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North Yorker
06-02-2016, 06:48 PM
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Atlanta and Philadelphia are discussing a deal centered on a Jeff Teague and Nerlens Noel package, league sources tell The Vertical.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/738488558701318144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

*Silver&Black*
06-02-2016, 06:49 PM
Atlanta and Philadelphia are discussing a possible trade centered on Hawks guard Jeff Teague and 76ers center Nerlens Noel, league sources told The Vertical.

The sides have discussed the deal recently, but an agreement isn’t imminent, sources said.

For Philadelphia, there has been strong interest over the past year in acquiring a high-end starting point guard. The 76ers have the No. 1 overall pick in the June 23 NBA draft and will likely select Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram, but have a glut of talent in the frontcourt, including Noel, Jahlil Okafor, Joel Embiid and potentially Dario Saric.

In his seventh NBA season with the Hawks, Teague averaged 15.7 points, 5.9 assists and 2.7 rebounds in 79 games. Atlanta had discussed possible deals at the trade deadline to break up its core of Teague, Al Horford and Paul Millsap, but elected to keep the team intact. The Hawks reached the Eastern Conference semifinals. Teague, 27, was selected to the All-Star team in 2015.

Noel, an active athlete and shot-blocker at 6-foot-11, averaged 11.1 points, 8.1 rebounds and 1.5 blocks for Philadelphia this season. He was the No. 6 selection in the 2013 NBA draft by New Orleans and was acquired by the 76ers. Noel, 22, missed his rookie season with an ACL injury but remains an attractive, young talent on the 76ers’ roster.

Teague (unrestricted) and Noel (restricted) will reach free agency in 2017.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--teague-noel-220433953.html

Aust
06-02-2016, 06:52 PM
Gahh, you beat me to it. I'll get my thread down.

With Teague turning 28 in one week and having a year left on his deal, would this be the right move for Philly?

LeonFSU
06-02-2016, 06:52 PM
Hard to imagine this turning out well for Philadelphia if true.

*Silver&Black*
06-02-2016, 06:54 PM
I'm on the Hawks' side of things obviously.

I would love this deal.

Schroder and Noel can start off a rebuild if we decide to trade Korver and Millsap too for picks/players.

North Yorker
06-02-2016, 06:54 PM
Hard to imagine this turning out well for Philadelphia if true.

Yea, I bet Teague would bolt in a year unless Philly heavily overpays him in FA.

Pfeifer
06-02-2016, 06:58 PM
Oh bryan collangelo.

Aust
06-02-2016, 06:58 PM
Philly will have plenty of cap, but there might be more desirable situations.

STRIKERC
06-02-2016, 07:02 PM
Oh bryan collangelo.

Yup, we have basketball guys running things in Philly now.
We wanted to win some games and look good in the eyes of the media. We got it.

beasted86
06-02-2016, 07:09 PM
Jrue for Noel, Noel for Teague.

And the treadmill runs on....

*Silver&Black*
06-02-2016, 07:16 PM
Teague would be the perfect PG for Simmons' 1st year of development.

Schroder has a little of that 'hero ball' Westbrook in him and I don't think that would work so well on a bad Sixers team looking to establish Simmons as the face of the franchise.

Getting a durable all-star level PG for Simmons' rookie year and Hawks getting a shot blocker and rebounder finally to go with Schroder taking the command of the team would be good for both.

da ThRONe
06-02-2016, 07:19 PM
Gahh, you beat me to it. I'll get my thread down.

With Teague turning 28 in one week and having a year left on his deal, would this be the right move for Philly?

I think somebody like Eric Bledsoe is a better target.

TheDish87
06-02-2016, 07:21 PM
i hate Brian and Jerry Colangelo.

THE MTL
06-02-2016, 07:21 PM
Jrue for Noel, Noel for Teague.

And the treadmill runs on....

I was able to say. So ultimately it became Jrue for Teague. So Philly took on 2 extra years of sucking just to get the same caliber of player who's actually older.

Jason Giovanni
06-02-2016, 07:22 PM
Aaaaand you wonder why Sixers have been a bottom dweller....

ShadyMcCoy29
06-02-2016, 07:29 PM
I was able to say. So ultimately it became Jrue for Teague. So Philly took on 2 extra years of sucking just to get the same caliber of player who's actually older.

jrue for teague and saric. I dont like the noel/teague deal, but dont diminish hinkies work please

numba1CHANGsta
06-02-2016, 07:36 PM
Teague will leave no one wants to be a Sixer

TheMightyHumph
06-02-2016, 07:45 PM
I think somebody like Eric Bledsoe is a better target.

Injury-plagued, no?

*Silver&Black*
06-02-2016, 07:46 PM
If Simmons pans out and Embiid stays healthy, I can see a massive improvement, maybe even a fight for the 8th seed.

Teague
FA (Bazemore?)
Covington
Simmons/Saric
Okafor/Embiid

Hawks though, Schroder and Noel will be there, but are they still about making the playoffs or rebuild fully (my option). Trade Millsap if you let Horford walk, and get a head start on a rebuild.

5ass
06-02-2016, 07:50 PM
Its not a terrible trade for the sixers, but its a better trade for the Hawks. If Teague was like 23-24 years old and locked into a longer contract it would've been a good trade for both, but with Teague turning 28 and being an UFA next year I think Hawks need to add some value. I would ask for Korver.

Sixes finally get a player that can contribute. Simmons and Okafor being building blocks is a decent route for now. I know most sixers fans would prefer Dunn or Murray, but trust me young PGs usually don't contribute at all in their first few years. Even Schroder in his third year wasn't anything more than a good back up, as a starter he would've been below average for sure. At this point in time I think its a good idea to start getting your building blocks some support and wins. That will help them develop.

For the Hawks, I guess this means Horford is leaving? Will they finally rebuild? Millsap trade coming next?

da ThRONe
06-02-2016, 07:51 PM
Injury-plagued, no?

True, but so was Steph Curry until he wasn't. He's under contract for 4 more years.

5ass
06-02-2016, 07:53 PM
If Simmons pans out and Embiid stays healthy, I can see a massive improvement, maybe even a fight for the 8th seed.

Teague
FA (Bazemore?)
Covington
Simmons/Saric
Okafor/Embiid

Hawks though, Schroder and Noel will be there, but are they still about making the playoffs or rebuild fully (my option). Trade Millsap if you let Horford walk, and get a head start on a rebuild.

No way they get the 8th seed. That would require 45 wins.

Who/what would you look for in a Millsap trade?

*Silver&Black*
06-02-2016, 07:54 PM
I would assume Millsap might be next if this goes through.

Hawks love Horford, so even if we 'rebuild', I can see us still going after him to play PF finally.

TheMightyHumph
06-02-2016, 08:00 PM
True, but so was Steph Curry until he wasn't. He's under contract for 4 more years.

Did Warriors trade a player of worth for an injured Steph Curry?

theducksmuggler
06-02-2016, 08:06 PM
76ers lose HUGE if this trade goes down and as a 76ers fan i will be beyond miserable. Trade a 22 year old top 10 defensive player in the NBA for a 28 year old PG who isnt even top 10 a his own position is beyond ludicrous in my opinon. With the cap going up to 108 million next year and a max contract is 30% of the cap that is a 5 year/175 million dollar contract for Jeff Teague at age 28 HUGE **** NO to that!!!!

More-Than-Most
06-02-2016, 08:10 PM
Not a bad deal but i like it slightly better for the hawks... This is the sixers playing it safe... They dont want to do the logical thing and trade OKA because of the fan backlash but honestly its sad to say but this is the type of value noel will get you... I expected a 10-15 pick for Noel but teague is similar or slightly better than that esp if we draft simmons because that alone will help develop simmons a ton.

If we 100 percent believe in OKA/Embiid you do this and I think they do... Id prefer the combo of Embiid/Noel but its whatever.

FOXHOUND
06-02-2016, 08:10 PM
Teague isn't enough, I'm sure more is going Philly's way. They're both 1 year from FA.

More-Than-Most
06-02-2016, 08:11 PM
Teague will leave no one wants to be a Sixer

Much like Howard? LMA? Every single one of your posts is full of baiting.. Its ridiculous.

More-Than-Most
06-02-2016, 08:12 PM
Teague isn't enough, I'm sure more is going Philly's way. They're both 1 year from FA.

Nope they both have similar value... People dont seem to understand that Noel is in the same boat and that further hurts his value because he is also 1 year away from free agency.

Noel nomatter what will always be a bench guy here because of Embiid/Oka..

Noels max number next year is 5 years 150 million... He will get similar somewhere else because of how insane contracts are.. We cant pay that for a non starter... teague would be a starter for us.

da ThRONe
06-02-2016, 08:20 PM
Did Warriors trade a player of worth for an injured Steph Curry?

Sorry not sure what you are asking.

FOXHOUND
06-02-2016, 08:24 PM
Nope they both have similar value... People dont seem to understand that Noel is in the same boat and that further hurts his value because he is also 1 year away from free agency.

Noel nomatter what will always be a bench guy here because of Embiid/Oka..

Noels max number next year is 5 years 150 million... He will get similar somewhere else because of how insane contracts are.. We cant pay that for a non starter... teague would be a starter for us.

Hmm, well I guess that depends on whether or not you believe Noel will be getting a max or not. Next year is the last big cap jump so the market should settle down instead of guys getting paid extra for future hikes. I don't think he'll get the max, unless he has an outstanding year which is definitely possible.

I think his age makes this more pricey than the fact that both of them have to be paid next year. Teague being an UFA adds an extra layer of risk but I don't think he'll be getting offered a max either for the reasons mentioned before. Probably around $20M, maybe a bit higher if he has an outstanding year but that's less probable given his age and the likelihood that he is what he is at this point.

Philly does have to make at least one move though and they could certainly do a lot worse than Teague as a return. Not a terrible trade and I wouldn't be shocked to see some extra compensation headed Philly's way.

GiantsSwaGG
06-02-2016, 08:27 PM
Its not a terrible trade for the sixers, but its a better trade for the Hawks. If Teague was like 23-24 years old and locked into a longer contract it would've been a good trade for both, but with Teague turning 28 and being an UFA next year I think Hawks need to add some value. I would ask for Korver.

Sixes finally get a player that can contribute. Simmons and Okafor being building blocks is a decent route for now. I know most sixers fans would prefer Dunn or Murray, but trust me young PGs usually don't contribute at all in their first few years. Even Schroder in his third year wasn't anything more than a good back up, as a starter he would've been below average for sure. At this point in time I think its a good idea to start getting your building blocks some support and wins. That will help them develop.

For the Hawks, I guess this means Horford is leaving? Will they finally rebuild? Millsap trade coming next?

It's a terrible trade for the Sixers

1. Teague is a 1yr rental

2. If he isn't a rental, you'll likely have to pay him max money or close to it

3. Noel has the potiental to become of the best defensive big (Tyson Chandler type player)

4. Teague is slightly above average PG

5. The Sixers traded for the wrong PG, (Shoerder is better)

LivinLakers
06-02-2016, 08:38 PM
Gahh, you beat me to it. I'll get my thread down.

With Teague turning 28 in one week and having a year left on his deal, would this be the right move for Philly?

I think somebody like Eric Bledsoe is a better target.
I completely agree, except that Bledsoe has had some injuries lately. I personally think Philly could do better.

Alayla
06-02-2016, 08:39 PM
Hard to imagine this turning out well for Philadelphia if true.

yup funny how as soon as Hinkie is gone everything seems ready to go to ****.

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 08:40 PM
I don't think it's bad for Philly but I question how realistic they are with their timeline. Teague will be playing his age 28 season. So you're looking at extending him next year on a 4/5 year deal for his age 29 through 32/33 seasons. Not ideal years. Even with all the young talent they have, they can't possibly think they're closer than 2-3 years away from truly competing for a championship. Teague isn't a great fit in that window. I think if they don't want to re-sign Noel they're better off looking for similarly-aged players who will still be in their primes when PHI is competing. Even if the player isn't as good as Teague I think it would be better for them because it'd actually help them when they're competing.

Just my opinion.

LivinLakers
06-02-2016, 08:41 PM
Why wouldn't the Sixers trade Noel for Jordan Clarkson. He is younger and has more upside. Plus he is not that far off from a player like Teague. Who says no???

Alayla
06-02-2016, 08:48 PM
Why wouldn't the Sixers trade Noel for Jordan Clarkson. He is younger and has more upside. Plus he is not that far off from a player like Teague. Who says no???

I would rather do that and even that looks ugly.

Alayla
06-02-2016, 08:49 PM
I don't think it's bad for Philly but I question how realistic they are with their timeline. Teague will be playing his age 28 season. So you're looking at extending him next year on a 4/5 year deal for his age 29 through 32/33 seasons. Not ideal years. Even with all the young talent they have, they can't possibly think they're closer than 2-3 years away from truly competing for a championship. Teague isn't a great fit in that window. I think if they don't want to re-sign Noel they're better off looking for similarly-aged players who will still be in their primes when PHI is competing. Even if the player isn't as good as Teague I think it would be better for them because it'd actually help them when they're competing.

Just my opinion.

Yup please let this not be true if this happens I'm calling for the heads of the colangalos

FOXHOUND
06-02-2016, 09:01 PM
I don't think it's bad for Philly but I question how realistic they are with their timeline. Teague will be playing his age 28 season. So you're looking at extending him next year on a 4/5 year deal for his age 29 through 32/33 seasons. Not ideal years. Even with all the young talent they have, they can't possibly think they're closer than 2-3 years away from truly competing for a championship. Teague isn't a great fit in that window. I think if they don't want to re-sign Noel they're better off looking for similarly-aged players who will still be in their primes when PHI is competing. Even if the player isn't as good as Teague I think it would be better for them because it'd actually help them when they're competing.

Just my opinion.

Yeah, this is why I feel like a pick has to be going Philly's way with Teague. His age doesn't make sense, but if they got like a top-10 protected pick or something like that then it would be really good. Atlanta is about to blow it up so that may be able to get a pretty good one out of it.

Teague doesn't fit into their long end timeline but they need to start winning some games so their young players actually know what that feels like. They also need a PG to run the offense and put these young guys in the best positions to succeed. To lead them and help them grow. These are critical factors to their development which is what Hinkie didn't understand with his annual sub-20 win seasons and logjam roster.

jerellh528
06-02-2016, 09:01 PM
It would have to be more than just Teague. Wouldn't this be a 1 year rental pretty much?

jerellh528
06-02-2016, 09:02 PM
Why wouldn't the Sixers trade Noel for Jordan Clarkson. He is younger and has more upside. Plus he is not that far off from a player like Teague. Who says no???

I'm hop all over that. I hope Mitch at least inquired about the asking price for Noel

Stunner
06-02-2016, 09:03 PM
Philly should only do the this deal if teague reups before the trade

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 09:23 PM
Yeah, this is why I feel like a pick has to be going Philly's way with Teague. His age doesn't make sense, but if they got like a top-10 protected pick or something like that then it would be really good. Atlanta is about to blow it up so that may be able to get a pretty good one out of it.

Teague doesn't fit into their long end timeline but they need to start winning some games so their young players actually know what that feels like. They also need a PG to run the offense and put these young guys in the best positions to succeed. To lead them and help them grow. These are critical factors to their development which is what Hinkie didn't understand with his annual sub-20 win seasons and logjam roster.

I agree about the need to win some games. But not sure this is the way to go about it. I assume that if you move Noel you aren't moving Okafor as well. Moving one of them is really the only trade chip you have. To move it for someone who doesn't fit your timeline would be a poor choice IMO.

I also don't think ATL is going to blow it up. I think they'll re-sign Horford because he's a lifer. They'll re-sign Bazemore too because he's young. Make another run with the group they have. Then next year they let Millsap/Korver go and re-sign Noel. Noel/Bazemore/Schroeder becomes the young core with Horford as the veteran leader.

I don't think that's a good plan but it's what I think they will do. IMO, they should let Horford walk and trade Millsap/Korver for assets. If Bazemore comes at like $12-15M then keep him because he is young but at more than that he's not worth it. Schroeder is a good young PG and Noel is a dominant defensive player so let that be your core. Even at $20M/year each that's only like 40% of the cap so there's plenty of room to build. But I don't think that's their plan.

warfelg
06-02-2016, 09:40 PM
I'm super on the fence.

On one hand, I prefer to keep Noel over Okafor.

But on the other I understand it from a basketball standpoint. Teague is a good shooter who doesn't need the ball to be effective and can help Simmons become a star because of that.

TheNumber37
06-02-2016, 09:40 PM
They need an extension for teague to stay. If I'm teague I'm not signing on long term to play in PHI. I'm playing this year wherever and then signing with San Antonio

SeoulBeatz
06-02-2016, 09:42 PM
i hate Brian and Jerry Colangelo.

If this deal goes through, everything I feared about getting rid of Hinkie will be coming to fruition. Mediocrity incoming.

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 09:50 PM
I'm super on the fence.

On one hand, I prefer to keep Noel over Okafor.

But on the other I understand it from a basketball standpoint. Teague is a good shooter who doesn't need the ball to be effective and can help Simmons become a star because of that.

Jamal Murray can be that type of player too and on a rookie deal... come get you some. :D

warfelg
06-02-2016, 09:54 PM
Jamal Murray can be that type of player too and on a rookie deal... come get you some. :D

I posted in the Sixer forum, that I think they would still go Okafor for 3+ and pick Bender not Murray/Hield/Dunn.

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 10:00 PM
I posted in the Sixer forum, that I think they would still go Okafor for 3+ and pick Bender not Murray/Hield/Dunn.


If McCollum is on the block I think that's the best move for you guys and Okafor. However, not sure POR would want a player like him who's defense is such a liability. They have good complimentary bigs.

warfelg
06-02-2016, 10:04 PM
If McCollum is on the block I think that's the best move for you guys and Okafor. However, not sure POR would want a player like him who's defense is such a liability. They have good complimentary bigs.

I would take that and slide McCollum to the 1. I would add 24 or 26 to Okafor if that's what it takes.

Aust
06-02-2016, 10:04 PM
I posted in the Sixer forum, that I think they would still go Okafor for 3+ and pick Bender not Murray/Hield/Dunn.

Bender would be a homerun pick.

Teague
FA
Simmons
Bender
Embiid

Sick potential.

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 10:10 PM
I would take that and slide McCollum to the 1. I would add 24 or 26 to Okafor if that's what it takes.

24/26 are nothing pieces. It's not a matter of Philly sweetening the deal it's the philosophical question of it POR would be a 20 ppg SG for a post up big. I'm not sure a dump it in, tunnel vision center is a great complimentary piece to Lillard like McCollum is. Throw in the defensive questions and the fact that POR already has solid bigs and I don't see it. Late 1sts do nothing to change that.

But if they would do it I think that would be your best bet.

Stunner
06-02-2016, 10:10 PM
Philly don't need Bender

Aust
06-02-2016, 10:12 PM
Nope they both have similar value... People dont seem to understand that Noel is in the same boat and that further hurts his value because he is also 1 year away from free agency.

Noel nomatter what will always be a bench guy here because of Embiid/Oka..

Noels max number next year is 5 years 150 million... He will get similar somewhere else because of how insane contracts are.. We cant pay that for a non starter... teague would be a starter for us.

With less than 7 years of experience, his max with the upcoming season cap rise would be 21.56m. His max next year would be 25.31m.

5ass
06-02-2016, 10:25 PM
Why wouldn't the Sixers trade Noel for Jordan Clarkson. He is younger and has more upside. Plus he is not that far off from a player like Teague. Who says no???

Or they can get Teague and sign Clarkson since he's an unrestricted FA this offseason. Also sign Allen Crabbe and reing Clarkson off the bench as a 6th man where he belongs.

I think some sixers fans are being too dramatic. Noel's value dropped since last year. For one his contract is abut to expire and also he played out of position on a historically terrible team. He doesn't have great stats or good wins. Plus, Hinkie drafted another center and made it necessary to move one of them. The sixers have to make a win now move. This is no longer a question. The east is only getting stronger. If they don't start making win now moves they won't see the play offs for the next 3+ years. If Noel is not a building block you trade him and nurture your building blocks' potential. An experienced PG helps A LOT, and there aren't many of those available. Conley isn't signing with them. Best they can do is Brandon Jennings...

From the Hawks side I'm sure you have a few teams inquiring about Teague. He's a good player, and I'd be surprised if Utah isn't offering at least Burke and Burks. So at the end of the day Sixers need to put a competitive offer on the table.

ewing
06-02-2016, 10:32 PM
If this deal goes through, everything I feared about getting rid of Hinkie will be coming to fruition. Mediocrity incoming.



you guys so dramatic. no wonder you never want to pull the trigger on anything. Teague is not ideal b/c of his age but he is a good player. Noel is one way player that comes off the bench on a decent team IMO and his offensive is so bad I really don't see him getting better. this move is neither making or breaking the sixers.

Stunner
06-02-2016, 10:34 PM
Clarkson is a RFA

Aust
06-02-2016, 11:48 PM
Yeah, he's a RFA. No chance the Lakers don't resign him.

SeoulBeatz
06-02-2016, 11:57 PM
you guys so dramatic. no wonder you never want to pull the trigger on anything. Teague is not ideal b/c of his age but he is a good player. Noel is one way player that comes off the bench on a decent team IMO and his offensive is so bad I really don't see him getting better. this move is neither making or breaking the sixers.

Teague is a very good PG. He's in the prime of his career, but by the time our core starts to grow he will be on the decline. This would not be a smart move for a team that's nowhere near ready to compete.

I would much rather sign a stop-gap PG and wait until next years draft (where there's a glut of PG's) to find our floor general of the future.

Also, Noel's offense may be non-existent outside of tip-ins and easy dunks, but I think you're underrating his defensive ability and thusly his value overall. He is a starting caliber C in a league where big men don't need to score to make an impact anymore.

He finished top 15 in blocks and steals in his first two years and he's capable of guarding positions 1-5.

I haven't seen too many centers who can protect the rim, play passing lanes, and strip ball-handlers like he can.

The tape speaks for itself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJZ0H-lEvb0


I'm more than willing to move anyone on the roster for the right piece, Teague just isn't the guy.

naps
06-03-2016, 12:19 AM
I dont understand this for the Sixers. What's the Collangelo family are seeing positive in this that I am sure most dont?

Alayla
06-03-2016, 10:37 AM
you guys so dramatic. no wonder you never want to pull the trigger on anything. Teague is not ideal b/c of his age but he is a good player. Noel is one way player that comes off the bench on a decent team IMO and his offensive is so bad I really don't see him getting better. this move is neither making or breaking the sixers.

There are a lot of things I would pull the trigger on but a 22 year old Defense BEAST C for a 28 year old slightly above average starting Pg is not among those things if this happens its indefensible.

ewing
06-03-2016, 10:43 AM
There are a lot of things I would pull the trigger on but a 22 year old Defense BEAST C for a 28 year old slightly above average starting Pg is not among those things if this happens its indefensible.

I know he got one 3rd place vote. it was historic :)

ewing
06-03-2016, 11:00 AM
Teague is a very good PG. He's in the prime of his career, but by the time our core starts to grow he will be on the decline. This would not be a smart move for a team that's nowhere near ready to compete.

I would much rather sign a stop-gap PG and wait until next years draft (where there's a glut of PG's) to find our floor general of the future.

Also, Noel's offense may be non-existent outside of tip-ins and easy dunks, but I think you're underrating his defensive ability and thusly his value overall. He is a starting caliber C in a league where big men don't need to score to make an impact anymore.

He finished top 15 in blocks and steals in his first two years and he's capable of guarding positions 1-5.

I haven't seen too many centers who can protect the rim, play passing lanes, and strip ball-handlers like he can.

The tape speaks for itself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJZ0H-lEvb0


I'm more than willing to move anyone on the roster for the right piece, Teague just isn't the guy.


I disagree. I do not think he is a starting quality center and he is close to unplayable in close late game situations. i feel he is very similarly about him as i do Clint Cappala. He has value but he allows the other team to clog the paint, to match up anyway they want, and to play anyone they want at 5. there is a difference b/t not being a big scorer and being a non threat. Noel is a non threat this makes him a situational player on a good team .

valade16
06-03-2016, 11:02 AM
I disagree. I do not think he is a starting quality center and he is close to unplayable in close late game situations. i feel he is very similarly about him as i do Clint Cappala. He has value but he allows the other team to clog the paint, to match up anyway they want, and to play anyone they want at 5. there is a difference b/t not being a big scorer and being a non threat. Noel is a non threat this makes him a situational player on a good team .

I agree that people are going to realize that Noel is not nearly as good as he is being hyped right now.

Hawkeye15
06-03-2016, 11:16 AM
with the frontcourt overload the Sixers have, the trade value of their bigs has dropped. Sixers need to live with that. Balancing the roster and bringing in a starting PG in his prime isn't a bad thing for this roster. They can't continue to lose 60+ games a year and think that any culture will come from it that is positive. They have to start infusing some vet talent in at this point. They still will be a top 3-4 lottery team next year, and get another high pick, so I don't know why the push back on this deal.

Noel is a not a cornerstone player. He is basically Theo Ratliff. Is that seriously worth not moving to get an immediate upgrade at a position of need?

hugepatsfan
06-03-2016, 11:19 AM
with the frontcourt overload the Sixers have, the trade value of their bigs has dropped. Sixers need to live with that. Balancing the roster and bringing in a starting PG in his prime isn't a bad thing for this roster. They can't continue to lose 60+ games a year and think that any culture will come from it that is positive. They have to start infusing some vet talent in at this point. They still will be a top 3-4 lottery team next year, and get another high pick, so I don't know why the push back on this deal.

Noel is a not a cornerstone player. He is basically Theo Ratliff. Is that seriously worth not moving to get an immediate upgrade at a position of need?

Don't you see the contradiction there? Why not move him for a younger player since, like you pointed out, they won't be competing. I get the idea of adding vet talent but I don't think you need to give up your most valuable assets to do that. The cap is going up... overpay vets on 1-2 year deals. Like I'm talking huuuuuge overpays. Why not? Keep the long-term cap space but get the vet leadership in the meantime. Just my opinion.

Vinylman
06-03-2016, 11:25 AM
Nope they both have similar value... People dont seem to understand that Noel is in the same boat and that further hurts his value because he is also 1 year away from free agency.

Noel nomatter what will always be a bench guy here because of Embiid/Oka..

Noels max number next year is 5 years 150 million... He will get similar somewhere else because of how insane contracts are.. We cant pay that for a non starter... teague would be a starter for us.

I think you got this right... people are overvaluing Noel...

I wonder if Atl included a future first (like 4 years out) if Philly would take on Splitters deal.

There is definitely a big deal in there somewhere

Tony_Starks
06-03-2016, 11:26 AM
Like the dog returning to his vomit....

IndyRealist
06-03-2016, 11:34 AM
This is silly. The Sixers are under mandate to win as much as they can, and that means trading "potenial" for proven players now. That's Jeff Teague. And they're going to spend a ton of money in free agency for vets to fill out the roster. They're not going to land Durant or Horford, but if they can sign Brandon Bass, Jared Dudley, and Ty Lawson I'd take that team as the 8th seed if Simmons is half as good as people think he is.

Hawkeye15
06-03-2016, 11:40 AM
Don't you see the contradiction there? Why not move him for a younger player since, like you pointed out, they won't be competing. I get the idea of adding vet talent but I don't think you need to give up your most valuable assets to do that. The cap is going up... overpay vets on 1-2 year deals. Like I'm talking huuuuuge overpays. Why not? Keep the long-term cap space but get the vet leadership in the meantime. Just my opinion.

I personally feel Noel's value is hurt by the fact that everybody and their mother knows at some point, the Sixers have no choice but to trade a big man or two.

The statements are not a contradiction. They need some presence on the floor that can help their young roster develop as a group. A 28 year old PG who has played in the playoffs is that. However, they are still young, and lack talent, so while they would get better, it's not like this pushes them to anything more than 5-6 more wins, this single move alone.

I think the Sixers drafting big man after big man, has lessened the value of those players individually. That is what drives my thinking on this situation in particular. I also stated, I see Noel as nothing more than Theo Ratliff later on, so I am not high on him anyways.

Stunner
06-03-2016, 11:45 AM
But them trading for a player who won't stay there most likely makes zero sense at all . No way you do that trade without insurance of Teague staying long term

Hawkeye15
06-03-2016, 11:56 AM
But them trading for a player who won't stay there most likely makes zero sense at all . No way you do that trade without insurance of Teague staying long term

obviously that would be a key piece that they would need to be comfortable he stays.

eDush
06-03-2016, 11:57 AM
Gahh, you beat me to it. I'll get my thread down.

With Teague turning 28 in one week and having a year left on his deal, would this be the right move for Philly?Philly wants Schoeder, not Teague. Everyone knows that.

Vinylman
06-03-2016, 12:07 PM
But them trading for a player who won't stay there most likely makes zero sense at all . No way you do that trade without insurance of Teague staying long term

The real issue is they don't want to trade Oka because it isn't 100% embiid will be back. If it was 100% you do the Boston deal. I am also sure they are shopping him to multiple teams and that this might just be a fall back trade. remember your logic works both ways though... they pretty much HAVE to trade Noel or they will HAVE to sign him to a big deal next offseason...

Stunner
06-03-2016, 12:13 PM
The real issue is they don't want to trade Oka because it isn't 100% embiid will be back. If it was 100% you do the Boston deal. I am also sure they are shopping him to multiple teams and that this might just be a fall back trade. remember your logic works both ways though... they pretty much HAVE to trade Noel or they will HAVE to sign him to a big deal next offseason...

I get all of this lol the thing is if you're going to trade one of your bigs trade for a player who isn't on a one year deal . That's pretty much universally stupid for a young rebuilding team .

You don't trade young talent for a player who is well in their prime on a one year deal and you're nowhere near fighting for a finals appearance let alone the playoffs .


Plus it doesn't really matter when Noel will be a FA because he's going to be RFA . It's better to Match it and then deal him ; no need to settle yet for these type of deals .


It's not like philly is on the birth of contending for anything

Stunner
06-03-2016, 12:22 PM
Noel shouldn't even be the big out the door , it's def Okafor .

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 12:37 PM
This is silly. The Sixers are under mandate to win as much as they can, and that means trading "potenial" for proven players now. That's Jeff Teague. And they're going to spend a ton of money in free agency for vets to fill out the roster. They're not going to land Durant or Horford, but if they can sign Brandon Bass, Jared Dudley, and Ty Lawson I'd take that team as the 8th seed if Simmons is half as good as people think he is.

**** all that. thats is the exact opposite of what we want and what hinkie layed out. We're not under any mandate to do anything, you dont trade a promising young Center for Jeff Teague who defines the word mediocre and has 1 year left. We should be pursing Schroeder not Teague

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 12:38 PM
with the frontcourt overload the Sixers have, the trade value of their bigs has dropped. Sixers need to live with that. Balancing the roster and bringing in a starting PG in his prime isn't a bad thing for this roster. They can't continue to lose 60+ games a year and think that any culture will come from it that is positive. They have to start infusing some vet talent in at this point. They still will be a top 3-4 lottery team next year, and get another high pick, so I don't know why the push back on this deal.

Noel is a not a cornerstone player. He is basically Theo Ratliff. Is that seriously worth not moving to get an immediate upgrade at a position of need?

what value does Teague have? Everyone knows ATL likely has to choose between him and Schoeder and they arent going to pay both big money in consecutive seasons.

Vinylman
06-03-2016, 12:44 PM
it is sad to see a lot of philly fans don't understand what Colangelo was brought in to do...

I agree that they shouldn't jump at the first deal they are offered but the reality is they are going to CHURN a lot of assets this offseason...

TheIlladelph16
06-03-2016, 01:00 PM
I will be absolutely furious if this move actually happens. What a terrible idea from the Sixers side.

ewing
06-03-2016, 01:05 PM
losing its the new winning!

KnicksorBust
06-03-2016, 01:11 PM
Jrue for Noel, Noel for Teague.

And the treadmill runs on....

Didnt they also get a 1st round pick... big difference

JLynn943
06-03-2016, 01:14 PM
I don't like the deal. Teague is a middle-of-the-road starter with one year left before he cashes in on being a UFA. Noel's value should be higher than that. This seems more like a trade of convenience than an actual good value swap.

mrblisterdundee
06-03-2016, 01:14 PM
It's a great trade for Atlanta, especially if they can't hold on to Al Horford. I don't think Jeff Teague would be a huge upgrade over Ish Smith. Teague doesn't seem too impressive on his own, but he works wonders in a team-oriented system. He'd be a great replacement for Tony Parker.

JLynn943
06-03-2016, 01:19 PM
It's a great trade for Atlanta, especially if they can't hold on to Al Horford. I don't think Jeff Teague would be a huge upgrade over Ish Smith. Teague doesn't seem too impressive on his own, but he works wonders in a team-oriented system. He'd be a great replacement for Tony Parker.

I was thinking the same thing honestly. Teague would be better for the development of other players, but really, it'd likely only be one year anyway.

GiantsSwaGG
06-03-2016, 01:34 PM
It's a great trade for Atlanta, especially if they can't hold on to Al Horford. I don't think Jeff Teague would be a huge upgrade over Ish Smith. Teague doesn't seem too impressive on his own, but he works wonders in a team-oriented system. He'd be a great replacement for Tony Parker.

Exactly, Teague is slightly above average at best, nothing special. They BARELY upgraded the PG position and downgraded the center position

Stunner
06-03-2016, 01:42 PM
Just dumb, I wouldn't trade Covington


Kurt Helin
Kurt Helin‏ @basketballtalk

Report: Robert Covington and Nik Stauskas could be involved in 76ers’ and Hawks’ Nerlens Noel-Jeff Teague trade

https://mobile.twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/738785849135890433

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 01:54 PM
I wouldnt trade Cov or Sauce. how in the world is Teague and the 14th pick worth all of that? None of this makes any sense

Stunner
06-03-2016, 01:58 PM
ATL doesn't have the 14th pick , they have the 21st .

ewing
06-03-2016, 01:59 PM
Teague is much better then Ish Smith

GREATNESS ONE
06-03-2016, 02:04 PM
You can get more than that for Noel..

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 02:06 PM
ATL doesn't have the 14th pick , they have the 21st .

youre right. i still have that Bulls rumor in my head with the 14th.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 02:09 PM
Teague is much better then Ish Smith

sure hes better but its not some huge gap and Teague was playing with a damn good team. Ish averaged less turnovers, a full ast more and double the rebounds while scoring was about a point more for Teague. Really Teague is just a little more efficient but thats expected.

Alayla
06-03-2016, 02:47 PM
I wish people understood this is not about good or bad value or about overvaluing Noel or our bigs this is about Teague simply not being the right guy to go after.

ewing
06-03-2016, 02:47 PM
sure hes better but its not some huge gap and Teague was playing with a damn good team. Ish averaged less turnovers, a full ast more and double the rebounds while scoring was about a point more for Teague. Really Teague is just a little more efficient but thats expected.


Ish Smith cant hit a 16 footer and his #s are inflated by playing with an awful. team How many guys do you want on the team that can't shoot a jump shot?

IndyRealist
06-03-2016, 02:49 PM
**** all that. thats is the exact opposite of what we want and what hinkie layed out. We're not under any mandate to do anything, you dont trade a promising young Center for Jeff Teague who defines the word mediocre and has 1 year left. We should be pursing Schroeder not Teague

There's a reason Hinkie isn't calling the shots anymore in Philly. There is zero chance Colangelo ia going to "stick to the plan." He's there to get the Sixers in the playoffs.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 02:52 PM
There's a reason Hinkie isn't calling the shots anymore in Philly. There is zero chance Colangelo ia going to "stick to the plan." He's there to get the Sixers in the playoffs.

Hinkie is the reason Hinkie isnt calling the shots. BC and his daddy arent here to bring us right back to where we were before Hinkie got here.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 02:54 PM
Ish Smith cant hit a 16 footer and his #s are inflated by playing with an awful. team How many guys do you want on the team that can't shoot a jump shot?

What is inflated about his numbers? If he can get 7 with the Sixers dont you think he can do that or more with ATL in Teagues role? Teague is surely better overall but when you factor what Ish is better at and cost its really not that wide of a gap. Its not liek anyone is looking at Ish at as longterm solution, hes def best suited as a backup.

Alayla
06-03-2016, 03:10 PM
Ish smith is no where near as good as Teague just stop xD but I would still rather trade nothing and have Ish than trade Noel and have Teague.

ewing
06-03-2016, 03:10 PM
What is inflated about his numbers? If he can get 7 with the Sixers dont you think he can do that or more with ATL in Teagues role? Teague is surely better overall but when you factor what Ish is better at and cost its really not that wide of a gap. Its not liek anyone is looking at Ish at as longterm solution, hes def best suited as a backup.

he plays with a trash team that lets him dribble around a ton and try and make plays. If you asked him to play Teague's role he would be required to move the ball a lot sooner and hit jump shots and he would be awful. Dude is quick and can make some plays but once you put some other player makers on the team he loses value. Your bringing in Simmons and Saric and want them to handle the ball a bunch right? you want someone on the floor that can space and hit a jump shot right? The guy can't shoot

Alayla
06-03-2016, 03:11 PM
Hinkie is the reason Hinkie isnt calling the shots. BC and his daddy arent here to bring us right back to where we were before Hinkie got here.

Hinkie was effectively forced out.

ewing
06-03-2016, 03:14 PM
Hinkie was effectively forced out.


i called it getting fired btw thxs for admitting that Teague is way ahead of Ish. I know you are big Noel fan and don't want to move him for Teague but some stuff is just silly

Stunner
06-03-2016, 03:16 PM
Ish was doing the same stuff everywhere he played when given a Chance

SeoulBeatz
06-03-2016, 03:17 PM
I disagree. I do not think he is a starting quality center and he is close to unplayable in close late game situations. i feel he is very similarly about him as i do Clint Cappala. He has value but he allows the other team to clog the paint, to match up anyway they want, and to play anyone they want at 5. there is a difference b/t not being a big scorer and being a non threat. Noel is a non threat this makes him a situational player on a good team .

Hmm, in the few rockets games I watched this season Clint Capela was taken out of games because he's a 37% FT shooter. You can have a defensive minded center late in games if they are a passable free throw shooter.

Nerlens Noel is a 60%FT shooter, not a world beater by any means but not Drummond (36%FT), Jordan (42%FT), or Capela bad where you'd have to take him out late in games.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 03:18 PM
Ish smith is no where near as good as Teague just stop xD but I would still rather trade nothing and have Ish than trade Noel and have Teague.

no one said Ish is better just talking about how much better and its all in terms of rather playing Ish than Trading Noel or Teague

SeoulBeatz
06-03-2016, 03:19 PM
i called it getting fired btw thxs for admitting that Teague is way ahead of Ish. I know you are big Noel fan and don't want to move him for Teague but some stuff is just silly

that's one thing we can agree on, anyone saying ish is better than teague is out of their minds. They're on completely different levels.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 03:20 PM
Hinkie was effectively forced out.

eh no one forced him to leave. Its not like he would have been fired had he deicded to stay. He left bcuz he doesnt trust the FO or the Colangelos among other things. But thats a discussion for another day. I do see why others take the other view point though, i just disagree.

ewing
06-03-2016, 03:23 PM
Ish was doing the same stuff everywhere he played when given a Chance

the sixers are only team that's ever given him any burn. i doubt the guy averages over 3 points a game in non sixers career

ewing
06-03-2016, 03:31 PM
Hmm, in the few rockets games I watched this season Clint Capela was taken out of games because he's a 37% FT shooter. You can have a defensive minded center late in games if they are a passable free throw shooter.

Nerlens Noel is a 60%FT shooter, not a world beater by any means but not Drummond (36%FT), Jordan (42%FT), or Capela bad where you'd have to take him out late in games.

you are right Cappella is definitely worse. they remind me of each other b/c of size, athletism, and lack of offense. I still wouldn't want Noel on the floor at the end of games (on offensive.) He is a bad shooter and a non threat. at the end the games guys pass up looks, get tight, etc. I don't want a guy that can only score when spoon feed a dunk limiting my options more

Stunner
06-03-2016, 03:32 PM
the sixers are only team that's ever him any burn. i doubt the guy averages over 3 points a game in non sixers career

This is a silly post cuz he clearly could average more than 3 points if he played 15 mpg


And I said when he was given a chance as in some games where he played meaningful mins . He did it with the Pelicans last year as well.

You seen flashes in his early years with Hou / Phx too with his floor general ability . Scoring wise he sucks and not better teague . But by passing ability he's better than teague in that form .


He's just s backup pg not really meant to start games unless it's for a very limited time .

ewing
06-03-2016, 03:34 PM
This is a silly post cuz he clearly could average more than 3 points if he played 15 mpg


And I said when he was given a chance as in some games where he played meaningful mins . He did it with the Pelicans last year as well.

You seen flashes in his early years with Hou / Phx too with his floor general ability . Scoring wise he sucks and not better teague . But by passing ability he's better than teague in that form .


He's just s backup pg not really meant to start games unless it's for a very limited time .

whatever dude. run with Simmons, Noel, Ish, and Oka on the floor together. should work

IndyRealist
06-03-2016, 03:40 PM
Jeff Teague was an allstar a year ago. Ish Smith has been on 9 different teams in 6 years. Teague is a major upgrade, moreso than Noel will be over whoever will play his minutes.

Stunner
06-03-2016, 03:43 PM
take a away Philly and do the math

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4800/career/

He averaged

8.9 ppg with the Pelicans in 23 mpg 43% FG


4.5 ppg in GS playing 10 mins

6.1 ppg in Phx playing 14 and 15 mpg


You said he wouldn't average 3 points I listed more than 3 with three different teams . Don't know what you're trying to argue . I don't think the guy is a starter because of his inability to score efficiently. It's not hard to get more than 3 points by jacking shots if you're given the shot attempts .

Ish could be an meh ok back up on some teams if they actually payed him . But the same things have followed him his entire career in the NBA ; he can run a team but he can't score at good clip .


Again idk what we're arguing lol all I said he showed flashes of doing the same stuff he's doing now just on a much smaller sample size before . Nothing has changed with him outside just having more league experience.

Stunner
06-03-2016, 03:45 PM
whatever dude. run with Simmons, Noel, Ish, and Oka on the floor together. should work

Just going to stop talking to you lol you're getting hyped up for no reason . I already said he's not better than teague what more do you want . Have a good day

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 03:49 PM
trade Noel for one year of Teague or keep Noel and let Ish be a stop gap point guard for another year?

SeoulBeatz
06-03-2016, 03:49 PM
you are right Cappella is definitely worse. they remind me of each other b/c of size, athletism, and lack of offense. I still wouldn't want Noel on the floor at the end of games (on offensive.) He is a bad shooter and a non threat. at the end the games guys pass up looks, get tight, etc. I don't want a guy that can only score when spoon feed a dunk limiting my options more

Yeah i def see the Capela comparison. Guess we just disagree on philosophies. I think it's okay to have 1 big late in games if they can provide defense, rebounding, and make free throws at a non-atrocious rate. Noel is also a surprisingly good passer so that a nice bonus to compensate for lack of scoring.

Stunner
06-03-2016, 03:57 PM
trade Noel for one year of Teague or keep Noel and let Ish be a stop gap point guard for another year?

Stop gap , PG prospects are much better in next years draft . If they can't make a deal that makes sense or one that allows them to get Dunn or Murray this year don't move either one of em.


Moving Okafor is the best choice tho for philly .

ewing
06-03-2016, 04:01 PM
Yeah i def see the Capela comparison. Guess we just disagree on philosophies. I think it's okay to have 1 big late in games if they can provide defense, rebounding, and make free throws at a non-atrocious rate. Noel is also a surprisingly good passer so that a nice bonus to compensate for lack of scoring.

that's is surprising (and helpful). I don't think he can never be out there he just seems more situational to me. if the pace is up, he might be finding a bunch of dunks out there. I just honestly wouldn't want to have to trust him night in and out which way i don't think he is a legit starting center.

Alayla
06-03-2016, 04:09 PM
that's is surprising (and helpful). I don't think he can never be out there he just seems more situational to me. if the pace is up, he might be finding a bunch of dunks out there. I just honestly wouldn't want to have to trust him night in and out which way i don't think he is a legit starting center.

He is also 22 though its not as if his development is finished and its not out of the question for his game to round out.

akagiredsuns
06-03-2016, 04:24 PM
I think somebody like Eric Bledsoe is a better target.

After missing most of the season in Phoenix, Bledsoe is a piece of paper right now. He needs a whole season to heal up. Teague/Noel is a good deal. Schroeder is ready in ATL at PG and bringing Noel in, although defense not very good can still give you double doubles. Bledsoe is a liability not worth gambling on at this time.

TheDish87
06-03-2016, 04:26 PM
Noels defense isnt very good, what? Teague for Noel is not a good deal for hte Sixers no matter how you slice it.

RLundi
06-03-2016, 04:44 PM
Are people really arguing Ish ****ing Smith is a good player?

Alayla
06-03-2016, 05:21 PM
After missing most of the season in Phoenix, Bledsoe is a piece of paper right now. He needs a whole season to heal up. Teague/Noel is a good deal. Schroeder is ready in ATL at PG and bringing Noel in, although defense not very good can still give you double doubles. Bledsoe is a liability not worth gambling on at this time.

I would sooner gamble on bledsoe than take teague but i wouldnt be thrilled both ways i am not comfortable adding any 27 or 28 year old right now unless its a bonafied superstar such as curry or westbrook but those are majorly unrealistic so its best to stay young

hugepatsfan
06-03-2016, 05:29 PM
Would Avery Bradley and #23 be enough for Noel? Bradley is an all-NBA defender and signed for 2 more seasons at what I think is a bargain price of $8.5M/year. And then once he's a FA in the summer of '18 they can keep his bird rights with a cap hold of $12.3M, which is still pretty reasonable. So they can use cap space accounting for him at that number and then go over the cap to keep him. He'll be entering his age 28 season at that point (that's the season Teague is heading into now). He's all-NBA on defense and solid on offense. Decent 3 point shooter and can knock down shots off screens. The defense helps make ups or what they're losing with Noel.

Also Bradley was in position as the "vet" on the Celtics as they were developing so he can help bring some leadership to PHI even at a younger age.

Aust
06-03-2016, 05:45 PM
Are people really arguing Ish ****ing Smith is a good player?

I remember when the Lakers played Philly this season he was the worst player on the floor by light years lmao. Me and a family member were watching the game and laughing so hard the whole time at this guy. He was like 3-20, almost fouled out, got run over a few times. Nothing went right for him. I know it's just one game, but that one game really stuck with me.

LivinLakers
06-03-2016, 05:46 PM
I wouldn't do it. Why any Sixers fan would think that Bradley, or Teague, or even Clarkson for Noel is a good trade is beyond me.
Personally I think this is only out there because the Sixers are trying to drum up interest in Noel. There are probably a number of teams seeing this and saying...I can beat Teague for Noel. These deals almost never happen, but are a Segway to a better deal that comes later. If I were the Lakers I would offer Clarkson, our #32 pick, and Tarik Black, or any other player on the team other than Russell or Randle for him.

Forever35
06-03-2016, 05:57 PM
Would Avery Bradley and #23 be enough for Noel? Bradley is an all-NBA defender and signed for 2 more seasons at what I think is a bargain price of $8.5M/year. And then once he's a FA in the summer of '18 they can keep his bird rights with a cap hold of $12.3M, which is still pretty reasonable. So they can use cap space accounting for him at that number and then go over the cap to keep him. He'll be entering his age 28 season at that point (that's the season Teague is heading into now). He's all-NBA on defense and solid on offense. Decent 3 point shooter and can knock down shots off screens. The defense helps make ups or what they're losing with Noel.

Also Bradley was in position as the "vet" on the Celtics as they were developing so he can help bring some leadership to PHI even at a younger age.

I know it's a business, but I can't see DA banishing AB to purgatory... Sorry Philly fans...

From a deal standpoint that seems like a fair deal, but I would think Philly would rather have 16...

Alayla
06-03-2016, 07:24 PM
Would Avery Bradley and #23 be enough for Noel? Bradley is an all-NBA defender and signed for 2 more seasons at what I think is a bargain price of $8.5M/year. And then once he's a FA in the summer of '18 they can keep his bird rights with a cap hold of $12.3M, which is still pretty reasonable. So they can use cap space accounting for him at that number and then go over the cap to keep him. He'll be entering his age 28 season at that point (that's the season Teague is heading into now). He's all-NBA on defense and solid on offense. Decent 3 point shooter and can knock down shots off screens. The defense helps make ups or what they're losing with Noel.

Also Bradley was in position as the "vet" on the Celtics as they were developing so he can help bring some leadership to PHI even at a younger age.

This is very reasonable on paper I like it.

warfelg
06-03-2016, 07:45 PM
This is very reasonable on paper I like it.

I don't considering we were offered Smart and 6 at last years draft.

ewing
06-03-2016, 08:29 PM
Would Avery Bradley and #23 be enough for Noel? Bradley is an all-NBA defender and signed for 2 more seasons at what I think is a bargain price of $8.5M/year. And then once he's a FA in the summer of '18 they can keep his bird rights with a cap hold of $12.3M, which is still pretty reasonable. So they can use cap space accounting for him at that number and then go over the cap to keep him. He'll be entering his age 28 season at that point (that's the season Teague is heading into now). He's all-NBA on defense and solid on offense. Decent 3 point shooter and can knock down shots off screens. The defense helps make ups or what they're losing with Noel.

Also Bradley was in position as the "vet" on the Celtics as they were developing so he can help bring some leadership to PHI even at a younger age.

I like this deal better from a philly perspective. I don't see why Boston would do it. They cant shoot either. so they are losing one of the few guys they have that will hit a jump shot. he is also a ****ing pit bulls and gives you one elite perimeter defender to off set Isiah who has to play a ton and isn't a very good defender. the Celtics were also a very good defensive team this year without Noel. If they had Noel i think he would add to the big by committee thing they already have going and not solve any of there offensive problems

flea
06-03-2016, 08:32 PM
Are people really arguing Ish ****ing Smith is a good player?

They have watched the dregs of basketball so long that even a strong D-League caliber PG looks great.

Good deal for both teams IMO. Teague is a quality NBA starter but nothing special. I'm sure he'd rather spend the end of his prime on a real team but he's a good pro and would get the Sixers back to semblance of respectability. Plus he can serve as a mentor for whoever they get to follow him, and as more of a scoring PG he wouldn't be terrible as a 6th man once his starting days are over.

Easy decision for the Hawks. Schroder might be almost as good already and is clearly the future. They need athleticism in the frontcourt and a better ability to hang defensively and on the glass with teams that they can't outscore with their small lineup (ahem the Cavs). Noel is perfect for that, and they'd likely extend him whereas Philly likely wouldn't.

A player like Teague is probably the best the Sixers will get for Noel. I mean what sort of guards do Sixers fans think teams would trade for him? You're not going to get anything better than a mid-tier starting PG or maybe a young but unproven wing. Nobody is trading a guy like Middleton or Isaiah Thomas for Noel. Dragic could be a possibility if the Heat want Wade back and a more complementary backcourt mate - but IDK if they would do that even then.

valade16
06-03-2016, 08:33 PM
I don't considering we were offered Smart and 6 at last years draft.

Noah's value is also not as good as it was then.

hugepatsfan
06-03-2016, 08:34 PM
I like this deal better from a philly perspective. I don't see why Boston would do it. They cant shoot either. so they are losing one of the few guys they have that will hit a jump shot. he is also a ****ing pit bulls and gives you one elite perimeter defender to off set Isiah who has to play a ton and isn't a very good defender. the Celtics were also a very good defensive team this year without Noel. If they had Noel i think he would add to the big by committee they already have going and not solve any of there offensive problems

Well my idea was that we would draft Jamal Murray at #3 to take Bradley's place at SG who replaces and upgrades him offensively, while being a step back on D. So you replace the lost D on the perimeter by getting better in the front court which allows you to go for the improvement on offense.

The Celtics don't really have a glut of bigs. Sully and Zeller are RFAs that we're not expected to retain. Amir has $12M of non-guaranteed money. Jerebko has $5M of non-guaranteed money. Overall we were good on D but a rim protector is needed because we want to move on from Amir at PF and get someone who can shoot. Same reason or letting Sully go, also because he's fat and poorly conditioned.

ewing
06-03-2016, 08:44 PM
Well my idea was that we would draft Jamal Murray at #3 to take Bradley's place at SG who replaces and upgrades him offensively, while being a step back on D. So you replace the lost D on the perimeter by getting better in the front court which allows you to go for the improvement on offense.

The Celtics don't really have a glut of bigs. Sully and Zeller are RFAs that we're not expected to retain. Amir has $12M of non-guaranteed money. Jerebko has $5M of non-guaranteed money. Overall we were good on D but a rim protector is needed because we want to move on from Amir at PF and get someone who can shoot. Same reason or letting Sully go, also because he's fat and poorly conditioned.


makes some sense i really don't know much about Murray so i cant comment on the plan. i will say that Sullinger is a fat piece of dung. That dude really looks like he could be a quality NBA player but he is at least 30 pounds over weight at the end of the season.

LivinLakers
06-03-2016, 10:38 PM
[QUOTE=hugepatsfan;30963424]Well my idea was that we would draft Jamal Murray at #3 to take Bradley's place at SG who replaces and upgrades him offensively, while being a step back on D. So you replace the lost D on the perimeter by getting better in the front court which allows you to go for the improvement on offense.

The Celtics don't really have a glut of bigs. Sully and Zeller are RFAs that we're not expected to retain. Amir has $12M of non-guaranteed money. Jerebko has $5M of non-guaranteed money. Overall we were good on D but a rim protector is needed because we want to move on from Amir at PF and get someone who can shoot. Same reason or letting Sully go, also because he's fat and poorly conditioned.
The more I think about this trade the more I start to like it for both sides. I would still like to see a future pick coming back to Philly, but o think this move could benefit both teams.

Alayla
06-03-2016, 10:48 PM
I don't considering we were offered Smart and 6 at last years draft.

Edit just looked into that and that is not what the reports said at all

Smart and the Nos. 16 and 28 picks to the Philadelphia 76ers for center Nerlens Noel and the third overall selection, league executives told the Los Angeles Times.

The Sixers, per the Times’ sources, were not interested.

Very different if anything that's an insultingly lowball offer

Alayla
06-03-2016, 10:52 PM
They have watched the dregs of basketball so long that even a strong D-League caliber PG looks great.

Good deal for both teams IMO. Teague is a quality NBA starter but nothing special. I'm sure he'd rather spend the end of his prime on a real team but he's a good pro and would get the Sixers back to semblance of respectability. Plus he can serve as a mentor for whoever they get to follow him, and as more of a scoring PG he wouldn't be terrible as a 6th man once his starting days are over.

Easy decision for the Hawks. Schroder might be almost as good already and is clearly the future. They need athleticism in the frontcourt and a better ability to hang defensively and on the glass with teams that they can't outscore with their small lineup (ahem the Cavs). Noel is perfect for that, and they'd likely extend him whereas Philly likely wouldn't.

A player like Teague is probably the best the Sixers will get for Noel. I mean what sort of guards do Sixers fans think teams would trade for him? You're not going to get anything better than a mid-tier starting PG or maybe a young but unproven wing. Nobody is trading a guy like Middleton or Isaiah Thomas for Noel. Dragic could be a possibility if the Heat want Wade back and a more complementary backcourt mate - but IDK if they would do that even then.

Frankly I would rather trade Okafor than Noel in general but at least get someone young who can grow with the team even if they are not as good right now.

ewing
06-03-2016, 11:19 PM
[QUOTE=ewing;30963463]
The more I think about this trade the more I start to like it for both sides. I would still like to see a future pick coming back to Philly, but o think this move could benefit both teams.


Could be. It dependent on a big over haul from the Celts side though. I was thinking about him on the current celts team.

ewing
06-03-2016, 11:21 PM
Frankly I would rather trade Okafor than Noel in general but at least get someone young who can grow with the team even if they are not as good right now.

that makes sense but who fits that bill that Noel is going to fetch?

beasted86
06-04-2016, 08:54 AM
I love how people are trying to promote the defense of a player anchoring a bottom 5 defense and claiming he has such a tremendous impact.

It gets annoying listening to fans on here who can't speak to the outstanding abilities of a player without diving into hyperbole.

warfelg
06-04-2016, 09:05 AM
I love how people are trying to promote the defense of a player anchoring a bottom 5 defense and claiming he has such a tremendous impact.

It gets annoying listening to fans on here who can't speak to the outstanding abilities of a player without diving into hyperbole.

Yet despite that Noel has posted two DBPM seasons over 3.25.

beasted86
06-04-2016, 09:16 AM
Yet despite that Noel has posted two DBPM seasons over 3.25.

He's such a great defender that not one of the coaches believe he should get a single vote for all defensive team. And he's so great he's being mentioned in rumors for Teague.

It would be nice if you could wake up, please.

He can be a very good defender without having this nonsensical DPOY hyperbole.

da ThRONe
06-04-2016, 09:27 AM
Frankly I would rather trade Okafor than Noel in general but at least get someone young who can grow with the team even if they are not as good right now.

You would hope they won't stray too far away from Hinkie's vision. This trade should be for Schroder or there shouldn't be a trade with ATL and I'm not really all that high on Dennis. If you are looking at Simmons/Ingram, as the and Okafor/Embiid as the future why trade for Teague.

Stunner
06-04-2016, 09:30 AM
He's such a great defender that not one of the coaches believe he should get a single vote for all defensive team. And he's so great he's being mentioned in rumors for Teague.

It would be nice if you could wake up, please.

He can be a very good defender without having this nonsensical DPOY hyperbole.

Coaches also thought James Harden wasn't worth an all NBA team slot and Jimmy butler got 2nd team despite not being 2nd team all defense worthy this year . Oh Deandre Jordan made all first team NBA too , lol these some of these coaches aren't that bright so not the perfect argument .

warfelg
06-04-2016, 09:57 AM
Teams also thought James Harden wasn't worth an all NBA team slot and Jimmy butler got 2nd team despite not being 2nd team all defense worthy this year . Oh Deandre Jordan made all first team NBA too , lol these some of these coaches aren't that bright so not the perfect argument .

Exactly. Also 1 of 3 NBA Centers to have 10/8/1.5/1.5 in the first two seasons.

The other two?

Robinson and Hakeem.

https://twitter.com/joegigliosports/status/738788253499691008

But let's keep hearing how he isn't that good or not a great defensive player.

Edit:
Not only that he posted a DBPM despite playing half the season out of position, and having some of the worst defensive guards in the NBA (Ish, McConnell, Canaan, Stauskis).

hugepatsfan
06-04-2016, 10:07 AM
Noel is an elite defender. The issue is whether or not it's worth giving up a big package AND paying him huge money next year. Biyombo or Ezeli aren't as good but they can be had for just money, which most teams have available.

The trade I proposed earlier, Bradley/#16 for Noel, honestly now that I think about it, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather just sign Biyombo/Ezeli for the money I'd be giving Noel next year and get to keep the good/young/cheap SG. Just a better use of assets IMO. Noel is better than those guy but IMO not to the extent that it would make up for the package given to acquire him.

warfelg
06-04-2016, 10:10 AM
And to add:
DeAndre Jordan, 3.8 DBPM with a better team around him.
Hassan Whiteside, 3.4 DBPM with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

Done believe me? Scroll down on that link. Noel was 8th in DBPM (which tries to negate the team around but can't fully do that)

FOXHOUND
06-04-2016, 10:11 AM
Exactly. Also 1 of 3 NBA Centers to have 10/8/1.5/1.5 in the first two seasons.

The other two?

Robinson and Hakeem.

https://twitter.com/joegigliosports/status/738788253499691008

But let's keep hearing how he isn't that good or not a great defensive player.

Edit:
Not only that he posted a DBPM despite playing half the season out of position, and having some of the worst defensive guards in the NBA (Ish, McConnell, Canaan, Stauskis).

Don't compare Noel to those guys lol. :facepalm:

The 76ers have to repurpose their assets and they have to start winning some games so these young players actually know what that feels like. Teague would be a solid option to do that but if it's at the expense of Noel then I would agree that he isn't enough. They would also need draft compensation to make that move mutually beneficial.

Noel is a good option to trade since he's in the last year of his rookie contract and doesn't have as high a ceiling as Okafor or Embiid. Okafor is a good option to trade because his game is highly flawed and you need to build a team completely around him to make it work at this point. Embiid isn't an option to trade because no one would trade anything for him.

This is only step 1. If Embiid plays this year and does well then another trade will be on the horizon, because you can't start either him or Okafor at PF and you're back at logjam square one. Saric can be a good option to start at PF for all 3, since he can space the floor with his shooting.

warfelg
06-04-2016, 10:15 AM
Don't compare Noel to those guys lol. :facepalm:

The 76ers have to repurpose their assets and they have to start winning some games so these young players actually know what that feels like. Teague would be a solid option to do that but if it's at the expense of Noel then I would agree that he isn't enough. They would also need draft compensation to make that move mutually beneficial.

Noel is a good option to trade since he's in the last year of his rookie contract and doesn't have as high a ceiling as Okafor or Embiid. Okafor is a good option to trade because his game is highly flawed and you need to build a team completely around him to make it work at this point. Embiid isn't an option to trade because no one would trade anything for him.

This is only step 1. If Embiid plays this year and does well then another trade will be on the horizon, because you can't start either him or Okafor at PF and you're back at logjam square one. Saric can be a good option to start at PF for all 3, since he can space the floor with his shooting.

I didn't compare. He's one of three guys to achieve something. That. Can't be taken away.

FOXHOUND
06-04-2016, 10:56 AM
I didn't compare. He's one of three guys to achieve something. That. Can't be taken away.

:D

PTS/REB/STL/BLK averages over first two seasons.

Robinson - 25.0/12.5/1.6/3.9
Hakeem - 21.9/11.7/1.6/3.0
The Noel - 10.5/8.1/1.8/1.7

Those benchmarks are just really low and arbitrary. He's a very good ball thief for a big, that's for sure.

warfelg
06-04-2016, 11:29 AM
:D

PTS/REB/STL/BLK averages over first two seasons.

Robinson - 25.0/12.5/1.6/3.9
Hakeem - 21.9/11.7/1.6/3.0
The Noel - 10.5/8.1/1.8/1.7

Those benchmarks are just really low and arbitrary. He's a very good ball thief for a big, that's for sure.

I think it shows two things:
1) How great those two were.
2) Even when you drop those numbers to include Noel that no other NBA center meets that criteria is a little telling that Noel is special in come way.

FOXHOUND
06-04-2016, 11:40 AM
I think it shows two things:
1) How great those two were.
2) Even when you drop those numbers to include Noel that no other NBA center meets that criteria is a little telling that Noel is special in come way.

1) Aye
2) He's definitely special as a ball thief, since that's the only number that makes those arbitrary benchmarks relevant. It's a silly note by that reporter because they just clearly obliterate him in the other categories. If you go by just PTS/REB/BLK then you have guys like Shaq who did like 26/13/3 and even guys like Mutombo who did 15/12/3. He should have mentioned steals and nothing else, since he's not remotely close in anything else.

IndyRealist
06-04-2016, 11:51 AM
I think it shows two things:
1) How great those two were.
2) Even when you drop those numbers to include Noel that no other NBA center meets that criteria is a little telling that Noel is special in come way.

Not really. You can set cutoffs for all of these "one of five players to blah blah blah" and make a lot of players look good. Tyreke Evans was one of like four that averaged 20/5/5 his rookie year. How'd he turn out?

ewing
06-04-2016, 12:31 PM
with Ish being just as good as Teague and Noel being the 2nd coming of Hakeem and best defender in the league I'm left wondering how these guy only won like 17 games.

Stinkyoutsider
06-04-2016, 01:58 PM
I actually think this isn't a really bad deal for either team. Noel is part of a glut of centers in Philly and the Hawks need a change to get past the next level. Would be especially good for the Hawks if Teague was planning to bolt in free agency.

If the Hawks lose Horford, getting Noel to patrol the paint and shore up the interior defense would be a solid move. And for the Sixers, if Saric plans to come over at any time soon and if Joel can get healthy, one of the bigs need to be moved anyways. Seems like Philly would rather move Noel because low post scorers (Okafor) are hard to come by in today's league.

lavell12
06-04-2016, 02:13 PM
The more i think about it the more I think Philly will draft Ingram number 1. Trading Noel and keeping Oak makes sense in that regard. Ingram-Okaford, and Teague makes a good young 3 to build around. I like that better than Simmons-Noel-Teague.

beasted86
06-04-2016, 04:02 PM
I can't believe fans are really this deluded. You guys gotta be trolling or have a brain injury.

Not going to waste time poking through the numerous holes in your argument.

5ass
06-04-2016, 04:27 PM
with Ish being just as good as Teague and Noel being the 2nd coming of Hakeem and best defender in the league I'm left wondering how these guy only won like 17 games.

10 games LOL.



I think trading Noel is the way to go. At first I thought trading Okafor would make sense, but after thinking about it a little I think they should trade Noel. They tanked for stars and now they have to make a choice between Okafor and Noel. One of those two has the potential to be a superstar the other doesn't. Okafor really doesn't scream high work ethic, but that's what he needs to become a great player. That is why you need to surround him with some talent and get him used to winning ASAP. You want to nurture his development you give him some drive. People will say oh he'll never be a great defender. That's probably true, but it doesn't mean he can't improve. You look at Vucevic for example and how far his defense has come and its all thanks to his work ethic. He is more explosive, mobile and stronger than he used to be as a rookie. His IQ and effort (conditioning) are much better. Okafor has that same elite length and nimble feet to work with. At the end of the day the Magic were an average defensive team this year even though we started Channing Frye and Tobias Harris along side him while asking him to be the team's leading scorer and rebounder. When he had fresh legs to start the year and to end the year after resting for an injury he wasn't bad defensively and looked way more active. I'm just saying Okafor can make strides defensively, and you can pair him with some good defensive players to make it work. Unlikely to anchor an elite defensive team, but good enough.

warfelg
06-04-2016, 05:10 PM
I can't believe fans are really this deluded. You guys gotta be trolling or have a brain injury.

Not going to waste time poking through the numerous holes in your argument.

Then use stats and examples to prove it rather than make 3 comments and say it's not worth it.

Jamiecballer
06-04-2016, 05:33 PM
Gotta love the 76ers selling at the bottom of the market. Brilliant.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

flea
06-04-2016, 05:36 PM
10 games LOL.



I think trading Noel is the way to go. At first I thought trading Okafor would make sense, but after thinking about it a little I think they should trade Noel. They tanked for stars and now they have to make a choice between Okafor and Noel. One of those two has the potential to be a superstar the other doesn't. Okafor really doesn't scream high work ethic, but that's what he needs to become a great player. That is why you need to surround him with some talent and get him used to winning ASAP. You want to nurture his development you give him some drive. People will say oh he'll never be a great defender. That's probably true, but it doesn't mean he can't improve. You look at Vucevic for example and how far his defense has come and its all thanks to his work ethic. He is more explosive, mobile and stronger than he used to be as a rookie. His IQ and effort (conditioning) are much better. Okafor has that same elite length and nimble feet to work with. At the end of the day the Magic were an average defensive team this year even though we started Channing Frye and Tobias Harris along side him while asking him to be the team's leading scorer and rebounder. When he had fresh legs to start the year and to end the year after resting for an injury he wasn't bad defensively and looked way more active. I'm just saying Okafor can make strides defensively, and you can pair him with some good defensive players to make it work. Unlikely to anchor an elite defensive team, but good enough.

I agree. Some Sixers fans are all types of mixed up. Their guy drafts a 3rd center for his roster in the never-ending search for a star and after he's fired they want to keep a role player and trade the guy with star potential so they can "collect more assets" I guess.

And all based on the fact that he couldn't carry a team deliberately made to be awful to more than 10 wins in spite of only playing the 9th most minutes? Literally the only one of the 8 guys in front of him in minutes from last year deserving of starting on an NBA team ever is Noel. Yeah yeah we've heard about Covington, it's possible he can contribute as the 5th best starter on some team but if he were anything to care about he'd play more than 30 minutes per game on a team with literally nobody in front of him.

Okafor was the best player on a college title team, the same year that Towns's much more talented team lost to the one Duke beat in the Finals. He had a pretty good season for a 1st year scorer, especially in a league that stacks the deck against inside scorers. Even Lebron's team was pretty bad and his numbers pedestrian in his first year - and Lebron's team had 2 quality NBA bigs (Okafor's didn't even have a single guard you'd ever want in any NBA rotation).

Green_Monster
06-04-2016, 06:08 PM
I don't considering we were offered Smart and 6 at last years draft.

Where did you see that? The reported offer was Smart, #16, #28 for Noel and #3. It was a bad offer and got rejected.

cmellofan15
06-04-2016, 06:38 PM
Then use stats and examples to prove it rather than make 3 comments and say it's not worth it.

don't hold your breath if you're actually expecting some kind of basketball related rebuttal from him lmao

ewing
06-04-2016, 07:31 PM
10 games LOL.



I think trading Noel is the way to go. At first I thought trading Okafor would make sense, but after thinking about it a little I think they should trade Noel. They tanked for stars and now they have to make a choice between Okafor and Noel. One of those two has the potential to be a superstar the other doesn't. Okafor really doesn't scream high work ethic, but that's what he needs to become a great player. That is why you need to surround him with some talent and get him used to winning ASAP. You want to nurture his development you give him some drive. People will say oh he'll never be a great defender. That's probably true, but it doesn't mean he can't improve. You look at Vucevic for example and how far his defense has come and its all thanks to his work ethic. He is more explosive, mobile and stronger than he used to be as a rookie. His IQ and effort (conditioning) are much better. Okafor has that same elite length and nimble feet to work with. At the end of the day the Magic were an average defensive team this year even though we started Channing Frye and Tobias Harris along side him while asking him to be the team's leading scorer and rebounder. When he had fresh legs to start the year and to end the year after resting for an injury he wasn't bad defensively and looked way more active. I'm just saying Okafor can make strides defensively, and you can pair him with some good defensive players to make it work. Unlikely to anchor an elite defensive team, but good enough.


Wow I really over shot on that one. 10 games. amazing all these valuable assets :confused: :)

beasted86
06-04-2016, 09:35 PM
Then use stats and examples to prove it rather than make 3 comments and say it's not worth it.

How about you come up with a worthy, multi-layered argument first before I invest any time. The crux of your debate is "2 HOF players matched the same minimums..." and plus minus stats.

I mean, am I supposed to take that seriously? Wow.

Actually... No.... you know what? You win. My feeble mind cannot contradict your infallible judgement.

Nerlens Noel = Hakeem Olajuwan = David Robinson

Noel >>>>> Kawhi Leonard because DBPM says so.

TheDish87
06-05-2016, 10:44 AM
lol now we're homers for believing Noel is worth more than a mid pack PG who peaked with one year left on his deal.

beasted86
06-05-2016, 01:00 PM
lol now we're homers for believing Noel is worth more than a mid pack PG who peaked with one year left on his deal.

No, you're homers when you started claiming he was already a top 10 defensive player in the NBA and trying to make legit comparisons to Hakeem and D-Rob.

And I agree this trade doesn't make sense. Teague is a good PG, but he is a 1yr rental. They are better off signing a stop gap starter like Brandon Jennings or DJ Augustin to a 1yr overpay like $10M. It's beneficial to both parties and they are around the same age as Teague if they ended up looking like a good long term fit after all.

If I'm trading Noel it's for a younger player with longer term fit possibilities.

...And for the record, I already said Noel was a good defensive player. But I'm also saying your homer hyperbole is totally unnecessary.

eDush
06-05-2016, 01:32 PM
lol now we're homers for believing Noel is worth more than a mid pack PG who peaked with one year left on his deal.

No, you're homers when you started claiming he was already a top 10 defensive player in the NBA and trying to make legit comparisons to Hakeem and D-Rob.

And I agree this trade doesn't make sense. Teague is a good PG, but he is a 1yr rental. They are better off signing a stop gap starter like Brandon Jennings or DJ Augustin to a 1yr overpay like $10M. It's beneficial to both parties and they are around the same age as Teague if they ended up looking like a good long term fit after all.

If I'm trading Noel it's for a younger player with longer term fit possibilities.

...And for the record, I already said Noel was a good defensive player. But I'm also saying your homer hyperbole is totally unnecessary.
NOLA traded Noel plus another future unprotected pick for one year contract remaining of Jrue Holliday :nod: Based on that, they Sixers should include include their unprotected pick as well as Noel for Teague :laugh:

5ass
06-05-2016, 02:06 PM
NOLA traded Noel plus another future unprotected pick for one year contract remaining of Jrue Holliday :nod: Based on that, they Sixers should include include their unprotected pick as well as Noel for Teague :laugh:

Holiday was a 21 year old all star entering RFA. Teague has one year left then he's a 28 year old UFA.

warfelg
06-05-2016, 02:55 PM
Holiday was a 21 year old all star entering RFA. Teague has one year left then he's a 28 year old UFA.

He had already signed his contract when we traded him. He signed for 4 years $41mil in October the year before he was traded.

And his ASG was kinda accidental. Tons of EC PG's were hurt opening up the door for him.

But in consecutive years we did trade Jrue fresh off an ASG and Iggy fresh off an ASG and Olympic Gold Medal. LOL.

We definitely sold high on Jrue, but this would be selling low on Noel.

5ass
06-05-2016, 04:09 PM
He had already signed his contract when we traded him. He signed for 4 years $41mil in October the year before he was traded.

And his ASG was kinda accidental. Tons of EC PG's were hurt opening up the door for him.

But in consecutive years we did trade Jrue fresh off an ASG and Iggy fresh off an ASG and Olympic Gold Medal. LOL.

We definitely sold high on Jrue, but this would be selling low on Noel.

Jrue was very good for a young PG, all star or no allstar. He was on the same trajectory as John Wall at that point in time. IMO Jrue had more value than Teague currently has. I forgot that he signed an extension, so he had more value than I thought.

da ThRONe
06-05-2016, 04:35 PM
NOLA traded Noel plus another future unprotected pick for one year contract remaining of Jrue Holliday :nod: Based on that, they Sixers should include include their unprotected pick as well as Noel for Teague :laugh:

Not true Holiday had just signed an extension before we did the trade.

eDush
06-05-2016, 04:37 PM
Holiday was a 21 year old all star entering RFA. Teague has one year left then he's a 28 year old UFA.

He had already signed his contract when we traded him. He signed for 4 years $41mil in October the year before he was traded.

And his ASG was kinda accidental. Tons of EC PG's were hurt opening up the door for him.

But in consecutive years we did trade Jrue fresh off an ASG and Iggy fresh off an ASG and Olympic Gold Medal. LOL.

We definitely sold high on Jrue, but this would be selling low on Noel.
Noel is a bum, Jrue is not and to get him to sign for such a low extension, I would have given the Sixers 2 top picks and Noel for him at the time so you didn't sell high :nod:

5ass
06-05-2016, 04:52 PM
Can someone ban this guy? Lol

beasted86
06-05-2016, 05:37 PM
Can someone ban this guy? Lol

Trolling is how you build internet rep.

His swag level is a hundred thousand trillion.

TheDish87
06-05-2016, 06:34 PM
No, you're homers when you started claiming he was already a top 10 defensive player in the NBA and trying to make legit comparisons to Hakeem and D-Rob.

And I agree this trade doesn't make sense. Teague is a good PG, but he is a 1yr rental. They are better off signing a stop gap starter like Brandon Jennings or DJ Augustin to a 1yr overpay like $10M. It's beneficial to both parties and they are around the same age as Teague if they ended up looking like a good long term fit after all.

If I'm trading Noel it's for a younger player with longer term fit possibilities.

...And for the record, I already said Noel was a good defensive player. But I'm also saying your homer hyperbole is totally unnecessary.

I don't recall anyone saying Noel is a top 10 defensive player, he certainly has that potential, if not a little more. I think people do forget some of the crazy numbers Noel accomplished as a rookie, he prob should have been ROY or at the least much closer to winning it but that's another discussion.

eDush
06-05-2016, 06:46 PM
No, you're homers when you started claiming he was already a top 10 defensive player in the NBA and trying to make legit comparisons to Hakeem and D-Rob.

And I agree this trade doesn't make sense. Teague is a good PG, but he is a 1yr rental. They are better off signing a stop gap starter like Brandon Jennings or DJ Augustin to a 1yr overpay like $10M. It's beneficial to both parties and they are around the same age as Teague if they ended up looking like a good long term fit after all.

If I'm trading Noel it's for a younger player with longer term fit possibilities.

...And for the record, I already said Noel was a good defensive player. But I'm also saying your homer hyperbole is totally unnecessary.

I don't recall anyone saying Noel is a top 10 defensive player, he certainly has that potential, if not a little more. I think people do forget some of the crazy numbers Noel accomplished as a rookie, he prob should have been ROY or at the least much closer to winning it but that's another discussion.
That's cause he is not! Calling Noel top 10 defensive player in the league is like calling Anthony Bennett top 10 dunker in the league. Both are dumb statements to make.

The Cavs took Bennett #1 overall in the draft over Noel cause his upside potential is threw the roof while Noel is very limited :nod:

More-Than-Most
06-05-2016, 07:13 PM
I don't recall anyone saying Noel is a top 10 defensive player, he certainly has that potential, if not a little more. I think people do forget some of the crazy numbers Noel accomplished as a rookie, he prob should have been ROY or at the least much closer to winning it but that's another discussion.


Um I am arguing with most sixers fans now about Noel but saying he is a top 10 defensive player isnt that far fetched at all considering what he did defensively last season and the lack of talent around him then and now. Anyone questioning this is just trolling and or bad at following defensive out put... I am not saying he is a top 10 defensive player but when you factor in what he did last year with the lack of help he had I dont mind it... He is def a top 20 defensive player :shrug:

Khwai playing defense with what he has around him is far easier than playing defense with what Noel has around him... Same with a butler/james and so on down the list

Give me a top 10 defensive player from last year or this year that was better than Noel last year and had a similar or worse situation around him? This post isnt directed at you but to people in general.

eDush
06-05-2016, 07:38 PM
I don't recall anyone saying Noel is a top 10 defensive player, he certainly has that potential, if not a little more. I think people do forget some of the crazy numbers Noel accomplished as a rookie, he prob should have been ROY or at the least much closer to winning it but that's another discussion.


Um I am arguing with most sixers fans now about Noel but saying he is a top 10 defensive player isnt that far fetched at all considering what he did defensively last season and the lack of talent around him then and now. Anyone questioning this is just trolling and or bad at following defensive out put... I am not saying he is a top 10 defensive player but when you factor in what he did last year with the lack of help he had I dont mind it... He is def a top 20 defensive player :shrug:

Khwai playing defense with what he has around him is far easier than playing defense with what Noel has around him... Same with a butler/james and so on down the list

Give me a top 10 defensive player from last year or this year that was better than Noel last year and had a similar or worse situation around him? This post isnt directed at you but to people in general.
In other words, he is like a wannabe layman version of Biyombo which I am being very generous to not insult Biyombo cause he is my top big man to replace Bogut. Noel is not even on our radar for potential rim protectors this offseason and would rather keep Bogut if given the choice. Just being honest and I know players that are good fits for being Warriors as well as anyone:clap:

More-Than-Most
06-05-2016, 08:08 PM
lol i cant wait for one moronic team to jump out and throw a ton at Biyombo

I am an Embiid guys first so Noel is not on my favs list but give me Noel over Biyombo every day of the week and 1 million times on Sunday.

ewing
06-05-2016, 11:23 PM
In other words, he is like a wannabe layman version of Biyombo which I am being very generous to not insult Biyombo cause he is my top big man to replace Bogut. Noel is not even on our radar for potential rim protectors this offseason and would rather keep Bogut if given the choice. Just being honest and I know players that are good fits for being Warriors as well as anyone:clap:


i think the warriors would be foolish to replace Bogut with Noel. Noel might wind up being a good bit better but its win as much as possible right now for the Warriors.

beasted86
06-05-2016, 11:31 PM
I don't recall anyone saying Noel is a top 10 defensive player, he certainly has that potential, if not a little more. I think people do forget some of the crazy numbers Noel accomplished as a rookie, he prob should have been ROY or at the least much closer to winning it but that's another discussion.

Then check this very same thread. Probably page 1.

5ass
06-06-2016, 12:45 AM
lol i cant wait for one moronic team to jump out and throw a ton at Biyombo

I am an Embiid guys first so Noel is not on my favs list but give me Noel over Biyombo every day of the week and 1 million times on Sunday.

Agreed. Noel is a really good defender already, if he had some better teammates he could look like a top 10 defensive player IMO. He's still skinny and not very strong, but that's not a big issue most of the time.

More-Than-Most
06-06-2016, 01:01 AM
Then check this very same thread. Probably page 1.

and again if you would do your homework there is merit to it... Answer my question... of the top 10 defensive players currently which had a year similar to Noels but with a similar team or lack there of around him? But let me guess what you have around you doesnt matter when you defend right? Esp when you are a center? Noel was an insane defender 2 seasons ago on a team that had the least talent in all of basketball... Really think about that.

eDush
06-06-2016, 02:22 AM
In other words, he is like a wannabe layman version of Biyombo which I am being very generous to not insult Biyombo cause he is my top big man to replace Bogut. Noel is not even on our radar for potential rim protectors this offseason and would rather keep Bogut if given the choice. Just being honest and I know players that are good fits for being Warriors as well as anyone:clap:


i think the warriors would be foolish to replace Bogut with Noel. Noel might wind up being a good bit better but its win as much as possible right now for the Warriors.

Agreed even though I have no idea what ur last sentence was on. Bogut had like 5 blocks in 15 minutes against the mighty Cavs. I highly doubt Noel can do that which is why they had the worst record again this season:nod:

eDush
06-06-2016, 02:28 AM
lol i cant wait for one moronic team to jump out and throw a ton at Biyombo

I am an Embiid guys first so Noel is not on my favs list but give me Noel over Biyombo every day of the week and 1 million times on Sunday.

Agreed. Noel is a really good defender already, if he had some better teammates he could look like a top 10 defensive player IMO. He's still skinny and not very strong, but that's not a big issue most of the time.
I'm talking on man defense which is like ISO on offense, not team defense which mean it has nothing to do with your teammates. If you stop being a homer for once, you will know Noel can not even touch Iggy when it comes to on man defense :nod:

More-Than-Most
06-06-2016, 02:43 AM
I'm talking on man defense which is like ISO on offense, not team defense which mean it has nothing to do with your teammates. If you stop being a homer for once, you will know Noel can not even touch Iggy when it comes to on man defense :nod:

A homer? I DONT LIKE NOEL lol.... I dont want him at the price he will covet... I am an embiid guy... I think OKA has more value than Noel but again you are clearly underrating his man defense

raiderposting
06-06-2016, 03:13 AM
A homer? I DONT LIKE NOEL lol.... I dont want him at the price he will covet... I am an embiid guy... I think OKA has more value than Noel but again you are clearly underrating his man defense

Embiid lmao. Let's see him play 20+ games next season.

More-Than-Most
06-06-2016, 03:30 AM
Embiid lmao. Let's see him play 20+ games next season.

Hopefully... His injuries/lack of play means nothing to me and it shouldnt mean anything to anyone else when looking at potential.... The same crew who were saying to trade him for a 2nd rounder... he has missed what 2 seasons and yet somehow he just turned 22... Think about that. I never said he is/will be great I said he has more potential than most of the people drafted top 5 over the past 5 plus years... Will that potential turn into something? It depends if he can stay healthy :shrug:

beasted86
06-06-2016, 03:41 AM
and again if you would do your homework there is merit to it... Answer my question... of the top 10 defensive players currently which had a year similar to Noels but with a similar team or lack there of around him? But let me guess what you have around you doesnt matter when you defend right? Esp when you are a center? Noel was an insane defender 2 seasons ago on a team that had the least talent in all of basketball... Really think about that.

Look, at the end of the day the Sixers were bottom 5 defensively.

We won't know for sure where Noel ranks with a better team around him. Nonetheless I feel a top 10 defensive player, especially at the Center position would have a greater impact on team defense to improve the team overall.

His individual defensive tracking stats don't point towards him being top 10 and overall I feel like I'm wasting time even answering you considering you've eluded to him being better than Kawhi.

Good night.

More-Than-Most
06-06-2016, 04:00 AM
Look, at the end of the day the Sixers were bottom 5 defensively.

We won't know for sure where Noel ranks with a better team around him. Nonetheless I feel a top 10 defensive player, especially at the Center position would have a greater impact on team defense to improve the team overall.

His individual defensive tracking stats don't point towards him being top 10 and overall I feel like I'm wasting time even answering you considering you've eluded to him being better than Kawhi.

Good night.

So that is what you do huh? When you have no rebuttal for an argument or factual information to back up your view point you put words into peoples mouths? When did I ever even remotely say that? I think Kawhi is the best defender in the NBA or at least top 3... I said Noel is around the top 10... So in your mind that means I said Noel-------->Khawi?

That being said in case you need more because you know I like to add some weight to what I am in turn saying you can just read one of these recent articles.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2016/01/20/nerlens-noel-is-the-versatile-defensive-monster/

Aust
06-06-2016, 04:30 AM
I remember reading some stat about Noel a long time ago(IIRC before last season) that basically said he alone raised the 76ers defense by a ton. Basically from the bottom 3rd of the league to the middle or top 3rd.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 05:45 AM
I remember reading some stat about Noel a long time ago(IIRC before last season) that basically said he alone raised the 76ers defense by a ton. Basically from the bottom 3rd of the league to the middle or top 3rd.

Last year we were 11th in the NBA defensively. We were 2nd with Noel on the court, 25th without him.

This year, without Noel on the court we were the 5th worst defensive team historically. With him we were 10th worst in the NBA.

That's how much of an impact he has on us defensively.

It's amazing how people look at a team stat and attribute it to one guy without doing any research to discover Okafor had one of the bottom ten rookie defensive seasons in the history of the NBA. Which had maybe just a little impact on our team defense. Add in terrible defense from McConnell, Ish, Staus, Canaan, Landry, Holmes, Marshall and it's easy to see why as a team our defense was so terrible.

Yet despite that Noel's BDPM (which measures the individual players defensive impact on the box score) was a 3.4. Many Sixers writers have written about how it's almost impossible to be such a high positive DBPM when the team defense is so bad and how it reflects on that player being really special.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 08:54 AM
That's cause he is not! Calling Noel top 10 defensive player in the league is like calling Anthony Bennett top 10 dunker in the league. Both are dumb statements to make.

The Cavs took Bennett #1 overall in the draft over Noel cause his upside potential is threw the roof while Noel is very limited :nod:

go away.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 08:57 AM
and again if you would do your homework there is merit to it... Answer my question... of the top 10 defensive players currently which had a year similar to Noels but with a similar team or lack there of around him? But let me guess what you have around you doesnt matter when you defend right? Esp when you are a center? Noel was an insane defender 2 seasons ago on a team that had the least talent in all of basketball... Really think about that.

thats not really a reason to claim hes top 10, hes not and you even said hes not but has the potential and thats accurate.

eDush
06-06-2016, 09:50 AM
Look, at the end of the day the Sixers were bottom 5 defensively.

We won't know for sure where Noel ranks with a better team around him. Nonetheless I feel a top 10 defensive player, especially at the Center position would have a greater impact on team defense to improve the team overall.

His individual defensive tracking stats don't point towards him being top 10 and overall I feel like I'm wasting time even answering you considering you've eluded to him being better than Kawhi.

Good night.

So that is what you do huh? When you have no rebuttal for an argument or factual information to back up your view point you put words into peoples mouths? When did I ever even remotely say that? I think Kawhi is the best defender in the NBA or at least top 3... I said Noel is around the top 10... So in your mind that means I said Noel-------->Khawi?

That being said in case you need more because you know I like to add some weight to what I am in turn saying you can just read one of these recent articles.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2016/01/20/nerlens-noel-is-the-versatile-defensive-monster/
Yes Kawhi is much better than Noel on man defense but saying Noel is like a top 10 defender is bs! The Warriors has 3 defenders that is better than Noel in Iggy, Dray and Kray. Adams is a better defender. Tristen is a better defender. Even Favors is arguably a better defender than him too. If you are referring to top 10 shot blockers than yes, Noel is in there but you didn't.

SeoulBeatz
06-06-2016, 11:02 AM
Last year we were 11th in the NBA defensively. We were 2nd with Noel on the court, 25th without him.

This year, without Noel on the court we were the 5th worst defensive team historically. With him we were 10th worst in the NBA.

That's how much of an impact he has on us defensively.

It's amazing how people look at a team stat and attribute it to one guy without doing any research to discover Okafor had one of the bottom ten rookie defensive seasons in the history of the NBA. Which had maybe just a little impact on our team defense. Add in terrible defense from McConnell, Ish, Staus, Canaan, Landry, Holmes, Marshall and it's easy to see why as a team our defense was so terrible.

Yet despite that Noel's BDPM (which measures the individual players defensive impact on the box score) was a 3.4. Many Sixers writers have written about how it's almost impossible to be such a high positive DBPM when the team defense is so bad and how it reflects on that player being really special.

It's also important to note that Noel is most effective from the C position. That's why we had the 2nd best defense in the league with Noel on the court in 2015, he makes an incredible impact when he can play safety in the paint by picking passes and blocking shots.

This year, the defense was awful and that was partly due to Noel playing PF while being forced to go out and guard stretch fours/wing players. Okafor was the C because he's not nearly as mobile as Noel and consequently Noel's rebounding and block numbers took a hit.

It's pretty clear they aren't the best fit with one another. Embiid is the only big on our roster who can stretch the floor so either Nerls or Oak's gotta go, just not for Teague.

SeoulBeatz
06-06-2016, 11:29 AM
Yes Kawhi is much better than Noel on man defense but saying Noel is like a top 10 defender is bs! The Warriors has 3 defenders that is better than Noel in Iggy, Dray and Kray. Adams is a better defender. Tristen is a better defender. Even Favors is arguably a better defender than him too. If you are referring to top 10 shot blockers than yes, Noel is in there but you didn't.

Oh no doubt Kawhi is better than Noel. As are Iggy, Bogut, and Dray.

Tristan Thompson is definitely not better on the defensive end nor is Favors. A better example would be Gobert, who I believe is the best young defensive big in the league.

But yeah, I would say Noel is certainly a top 30 defender, arguably top 20.

DBPM is a great way to see a defender's individual impact. It's hard to argue with this list of some of the best defensive seasons of all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dbpm_season.html

warfelg
06-06-2016, 11:55 AM
Oh no doubt Kawhi is better than Noel. As are Iggy, Bogut, and Dray.

Tristan Thompson is definitely not better on the defensive end nor is Favors. A better example would be Gobert, who I believe is the best young defensive big in the league.

But yeah, I would say Noel is certainly a top 30 defender, arguably top 20.

DBPM is a great way to see a defender's individual impact. It's hard to argue with this list of some of the best defensive seasons of all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dbpm_season.html

Yup. And I think that some people don't understand how to read DBPM.

Good C/PFs are 3-4. Great at 4+.

Wings are 1-2, with the great having 2+.

DBPM measure of good depends on where you play on the court.

JOSKOMANG4
06-06-2016, 12:34 PM
what are the thoughts about about a Noel, Staukus, Covington & 1st overall for Brandon Knight, TJ Warren, 4th & 13th overall pick?

Suns lineup: C-Chandler PF-Noel SF-Ben Simmons(1st overall) SG-Booker PG- Bledsoe

Sixers Lineup: C-Embiid/PF-Okafur/SF-Warren/SG-Knight/PG-Dunn(4th overall).

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 12:51 PM
we're having a similar discussion in our thread about a Suns deal. someone suggested Okafor for Knight and 4 and i would prob add 24 and 26 or a future lottery protected first in too but no way in hell would we be trading both Noel and the 1st overall pick.

Sixers could go with

Knight
Heild at #4
Ingram at #1
Saric
Noel/Embiid

OR

Knight
Heild
Covington
Simmons/Saric
Noel/Embiid

Stunner
06-06-2016, 12:56 PM
Terrible trade

ewing
06-06-2016, 12:59 PM
we're having a similar discussion in our thread about a Suns deal. someone suggested Okafor for Knight and 4 and i would prob add 24 and 26 or a future lottery protected first in too but no way in hell would we be trading both Noel and the 1st overall pick.

Sixers could go with

Knight
Heild at #4
Ingram at #1
Saric
Noel/Embiid

OR

Knight
Heild
Covington
Simmons/Saric
Noel/Embiid


are you serious?

IndyRealist
06-06-2016, 01:00 PM
Since a lot of people are using it, I would like someone knowlegable to explain BPM.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 01:03 PM
are you serious?

why wouldn't i be? whats wrong with that as a potential deal?

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 01:04 PM
Terrible trade

for who?

Stunner
06-06-2016, 01:06 PM
Not your post

warfelg
06-06-2016, 01:10 PM
what are the thoughts about about a Noel, Staukus, Covington & 1st overall for Brandon Knight, TJ Warren, 4th & 13th overall pick?

Suns lineup: C-Chandler PF-Noel SF-Ben Simmons(1st overall) SG-Booker PG- Bledsoe

Sixers Lineup: C-Embiid/PF-Okafur/SF-Warren/SG-Knight/PG-Dunn(4th overall).

Not even worth rebutting so bad.

Heck I wouldn't even give up #1 alone for Knight, Warren, 4, 16.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 01:13 PM
Not your post

got ya. im sure it was to the suns guy.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 01:13 PM
Since a lot of people are using it, I would like someone knowlegable to explain BPM.

It's Plus/Minus, but rather than just overall on the team, BPM takes the players individual player and their box score and how it impacted the teams overall performance. PM looks at their impact on the game and doesn't account for what other players on the court does.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 01:18 PM
we're having a similar discussion in our thread about a Suns deal. someone suggested Okafor for Knight and 4 and i would prob add 24 and 26 or a future lottery protected first in too but no way in hell would we be trading both Noel and the 1st overall pick.

Sixers could go with

Knight
Heild at #4
Ingram at #1
Saric
Noel/Embiid

OR

Knight
Heild
Covington
Simmons/Saric
Noel/Embiid

You are the first person to add to that and hell no we shouldn't add 24/26 and I'm not even touching the future lotto protect pick part.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 01:18 PM
PHX would be so dumb to do Knight/#4 for Okafor.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 01:19 PM
Not as dumb as PHI would be to do that other trade tho lol

warfelg
06-06-2016, 01:22 PM
PHX would be so dumb to do Knight/#4 for Okafor.

On the surface it one of the deals that's more logical though.

beasted86
06-06-2016, 01:34 PM
Last year we were 11th in the NBA defensively. We were 2nd with Noel on the court, 25th without him.

This year, without Noel on the court we were the 5th worst defensive team historically. With him we were 10th worst in the NBA.

That's how much of an impact he has on us defensively.

It's amazing how people look at a team stat and attribute it to one guy without doing any research to discover Okafor had one of the bottom ten rookie defensive seasons in the history of the NBA. Which had maybe just a little impact on our team defense. Add in terrible defense from McConnell, Ish, Staus, Canaan, Landry, Holmes, Marshall and it's easy to see why as a team our defense was so terrible.

Yet despite that Noel's BDPM (which measures the individual players defensive impact on the box score) was a 3.4. Many Sixers writers have written about how it's almost impossible to be such a high positive DBPM when the team defense is so bad and how it reflects on that player being really special.

11th in defense? In what category? 2nd in what category? Whatever article you're referenced this from is incorrect or maybe you misunderstood.

DBPM does NOT measure individual defense at all. Please do more research. The only thing that measures individual defense are tracking stats and raw stats, and both still leave a lot to the imagination as to how those numbers correlate to the team concept.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 01:43 PM
You are the first person to add to that and hell no we shouldn't add 24/26 and I'm not even touching the future lotto protect pick part.

if we are picking 1/4 im not worried about 24/26 at all.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 01:48 PM
On the surface it one of the deals that's more logical though.

It's only logical from PHI's end. PHX is giving up too much. It's not worth it at all and therefore not logical.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 01:56 PM
11th in defense? In what category? 2nd in what category? Whatever article you're referenced this from is incorrect or maybe you misunderstood.

DBPM does NOT measure individual defense at all. Please do more research. The only thing that measures individual defense are tracking stats and raw stats, and both still leave a lot to the imagination as to how those numbers correlate to the team concept.


Box Plus/Minus (BPM) is a box score-based metric for evaluating basketball players' quality and contribution to the team. It is the latest version of a stat previously called Advanced Statistical Plus/Minus; it is NOT a version of Adjusted Plus/Minus, which is a play-by-play regression metric.

BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.

Reads like an individual stay to me.

Here's the full article from the place that developed the stat:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

warfelg
06-06-2016, 02:01 PM
It's only logical from PHI's end. PHX is giving up too much. It's not worth it at all and therefore not logical.

Just as much as we need to move one of our bigs, PHX has to move a G or the pick. If bender isn't there, the next best prospects are Murray/Dunn/Hield/Chriss (possibly). And with Booker and Bledsoe it makes most sense to use the pick and a player to go out and get a big.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 02:08 PM
Just as much as we need to move one of our bigs, PHX has to move a G or the pick. If bender isn't there, the next best prospects are Murray/Dunn/Hield/Chriss (possibly). And with Booker and Bledsoe it makes most sense to use the pick and a player to go out and get a big.

There's no reason why they should give up both though. You move either the pick or a guard (probably Knight) for a big. That would be overpaying for Okafor by a vast amount.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 02:17 PM
There's no reason why they should give up both though. You move either the pick or a guard (probably Knight) for a big. That would be overpaying for Okafor by a vast amount.

I honestly think a lot of you are undervaluing Okafor by a massive amount. That pick isn't that valuable. Yea you can say it's a top 5 pick but this draft is a massive crapshoot after 2. In fact I've heard lots of teams are look at those picks all with the same value.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 02:27 PM
I honestly think a lot of you are undervaluing Okafor by a massive amount. That pick isn't that valuable. Yea you can say it's a top 5 pick but this draft is a massive crapshoot after 2. In fact I've heard lots of teams are look at those picks all with the same value.

I agree that the pick isn't that valuable but seems like the consensus of analysts on Okafor's value are more in line with what the "lot of us" think than what you do. Ultimately it only takes one team to absolutely love him and overpay but it seems like the general consensus is more on our side than yours and that you in fact are the one misjudging his value. But again, it only takes one team so we'll see.

Okafor is good at low post scoring and can drive to the hoop pretty well from a face up position. That's the full extent of things that he's good at. Not a good rebounder. Bad defender at the basket and away from it. Doesn't pass the ball exceptionally well for a big (which is what you'd want from a high usage big). Doesn't shoot well from the outside to help space the floor while others have the ball. I (and others) just don't see the value that you seem to. Good piece and worth something. I think most agree that one of the non #1 or #2 picks isn't fair value - he's a better piece than the players of that range in this draft - but the difference isn't close to what you think it is, at least according to the vast majority of other observers. He's worth a high pick plus more but you exaggerate what the "more" is IMO. It's tough to find an exact match of the "more" so you guys are probably going to end up getting a little more than you should or a little less. And considering all the warts he has, I don't think the market will be strong enough to get the more than you should, so you'll end up settling for a little less than his full fair value is since keeping him isn't an option.

That's just my opinion of course (though i think shared by many neutral observers) and of course, as I said, it only takes one team to love him so much that they overpay. Which is why I'm sure your GM is leaving no stones unturned.

Aust
06-06-2016, 02:32 PM
That PHX PHI trade is insanely lopsided. Phoenix could trade one or both assets and be better off.

ewing
06-06-2016, 02:40 PM
Noel is worth way more then a quality starting point who is 28. Okafor is worth a 25 year starting PG that finished last year averaging 19 a night plus the #4 pick in the draft and Ish Smith is almost as good as Jeff Teague but the Sixers only won 10 games last year. OK got it.

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 02:47 PM
Noel is worth way more then a quality starting point who is 28.

That's not what they're saying. It's not about "more" as much as it's about different. They're jut saying that the trade doesn't make sense for them at this juncture. I think the fans in here have even said that they'd prefer a LESSER player that better fit their timeline to compete. Which is 1000% reasonable.


Okafor is worth a 25 year starting PG that finished last year averaging 19 a night plus the #4 pick in the draft and Ish Smith is almost as good as Jeff Teague but the Sixers only won 10 games last year. OK got it.

OK I agree with you on Okafor. Seems that some of the PHI fans here are over-valuing him but I think that's pretty natural. I feel like most fans would do the same. I know I sometimes have to put in perspective how much I value Celtics players to make sure I'm not getting carried away. You get an emotional attachment to guys and overlook their flaws in favor of their strengths when in reality you need to consider both in conjunction with each other.

The Ish Smith comment is absurd on face value but I think the poster who said it was trying to emphasize what I outlined in the first part of this response and used a little hyperbole. At least I hope that's what it was since Smith is no where near as good as Teague lol

ewing
06-06-2016, 02:57 PM
why wouldn't i be? whats wrong with that as a potential deal?

nothing if your the sixers.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 02:57 PM
Okafor has range out to 18 feet and his fine with rebounding and was solid from the foul line. I mean Porzingis was praised for being some kind of monster when he grabbed 7.3 rebs to Okafors 7 and 1.9 blks to Oaks 1.2. Those are pretty solid averages for rookies.

now Knight also put up good numbers on a **** team but he shot only 41% from the floor which is his career avg and he had 5 assists to nearly 3.5 turnovers per game. I think adding in another player from the sixers like maybe Stauskus as bench guard would balance it a little more and im ok with adding a pick

ewing
06-06-2016, 03:00 PM
Okafor has range out to 18 feet and his fine with rebounding and was solid from the foul line. I mean Porzingis was praised for being some kind of monster when he grabbed 7.3 rebs to Okafors 7 and 1.9 blks to Oaks 1.2. Those are pretty solid averages for rookies.


I like Okafor. I wouldn't trade him b/c his up side is higher then his value right now. that said he is still a quesiton mark. Knight is not and is damn good. you are not getting Knight and the #4 for Okafor

IndyRealist
06-06-2016, 03:03 PM
It's Plus/Minus, but rather than just overall on the team, BPM takes the players individual player and their box score and how it impacted the teams overall performance. PM looks at their impact on the game and doesn't account for what other players on the court does.

But it's not a plus/minus stat, it's a weighted, cumulative box score stat. It uses a ridge regression to TRY to separate a player from hus teammates, but I'm not convinced it does. Every metric tries to do that in some form.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 03:05 PM
I like Okafor. I wouldn't trade him b/c his up side is higher then his value right now. that said he is still a quesiton mark. Knight is not and is damn good. you are not getting Knight and the #4 for Okafor

i prefer to keep all of our bigs until the deadline at the earliest. But PHX has to make a move with their guards too and Okafor fits very well with Booker and Bledsoe. It really depends on how much the Suns value whatever player at 4. I dont think a deal centered around that would be all that far off.

eDush
06-06-2016, 03:06 PM
Noel is worth way more then a quality starting point who is 28. Okafor is worth a 25 year starting PG that finished last year averaging 19 a night plus the #4 pick in the draft and Ish Smith is almost as good as Jeff Teague but the Sixers only won 10 games last year. OK got it.
Only a big time homer would say Ish is almost as good as Teague :laugh: Maybe almost as good for Amish people but not for us Quakers.

SeoulBeatz
06-06-2016, 03:13 PM
That's not what they're saying. It's not about "more" as much as it's about different. They're jut saying that the trade doesn't make sense for them at this juncture. I think the fans in here have even said that they'd prefer a LESSER player that better fit their timeline to compete. Which is 1000% reasonable.



OK I agree with you on Okafor. Seems that some of the PHI fans here are over-valuing him but I think that's pretty natural. I feel like most fans would do the same. I know I sometimes have to put in perspective how much I value Celtics players to make sure I'm not getting carried away. You get an emotional attachment to guys and overlook their flaws in favor of their strengths when in reality you need to consider both in conjunction with each other.

The Ish Smith comment is absurd on face value but I think the poster who said it was trying to emphasize what I outlined in the first part of this response and used a little hyperbole. At least I hope that's what it was since Smith is no where near as good as Teague lol

Good post. Noel is more about fit. Teague is a very good player, it's just that he'd be wasting his remaining prime years on a fringe playoff team (at best) if he comes here. 28 isn't old by any means but I'd be looking for an average PG who's a few years younger if we're going to invest in him.

It's best for the Sixer's to wait until next year to draft their PG of the future and sign a stop gap PG in the meantime a la DJ Augustin or Jeremy Lin (lols).

As for Oak, yeah, he's not worth #4 AND Knight. I'd do Oak for Knight straight up though. He's only 24 and is the type of combo guard that would fit perfectly next to Simmons.

and yeah, whoever said Ish Smith is nearly as good as Teague is on something.

But Jesus, this is a lot of trash talking coming from a Knicks fan...
I love KP's game, hell of a player and he could redefine the big man position, but you guys finished dead last in the East last year. You then signed Robin Lopez, Afflalo, and Quinn in hopes of making a playoff push before Melo washes up and still finished 13th in the East this year. Both of our teams suck, it's kind of silly to talk **** just because your team sucks slightly less.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 03:14 PM
Only a big time homer would say Ish is almost as good as Teague :laugh: Maybe almost as good for Amish people but not for us Quakers.

literally no one said that, give it a rest. See HugePatsFan post on the last page that summed up what we are trying to say.

SeoulBeatz
06-06-2016, 03:22 PM
literally no one said that, give it a rest. See HugePatsFan post on the last page that summed up what we are trying to say.

Yeah, a Celtics fan defending the Sixer's fanbase.... what is the world coming to?

ewing
06-06-2016, 03:34 PM
i prefer to keep all of our bigs until the deadline at the earliest. But PHX has to make a move with their guards too and Okafor fits very well with Booker and Bledsoe. It really depends on how much the Suns value whatever player at 4. I dont think a deal centered around that would be all that far off.


i don't think you could get Knight by himself. that said i like Okafor and wouldn't trade him. I just don't think there is anyway you get that kind of haul for him.

eDush
06-06-2016, 03:47 PM
literally no one said that, give it a rest. See HugePatsFan post on the last page that summed up what we are trying to say.

Yeah, a Celtics fan defending the Sixer's fanbase.... what is the world coming to?Exectly and it was Ewing who post that absurd comment like someone who is clueless about NBA as he can't figure out why they only won 10 games. This clown is trying to hype every Sixers player :laugh:

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 03:51 PM
Exectly and it was Ewing who post that absurd comment like someone who is clueless about NBA as he can't figure out why they only won 10 games. This clown is trying to hype every Sixers player :laugh:

what in the world are you talking about?

hugepatsfan
06-06-2016, 04:04 PM
Okafor has range out to 18 feet and his fine with rebounding and was solid from the foul line. I mean Porzingis was praised for being some kind of monster when he grabbed 7.3 rebs to Okafors 7 and 1.9 blks to Oaks 1.2. Those are pretty solid averages for rookies.

now Knight also put up good numbers on a **** team but he shot only 41% from the floor which is his career avg and he had 5 assists to nearly 3.5 turnovers per game. I think adding in another player from the sixers like maybe Stauskus as bench guard would balance it a little more and im ok with adding a pick

Okafor from 10-16 feet last year shot 35.3%. From 16 to 3 point he shot 27.4%. To say he has range out to 18 feet is a gross misstatement. Maybe in time he can develop that range but he certainly does not have it right now.

Porzingis rebounded a lot better on the defensive glass. His defensive rebound rate was 3% higher. His offensive rebound rate was less, which makes sense considering he spends more time away from the basket. And you used per game averages on blocks. Okafor played more minutes. Per 36 Porzingis averaged 2.4 blocks to Okafor's 1.4.

Stauskas isn't very good - just a generic 9th or 10th man - and late picks are worth nothing to a team in PHX that already has a good amount. That proposal is essentially no different than not including them.

Knight shoots 41% overall which isn't great but you have to factor in that a substantial amount if his shots (39.2%) are from 3, where he shot a decent percentage even in a down year for him in that regard (last year was uncharacteristically low for him but not too drastically to where it's at all alarming).

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 04:11 PM
eh Oaks range showed as the year went on, i was impressed and i expect that to continue trending up next season although i would have though his % were better so thats interesting to see. Sauce showed some solid improvement as the season progressed to and should be able to become a 6-8th man (prob the ladder), next season is important for him to show some more. Sauce was a guy most went back and forth on, you can see the flashes of what he was able to do in college just needs to tie it all together but i do think he has a future in the league as a potential solid bench guy. I guess it comes down to if the Suns want to rid themselves of Knights deal too but i dont think they are in bad shape with the cap.

SeoulBeatz
06-06-2016, 04:12 PM
Okafor from 10-16 feet last year shot 35.3%. From 16 to 3 point he shot 27.4%. To say he has range out to 18 feet is a gross misstatement. Maybe in time he can develop that range but he certainly does not have it right now.

Porzingis rebounded a lot better on the defensive glass. His defensive rebound rate was 3% higher. His offensive rebound rate was less, which makes sense considering he spends more time away from the basket. And you used per game averages on blocks. Okafor played more minutes. Per 36 Porzingis averaged 2.4 blocks to Okafor's 1.4.

Stauskas isn't very good - just a generic 9th or 10th man - and late picks are worth nothing to a team in PHX that already has a good amount. That proposal is essentially no different than not including them.

Knight shoots 41% overall which isn't great but you have to factor in that a substantial amount if his shots (39.2%) are from 3, where he shot a decent percentage even in a down year for him in that regard (last year was uncharacteristically low for him but not too drastically to where it's at all alarming).

Stauskas is straight trash. Thankfully we got the right to swap picks for him but I've never seen a less confident player in my life. I have little hope that he'll even be in the league in a couple seasons. Hope he can prove me wrong and at least be a standstill 3 point shooter/10th man down the road.

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 04:19 PM
wow we view very differently. He had confidence early, lost it but regained it by the end of the season.

warfelg
06-06-2016, 04:23 PM
Staus could be straight up cut and 99.9% of Sixers fans wouldn't miss a wink of sleep

TheDish87
06-06-2016, 04:23 PM
i mean you can say that about plenty of players. Doesnt change that he will be able to stick around the league and possibly be useful

for the record i dont think Sauce is good right now, just seen enough to think he can have a servicable career.