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TDE
06-01-2016, 03:19 PM
Rank the most complete players out of these four.

Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or Lebron James.

Redrum187
06-01-2016, 03:22 PM
1.) Michael Jordan
2.) LeBron James
3.) Magic Johnson
4.) Kobe Bryant

You could swap Kobe and Magic if we are strictly talking about "complete players". Kobe was a much better defender in his prime where as Magic was pretty average.

Rivera
06-01-2016, 03:25 PM
I gave Kobe serious thought at 2. Much better shooter than magic and LBJ. He could defend at a high level and rebound when needed

Kobe could also pass. Kobe was a very gifted passer. A lot of times he chose not to though because it's in his DNA

I think I just convinced myself again with Kobe being #2

DanG
06-01-2016, 03:29 PM
MJ
Bron
Kobe
Magic

TDE
06-01-2016, 03:56 PM
MJ
Bron
Kobe
Magic


Why are you putting Jordan above LeBron? He's a better passer and rebounder??

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 05:36 PM
LeBron
MJ
Kobe
Magic

@Rivera, Kobe is a better midrange shooter but he isn't a better three point shooter. If he is, it isn't by much. But why can't we talk about their fastbreak ability, ability to attack the paint, etc.? It's like saying Korver is a better shooter than Kobe. Well, Kobe is better at other facets than Korver could ever dream about.

Rivera
06-01-2016, 05:39 PM
LeBron
MJ
Kobe
Magic

@Rivera, Kobe is a better midrange shooter but he isn't a better three point shooter. If he is, it isn't by much. But why can't we talk about their fastbreak ability, ability to attack the paint, etc.? It's like saying Korver is a better shooter than Kobe. Well, Kobe is better at other facets than Korver could ever dream about.

Better midrange shooter than who?

Out of everyone on that list. I want Kobe taking a 3. MJ didn't really develop one until late and we see how streaky LBJ can be

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 05:44 PM
Better midrange shooter than who?

Out of everyone on that list. I want Kobe taking a 3. MJ didn't really develop one until late and we see how streaky LBJ can be

Than LeBron. I guess you have Kobe at #2 by your post. Regardless of who you'd rather take the 3, numbers are numbers. Kobe isn't a better three point shooter than LeBron. Better mid range, sure.

CHANGO
06-01-2016, 08:43 PM
1) Lebron
2) Jordan
3) Magic
4) Kobe

CHANGO
06-01-2016, 08:45 PM
To me a complete player can rebound, defend, pass, shoot, and more importantly, can run an offense. The only guy with the skillset to do that is Lebron James. Let's not forget that this guy could/can defend from 1 to 4 and maybe 5. So yeah... This is not debatable.

numba1CHANGsta
06-01-2016, 09:09 PM
MJ
Kobe
Magic
LeBron

I would have LeBron ranked higher but a complete player doesn't have "choking in the Finals" in their DNA

jerellh528
06-01-2016, 09:12 PM
Kobe
MJ
James
Magic

mngopher35
06-01-2016, 09:17 PM
To me Kobe is the worst rebounder/passer of the group and Magic is the worst Scorer/defender. So I would have those two at the bottom and Lebron/MJ at the top. Gets a little bit tougher to seperate from there but I will say

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe
Magic

BKLYNpigeon
06-01-2016, 09:37 PM
Who cares!

FlashBolt
06-01-2016, 09:39 PM
MJ
Kobe
Magic
LeBron

I would have LeBron ranked higher but a complete player doesn't have "choking in the Finals" in their DNA

Kobe Bryant first NBA Finals: 16/5/4 37% shooting.

LeBron James 2011 NBA Finals: 17/8/8 48% shooting.

IKnowHoops
06-01-2016, 09:45 PM
Lebron
.
.
MJ
.
Magic
.
.
Kobe


Lebron is easily the most complete player ever.

MTL_123
06-01-2016, 10:28 PM
MJ
Kobe
Magic
LeBron

I would have LeBron ranked higher but a complete player doesn't have "choking in the Finals" in their DNA

wait didnt Kobe's lakers lose a series after being up 3-1

and didnt they choke in the 2004 finals against the pistons even though Lakers were favored to win. (Yes I know players were banged up yet they were still favored tho)

so.............:cricket:

naps
06-01-2016, 11:51 PM
LeBron is the most complete player of all time, hands down.

MJ
Magic


Kobe

More-Than-Most
06-02-2016, 12:08 AM
Lebron/MJ






Kobe/Magic


I personally think Lebron is above MJ as a more complete player... He was a much better defender in an era where you werent allowed to defend.... The thing that has MJ as Goat status is he become a better shooter than James and his drive/ego is greater than James.






Of this list Lebron never had the talent around him that MJ did or never had the talent kobe had most of his career.... When James did get the talent around him he won 2 out of 3 championships.


Of these 4 Kobe is the best shooter in my opinion but his lack of rebounding/passing keeps him behind.... Kobe early on was a much better defender than most gave him credit for.

More-Than-Most
06-02-2016, 12:10 AM
Kobe Bryant first NBA Finals: 16/5/4 37% shooting.

LeBron James 2011 NBA Finals: 17/8/8 48% shooting.

He will ignore this.

Saddletramp
06-02-2016, 12:18 AM
He will ignore this.

He's one of those awful posters that says dumb ****, gets called out then hides. Not worth anyone's time and should be banned.


MJ/Lebron


Kobe/Magic

jerellh528
06-02-2016, 01:18 AM
He will ignore this.

What is that like a green kid vs a prime star tho

FlashBolt
06-02-2016, 01:29 AM
What is that like a green kid vs a prime star tho

The argument in that is players can have a bad series. They both recovered. It's unfair to always drag that one terrible series and then say "he isn't the most complete player because of that series." Well, Kobe had a terrible series too... and they won because Shaq was averaging 38/16 (pretty sure LeBron wins with that guy). And for all the talk that LeBron choked against the Mavericks; meh, I wouldn't say he choked. I would say he just wasn't assertive. The rebounds were there, the assists were there, but he just looked like he was deferring too much to the others. Bosh/Wade both had a higher USG% rate than LeBron. Hell, Chris Bosh took more shots than LeBron. LeBron converted on 48% of his shots. So again, it's not like he choked. He simply just didn't do what he should have done offensively.

TDE
06-02-2016, 02:14 AM
He will ignore this.
Wasn't Kobe just 21 and injured early in those Finals by Rose

mngopher35
06-02-2016, 02:22 AM
What is that like a green kid vs a prime star tho

Ya 2004 is a way better comparison.

Kobe was young and got injured in the 2000 series, not a choke job or anything like that.

FlashBolt
06-02-2016, 03:12 AM
Kobe in 2004:

22/3/4 38% shooting. YIKES.

Sofnr
06-02-2016, 07:23 AM
Jordan

Lebron



Magic
Kobe

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 07:52 AM
MJ can't guard centers. LeBron's height/weight/strength could. Peak LeBron can score in every way possible and defend every position. He's the winner here...

But only a completely different note, is it better to be more complete or better to be... well... better? Iguodala is more "complete" than Magic but who cares if Magic is infinitely more valuable offensively?

IKnowHoops
06-02-2016, 08:09 AM
MJ can't guard centers. LeBron's height/weight/strength could. Peak LeBron can score in every way possible and defend every position. He's the winner here...

But only a completely different note, is it better to be more complete or better to be... well... better? Iguodala is more "complete" than Magic but who cares if Magic is infinitely more valuable offensively?

Yes great point, Draymond Green may be the 2nd or 3rd most complete player in the league. There are at least 15 guys who are better though.

Don't think Iggy is more complete than magic though

DboneG
06-02-2016, 09:10 AM
LeBron James.



MJ.....was a gun.
Magic
Scottie Pippen
Kobe
Big O

Hawkeye15
06-02-2016, 09:23 AM
To me Kobe is the worst rebounder/passer of the group and Magic is the worst Scorer/defender. So I would have those two at the bottom and Lebron/MJ at the top. Gets a little bit tougher to seperate from there but I will say

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe
Magic

agreed

Tony_Starks
06-02-2016, 09:39 AM
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Lebron

Hawkeye15
06-02-2016, 09:47 AM
Magic
MJ
Kobe
Lebron

Magic couldn't shoot or defend. How is he the most complete player?

It's between Mike and LeBron, then between Kobe and Magic, however people want to sort it.

ghettosean
06-02-2016, 09:58 AM
MJ
Bron
Kobe
Magic


Why are you putting Jordan above LeBron? He's a better passer and rebounder??

Jordan can shoot and is a better ball handler same with Magic IMO.

Tony_Starks
06-02-2016, 10:38 AM
Magic couldn't shoot or defend. How is he the most complete player?

It's between Mike and LeBron, then between Kobe and Magic, however people want to sort it.

Not true.

He wasn't a great 3 point shooter but he was over 50% from 2 and 85% from the line. He also knew how to take over scoring when needed.

As far as defense he could defend 1-5, literally not just rhetoric....including centers, and was one of the best rebounding guards ever. He was also a great team defender and led the league in steals twice.

So I got a guy that can actually play 1-5, actually defend 1-5, best rebounder of the bunch and greatest passer ever.

He's also the best leader of the group.

In conclusion: 1980 Finals- plays all 5 positions...42points 15 boards 7 assist for the championship, with his best player out.

If that's not complete I'm not sure what is.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 11:28 AM
Not true.

He wasn't a great 3 point shooter but he was over 50% from 2 and 85% from the line. He also knew how to take over scoring when needed.

As far as defense he could defend 1-5, literally not just rhetoric....including centers, and was one of the best rebounding guards ever. He was also a great team defender and led the league in steals twice.

So I got a guy that can actually play 1-5, actually defend 1-5, best rebounder of the bunch and greatest passer ever.

He's also the best leader of the group.

In conclusion: 1980 Finals- plays all 5 positions...42points 15 boards 7 assist for the championship, with his best player out.

If that's not complete I'm not sure what is.

Complete means everything. If he can't shoot 3's he is missing a skill. His 1 on 1 defense was the worst of the group meaning he is below average in another skill. Ergo he can't possibly be the most "complete." The real question to me will always be why are people so obsessed with checklists of skills and not just who was the more valuable player on the floor.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 11:48 AM
Rank the most complete players out of these four.

Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or Lebron James.

Magic and Jordan are complete

Lebron is not as aggeressive as he needs to be


Kobe is not complete at all....he is a great scorer and not better than good at anything else

TDE
06-02-2016, 11:49 AM
I got...
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
Magic

Kobe and Jordan have no weakness. They're Assist and Rebounds are very similar about 5 and 6 per game. But that's still well above NBA average, even more impressive by position. Magic lacked an outside game as well as defensive abilities. As far as James while he's a great rebounder and passer, he still lacks and outside game as well as a post game, they are not fluid enough like Kobe or Jordan where they can win a game in the post or in the perimeter.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 11:54 AM
Magic and Jordan are complete

Lebron is not as aggeressive as he needs to be


Kobe is not complete at all....he is a great scorer and not better than good at anything else

So Magic is a better 3pt shooter and defender than Kobe? You really wanna put that out there? Someone help me, he trolling?

Tony_Starks
06-02-2016, 12:00 PM
Complete means everything. If he can't shoot 3's he is missing a skill. His 1 on 1 defense was the worst of the group meaning he is below average in another skill. Ergo he can't possibly be the most "complete." The real question to me will always be why are people so obsessed with checklists of skills and not just who was the more valuable player on the floor.

By that criteria Lebron can't shoot 3s either. Or free throws for that matter. He's getting worse at both as he ages and is worse in the playoffs than the regular season.

Also if we count leadership as a skill he's the worst of the 4.

Your second point I completely agree with, value over checklist any day.

Tony_Starks
06-02-2016, 12:04 PM
So Magic is a better 3pt shooter and defender than Kobe? You really wanna put that out there? Someone help me, he trolling?

He's trolling HARD.

History called and said Kobe has all NBA defensive 1st team nods for days and is tied with the most 3's ever made in a game ( 12.).

He's locked up the other teams best wing for years while giving them 40+ on the other end, including threes.

FlashBolt
06-02-2016, 12:09 PM
Any list having Kobe or Magic above LeBron is as biased as can be.. it doesn't even make sense.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 12:13 PM
So Magic is a better 3pt shooter and defender than Kobe? You really wanna put that out there? Someone help me, he trolling?

Overall I think Magic is a much more complete player....I never brought up either of the things you are directly saying I said....For the record I would take Magic on his worst defensive day over Kobe on his best.

Kobe is not anything close to a complete player.....I am not trolling in any way, since you brought up trolling maybe I just took your bait.

You saying directly I said things I did not bring up and you calling me a troll because you don't agree is more trolling than anything I said.

Again Kobe not a complete player, a fantastic offensive player and good at other things, and Magic is considerably more complete overall than Kobe

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2016, 12:16 PM
delete

jerellh528
06-02-2016, 01:05 PM
I got...
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
Magic

Kobe and Jordan have no weakness. They're Assist and Rebounds are very similar about 5 and 6 per game. But that's still well above NBA average, even more impressive by position. Magic lacked an outside game as well as defensive abilities. As far as James while he's a great rebounder and passer, he still lacks and outside game as well as a post game, they are not fluid enough like Kobe or Jordan where they can win a game in the post or in the perimeter.

This is why I put Kobe number 1. He literally can do anything on the basketball court and has zero weaknesses in his game. Even Jordan didn't have great range, Lebron has many flaws in his game that are overcome by size and athleticism, Magic had defense and scoring ability... Kobe can pass as good as any when he wants, he's had stretches of double digit assists when he tried, has as complete an offensive aresenal as any player ever. Most skilled player of all time, and fantastic defensively at his peak. Probably the only weakness in his game was his need to take bad shots, and I feel like his handles are a bit overrated. But if you broke down every skill needed to be a good basketball player, skill for skill, kobe owns all.

europagnpilgrim
06-02-2016, 01:07 PM
The Big Dipper

Big O even said he had more triple doubles then he did(total) its just they didn't keep track of blocks and he racked up assists at highest level especially for a Center/big guy, way back then he had a 15 ft bank shot while everybody and they mama thought Timmy D invented that shot, he had the agility/dexterity when younger he could guard all spots and he could play a team all by himself

the others are real good choices also but I just had to throw my 2 cents out there for clarity

had they kept track of blocks can you imagine the 20/20/20blocks/10assists game he would have had? unreal

valade16
06-02-2016, 01:13 PM
Complete means everything. If he can't shoot 3's he is missing a skill. His 1 on 1 defense was the worst of the group meaning he is below average in another skill. Ergo he can't possibly be the most "complete." The real question to me will always be why are people so obsessed with checklists of skills and not just who was the more valuable player on the floor.

Agreed. Supposing Kobe were a more well rounded player than MJ, that means precisely jack when MJ was the clearly superior player.

Pfeifer
06-02-2016, 02:11 PM
This is a clear Lebron nut hugging thread yet again. How can one be a more complete player but not best ever. Such crap. Jordan is the GOAT, deal with it.

flea
06-02-2016, 02:43 PM
Why is everyone just choosing wings? I don't see what makes them inherently more versatile than bigs. It is not like you can win with a team full of wings any more than you can a team full of bigs or guards. At least not yet, maybe a team of 5 wings is Adam Silver's dream for the future of the NBA but that would require even more rules meddling.

Magic and Lebron don't belong in this discussion IMO. Most versatile they are probably #1 and #2 (or maybe Hakeem can jump one). They are both wings that can't shoot. Yeah Lebron can shoot and post a little but he is basically a slasher and distributor. Magic can post guards but he was also more of a distributor and slasher - he just had to post up a lot because of his size and the fact that perimeter defenders could actually play defense in the 80s. Just watch him bring the ball up in playoff games, he often had to use post moves just to not turn it over at halfcourt.

To me complete players are guys like Bird, Hondo, Barry, and Paul Pierce for forwards/wings. Guys like West, Kobe, Ginobili, Stockton, CP3, and maybe Kidd for guards. Guys like Dream, Duncan, Kareem, Robinson, and maybe Ewing and K. Malone for bigs. MJ yeah probably too even though he wasn't really a "complete player" except for maybe 1/3 of his career but Kidd counts he certainly does.

To me a complete player is someone who would fit on any team in virtually any role within reason (defender, scorer, distributor, off-ball threat, shooter). That's not really true for Magic, Lebron, Barkley and to an extent MJ. Those guys are just very versatile in that they can defend multiple positions and create mismatches for themselves versus multiple positions.

Pfeifer
06-02-2016, 03:49 PM
Why is everyone just choosing wings? I don't see what makes them inherently more versatile than bigs. It is not like you can win with a team full of wings any more than you can a team full of bigs or guards. At least not yet, maybe a team of 5 wings is Adam Silver's dream for the future of the NBA but that would require even more rules meddling.

Magic and Lebron don't belong in this discussion IMO. Most versatile they are probably #1 and #2 (or maybe Hakeem can jump one). They are both wings that can't shoot. Yeah Lebron can shoot and post a little but he is basically a slasher and distributor. Magic can post guards but he was also more of a distributor and slasher - he just had to post up a lot because of his size and the fact that perimeter defenders could actually play defense in the 80s. Just watch him bring the ball up in playoff games, he often had to use post moves just to not turn it over at halfcourt.

To me complete players are guys like Bird, Hondo, Barry, and Paul Pierce for forwards/wings. Guys like West, Kobe, Ginobili, Stockton, CP3, and maybe Kidd for guards. Guys like Dream, Duncan, Kareem, Robinson, and maybe Ewing and K. Malone for bigs. MJ yeah probably too even though he wasn't really a "complete player" except for maybe 1/3 of his career but Kidd counts he certainly does.

To me a complete player is someone who would fit on any team in virtually any role within reason (defender, scorer, distributor, off-ball threat, shooter). That's not really true for Magic, Lebron, Barkley and to an extent MJ. Those guys are just very versatile in that they can defend multiple positions and create mismatches for themselves versus multiple positions.

Great post. Who is your GOAT than?

Saddletramp
06-02-2016, 05:08 PM
Why is everyone just choosing wings?

Re-read the first post/question.

numba1CHANGsta
06-02-2016, 05:56 PM
wait didnt Kobe's lakers lose a series after being up 3-1

and didnt they choke in the 2004 finals against the pistons even though Lakers were favored to win. (Yes I know players were banged up yet they were still favored tho)

so.............:cricket:

It was the 1st round and the Lakers were a 7th seed, and that Finals in 04' wasn't a choke job, so much **** was going on that year, I'm surprised they even got that far. Kobe never had a cakewalk to the Finals like LeBron has multiple times and all he had to do is win one hard series out of 4 and couldn't get the job done. LeBron is a freak athlete, but I have no respect for a ring chaser like him. There was no need for him to be one, but I guess he wanted the easy way out. MJ, Magic, and Kobe all won their championships with ONE team.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 06:12 PM
Complete means everything. If he can't shoot 3's he is missing a skill. His 1 on 1 defense was the worst of the group meaning he is below average in another skill. Ergo he can't possibly be the most "complete." The real question to me will always be why are people so obsessed with checklists of skills and not just who was the more valuable player on the floor.

By that criteria Lebron can't shoot 3s either. Or free throws for that matter. He's getting worse at both as he ages and is worse in the playoffs than the regular season.

Also if we count leadership as a skill he's the worst of the 4.

Your second point I completely agree with, value over checklist any day.

But prime Bron had a a 3-4 year window where he was hitting 38% from 3pt. That is pretty damn good.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2016, 06:15 PM
So Magic is a better 3pt shooter and defender than Kobe? You really wanna put that out there? Someone help me, he trolling?

For the record I would take Magic on his worst defensive day over Kobe on his best.

Yikes.

flea
06-03-2016, 08:00 PM
Re-read the first post/question.

Oh, Colby then. I rarely read OPs unless I know the poster, MB.


Great post. Who is your GOAT than?

Most complete of all? Probably Bird I guess. Proved he could win all kinds of situations (as his team's best rebounder, playmaker, scorer, etc.) and had all the intangibles anyone could want (leadership, situational versatility, hustle, etc.). Underrated defender too, even if it's his one weakness as a player.

nastynice
06-04-2016, 05:42 AM
I say Lebron is the most versatile, so I guess that makes him the most complete.

But let me ask, it was brought up a couple times, what the hell centers has lebron guarded?? When did this all take place? I'm like missing something here...

And one person also said he can PLAY the 5? Has he really done that?

nastynice
06-04-2016, 05:45 AM
I also would say Kobe is the most versatile/complete scorer of the bunch. I think. I'm tryina rememeber, I don't remember mj having the same type of post game and footwork as Kobe. I know he would post up, but was he effective from there?

Magic was before my time, how was his shooting? I think he might be neck and neck with lebron for most complete offensive player, I don't know, when I see his highlights he seems to kinda do the same things lebron does offensively. I always hate the lebron mj comparisons, I always thought mj Kobe was perfect comparison and lebron Magic is perfect comparison.

ewing
06-04-2016, 09:54 PM
you guys trying to be cute by not picking Jordan?

valade16
06-04-2016, 10:57 PM
you guys trying to be cute by not picking Jordan?

:laugh2: Exactly.

MJ is the highest scoring player (by PPG) in NBA history and also won DPOY. Let's see the guy who is the best of all 4 at both offense and defense isn't the most complete player? This isn't the NFL, there is no Special Teams.

It's MJ