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mrblisterdundee
06-08-2016, 04:35 PM
Jonathan Tjarks from The Ringer had a good piece about how Kevin Love needs out of Cleveland to resuscitate his career (https://theringer.com/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-247956d0fcde#.q9vqntud9). He recommends the Knicks swap Carmelo Anthony for Love, saying Carmelo would be a good attacking combo forward next to LeBron, while Love fits the Triangle next to the versatile Kristaps Porzingis. Then there's this interesting passage:


The irony of his situation is that after failing to successfully build around him in the first six years of his career, the Wolves now have Loveís ideal frontcourt partner in this seasonís rookie of the year. Towns couldíve covered for Love on defense as the pair formed the most versatile offensive frontcourt duo in the NBA. But the Wolves have moved on; Love needs what Minnesota now has more than it needs what heís got left.

mrblisterdundee
06-08-2016, 04:41 PM
I think Kevin Love could also work in Utah next to Rudy Gobert. The Jazz lack playmaking and any range in their front court, both of which Love would provide. Favors would have to be traded, and the Cavaliers don't really need him. But it might be worth the Cavs and Jazz looking into a three-team trade, maybe with the Knicks or Hawks.

Vee-Rex
06-08-2016, 04:43 PM
As a Cavs fan I'd absolutely love Favors in place of Love.

Bostonjorge
06-08-2016, 04:47 PM
Trade love for kanter. Kanter gives James a offensive post weapon and great rebounder. Love in Okc will be a perfect fit. The third scorer they need and more importantly a floor spacer.

ewing
06-08-2016, 04:51 PM
Kevin Love works right now. Clev is not the ideal place for him but this notion that he sucks in Clev is BS. He played pretty well in game 1 and it was a game in game 2 until he got his bell rung so that one isn't his fault either. The amount of hate love is getting is directly correlated to the amount of excuses people make for James. Could he be more then a 16 and 10 guys without James? I think so. Bosh #s were limited by sharing a front court with LBJ too but it doesn't mean either guy is bad. Love is an excellent starting PF in Clev. just like Bosh was an excellent starting PF for the Heat

42-15-7
06-08-2016, 05:06 PM
If Cleveland wants to move Love, I don't see how anyone steps up to take Love at his current salary.

What I don't know is whether Cleveland eat some of his salary in order to make him attractive to other teams. If they can, I can see a deal happening. If not, I don't know how they move Love as damaged as he looks right now.

(I can see Love being a valuable piece, but not with LeBron and the way Kyrie plays. He needs great defenders around him, and more-predictable open looks from the arc off set plays. Too many of the 3's he gets with Cleveland are bail-outs when LeBron or Kyrie had pounded the rock until the shot clock becomes an issue.)

eDush
06-08-2016, 05:23 PM
Kevin Love works right now. Clev is not the ideal place for him but this notion that he sucks in Clev is BS. He played pretty well in game 1 and it was a game in game 2 until he got his bell rung so that one isn't his fault either. The amount of hate love is getting is directly correlated to the amount of excuses people make for James. Could he be more then a 16 and 10 guys without James? I think so. Bosh #s were limited by sharing a front court with LBJ too but it doesn't mean either guy is bad. Love is an excellent starting PF in Clev. just like Bosh was an excellent starting PF for the Heat
Like the excuses you make for Sixers players calling them top 10 in the league but can't figure out why they only won 10 games this season :laugh2:

nycericanguy
06-08-2016, 05:31 PM
If Cleveland wants to move Love, I don't see how anyone steps up to take Love at his current salary.

What I don't know is whether Cleveland eat some of his salary in order to make him attractive to other teams. If they can, I can see a deal happening. If not, I don't know how they move Love as damaged as he looks right now.

(I can see Love being a valuable piece, but not with LeBron and the way Kyrie plays. He needs great defenders around him, and more-predictable open looks from the arc off set plays. Too many of the 3's he gets with Cleveland are bail-outs when LeBron or Kyrie had pounded the rock until the shot clock becomes an issue.)

you kidding me? He has what, 4 years 85m left? That's a STEAL this day and age. Just about any average player is going to get 15-25m going forward.

Love has gone from overrated (he was never a top 5 player like some on here used to say) to underrated. Like someone else said, Bosh's numbers went to 16 & 7 playing with Lebron. Love has been relegated to spot up shooter in CLE with almost half his shots being spot up 3's now. He's better than that, I would consider Melo for Love because Love is younger and i think he can still put up 20/13/4 IMO and few players can do that.

Saddletramp
06-08-2016, 05:31 PM
Love and JR for Dwight. The Rockets won't be playing defense anytime soon, anyway.

ewing
06-08-2016, 05:45 PM
Like the excuses you make for Sixers players calling them top 10 in the league but can't figure out why they only won 10 games this season :laugh2:


I am not sure if you are serious. i was mocking how sixers fans were overrating there guys when i said that.

eDush
06-08-2016, 05:55 PM
Love and JR for Dwight. The Rockets won't be playing defense anytime soon, anyway.
Yes, the same Dwight who can't handle playing with Kobe and Harden would go play for Lebron besides the fact he is a UFA :laugh:. I'm gonna assume you are joking this time around since you can't that big of a ...never mind.

eDush
06-08-2016, 05:57 PM
Like the excuses you make for Sixers players calling them top 10 in the league but can't figure out why they only won 10 games this season :laugh2:


I am not sure if you are serious. i was mocking how sixers fans were overrating there guys when i said that.
Sorry my bad...I am not good at picking up mocking but I am good at picking up sarcasm so go figure :(

IndyRealist
06-08-2016, 05:58 PM
If Cleveland wants to move Love, I don't see how anyone steps up to take Love at his current salary.

What I don't know is whether Cleveland eat some of his salary in order to make him attractive to other teams. If they can, I can see a deal happening. If not, I don't know how they move Love as damaged as he looks right now.

(I can see Love being a valuable piece, but not with LeBron and the way Kyrie plays. He needs great defenders around him, and more-predictable open looks from the arc off set plays. Too many of the 3's he gets with Cleveland are bail-outs when LeBron or Kyrie had pounded the rock until the shot clock becomes an issue.)

In a salary dump, the Pacers would take Love in a heartbeat for a 1st pick and a player or two not named George or Turner. He's better than anyone the Pacers are going to sign in free agency, and would play well next to Myles.

eDush
06-08-2016, 06:07 PM
If Cleveland wants to move Love, I don't see how anyone steps up to take Love at his current salary.

What I don't know is whether Cleveland eat some of his salary in order to make him attractive to other teams. If they can, I can see a deal happening. If not, I don't know how they move Love as damaged as he looks right now.

(I can see Love being a valuable piece, but not with LeBron and the way Kyrie plays. He needs great defenders around him, and more-predictable open looks from the arc off set plays. Too many of the 3's he gets with Cleveland are bail-outs when LeBron or Kyrie had pounded the rock until the shot clock becomes an issue.)

In a salary dump, the Pacers would take Love in a heartbeat for a 1st pick and a player or two not named George or Turner. He's better than anyone the Pacers are going to sign in free agency, and would play well next to Myles.
If they are interested, I think the Cavs would take Ian Mahinmi and George Hill. They would not want any part of Monta if they value defense otherwise he would make Kyrie look like a lock up defender in the back court. With Hill, they can slide Kyrie as a 2 guard on the slot. With a first round pick on top, this can get this done :nod:

42-15-7
06-08-2016, 06:38 PM
you kidding me? He has what, 4 years 85m left? That's a STEAL this day and age. Just about any average player is going to get 15-25m going forward.

Love has gone from overrated (he was never a top 5 player like some on here used to say) to underrated. Like someone else said, Bosh's numbers went to 16 & 7 playing with Lebron. Love has been relegated to spot up shooter in CLE with almost half his shots being spot up 3's now. He's better than that, I would consider Melo for Love because Love is younger and i think he can still put up 20/13/4 IMO and few players can do that.

I agree that with the new cap/max money Love's contract will look better. I also think his numbers will improve once he's away from LeBron.

But I also think Love has been exposed in ways that he wasn't before, from his defense to his offense, and that it's going to be hard for teams to justify giving him a ton of money AND all the touches necessary to re-inflate his stat line.

Maybe a team that's looking to run during the regular season and has no expectations of competing for a ring would be willing to take him. (And of course Boston would probably take him because of his skin color.)

42-15-7
06-08-2016, 06:40 PM
In a salary dump, the Pacers would take Love in a heartbeat for a 1st pick and a player or two not named George or Turner. He's better than anyone the Pacers are going to sign in free agency, and would play well next to Myles.

I could see Bird doing that. He's blown up the Pacers and gone back to square one, but he's also on the clock with Paul George. That team needs assets to get in line to compete in the East whenever the Cavs really fade.

But I don't know if the Pacers actually have the assets to pull that off. Particularly if a third party wanted Love just as badly.

kingkenny01
06-08-2016, 07:02 PM
I personally think LBJ should be playing PF, so if they could trade love for butler that seems fairish

Vinylman
06-08-2016, 07:04 PM
If they are interested, I think the Cavs would take Ian Mahinmi and George Hill. They would not want any part of Monta if they value defense otherwise he would make Kyrie look like a lock up defender in the back court. With Hill, they can slide Kyrie as a 2 guard on the slot. With a first round pick on top, this can get this done :nod:

you just ripped a guy for including an UFA in a trade scenario and not 10 minutes later you do the same thing...


SMFH

Vincent
06-08-2016, 07:14 PM
I wonder if Danny Ainge is still super interested in dealing for Love.

I think he'd put up big numbers again in Boston, and the Cavs could use a three and D players like Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley.

eDush
06-08-2016, 07:34 PM
If they are interested, I think the Cavs would take Ian Mahinmi and George Hill. They would not want any part of Monta if they value defense otherwise he would make Kyrie look like a lock up defender in the back court. With Hill, they can slide Kyrie as a 2 guard on the slot. With a first round pick on top, this can get this done :nod:

you just ripped a guy for including an UFA in a trade scenario and not 10 minutes later you do the same thing...


SMFH

DOH!!!! ....hardly anyone knew Ian is a UFA but everyone knew Dwight is this offseason and the fact that he hates playing with any player who pushes him to be dominate would somehow not mind Lebron doing it cause living in Cleveland is so much better right?

FWIW, I did know both of the other Hills (Jordan and Solomon) are UFA but are still stuck with Monta :laugh2:

ewing
06-08-2016, 07:41 PM
I agree that with the new cap/max money Love's contract will look better. I also think his numbers will improve once he's away from LeBron.

But I also think Love has been exposed in ways that he wasn't before, from his defense to his offense, and that it's going to be hard for teams to justify giving him a ton of money AND all the touches necessary to re-inflate his stat line.

Maybe a team that's looking to run during the regular season and has no expectations of competing for a ring would be willing to take him. (And of course Boston would probably take him because of his skin color.)


He is getting 16 and 10 while playing 3 banana with a guy that takes up a lot of his space on the floor. His stat line may have been a little inflated on a bad Minn team but i don't think he needs much other then mins to put up numbers. He probably should be paired with some long athletic front court mates but i think so long as you do that Love is a big time asset.

5ass
06-08-2016, 07:45 PM
I'd send him to Sacramento. Let him play with Cousins and form a great offensive front court. Both can stretch the floor so you basically just need defenders around them.
Kings receive Love
Cavs receive Cauley-Stein

The problem is the Cavs still have another PF making huge money and its hard as **** trying to find a good front court partner for Thompson. WCS and Thompson means you have no spacing between them. Maybe send WCS to the Magic and send Vucevic to the Cavs? At least he can stretch the floor.

Or just trade him to the suns for Chandler and Bledsoe

Saddletramp
06-08-2016, 07:55 PM
you just ripped a guy for including an UFA in a trade scenario and not 10 minutes later you do the same thing...


SMFH

I didn't see where he said that..... Thanks for pointing it out. Let's me do this......


Yes, the same Dwight who can't handle playing with Kobe and Harden would go play for Lebron besides the fact he is a UFA :laugh:. I'm gonna assume you are joking this time around since you can't that big of a ...never mind.

Dwight has a player option he hasn't turned down yet (he probably will but he hasn't yet). I'm gonna assume you are joking this time around since you can't be that big of a...never mind.

:laugh: x20 billion, yo

Saddletramp
06-08-2016, 07:58 PM
DOH!!!! ....hardly anyone knew Ian is a UFA but everyone knew Dwight is this offseason and the fact that he hates playing with any player who pushes him to be dominate would somehow not mind Lebron doing it cause living in Cleveland is so much better right?

FWIW, I did know both of the other Hills (Jordan and Solomon) are UFA but are still stuck with Monta :laugh2:

x40 billion

ewing
06-08-2016, 08:01 PM
I'd send him to Sacramento. Let him play with Cousins and form a great offensive front court. Both can stretch the floor so you basically just need defenders around them.
Kings receive Love
Cavs receive Cauley-Stein

The problem is the Cavs still have another PF making huge money and its hard as **** trying to find a good front court partner for Thompson. WCS and Thompson means you have no spacing between them. Maybe send WCS to the Magic and send Vucevic to the Cavs? At least he can stretch the floor.

Or just trade him to the suns for Chandler and Bledsoe


that sound terrible. I'm actually sold on him in Indy. George and Miles put great length and athleticism around him. I think that front court is the ****.

numba1CHANGsta
06-08-2016, 08:16 PM
Irving+Love for CP3+BG makes the most sense for both teams since LeBron would have his buddy CP3 and a legit big man in BG and the Clippers would have a young replacement at PG and a solid PF in Love.

5ass
06-08-2016, 08:38 PM
that sound terrible. I'm actually sold on him in Indy. George and Miles put great length and athleticism around him. I think that front court is the ****.

What can the Pacers give up to entice the Cavs? Hill isn't going to cut it IMO. I think the Cavs will get better offers. Which trade is terrible? Bledsoe and Chandler gives them defense. Vucevic gives them inside scoring and on paper a good fit with Thompson.

I think the suns trade works for both teams. Chandler and Thompson don't play heavy minutes so they shouldn't see the court together more than 4-5 mpg. Frye can play with both while LeBron plays some minutes at PF as well. That's a nice front court rotation. Very diverse. Bledsoe gives them another really good perimeter defender and replaces JR Smith's dumbass.

mavwar53
06-08-2016, 08:39 PM
Love is so weak, he's David lee with an outside shot.

ewing
06-08-2016, 08:56 PM
What can the Pacers give up to entice the Cavs? Hill isn't going to cut it IMO. I think the Cavs will get better offers. Which trade is terrible? Bledsoe and Chandler gives them defense. Vucevic gives them inside scoring and on paper a good fit with Thompson.

I think the suns trade works for both teams. Chandler and Thompson don't play heavy minutes so they shouldn't see the court together more than 4-5 mpg. Frye can play with both while LeBron plays some minutes at PF as well. That's a nice front court rotation. Very diverse. Bledsoe gives them another really good perimeter defender and replaces JR Smith's dumbass.

The Sac front front court you mention seems like a bad fit to me. Love and Cousins are both flat footed, play in similar spaces, and don't switch out out well. It honestly sounds like a disaster of a front court to me. I honestly didn't even think about weather the Pacers could get it done, just think it sounds like a very good for love.

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2016, 08:56 PM
Love is an amazing player. People can knock his D, and with good reason, but every other part of his game is solid. If he were playing with Chris Paul, he'd look like a stud.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-08-2016, 08:58 PM
Yes. I offer Valanciunas and Ross for Kevin Love.

mrblisterdundee
06-08-2016, 10:05 PM
In a salary dump, the Pacers would take Love in a heartbeat for a 1st pick and a player or two not named George or Turner. He's better than anyone the Pacers are going to sign in free agency, and would play well next to Myles.

I didn't think about that, but the Pacers have at least three high-quality defenders to place around Kevin Love in the starting lineup alone. The ball movement with him, Paul George, Monta Ellis and either George Hill and Ty Lawson would be great.

Edit: There's no way the Cavaliers are giving the Pacers Love without Myles Turner coming back.

mrblisterdundee
06-08-2016, 10:20 PM
Yes. I offer Valanciunas and Ross for Kevin Love.

That sounds pretty good, if Bismack Biyombo is for real. But I still think Jonas Valanciunas is a safer bet.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-08-2016, 10:22 PM
That sounds pretty good, if Bismack Biyombo is for real. But I still think Jonas Valanciunas is a safer bet.

I like JV but Love in an all star player. Bismack and Love fit perfectly together. Bismack-Love-Carroll-Demar-Lowry.

Yanks All Day
06-09-2016, 12:27 AM
Quite honestly, the idea of Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love sounds perfect. LeBron gets his guy who would be an absolute machine playing the 4 in Cleveland and New York gets a viable building block (he's 5 years younger than Melo). NYK aren't winning any time soon, so Kevin Love's prime lasting a bit longer fits much better in New York.

Not sure how that money works, but the premise makes 100% sense for both sides.

shep33
06-09-2016, 12:50 AM
Melo for Love. Make it happen

naps
06-09-2016, 01:20 AM
Melo for Love makes a ton of sense for both sides.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2016, 11:12 AM
Kevin Love works right now. Clev is not the ideal place for him but this notion that he sucks in Clev is BS. He played pretty well in game 1 and it was a game in game 2 until he got his bell rung so that one isn't his fault either. The amount of hate love is getting is directly correlated to the amount of excuses people make for James. Could he be more then a 16 and 10 guys without James? I think so. Bosh #s were limited by sharing a front court with LBJ too but it doesn't mean either guy is bad. Love is an excellent starting PF in Clev. just like Bosh was an excellent starting PF for the Heat

Love is not in the right spot in Cleveland. You continue to push your anti-LeBron agenda any chance you get. This is not the same Love Minnesota had, not even close.

Love is underutilized offensively, big time. He also doesn't have the mental makeup of a guy like Bosh, who swallowed his own pride, and bought into a role. Love is not Bosh, because he can't defend. So because of LeBron's absolute need to control every aspect of his team, Love is not the right fit when you consider the money they are paying, and the role they are asking of him.

If you are not going to run the ball through Love, and let him punish players in the box, and get going through the flow of the game, instead putting him in the corner and telling him to stand there and wait for the occasional corner 3, and maybe give him 3-4 post looks a game, you are better off finding a different PF that costs less money and can play defense.

Love wants to play for a winner, but doesn't have the mental makeup to accept the fact that he needs to slide into a role. He also is a poor PnR defender, which matters deep in the playoffs, where coaches and players are better, and get 7 games to pinpoint and exploit weaknesses.

Tony_Starks
06-09-2016, 11:27 AM
I don't think Love needs to go but when they lose he will definitely be the fall guy. Can't blame Kyrie he's ballin, put the team on his back to start that must win. Love is the only one left.

I hope he does get shipped, better for him. But it's not deserved. You knew what he was when you traded for him.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2016, 11:37 AM
I don't think Love needs to go but when they lose he will definitely be the fall guy. Can't blame Kyrie he's ballin, put the team on his back to start that must win. Love is the only one left.

I hope he does get shipped, better for him. But it's not deserved. You knew what he was when you traded for him.

Kyrie had a great game 3 offensively, but he wasn't in the first 2 games, and has sucked defensively all series. It would be on the entire Cleveland roster if they lose, from top to bottom. All of them stunk in the first 2 games.

Yeah, we did know what he was. I am not sure we knew he would be underutilized so badly on offense, or maybe I should also say, we didn't know he had the mental makeup of a 13 year old girl. Thinking back, it showed in Minnesota, I just didn't recognize his pouting as something that would turn him into what he is.

smith&wesson
06-09-2016, 11:45 AM
K Love would actualy work really well in Toronto next to Bizmack Biyombo. The raps could offer Jonas, + Ross + the 9th pick in the draft.

Lowry
Derozan
Carroll
Love
Biyombo

smith&wesson
06-09-2016, 11:48 AM
Love is not in the right spot in Cleveland. You continue to push your anti-LeBron agenda any chance you get. This is not the same Love Minnesota had, not even close.

Love is underutilized offensively, big time. He also doesn't have the mental makeup of a guy like Bosh, who swallowed his own pride, and bought into a role. Love is not Bosh, because he can't defend. So because of LeBron's absolute need to control every aspect of his team, Love is not the right fit when you consider the money they are paying, and the role they are asking of him.

If you are not going to run the ball through Love, and let him punish players in the box, and get going through the flow of the game, instead putting him in the corner and telling him to stand there and wait for the occasional corner 3, and maybe give him 3-4 post looks a game, you are better off finding a different PF that costs less money and can play defense.

Love wants to play for a winner, but doesn't have the mental makeup to accept the fact that he needs to slide into a role. He also is a poor PnR defender, which matters deep in the playoffs, where coaches and players are better, and get 7 games to pinpoint and exploit weaknesses.

He could have the best of both worlds in Toronto. He would be playing for a playoff contender, and also would be one of our main go to options considering both our best players are in the back court in Lowry and Derozan. We desperately need a big to balance out our front and back court. The fit seems perfect for Love.

However, I don't think the Cavs would trade him to a team they may face again in the ECF's in the near future.

FlashBolt
06-09-2016, 11:50 AM
The honest truth is that some players are just not winners. I hate to say it but it's true.

nycericanguy
06-09-2016, 11:51 AM
CLE would have no use for Jval or Ross really. They already have TT at C and Shump/JR at SG.

But I proposed this idea...

NY - Jval, Ross, #9 pick.

CLE - Melo, JC

TOR - Love, O'quinn

Knicks probably wouldn't have use for Jval either with KP & Lopez already there, but they could turn around and flip Jval for a legit backcourt player.

nycericanguy
06-09-2016, 11:52 AM
I also wonder if all the weight loss has hurt Love's game... in MIN he was a big bulky guy, now he's built like a SF.

shep33
06-09-2016, 11:58 AM
Ryan Anderson would give them the same production for half the price. But they can't sign Rhino.

Love for Melo... Do it.

SensandRaps
06-09-2016, 11:59 AM
CLE would have no use for Jval or Ross really. They already have TT at C and Shump/JR at SG.

But I proposed this idea...

NY - Jval, Ross, #9 pick.

CLE - Melo, JC

TOR - Love, O'quinn

Knicks probably wouldn't have use for Jval either with KP & Lopez already there, but they could turn around and flip Jval for a legit backcourt player.

so the raps add a top 10 pick into a proposal for Kyle O'Quinn the same Oquinn whose 5 ppg and 4 rpg are otherworldly so it must be worth a top 10 pick... come on

Tony_Starks
06-09-2016, 12:03 PM
Love can actually still help Cleveland, to ship him out is a total overreaction. He didn't suddenly stop being a allstar, still one of the top 10 bigs in the game easy.

It's just every series isn't for every player.

Does anyone remember how Draymond looked last series? He was awful. Bogut got benched the last Finals and I'm betting will get benched again this time. Doesn't mean he isn't still vital to the team.

Again it's all match ups, doesn't mean you panic.

nycericanguy
06-09-2016, 12:03 PM
so the raps add a top 10 pick into a proposal for Kyle O'Quinn the same Oquinn whose 5 ppg and 4 rpg are otherworldly so it must be worth a top 10 pick... come on

to what proposal? There hasn't been any official proposal...lol. just fan made trades.

Don't think Ross & Jval alone are worth Melo to NY, Ross kinda sucks and NY already has two centers, hence adding the pick.

Chronz
06-09-2016, 12:06 PM
Hes definitely not the player he once was and hes still helping Cleveland but its time to realize that Bron is a full time 4 now. Dont think the 2 can really coexist fully anymore, Bron lacking the blow bye speed he used to has made switching their picks too easy.

SensandRaps
06-09-2016, 12:09 PM
to what proposal? There hasn't been any official proposal...lol. just fan made trades.

Don't think Ross & Jval alone are worth Melo to NY, Ross kinda sucks and NY already has two centers, hence adding the pick.

its fan made trades sure but it went from something decent to forcing NY into the equation and raps getting bent over to add in O'Quinn

Raps can offer up some combo of Val/Ross/9th to cleveland for love if need be and if cleveland says no raps would move elsewhere not beg to get bent over, especially with masai as gm. Side note I really hope we stay away from love

FlashBolt
06-09-2016, 12:17 PM
Love had a terrible regular season. He had has an even worse post season. Sorry, he's gone. Win or lose, it doesn't take a genius to see he doesn't fit the Cavs. The intensity isn't there, he is more concerned about making LeBron his friend than playing like a basketball player, he can't defend.. when was the last time this guy jumped up to contest a shot? He just sticks his hands up and because he's not that big and rather soft, every player attacks him as soon as they get the chance. I have no idea how this guy ever averaged that many rebounds because he just freaking sucks right now. If I'm Cleveland, I'd start Mosgov or put LeBron in PF for the rest of the game. LeBron actually plays physical and is probably the third tallest guy on the floor. Draymond just bullies Love like a child.. it's embarrassing.

nycericanguy
06-09-2016, 12:22 PM
its fan made trades sure but it went from something decent to forcing NY into the equation and raps getting bent over to add in O'Quinn

Raps can offer up some combo of Val/Ross/9th to cleveland for love if need be and if cleveland says no raps would move elsewhere not beg to get bent over, especially with masai as gm. Side note I really hope we stay away from love

not forcing NY into it, I doubt CLE would be interested in Jval or Ross...but they sure would be interested in Melo...Jval isn't enough for Melo, nor does NY need him. I think TOR needs Love more than Knicks or CLE need Jval. hence my proposal...

FOXHOUND
06-09-2016, 12:44 PM
Love doesn't need to be "saved", just needs to go somewhere where he can be a top 2 high usage offensive weapon which is the only way he can make a big impact. He doesn't fit Cleveland and what LeBron needs from a stretch big. Channing Frye has pretty much equaled what Love does for them, at times.

Asking Love to be a floor spacer, rebounder and defender is just grossly misusing his skill set. He needs to be with a top defensive C and needs to have free reign to be the offensive force that he is. It's like people think just anyone can put up 26 PPG and 4.4 APG as a PF if they're on a bad team lol.

The T-Wolves were ranked 9th in Orating and 12 in Drating that season and they had that limited talent with big injuries on top of it. They also went from a 40-win team to a 16-win team, again something people like to ignore when trashing Love. Building around Love or with him as a 2nd piece is far from impossible.

FlashBolt
06-09-2016, 12:58 PM
Love doesn't need to be "saved", just needs to go somewhere where he can be a top 2 high usage offensive weapon which is the only way he can make a big impact. He doesn't fit Cleveland and what LeBron needs from a stretch big. Channing Frye has pretty much equaled what Love does for them, at times.

Asking Love to be a floor spacer, rebounder and defender is just grossly misusing his skill set. He needs to be with a top defensive C and needs to have free reign to be the offensive force that he is. It's like people think just anyone can put up 26 PPG and 4.4 APG as a PF if they're on a bad team lol.

The T-Wolves were ranked 9th in Orating and 12 in Drating that season and they had that limited talent with big injuries on top of it. They also went from a 40-win team to a 16-win team, again something people like to ignore when trashing Love. Building around Love or with him as a 2nd piece is far from impossible.

It is far from impossible. The difference we're talking about is championship contender. Love can make the playoffs all he wants but there is no way you can say he can lead a team to a championship with him being the second option. There are much too many holes in his game. Use Chris Bosh as an example. I thought Love would be a better supporting PF for Bron than Bosh because he can rebound the ball -- something Bosh couldn't do. That's a huge mistake. Bosh adjusted well to LeBron and made the fit work and vice-versa. Bosh knew his role in the game fairly quick. He knew he had to play defense so he drastically increased his production on that end. He was very efficient for the Heat and he made the shots when he got the pass. With Love, I feel that the Cavs have to forcefeed him the ball to get him going. That's never a good sign and Love tends to always miss a bunch of them. 40% from the field for the entire season is terrible for a PF. The issue with Love is he lost his post game, he can't shoot with confidence, and he doesn't seem like he enjoys playing for the Cavs. It's safe to say he can play for any other team and probably make the playoffs as the second option but who the hell cares? He'll just be a good player.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2016, 01:24 PM
Love can actually still help Cleveland, to ship him out is a total overreaction. He didn't suddenly stop being a allstar, still one of the top 10 bigs in the game easy.

It's just every series isn't for every player.

Does anyone remember how Draymond looked last series? He was awful. Bogut got benched the last Finals and I'm betting will get benched again this time. Doesn't mean he isn't still vital to the team.

Again it's all match ups, doesn't mean you panic.

you say that, but are also one that says Love is an all star so LeBron gets no pass. Lovw WAS a top PF. He isn't whilr next to LeBron. It's all about what guys do in the current uniforms, consistently. And Love, consistently, is not an all star level player for the Cavs. That isn't all his fault, he just isn't a fit with LeBron at this stage of LeBron's career.

Love, mentally, wants his numbers, wants to have the action go through him, and wants to win. That can't all happen, because he is not good enough to be a #1 option, and it seems he isn't pleased with being a #3 option alongside 2 ball dominators. He isn't mentally tough enough to swallow his pride and night in, night out, do the other things better than he always sucked at when he was a high usage offensive player.

FOXHOUND
06-09-2016, 02:07 PM
It is far from impossible. The difference we're talking about is championship contender. Love can make the playoffs all he wants but there is no way you can say he can lead a team to a championship with him being the second option. There are much too many holes in his game. Use Chris Bosh as an example. I thought Love would be a better supporting PF for Bron than Bosh because he can rebound the ball -- something Bosh couldn't do. That's a huge mistake. Bosh adjusted well to LeBron and made the fit work and vice-versa. Bosh knew his role in the game fairly quick. He knew he had to play defense so he drastically increased his production on that end. He was very efficient for the Heat and he made the shots when he got the pass. With Love, I feel that the Cavs have to forcefeed him the ball to get him going. That's never a good sign and Love tends to always miss a bunch of them. 40% from the field for the entire season is terrible for a PF. The issue with Love is he lost his post game, he can't shoot with confidence, and he doesn't seem like he enjoys playing for the Cavs. It's safe to say he can play for any other team and probably make the playoffs as the second option but who the hell cares? He'll just be a good player.

Sure, maybe he can't be the top option on a champ team. Then again, how exactly is it fair to judge that when all he had before Cleveland were those ****** Wolves teams?

Love was never going to fit as good as Bosh because of Bosh's underrated and under appreciated defense in Miami. This guy became THE BEST P&R defending big in the NBA, and all LeBronies wanted to do was trash him and blame him whenever they failed. Love doesn't have the tools or skillset to ever be a strong defender, that move was doomed from the start.

I look at Love and I think of Paul Pierce. Very good offensive player with scoring and passing, maybe not as efficient as you'd like to see, not very athletic and not a good defender. Yet, Paul Pierce is a Finals MVP. Love needs his "Kevin Garnett", someone who is maybe the best player on the team and a defensive stud but someone that still allows for Love to be the top offensive player or 1B like young Kobe/Westbrook. Purely offensively speaking there lol.

I'm not saying yeah, for sure build around Love and you're a lock to win. I'm just saying it's not impossible. Chris Paul has had two All-NBA teammates in Blake and Jordan, another good starter in Redick, a 2-time 6MoY winner in Crawford and a championship winning coach in Rivers and he hasn't even made the WCF. Technically, the list of the players you can "build a championship team around" in like 3 or 4 names deep.

FOXHOUND
06-09-2016, 02:21 PM
you say that, but are also one that says Love is an all star so LeBron gets no pass. Lovw WAS a top PF. He isn't whilr next to LeBron. It's all about what guys do in the current uniforms, consistently. And Love, consistently, is not an all star level player for the Cavs. That isn't all his fault, he just isn't a fit with LeBron at this stage of LeBron's career.

Love, mentally, wants his numbers, wants to have the action go through him, and wants to win. That can't all happen, because he is not good enough to be a #1 option, and it seems he isn't pleased with being a #3 option alongside 2 ball dominators. He isn't mentally tough enough to swallow his pride and night in, night out, do the other things better than he always sucked at when he was a high usage offensive player.

I agree, he should have left in FA last year when he had the chance. He also complained back on Team USA when he wasn't getting in games. To me, that was a big hint that this 3rd fiddle stretch big role with LeBron was never going to pass with him. I also think that's OK, and I respect a star player who wants to be in a star role. Unfortunately for him, that's never happening in Cleveland.

ewing
06-09-2016, 02:31 PM
Love is not in the right spot in Cleveland. You continue to push your anti-LeBron agenda any chance you get. This is not the same Love Minnesota had, not even close.

Love is underutilized offensively, big time. He also doesn't have the mental makeup of a guy like Bosh, who swallowed his own pride, and bought into a role. Love is not Bosh, because he can't defend. So because of LeBron's absolute need to control every aspect of his team, Love is not the right fit when you consider the money they are paying, and the role they are asking of him.

If you are not going to run the ball through Love, and let him punish players in the box, and get going through the flow of the game, instead putting him in the corner and telling him to stand there and wait for the occasional corner 3, and maybe give him 3-4 post looks a game, you are better off finding a different PF that costs less money and can play defense.

Love wants to play for a winner, but doesn't have the mental makeup to accept the fact that he needs to slide into a role. He also is a poor PnR defender, which matters deep in the playoffs, where coaches and players are better, and get 7 games to pinpoint and exploit weaknesses.


Love is limited by his role but is still a good starting power forward. He doesn't need to be saved. He isn't the reason for every ill the Cavs have. He is not a good pick and roll defender and isn't very quick laterally. He isn't Amare on D though and he is still a very good offensive PF even if limited. He is also an excellent rebounding PF even while be stuck at the 3 point line on O and he is still an elite passes power forward. Love is good basketball player. He was overrated in Minn and now he is getting unduely killed in Clev b/c guys like you are LeBron fan boys.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2016, 03:42 PM
Love is limited by his role but is still a good starting power forward. He doesn't need to be saved. He isn't the reason for every ill the Cavs have. He is not a good pick and roll defender and isn't very quick laterally. He isn't Amare on D though and he is still a very good offensive PF even if limited. He is also an excellent rebounding PF even while be stuck at the 3 point line on O and he is still an elite passes power forward. Love is good basketball player. He was overrated in Minn and now he is getting unduely killed in Clev b/c guys like you are LeBron fan boys.

He isn't the reason for all their problems, he is just one of them. At this point, LeBron should be playing PF probably, and he and Love aren't what most thought they would be when they threw the names on paper. Love is not the effective Minnesota Love anymore. Not with LeBron.

He isn't a fit for what one would expect from Love. He needs to be featured more on offense. Why pay him that money? Furthermore, LeBron haters just think throwing a name on paper means something. "Omg, he has Love, and all star, all NBA player, what is wrong with him now??". This Love isn't an all star, or all NBA player. JB was the king of this, stating his years playing alongside Shaq constituted as having a HOF'er, multiple chip winning machine on his team, when in reality, that Shaq was one cheeseburger away from a heart attack any moment. It doesn't work when you throw a name on paper. You have to see how they match up and mesh.

I am not sure how I get grouped in as being a LeBron fan boy. I could care less if he wins or loses, but I also could care less that he left Cleveland in the first place. I don't care about any of it. I enjoy watching basketball, studying, and talking about it. I simply know I am watching of the top 5 talents the game has ever seen, and he is always at the center of debates. What the hell else is there to talk about on this board? I don't see any Hornets threads, do you? If you like to hold your emotional opinions of players as an actual value ranking them (which you do at times), that is fine. But it doesn't mean anyone needs to agree with you.

nycericanguy
06-09-2016, 07:20 PM
He isn't the reason for all their problems, he is just one of them. At this point, LeBron should be playing PF probably, and he and Love aren't what most thought they would be when they threw the names on paper. Love is not the effective Minnesota Love anymore. Not with LeBron.

He isn't a fit for what one would expect from Love. He needs to be featured more on offense. Why pay him that money? Furthermore, LeBron haters just think throwing a name on paper means something. "Omg, he has Love, and all star, all NBA player, what is wrong with him now??". This Love isn't an all star, or all NBA player. JB was the king of this, stating his years playing alongside Shaq constituted as having a HOF'er, multiple chip winning machine on his team, when in reality, that Shaq was one cheeseburger away from a heart attack any moment. It doesn't work when you throw a name on paper. You have to see how they match up and mesh.

I am not sure how I get grouped in as being a LeBron fan boy. I could care less if he wins or loses, but I also could care less that he left Cleveland in the first place. I don't care about any of it. I enjoy watching basketball, studying, and talking about it. I simply know I am watching of the top 5 talents the game has ever seen, and he is always at the center of debates. What the hell else is there to talk about on this board? I don't see any Hornets threads, do you? If you like to hold your emotional opinions of players as an actual value ranking them (which you do at times), that is fine. But it doesn't mean anyone needs to agree with you.

in fairness i feel like thats playin both sides of the coin. Lebron will get credit for making guys around him better, he also deserves blame for making them worse. Love still has all star ability, he's just restricted by Lebron. But I would definitely call him an all star caliber player.

Aust
06-09-2016, 07:47 PM
Kevin Love works right now. Clev is not the ideal place for him but this notion that he sucks in Clev is BS. He played pretty well in game 1 and it was a game in game 2 until he got his bell rung so that one isn't his fault either. The amount of hate love is getting is directly correlated to the amount of excuses people make for James. Could he be more then a 16 and 10 guys without James? I think so. Bosh #s were limited by sharing a front court with LBJ too but it doesn't mean either guy is bad. Love is an excellent starting PF in Clev. just like Bosh was an excellent starting PF for the Heat

What do you mean "I think so"?? He's been more than a 16/10 guy before playing with James. There's nothing to think about.

LA_Raiders
06-09-2016, 08:37 PM
For another role player or a prospect. I don't think he can be traded for another allstar.

FOXHOUND
06-09-2016, 09:08 PM
For another role player or a prospect. I don't think he can be traded for another allstar.

Since he's a kind of a glorified role player for them anyways, a trade for 2 to 3 good role players would be a great net positive for Cleveland. If they can get a stretch big who plays better D for when LeBron is at SF and a good wing defender who can shoot for when LeBron is at PF then it's a win-win. Who is that trade partner? I have no idea lol.

I mean, a Boston deal centered around Crowder and pick 16 may do the trick. There's a good amount of big man prospects in the mid to late teens area and at some point Cleveland has to put some sort of value on youth lol. Start LeBron at PF, Crowder at SF and groom the young big off the bench playing with Thompson and Frye in a 3-man big rotation.

ewing
06-09-2016, 09:14 PM
He isn't the reason for all their problems, he is just one of them. At this point, LeBron should be playing PF probably, and he and Love aren't what most thought they would be when they threw the names on paper. Love is not the effective Minnesota Love anymore. Not with LeBron.

He isn't a fit for what one would expect from Love. He needs to be featured more on offense. Why pay him that money? Furthermore, LeBron haters just think throwing a name on paper means something. "Omg, he has Love, and all star, all NBA player, what is wrong with him now??". This Love isn't an all star, or all NBA player. JB was the king of this, stating his years playing alongside Shaq constituted as having a HOF'er, multiple chip winning machine on his team, when in reality, that Shaq was one cheeseburger away from a heart attack any moment. It doesn't work when you throw a name on paper. You have to see how they match up and mesh.

I am not sure how I get grouped in as being a LeBron fan boy. I could care less if he wins or loses, but I also could care less that he left Cleveland in the first place. I don't care about any of it. I enjoy watching basketball, studying, and talking about it. I simply know I am watching of the top 5 talents the game has ever seen, and he is always at the center of debates. What the hell else is there to talk about on this board? I don't see any Hornets threads, do you? If you like to hold your emotional opinions of players as an actual value ranking them (which you do at times), that is fine. But it doesn't mean anyone needs to agree with you.

he's not a problem. he is an asset. we had people on this board blaming his D when they got blown out in game two with him on the bench and the team scoring 80 points. then the same lineup that got destroyed in game 2 with love on the bench wins game three and its b/c love didn't play. Dude is the scapegoat.

yinhuh
06-10-2016, 10:36 AM
Like the excuses you make for Sixers players calling them top 10 in the league but can't figure out why they only won 10 games this seasonhttp://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/3.gifhttp://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/4.gif

Hawkeye15
06-10-2016, 10:44 AM
in fairness i feel like thats playin both sides of the coin. Lebron will get credit for making guys around him better, he also deserves blame for making them worse. Love still has all star ability, he's just restricted by Lebron. But I would definitely call him an all star caliber player.

yep. But all star caliber, and all star, are indeed different things. We all know Love is capable of being an all star level player. But we also know he isn't on this roster.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2016, 10:45 AM
he's not a problem. he is an asset. we had people on this board blaming his D when they got blown out in game two with him on the bench and the team scoring 80 points. then the same lineup that got destroyed in game 2 with love on the bench wins game three and its b/c love didn't play. Dude is the scapegoat.

he is an asset, as long as people aren't overrating that asset. If you are trying to portray Love as the same impactful player he was in Minnesota, you are overrating him.

smith&wesson
06-10-2016, 12:50 PM
CLE would have no use for Jval or Ross really. They already have TT at C and Shump/JR at SG.

But I proposed this idea...

NY - Jval, Ross, #9 pick.

CLE - Melo, JC

TOR - Love, O'quinn

Knicks probably wouldn't have use for Jval either with KP & Lopez already there, but they could turn around and flip Jval for a legit backcourt player.

Jonas would be by far their best low post scorer which is what they lack really. Thompson is a great rebounder, Mozzy is a good low post defender.. But Jonas is a C with a higher ceiling then both of them and can be counted on to be incorporated in to the offense.

Bron and Love at the 3&4 hasn't worked out. It would seem to me that Bron would be better complimented by a true C who can score, and another 3&D wing player as shumpert, and JR aren't exactly elite, so perhaps some depth at the wing would be a better alternative.

Also we could add picks to make the deal more attractive for Cleveland. the 9th and 27th over all picks in this years draft which can be flipped in to other pieces.

I like your trade idea. NY gets a C that they can pair up with Proz and build for the future. They also get their 9th pick back which they can use to add to the young core of Jval and Proz.

Cleveland pairs Lebron and Kyrie up with Melo.

Toronto geits their pf ...

Seems like a deal that would make everyone happy.

smith&wesson
06-10-2016, 12:56 PM
he is an asset, as long as people aren't overrating that asset. If you are trying to portray Love as the same impactful player he was in Minnesota, you are overrating him.

but can he regain that form on another team, in another system where his a 1a, 1b option on offense rather then the 3rd piece that plays off two other star players??

I think Love is still young and can still be a monster statistically but it just depends on the system and how he is incorporated. I don think he is simply a shell of his former self.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2016, 01:06 PM
but can he regain that form on another team, in another system where his a 1a, 1b option on offense rather then the 3rd piece that plays off two other star players??

I think Love is still young and can still be a monster statistically but it just depends on the system and how he is incorporated. I don think he is simply a shell of his former self.

The thing is, I am not sure Love is able to swallow his pride, and accept a role, and then use the energy he was expending on a high usage offensive role, to better himself in his weaker areas (namely defense).

He wants to win, but wants to have it all go through him. He isn't good enough to succeed in that. Not sure what his career will end up as. All I know is that I obviously missed the signs of him being a mental midget when he was in Minnesota, and looking back, I should have seen it.

He can still be an effective player on a great team. But people expecting him to be an all star caliber player on THIS team, are delusional. In fact, LeBron should be playing PF at this point, so Love should probably go when they get the opportunity. That money can be spent elsewhere for more benefit.

nycericanguy
06-10-2016, 01:18 PM
Jonas would be by far their best low post scorer which is what they lack really. Thompson is a great rebounder, Mozzy is a good low post defender.. But Jonas is a C with a higher ceiling then both of them and can be counted on to be incorporated in to the offense.

Bron and Love at the 3&4 hasn't worked out. It would seem to me that Bron would be better complimented by a true C who can score, and another 3&D wing player as shumpert, and JR aren't exactly elite, so perhaps some depth at the wing would be a better alternative.

Also we could add picks to make the deal more attractive for Cleveland. the 9th and 27th over all picks in this years draft which can be flipped in to other pieces.

I like your trade idea. NY gets a C that they can pair up with Proz and build for the future. They also get their 9th pick back which they can use to add to the young core of Jval and Proz.

Cleveland pairs Lebron and Kyrie up with Melo.

Toronto geits their pf ...

Seems like a deal that would make everyone happy.

I don't see Jval & TT upfront working out, neither of those guys can really shoot, spacing would be poor and it would make them slow overall. Then you add Lebron who isn't the best shooter also? I think at this point CLE is better with TT at C and Lebron at PF. The league is moving away from guys like Jval. I suppose CLE could move TT or bring him off the bench and start Jval.

Porzingis is 7'3 and likely a C in the near future, I dont think Jval would be a good fit there either. But like I said I think NY could flip him for much needed backcourt help.

ewing
06-10-2016, 06:46 PM
he is an asset, as long as people aren't overrating that asset. If you are trying to portray Love as the same impactful player he was in Minnesota, you are overrating him.


people aren't over rating him. they are ****ing killing him.

FlashBolt
06-10-2016, 07:07 PM
people aren't over rating him. they are ****ing killing him.

Cause your PF should not be shooting below 40% in the playoffs. Your center and PF should be the most efficient scorers in the game. He's just not right for this team. LeBron chose wrong and it's his fault. I thought it would work because I believed it would have been a Chris-Bosh type transition but it's becoming evident that Love has no desire to fit within this team and wants the team to fit with his style. That just never works. I think Frye is the icing on the cake that Love has to go. He can do everything Love does at this point and can be paid the minimum. Love's contract is a liability right now but there are plenty of desperate teams who would gladly take him. Looking at OKC's situation, if we can resign KD, I wouldn't mind a trade of Ibaka for Love. Salaries aren't even so other things have to work out but Ibaka is what the Cavs can use right now.