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View Full Version : Curry with the Worst Finals Apperance by an MVP in modern history



Jeffy25
06-20-2016, 08:17 PM
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-finals-mvp-worst-ever-062016




5. Michael Jordan, 1996 (won the title in 6)
27.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.0 turnovers per game; 41.5 FG%

4. Stephen Curry, 2015 (won the title in 6)
26.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 4.7 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG%

3. Karl Malone, 1997 (lost the title in 6)
23.8 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.3 blocks, 2.3 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG%

2. Kobe Bryant, 2008 (lost the title in 6)
25.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 2.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.8 turnovers per game; 40.5 FG%

1. Stephen Curry, 2016 (lost the title in 7)
22.6 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 4.3 turnovers per game; 40.3 FG%


Thoughts?

Jeffy25
06-20-2016, 08:20 PM
Additionally


The gap between 2016 Curry and 2008 Kobe (or anyone else on this list) is absolutely astonishing.

Of the 22 times a player appeared in The Finals the same year he won the MVP, Curry had the worst scoring average (more than a point lower than Malone in 1997), eighth-lowest assists per game, second-worst steals per game, second-worst turnovers per game (behind his 2015 performance), and worst field goal percentage.

Saddletramp
06-20-2016, 08:24 PM
Maybe he didn't pray hard enough and thank God hard enough after every make.

Heediot
06-20-2016, 08:24 PM
Not to mention the horrid defense lol.

mngopher35
06-20-2016, 08:34 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc.

More-Than-Most
06-20-2016, 08:40 PM
huh. Jordan is on that list but James isnt? Interesting.

Teeboy1487
06-20-2016, 08:42 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc. Agreed. I want to see how Curry responds.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-20-2016, 08:42 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of his at all but I still admire his greatness and what he accomplished this season.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-20-2016, 08:49 PM
I think part of this has to do with the fact that his laziness in passing, and sometimes shooting, finally caught up to him and got exploited by the Cavs.

More-Than-Most
06-20-2016, 08:50 PM
its also the fact that the cavs punched him in the mouth and actually made him try to defend and there arent many teams who have the defensive talent to do that like the cavs do.. Its why they were so successful with Love off the floor.

ink
06-20-2016, 08:50 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc.

Agreed.

lakerfan85
06-20-2016, 09:01 PM
huh. Jordan is on that list but James isnt? Interesting.

He still has time left..

DboneG
06-20-2016, 09:02 PM
The skinny kid had a big knot on his elbow! Give him a break!

Shammyguy3
06-20-2016, 09:10 PM
i don't care about field goal percentage. Give me ts% and ORtg and then we'll see how he stacks up.


5. Michael Jordan, 1996 (won the title in 6)
27.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.0 turnovers per game; 41.5 FG% 53.8ts% 116 ORtg

4. Stephen Curry, 2015 (won the title in 6)
26.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 4.7 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG% 58.5ts% 104 ORtg

3. Karl Malone, 1997 (lost the title in 6)
23.8 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.3 blocks, 2.3 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG% 48.5ts% 102 ORtg

2. Kobe Bryant, 2008 (lost the title in 6)
25.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 2.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.8 turnovers per game; 40.5 FG% 50.5ts%98 ORtg

1. Stephen Curry, 2016 (lost the title in 7)
22.6 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 4.3 turnovers per game; 40.3 FG% 58.0ts% 102 ORtg

Malone's is definitely the worst, followed by Kobe (although CP3 should've won the ring).

FlashBolt
06-20-2016, 09:13 PM
It was bad. Nothing else needs to be said. He'll come back better next season. Dude was hurt also... Great series by Cavs, they won and did something historic. Warriors have nothing to be ashamed about. Still a very young team with their core in-tact if they can sign Curry/Iggy for the next few seasons. This won't be the last time they meet.

DboneG
06-20-2016, 09:15 PM
Guys bulk up(strong bodies) in the NBA because of the rigors of the game. It's not football, but, believe me...you are sore after a game. NOW! Skinny Curry almost playing 100 games and still going! Wow! What is he on?! I thought he would break down/slow down long ago. Forgot...he don't play defense. Curry would rather reach, look for help, look at the refs, or fall down.

I think Curry being all banged up had something to do with it.

Jeffy25
06-20-2016, 09:20 PM
huh. Jordan is on that list but James isnt? Interesting.

12 and 13 are the years he won an MVP and made the Finals

And he was plenty good in both of those Finals appearances

Kush McDaniels
06-20-2016, 09:20 PM
huh. Jordan is on that list but James isnt? Interesting.

Rose won MVP in 2011 when LeBron had his only truly crappy finals

Shammyguy3
06-20-2016, 09:30 PM
It was bad. Nothing else needs to be said. He'll come back better next season. Dude was hurt also... Great series by Cavs, they won and did something historic. Warriors have nothing to be ashamed about. Still a very young team with their core in-tact if they can sign Curry/Iggy for the next few seasons. This won't be the last time they meet.

This

mngopher35
06-20-2016, 09:36 PM
Thanks for posting the numbers Shammy, I agree those are more important than fg%. I think given the defense and mistakes he made throughout you can call Currys the worst performance still but I just wanted to point out that fg% clearly wasn't taking everything into account.

Cal827
06-21-2016, 12:01 AM
Where's Allen Iverson on this list :laugh2:

LOb0
06-21-2016, 12:02 AM
Wasn't Kobe terrible in the 2004 finals?

Cal827
06-21-2016, 12:07 AM
Also, that's because let the media (and Lebron) get to his freaking head. As an MVP, when things aren't going your way. You're supposed to be able to make proper adjustments. Curry didn't do that. The best example was towards the end of game 7. He wasn't shooting the ball particularly well from long range in the second half, but the game was tied. He could've done multiple things. He could have tried to drive inside (cause at that point in the game, any lead is a good thing, so if he got to the line, or got a lay up, it would be good), he could try to draw attention then kick it out to a guy who's defender could've been shifting over (he is a PG after all :laugh2 ). Instead, he chucks up a long 3 with people around him and bricks them. This should serve as a harsh learning experience for Steph (if that 3 between his eyes also don't show him that he has to work on his defense, cause the world now knows you aren't exactly a great defender :laugh2 ).... I'm interested to see how he rebounds next season.

Shammyguy3
06-21-2016, 12:08 AM
Where's Allen Iverson on this list :laugh2:
I'll check those out tomorrow and see how he didn't make the list

Wasn't Kobe terrible in the 2004 finals?

He wasn't the MVP

nastynice
06-21-2016, 12:13 AM
Also, that's because let the media (and Lebron) get to his freaking head. As an MVP, when things aren't going your way. You're supposed to be able to make proper adjustments. Curry didn't do that. The best example was towards the end of game 7. He wasn't shooting the ball particularly well from long range in the second half, but the game was tied. He could've done multiple things. He could have tried to drive inside (cause at that point in the game, any lead is a good thing, so if he got to the line, or got a lay up, it would be good), he could try to draw attention then kick it out to a guy who's defender could've been shifting over (he is a PG after all :laugh2 ). Instead, he chucks up a long 3 with people around him and bricks them. This should serve as a harsh learning experience for Steph (if that 3 between his eyes also don't show him that he has to work on his defense, cause the world now knows you aren't exactly a great defender :laugh2 ).... I'm interested to see how he rebounds next season.

Very bad finals for sure. All the great players and teams went thru some form of growing pains, it's how they learn to grow and take it to the next level. Hopefully that's what this experience was for curry and he can bounce back. Hell, this squad bounced back after WINNING the title last year, hopefully they got some more of that in em.

zn23
06-21-2016, 12:17 AM
How he responds next season will say a lot about him.

Saddletramp
06-21-2016, 01:05 AM
How he responds next season will say a lot about him.

That sig is awesome.

prodigy
06-21-2016, 01:12 AM
3 assists dang!

Should have drove a little more cavs were giving him that all series. He settled for 3's. 14 of his 17 shots in game 7 were 3's smh... When his 3 ball is not falling he does not contribute anything to a basketball team. I know im gonna get heat for saying that. But its true. He's a great shooter, so his shot tends to always fall. But when it don't he's an avg player.

kobe4thewinbang
06-21-2016, 01:22 AM
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-finals-mvp-worst-ever-062016




Thoughts?LOL, Kobe had more assists in his MVP year. Ouch.

Jayb587
06-21-2016, 02:12 AM
atleast kobe was playing against one of the best defensive teams in nba history. whats curry's excuse.

europagnpilgrim
06-21-2016, 02:23 AM
Where's Allen Iverson on this list :laugh2:

35.6ppg 5.6rpg 3.8apg 1.8spg 12total turnovers(5 games) 41fg%

47mpg

his 6th man of the year mate put up 8ppg that series

https://youtu.be/CPot-xpOc9I

https://youtu.be/QyTJiL3HFN0

your question should be how in the world did they even make the ECF let alone a finals trip with a core of Mckie/Snow(7yrs as mates) and he got them guys a combined 80mill in contract money, they are barely worth 20combined in any market/era, they could have drafted better around The Answer and through free agency with an extra 60million to spend

sf-fanatic
06-21-2016, 02:34 AM
I hope Kerr at least tightens up the coaching a little next season. All year, the Warriors played undisciplined basketball and got away with it with 73 wins. They got away with it the first 2 rounds of the playoffs too. In the last 2 rounds, they had to play a little more disciplined and refused to which ended up being the difference. Curry went back to bad habits with the behind the back passes, one hand passes, and lazy passing. The shot selection was also questionable at times. It worked in the regular season and early playoffs. However, the criticism is deserved and Curry did say he is taking the criticism on the chin. I expect him to work on it this offseason and Kerr is a good enough coach to implement an improved defensive system that can hide Curry. With Klay only 26, Green 26, and Curry just turned 28, I expect the Warriors to be back hungrier next year and clean up their style of play. It's scary to think that they might even be better.

nastynice
06-21-2016, 02:34 AM
3 assists dang!

Should have drove a little more cavs were giving him that all series. He settled for 3's. 14 of his 17 shots in game 7 were 3's smh... When his 3 ball is not falling he does not contribute anything to a basketball team. I know im gonna get heat for saying that. But its true. He's a great shooter, so his shot tends to always fall. But when it don't he's an avg player.

Well, regarding these playoffs it IS absolutely true, so if u don't really follow the Warriors I don't see why anyone would give u heat. The playoffs are what matters, it's what everyone pays attention to, so I can't really fault anyone for saying that who doesn't see much Warriors outside of that

nastynice
06-21-2016, 02:38 AM
I hope Kerr at least tightens up the coaching a little next season. All year, the Warriors played undisciplined basketball and got away with it with 73 wins. They got away with it the first 2 rounds of the playoffs too. In the last 2 rounds, they had to play a little more disciplined and refused to which ended up being the difference. Curry went back to bad habits with the behind the back passes, one hand passes, and lazy passing. The shot selection was also questionable at times. It worked in the regular season and early playoffs. However, the criticism is deserved and Curry did say he is taking the criticism on the chin. I expect him to work on it this offseason and Kerr is a good enough coach to implement an improved defensive system that can hide Curry. With Klay only 26, Green 26, and Curry just turned 28, I expect the Warriors to be back hungrier next year and clean up their style of play. It's scary to think that they might even be better.

He absolutely should take it on the chin, there's no excuse for the stuff he was doing. I do like how he (and iggy) stayed on the court to watch the cavs celebrate, said he didn't want to forget that feeling (also to congratulate), looks like he's taking responsibility and has the mentality to clean up the sloppiness. Green is the heart and soul of the team, but curry needs to grow mentally as a leader in his own right. His career can take one of two paths from here, I'm hoping it's the one that brings more success to the bay

BKLYNpigeon
06-21-2016, 02:51 AM
Its obvious that Curry was playing injured.

You don't Recover from a sprained ankle and MCL in the playoffs, you just Grind through it.


Cavs constantly forced Curry to go left so he would have to push off his right knee where he Hurt his MCL. He dine look right and did not have his lateral movements at all.

goingfor28
06-21-2016, 03:21 AM
Its obvious that Curry was playing injured.

You don't Recover from a sprained ankle and MCL in the playoffs, you just Grind through it.


Cavs constantly forced Curry to go left so he would have to push off his right knee where he Hurt his MCL. He dine look right and did not have his lateral movements at all.

Excuses excuses. If it were LeBron who had those injuries he would've been crucified by everyone.
Curry choked, plain and simple. So did Klay. What was his excuse?

prodigy
06-21-2016, 04:15 AM
Well, regarding these playoffs it IS absolutely true, so if u don't really follow the Warriors I don't see why anyone would give u heat. The playoffs are what matters, it's what everyone pays attention to, so I can't really fault anyone for saying that who doesn't see much Warriors outside of that

Seen my fair share of warrior games. He took 11+ a game lol. from three. So my point still stands.

prodigy
06-21-2016, 04:18 AM
Excuses excuses. If it were LeBron who had those injuries he would've been crucified by everyone.
Curry choked, plain and simple. So did Klay. What was his excuse?

This. I was made fun of by warrior fans when I talked about Love and Irving injuries last season. they actually missed the finals lol. Curry played and had good games since his injury.

nastynice
06-21-2016, 04:46 AM
Seen my fair share of warrior games. He took 11+ a game lol. from three. So my point still stands.

He was not an elite finisher at the rim? He did not drive to the basket regularly?

Of course he's shooting threes, dude was at a 45% clip, but there's a reason last year's MVP was legitimately talked about as this year's most improved player..

Ur fair share was clearly not fair enough :)

thenaj17
06-21-2016, 05:43 AM
How Kobe's ranked 2nd on all time worst finals in his MVP year is a joke. He was constantly doubled and no TS% or FG% will tell you that. Pau was pathetic in that series vs Celtics, Odom shockingly inconsistent and Ariza and Bynum were injured. Radmanovic started SF every game...

Jordan has no business being on that list either.

Whoever is bringing up TS% to support Curry is an idiot and clearly prefers stats over watching games. Of course his TS% is going to be high, he takes a very high volume of 3's and gets plenty of FT's. His impact on both of the Finals however was extremely minimal. As soon as his 3 pointers aren't falling, he struggles big time.

All the people trying to claim Curry is the best player in the league needs a head wobble, he's not even top 3. LeBron is by far the best overall and impactful player on the court every single night and I would take Westbrook, Durant ahead of him and arguably Leonard & George too. Defence matters also

sf-fanatic
06-21-2016, 05:55 AM
How Kobe's ranked 2nd on all time worst finals in his MVP year is a joke. He was constantly doubled and no TS% or FG% will tell you that. Pau was pathetic in that series vs Celtics, Odom shockingly inconsistent and Ariza and Bynum were injured. Radmanovic started SF every game...

Jordan has no business being on that list either.

Whoever is bringing up TS% to support Curry is an idiot and clearly prefers stats over watching games. Of course his TS% is going to be high, he takes a very high volume of 3's and gets plenty of FT's. His impact on both of the Finals however was extremely minimal. As soon as his 3 pointers aren't falling, he struggles big time.

All the people trying to claim Curry is the best player in the league needs a head wobble, he's not even top 3. LeBron is by far the best overall and impactful player on the court every single night and I would take Westbrook, Durant ahead of him and arguably Leonard & George too. Defence matters also

Curry is tied for 26th averaging 5.1 free throws a game in the regular season...

Hawkeye15
06-21-2016, 10:03 AM
I am not sure it was the worst, but yeah, he had a poor series. Still not sure if his knee was 100%. Regardless, people get banged up. He is a great player, and will respond next season I am sure.

Careful, no need to go overboard on a guy, we have done that with enough players around here.

ink
06-21-2016, 11:25 AM
Its obvious that Curry was playing injured.

You don't Recover from a sprained ankle and MCL in the playoffs, you just Grind through it.


Cavs constantly forced Curry to go left so he would have to push off his right knee where he Hurt his MCL. He dine look right and did not have his lateral movements at all.

Exactly. Plus leg injuries are seriously going to affect shooting mechanics. The playoffs were a write off for him, amazed he got through them.

FlashBolt
06-21-2016, 11:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz29FUCJWWc

Don't forget that the Cavs are lucky this guy didn't show up. If he did, Cavs would have been swept. Yes, he was clearly not 100%. No, I don't think it was as bad as some of you are saying. Moment just got too big for him and he went through zero adversity. LeBron trash talking him really killed his confidence.

koreancabbage
06-21-2016, 11:59 AM
How he responds next season will say a lot about him.

that sig LOL

CHANGO
06-21-2016, 01:25 PM
Why is criticizing someone being hateful? There's no hate in stating the obvious, he sucked PERIOD. He was bad, was a liability in both ends, and since game 3 or 4 I said his Finals performance was worst than Lebron's 2011. Lebron actually defended in those Finals.

He is a great player, but there are not excuses, he have 2 of the "worst Finals performance by an MVP" following this article, so, something's gotta be wrong.

CHANGO
06-21-2016, 01:31 PM
Two consecutive Finals when the Splash Bros are below average. What's the excuse now? First it was, they are young, first time in the Finals they were nervous. Now the excuse for Curry is he was injured and for Klay?

ink
06-21-2016, 01:42 PM
Curry doesn't win by being physically dominant because he isn't that type of player. He wins by being strategically dominant. The Cavs took that away from him and absolutely harassed him physically. They played him very hard and forced him out of his game. Remember, he can't take over games by imposing his will. He's not Green or Lebron. That's not the type of player he is. Credit the Cavs for dismantling him and exploiting every vulnerability they could find. And yes, his injuries would contribute to his compete level, his defence, and his shooting.

mngopher35
06-21-2016, 02:00 PM
I think the force of his 3 is actually his biggest asset not just being strategically dominant (not sure what you mean by that but I take it as high bball IQ). He actually plays a bit too loose for me and makes a decent amount of errors in judgement so I do actually think his bball IQ has room to grow still (that behind the back pass being an obvious example). If you take away that 3 pt ability I think his drive to the rim and playmaking abilities also take a hit as he will get less respect/attention outside from the defense and they can then close everything else off. To me that is his main threat, not physicality or bball IQ even if the latter is good despite what I said, that's not the separator.

This isn't a knock or anything as he is the best 3 pt shooter ever so obviously you use it to your advantage. I don't think Lebron would be as good if he was an average athlete either, same kinda thing. The playmaking/jump shooting looks better when teams have no way of matching up physically on defense and have to overreact (he's generally either bigger/stronger or faster). He is probably a higher IQ player to me than Curry but that too might be affected because athleticism can help make up for smaller mistakes and he is a bit older as well. Either way the 3pt shot and athleticism are what really separate these guys from others, and those traits help amplify their other talents which they are still good at.

Criticizing Curry objectively is fine and this thread didn't take off like I thought. I just don't want another all time great to get continuously bashed for one performance by a large group of "haters". It seems like that won't happen here to the extent I first thought it would.

ink
06-21-2016, 02:08 PM
I think the force of his 3 is actually his biggest asset not just being strategically dominant (not sure what you mean by that but I take it as high bball IQ).

About the 3 being his biggest asset: I wouldn't disagree with that and that's why I think the leg injuries are a factor, affecting his mechanics.

Yes, by strategically dominant I mean that his facilitating and outwitting with his ball IQ. Against a championship calibre team who have multiple games to focus down on you, that strategic advantage is neutralized. It sure was in this series. And then, not being able to make the shots he's made for years makes it worse. There's a lot more to it than the facile criticism that he "choked". There always is, whether you're talking about Curry, Lebron or Kobe's finals losses. Always.


He actually plays a bit too loose for me and makes a decent amount of errors in judgement so I do actually think his bball IQ has room to grow still (that behind the back pass being an obvious example). If you take away that 3 pt ability I think his drive to the rim and playmaking abilities also take a hit as he will get less respect/attention outside from the defense and they can then close everything else off. To me that is his main threat, not physicality or bball IQ even if the latter is good despite what I said, that's not the separator.

Totally agree about playing too loose and it's the thing that I've always thought would bite him in the ***. Thing is, it's also what can be so brilliant about him when it works. Better decision making definitely has to be top priority for him next year.


Criticizing Curry objectively is fine and this thread didn't take off like I thought. I just don't want another all time great to get continuously bashed for one performance by a large group of "haters". It seems like that won't happen here to the extent I first thought it would.

Seconded. Great post.

Sly Guy
06-21-2016, 03:46 PM
from what I watched, he was nailed to the bench with foul trouble a lot of the series, and that cut into his numbers without a doubt. A lot of them were pretty bogus calls, too. I don't take this series as a reflection on him as a player at all.

Saddletramp
06-21-2016, 04:22 PM
He absolutely should take it on the chin, there's no excuse for the stuff he was doing. I do like how he (and iggy) stayed on the court to watch the cavs celebrate, said he didn't want to forget that feeling (also to congratulate), looks like he's taking responsibility and has the mentality to clean up the sloppiness. Green is the heart and soul of the team, but curry needs to grow mentally as a leader in his own right. His career can take one of two paths from here, I'm hoping it's the one that brings more success to the bay

I absolutely love it when players do this (pretty sure I'd be doing this if I were a player and in their situation). Just take it all in and enforce the motivation even harder in everything you do.

Now Klay on the other hand........Didn't Lebron do that years ago and get crucified for it but Klay does it (not to mention leaving early in Game 6) and I haven't heard anyone talk about it much (definitely from the Warriors side of things)?

mngopher35
06-21-2016, 04:25 PM
About the 3 being his biggest asset: I wouldn't disagree with that and that's why I think the leg injuries are a factor, affecting his mechanics.

Yes, by strategically dominant I mean that his facilitating and outwitting with his ball IQ. Against a championship calibre team who have multiple games to focus down on you, that strategic advantage is neutralized. It sure was in this series. And then, not being able to make the shots he's made for years makes it worse. There's a lot more to it than the facile criticism that he "choked". There always is, whether you're talking about Curry, Lebron or Kobe's finals losses. Always.

Alright I see what you were saying and I can agree with that. I was mixing what you said in with a couple posts above about Curry "only" being a 3 point shooter too. It is right to an extent, but in the same way Lebron is only athletic. That is what makes them all time great compared to just average or whatever players but they still have skills to go along and compliment that so it is somewhat unfair to say that is all they are at the same time. It is just clearly the biggest reason they are who they are.

I can see the injuries and hurting the shot. When I played bball I never really had a serious lower body injury so I can't even try to truly judge how hard that is to play through (not that they are all similar anyways). I know how long it took to mentally get used to tired legs shooting when I was younger so I could see an injury affecting it for sure. It is really hard for me to gauge how hurt he was and how it changed his game so I won't even try that hard until more info is available (if anything ever comes out). I thought he looked great to end the OKC series and was basically back to being healthy but now it is hard to say that's the case for sure.




Totally agree about playing too loose and it's the thing that I've always thought would bite him in the ***. Thing is, it's also what can be so brilliant about him when it works. Better decision making definitely has to be top priority for him next year.



Seconded. Great post.

Ya it leads to some amazing plays but you just can't make some of those passes/shots in the finals game 7 when each possession is so critical (despite having success with it in the RS). This was probably a learning moment for him in that sense so lets see if he adjusts a little. I wouldn't say he needs to stop playing loose, just tighten it up some.

Vee-Rex
06-21-2016, 04:36 PM
I seriously question Curry's BBIQ.

He made several costly mistakes in this series (3.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers.... this is HORRID. HORRID) and he has taken a great number of bad shots (he had been taking those shots all year, but they didn't fall for him as much in the finals).

He constantly put himself in position to get fouls. I mean, it was utterly ridiculous. Game 6 he could've fouled out in the 3rd (and of course Kerr left him in) so many times, and he wouldn't relent.

I get it's a tough moment and being caught in mismatches is tough, but you gotta be smarter than that. You HAVE to, you cannot be reaching in on every play and creating contact when you're in foul trouble early on. The man averaged 35 minutes per game in the finals - that's unacceptable. Some of it due to foul trouble, some of it probably because of endurance (Cavs made it their game-plan to go at him and wear him down).

With all that said, I think he's the 2nd best player in the league. After 20 games earlier this year I called him the best but I think that was a mistake. 2 straight under-performances in the finals (and his general playoff numbers are worse than his regular season numbers) makes me wonder about his game. I feel I can conclude that the more rough, contact-filled defenses in the playoffs wear him down.

FlashBolt
06-21-2016, 05:28 PM
You can't judge LeBron by the regular season anymore. Just look at the defensive presence in the post vs regular season. Safe to say he doesn't really care. Part of that might have to do with how he always dominated the regular season and came up empty in the postseason before he won any rings. It's why I had zero issues with saying Curry was the MVP. He deserved it. Maybe not unanimous but he for sure 100% was deserving of it. But the moment you say best player? I'll take LeBron.

Sportsguy9695
06-21-2016, 05:30 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc.
i agree i cant wait to see how he bounces back from this

IKnowHoops
06-21-2016, 06:14 PM
i don't care about field goal percentage. Give me ts% and ORtg and then we'll see how he stacks up.


5. Michael Jordan, 1996 (won the title in 6)
27.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.0 turnovers per game; 41.5 FG% 53.8ts% 116 ORtg

4. Stephen Curry, 2015 (won the title in 6)
26.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 4.7 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG% 58.5ts% 104 ORtg

3. Karl Malone, 1997 (lost the title in 6)
23.8 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.3 blocks, 2.3 turnovers per game; 44.3 FG% 48.5ts% 102 ORtg

2. Kobe Bryant, 2008 (lost the title in 6)
25.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 2.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.8 turnovers per game; 40.5 FG% 50.5ts%98 ORtg

1. Stephen Curry, 2016 (lost the title in 7)
22.6 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 4.3 turnovers per game; 40.3 FG% 58.0ts% 102 ORtg

Malone's is definitely the worst, followed by Kobe (although CP3 should've won the ring).

What factors contribute to MJ having such a higher ORTG than Curry, when Curry is getting more asst and better TS on only one less point a game?

Shammyguy3
06-21-2016, 06:24 PM
What factors contribute to MJ having such a higher ORTG than Curry, when Curry is getting more asst and better TS on only one less point a game?

Turnover rate offensive boards, and Mj actually had more assists (I'm guessing you just read that wrong?)

zn23
06-21-2016, 08:15 PM
With all that said, I think he's the 2nd best player in the league. After 20 games earlier this year I called him the best but I think that was a mistake. 2 straight under-performances in the finals (and his general playoff numbers are worse than his regular season numbers) makes me wonder about his game. I feel I can conclude that the more rough, contact-filled defenses in the playoffs wear him down.

Russell Westbrook is better.

Blitzbolt
06-21-2016, 08:42 PM
I think Kobe had Tony Allen on him during that Celtics series one of best defenders in the past few years.

Also I think thoss nasty blocks lebron did on curry had a major impact on curry's driving game.

CHANGO
06-21-2016, 09:06 PM
I seriously question Curry's BBIQ.

He made several costly mistakes in this series (3.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers.... this is HORRID. HORRID) and he has taken a great number of bad shots (he had been taking those shots all year, but they didn't fall for him as much in the finals).

He constantly put himself in position to get fouls. I mean, it was utterly ridiculous. Game 6 he could've fouled out in the 3rd (and of course Kerr left him in) so many times, and he wouldn't relent.

I get it's a tough moment and being caught in mismatches is tough, but you gotta be smarter than that. You HAVE to, you cannot be reaching in on every play and creating contact when you're in foul trouble early on. The man averaged 35 minutes per game in the finals - that's unacceptable. Some of it due to foul trouble, some of it probably because of endurance (Cavs made it their game-plan to go at him and wear him down).

With all that said, I think he's the 2nd best player in the league. After 20 games earlier this year I called him the best but I think that was a mistake. 2 straight under-performances in the finals (and his general playoff numbers are worse than his regular season numbers) makes me wonder about his game. I feel I can conclude that the more rough, contact-filled defenses in the playoffs wear him down.

I was questioning the same thing with him all series long and honestly all season long since he became the Curry/best player etc...

But the same can be said about Klay too, I mean, you are running a 3 on 2 fastbreak and you decide to run to the corner and chuck up a three... I honestly think the smartest player on that team (superstar) is Dray.

WaDe03
06-21-2016, 09:42 PM
He was EXPOSED to say the least.

Chronz
06-21-2016, 10:08 PM
Or he just had a bad series?

ink
06-21-2016, 10:28 PM
Or he just had a bad series?

This.

WaDe03
06-21-2016, 10:47 PM
Or he just had a bad series?

His defense and all around game weren't exposed when hey would put him on an island and score on him or he wasn't hitting shots and wasn't effecting games in any other way? He had a bad series yea but his game was exposed.

nastynice
06-21-2016, 10:55 PM
Or he just had a bad series?

He just a shooter tho! 😂😂

nastynice
06-21-2016, 11:00 PM
His defense and all around game weren't exposed when hey would put him on an island and score on him or he wasn't hitting shots and wasn't effecting games in any other way? He had a bad series yea but his game was exposed.

What was the opp fg% against curry?

WaDe03
06-21-2016, 11:24 PM
What was the opp fg% against curry?

Idk but I know I watched them continuously force Curry to switch on LeBron and Kyrie and they would go to work.

europagnpilgrim
06-21-2016, 11:48 PM
I think the force of his 3 is actually his biggest asset not just being strategically dominant (not sure what you mean by that but I take it as high bball IQ). He actually plays a bit too loose for me and makes a decent amount of errors in judgement so I do actually think his bball IQ has room to grow still (that behind the back pass being an obvious example). If you take away that 3 pt ability I think his drive to the rim and playmaking abilities also take a hit as he will get less respect/attention outside from the defense and they can then close everything else off. To me that is his main threat, not physicality or bball IQ even if the latter is good despite what I said, that's not the separator.

This isn't a knock or anything as he is the best 3 pt shooter ever so obviously you use it to your advantage. I don't think Lebron would be as good if he was an average athlete either, same kinda thing. The playmaking/jump shooting looks better when teams have no way of matching up physically on defense and have to overreact (he's generally either bigger/stronger or faster). He is probably a higher IQ player to me than Curry but that too might be affected because athleticism can help make up for smaller mistakes and he is a bit older as well. Either way the 3pt shot and athleticism are what really separate these guys from others, and those traits help amplify their other talents which they are still good at.

Criticizing Curry objectively is fine and this thread didn't take off like I thought. I just don't want another all time great to get continuously bashed for one performance by a large group of "haters". It seems like that won't happen here to the extent I first thought it would.



Curry is the best shooter off the bounce/crossover we have seen on the hardwood, its plenty of guys who could shoot on his level, catch and shoot type easily but not off creating for themselves like Curry can

M Price and Peja and Dirk and Bird and Paxson and R Allen and R Miller and C Person and Kerr and T Legler and Hodges and more can shoot at that same level from long distance

his dad Dell was one of the deadliest purest spot up shooters ever also

I call him Nash 2.0 for a reason

The only players I can think of to do it off the bounce near Curry that I have saw was The Answer/Durant/Mamba, not percentage wise I am speaking on eye test, even a CP3/Lillard/Jordan/Melo type can be added, but its rare and that's why Curry is the best at it since he has the long ball records to prove his case

as for the past couple Finals he just had a bad one this time around since he is accustomed to shooting 50pct from the field and close to it from 3pt land, he shot 10pct points lower in this past Finals, but putting up 26ppg as a PG in 15' Finals is not disappointing at all, if so Jordan really sucked compared to his standards in 96' Finals at 27ppg

Curry wasn't healthy full strength but he was out there and did what he was capable of doing, make or miss league and he missed more than he made, nothing more or less but at least he went down swinging playing his style, a volume 3pt shooter

he wont get critized like Lebron because nothing was expected from Curry like it was for The Chosen One since day 1, Lebron was under microscope since pre NBA(Jordan/Magic comparisons), Curry came out of nowhere like a feel good story

even Magic caught heat and was labeled Tragic Magic, but he still has 5 rings so its not a big deal, take a punch and keep fighting, Curry will have that chance next upcoming season/playoffs

shep33
06-21-2016, 11:58 PM
Celtics defense in 2008 was insane. 4 guys on Kobe lol, and everyone else choked on our squad.

nastynice
06-22-2016, 12:07 AM
Idk but I know I watched them continuously force Curry to switch on LeBron and Kyrie and they would go to work.

They would go to work, they would make some plays, they'd get stopped on some plays. I understand that them going at curry makes you automatically think he's some type of weak link, but you need to understand when opponents are shooting in the low 30's % against him then he is clearly handling his own on that side of the court.

I'm not saying he's a stud defender, but calling him exposed has no basis in reality other than the hype train. The man had a terrible finals, I want to point that out so that you don't think I'm just defending him cuz he's my boy, I'm not, I'm defending him because calling him a defensive liability is simply false

chipurmunki
06-22-2016, 03:54 AM
No **it Sherlock. They play every team at least twice a year.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2016, 04:06 AM
It will just make his redemption that much sweeter. We love to prop guys up, laugh when the fall, and then see if they can get back up. If they do, we adore them more than before they fell. Steph will be just fine

More-Than-Most
06-22-2016, 05:59 AM
Or he just had a bad series?

A bit of both.. More so just a bad series but if teams had the defensive depth the cavs have or at least close they could follow suit.... It did expose him....They forced him to defend and he clearly couldnt deal with it and it took its toll on him offensively as well. He will go back to being curry but its something other teams should at least try.... Attack curry as much as possible and see if he learns

If people want to say he got exposed defensively and mentality collapsed there is truth to it but offensively when they start saying he is just a 3 point shooter is where I laugh... He is the best offensive player in basketball but his defense is garbage and the pressure got to him and made him force alot of dumb shots that go in a good bit but they went completely away from their game plan often.... He let James and kyrie get in his head.... Example kyrie hitting the game winning 3.... curry comes down and tries to hero ball it and goes completely away from the offense and fails miserably.... He got exposed but not the way people seem to think.

Its not going to do much to him overall because not many teams have the defensive depth and can offensively gameplan to attack him... In fact the thunder/cavs/clippers might be the only 3 teams who could offensively game plan to attack him and expose his defense and guard him like the cavs did. Spurs defensively could but not offensively in my opinion

PhillyFaninLA
06-22-2016, 06:11 AM
Here are my thoughts, Curry has proven to be an incredible shooter, he gets off shots no one should be able to.

In the both of his finals appearances he went from great to above average.

Is Curry a lethal shooter and a dangerous player, without question, has he shown he can do it in the finals, not in either of his 2 appearances.

PhillyFaninLA
06-22-2016, 06:19 AM
Where's Allen Iverson on this list :laugh2:


35 points per game, 5.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.8 steals

You have not idea just how good Iverson was. A lot of people on this site seem to have no concept of how great Iverson was, how many injuries he was always playing through, they just think its funny to use him as a punchline and not actually understand what type of player he was.

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 09:48 AM
35 points per game, 5.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.8 steals

You have not idea just how good Iverson was. A lot of people on this site seem to have no concept of how great Iverson was, how many injuries he was always playing through, they just think its funny to use him as a punchline and not actually understand what type of player he was.

Those are terrible numbers for someone who played 47 minutes per game and shot 40%.

PhillyFaninLA
06-22-2016, 09:54 AM
Those are terrible numbers for someone who played 47 minutes per game and shot 40%.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216643-the-25-greatest-nba-finals-performances-of-the-last-25-years/page/4


I'm not sure you actually ever watched Iverson play. I'm confident you didn't watch that team that year. I'm confident you base your views on stats and not actually understanding a team, a player, or a situation.

Its easy to hide behind stats. if you watched Iverson and those Sixers you wouldn't call his numbers terrible. Iverson was a warrior and that team shouldn't have made the finals, let alone steal a game from the Lakers team.

WaDe03
06-22-2016, 10:03 AM
They would go to work, they would make some plays, they'd get stopped on some plays. I understand that them going at curry makes you automatically think he's some type of weak link, but you need to understand when opponents are shooting in the low 30's % against him then he is clearly handling his own on that side of the court.

I'm not saying he's a stud defender, but calling him exposed has no basis in reality other than the hype train. The man had a terrible finals, I want to point that out so that you don't think I'm just defending him cuz he's my boy, I'm not, I'm defending him because calling him a defensive liability is simply false

Was it the low 30s in the finals or are you talking about for the year? Regardless he guards the worst perimeter player on every team so it isn't saying much and I'm pretty confident their shooting percentage has more to do with the Warriors team defense than it does Currys defense. I see the same thing every game with Dragic except he tries to actually guard the opposing PGs. Our team defense is really good so it makes him look better defensively than he is whenever he is really a liability like Curry.

cmellofan15
06-22-2016, 10:10 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216643-the-25-greatest-nba-finals-performances-of-the-last-25-years/page/4


I'm not sure you actually ever watched Iverson play. I'm confident you didn't watch that team that year. I'm confident you base your views on stats and not actually understanding a team, a player, or a situation.

Its easy to hide behind stats. if you watched Iverson and those Sixers you wouldn't call his numbers terrible. Iverson was a warrior and that team shouldn't have made the finals, let alone steal a game from the Lakers team.

lmao. it's funny because in the same breath someone will defend Lebron's finals series last year simply because they saw one and not the other.

Chronz
06-22-2016, 10:26 AM
Those are terrible numbers for someone who played 47 minutes per game and shot 40%.

Terrible is a gross exaggeration

Hawkeye15
06-22-2016, 11:01 AM
Those are terrible numbers for someone who played 47 minutes per game and shot 40%.

not when you factor in he carried a similar offensive load that LeBron did in last years finals. The Lakers defense was all over him, and he was still able to produce. I am a hardcore advocate against AI usually, because I think he is overrated by the masses. But he was good in that series.

FlashBolt
06-22-2016, 11:30 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216643-the-25-greatest-nba-finals-performances-of-the-last-25-years/page/4


I'm not sure you actually ever watched Iverson play. I'm confident you didn't watch that team that year. I'm confident you base your views on stats and not actually understanding a team, a player, or a situation.

Its easy to hide behind stats. if you watched Iverson and those Sixers you wouldn't call his numbers terrible. Iverson was a warrior and that team shouldn't have made the finals, let alone steal a game from the Lakers team.


You. Are. The. One. Who. Brought. Stats. Up. To. This. I'm simply stating that those are terrible numbers.

Terrible is a gross exaggeration

PER36, his numbers are 26/3.5/2. He played 48 minutes and shot 32 shots per game.


not when you factor in he carried a similar offensive load that LeBron did in last years finals. The Lakers defense was all over him, and he was still able to produce. I am a hardcore advocate against AI usually, because I think he is overrated by the masses. But he was good in that series.

Those are terrible numbers. I get that he was the only one on his team capable of scoring but those are just terrible numbers.

Hawkeye15
06-22-2016, 11:57 AM
You. Are. The. One. Who. Brought. Stats. Up. To. This. I'm simply stating that those are terrible numbers.


PER36, his numbers are 26/3.5/2. He played 48 minutes and shot 32 shots per game.



Those are terrible numbers. I get that he was the only one on his team capable of scoring but those are just terrible numbers.

They are far from terrible. He was good in that series, when you factor in context. His game score of 20.7 was higher than Kobe's for instance.

yibhnu
06-22-2016, 12:04 PM
Maybe he didn't pray hard enough and thank God hard enough after every make.http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/6.gif
http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/4.gif http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/13.gif

DR_1
06-22-2016, 02:50 PM
I hope the Curry hate doesn't go overboard now. Yes it was a bad series but he is still a great player, he might have even been injured. In just the stats posted I can basically guarantee if you factor in 3 pt shots into the fg% his wasn't the worst so that's a little unfair. It was a bad series for him no doubt but I am more interested in what he does next than harping on one poor performance to call him horrible/overrated etc.
This. I'm not a Warriors fan but I really like Steph. He seems a great person and I love watching him play. Hope he rests and recovers so he can be back at his peak form next season.