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View Full Version : If We Swapped Klay and Harden - Which Team Gets Better? Worse?



lol, please
06-01-2016, 05:07 PM
This was a discussion in another thread, but I think it warrants its own thread and poll.

Flashbolt made the point that a Curry and Harden backcourt would make the Warriors a superior squad, and that the offensive firepower of Curry and Harden would make up for Harden's defensive deficiencies.

Do people agree?

Also, do people also believe that a Klay led Rockets squad would be worse off?

As the top two SG I think it's an interesting discussion.

lol, please
06-01-2016, 05:08 PM
Ugh, sorry guys, I forgot a poll option for "both teams stay the same". :facepalm:

Htownballa1622
06-01-2016, 05:15 PM
Both players are better for their own teams they are currently on.


I still think Harden is better on more teams league wide than Klay would be simply because Harden can create for others.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-01-2016, 05:15 PM
Not enough Warrior related threads.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 05:16 PM
Klay is a scorer. Harden can score, rebound, facilitate. I wouldn't say Klay is an elite defender. He's good but not great. Fit wise, Klay is probably a better fit for an 82 game season because the Warriors don't need him to do heavy loading in the playoffs. Playoffs wise, I think Harden and Curry creates a matchup nightmare. You can't touch Harden and Curry is also untouchable. Klay is stoppable. IDC what anyone says but comparing the offensive talent of Harden to Klay is not even close. Defensively, yeah, Klay is better but Warriors haven't even been a great defensive team lately and their scoring overload would just wear teams out. You're really sacrificing defense for more offense. And Klay's defense doesn't match up to Harden's offense.

To remotely suggest Klay would be able to carry that Rockets team just shows how much you guys value system players. Klay hasn't developed to a player like Kawhi has developed into. Granted, he doesn't have that same opportunity but the times Klay has had to playmake, he's never looked comfortable doing so. Shaun Livingston and a few others are ahead of him when it comes to having to playmake.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2016, 05:17 PM
It's difficult to answer. Harden has such an offensive demand for his team, that he basically doesn't even focus on defense anymore. Is Klay still an elite defender if he is basically asked to do everything for an offense?

In a bottle, I say both teams get worse. Harden is a ball dominator, which doesn't work as well in GS's roster makeup/offense, and I don't think Klay has the ability to score so much in isolation off PNR, and off the dribble.

The trade wouldn't make sense for either team. Plus, then I have to hate the Warriors, and I don't wanna do that

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 05:20 PM
I think both teams end up getting worse. If a team needs an offensive creator to carry that side of the ball and make plays for others Harden is the better option. If you need a secondary player (or even just a primary scorer without the playmaking) with defense and off ball skills then Klay is the guy you want.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 05:25 PM
This is a stupid poll. The fact some people (cough Warriors fans) really think Klay makes the Rockets better is a headscratcher. The real discussion is whether or not Harden would make them better. In the playoffs, I think he will.

lol, please
06-01-2016, 05:27 PM
This is a stupid poll. The fact some people (cough Warriors fans) really think Klay makes the Rockets better is a headscratcher. The real discussion is whether or not Harden would make them better. In the playoffs, I think he will.

Relax dude, I usually just randomly select an option in my polls so I can see the results when I enter the thread.
:p

Sorry that it throws the numbers off a bit.

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 05:33 PM
This is a stupid poll. The fact some people (cough Warriors fans) really think Klay makes the Rockets better is a headscratcher. The real discussion is whether or not Harden would make them better. In the playoffs, I think he will.

I disagree with this part. I have no problem if someone wants to make a claim for Harden/Klay/Butler at this point for SG but Klay fits amazingly with the current Warriors system. He provides elite spacing and can create his opportunities without having the ball in his hands. That skill of Harden gets minimized playing next to Curry especially considering they have Green as point forward when the doubles/traps hit. He also takes on the tougher defensive match up to allow Curry to play weaker defenders and play passing lanes/rest for offense which Harden wouldn't excel at to the same level. So in the role a secondary player would have next to Curry I think Klay is the better fit.

Saddletramp
06-01-2016, 05:35 PM
Relax dude, I usually just randomly select an option in my polls so I can see the results when I enter the thread.
:p

Sorry that it throws the numbers off a bit.

Jesus. Who do you think believes you?

As for the questions, they're stupid. Stop trolling. We've had this discussion before.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 05:40 PM
I disagree with this part. I have no problem if someone wants to make a claim for Harden/Klay/Butler at this point for SG but Klay fits amazingly with the current Warriors system. He provides elite spacing and can create his opportunities without having the ball in his hands. That skill of Harden gets minimized playing next to Curry especially considering they have Green as point forward when the doubles/traps hit. He also takes on the tougher defensive match up to allow Curry to play weaker defenders and play passing lanes/rest for offense which Harden wouldn't excel at to the same level. So in the role a secondary player would have next to Curry I think Klay is the better fit.

For fit, I agree with you. In the playoffs, it isn't always about fit. Spurs had a better fit of players than we did in the playoffs. We just had the superstars who stepped up. Like I said, for a stretch of 82 games, I think Klay provides a better fit. But for the playoffs, I think the threat of Harden is just way too much to ignore. He can attack the paint at ease and free up other players. Harden draws more attention than Klay has ever drawn in his career. So there's definitely arguments for both sides. Personally, if I'm coaching against the Warriors, I would be clueless as to how you try and stop both Harden and Curry.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2016, 05:53 PM
For fit, I agree with you. In the playoffs, it isn't always about fit. Spurs had a better fit of players than we did in the playoffs. We just had the superstars who stepped up. Like I said, for a stretch of 82 games, I think Klay provides a better fit. But for the playoffs, I think the threat of Harden is just way too much to ignore. He can attack the paint at ease and free up other players. Harden draws more attention than Klay has ever drawn in his career. So there's definitely arguments for both sides. Personally, if I'm coaching against the Warriors, I would be clueless as to how you try and stop both Harden and Curry.

Wall up Curry, force Harden to expend a ton of energy on offense, then go at him defensively.

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 05:59 PM
For fit, I agree with you. In the playoffs, it isn't always about fit. Spurs had a better fit of players than we did in the playoffs. We just had the superstars who stepped up. Like I said, for a stretch of 82 games, I think Klay provides a better fit. But for the playoffs, I think the threat of Harden is just way too much to ignore. He can attack the paint at ease and free up other players. Harden draws more attention than Klay has ever drawn in his career. So there's definitely arguments for both sides. Personally, if I'm coaching against the Warriors, I would be clueless as to how you try and stop both Harden and Curry.

I feel like the biggest reason the Spurs lost was that outside of Aldridge/Khawi the team underwhelmed. Going in I ranked Spurs higher but said that the talent level was arguable due to Durant/Westy, I just expected coaching/role players for Spurs to be the difference and they weren't. Coaching/depth was supposed to be their advantage and it didn't seem to be like a real one imo (considering OKC front courts level of play). So in that case yes having more top talent helped but that isn't the same situation as the Warriors are in since they already have an MVP/creator and another top level talent as well in Green.

They already have top level talent and depth with Curry/Green/Iggy/Barnes/Bogut and the best thing to add is a SG who is talented but also adds other dimensions to the team outside of playmaking with the ball (like elite 3pt shooting, defense, off ball productivity). If there was a major gap in talent level between Klay/Harden I would maybe agree but I think it is reasonably close with Klay being a near perfect fit.

D-Leethal
06-01-2016, 06:19 PM
Both teams get worse. Dubs need a backcourt stopper next to Steph which Klay can be whilst putting up record breaking 40 pt games playing off ball movement. Rockets need an offensive triple threat who dribble, pass, score as a #1 option with the ball in his hands.

D-Leethal
06-01-2016, 06:23 PM
Klay is the best #2 in the NBA playing off the ball and brings elite backcourt defense, often on top tier PGs. Harden couldn't duplicate that role. That said, Harden is a top tier #1 option and brings elite scoring, FTA, and penetration-collapse of the D which Klay couldn't duplicate. Neither team makes that trade.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 06:24 PM
I feel like the biggest reason the Spurs lost was that outside of Aldridge/Khawi the team underwhelmed. Going in I ranked Spurs higher but said that the talent level was arguable due to Durant/Westy, I just expected coaching/role players for Spurs to be the difference and they weren't. Coaching/depth was supposed to be their advantage and it didn't seem to be like a real one imo (considering OKC front courts level of play). So in that case yes having more top talent helped but that isn't the same situation as the Warriors are in since they already have an MVP/creator and another top level talent as well in Green.

They already have top level talent and depth with Curry/Green/Iggy/Barnes/Bogut and the best thing to add is a SG who is talented but also adds other dimensions to the team outside of playmaking with the ball (like elite 3pt shooting, defense, off ball productivity). If there was a major gap in talent level between Klay/Harden I would maybe agree but I think it is reasonably close with Klay being a near perfect fit.

fair point.

BTW, where is the narrative that Klay is an elite defender coming from? I think Iggy is better than him defensively. I'd say he's probably their 4th best defender. He's a good defender but great is just not true.

D-Leethal
06-01-2016, 06:26 PM
fair point.

BTW, where is the narrative that Klay is an elite defender coming from? I think Iggy is better than him defensively. I'd say he's probably their 4th best defender. He's a good defender but great is just not true.

Klay is a top tier backcourt defender. Iggy is better at his position - one of the best of this generation, Green is more versatile but Klay is rock solid in his switches and rotations, doesn't get burned in isos 1v1, stays in position and makes things as tough as you possibly can guarding NBA backcourt players with 2016-era rules.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 06:49 PM
Klay is a top tier backcourt defender. Iggy is better at his position - one of the best of this generation, Green is more versatile but Klay is rock solid in his switches and rotations, doesn't get burned in isos 1v1, stays in position and makes things as tough as you possibly can guarding NBA backcourt players with 2016-era rules.

I don't think he's top tier at all. Top tier is reserved for kawhi, Butler, CP3, Green, Gasol, Allen, Bradley, etc. I wouldn't put Thompson in that tier. He's good, not great or elite.

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 06:50 PM
fair point.

BTW, where is the narrative that Klay is an elite defender coming from? I think Iggy is better than him defensively. I'd say he's probably their 4th best defender. He's a good defender but great is just not true.


Klay is a top tier backcourt defender. Iggy is better at his position - one of the best of this generation, Green is more versatile but Klay is rock solid in his switches and rotations, doesn't get burned in isos 1v1, stays in position and makes things as tough as you possibly can guarding NBA backcourt players with 2016-era rules.

He had a very good answer.

I wouldn't call Klay elite and do think Iggy is better so we agree on that. Klay is a good all around defender and versatility like that is important today. He may not be Elite but he is good in most areas and can take on different types of responsibilities while still performing like he does on offense. It really helps that he has the ability to do that because it allows them to consistently give Curry easier guards (if they choose which many times I think they do).

nastynice
06-01-2016, 08:23 PM
Both teams worse. We've never seen Klay as a #1 so at least there some speculation and discussion, but how in gods name anyone could think harden would make the Warriors better is beyond me. Iso ball is the worst thing that could happen to the dubs offense. And defense...do I even have to say anything?

CHANGO
06-01-2016, 08:34 PM
Who would defend the best perimeter players of the other team on the Warriors? They would get killed with a Harden-Curry backcourt.

Who would make plays for the Houston Rockets? They wouldn't have a good offense at all.

Both players make their teams WAY BETTER than what they can do on another team. Beverley can't control an offense, Curry can't be a good defender with Harden at his side.

So the answer is, both teams would be worse BUT, the Warriors would be obviously better with the amount of talent they would have.

CHANGO
06-01-2016, 08:35 PM
He had a very good answer.

I wouldn't call Klay elite and do think Iggy is better so we agree on that. Klay is a good all around defender and versatility like that is important today. He may not be Elite but he is good in most areas and can take on different types of responsibilities while still performing like he does on offense. It really helps that he has the ability to do that because it allows them to consistently give Curry easier guards (if they choose which many times I think they do).

IMO I think Jimmy B is a better defender than Klay. Klay is solid, but I don't think he's elite. I do think that Jimmy B is elite.

Ariza's Better
06-01-2016, 08:39 PM
Both teams would be worse off. The much comparable swap honestly would be Harden and Curry. Not saying Harden is on the same level as Curry, just saying it would be a more interesting swap.

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 08:52 PM
IMO I think Jimmy B is a better defender than Klay. Klay is solid, but I don't think he's elite. I do think that Jimmy B is elite.

Agreed on that one too, like I said Klay isn't elite defensively. I think Klay's offense as a secondary player is more dynamic than Butlers would be for GS, enough to make up the difference most likely (consider they have Iggy for defense replacement value too).

CHANGO
06-01-2016, 09:15 PM
Agreed on that one too, like I said Klay isn't elite defensively. I think Klay's offense as a secondary player is more dynamic than Butlers would be for GS, enough to make up the difference most likely (consider they have Iggy for defense replacement value too).

Definitely, Klay is the perfect fit for that squad, putting Jimmy or Harden there would make the W's worse.

D-Leethal
06-01-2016, 09:27 PM
I don't think he's top tier at all. Top tier is reserved for kawhi, Butler, CP3, Green, Gasol, Allen, Bradley, etc. I wouldn't put Thompson in that tier. He's good, not great or elite.

I said backcourt defender specifically. He can guard both 1s and 2s and does it as good as anyone sans a few lockdown guys. He is not a flashy defender at all and doesn't get right in your grill and try to suffocate you, but his positioning and ability to read situations is extremely good for his position. He doesn't bring a flashy style on that end but rarely do you see him make any mistakes on that end.

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 09:45 PM
I said backcourt defender specifically. He can guard both 1s and 2s and does it as good as anyone sans a few lockdown guys. He is not a flashy defender at all and doesn't get right in your grill and try to suffocate you, but his positioning and ability to read situations is extremely good for his position. He doesn't bring a flashy style on that end but rarely do you see him make any mistakes on that end.

Warriors have many perimeter defenders. Harrison Barnes is pretty good, Iguodala is better than Klay, Green can do it as well. Klay's defense might be a part of the system as well. Better defensive teams tend to inflate defensive impact. You knowing your teammate can defend their man gives you more luxury and confidence to defend your own man. Like I said, he's not an elite defender but a good one. I've yet to see him lockdown anyone, tbh. Harden I guess? IDK.

SeoulBeatz
06-01-2016, 09:58 PM
It's difficult to answer. Harden has such an offensive demand for his team, that he basically doesn't even focus on defense anymore. Is Klay still an elite defender if he is basically asked to do everything for an offense?

In a bottle, I say both teams get worse. Harden is a ball dominator, which doesn't work as well in GS's roster makeup/offense, and I don't think Klay has the ability to score so much in isolation off PNR, and off the dribble.

The trade wouldn't make sense for either team. Plus, then I have to hate the Warriors, and I don't wanna do that

This.

I'd be interested to see how Klay would fare as the primary focus of opposing defenses every night.

mightybosstone
06-01-2016, 11:28 PM
Jesus Christ man... Will you ever leave this argument alone? This must be like the fifth pro-Klay, anti-Harden thread you've brought up over the last couple of years. This **** has gotten old.

naps
06-02-2016, 12:32 AM
Both teams would be worse, specially the Warriors. Harden would singlehandedly destroy Warriors at both ends and Curry wont be Curry anymore playing next to Harden.

TheMightyHumph
06-02-2016, 01:01 AM
Wall up Curry, force Harden to expend a ton of energy on offense, then go at him defensively.

Wall up Curry? Seriously?

FlashBolt
06-02-2016, 01:04 AM
Wall up Curry? Seriously?

Walling up Curry is like putting up a ten foot fence against a bird. You can't wall him up.. it's actually recommended you don't.

TheMightyHumph
06-02-2016, 01:13 AM
Does no one see that Harden is a cancer?

Houston would be better with Klay.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 08:01 AM
Both teams get worse. Dubs need a backcourt stopper next to Steph which Klay can be whilst putting up record breaking 40 pt games playing off ball movement. Rockets need an offensive triple threat who dribble, pass, score as a #1 option with the ball in his hands.


Klay is the best #2 in the NBA playing off the ball and brings elite backcourt defense, often on top tier PGs. Harden couldn't duplicate that role. That said, Harden is a top tier #1 option and brings elite scoring, FTA, and penetration-collapse of the D which Klay couldn't duplicate. Neither team makes that trade.

Ding Ding Ding. The Rockets need Harden's play-making. As good as Klay Thompson is at shooting and defense he's not a play-maker. That's why 90% of his shots are assisted. Rockets clearly get worse. The debatable part about all of this would be if Harden's offense would make the Warriors even better. We saw Harden posting historic efficiency numbers as a 3rd option in OKC before going to Houston so theoretically the potential is there. I'm going to still say the Warriors get worse. Their level of play is so high that any shake-up of the balance would have to change the chemistry on the floor. Plus to get Harden his touches it takes the ball out of Steph's hands and that can't make them better. Plus defensively it's a huge hit. To me if you really think about it the answer is clear.

DboneG
06-02-2016, 08:18 AM
Curry and Harden backcourt wouldn't work. Harden is a ball dominator, he don't share the ball well, he create a lot of TO's, and his defense is horrible. We already know to exploit Curry you make him play defense. Put him in the mix as much as possible. Now when you add zero defense playing Harden...total failure. This guy has way too many mental lapses.
It would ruin GSW defensive scheme...you can hid one guy (Curry)with your defense plan, but, two. No! So, they get worse.

When do Draymond Green get to touch the ball? I see Green and Harden clashes on the court and in the locker room.



Klay with the Rockets would be interesting. Because Klay would become the leader of the team. It would be interesting to see how he handle that situation. Klay is a shooter that can score on occasions. I don't consider him a scorer like Wade/Durant/James/RWB. Klay would also have to be more of a facilitator. Klay isn't a gun/ball-hog, his team-mates will be more involved, which make the players around him better. He's a much better defender than Harden. Klay will turn the ball over less...Rockets will be better.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2016, 09:24 AM
Klay is the best #2 in the NBA playing off the ball and brings elite backcourt defense, often on top tier PGs. Harden couldn't duplicate that role. That said, Harden is a top tier #1 option and brings elite scoring, FTA, and penetration-collapse of the D which Klay couldn't duplicate. Neither team makes that trade.

literally what I was trying to say, yes. This is exactly right

Hawkeye15
06-02-2016, 09:27 AM
Wall up Curry? Seriously?

haha, I am only making suggestions, not stating fact. And Harden is nowhere near the shooter Klay is, so you can be more risky loading up on Curry if you make the change. You get recovery time with Harden, who is a catch and survey guy

TheNumber37
06-02-2016, 10:22 AM
Harden's defense would cripple the Warriors.

You think Harden could guard Westbrook or KD for ANY period of the game?

Curry is a better defender than Harden, that's all you need to know.

Thompson is a great shooter, but the rockets don't have the playmakers to make him as great as the Warriors do. He'd have to create a whole lot more of his offense.

Harden on Warriors. 25, 5, 5. Warriors 59-23
Thompson on Rockets: 27. 5, 3. Rockets 35-46

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-02-2016, 10:59 AM
Does no one see that Harden is a cancer?

Houston would be better with Klay.

I agree

Klay would be fine on Houston and I think he would easily score 25 ppg. He has a Reggie Miller type skillset and you can definitely build around him. For all those who say he is "stoppable"... not when he's hot. He wasn't stoppable in game 6. No defense can stop that. He's a great shooter and scorer in general and he plays very good defense. He also doesn't turn the ball over a ton like Harden does. He might not be the playmaker Harden is, but he is deadly like Reggie Miller/Ray Allen off the ball. The bottom line is, Harden can ball, but the way he plays conflicts with sharing the ball and playing winning basketball. You will never see a team win a championship with its lead player playing like that.

I'll take Klay on any team in just about any scenario and then build around him from there. I'm glad he has dominated in the playoffs so far and stepped up when Curry was hurt/cold because the world is seeing the what I've felt all along... that Klay Thompson is the most underrated part of the Warriors team and is just very underrated in general. I know people view him as an All-Star, but I'm saying he is more than that. He's a top 10 player in the league and the best shooting guard IMO. I've felt that way all season. Is he a system player? Well he is a perfect fit for Golden State's system, but no I don't think he is strictly a system player.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-02-2016, 11:01 AM
And obviously Harden wouldn't be a better fit for the Warriors. He'd be best used as their sixth man on a team like that. That tells you all you need to know about who the better player is IMO.

ghettosean
06-02-2016, 11:20 AM
I think Rockets get better if you actually allow your coach to coach and make your players happy which Klay would do I think the Rockets get better as make the playoffs easily vs barely making it. I agree that Klay can't distribute and ball handle like Harden but he's willing to work with players and is not a glory hog like he shows on GS. Now if Harden is on the Warriors he won't play defense, won't listen to Kerr (if he doesn't please him) and will want to be the center piece of the team as well as the major ball handler on the court and for the offense to run through him all of these don't mix with the warriors and there unselfish play... I think he makes the Warriors much worse.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 11:45 AM
You don't win titles with guys like Melo, Harden, or Westbrook...they are to arrogant and to unwilling to do what it takes to make the team better....heck even Melo almost cost team USA a medal, the team didn't take over a game against Spain until they pulled Melo out.

Klay is a winner and willing to put team over self

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 11:52 AM
You don't win titles with guys like Melo, Harden, or Westbrook...they are to arrogant and to unwilling to do what it takes to make the team better....heck even Melo almost cost team USA a medal, the team didn't take over a game against Spain until they pulled Melo out.

Klay is a winner and willing to put team over self

In fairness to Melo he's never had the teammates to get anywhere. The one time he had a legit teammate in Chauncey Billups they went to the WCF in a loaded West. The year JR Smith played good in NY he led the Knicks to the #2 seed. He's horrible leading bad teams to respectability which is why no one is saying he's Kobe/Wade/Bron. But he's actually done a respectable job maximizing teams with talent.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 12:21 PM
In fairness to Melo he's never had the teammates to get anywhere. The one time he had a legit teammate in Chauncey Billups they went to the WCF in a loaded West. The year JR Smith played good in NY he led the Knicks to the #2 seed. He's horrible leading bad teams to respectability which is why no one is saying he's Kobe/Wade/Bron. But he's actually done a respectable job maximizing teams with talent.

Team USA against Spain he let several balls roll right past his legs....Spain went on a huge run, Melo got pulled, USA took over the game and won. With all world talent, he almost cost them.

I get what you are saying, but he had to be pulled from Team USA to not cost them a game.

You see it in every sports, TO and Randy Moss in the NFL are other examples...they can have hall of fame careers and people highly sought after players, but at the end of the day they don't do the things that require effort that won't give them praise or that is best for the team. I have said this about Westbrook on this site before, so I'm not suprised that OKC got close and couldn't close the series. Harden is just an offensive guy that is lazy in all other aspects.

Melo, as to your point, is someone that I could see changing, but when he was with a stacked team in a huge game, he had to be pulled so he wasn't responsible for the team losing.

D-Leethal
06-02-2016, 12:49 PM
Team USA against Spain he let several balls roll right past his legs....Spain went on a huge run, Melo got pulled, USA took over the game and won. With all world talent, he almost cost them.

I get what you are saying, but he had to be pulled from Team USA to not cost them a game.

You see it in every sports, TO and Randy Moss in the NFL are other examples...they can have hall of fame careers and people highly sought after players, but at the end of the day they don't do the things that require effort that won't give them praise or that is best for the team. I have said this about Westbrook on this site before, so I'm not suprised that OKC got close and couldn't close the series. Harden is just an offensive guy that is lazy in all other aspects.

Melo, as to your point, is someone that I could see changing, but when he was with a stacked team in a huge game, he had to be pulled so he wasn't responsible for the team losing.

Your evidence to prove your point is one play from one game in summer hoops? Melo was damn near the MVP of that team for a lot of that same tourny.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 10:58 PM
Your evidence to prove your point is one play from one game in summer hoops? Melo was damn near the MVP of that team for a lot of that same tourny.

I was using that play, and notice the plural, so that means more than one, to make a point about his play in that game.

Also my point is not that he isn't a very good player, my point is, that guys like that in the biggest moments cost the team.

That is exactly what Melo did, I don't care about everything else he did, those plays against Spain, during the Olympics not Summer Hoops (not sure what you even mean by that), he was a huge detriment in the big moment because he was lazy.

KnicksorBust
06-03-2016, 07:40 AM
Team USA against Spain he let several balls roll right past his legs....Spain went on a huge run, Melo got pulled, USA took over the game and won. With all world talent, he almost cost them.

I get what you are saying, but he had to be pulled from Team USA to not cost them a game.

You see it in every sports, TO and Randy Moss in the NFL are other examples...they can have hall of fame careers and people highly sought after players, but at the end of the day they don't do the things that require effort that won't give them praise or that is best for the team. I have said this about Westbrook on this site before, so I'm not suprised that OKC got close and couldn't close the series. Harden is just an offensive guy that is lazy in all other aspects.

Melo, as to your point, is someone that I could see changing, but when he was with a stacked team in a huge game, he had to be pulled so he wasn't responsible for the team losing.

In 2006, Anthony was named co-captain (along with James and Wade) of Team USA at the 2006 FIBA World Championship. Anthony was named to the FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team, posting averages of 19.9 ppg (led team), 3.7 rpg and 1.6 apg.[26][153] On January 16, 2006, Anthony was chosen as the USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year after his performance at the FIBA World Championship.

Anthony was also a member of Team USA during the 2007 FIBA Americas Championship. The team went undefeated, going 100. Anthony ended up as the team's leading scorer and tournament's second-leading scorer with a 21.2 ppg average (191 points in 9 games)

Anthony, along with LeBron James, also participated in the 2012 Summer Olympics held in London. It was his third straight Olympiad (2004, 2008, 2012), as he joined James and David Robinson (1988, 1992, 1996) as the only American basketball players to play in three Olympiads. Anthony played in all 8 games, serving as Team USA's sixth man. He posted averages of 16.3 ppg (130 points), 4.8 rpg (38 rebounds), 1.3 apg (10 assists) and 0.5 spg (4 steals), built around 50% shooting from 3 PT range (2346), 53% FG shooting (4686) and 79% FT (1519). Team USA won the gold medal as they defended their 2008 title against Spain, winning 107100. Anthony's 16.3 ppg average was the second best for Team USA behind Kevin Durant's record-setting 156 points (19.5 ppg).

It seems like you want to hold 1 game against him but he was a part of back to back olympic gold medal winning teams and a leading scorer in a team full of superstars at the FIBA games and 2nd leading scorer for the team in 2012 behind Durant. It seems ilke nit-picking. Obviously on the most stacked team in the world if one of your players is playing poorly you can easily sub without downgrading talent. I think the overall picture of Carmelo Anthony's tenure on Team USA would paint him as an elite scoring option and a winner.

Keep in mind I am NOT putting him in the class of LeBron/Wade/Kobe/etc. I think at this point in his career it is obvious that he has major flaws in his game and his inability to raise the level of subpar teammates. But when given opportunities to succeed, he does.

lol, please
06-03-2016, 03:44 PM
You don't win titles with guys like Melo, Harden, or Westbrook...they are to arrogant and to unwilling to do what it takes to make the team better....heck even Melo almost cost team USA a medal, the team didn't take over a game against Spain until they pulled Melo out.

Klay is a winner and willing to put team over self

I think it's early to say Harden, Westbrook, and Melo won't win a title.

SirSkyHook
06-03-2016, 04:40 PM
The Warriors get worse because they lose another floor spacer. Harden isn't a knock down shooter but he can penetrate and make palys and finish, but they already have a number of players that can do that also. Klay is a killers with his shot. That fact you cant sag off him, and you need so much help on him out at the three point territory makes him so valuable, because it opens up so many layups and mid range shots for his teammates. Comfortable easy shots for role players is HUGE when trying build a contender. They lose that with Harden along with tons of defense.

The Rockets become better defensively off the back because their leader would be wiling to sacrifice his body on that end EVERY NIGHT. As far as offense goes I believe they become the 2000 Pacers with Reggie Millers or possible better