim
06-25-2016, 02:08 AM
You do both

TMac was getting compared to Magic coming out of HS but with a jumpshot, he would not have the defense of Pippen but if Krause knew he wasn't going to bring back the entire unit after 98' run then he should have pulled the trade with or without Jordan veto since he stated GM's win titles not players

that could have setup a run at the other young superstar type free agents to be in the fold' like a KG and possibly Duncan later who already had Orlando plans until the last second and changed his mind and stayed in SA

I would have done it especially seeing Pippen could barely play in that crucial 98' Finals with a back problem, which was worse than Iggy's this past Finals, it wasn't a back problem in 97' I get it but the age/miles factor would have made me do it

Tmac just rotted on the bench in Toronto, not because of lack of game or impact, just a stupid org./coaching move, it was the reason Sixers tried to pair him up with The Answer in a trade for L Hughes that never came about

TMac was mvp caliber and you trade the dynamic young stud for the aging stud in any sport, he would have probably added a few more years for Jordan similar to what Barkley did for DrJ(who admitted Barkley did just that)

you can compete for the ship now and build for future, just look at the Pistons run from 02-07' when they could have done the same but thought Prince was more valuable/better than a Melo or even Wade they could have had with second pick in draft but were already loaded for title contention, they wiffed that big time

Bulls could have possibly had a Jordan/TMac/KG type of new big 3 since KG was from/played in the Chi area and it would have been easy to convince him to team up with a aging legend and a young stud to keep the Bulls competing at high contending level

but they went with the veterans and then end up being **** for so long due to not doing it both in the same line

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-25-2016, 02:14 AM
Youre not going to win it all for sure but you have to give your team a chance. The Thunder made that decision by not trading KD. They know they might lose him but they tried to ride it out because they knew they had a chance.

naps
06-25-2016, 02:59 AM
Ofcourse the championship. No question. Jerry Krause was a genius talent evaluator but boy did he destroy that dynasty! The demise of that Bulls team will always be a wonder in basketball history.

Quinnsanity
06-25-2016, 03:04 AM
Ofcourse the championship. No question. Jerry Krause was a genius talent evaluator but boy did he destroy that dynasty! The demise of that Bulls team will always be a wonder in basketball history.

This seems to be the conventional wisdom, but I always ask, what could Krause have done differently? He won them the last six titles they had full Jordan seasons for. Scottie wanted out, he was going to leave in the 1998 offseason regardless. Sure Michael could've come back and they could've brought back Steve Kerr and the rest of the free agents and maybe had a $100 million payroll but without Scottie they would've lost to the Spurs anyway. Sure there were some questionable moves within the rebuild itself (most notably trading Elton Brand), but Krause did everything right during the dynasty years and it lasted as long as it possibly could've. He even specifically told Scottie Pippen not to sign the contract that eventually became such a point of acrimony between him and the team.

Quinnsanity
06-25-2016, 03:05 AM
Of course you'd be ok with that lol Darko was complete trash... it would be a different story if it was D-Wade or Melo

At the time it really wouldn't have been. And can we stop throwing D-Wade into the conversation with Melo when it comes to that Detroit pick? Wade was not close to Melo as a prospect. People were surprised when Wade went FIFTH. It was supposed to be Kaman. Nobody would've even considered Wade at 5. I'm fairly certain Riley is on record somewhere saying he wanted Bosh with that pick anyway.

McAllen Tx
06-25-2016, 06:05 AM
Championship...

You go for the ship. For the most part teams only have a championship window for 3-5 years, when you got that window you go for the ship cause you don't really know next time you will have that window.

You think Presti isn't regretting trading Harden right now cause he was worried about the future. Most likely costed OKC a ship.

He needs to resign KD or get something great for him or he's out of a job.

eDush
06-25-2016, 09:03 AM
You always take the ship, always! MJ would have been very upset had that trade went down!

JordansBulls
06-25-2016, 10:18 PM
I'm surprised no one made a thread about Tracy's McGradys comments on the Jump yesterday.

Tracy McGrady admitted after the 1997 season Jerry Kraus wanted to trade Scottie Pippen for a rookie T-Mac. He went into detail about a second workout and private meetings. John Salley today confirmed the idea of Jerry Kraus having secret meetings with players calling it common.

The Bulls went on to win the 1998 title the 2nd of there 3-peat. Jordan later retired and it took the Bulls a long time to bounce back.

Which poses the question.

Would you sacrifice winning a championship for one year knowing how bad your franchise was for a length of time.

Or

would you rather make a bold move like pippen for a high school rookie TMac to ensure your franchises success in the future?



i think there was an option for the 3rd and 6th picks for Pippen as well. We would have gotten Van Horn and Mcgrady.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-06-25/sports/9706250067_1_bulls-scottie-pippen-antoine-walker



The Bulls late Tuesday were considering trading Scottie Pippen to the Boston Celtics for the No. 3 and No. 6 picks in Wednesday's NBA draft.

The Bulls reportedly would use the picks to select from among Utah forward Keith Van Horn, Kentucky guard/forward Ron Mercer and guard/forward Tracy McGrady, the latest high school player to bypass college for the NBA.


With Van Horn and Tmac that year we still would have won. Pippen was hurt half the season anyway and was hurt in the playoffs as well, so not like he was fully healthy anyway.


But either case I would still take the title. Even with an all time great it is hard to get one title for a franchise (just look at Lebron with Cleveland or Kareem with Milwaukee) and Shaq with Orlando

The main issue though is that guys didn't want to go to Chicago because of how management treated there stars and coach, which is why the Bulls have struggled since then.

king4day
06-26-2016, 04:52 PM
If keeping the team together would mean a ring, then I'd sacrifice the future.
It's a tough call in this situation. Chicago knew they were good, and would be good, for a while longer. You have to take advantage of Jordan while he's there.

Similar to the Cavs with Love/Wiggins. I don't agree with the move, but if it means vying for a title immediately, you have to do it while the window is open.

Hawkeye15
06-27-2016, 04:47 PM
i think there was an option for the 3rd and 6th picks for Pippen as well. We would have gotten Van Horn and Mcgrady.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-06-25/sports/9706250067_1_bulls-scottie-pippen-antoine-walker



With Van Horn and Tmac that year we still would have won. Pippen was hurt half the season anyway and was hurt in the playoffs as well, so not like he was fully healthy anyway.


But either case I would still take the title. Even with an all time great it is hard to get one title for a franchise (just look at Lebron with Cleveland or Kareem with Milwaukee) and Shaq with Orlando

The main issue though is that guys didn't want to go to Chicago because of how management treated there stars and coach, which is why the Bulls have struggled since then.

yep

mrblisterdundee
06-29-2016, 11:47 AM
When you have a proven core that has already won multiple championships, of course you stick with them.

JasonJohnHorn
06-29-2016, 07:34 PM
This seems to be the conventional wisdom, but I always ask, what could Krause have done differently? He won them the last six titles they had full Jordan seasons for. Scottie wanted out, he was going to leave in the 1998 offseason regardless. Sure Michael could've come back and they could've brought back Steve Kerr and the rest of the free agents and maybe had a $100 million payroll but without Scottie they would've lost to the Spurs anyway. Sure there were some questionable moves within the rebuild itself (most notably trading Elton Brand), but Krause did everything right during the dynasty years and it lasted as long as it possibly could've. He even specifically told Scottie Pippen not to sign the contract that eventually became such a point of acrimony between him and the team.

Krause was an idiot. He hated that Phil Jackson got so much credit. He said that he didn't care if P-Jax went 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the playoffs: he wasn't going to be the coach the next year.

Could you EVER imagine the Spurs saying that to Pop?

Had Jackson been given the contract extension, Jordan and Rodman would have stayed, and with Pippen still under contract, they'd still have another run.

Would they have still struggled to rebuild? Of course. But they could have brought free agents in. The way they treated Jackson and their players soiled that team to free agents and top tier coaches for a decade.

You keep a great coach like that on board, and when you vets retire, there is a base, a foundation to build on. You respect your players, then free agents know that your a good destination team.

Krause shot himself in the foot.

JasonJohnHorn
06-29-2016, 07:37 PM
Of course you'd be ok with that lol Darko was complete trash... it would be a different story if it was D-Wade or Melo

Well... those aren't the players they had. Not even sure what the point of this comment is. And even though Darko was having a rough rookie year, most were hopeful that he would develop into a strong player. Detroit was still getting offers for him into his second year.

FlashBolt
06-29-2016, 07:38 PM
MJ wanted Pippen and he retired after due to Phil's contract and their inability to resign Pips. They also won a ring. A rookie T-Mac wouldn't have won that ring and MJ would have retired. So they would have had five rings, an upset Jordan who would probably retire or join another team to shame the Bulls, and T-Mac in the Bulls by himself isn't going to do a damn thing for them.

FlashBolt
06-29-2016, 07:43 PM
i think there was an option for the 3rd and 6th picks for Pippen as well. We would have gotten Van Horn and Mcgrady.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-06-25/sports/9706250067_1_bulls-scottie-pippen-antoine-walker



With Van Horn and Tmac that year we still would have won. Pippen was hurt half the season anyway and was hurt in the playoffs as well, so not like he was fully healthy anyway.


But either case I would still take the title. Even with an all time great it is hard to get one title for a franchise (just look at Lebron with Cleveland or Kareem with Milwaukee) and Shaq with Orlando

The main issue though is that guys didn't want to go to Chicago because of how management treated there stars and coach, which is why the Bulls have struggled since then.

Very doubtful. T-Mac was still an undeveloped rookie. Even though Pips was injured, he was still a better player who understood how to play with Jordan. He had some really good games for the Bulls from what I remember. They were close games too so it's not like Pip was a complete no-show. It would have worked out better for the Bulls in the long run considering they wouldn't have had what? 8-9 years of irrelevancy? But short run, I don't think they would have won that title.

hugepatsfan
06-29-2016, 08:07 PM
You always build towards a championship. It's just that sometimes you have to acknowledge that going backwards actually speeds up your timeline to winning a championship.

Avenged
06-30-2016, 08:46 PM
championship 100/100 times. Come on man!