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Lionel20
06-22-2016, 12:16 AM
Stating the Obvious: In order for someone to be overrated they absorb a certain amount of hype to begin with. I've now posted a couple of threads related to Kerr and the Warriors because of all the hype generated by sports journalist around him. smh

In Steve Kerr's case, article after article that I've read, praises Steve Kerr, an inexperienced coach prior to his hiring a couple years ago, for his incredible "system" that took the Golden State Warriors to heights his predecessor Mark Jackson "hypothetically" could never.

1.) Kerr, largely curiosity of Gentry (the six-year D'Antoni disciple, later four-year head coach of the Suns), emphasized ball movement offensively. Kerr and Gentry certainly achieved this goal, in 2014-15 the Warriors led the NBA is lowest avg. second per touch according to Sports VU @ 2.41. If I remember, Jackson's 2013-14 Warriors were near the bottom in this category. But the problem is, Kerr's staple on offense ie ball movement doesn't correlate high with wins. The 76ers were the best ball movement team in the NBA in 2013-14, they won only 19 games. The OKC Thunder have been one of the worse ball movement teams, and won 55+ 2 of the last 3 seasons.

2.) Kerr and the Warriors won the CHIP in 2015, following a 67 win season. The Warriors defeated the Pelicans, Grizzlies, Rockets, and Cavs. The Warriors path to the title was aided by key injuries to opponents namely the Grizzlies and Cavs - the two teams that gave them the most trouble. The Warriors also by no fault of their own, avoided the two other top teams in the NBA according to BB-ref SRS: the Clippers & Spurs....

3.) The Clippers & Spurs, the two teams that defeated Mark Jackson's Warriors in 2013, L to the Spurs in 6, 2014 L to Clippers in 7. Under Kerr, the Warriors were able to avoid true contenders in the postseason until 2016: the results Game 7 W vs. Thunder, Game 7 L to the Cavs. In both series the Warriors were decisive favorites.

4.) The Regular Season. Kerr misses the first 43 games of the 2015-16 Season. He wins coach of year with 64 1st place votes.

5.) The Regular Season. With Gentry gone, lead Assistant Coach Luke Walton, w no prior head coaching experience, coaches the Warriors to a 39-4 record. Kerr finishes out the season 34-5.

6.) The GSW have proven to be a better regular season team under Kerr than Jackson. Why? One, major reason is Draymond Green. NBA guru's give Kerr credit for starting Green over two-time All-Star David Lee in the 2014-15 season. But Lee was injured for the first 25 games of the 2014-15 season, the Warriors were flowing with a 22-3 record with Draymond @ the 4. I think it's fairly clear that Draymond won the spot.

7.) The Splash Brothers as a duo, were improving each year they were in the starting lineup under Jackson. There's no sign of them suddenly hitting a ceiling if Jackson were to have reached an extension into 2014-15 season and beyond. NBA stars typically don't peak until early 30s, and if there's anyone that can be apportioned the most credit with the development of the two record-breaking GSW gaurds, it's certainly Jackson. The Splash Brothers improvement, and the addition of Draymond, who Jackson would've been forced to play just as Kerr due Lee's injury, would've have helped the Warriors easily surpass their 51 win total under Jackson's final year in 2014-15 regardless of Kerr.

8.) Despite the fact that Draymond was still developing in Jackson's final year starting only 12 games, the GSW were still a better defensive team under Jackson/Hunter than Kerr/Gentry. Draymond is a much better defender than Lee, and tt's a wonder how much better the Warriors would've been defensively if Lee were inactive under Jackson.

9.) Larry Riley, the former Warriors GM that hired Jackson, arguably made the two biggest moves in Warriors history: Drafted Steph Curry in 2009, and traded high volume shooter Monte Ellis in the middle of the 2011-12 Season (Many people mistaking credit this trade to Bob Meyers). The Monte Ellis trade cleared the way for the Splash Brothers, especially Klay Thompson. It's Riley, demoted by owner Joe Lacob (2010 - ), that led the way for one of the most efficient offenses in NBA history.

10.) Lacob hired Bob Meyers shortly after he tookover as majority owner. Meyers served as Assistant GM to Riley for a year, until assuming the GM position. It's Meyers, unsure of Jackson's level of input, that drafted Harrison Barnes, but more importantly Draymond Green. Meyers also signed Steph Curry for around 10 mill/year far less than he would prove to be worth. But this helped enabled GSW to bring in Iguodala the following year, the eventual Finals MVP and All-Star.


Kerr does deserve credit for benching Iggy... well, maybe, when all else is not working, which is rare, he tends to insert Iguodala into the starting lineup, and the Warriors actually look like a better team. I'm really not sure if that decision has had as much impact as the following guys have had in contributing to the Warriors success:

Here's my order of individuals responsible for the Warriors success:

1. Steph Curry
2. Klay Thompson
3. Larry Riley
4. Draymond Green
5. Mark Jackson
6. Bob Meyers
7. Andre Iguodala
8. Steve Kerr
9. Alvin Gentry
10. Luke Walton

eDush
06-22-2016, 12:30 AM
Stating the Obvious: In order for someone to be overrated they absorb a certain amount of hype to begin with. I've now posted a couple of threads related to Kerr and the Warriors because of all the hype generated by sports journalist around him. smh

In Steve Kerr's case, article after article that I've read, praises Steve Kerr, an inexperienced coach prior to his hiring a couple years ago, for his incredible "system" that took the Golden State Warriors to heights his predecessor Mark Jackson "hypothetically" could never.

1.) Kerr, largely curiosity of Gentry (the six-year D'Antoni disciple, later four-year head coach of the Suns), emphasized ball movement offensively. Kerr and Gentry certainly achieved this goal, in 2014-15 the Warriors led the NBA is lowest avg. second per touch according to Sports VU @ 2.41. If I remember, Jackson's 2013-14 Warriors were near the bottom in this category. But the problem is, Kerr's staple on offense ie ball movement doesn't correlate high with wins. The 76ers were the best ball movement team in the NBA in 2013-14, they won only 19 games. The OKC Thunder have been one of the worse ball movement teams, and won 55+ 2 of the last 3 seasons.

2.) Kerr and the Warriors won the CHIP in 2015, following a 67 win season. The Warriors defeated the Pelicans, Grizzlies, Rockets, and Cavs. The Warriors path to the title was aided by key injuries to opponents namely the Grizzlies and Cavs - the two teams that gave them the most trouble. The Warriors also by no fault of their own, avoided the two other top teams in the NBA according to BB-ref SRS: the Clippers & Spurs....

3.) The Clippers & Spurs, the two teams that defeated Mark Jackson's Warriors in 2013, L to the Spurs in 6, 2014 L to Clippers in 7. Under Kerr, the Warriors were able to avoid true contenders in the postseason until 2016: the results Game 7 W vs. Thunder, Game 7 L to the Cavs. In both series the Warriors were decisive favorites.

4.) The Regular Season. Kerr misses the first 43 games of the 2015-16 Season. He wins coach of year with 64 1st place votes.

5.) The Regular Season. With Gentry gone, lead Assistant Coach Luke Walton, w no prior head coaching experience, coaches the Warriors to a 39-4 record. Kerr finishes out the season 34-5.

6.) The GSW have proven to be a better regular season team under Kerr than Jackson. Why? One, major reason is Draymond Green. NBA guru's give Kerr credit for starting Green over two-time All-Star David Lee in the 2014-15 season. But Lee was injured for the first 25 games of the 2014-15 season, the Warriors were flowing with a 22-3 record with Draymond @ the 4. I think it's fairly clear that Draymond won the spot.

7.) The Splash Brothers as a duo, were improving each year they were in the starting lineup under Jackson. There's no sign of them suddenly hitting a ceiling if Jackson were to have reached an extension into 2014-15 season and beyond. NBA stars typically don't peak until early 30s, and if there's anyone that can be apportioned the most credit with the development of the two record-breaking GSW gaurds, it's certainly Jackson. The Splash Brothers improvement, and the addition of Draymond, who Jackson would've been forced to play just as Kerr due Lee's injury, would've have helped the Warriors easily surpass their 51 win total under Jackson's final year in 2014-15 regardless of Kerr.

8.) Despite the fact that Draymond was still developing in Jackson's final year starting only 12 games, the GSW were still a better defensive team under Jackson/Hunter than Kerr/Gentry. Draymond is a much better defender than Lee, and tt's a wonder how much better the Warriors would've been defensively if Lee were inactive under Jackson.

9.) Larry Riley, the former Warriors GM that hired Jackson, arguably made the two biggest moves in Warriors history: Drafted Steph Curry in 2009, and traded high volume shooter Monte Ellis in the middle of the 2011-12 Season (Many people mistaking credit this trade to Bob Meyers). The Monte Ellis trade cleared the way for the Splash Brothers, especially Klay Thompson. It's Riley, demoted by owner Joe Lacob (2010 - ), that led the way for one of the most efficient offenses in NBA history.

10.) Lacob hired Bob Meyers shortly after he tookover as majority owner. Meyers served as Assistant GM to Riley for a year, until assuming the GM position. It's Meyers, unsure of Jackson's level of input, that drafted Harrison Barnes, but more importantly Draymond Green. Meyers also signed Steph Curry for around 10 mill/year far less than he would prove to be worth. But this helped enabled GSW to bring in Iguodala the following year, the eventual Finals MVP and All-Star.


Kerr does deserve credit for benching Iggy... well, maybe, when all else is not working, which is rare, he tends to insert Iguodala into the starting lineup, and the Warriors actually look like a better team. I'm really not sure if that decision has had as much impact as the following guys have had in contributing to the Warriors success:

Here's my order of individuals responsible for the Warriors success:

1. Steph Curry
2. Klay Thompson
3. Larry Riley
4. Draymond Green
5. Mark Jackson
6. Bob Meyers
7. Andre Iguodala
8. Steve Kerr
9. Alvin Gentry
10. Luke Walton

Hate much? Kerr as the coach is a very important piece to the success of the Warriors that only true loyal Dubs fans has recognize. As a new fan, you might not understand by just looking at the numbers and using situational circumstances to make ends meet. Sometimes things happen for the wrong reasons but when the end justify the means for all the right reasons, you just know :nod:. Now I love Jackson as much as anyone but he didn't run this offense efficiently by playing hero ball. We won games by being very talented with all due respect but Kerr has took this team to another level with his teaching from experience that has literally made us until real contenders and one of the best teams in the modern era that we as fans cannot and should not deny. It's a special close knit brotherhood this team has become that respect one another. Curry had said it best in stating that they protect each other like family, not just lip service by saying the right thing - they mean it! It's a special bond by special players from the entire roster along with the coaching staff and the front office.

As Warriors, the team stands united and remain strong!!!

I so :love: this team!!!

:dance:

Redrum187
06-22-2016, 12:47 AM
Hate much? Kerr is a very important piece to the success of the Warriors that only true loyal Dubs fans recognize. You as an outsider will never understand by just looking at the numbers and nothing else. This is close knit brotherhood unlike most teams. Curry said it best that they protect each other like family, not just lip service by saying the right thing. They do the right things and that's what makes this team so special :nod:.

As Warriors, the team stands united and strong!!!!!

I so :love: this team!!!

I'd live with my team hating each other if it meant they win championships though.

likemystylez
06-22-2016, 12:50 AM
troll thread, and talk about kicking a guy when hes down, good lord.

eDush
06-22-2016, 01:19 AM
I'd live with my team hating each other if it meant they win championships though.

So you can live with teammates like Kobe/Shaq or Howard/Harden as long as they can win?

Actually that was sorta like our 'We Believe' team that plays on hate and finger pointing but NOT this current group my friend. I have come to see how special this team has become which started with the hiring of Jackson as coach which Kerr has allow them to grow even better by installing a very affective system so they can become champions! No hate nor animosity. You win and protect your teammates like brothers!

:clap::cheer::clap:

eDush
06-22-2016, 01:23 AM
troll thread, and talk about kicking a guy when hes down, good lord.
Yup but I think he means well even with his short sightedness :(

tredigs
06-22-2016, 01:24 AM
Lol, just a pathetically ignorant thread that deserves no other response.

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 01:34 AM
Is he partly a product of his team? sure... which coach isn't? Does this mean Pop is a bad coach as well? Or Phil Jackson... I think Pop is the GOAT coach and i do not like phil as much as the next guy but what great coach isnt a product of their teams? I find this thread dumb just from that stand point really.... I can literally make the same argument against any other great coach. If this was a Luke walton thread you might have a point... Kerr has earned his stripes.... Not the best coach but not one of the worst. Give me a coach that won without help?

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 01:39 AM
troll thread, and talk about kicking a guy when hes down, good lord.


Lol, just a pathetically ignorant thread that deserves no other response.

I dont like Lionel at all but these 2 posts are worse than his post by a lot.... Why respond if you are not gonna bring anything to the topic at all? Tre you speak about how bad the nba area has become quite often and so on down the list but you are just as much apart of the problem when you make bad posts like this... Edush atleast gave insight.... Refute his post or dont post at all and report the thread... All you 2 just did is open things up for others to do the same ****.

DboneG
06-22-2016, 07:44 AM
Overrated yes! The most overrated coach in the NBA...No.

That goes to that guy in San Antonio. Without David Robinson and Tim Duncan he's a marginal coach. Nobody on that team ever smiles, or even try to have fun. I would dread coming to work for that guy. Talk about Steve Kerr riding coattails?! This guy in SA has done it for 20 years!

Just curious...What was Gregg Poopovich record 1996-97 season without Robinson or Duncan.?
17-47, Case closed

If he were such a great coach, he would have found a way to work with HOF'er Dennis Rodman, instead of running him out of town.

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 07:54 AM
Overrated yes! The most overrated coach in the NBA...No.

That goes to that guy in San Antonio. Without David Robinson and Tim Duncan he's a marginal coach. Nobody on that team ever smiles, or even try to have fun. I would dread coming to work for that guy. Talk about Steve Kerr riding coattails?! This guy in SA has done it for 20 years!

Just curious...What was Gregg Poopovich record 1996-97 season without Robinson or Duncan.?
17-47, Case closed

If he were such a great coach, he would have found a way to work with HOF'er Dennis Rodman, instead of running him out of town.

:smoking:

Lionel20
06-22-2016, 08:14 AM
Hate much? Kerr as the coach is a very important piece to the success of the Warriors that only true loyal Dubs fans has recognize. As a new fan, you might not understand by just looking at the numbers and using situational circumstances to make ends meet. Sometimes things happen for the wrong reasons but when the end justify the means for all the right reasons, you just know :nod:. Now I love Jackson as much as anyone but he didn't run this offense efficiently by playing hero ball. We won games by being very talented with all due respect but Kerr has took this team to another level with his teaching from experience that has literally made us until real contenders and one of the best teams in the modern era that we as fans cannot and should not deny. It's a special close knit brotherhood this team has become that respect one another. Curry had said it best in stating that they protect each other like family, not just lip service by saying the right thing - they mean it! It's a special bond by special players from the entire roster along with the coaching staff and the front office.

As Warriors, the team stands united and remain strong!!!

I so :love: this team!!!

:dance:

I consider myself a realist. I just don't always buy the hype the sports mainstream sells me. For instance, Bill Russell was a great player. In fact, he was the best player on one of the best teams. But much like Steph Curry's Warriors, the talent around Russell was so much deeper than the rest of the league it's easy to overlook their individual flaws. Russell never held Chamberlain in check, Chamberlain dominated Russell like he did everyone else. Russell just had many more playmakers to supplement his attack.

I have no problem calling out players/coaches if I feel that they're overrated. Kerr is overrated. Steph, to some degree, is overrated. Unanimous MVP? But this is the 2nd straight Finals were Curry was the 3rd, 4th, maybe 5th best player on the floor. Really? In the biggest stage, he's nowhere near the best.

And this "hero ball" gets overblown. I first herd the phrase use by Doc Rivers in the finals against Lakers. Doc knew that the Lakers, in Bryant, had the best individual player on the floor. If Pierce in particular wanted to go toe-to-toe with Bryant, it'd likely have been a short series in which the Celtics would lose. But if you're the Lakers or Cavs, iso-Hero ball can be a winning strategy.

I'll take a look when I get a chance @ the percentage of team FG's Curry took under Jackson. I think you may be exaggerating the "hero-ball" under Jackson a bit. Even under Kerr, when Curry gets a matchup he likes, let's say Kevin Love. It's a clear out, he's not looking to pass. And at times in the last two series of the season, I thought Curry was far too passive. I doubt that would've happened under Jackson.

IndyRealist
06-22-2016, 08:20 AM
#1 ball movement doesn't have a high correlation with wins because you looked at the extremes and it didn't agree? Outliers do not define statistics, probability and aggregate results do. At best, what you're doing is a vast oversimplification, at worst it raises serious concerns about your methodology with the stats you put out.

IndyRealist
06-22-2016, 08:35 AM
I consider myself a realist. I just don't always buy the hype the sports mainstream sells me. For instance, Bill Russell was a great player. In fact, he was the best player on one of the best teams. But much like Steph Curry's Warriors, the talent around Russell was so much deeper than the rest of the league it's easy to overlook their individual flaws. Russell never held Chamberlain in check, Chamberlain dominated Russell like he did everyone else. Russell just had many more playmakers to supplement his attack.

I have no problem calling out players/coaches if I feel that they're overrated. Kerr is overrated. Steph, to some degree, is overrated. Unanimous MVP? But this is the 2nd straight Finals were Curry was the 3rd, 4th, maybe 5th best player on the floor. Really? In the biggest stage, he's nowhere near the best.

And this "hero ball" gets overblown. I first herd the phrase use by Doc Rivers in the finals against Lakers. Doc knew that the Lakers, in Bryant, had the best individual player on the floor. If Pierce in particular wanted to go toe-to-toe with Bryant, it'd likely have been a short series in which the Celtics would lose. But if you're the Lakers or Cavs, iso-Hero ball can be a winning strategy.

I'll take a look when I get a chance @ the percentage of team FG's Curry took under Jackson. I think you may be exaggerating the "hero-ball" under Jackson a bit. Even under Kerr, when Curry gets a matchup he likes, let's say Kevin Love. It's a clear out, he's not looking to pass. And at times in the last two series of the season, I thought Curry was far too passive. I doubt that would've happened under Jackson.

The Cavs weren't playing "heroball" under any definition. They were running pick n roll and exploiting mismatches, not iso 20ft contested fadeaways. We just had a conversation here about how so much gets called iso when it's really not. People just ignore everything that happens prior to the ballhandler making a move.

Munkeysuit
06-22-2016, 08:37 AM
Steve Kerr isn't the most overrated coach in the NBA, you don't go 73-9 and be labeled overrated at any level!
The Warriors just got beat by a team that played harder than they did and wanted it more than they did, and that opposing team just happened to have Lebron James, the best player in the world right now.

Lionel20
06-22-2016, 08:48 AM
Overrated yes! The most overrated coach in the NBA...No.

That goes to that guy in San Antonio. Without David Robinson and Tim Duncan he's a marginal coach. Nobody on that team ever smiles, or even try to have fun. I would dread coming to work for that guy. Talk about Steve Kerr riding coattails?! This guy in SA has done it for 20 years!

Just curious...What was Gregg Poopovich record 1996-97 season without Robinson or Duncan.?
17-47, Case closed

If he were such a great coach, he would have found a way to work with HOF'er Dennis Rodman, instead of running him out of town.

wow, and here I was thinking I was going against the grain.

It's hard for me to say that Pop is overrated without saying that coaching itself is an overrate feature on this level. I can easily look at the Popovich coaching tree and see his influence. But to me, R.C. Buford had a greater impact on the Spurs success. It was Buford that pushed for Tony Parker in the 2001 draft, and then overrode Pop's love for George Hill, and made the deal with Indiana for Kawhi.

I have Duncan in my top 3 players all-time. He was such a strong influence on both sides of the floor. I give Buford the credit for most of the pieces around him. I believe coaches and managers is baseball, after their ability to lure and recruit players with their mystic are generally overrated, including Pop. And still it's the GM's for the most part responsible for making it work financially on the professional level.

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 09:07 AM
Steve Kerr isn't the most overrated coach in the NBA, you don't go 73-9 and be labeled overrated at any level!
The Warriors just got beat by a team that played harder than they did and wanted it more than they did, and that opposing team just happened to have Lebron James, the best player in the world right now.

Kerr went 73-9? Did you even read his post, dude? Kerr went 34-5 and Walton went 39-4.

Lionel20
06-22-2016, 11:01 AM
#1 ball movement doesn't have a high correlation with wins because you looked at the extremes and it didn't agree? Outliers do not define statistics, probability and aggregate results do. At best, what you're doing is a vast oversimplification, at worst it raises serious concerns about your methodology with the stats you put out.

Where's the outlier?


2015-16 Avg. Seconds per touch team leaders/Team Wins

BEST
1. GSW 2.39 = 73 wins
2. BOS 2.46 = 48 wins
3.) ATL 2.50 = 48 wins
4.) NYK 2.54 = 32 wins
5.) PHX 2.57 = 23 wins
6.) PHI 2.59 = 10 wins
7.) WAS 2.60 = 41 wins
8.) UTH 2.61 = 40 wins
9.) DAL 2.63 = 42 wins
10.) SA 2.64 = 67 wins

Avg. = 41.9 wins

WORST
1.) LAL 2.98 = 17 wins
2.) OKC 2.96 = 55 wins
3.) DET 2.95 = 44 wins
4.) PORT 2.95 = 44 wins
5.) TOR 2.91 = 55 wins
6.) MIN 2.89 = 29 wins
7.) MIA 2.87 = 48 wins
8.) CLE 2.85 = 57 wins
9.) LAC 2.85 = 53 wins
10.) BKN 2.84 = 21 wins

Avg. = 42.3 wins


Again, ball movement doesn't have any correlation with winning. In the 2016 postseason, the three worst teams moving the basketball were the Thunder, Cavs, and Raptors. They were 3 or the 4 teams in the CF, one was the champ, and there combined record was 37-22.

ewing
06-22-2016, 11:43 AM
The only criticism of Kerr's coaching in the OP's thread is that he emphasizes ball movement and that is substantiated by the fact that some teams that don't win too. I have to say, it seems like you are just a hater

IndyRealist
06-22-2016, 02:00 PM
Where's the outlier?


2015-16 Avg. Seconds per touch team leaders/Team Wins

BEST
1. GSW 2.39 = 73 wins
2. BOS 2.46 = 48 wins
3.) ATL 2.50 = 48 wins
4.) NYK 2.54 = 32 wins
5.) PHX 2.57 = 23 wins
6.) PHI 2.59 = 10 wins
7.) WAS 2.60 = 41 wins
8.) UTH 2.61 = 40 wins
9.) DAL 2.63 = 42 wins
10.) SA 2.64 = 67 wins

Avg. = 41.9 wins

WORST
1.) LAL 2.98 = 17 wins
2.) OKC 2.96 = 55 wins
3.) DET 2.95 = 44 wins
4.) PORT 2.95 = 44 wins
5.) TOR 2.91 = 55 wins
6.) MIN 2.89 = 29 wins
7.) MIA 2.87 = 48 wins
8.) CLE 2.85 = 57 wins
9.) LAC 2.85 = 53 wins
10.) BKN 2.84 = 21 wins

Avg. = 42.3 wins


Again, ball movement doesn't have any correlation with winning. In the 2016 postseason, the three worst teams moving the basketball were the Thunder, Cavs, and Raptors. They were 3 or the 4 teams in the CF, one was the champ, and there combined record was 37-22.

Everything I said stands. You posted one top team and one bottom team and concluded that there was no correlation. That, by definition, is looking at outliers.

COOLbeans
06-23-2016, 12:11 AM
As a long time Warriors fan, I kind of agree with the OP. The Warriors would still contend for a championship despite Kerr. He's a good coach but Jackson or any other very good coach would do well with this roster if they implemented the Gentry offense. To Kerrs credit, he's the one who had the Gentry connection and Gentry was willing to coach under him with the Warriors.

Kerr has a much better and more complete roster than Jackson. Livingston and Barbosa have been huge and sometimes are overlooked.

eDush
06-23-2016, 02:09 AM
As a long time Warriors fan, I kind of agree with the OP. The Warriors would still contend for a championship despite Kerr. He's a good coach but Jackson or any other very good coach would do well with this roster if they implemented the Gentry offense. To Kerrs credit, he's the one who had the Gentry connection and Gentry was willing to coach under him with the Warriors.

Kerr has a much better and more complete roster than Jackson. Livingston and Barbosa have been huge and sometimes are overlooked.
Don't go there and disrespect Kerr now as a long time and loyal fan. You are better than that as a fan who understand injustice. The OP doesn't understand and was writing a hate post. Don't go there Beans, trust me on this :(.

FlashBolt
06-23-2016, 11:37 AM
eDush, forget about the numbers, what did you like about Steve Kerr? Can you name five things he did great?

Vee-Rex
06-23-2016, 11:58 AM
I think Kerr is overrated but I don't think he's close to being the worst coach in the league.

The OP only spoke about being the most overrated and supported it with a bunch of facts that can't really be disputed.

The only problem with this is - pretty much every extremely successful coach in the history of the league has had these kind of support systems around them and so the argument could be made about them being overrated too.

Anyhow, I thought OP's post was interesting and solid, whether or not he has an actual agenda. It could be just that head coaches in general are often easily overrated (they are still important, but easily overrated still).

Pfeifer
06-23-2016, 12:20 PM
eDush, forget about the numbers, what did you like about Steve Kerr? Can you name five things he did great?

Name 5 goid things any coach does. The only two things HEAD coaches can affect are time outs and rotation. Its more about a staff as a whole. I would say getting to the finals two years in a row and winning one is pretty solid. I though Lue was terrible but he won.

Pfeifer
06-23-2016, 12:24 PM
I think Kerr is overrated but I don't think he's close to being the worst coach in the league.

The OP only spoke about being the most overrated and supported it with a bunch of facts that can't really be disputed.

The only problem with this is - pretty much every extremely successful coach in the history of the league has had these kind of support systems around them and so the argument could be made about them being overrated too.

Anyhow, I thought OP's post was interesting and solid, whether or not he has an actual agenda. It could be just that head coaches in general are often easily overrated (they are still important, but easily overrated still).

Exactly. Phil Jackson only had Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe lol. Pop had DRob than Duncan. Its all subjective. I would put it this way, any coach that can implement a system that promotes winning within his organization while motivating his players to get better in a positive environment is a great coach. Kerr has done pretty ok if you ask me. Overrated? Probably, but still good.

Lionel20
06-23-2016, 12:33 PM
The only criticism of Kerr's coaching in the OP's thread is that he emphasizes ball movement and that is substantiated by the fact that some teams that don't win too. I have to say, it seems like you are just a hater

You don't understand my point,

It's not a step by step repudiation of everything Steve Kerr, it's pointing out the greatly overlooked assertion that other individuals deserve more credit and are far more responsible for the Warriors' success than him.

Hatin' = criticism with no reasonable basis. Stop watering down the term.


Like "Lebron is not one of the greatest of all-time"

Why?

"Because of the 'Decision' and the way he left Cleveland"

^
That would be hate.



Mark Jackson was fired because Meyers and more importantly Lacob disapproved of his assistant coaching staff. It's not because Jackson's Warriors weren't progressing. Riley and Meyers, to some extent Lacob and Jackson did an excellent job of putting the core player personnel together--the most important thing (I have no clue why Coaches are paid double, even triple the salary of GMs). Jackson, to the degree a coach can, established the Warriors defensive identity and the confidence of the Splash Brothers.

Then, Kerr walks in. He oversees, Gentry's offense, tries to maintain Jackson's defensive framework. I fundamentally disagree with the widespread notion that 1.) Kerr/Gentry ball movement philosophy led to the Warriors winning 16 more games than they did the previous year 2.) That starting Draymond over Lee, when Lee recovered from injury was a tough decision for Kerr.

What the media wants the narrative to be is: Kerr took over, he won a championship, he won 73 games, he won coach of the year, now give him his credit.

But when you look into it: Kerr took over a ready-made team, Lee suffered an injury & the Splash Brothers continued to improve, the Warriors faced an easy path to the Championship in 2015, he won 34 games the next year, he should not have won any 1st placed votes for coach of the year, he's overrated.

Where am I wrong?