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View Full Version : What if Melo had stayed out West



Chronz
06-21-2016, 10:29 PM
Denver was in the middle of building a very nice team around him before he bolted for the big city. They had played the eventual champs as tough as anyone, the following year they were the #1 seed for much of the season, up until George Karl began his fight with cancer IIRC. They even remained an upper tier team once they traded Melo.

Does Melo's career turn out differently, even if he doesn't win a chip (he doesn't), making deep playoff runs can still enhance your career.

YAALREADYKNO
06-21-2016, 10:37 PM
That 09 Denver team was fun to watch

tp13baby
06-21-2016, 11:01 PM
Denver was in the middle of building a very nice team around him before he bolted for the big city. They had played the eventual champs as tough as anyone, the following year they were the #1 seed for much of the season, up until George Karl began his fight with cancer IIRC. They even remained an upper tier team once they traded Melo.

Does Melo's career turn out differently, even if he doesn't win a chip (he doesn't), making deep playoff runs can still enhance your career.

Man it makes you wonder. The year Melo was traded I really thought we had the best chance. The Lakers were loaded that year but we would of matched up well with them. The Thuggets had the pieces, and if it weren't for 2 bad throw ins against LA on crucial/final possesions.....who knows... who knows.

KingstonHawke
06-21-2016, 11:03 PM
I don't know if they win any, but they definitely are competitive every year. I used to LOVE that team when it had AI putting up MVP numbers, JR Smith jacking up shots that made no sense at all.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2016, 11:09 PM
I was actually thinking about Melo last night and how he must feel after lebron won.. He has 0 rings.. 0 mvps.... 0 finals appearances and plays 0 defense.... All that talent and he might be one of the most forgotten players ever down the line... If there was ever anyone who needed to join a super team its him but he wont do it and its going to kill his legacy,

Hes basically a bigger Iverson without the finals appearance. Hell is his best season even as good as iversons best season?

Aust
06-21-2016, 11:35 PM
That Denver team was damn good with some tough mofos

tp13baby
06-21-2016, 11:41 PM
I don't know if they win any, but they definitely are competitive every year. I used to LOVE that team when it had AI putting up MVP numbers, JR Smith jacking up shots that made no sense at all.

The 07 team on talent alone should of made it to the WCF. That's why when Sacremento hired GK, I knew that was the worst decision. It was his worst year of his career, and proved he couldn't handle egos.

xxplayerxx23
06-21-2016, 11:47 PM
I was actually thinking about Melo last night and how he must feel after lebron won.. He has 0 rings.. 0 mvps.... 0 finals appearances and plays 0 defense.... All that talent and he might be one of the most forgotten players ever down the line... If there was ever anyone who needed to join a super team its him but he wont do it and its going to kill his legacy,

Hes basically a bigger Iverson without the finals appearance. Hell is his best season even as good as iversons best season?


Lol plays zero defense some people just love reading this site. Melo is a great scorer he will still make the hall of fame

unleashthebeast
06-22-2016, 12:01 AM
Lol plays zero defense some people just love reading this site. Melo is a great scorer he will still make the hall of fame

Not exactly a crowning achievement there haha

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 03:20 AM
Lol plays zero defense some people just love reading this site. Melo is a great scorer he will still make the hall of fame

He plays good 1v1 defense but help defense and perimeter defense he is really bad and lazy.

naps
06-22-2016, 03:35 AM
I used to like Melo a lot in Denver. Then I slowly figured once he moved to NY, he aint about winning. He can talk all he wants about wanting to be a champ but his actions clearly indicate otherwise. His last deal made zero sense from a basketball and winning standpoint. Should have gone to Chicago, even his college coach advised him to go but he opted for money, fame, brighter lights, and losing.

jimm120
06-22-2016, 07:32 AM
I was actually thinking about Melo last night and how he must feel after lebron won.. He has 0 rings.. 0 mvps.... 0 finals appearances and plays 0 defense.... All that talent and he might be one of the most forgotten players ever down the line... If there was ever anyone who needed to join a super team its him but he wont do it and its going to kill his legacy,

Hes basically a bigger Iverson without the finals appearance. Hell is his best season even as good as iversons best season?

See...I hate this notion of bad defense or "zero defense" grown out. Melo has gotten better at defense and facets of his defense have always been good.

Above average man to man defense.
-he can hold his own 1 on 1. Always.

Slightly below average help defense.
-he won't stop you from driving in when he's the help defender, but he has quick hands and gets a ton of steals and swipe blocks on those guys. At the very least, he forces players to adjust a bit for a double pump while in mid air, making the shot more difficult.

Defensive awareness/Off the ball defense
-this has always been his biggest deficiency. He would, at least twice a game, get caught looking at the ball handler and lose his man. Or be in the wrong position. That said, he was pretty good this year in that regard too. He stayed with his men. He didn't lose people when his player didn't have the ball. This facet of defense was actually good this year!


I just really hate it when people. Perpetuate that he has bad defense. Stop comparing him to Lebron.

jimm120
06-22-2016, 07:34 AM
I used to like Melo a lot in Denver. Then I slowly figured once he moved to NY, he aint about winning. He can talk all he wants about wanting to be a champ but his actions clearly indicate otherwise. His last deal made zero sense from a basketball and winning standpoint. Should have gone to Chicago, even his college coach advised him to go but he opted for money, fame, brighter lights, and losing.

Did you see what happened with Chicago? Obviously the right situation to go. He opted to stay in ny and believe in Phil.

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 07:51 AM
See...I hate this notion of bad defense or "zero defense" grown out. Melo has gotten better at defense and facets of his defense have always been good.

Above average man to man defense.
-he can hold his own 1 on 1. Always.

Slightly below average help defense.
-he won't stop you from driving in when he's the help defender, but he has quick hands and gets a ton of steals and swipe blocks on those guys. At the very least, he forces players to adjust a bit for a double pump while in mid air, making the shot more difficult.

Defensive awareness/Off the ball defense
-this has always been his biggest deficiency. He would, at least twice a game, get caught looking at the ball handler and lose his man. Or be in the wrong position. That said, he was pretty good this year in that regard too. He stayed with his men. He didn't lose people when his player didn't have the ball. This facet of defense was actually good this year!


I just really hate it when people. Perpetuate that he has bad defense. Stop comparing him to Lebron.

Um yes he was good this year but that is 1 year out of an entire career... in the 2014/2015 season for example he was the 2nd worst wing defender at guarding the 3 in all of basketball.... the only one worse was P.J Hairston

1 year does not take away the othet 56 years

Munkeysuit
06-22-2016, 08:42 AM
Melo to Houston or LAC would shake the West up dramatically.

Stunner
06-22-2016, 09:28 AM
Did you see what happened with Chicago? Obviously the right situation to go. He opted to stay in ny and believe in Phil.

I don't think Chicago implodes if Melo went tho , and even if he did Melo even with Chicago's current situation is better than what he's been going thru in NY.

jimm120
06-22-2016, 09:53 AM
Um yes he was good this year but that is 1 year out of an entire career... in the 2014/2015 season for example he was the 2nd worst wing defender at guarding the 3 in all of basketball.... the only one worse was P.J Hairston

1 year does not take away the othet 56 years

Again, I said he has never been a bad defender with the Knicks. He's been bad at off the ball defense, but the other two important traits were always league average..

And I don't say that only this year. No, it's always been like this.

The only difference THIS year is that his off the ball play improved.

But every other year, he's had acceptable help defense and good man to man defense. That's not a 1 year thing. That's his whole time in ny.

funkybudda
06-22-2016, 11:02 AM
I just really hate it when people. Perpetuate that he has bad defense. Stop comparing him to Lebron.

Even a NBA fan in full ****** mode would not compare Melo to Lebron, One is a true centerpiece type player, melo is just a good piece to add. Clearly he's not someone you build around with.

thapastime7
06-22-2016, 11:05 AM
I don't think Chicago implodes if Melo went tho , and even if he did Melo even with Chicago's current situation is better than what he's been going thru in NY.

Bulls to get melo had to shed salary and players including butler and probably Noah for a sign and trade or melo take less money which no one will turned down an additional 24 million. So you would essentially have the same team. Look at them now thibbs fired and close to a rebuild.

Melo and Amare or Melo and Rose ( Amare 2.0). He took the challenge of making NY relevant again and trusting phil yet no one wants to give him credit for challenging himself to make NY a better team. His no trade clause is for him to be able to not get traded to a non contender because Knicks would try to get a ransom and only non contender would give.

Crackadalic
06-22-2016, 11:22 AM
Um yes he was good this year but that is 1 year out of an entire career... in the 2014/2015 season for example he was the 2nd worst wing defender at guarding the 3 in all of basketball.... the only one worse was P.J Hairston

1 year does not take away the othet 56 years

You mean the one year he was playing with a bad knee since the 2nd game of the season and refuse to do anything about because he's hard headed?

Good job picking that one year bro. As someone who watch every knick game his worse defense was probably his 1st season and last which is understandable because of refusing to get the surgery after the month he injured his knee

To answer the op's question I think he would have at least made another conference finals apperence at the very least.

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 11:35 AM
Melo should have went to the Bulls. Chose money over championship and it's his problem now. He's simply not good enough to be paid max and carry a team.

jimm120
06-22-2016, 11:58 AM
Melo should have went to the Bulls. Chose money over championship and it's his problem now. He's simply not good enough to be paid max and carry a team.

How can people perpetuate this thinking?

Look at the bulls! Every single piece is breaking down. He chose wisely to not go there. After the amare experience, he did t want yet another amare (Rose) as his main teammate.

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 12:02 PM
How can people perpetuate this thinking?

Look at the bulls! Every single piece is breaking down. He chose wisely to not go there. After the amare experience, he did t want yet another amare (Rose) as his main teammate.

Only cause Butler was injured... A healthy Butler+Melo+Gasol and a Rose would have been capable of reaching the ECF.

Stunner
06-22-2016, 12:30 PM
Bulls to get melo had to shed salary and players including butler and probably Noah for a sign and trade or melo take less money which no one will turned down an additional 24 million. So you would essentially have the same team. Look at them now thibbs fired and close to a rebuild.

Melo and Amare or Melo and Rose ( Amare 2.0). He took the challenge of making NY relevant again and trusting phil yet no one wants to give him credit for challenging himself to make NY a better team. His no trade clause is for him to be able to not get traded to a non contender because Knicks would try to get a ransom and only non contender would give.

Melo could have signed for less , opted out and then signed for more money . That's the offer and agreement the Bulls had for Melo so he could have gotten his money he got from the Knicks .

Melo the year he was a free agent would have had Butler / Noah / Rose to play with and the other role players still there . Pau didn't come till after the Bulls missed on Melo but even then Pau wanted to play with Melo a lil and who knows what would have happen if Melo signed with Chicago first . Does Pau take even less than he did to play with the Bulls with Melo joining the gang ? We will never know .


And yes I already stated on the Thibs thing , I believe if Melo was here Thibs never would have gotten fired , it was a front office ego thing . But even if he did get fired with Melo here the Bulls situation still trumps the Knicks situation of last year .


It's cool Melo wanted to trust Phil and stick through it but I think it's time for him to break up with NY for his legacy and try to get himself a ring . It benefits the Knicks and Melo

Stunner
06-22-2016, 12:37 PM
Only cause Butler was injured... A healthy Butler+Melo+Gasol and a Rose would have been capable of reaching the ECF.

Everyone loves hindsight when they talk about Chicago about believe it or not Melo coming to Chicago would have stretched out the sone of issues the Bulls had front office wise . Melo with the 2015 Bulls in the playoffs knock out the Cavs in the 2nd round ; Bulls this year before butler got hurt were a top 3 seed in the east and then injuries and no defense mounted on and it was just too late to comeback from . Melo being there would have helped win 3-5 more games with butler out . They missed the playoffs by 2 games and it really hurts us Bulls fans seeing the raptors in the ECF because if we got the 7 seed with our current bunch we would have beat them in the first round . But it's all in the part now , I just hate it when Knicks fans be like " what do you mean he should have went to Chicago look at Chicago now " situation still better than what's happening in NY at the moment . Phil practically gifted the Cavs their Championship roster too , some GM .

Aust
06-22-2016, 01:29 PM
Melo to Houston or LAC would shake the West up dramatically.

How would LAC acquire him though? What pieces would they give and how would they fit him under the cap?

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 01:32 PM
How would LAC acquire him though? What pieces would they give and how would they fit him under the cap?

Trade BG for Melo.
Dwight just opted out. most likely not resigning.

yungincome
06-22-2016, 01:53 PM
See...I hate this notion of bad defense or "zero defense" grown out. Melo has gotten better at defense and facets of his defense have always been good.

Above average man to man defense.
-he can hold his own 1 on 1. Always.

Slightly below average help defense.
-he won't stop you from driving in when he's the help defender, but he has quick hands and gets a ton of steals and swipe blocks on those guys. At the very least, he forces players to adjust a bit for a double pump while in mid air, making the shot more difficult.

Defensive awareness/Off the ball defense
-this has always been his biggest deficiency. He would, at least twice a game, get caught looking at the ball handler and lose his man. Or be in the wrong position. That said, he was pretty good this year in that regard too. He stayed with his men. He didn't lose people when his player didn't have the ball. This facet of defense was actually good this year!


I just really hate it when people. Perpetuate that he has bad defense. Stop comparing him to Lebron.

Thank you!! You know who plays no defense? James fudging Harden. Greg fudging Monroe, Jose fudging Calderon. At least Melo tries. Oh, and that ballstopper crap could stop now. This use to piss me off, but he no longer does that. He may have his moments, because he's the only one that looks like he could score at times, but this year he was a very willing passer. He bought into the system.

b@llhog24
06-23-2016, 01:14 PM
Melo to Houston or LAC would shake the West up dramatically.

Him and Harden would give up 50 points a game.


Again, I said he has never been a bad defender with the Knicks. He's been bad at off the ball defense, but the other two important traits were always league average..

And I don't say that only this year. No, it's always been like this.

The only difference THIS year is that his off the ball play improved.

But every other year, he's had acceptable help defense and good man to man defense. That's not a 1 year thing. That's his whole time in ny.

Nah. Melo's help defense has always been bad.

kobe4thewinbang
06-23-2016, 02:31 PM
Can someone remind me why the trade happened in the first place? I watched the Championship video for the Lakers team that year and remember Nuggets taking them into a fight in that series en route to a title. Then Carmelo got traded for Gallinari right? But why?

b@llhog24
06-23-2016, 03:37 PM
Can someone remind me why the trade happened in the first place? I watched the Championship video for the Lakers team that year and remember Nuggets taking them into a fight in that series en route to a title. Then Carmelo got traded for Gallinari right? But why?

Melo wanted out after they lost in the first round.

PowerHouse
06-23-2016, 04:08 PM
Can someone remind me why the trade happened in the first place? I watched the Championship video for the Lakers team that year and remember Nuggets taking them into a fight in that series en route to a title. Then Carmelo got traded for Gallinari right? But why?

if memory serves correct Melo was traded for Gallo, Chandler, Felton and prolly somebody else. Almost a whole starting rotation for him lol.

b@llhog24
06-23-2016, 04:47 PM
if memory serves correct Melo was traded for Gallo, Chandler, Felton and prolly somebody else. Almost a whole starting rotation for him lol.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/carmeloanthonyacquired.html

naps
06-23-2016, 04:48 PM
Did you see what happened with Chicago? Obviously the right situation to go. He opted to stay in ny and believe in Phil.

Except things could have been so much different. Thibs was still there and they were still one of the best teams in the east without him. From basketball POV, it was a no-brainer.

FOXHOUND
06-23-2016, 04:54 PM
Melo 100% made the correct choice. The Nuggets were going nowhere as constructed with many old players. The Knicks could have done some serious damage if not for some dumb decisions like amnestying Billups instead of Amare and having the misfortune of Amare's injuries. The 2012-13 Knicks were very good and could have been a contender if the $20M being wasted on Amare was repurposed.

Oh well.

JasonJohnHorn
06-23-2016, 06:26 PM
I can't see Denver making much noise, even if Melo had stayed.

Couple issues, the first being that Melo simply isn't the first option on a title team where he is required to dominate. If you put him on a team like the 04 Pistons with some minor changes, obviously they could win. But I don't think he's scoring as much. He's a good player, but he reminds me a little of guys like Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguire: they could score a lot, but they couldn't lead a team.

The other things is that the Nuggets were a lot like the current Raptors team. Great regular season team, and if they have a path in the playoffs where they have good match-ups, they can win, but they can't contend.



The biggest question is the competition. The Nuggets wouldn't have been good enough to beat LAC, GSW, OKC or SAS. that mean that they'd likely be facing first round eliminations, or if they play well in the reg season, a second round match-up that is unfavourable. With injury bugs hitting teams up each year, they could have made a run to the conference finals in the right bracket, but he'd still be getting criticized for not winning.