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Stunner
05-27-2016, 01:55 PM
Jahlil Okafor - C - 76ers
According to Chad Ford of ESPN, the 76ers are more likely to trade Jahlil Okafor than Nerlens Noel this summer.
The 76ers have a serious logjam in their frontcourt and it will likely get even more crowded this summer when they draft either Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram. "I think that there's a very high likelihood, that whether it's to move up in the draft or use them to grab a free agent in a sign and trade or just to a trade, that you will not see the Nerlens Noel-Jahlil Okafor pairing at the start of next season," Ford said. "I think that they'll gauge the interest of both players." A trade would likely benefit both Noel and Okafor, so this will be one of the most interesting storylines of the summer.
Source: CSN Philly May 27 - 9:18 AM

FOXHOUND
05-27-2016, 02:01 PM
I would trade Okafor too. He's more talented but that also means he's more valuable. It's also more difficult to build around him since he's a very flawed player and needs a more specific roster around him. Boston theoretically seems like a good fit because of their perimeter defenders and potential need for a low post scorer but buyer beware. The Bucks went into last offseason with a similar mindset and grabbed Monroe, only for it to destroy their elite D and be a dud on offense due to the lack of shooters.

Chronz
05-27-2016, 02:05 PM
I would trade Okafor too. He's more talented but that also means he's more valuable. It's also more difficult to build around him since he's a very flawed player and needs a more specific roster around him. Boston theoretically seems like a good fit because of their perimeter defenders and potential need for a low post scorer but buyer beware. The Bucks went into last offseason with a similar mindset and grabbed Monroe, only for it to destroy their elite D and be a dud on offense due to the lack of shooters.

Good comp, only maybe MCW is that awful because their decline began the minute they traded for him.

Vincent
05-27-2016, 02:08 PM
I really like Okafor's game, it's kind of sad to see people giving up on him even after a pretty decent rookie year

Rivera
05-27-2016, 02:15 PM
If this was heinke still in charge the media would be having a field day!

There goes the 76ers tanking seasons again!

FOXHOUND
05-27-2016, 02:16 PM
Good comp, only maybe MCW is that awful because their decline began the minute they traded for him.

Lol that's true, good point. Maybe just stay away from the 76ers young cast offs? That -10 on/off court differential Okafor had last year ain't pretty.

FOXHOUND
05-27-2016, 02:18 PM
If this was heinke still in charge the media would be having a field day!

There goes the 76ers tanking seasons again!

They have to repurpose their assets. Even after Okafor they have two C's and a PF from high picks. How many centers can you have?

PhillyFaninLA
05-27-2016, 03:10 PM
I really like Okafor's game, it's kind of sad to see people giving up on him even after a pretty decent rookie year

No one is giving up on him, he has good trade value, more than anyone else on the roster. He can get us possibly 2 or 3 long term pieces, even if it is someone like Dunn or Murray and another pick and possibly a upside bench player or starter.

PhillyFaninLA
05-27-2016, 03:11 PM
Lol that's true, good point. Maybe just stay away from the 76ers young cast offs? That -10 on/off court differential Okafor had last year ain't pretty.

Talk as much trash as you want....clever and orginal....our future is potentially much brighter than yours.

Oakmont_4
05-27-2016, 03:34 PM
No one is giving up on him, he has good trade value, more than anyone else on the roster. He can get us possibly 2 or 3 long term pieces, even if it is someone like Dunn or Murray and another pick and possibly a upside bench player or starter.

He's not getting you that much. Depends on the pick, but maybe 3 role players. Straight up he's not getting you a very good player. Teams aren't going to over pay for him, A. Because of his limitations and B. Because Philly nearly HAS to trade one of their C's.

I don't think his value is nearly as high as people think.

I'd be pissed if the C's even traded #3 for him straight up. I don't like the fit with our team, I'd actually prefer Noel...But still wouldn't trade #3 straight up for him.

FOXHOUND
05-27-2016, 04:16 PM
Talk as much trash as you want....clever and orginal....our future is potentially much brighter than yours.

:love:

Aust
05-27-2016, 04:44 PM
SportsCenter @SportsCenter

76ers to explore trading Jahlil Okafor & Nerlens Noel, sources tell @ESPNSteinLine & @chadfordinsider.


The Philadelphia 76ers will explore trading Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel in the buildup to the NBA draft on June 23, according to league sources.

Sources told ESPN that the Sixers are determined to gauge the trade market for both Okafor and Noel and are increasingly likely to move at least one of them in conjunction with the draft, in which Philadelphia holds the No. 1 overall selection for the first time since selecting Allen Iverson in 1996.

In recent weeks, rival executives have been forecasting Philadelphia to be one of the most active teams this offseason in terms of pursuing trades, with new personnel boss Bryan Colangelo known to be aggressive and openly determined to speed Philadelphia's return to playoff contention.

In an interview with ESPN Radio's Russillo and Kanell earlier this month, Sixers coach Brett Brown hinted at the club's desire to be active.

"Think about these types of resources," Brown said during the interview. "We have the first pick. We have the 24th and 26th pick. On our current roster, we have Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor, Jerami Grant [and] Robert Covington. We had a [2014] draft class that effectively redshirted in Joel Embiid and Dario Saric.

"For the first time in my four years, we're going to enter a legitimate approach to free agency."

Colangelo, for his part, told Bleacher Report Radio last week that "everybody is thinking about winning as opposed to prolonging the rebuilding process."

‎Sources describe Okafor, at this early juncture, as the most likely of the two to be moved in the wake of his rocky rookie season off the floor.

But the Sixers are known to be considering a wide range of possibilities, given the prospect of fellow lottery picks Embiid and Saric finally making their Philadelphia debuts next season to add to the Sixers' deep frontcourt and the well-chronicled concerns about whether Okafor and Noel can play together.

After winning the recent draft lottery, Philadelphia is in the process of choosing whether to take LSU's Ben Simmons or Duke's Brandon Ingram with the first overall pick.

Among the options the Sixers have is trying to trade Okafor or Noel for another high pick in the looming draft to address their backcourt needs or building a package around either one in a trade for veteran talent, either in June or in July after free agency starts.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15769627/philadelphia-76ers-explore-trades-involving-jahlil-okafor-nerlens-noel

Glad to see them get a "win" mindset.
Would be dumb to move Noel, Okafor has to be the guy. Trade him will his value is still high.

Fox makes a good point about putting a specific roster around him. I originally thought Boston would be a good spot for him, but after reading posts from the Celtic reddit, he's not a great fit.

Forget where I saw it or even how legit it was, but I heard Philly wants a top 6 or 7 pick for him.

Tony_Starks
05-27-2016, 04:49 PM
I can see teams wanting him, but no one is going to overpay for him.

He's skilled offensively but seems legitimately lazy on defense. I give him a bit of a pass because of playing in that fiasco but then again wasn't that the label on him already coming out of college?

Alayla
05-27-2016, 05:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15769627/philadelphia-76ers-explore-trades-involving-jahlil-okafor-nerlens-noel

Glad to see them get a "win" mindset.
Would be dumb to move Noel, Okafor has to be the guy. Trade him will his value is still high.

Fox makes a good point about putting a specific roster around him. I originally thought Boston would be a good spot for him, but after reading posts from the Celtic reddit, he's not a great fit.

Forget where I saw it or even how legit it was, but I heard Philly wants a top 6 or 7 pick for him.

That would be a brutal undersell I don't think anyone does that and I'm not even big on Okafor

5ass
05-27-2016, 05:17 PM
I would imagine the Pelicans give up the sixth pick easily, but from what I understand in this draft the sixth isn't that valuable. So yeah I think pelicans need to add more, but they really dont have any more assets that the sixers would want.

Rivera
05-27-2016, 05:22 PM
They have to repurpose their assets. Even after Okafor they have two C's and a PF from high picks. How many centers can you have?

You completely missed my point. My post had nothing to do with basketball and everything to do with media

warfelg
05-27-2016, 05:27 PM
The award for revealing the worst kept secret in the NBA goes to....

hugepatsfan
05-27-2016, 05:42 PM
There's a lot to like about Okafor's game but it's not perfect. I think in order to overcome his defensive deficiencies he needs to develop his passing and shooting. He's always going to be a liability on the defensive end in a pick and roll heavy era so he needs to be so dominant on the other end that it overcome that. I think he's a great talent but tough to make a building block player because of the limitations to his game. I would like to see the Celtics inquire on him but I don't think I would give up much more than the #3 pick. I'd throw in former 1st rounders like Rozier or RJ Hunter but they don't hold much value. If he were in this draft I'd take him 3rd but I wouldn't also give up Smart/Bradley for him I don't think. Torn on it though, I admit. Might change the answer tomorrow because the offensive post moves are tempting.

Looking around the league though, I think they are going to have a tough time finding a landing spot. Don't see a lot of good fits. I don't see a proven player out there that a team would be willing to give - reading the PHI forum they've suggested CJ McCollum from POR, Middleton from MIL, Bledsoe from PHX. In all cases, I don't think the other team would do the deal for Okafor. Maybe PHX would. MIL is having the same issues Okafor does with Monroe. I think POR has a stable of good young bigs to not give their secondary scorer up. PHX is probably the closest bet.

nycericanguy
05-27-2016, 05:44 PM
Okafor for Butler makes sense, but you have to wonder if CHI wants to take on another no defense C after Eddy Curry. And CHI would probably ask for more, but those two could be the centerpieces.

PhillyFaninLA
05-27-2016, 05:51 PM
He's not getting you that much. Depends on the pick, but maybe 3 role players. Straight up he's not getting you a very good player. Teams aren't going to over pay for him, A. Because of his limitations and B. Because Philly nearly HAS to trade one of their C's.

I don't think his value is nearly as high as people think.

I'd be pissed if the C's even traded #3 for him straight up. I don't like the fit with our team, I'd actually prefer Noel...But still wouldn't trade #3 straight up for him.


We'll see and we may get it from your team

hugepatsfan
05-27-2016, 05:51 PM
Okafor for Butler makes sense, but you have to wonder if CHI wants to take on another no defense C after Eddy Curry. And CHI would probably ask for more, but those two could be the centerpieces.

I don't see why CHI would move a 26 year old proven all star for Okafor, who has skills but also big time questions on one end of the floor. It's not like Butler is older and has a closing window. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't buy the Butler rumors. They make little sense to me unless they're getting back a Ben Simmons type player.

PhillyFaninLA
05-27-2016, 05:54 PM
There's a lot to like about Okafor's game but it's not perfect. I think in order to overcome his defensive deficiencies he needs to develop his passing and shooting. He's always going to be a liability on the defensive end in a pick and roll heavy era so he needs to be so dominant on the other end that it overcome that. I think he's a great talent but tough to make a building block player because of the limitations to his game. I would like to see the Celtics inquire on him but I don't think I would give up much more than the #3 pick. I'd throw in former 1st rounders like Rozier or RJ Hunter but they don't hold much value. If he were in this draft I'd take him 3rd but I wouldn't also give up Smart/Bradley for him I don't think. Torn on it though, I admit. Might change the answer tomorrow because the offensive post moves are tempting.

Looking around the league though, I think they are going to have a tough time finding a landing spot. Don't see a lot of good fits. I don't see a proven player out there that a team would be willing to give - reading the PHI forum they've suggested CJ McCollum from POR, Middleton from MIL, Bledsoe from PHX. In all cases, I don't think the other team would do the deal for Okafor. Maybe PHX would. MIL is having the same issues Okafor does with Monroe. I think POR has a stable of good young bigs to not give their secondary scorer up. PHX is probably the closest bet.

It would probably be 3 and Smart or Bradley, something like that...I want 4 and 13 from Phoenix if we can do that

warfelg
05-27-2016, 05:58 PM
The award for revealing the worst kept secret in the NBA goes to....

hugepatsfan
05-27-2016, 06:02 PM
It would probably be 3 and Smart or Bradley, something like that...I want 4 and 13 from Phoenix if we can do that

See I think that's an overpay from BOS. Compare it to your PHX offer... I wouldn't trade Smart/Bradley for #13 straight up. Wouldn't even consider it. Not that I think Smart/Bradley are stars but Smart would easily go before #13 if he were in this draft. Bradley is an all NBA defender and solid supporting offensive piece - much better than I'd expect out of #13. And he's signed to a very reasonable deal too.

It's still a tough decision because I do like his game and I've even suggested that offer in your forum before. But as of now I'm the side of the fence leaning against it.

My dream trade right now would be #3, Olynyk, #16 to SAC for WCS and #8. SAC gets the chance to replace Rondo with Dunn and Olynyk's shooting makes him a nice fit next to Cousins/Koufos in the front court.

5ass
05-27-2016, 06:56 PM
Okafor for Butler makes sense, but you have to wonder if CHI wants to take on another no defense C after Eddy Curry. And CHI would probably ask for more, but those two could be the centerpieces.

The best option is to trade for a vet if they really want to improve next year like they say they will. Otherwise I dont see them picking up any worthwhile FAs even if they overpay. Just too many teams out there with cap space. They won't be the only team willing to overpay. I definitely think they need to add more to get Butler. Probably need to include the Lakers pick at least. So you make that trade then move the late 1sts for Jeff Teague, and sign a FA SG/SF. JMO

warfelg
05-27-2016, 07:28 PM
The best option is to trade for a vet if they really want to improve next year like they say they will. Otherwise I dont see them picking up any worthwhile FAs even if they overpay. Just too many teams out there with cap space. They won't be the only team willing to overpay. I definitely think they need to add more to get Butler. Probably need to include the Lakers pick at least. So you make that trade then move the late 1sts for Jeff Teague, and sign a FA SG/SF. JMO

I don't mind Teague. But a Butler and Dimmons pairing might not work as great as some think.

Rumor is Colangelo really likes Murray and Bender as well. I would love to see a three way deal that nets us #3 and Danny Green somehow. Green would be a get vet leader and pairing with Simmons.

Pair the late 1sts with Covington for Teague. Use FA for a Wing player.

2016/17:
Teague-green-FA-Simmons-Embiid.

Not a world beater yet, but that could be done and keep the LAL pick, Sac 2019 pick, Sac 2017 swap, Saric, and Noel. Basically our 5 next best assets.

5ass
05-27-2016, 07:49 PM
That's still a 20ish win team though. Green is good with the Spurs, put him on the sixers and he's just an overpaid vet that doesn't help much. Embiid won't be playing more than 20 mpp, and he's still going to be a rookie. I dont think he'll make much of an impact in his first year even if 100% healthy. Teague would be a nice addition, but not enough to make a significant improvement IMO. He was disappointing this year.

theducksmuggler
05-27-2016, 08:41 PM
Okafor+#24+#26 to the Boston Celtics for the #3+#16+Avery Bradley, 76ers leave the draft with say Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, Wade Baldwin, and Avery Bradley this is one trade i wouldn't be upset with and I think works for both teams.
Okafor+Stauskus+#24+#26 to the Chicago Bulls for Jimmy Butler+#14 pick and you can grab the best guard availabe say Timothe Luwawa,Furkan Korkmaz,Demetrius Jackson or Wade Baldwin(My personal favorite) say you leave the draft with Simmons, Butler, and Baldwin i would be very very very happy with this but not sure if Chicago does it.

More-Than-Most
05-27-2016, 08:47 PM
One has to go... Him or Noel... He has more potential and insane potential but Noel fits better and OKA will get us much more than Noel so its smart

Noel gets you a top 15-20 pick... Oka gets you a top 5 pick... Its moronic because Noel should be valued more because of how godly he is defensively but in this league offense------------->Everything else.... Oka is a for sure future all star though... Will he be a superstar or a top 10 player? Depends on his work ethic/System and how much he tries to learn defense.

More-Than-Most
05-27-2016, 08:51 PM
I am not trading OKA unless its for a top 5 pick or something with the suns and their PG... War had an ideal trade that would be perfect for us... Either trade him for the number 2-sorry laker fans-.... The number 3 or to the suns for some kind of package.

Jason Giovanni
05-27-2016, 08:57 PM
Lakers might be dumb enough to move #2 for him.

More-Than-Most
05-27-2016, 09:08 PM
Lakers might be dumb enough to move #2 for him.

It would be so moronic... I like OKA... I think he is being treated unfairly on defense overall as well.. The team around him was garbage... He was a good defender in the post but lost outside the post and his offensive game seems unstoppable at times esp with no help and how often he faced double teams.... That all being said I think he has more value currently than a russell but Id take Russ in a heart beat for him because Id legit sex Russ... That being said if the lakers trade the number 2 for anyone not named PG/James/Durant/Westbrook/Curry/AD they are ********.... Ingram/Simmons might bust but you cant trade away that potential.

That being said I think their front office is moronic and bad and I think they will **** this up and ingram/simmons will go to Boston because the lakers will trade the pick away or take a bender.

eDush
05-27-2016, 10:29 PM
I really like Okafor's game, it's kind of sad to see people giving up on him even after a pretty decent rookie yearD'Angelo had a pretty decent rookie season too but the Lakeshow is keeping the ice in his vains that gossip infidelities to TMZ dude which tells you who has more upside:nod:

Aust
05-28-2016, 03:39 AM
One has to go... Him or Noel... He has more potential and insane potential but Noel fits better and OKA will get us much more than Noel so its smart

Noel gets you a top 15-20 pick... Oka gets you a top 5 pick... Its moronic because Noel should be valued more because of how godly he is defensively but in this league offense------------->Everything else.... Oka is a for sure future all star though... Will he be a superstar or a top 10 player? Depends on his work ethic/System and how much he tries to learn defense.

No way. We need to have a sig bet or something.

PhillyFaninLA
05-28-2016, 06:07 AM
Okafor+#24+#26 to the Boston Celtics for the #3+#16+Avery Bradley, 76ers leave the draft with say Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, Wade Baldwin, and Avery Bradley this is one trade i wouldn't be upset with and I think works for both teams.
Okafor+Stauskus+#24+#26 to the Chicago Bulls for Jimmy Butler+#14 pick and you can grab the best guard availabe say Timothe Luwawa,Furkan Korkmaz,Demetrius Jackson or Wade Baldwin(My personal favorite) say you leave the draft with Simmons, Butler, and Baldwin i would be very very very happy with this but not sure if Chicago does it.

Love the first deal. I think we might be able to do a little better than Baldwin but assuming Saric comes over we have a starting five of

Murray, Bradley, Saric, Simmons, Noel and on the bench hoepfully a healthy Embiid getting minutes from both Noel and Simmons, Grant, Convington (love them coming off the bench), holmes, Ish (hopefully we retain him), McConnell, Thompson, Holmes, and Wood, maybe Stastkuas remembers how to hit an open 3...that is solid, hopefully keep Brand for a vet bench presence, and maybe sign 2 of Conley, Batum, Bazemore, and Barnes

With that Boston deal you are proposing we really have a potentially nice foundation to build from and see what pieced fit.

CELTICS4LYFE
05-28-2016, 11:03 AM
3 team trade (main pieces. Fillers obviously involved)

Philly gets #3

Boston gets Jimmy

Chicago gets Okafor

xbrackattackx
05-28-2016, 11:28 AM
Okafor needs Pops.

KG2TB
05-28-2016, 11:54 AM
3 team trade (main pieces. Fillers obviously involved)

Philly gets #3

Boston gets Jimmy

Chicago gets Okafor

So Chicago trades Jimmy straight up for Okafor? :laugh2: No thanks.

lavell12
05-28-2016, 12:34 PM
Why not just build around Oak and Simmons/Ingram?

lavell12
05-28-2016, 12:42 PM
Lakers might be dumb enough to move #2 for him.

That deal actually makes more since for LA than Philly b/c Ingram and Simmons don't mix together but Oak matches better with either.

warfelg
05-28-2016, 12:49 PM
That deal actually makes more since for LA than Philly b/c Ingram and Simmons don't mix together but Oak matches better with either.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Forever35
05-28-2016, 01:12 PM
It would probably be 3 and Smart or Bradley, something like that...I want 4 and 13 from Phoenix if we can do that

I don't see Smart or Bradley being added... It's obvious Philly wants a PG and the 3rd pick guarantees Dunn...


One has to go... Him or Noel... He has more potential and insane potential but Noel fits better and OKA will get us much more than Noel so its smart

Noel gets you a top 15-20 pick... Oka gets you a top 5 pick... Its moronic because Noel should be valued more because of how godly he is defensively but in this league offense------------->Everything else.... Oka is a for sure future all star though... Will he be a superstar or a top 10 player? Depends on his work ethic/System and how much he tries to learn defense.

3rd for Okafor and 16th for Noel... :D

hugepatsfan
05-28-2016, 01:19 PM
One has to go... Him or Noel... He has more potential and insane potential but Noel fits better and OKA will get us much more than Noel so its smart

Noel gets you a top 15-20 pick... Oka gets you a top 5 pick... Its moronic because Noel should be valued more because of how godly he is defensively but in this league offense------------->Everything else.... Oka is a for sure future all star though... Will he be a superstar or a top 10 player? Depends on his work ethic/System and how much he tries to learn defense.

How about this...

BOS trades #3 to NO for #6 and next years first rounder. They move they can take Dunn.

PHX goes Bender at #4. MIN takes one of Hield/Murray at #5.

BOS trades #6 to PHI for Noel and you guys take either Hield or Murray to play SG.

You guys trades other picks to ATL for Teague.

Forever35
05-28-2016, 01:20 PM
I can see you guys settling for a deal that is more favorable for the C's... You have roster spots to fill especially if Saric stays overseas... The C's have more picks than roster spots...

The C's also hold leverage at 3 even though Dunn's team has said he doesn't want to play for the C's or the Suns... Oh well... Let the Dunn sweepstakes begin...

Forever35
05-28-2016, 01:29 PM
How about this...

BOS trades #3 to NO for #6 and next years first rounder. They move they can take Dunn.

PHX goes Bender at #4. MIN takes one of Hield/Murray at #5.

BOS trades #6 to PHI for Noel and you guys take either Hield or Murray to play SG.

You guys trades other picks to ATL for Teague.

That's a fair deal, but I really think Dunn is the guy Colangelo wants... The 1st pick IMO was a consolation prize for them... They are gonna work hard to get Dunn...

Scoots
05-28-2016, 01:30 PM
No one is giving up on him, he has good trade value, more than anyone else on the roster. He can get us possibly 2 or 3 long term pieces, even if it is someone like Dunn or Murray and another pick and possibly a upside bench player or starter.

No offense, but that's a dream.

Forever35
05-28-2016, 01:34 PM
You guys trades other picks to ATL for Teague.

I know he has no say, but I see Teague livid and pissed going from a playoff caliber team to a lottery team... For him it would be a year in purgatory... I also see no interest of re-signing with Philly...

ghettosean
05-28-2016, 01:39 PM
I really like Okafor's game, it's kind of sad to see people giving up on him even after a pretty decent rookie year

He just doesn't want to be there and after last season who could blame him.

FreshestTakes
05-28-2016, 01:40 PM
It would be so moronic... I like OKA... I think he is being treated unfairly on defense overall as well.. The team around him was garbage... He was a good defender in the post but lost outside the post and his offensive game seems unstoppable at times esp with no help and how often he faced double teams.... That all being said I think he has more value currently than a russell but Id take Russ in a heart beat for him because Id legit sex Russ... That being said if the lakers trade the number 2 for anyone not named PG/James/Durant/Westbrook/Curry/AD they are ********.... Ingram/Simmons might bust but you cant trade away that potential.

That being said I think their front office is moronic and bad and I think they will **** this up and ingram/simmons will go to Boston because the lakers will trade the pick away or take a bender.

Yeah... nah


OKA doesn't have nearly the trade value that the Sixers want and thats a fact. The league is moving away from slow and non defending bigmen who play in the post. Don't get me wrong, there are teams out there that would take him for the right price - but no one is going to trade a young guard with lots of upside for him.

When you add in the fact that the Sixers are over a barrel with all of the front court players and the fact that Oka has demonstrated multiple personality issues off the court.... he's just not someone that teams are going to trade away much for.

Russell has way more value right now than OKA and it's because of the position he plays. It's nearly impossible nowadays to get a franchise level PG in FA these days. Getting a serviceable or all star big man isn't as big of an issue.

The Sixers need to bite the bullet and trade with the Celtics IMO. If the Celtics are willing to take Oka and some other assets in exchange for the 3 then they need to do it. Kris Dunn looks like a franchise PG to me and thats what is needed (even more than a Ben Simmons of Ingram).

I think the Lakers would entertain moving Clarkson in a deal for Oka... but I hope they don't. Randle + Oka would be a terrible defensive front court

5ass
05-28-2016, 02:30 PM
If the sixers are thinking of trading Noel and keeping Okafor because they dont want to put too much trust in Embiid's health... how about this trade?

Sixers receive the 6th pick
Pelicans receive Vucevic + maybe a protected pick from Orlando
Magic receive Noel+ Asik

The sixers get a top draft pick from Noel and use it to draft a guard. Some will say Noel doesn't have that much value because he's expiring, but others will say he does because its not a strong draft.

Pelicans skip the part where they try to develop a rookie. Anthony Davis is in his prime, and should be making the play offs. A front court of Davis and Vucevic is unstoppable offensively. Defensively they're atleast above average IMO. Davis is the type of defender Vucevic needs next to him. On the right team I think Vucevic will look like a top 5ish center. I would bet that they form the best frontcourt in the league with two 20-10 guys who can stretch the floor. Vucevic would easily be one of the best players Davis ever played with and a legit second option on a play off team. They also dump Asik's contract and avoid paying big money for a back up center they don't need.

Magic get some defense at center and will be able to form an elite defensive team that can force turnovers and run. Ask would be a perfect back up center because of his size and Noel's injury concerns.

hugepatsfan
05-28-2016, 02:58 PM
If the sixers are thinking of trading Noel and keeping Okafor because they dont want to put too much trust in Embiid's health... how about this trade?

Sixers receive the 6th pick
Pelicans receive Vucevic + maybe a protected pick from Orlando
Magic receive Noel+ Asik

The sixers get a top draft pick from Noel and use it to draft a guard. Some will say Noel doesn't have that much value because he's expiring, but others will say he does because its not a strong draft.

Pelicans skip the part where they try to develop a rookie. Anthony Davis is in his prime, and should be making the play offs. A front court of Davis and Vucevic is unstoppable offensively. Defensively they're atleast above average IMO. Davis is the type of defender Vucevic needs next to him. On the right team I think Vucevic will look like a top 5ish center. I would bet that they form the best frontcourt in the league with two 20-10 guys who can stretch the floor. Vucevic would easily be one of the best players Davis ever played with and a legit second option on a play off team. They also dump Asik's contract and avoid paying big money for a back up center they don't need.

Magic get some defense at center and will be able to form an elite defensive team that can force turnovers and run. Ask would be a perfect back up center because of his size and Noel's injury concerns.

I wouldn't mind Boston jumping in on that deal and giving up #3. Instead of Amir your team gets Amir Johnson who doesnt tie up long term money. PHI would obviously prefer #3 to #6 and I imagine your team would still do it.

5ass
05-28-2016, 03:04 PM
I don't see Boston giving up #3 for vucevic, but I know very little about this draft. Vucecic would be a nice fit with Boston though. I'm sure Stevens would make it work defensively.
Vucevic + 11th pick to Boston
3rd pick+ amir to the Magic

I think the value would be better for the Celtics here, but again it all depends on the draft prospects available at three.

hugepatsfan
05-28-2016, 03:24 PM
I don't see Boston giving up #3 for vucevic, but I know very little about this draft. Vucecic would be a nice fit with Boston though. I'm sure Stevens would make it work defensively.
Vucevic + 11th pick to Boston
3rd pick+ amir to the Magic

I think the value would be better for the Celtics here, but again it all depends on the draft prospects available at three.

I'd do that. I would then try to pry Capela away from HOU. Olynyk would be a great fit in D'Antoni's offense. Basically an offense/defense swap and I'd even throw in #23.

Then in FA I overpay Barnes to a max deal. Give Marvin Williams a huge 1 year deal like we did Amir Johnson (big money to keep it at 1 year). Re-sign Evan Turner.

PG: Thomas (30 minutes), Smart (18 minutes)
SG: Bradley (25 minutes), Turner (16 minutes), Smart (7 minutes)
SF: Barnes (12 minutes), Crowder (25 minutes), Turner (11 minutes)
PF: Williams (25 minutes), Barnes (20 minutes), Capela (3 minutes)
C: Vucevic (30 minutes), Capela (18 minutes)

We'd still have 2 more BRK picks that are hopefully high and max cap space next year (and the year after if we sit on it next year or just do 1 year deals). Gives us some opportunity to add a star wing.

PhillyFaninLA
05-28-2016, 03:40 PM
No offense, but that's a dream.

I don't agree. I think we could get 4 and 13 or 3 and Bradley or Smart...the Celtics have a need and with Thomas they can afford to trade Bradly or Smart...While I would prefer trying to get 4 and 13...I'd be 100% ok with 3 and one of those guys....I think the Celtics would do it...it could be a win win situation.

PhillyFaninLA
05-28-2016, 03:41 PM
I do want to add one thing to people that are not thinking about this....the Sixers are not run by Hinkie...they are run by multiple people that have built successful teams, including guys that have done it together.

The judgement you have for us today shouldn't be the same as they where a year ago.

SeoulBeatz
05-28-2016, 04:04 PM
Yeah... nah


OKA doesn't have nearly the trade value that the Sixers want and thats a fact. The league is moving away from slow and non defending bigmen who play in the post. Don't get me wrong, there are teams out there that would take him for the right price - but no one is going to trade a young guard with lots of upside for him.

When you add in the fact that the Sixers are over a barrel with all of the front court players and the fact that Oka has demonstrated multiple personality issues off the court.... he's just not someone that teams are going to trade away much for.

Russell has way more value right now than OKA and it's because of the position he plays. It's nearly impossible nowadays to get a franchise level PG in FA these days. Getting a serviceable or all star big man isn't as big of an issue.

The Sixers need to bite the bullet and trade with the Celtics IMO. If the Celtics are willing to take Oka and some other assets in exchange for the 3 then they need to do it. Kris Dunn looks like a franchise PG to me and thats what is needed (even more than a Ben Simmons of Ingram).

I think the Lakers would entertain moving Clarkson in a deal for Oka... but I hope they don't. Randle + Oka would be a terrible defensive front court

I would be all for that trade, would benefit both teams.

Danny Ainge offered up the Nets Pick (which had the potential to be #1 overall at the time) AND Marcus Smart for Okafor at the trade deadline, and Hinkie eventually backed out of the deal.

Now with the pick set at #3 and the Sixers in desperate need of a guard I would pull the trigger on that deal in an instant.

Should be an interesting summer, the roster will look completely different compared to last year with Simmons, Embiid, and Saric joining the fold, but they'll finally have a cornerstone to build around so the trend upward starts next season.

Forever35
05-28-2016, 05:35 PM
I do want to add one thing to people that are not thinking about this....the Sixers are not run by Hinkie...they are run by multiple people that have built successful teams, including guys that have done it together.

The judgement you have for us today shouldn't be the same as they where a year ago.

I actually think the Colangelo's are going to make some serious moves to start get away from tanking...

Forever35
05-28-2016, 05:39 PM
I'd do that. I would then try to pry Capela away from HOU. Olynyk would be a great fit in D'Antoni's offense. Basically an offense/defense swap and I'd even throw in #23.



I flip flop with KO all the time... His injuries scare me but his skill set amazes me... I think Stevens gets the C's to run alot also which KO will also thrive, but he needs to put together a couple of healthy seasons...

I'm not to fond of including KO... 7ft'rs who can pass very well, shoot the three and increase a rotations numbers when he is playing is too big of a "no no" on the trade scale...

I'm glad he had the surgery which I also think was DA's plan to keep him a C at least for now...

Forever35
05-28-2016, 05:43 PM
I don't see Boston giving up #3 for vucevic, but I know very little about this draft. Vucecic would be a nice fit with Boston though. I'm sure Stevens would make it work defensively.
Vucevic + 11th pick to Boston
3rd pick+ amir to the Magic

I think the value would be better for the Celtics here, but again it all depends on the draft prospects available at three.

I don't think Vogel let's Vucevic go...

TheNumber37
05-28-2016, 06:12 PM
I would trade for a high pick and quality vets.

Okafor for Derrick Rose

5ass
05-28-2016, 06:45 PM
I don't think Vogel let's Vucevic go...

Most magic fans want to see Vucevic traded for a rim protector. Vogel also wants to add play off experience to the roster. If they max out Horford I can see Vucevic getting traded. Not that Horford is a great rim protector, but atleast he can play PF. Not saying I love the trade, but the third pick and Amir seems like great value. I really know nothing about Bender's game, but I trust Hennigan's drafting. If Hennigan feels Bender has star potential this trade would be great.

warfelg
05-28-2016, 07:17 PM
Most magic fans want to see Vucevic traded for a rim protector. Vogel also wants to add play off experience to the roster. If they max out Horford I can see Vucevic getting traded. Not that Horford is a great rim protector, but atleast he can play PF. Not saying I love the trade, but the third pick and Amir seems like great value. I really know nothing about Bender's game, but I trust Hennigan's drafting. If Hennigan feels Bender has star potential this trade would be great.

I think signing Noah and sliding Vuc to the first big off the bench would be a great move for you guys TBH.

More-Than-Most
05-28-2016, 07:17 PM
I would trade for a high pick and quality vets.

Okafor for Derrick Rose

:laugh:

Just stop

The sixers giving up OKA plus the lakers unprotected next years pick for Rose and butler then yes... But nobody wants rose and his horrid contract/terrible team attitude

I take this back because I just threw up in my mouth a little... I love butler but **** that.

gaughan333
05-28-2016, 08:39 PM
:laugh:

Just stop

The sixers giving up OKA plus the lakers unprotected next years pick for Rose and butler then yes... But nobody wants rose and his horrid contract/terrible team attitude

I take this back because I just threw up in my mouth a little... I love butler but **** that.

Hey man, Derrick's got his future and playing with his son to think about.

Stunner
05-28-2016, 09:30 PM
Terrible team attitude ? Say what LMAOO


I swear people just know off the what outside tells them .

Aust
05-29-2016, 03:52 AM
Most magic fans want to see Vucevic traded for a rim protector. Vogel also wants to add play off experience to the roster. If they max out Horford I can see Vucevic getting traded. Not that Horford is a great rim protector, but atleast he can play PF. Not saying I love the trade, but the third pick and Amir seems like great value. I really know nothing about Bender's game, but I trust Hennigan's drafting. If Hennigan feels Bender has star potential this trade would be great.

He does.

PhillyFaninLA
05-29-2016, 05:30 AM
I would trade for a high pick and quality vets.

Okafor for Derrick Rose

I want no part of Derrick Rose...he is overpaid, Noah plays worse when Rose is on the court (so I don't want him around our bigs), and he can't stay healthy....I would refuse any deal for Derrick Rose

Alayla
05-29-2016, 10:55 AM
Even disregarding the guys IQ Injury history and team issues and age relative to the rest of the team Rose simply is not playing well enough to be worth trading okafor for that's just silly.

Stunner
05-29-2016, 11:06 AM
I want no part of Derrick Rose...he is overpaid, Noah plays worse when Rose is on the court (so I don't want him around our bigs), and he can't stay healthy....I would refuse any deal for Derrick Rose

What does this mean plays worse ?

I swear to god people dont know what they're talking about .


Noah played bad because he was hurt plain and simple . Rose and Noah actually know how to play with each other .


Especially I want to know these Rose team issues as well ? Rose easily one of the locker room friendly guys and will have mostly everyone's back . Rose had never bad mouthed any coach or teammate in his entire career with the Bulls . Man even said he was alright with Bogans starting with him lol


Also to get offer facts straight Rose and Butler was overblown by the media , the real thing was between Noah and Jimmy .

Jimmy forcing himself to be leader didnt SIT too well with other vets . Wasn't that they didn't want him to be a leader but how he went about it . Jimmy brought more attention to the the problems when he didn't want to keep things in house by calling out the coach at the wrong place and time .

Everyone was at fault last season on the Bulls even Pau with his lack of defense and soft mentality. He also never took responsibility it was always what others need to do other than what he need to do .



Rose to Philly doesn't make sense so I wish people would just drop it . Even tho I think he's going to have good season next year . His play improved after Christmas last year , he got over that eye surgery injury that made him have double vision . He was shooting 47% in Jan , 44% in Feb and 46% in March from the field . April he was trying to gut it out playing with a swollen sprained elbow but the coach and doc forced him to sit out .


Hopefully rose doesn't get a freak injury like that elbow to the face next training camp . He played the most games he has since pre ACL . I know he said he's going to be careful with lower body injuries but anything above his legs he's going to play . That's just the steps you have to take with a player with multiple knee injuries . I know he's gonna gut it out come playoffs time tho cuz that's who he is .

IndyRealist
05-29-2016, 11:22 AM
Okafor+#24+#26 to the Boston Celtics for the #3+#16+Avery Bradley, 76ers leave the draft with say Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, Wade Baldwin, and Avery Bradley this is one trade i wouldn't be upset with and I think works for both teams.
Okafor+Stauskus+#24+#26 to the Chicago Bulls for Jimmy Butler+#14 pick and you can grab the best guard availabe say Timothe Luwawa,Furkan Korkmaz,Demetrius Jackson or Wade Baldwin(My personal favorite) say you leave the draft with Simmons, Butler, and Baldwin i would be very very very happy with this but not sure if Chicago does it.

^ This is overrating your own assets.

theducksmuggler
05-29-2016, 02:16 PM
^ This is overrating your own assets.

May I ask why you think that? What type of value do you think Okafor has? I am curios because as a 76ers it is impossible to gauge Okafor's value around the NBA I thought those were pretty reasonable trade offers but I guess now, I know that Boston offered the Nets 1st round pick+Marcus Smart at the deadline but Hinkie balked so Im not sure if his value has gone up or down or stayed the same since then...I hope they dont just give him away for nothing ill be upset

CardinalRed24
05-29-2016, 02:35 PM
Are they counting on Embiid returning healthy? Cuz drafting Ben Simmons does not mean they need to trade the very little talent they actually have to make room for him. Even if Embiid does return, they're going to be very patient with him, and ease him into the rotation. Now I can absolutely understand trading Okafor. He was not the right guy to take in their case last year, and while he proved he could score, he alsovshowed he has no desire to push it on the defensive end. Which is no good. And with attitude, not a guy you want to build your team around. Especially when they have the chance to correct that mistake by drafting Simmons. Noel, on the other hand, is well worth holding onto. He actually hustles and is a good post defender. With plenty room to grow. I'm not sure why they'd want to trade him. He should be looked at as a building block and key peice to the puzzle IMO.

IndyRealist
05-29-2016, 02:45 PM
May I ask why you think that? What type of value do you think Okafor has? I am curios because as a 76ers it is impossible to gauge Okafor's value around the NBA I thought those were pretty reasonable trade offers but I guess now, I know that Boston offered the Nets 1st round pick+Marcus Smart at the deadline but Hinkie balked so Im not sure if his value has gone up or down or stayed the same since then...I hope they dont just give him away for nothing ill be upset

#24 and #26 don't hold a lot of value, trade-wise. People trade those for cash or draft-n-stash Euros with those. You're asking for a mid 1st and a player back in addition so you're saying Okafor is worth more than the #3 which I don't think he is. His rookie year pretty much confirmed all of his weaknesses and hasn't shown that he is capable of overcoming them, or being dominant enough to forgive them. Okafor needed to look MUCH better than he did in college, and he hasn't. Then there's the offcourt issues. Plus the Sixers are in a bind because everyone knows that they have to fix there roster and try to win NOW, as opposed to Hinkie where he could just wait it out for the best deal. Everyone knows Colangelo is under orders from the NBA to get into the playoffs, so he's going to get lowballed from virtually everybody when, in a vacuum, he could otherwise get a better deal. I'm sure someone will bite on him, but it wouldn't be me for the asking price.

As far as Jimmy Butler, he's an all-star and the Bulls' best player. You're not getting him, PLUS a lotto pick, for a sophomore who isn't dominant. No one in their right mind would trade Butler straight up for Okafor, let alone give up a lotto pick.

5ass
05-29-2016, 06:00 PM
I think signing Noah and sliding Vuc to the first big off the bench would be a great move for you guys TBH.

That's one option. Vucevic killed it when he came off the bench. Small sample size of 4 games but he averaged

21.5 PPG- 9 RPG- 2.5APG- 1.3BPG- 1.3SPG shooting 64% all in under 27 mpg. He'd be unstoppable off the bench and he's paid like a bench player.

But whether he comes off the bench or starts Vucevic should be a 30mpg player and he still needs his touches. He currently leads the team in FGA. I think the Magic can get an upgrade defensively and as the rest of the team continues to grow Gordon, Mario, Fournier, and Oladipo are all going to demand more touches and IMO they will offset losing vucevic's offense. All we really need is a center that can roll to the basket and finish lobs. Payton really plays well with that type of center as we saw with Dedmon.

Its most likely we'll never be an elite defensive team with vucevic. The GM and the coach have always put an emphasis on defense. Vucevic is holding back the teams defensive potential, and though he runs the floor very well for a guy his size, he's not very fast up and down the court. The Magic would do well with a guy that block shots, forcing turnovers and running the floor. That is the type of team we all envisioned when we drafted Payton and Gordon. That is why I would love Noel on this team. They'd be able to switch on defense, force turnovers and run the floor.

Payton
Oladipo
Mario
Gordon
Noel

They can all guard multiple positions and should create one of the best defensive teams in the league. Vucevic isn't a bench player IMO. I want to see him start somewhere and I think he has good trade value. That is why I really like that trade to NO for the 6th pick. I think Davis+Vucevic would form the best front court in the league. Both have 7'4+ wingspans and Davis is a good help defender. I don't think defense will be an issue and they should destroy and small ball line up on offense. Vucevic wouldn't have to be the #1 option on offense and that will make him a better defender. Its not like the Magic were a terrible defensive team this this season anyway.

Question is, do you think they can use the 6th pick to get Noel? Hell, if it was me I would throw #6 and #11 at the sixers. I just don't value draft picks as much as most people seem to and I've always liked Noel.

Green_Monster
05-29-2016, 06:24 PM
It would probably be 3 and Smart or Bradley, something like that...I want 4 and 13 from Phoenix if we can do that

Boston won't do that.

Green_Monster
05-29-2016, 06:37 PM
May I ask why you think that? What type of value do you think Okafor has? I am curios because as a 76ers it is impossible to gauge Okafor's value around the NBA I thought those were pretty reasonable trade offers but I guess now, I know that Boston offered the Nets 1st round pick+Marcus Smart at the deadline but Hinkie balked so Im not sure if his value has gone up or down or stayed the same since then...I hope they dont just give him away for nothing ill be upset

I see people saying that Ainge offered that, yet the rumor was actually just around Okafor and the Nets pick. There was never anything about Marcus Smart being involved. So yes, you're probably overrating your assets based on a misheard rumor.

Green_Monster
05-29-2016, 06:43 PM
I would be all for that trade, would benefit both teams.

Danny Ainge offered up the Nets Pick (which had the potential to be #1 overall at the time) AND Marcus Smart for Okafor at the trade deadline, and Hinkie eventually backed out of the deal.

Now with the pick set at #3 and the Sixers in desperate need of a guard I would pull the trigger on that deal in an instant.

Should be an interesting summer, the roster will look completely different compared to last year with Simmons, Embiid, and Saric joining the fold, but they'll finally have a cornerstone to build around so the trend upward starts next season.

The guy who first wrote about that trade rumor never mentioned anything about Smart. With that being the case, I have no idea how Marcus Smart's name has been thrown in there.

Aust
05-29-2016, 09:11 PM
Its most likely we'll never be an elite defensive team with vucevic. The GM and the coach have always put an emphasis on defense. Vucevic is holding back the teams defensive potential, and though he runs the floor very well for a guy his size, he's not very fast up and down the court. The Magic would do well with a guy that block shots, forcing turnovers and running the floor. That is the type of team we all envisioned when we drafted Payton and Gordon. That is why I would love Noel on this team. They'd be able to switch on defense, force turnovers and run the floor.

Payton
Oladipo
Mario
Gordon
Noel

They can all guard multiple positions and should create one of the best defensive teams in the league. Vucevic isn't a bench player IMO. I want to see him start somewhere and I think he has good trade value. That is why I really like that trade to NO for the 6th pick. I think Davis+Vucevic would form the best front court in the league. Both have 7'4+ wingspans and Davis is a good help defender. I don't think defense will be an issue and they should destroy and small ball line up on offense. Vucevic wouldn't have to be the #1 option on offense and that will make him a better defender. Its not like the Magic were a terrible defensive team this this season anyway.

I like that lineup.

5ass
05-30-2016, 12:12 AM
I like that lineup.

Me too. I think Gordon and Oladipo can be good shooters for their positions. I think a lot of Magic fans love Vucevic, but after being used to Dwight's defense, Vucevic is too much of a downgrade on that end. I'd love another DPOY contending center again. They should at least be fun to watch since they're all great athletes.

Pelicans would be sick too.

Holiday
Gordon
Evans
Davis
Vucevic


If they can add some pieces that's a 50 win team if they can stay healthy.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 01:47 AM
I think the player PHI wants in a deal for Okafor/Noel is Jamal Murray. A lot of people say Dunn but he can't shoot. He's ball dominant. They're taking Simmons who's game is playing point forward. Dunn would be a poor fit next to that. Murray can shoot and play off the ball. He can also take on ball handling responsibilities but he has a game outside of it. On the other guys, Bender isn't what PHI needs. Hield to me is less than Murray. That's really the next tier, maybe Jaylen Brown who is a bad fit there himself.

The thing is, I don't think Murray makes it past MIN at #5. So if PHI moves Okafor/Noel for a pick, I think they're going to target BOS and PHX at #3/4. I don't think anyone else is going to land him for a pick.

From BOS's perspective, I think they'd prefer Noel to Okafor. We need scoring no doubt but we also need a rim protector. Noel would be a terrific addition to our front court. I think Ainge would easily give #3 for him.

More-Than-Most
05-30-2016, 02:03 AM
I see people saying that Ainge offered that, yet the rumor was actually just around Okafor and the Nets pick. There was never anything about Marcus Smart being involved. So yes, you're probably overrating your assets based on a misheard rumor.

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-nets-pick-jahlil-okafor-2366890.html

I can honestly give you like 10 plus articles about that being the trade.... Not saying it is true but there were many articles saying it. Oka for just the nets pick at the time just isnt worth.. Oka has more value than that and is now a proven NBA player with great upside who was a number 3 pick.... Trading him for just the number 3 wouldnt make sense.

Aust
05-30-2016, 04:09 AM
http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-nets-pick-jahlil-okafor-2366890.html

I can honestly give you like 10 plus articles about that being the trade.... Not saying it is true but there were many articles saying it. Oka for just the nets pick at the time just isnt worth.. Oka has more value than that and is now a proven NBA player with great upside who was a number 3 pick.... Trading him for just the number 3 wouldnt make sense.

You want Murray?

the brave eagle
05-30-2016, 07:12 AM
I can see teams wanting him, but no one is going to overpay for him.

He's skilled offensively but seems legitimately lazy on defense. I give him a bit of a pass because of playing in that fiasco but then again wasn't that the label on him already coming out of college?

if teams are interested in him than at least one team will overpay...they'd have too

the brave eagle
05-30-2016, 07:16 AM
i could honestly say that the celtics #3 pick isn't worth okafor...why? because the players behind the top 2... no one has as much upside as okafor has an i don't think it's even close

More-Than-Most
05-30-2016, 07:20 AM
You want Murray?

I love him/Dunn and hield.... sixer forum is pro Murray over done by alot... I like Dunn alot but I completely agree its kind of pointless to take dunn if we draft simmons.

the brave eagle
05-30-2016, 07:24 AM
May I ask why you think that? What type of value do you think Okafor has? I am curios because as a 76ers it is impossible to gauge Okafor's value around the NBA I thought those were pretty reasonable trade offers but I guess now, I know that Boston offered the Nets 1st round pick+Marcus Smart at the deadline but Hinkie balked so Im not sure if his value has gone up or down or stayed the same since then...I hope they dont just give him away for nothing ill be upset

i don't think that trade was that bad but honestly the bulls trade is really bad...i'd offer our 1st pick an noel for butler an 16...than trade okafor too the celtics for 3 an smart...you can now have a lineup of smart, butler, covington/free agent, bender/saric an embiid

the brave eagle
05-30-2016, 07:25 AM
or honestly could try an try an trade okafor, pick 24# an lakers 1st rounder back to the lakers for number 2 than draft simmons or ingram to be our number 3 guy

Alayla
05-30-2016, 07:53 AM
I see people saying that Ainge offered that, yet the rumor was actually just around Okafor and the Nets pick. There was never anything about Marcus Smart being involved. So yes, you're probably overrating your assets based on a misheard rumor.

It was reported as as part of a 3 a "very good package" according to Ainge. So while nothing else in particular was mentioned it was implied it was not just 3.

Forever35
05-30-2016, 08:17 AM
http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-nets-pick-jahlil-okafor-2366890.html

I can honestly give you like 10 plus articles about that being the trade.... Not saying it is true but there were many articles saying it. Oka for just the nets pick at the time just isnt worth.. Oka has more value than that and is now a proven NBA player with great upside who was a number 3 pick.... Trading him for just the number 3 wouldnt make sense.

If it were true, I can see Philly not even allowing Hinkie to make any deals knowing he was about to be canned...

"According to a source close to GM Danny Ainge, the team will be willing to give up Smart and Brooklyn’s pick if Sixers were ready to deal Okafor."

Lot's of ???...

Green_Monster
05-30-2016, 08:41 AM
http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-nets-pick-jahlil-okafor-2366890.html

I can honestly give you like 10 plus articles about that being the trade.... Not saying it is true but there were many articles saying it. Oka for just the nets pick at the time just isnt worth.. Oka has more value than that and is now a proven NBA player with great upside who was a number 3 pick.... Trading him for just the number 3 wouldnt make sense.

That article uses the original article as its source. The original article claims it was Okafor and the Nets pick, it never mentions Smart. Literally every article is just going off of the Boston Herald one. Once again, I have no idea how his name is thrown in there. I'm guessing some Philly based website decided to throw his name in there to make it seem like a better deal, and it caught on a little? All I know is anyone who says Smart was in the talks isn't following the original (and only, as far as I can tell) source.

Green_Monster
05-30-2016, 09:08 AM
It was reported as as part of a 3 a "very good package" according to Ainge. So while nothing else in particular was mentioned it was implied it was not just 3.

Sure, I just think it's silly to pretend that Smart was in the package when we don't know if that's the case.

IndyRealist
05-30-2016, 09:33 AM
http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-nets-pick-jahlil-okafor-2366890.html

I can honestly give you like 10 plus articles about that being the trade.... Not saying it is true but there were many articles saying it. Oka for just the nets pick at the time just isnt worth.. Oka has more value than that and is now a proven NBA player with great upside who was a number 3 pick.... Trading him for just the number 3 wouldnt make sense.

When that happens it's usually one big circle jerk, all these articles are just quoting each other.

MAINE YANKEE
05-30-2016, 09:55 AM
Okafor to the Celtics for Marcus Smart and another player, keep #3 draft choice.

theducksmuggler
05-30-2016, 09:57 AM
There is one thing I know about this Jahlil Okafor trade stuff that either side of the argument is going to be surprised by his value. I am really having a difficult time gauging his overall value as a 76ers fan I am being told I am overvaluing him but Im just basing it off of his age,talent, and rookie contract and what I am reading in the "rumor mill". I think when and if a trade goes down it is either going to be 76ers fans who think they either won the trade or got lowballed I really dont think there is a middle ground. People that are not 76ers fans seem to be in my opinion really under valuing Okafor and that he has 3 years left on a rookie contract and I think are going to surprised with what the 76ers will be able to get for him.

SeoulBeatz
05-30-2016, 10:21 AM
There is one thing I know about this Jahlil Okafor trade stuff that either side of the argument is going to be surprised by his value. I am really having a difficult time gauging his overall value as a 76ers fan I am being told I am overvaluing him but Im just basing it off of his age,talent, and rookie contract and what I am reading in the "rumor mill". I think when and if a trade goes down it is either going to be 76ers fans who think they either won the trade or got lowballed I really dont think there is a middle ground. People that are not 76ers fans seem to be in my opinion really under valuing Okafor and that he has 3 years left on a rookie contract and I think are going to surprised with what the 76ers will be able to get for him.

Good post.

I think the impression of him being undervalued by outsiders is due to the fact that teams KNOW the Sixers would like to move one of their bigs. On the other hand, the Sixers are in no rush to acquire a guard. They'd be fine tanking for another season considering next years draft is stacked and they have 3 potential 1st round picks in that one. There are plenty of PG's to choose from next year.

That being said, Okafor put up 17.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.2 bpg on 51%FG and 69%FT, 17.1 PER. He is one of the most polished post scorers in the league already at 20 years old, he's unguardable in the post 1 on 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

The downside is his rebounding and defense need work and he had a couple offcourt issues (that were overblown, frankly).

On the court, he has no character issues whatsoever. He's not a headcase, he listens to coaches, comes to work every game, and could be a potential 20, 10, and 1.5 big down the line.

If he were in this year's draft he'd be a top 3 pick (hence why the Sixers want a pick within that 3-6 range). I think that's a fair assessment as to what we should expect in a trade for him.

PhillyFaninLA
05-30-2016, 10:33 AM
That article uses the original article as its source. The original article claims it was Okafor and the Nets pick, it never mentions Smart. Literally every article is just going off of the Boston Herald one. Once again, I have no idea how his name is thrown in there. I'm guessing some Philly based website decided to throw his name in there to make it seem like a better deal, and it caught on a little? All I know is anyone who says Smart was in the talks isn't following the original (and only, as far as I can tell) source.

So you work for the Celtics and are on the calls regarding trades...congradulations, that is an awesome job you have....because if that isn't your job than you are ignorant, elitist, and entitled, and your clearly not any of those things so congrats on the awesome job....if that isn't your job you are basing your opinion on what was actually reported...so hopefully you can Ainge's seat one day because you obviously are not some ingonant, entitled, elitist that is making there personal opinion that big, so good luck on your role in directly building the Celtics.

theducksmuggler
05-30-2016, 10:47 AM
Good post.

I think the impression of him being undervalued by outsiders is due to the fact that teams KNOW the Sixers would like to move one of their bigs. On the other hand, the Sixers are in no rush to acquire a guard. They'd be fine tanking for another season considering next years draft is stacked and they have 3 potential 1st round picks in that one. There are plenty of PG's to choose from next year.

That being said, Okafor put up 17.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.2 bpg on 51%FG and 69%FT, 17.1 PER. He is one of the most polished post scorers in the league already at 20 years old, he's unguardable in the post 1 on 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

The downside is his rebounding and defense need work and he had a couple offcourt issues (that were overblown, frankly).

On the court, he has no character issues whatsoever. He's not a headcase, he listens to coaches, comes to work every game, and could be a potential 20, 10, and 1.5 big down the line.

If he were in this year's draft he'd be a top 3 pick (hence why the Sixers want a pick within that 3-6 range). I think that's a fair assessment as to what we should expect in a trade for him.

Yeah I really dont think the 76ers are as desperate to get a guard in this draft as some seem to think especially with next years plethora of PGs in the draft and the chance to have 2 top 10 picks with the Kings swap and the Lakers top 3 protected pick.

He is a top 5 back to the basket big man when it comes to post moves in the NBA at age 20 and has 3 years left on his rookie contract I think that is pretty damn valuable, the media seems to be pushing that since he doesnt fit he doesnt have as much value. I think there will be plenty of teams out there that think they can improve his rebounding and defense deficiencies to the point were he is a easy 20/10 guy who isnt a huge liability on the glass and defense, but I think that the Suns and the Celtics have the best possible assets if I were to trade him for a top 5 pick in this draft and I completely agree 100% Okafor would be a top 3 prospect and you could easily argue could be ahead of Brandon Ingram depending on the team needs.

Green_Monster
05-30-2016, 11:20 AM
So you work for the Celtics and are on the calls regarding trades...congradulations, that is an awesome job you have....because if that isn't your job than you are ignorant, elitist, and entitled, and your clearly not any of those things so congrats on the awesome job....if that isn't your job you are basing your opinion on what was actually reported...so hopefully you can Ainge's seat one day because you obviously are not some ingonant, entitled, elitist that is making there personal opinion that big, so good luck on your role in directly building the Celtics.

You're attacking me because I can read? That's funny. If you were able to read past headlines you'd know that Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald first came out with the rumor and everyone piggybacked off of his report. He never mentioned Smart.

I'll just leave it at that, because your post is a big, poorly written mess and it basically repeats the same thing three times. Have a nice day.

IndyRealist
05-30-2016, 11:21 AM
So you work for the Celtics and are on the calls regarding trades...congradulations, that is an awesome job you have....because if that isn't your job than you are ignorant, elitist, and entitled, and your clearly not any of those things so congrats on the awesome job....if that isn't your job you are basing your opinion on what was actually reported...so hopefully you can Ainge's seat one day because you obviously are not some ingonant, entitled, elitist that is making there personal opinion that big, so good luck on your role in directly building the Celtics.

Everything that guy said was perfectly reasonable. The link provided says:

According to the Boston Herald, the Celtics aggressively tried to acquire Okafor prior to last month’s February 18 trade deadline. And though Boston couldn’t strike a deal at the time, it is expected that they once again go after the former Duke product this forthcoming offseason.

Remember, the Celtics will have Brooklyn Nets’ lottery pick – which is projected to fall inside the top 5. According to a source close to GM Danny Ainge, the team will be willing to give up Smart and Brooklyn’s pick if Sixers were ready to deal Okafor.

The SOURCE of the article says:

In an interview with WBZ NewsRadio’s Adam Kaufman on Friday, Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge revealed Boston came “very close” to making a blockbuster deal that would have involved the team moving the Brooklyn Nets’ 2016 first-round pick.....

....Yet the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett reported Friday night, citing a league source, that Ainge’s target was none other than Philadelphia 76ers rookie Jahlil Okafor.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2016/02/report-sixers-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-in-mystery-trade/


Nowhere does the source article mention Marcus Smart.

BoSox47
05-30-2016, 11:24 AM
It would probably be 3 and Smart or Bradley, something like that...I want 4 and 13 from Phoenix if we can do that

Bradley or smart would not be going over in the deal unless Dario Saric is sent to us. I could see something more along the lines of the 3rd and Terry Rozier who actually played well, especially defensively in the limited time he got.

BoSox47
05-30-2016, 11:25 AM
Remember, the Celtics will have Brooklyn Nets’ lottery pick – which is projected to fall inside the top 5. According to a source close to GM Danny Ainge, the team will be willing to give up Smart and Brooklyn’s pick if Sixers were ready to deal Okafor.

I hope smart is not sent over as well, but i guess it shows how much faith they have in the development of Terry Rozier.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 11:50 AM
Yeah I really dont think the 76ers are as desperate to get a guard in this draft as some seem to think especially with next years plethora of PGs in the draft and the chance to have 2 top 10 picks with the Kings swap and the Lakers top 3 protected pick.

He is a top 5 back to the basket big man when it comes to post moves in the NBA at age 20 and has 3 years left on his rookie contract I think that is pretty damn valuable, the media seems to be pushing that since he doesnt fit he doesnt have as much value. I think there will be plenty of teams out there that think they can improve his rebounding and defense deficiencies to the point were he is a easy 20/10 guy who isnt a huge liability on the glass and defense, but I think that the Suns and the Celtics have the best possible assets if I were to trade him for a top 5 pick in this draft and I completely agree 100% Okafor would be a top 3 prospect and you could easily argue could be ahead of Brandon Ingram depending on the team needs.

I don't think anyone denies he's worth a top 5 pick or even that he would be #3. There are just some troublin glimitations ot his game that's it's amatter of how big is the gap between him and the prospects this year...

He has AMAZING post moves. True throwback player in that area. He also seems like he can drive a little bit from a face up position to diversify his scoring a bit. However, on offense, he doesn't shoot very well. He's not a creative inside passer the way some big men are. What these things add up to is that he's a better individual offensive player than he is a team player right now. His individual offensive skills are polished, but he has a lot of development left to allow those offensive skills to contribute to winning team ball rather than just good individual stats. And I'm not saying it's a selfish attitude thing. It's on court logistics of the things he does well vs. the things he doesn't. In these areas there seems to be good reason for hope though.

But there are other issues. He doesn't play very good defense. In the post or especially stepping out and defending the PnR. That's arguable the most important thing for a center in today's game. Rebounding wise he averaged 7 a game in 30 minutes which per 36 is 8.4. That's not very good for a center.

Now I want to be clear, he's a very nice piece. I'd easily take him #3 in this draft. But you guys aren't just asking for #3, you're asking for #3 plus another piece(s). That to me is the disconnect. How much better is than #3? And not just individually, but in terms of how their skills fit within a winning team. I have a lot of questions with Okafor on that.

C-ross12
05-30-2016, 12:10 PM
If I were the 76ers and the Celtics offered me the 3 for Okafor straight up I'd jump all over it. At 3 you have for choice of any player not named Ingram of Simmons. You could break up your log jam at center and add a significant piece. At 3 you could add Hield, Dunn, Murray, Brown.. any of them you wanted. I can see why 76ers fans think it would be wise to hold out for more, but at the end of the day if you hold onto Okafor because you wanted Bradley or Smart added, your doing yourself and your franchise a disservice.

SeoulBeatz
05-30-2016, 12:20 PM
If I were the 76ers and the Celtics offered me the 3 for Okafor straight up I'd jump all over it. At 3 you have for choice of any player not named Ingram of Simmons. You could break up your log jam at center and add a significant piece. At 3 you could add Hield, Dunn, Murray, Brown.. any of them you wanted. I can see why 76ers fans think it would be wise to hold out for more, but at the end of the day if you hold onto Okafor because you wanted Bradley or Smart added, your doing yourself and your franchise a disservice.

Yeah, if Smart or Bradley were added to the deal I would see is as a slight win for the Sixers, if it's #3 for Oak straight up than Celtics win the deal because Oak is a better prospect than anyone from #3 onward.

SeoulBeatz
05-30-2016, 12:26 PM
I don't think anyone denies he's worth a top 5 pick or even that he would be #3. There are just some troublin glimitations ot his game that's it's amatter of how big is the gap between him and the prospects this year...

He has AMAZING post moves. True throwback player in that area. He also seems like he can drive a little bit from a face up position to diversify his scoring a bit. However, on offense, he doesn't shoot very well. He's not a creative inside passer the way some big men are. What these things add up to is that he's a better individual offensive player than he is a team player right now. His individual offensive skills are polished, but he has a lot of development left to allow those offensive skills to contribute to winning team ball rather than just good individual stats. And I'm not saying it's a selfish attitude thing. It's on court logistics of the things he does well vs. the things he doesn't. In these areas there seems to be good reason for hope though.

But there are other issues. He doesn't play very good defense. In the post or especially stepping out and defending the PnR. That's arguable the most important thing for a center in today's game. Rebounding wise he averaged 7 a game in 30 minutes which per 36 is 8.4. That's not very good for a center.

Now I want to be clear, he's a very nice piece. I'd easily take him #3 in this draft. But you guys aren't just asking for #3, you're asking for #3 plus another piece(s). That to me is the disconnect. How much better is than #3? And not just individually, but in terms of how their skills fit within a winning team. I have a lot of questions with Okafor on that.

That's a sound analysis. He has the potential to be a solid passer out of the post. He dropped some really nice dimes throughout the season but he def struggles while being double teamed. That struggle was compounded considering the Sixers have absolutely no other scorers on the roster.

This is one of the reasons why I'm also keen on keeping him because I'm curious to see how he would fare with some floor spacing around him. Teams HAVE to double team him in the post and that leads to plenty of open looks for other players. That's why I think he would be a great fit on the Celts considering you have a bevy of guards who would hopefully help the floor spacing.

Scoots
05-30-2016, 12:27 PM
I think a team may overpay for him, but the concerns about his game got worse last year and he added some character concerns and his game doesn't fit where the game is going. Add to that the knowledge that there are few teams that he would fit and that the 76ers really want/need to move him (and this particular aspect should not be understated ... if the team that drafted him doesn't want him what do they know that others have not seen?) and you end up with a small market for damaged goods. Doesn't sound likely to bring back some of the booty I've seen expected here ... top 5 pick, a starter, and another 1st round pick was one I saw.

I LIKE Okafor as a player, but his value is, I think, lower than 76ers fans want it to be.

warfelg
05-30-2016, 12:36 PM
Okafor has a huge separation in his cl value.

Of the 30 NBA teams I would say that 10 teams want him, can build around him, and would give up a lot to get him. 10 teams are indifferent and would like him but don't need to go out of their way for him. And 10 teams don't want his and wouldn't give up much for him. There's no other player in the NBA like that.

C-ross12
05-30-2016, 12:39 PM
Okafor has a huge separation in his cl value.

Of the 30 NBA teams I would say that 10 teams want him, can build around him, and would give up a lot to get him. 10 teams are indifferent and would like him but don't need to go out of their way for him. And 10 teams don't want his and wouldn't give up much for him. There's no other player in the NBA like that.

In your opinion what would 2 or 3 teams from each category be?

warfelg
05-30-2016, 12:47 PM
In your opinion what would 2 or 3 teams from each category be?

Well take the contenders. Out as wanting him. Bad teams as take or leave need the right deal. Take the middle ground teams, you Celtics/Blazers range teams. They would want him.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 01:00 PM
I think a team may overpay for him, but the concerns about his game got worse last year and he added some character concerns and his game doesn't fit where the game is going. Add to that the knowledge that there are few teams that he would fit and that the 76ers really want/need to move him (and this particular aspect should not be understated ... if the team that drafted him doesn't want him what do they know that others have not seen?) and you end up with a small market for damaged goods. Doesn't sound likely to bring back some of the booty I've seen expected here ... top 5 pick, a starter, and another 1st round pick was one I saw.

I LIKE Okafor as a player, but his value is, I think, lower than 76ers fans want it to be.

I don't think the 76ers desire to trade him gives teams the kind of concerns you mention. He's not "damaged good." He got into a fight outside a bar. That's obviously not good but it's not a huge disaster honestly. It's clear that they're moving him because of fit. I don't think it's deeper than that. Teams know that.

However, I do think that 76ers needing to move him does play in to some degree. It's best described I think by looking at this post:


Yeah, if Smart or Bradley were added to the deal I would see is as a slight win for the Sixers, if it's #3 for Oak straight up than Celtics win the deal because Oak is a better prospect than anyone from #3 onward.

First, I think this is spot on. #3 for Okafor favors the Celtics because he's better than #3 but the gap isn't so big that it equals Smart/Bradley. Where I think PHI's need to move Okafor comes in is that ultimately if it came down to it, they'd take #3 straight up if nothing better is being offered because even if they aren't getting full value, if the alternative is to just hold onto him than they're worse off a team. In most cases a team will just hold a guy unless they get full value but in this case PHI ultimately has to move him for something because if they keep all the bigs they're just going to play poorly and lower their value. That doesn't mean you get him for peanuts of course - everything I'm saying is within a reasonable scale of trade offers. It doesn't mean that they're going to move him for #20 because realistically there's no way that's the best offer.

Where I think the Celtics might have some leverage is that I think the player PHI wants is Murray and that's who I also believe BOS takes if they hold the pick. We desperately need outside shooting and Murray brings that. Another ball handler would be important since he'd be taking Evan Turner's minutes and he was really our secondary ball handler. Murray fits that. The one drawback is that we're kind of guard heavy so Smart would have to defend SFs. But if we're being honest, I think Smart defending SFs is less of a strain on your defense than Okafor defending Cs.

Murray can play PG, especially if you're going to have a guy like Simmons who handles the ball from the PF spot. Really, he's the perfect candidate to play point with a guy like that IMO for PHI. And I think that unless they get BOS's #3 pick, they can't get their guy.

Forever35
05-30-2016, 02:14 PM
I don't think the 76ers desire to trade him gives teams the kind of concerns you mention. He's not "damaged good." He got into a fight outside a bar. That's obviously not good but it's not a huge disaster honestly. It's clear that they're moving him because of fit. I don't think it's deeper than that. Teams know that.

However, I do think that 76ers needing to move him does play in to some degree. It's best described I think by looking at this post:



First, I think this is spot on. #3 for Okafor favors the Celtics because he's better than #3 but the gap isn't so big that it equals Smart/Bradley. Where I think PHI's need to move Okafor comes in is that ultimately if it came down to it, they'd take #3 straight up if nothing better is being offered because even if they aren't getting full value, if the alternative is to just hold onto him than they're worse off a team. In most cases a team will just hold a guy unless they get full value but in this case PHI ultimately has to move him for something because if they keep all the bigs they're just going to play poorly and lower their value. That doesn't mean you get him for peanuts of course - everything I'm saying is within a reasonable scale of trade offers. It doesn't mean that they're going to move him for #20 because realistically there's no way that's the best offer.

Where I think the Celtics might have some leverage is that I think the player PHI wants is Murray and that's who I also believe BOS takes if they hold the pick. We desperately need outside shooting and Murray brings that. Another ball handler would be important since he'd be taking Evan Turner's minutes and he was really our secondary ball handler. Murray fits that. The one drawback is that we're kind of guard heavy so Smart would have to defend SFs. But if we're being honest, I think Smart defending SFs is less of a strain on your defense than Okafor defending Cs.

Murray can play PG, especially if you're going to have a guy like Simmons who handles the ball from the PF spot. Really, he's the perfect candidate to play point with a guy like that IMO for PHI. And I think that unless they get BOS's #3 pick, they can't get their guy.

The C's do not have to make a move for Okafor or Noel... The rumors started that Philly was dangling Okafor first and now they are possibly dangling Noel... So it's obvious Philly wants to move on from at least one of those guys...

I've said it before that the C's hold leverage with the 3rd pick... There are players that teams want in this draft and at 3 all those players are possible... Where as if 1 and 2 are not Simmons and Ingram shock will be in full effect... The GM that other teams wish didn't have that 3rd pick is Danny Ainge... He's gonna squeeze whatever he can out of 3 or draft somebody... It's a win win for Boston...

I definitely don't think guys like Butler, George, Cousins or Hayward will even be considered in any trade by their teams for the 3rd spot, but Okafor or Noel...??? Without a doubt Philly has to consider it... Especially Noel...

Aust
05-30-2016, 02:15 PM
So... are there any articles or tweets from NBA reporters that mention, with sources, that Smart was involved in the offer or was only the pick mentioned?

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 02:42 PM
Personally I think the BRK is more valuable now than it was then. BRK had a late "surge" into the top 3. If I recall correctly they were like 5 or 6 at the deadline (maybe 4 behind PHX, not sure). So while the pick had a chance to be #1 or #2, it was remote. Even to be as high as it is now was a gamble. The upside of the pick being #1 or #2 is gone now but some of the upside that it had was realized (because they weren't 3rd worst at the time) and all of the downside was avoided. PHI also wasn't guaranteed a top two pick. Imagine how bad PHI would have looked if their ended up #3 so they didn't have Simmons to clear front court room for and the BRK pick ended up #8.

The pick presented upside to PHI at the time but the risk of it was far more prevelent than the upside. So netted out, I think the pick holds more value on its own now than it did then because of the certainty of knowing you won't get ****ed out of it.

Scoots
05-30-2016, 04:24 PM
Oak was the 2nd pick in the draft and his stock didn't go up from then. I think the Celtics lose with #3 straight up for Oak let alone adding a current starter and another 1st round pick.

The off-the-court thing isn't that big a deal, but it's a lot bigger than not having happened. Oak sort of proved his skeptics right with what he does and doesn't do well while last year they still had a lot of questions having not seen him against NBA talent in an NBA offense.

He's good, and the 76ers will get better value that he's worth to them to trade him ... but #3, a starter and another first is way more than I think they'll get.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 04:37 PM
The C's do not have to make a move for Okafor or Noel... The rumors started that Philly was dangling Okafor first and now they are possibly dangling Noel... So it's obvious Philly wants to move on from at least one of those guys...

I've said it before that the C's hold leverage with the 3rd pick... There are players that teams want in this draft and at 3 all those players are possible... Where as if 1 and 2 are not Simmons and Ingram shock will be in full effect... The GM that other teams wish didn't have that 3rd pick is Danny Ainge... He's gonna squeeze whatever he can out of 3 or draft somebody... It's a win win for Boston...

I definitely don't think guys like Butler, George, Cousins or Hayward will even be considered in any trade by their teams for the 3rd spot, but Okafor or Noel...??? Without a doubt Philly has to consider it... Especially Noel...

I love, love, LOVE Noel. :drool: at a defense with him, Bradley, Smart and Crowder all on it. We'd need offense/shooting around them of course but oh man does that defense have the potential to be suffocating. You have guys who can lock down a lot of different type of scorers.

I'd give up #3 for him and not even think twice about it.

Scoots
05-30-2016, 04:58 PM
I love, love, LOVE Noel. :drool: at a defense with him, Bradley, Smart and Crowder all on it. We'd need offense/shooting around them of course but oh man does that defense have the potential to be suffocating. You have guys who can lock down a lot of different type of scorers.

I'd give up #3 for him and not even think twice about it.

A team playing Noel, Bradley, Smart and Crowder with shooting around them ... how is 1 player "around" 4 players in basketball or were you planning to play 6 or 7 players at a time, because that would be a potent combination if you could get the refs to ignore it. :)

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 05:12 PM
A team playing Noel, Bradley, Smart and Crowder with shooting around them ... how is 1 player "around" 4 players in basketball or were you planning to play 6 or 7 players at a time, because that would be a potent combination if you could get the refs to ignore it. :)

Well I didn't mean they'd all be playing together at once for huge minutes. Bradley is on ok shooter and Crowder was one last year until he hurt his ankle and turned to hot garbage at everything for the rest of the year. So if you had a great stretch 4 out there I think you could play that lineup a little bit but it wouldn't be a go-to thing.

I mean it in the sense that they can always have great defenders on the floor. IT is going to start at PG which pushes Smart to the bench. I'd like to get a stretch 4 like Marvin Williams. He plays good, versatile defense and can shoot the 3 at the PF spot. BOS can sign him to a bloated one year deal like they did Amir Johnson. Grossly overpay salary wise to the point he accepts one year. That way we can keep our long-term flexibility.

Maybe splurge on a guy like Harrison Barnes to push Crowder to the bench. I don't think GS would match a max deal. It's an overpay but BOS would still have long-term cap space so they can swing it. Another guy who can defend and shoot.

IT/Smart
Bradley/Smart
Barnes/Crowder
Williams/Barnes
Noel/Olynyk

I'd roll with a squad like that and a lot of long-term flexibility (money, BRK picks having potential to be high). Everyone but IT and Olynyk are quality defenders and they at least can play within a team construct. Smart and Noel can't shoot but everyone else out of the 8 man rotation is at least average. RJ Hunter and Jonas Jerebko would probably play like 10 minutes each who both add shooting too. It's not championship caliber or anything but it's a pretty solid squad that compliments each other and has long-term flexibility.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 05:38 PM
Just to add to my last post this is what I would do for the rotation...

PG: IT (32 minutes), Smart (16 minutes)
SG: Bradley (27 minutes), Hunter (10 minutes), Smart (9 minutes)
SF: Barnes (21 minutes), Crowder (27 minutes)
PF: Williams (27 minutes), Barnes (11 minutes), Jerebko (10 minutes)
C: Noel (28 minutes), Olynyk (20 minutes)

BoSox47
05-30-2016, 05:58 PM
Oak was the 2nd pick in the draft and his stock didn't go up from then. I think the Celtics lose with #3 straight up for Oak let alone adding a current starter and another 1st round pick.

The off-the-court thing isn't that big a deal, but it's a lot bigger than not having happened. Oak sort of proved his skeptics right with what he does and doesn't do well while last year they still had a lot of questions having not seen him against NBA talent in an NBA offense.

He's good, and the 76ers will get better value that he's worth to them to trade him ... but #3, a starter and another first is way more than I think they'll get.

He was the number 3 pick of the draft. If he was in the draft this year he would be the number 3 pick in the draft.

Forever35
05-30-2016, 06:03 PM
Maybe splurge on a guy like Harrison Barnes to push Crowder to the bench.

I am definitely in the minority, but Jae Crowder is good enough to continue to be the starting 3 on the Celtics... I'm gonna say he finally had his chance to prove himself in the league and he did it with flying colors...

I think Crowder has a lot more room left to improve... I'm gonna say he's gonna be close to a 20ppg player this season...


This season is gonna show what a steal of a contract the C's have with Crowder...

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jae-crowder-1.html

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 06:12 PM
I am definitely in the minority, but Jae Crowder is good enough to continue to be the starting 3 on the Celtics... I'm gonna say he finally had his chance to prove himself in the league and he did it with flying colors...

I think Crowder has a lot more room left to improve... I'm gonna say he's gonna be close to a 20ppg player this season...


This season is gonna show what a steal of a contract the C's have with Crowder...

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jae-crowder-1.html

Crowder is inept at creating his own shot. I don't see that potential at all. I don't think his college numbers hold any weight compared to the player he's been in the NBA over the last few seasons. And even the player he is at his contract is a steal no doubt but I think you're psyching yourself up hoping he's more. Hopefully you're right though.

And even if he does emerge into that kind of player, he's not playing all 48 minutes of the game. In the rotation I made up above I still had him playing 27 minutes. If he takes a step forward then maybe you bump that up to 32/33. That still doesn't materially change things. Barnes is a combo forward so he plays SF when Crowder is out of the game and PF with him for the rest of his minutes. It's not about starter/bench it's about minutes. I shifted Crowder to the bench but I only dropped him down a few minutes per game.

I'm just not sure that Barnes is worth splurging on. Torn over it.

Stunner
05-30-2016, 06:24 PM
He was the number 3 pick of the draft. If he was in the draft this year he would be the number 3 pick in the draft.

True dat

5ass
05-30-2016, 07:45 PM
Well I didn't mean they'd all be playing together at once for huge minutes. Bradley is on ok shooter and Crowder was one last year until he hurt his ankle and turned to hot garbage at everything for the rest of the year. So if you had a great stretch 4 out there I think you could play that lineup a little bit but it wouldn't be a go-to thing.

I mean it in the sense that they can always have great defenders on the floor. IT is going to start at PG which pushes Smart to the bench. I'd like to get a stretch 4 like Marvin Williams. He plays good, versatile defense and can shoot the 3 at the PF spot. BOS can sign him to a bloated one year deal like they did Amir Johnson. Grossly overpay salary wise to the point he accepts one year. That way we can keep our long-term flexibility.

Maybe splurge on a guy like Harrison Barnes to push Crowder to the bench. I don't think GS would match a max deal. It's an overpay but BOS would still have long-term cap space so they can swing it. Another guy who can defend and shoot.

IT/Smart
Bradley/Smart
Barnes/Crowder
Williams/Barnes
Noel/Olynyk

I'd roll with a squad like that and a lot of long-term flexibility (money, BRK picks having potential to be high). Everyone but IT and Olynyk are quality defenders and they at least can play within a team construct. Smart and Noel can't shoot but everyone else out of the 8 man rotation is at least average. RJ Hunter and Jonas Jerebko would probably play like 10 minutes each who both add shooting too. It's not championship caliber or anything but it's a pretty solid squad that compliments each other and has long-term flexibility.
I think the Celtics are better off trading for Okafor if they're giving up the 3rd pick. He still has more potential than Noel, and if you put him in a healthier environment with defenders like the Celtics have he'll look much better on that end. Getting Noel and signing Barnes and Williams then resigning Noel next year will probably eliminate any cap space you have left and leave you with less chances at acquiring/developing a star. No offense (pun intended), but I dont see a high ceiling for this team. If I'm ainge I trade for Okafor and do all I can to acquire Ibaka. He's a FA next year, but I think you can trade Bradley for Ibaka this offseason. OKC's front court is getting expensive I doubt they'll be able to pay Ibaka, Kanter, Adams, Westbrook, and Durant.

Thomas
Crowder/Smart
Barnes
Ibaka
Okafor

Thomas and Okafor can create offense. The rest can play defense and shoot.

Scoots
05-30-2016, 09:13 PM
He was the number 3 pick of the draft. If he was in the draft this year he would be the number 3 pick in the draft.

I'm not so sure. But if he was the #3 pick this year then he's not worth the #3 and a starter and another 1st round pick.

hugepatsfan
05-30-2016, 11:55 PM
I think the Celtics are better off trading for Okafor if they're giving up the 3rd pick. He still has more potential than Noel, and if you put him in a healthier environment with defenders like the Celtics have he'll look much better on that end. Getting Noel and signing Barnes and Williams then resigning Noel next year will probably eliminate any cap space you have left and leave you with less chances at acquiring/developing a star. No offense (pun intended), but I dont see a high ceiling for this team. If I'm ainge I trade for Okafor and do all I can to acquire Ibaka. He's a FA next year, but I think you can trade Bradley for Ibaka this offseason. OKC's front court is getting expensive I doubt they'll be able to pay Ibaka, Kanter, Adams, Westbrook, and Durant.

Thomas
Crowder/Smart
Barnes
Ibaka
Okafor

Thomas and Okafor can create offense. The rest can play defense and shoot.

Ibaka has been suggested in our forum and I'm against it because like you said, he's a FA after the year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2016/

You can see in that link that Celtics have $51,846,266 of active contracts. That includes $12,874,636 of non-guaranteed contracts to Amir Johnson and John Holland that I would decline. That brings total contracts to $38,971,630. I'm letting Turner, Sullinger, Zeller go so dance out the cap holds.

The cap is supposed to be $92M so that gives $53,028,370 of cap space. Noel's salary would be $4,384,490 which brings cap space down to $48,643,880.

http://basketball.******.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2017

According to that site the cap holds for #16 and #23 (the first rounders we'd have left if dealing #3 for Noel) would total $2,725,400. That brings cap space down to $45,918,480.

Barnes' max deal is 25% of the cap or $23M. That brings cap space down to $22,918,480. I don't want to commit long-term money to any other FAs to keep long-term flexibility open. So I would offer Williams a bloated one year deal for like all the cap space left. He brings good shooting and defense and if you get him for one year it leaves options open down the road.

Looking ahead to next offseasons...

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

Active contracts - James Young (I'd decline his option) + Kelly Olynyk's cap hold + Noel's cap hold (change team's on that site) + year 2 salaries for #16/23 from the link above + cap hold of #1 pick in 2017 (we have right to swap w/ BRK and #1 gives most conservative estimate of cap space - also from link above) = $51,792,285.

Barnes max would have 4.5% raises so his year 2 salary would be $24.035M.

The projected cap is expected to be $107M from what I've read next offseason. So BOS would have $31,172,715 of cap space to use and then go over the cap to re-sign Noel and/or Olynyk. Plenty of money left to pursue FAs. Ideal target would be Hayward.

So I disagree with your idea that the roster I had eliminates our cap space. That being said, the plan works just as well with Okafor and you're right about the offensive ability being greater. I just like Noel's defense and feel that while Okafor makes the team bettering the short-term, when you become a real contender the lack of front court defense will cripple you. I think you're better off long-term with Noel and then trying to add the scoring at the wing and with a long-term replacement for Williams at the PF spot.

5ass
06-01-2016, 06:22 PM
Ibaka has been suggested in our forum and I'm against it because like you said, he's a FA after the year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2016/

You can see in that link that Celtics have $51,846,266 of active contracts. That includes $12,874,636 of non-guaranteed contracts to Amir Johnson and John Holland that I would decline. That brings total contracts to $38,971,630. I'm letting Turner, Sullinger, Zeller go so dance out the cap holds.

The cap is supposed to be $92M so that gives $53,028,370 of cap space. Noel's salary would be $4,384,490 which brings cap space down to $48,643,880.

http://basketball.******.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2017

According to that site the cap holds for #16 and #23 (the first rounders we'd have left if dealing #3 for Noel) would total $2,725,400. That brings cap space down to $45,918,480.

Barnes' max deal is 25% of the cap or $23M. That brings cap space down to $22,918,480. I don't want to commit long-term money to any other FAs to keep long-term flexibility open. So I would offer Williams a bloated one year deal for like all the cap space left. He brings good shooting and defense and if you get him for one year it leaves options open down the road.

Looking ahead to next offseasons...

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

Active contracts - James Young (I'd decline his option) + Kelly Olynyk's cap hold + Noel's cap hold (change team's on that site) + year 2 salaries for #16/23 from the link above + cap hold of #1 pick in 2017 (we have right to swap w/ BRK and #1 gives most conservative estimate of cap space - also from link above) = $51,792,285.

Barnes max would have 4.5% raises so his year 2 salary would be $24.035M.

The projected cap is expected to be $107M from what I've read next offseason. So BOS would have $31,172,715 of cap space to use and then go over the cap to re-sign Noel and/or Olynyk. Plenty of money left to pursue FAs. Ideal target would be Hayward.

So I disagree with your idea that the roster I had eliminates our cap space. That being said, the plan works just as well with Okafor and you're right about the offensive ability being greater. I just like Noel's defense and feel that while Okafor makes the team bettering the short-term, when you become a real contender the lack of front court defense will cripple you. I think you're better off long-term with Noel and then trying to add the scoring at the wing and with a long-term replacement for Williams at the PF spot.
Its not just about next year though. Okafor is locked into a rookie contract for 2 more years. That's two more years of trying to land a star through FA. Also Okafor has more upside than Noel, and personally I feel like they should at least get one player who has the upside to be great. They should get as many as possible IMO because their players don't really have a lot of upside right now. I love Noel, but if I'm looking to build around one of them i'll take Okafor all day. There are way more players that can do what Noel does than what okafor can do.
Ainge has proven he can get good players out of nothing Crowder, Bradley, Thomas didn't have great value when they were acquired. Its the potential great players you should be moving/using assets for.

eDush
06-02-2016, 07:46 AM
I am definitely in the minority, but Jae Crowder is good enough to continue to be the starting 3 on the Celtics... I'm gonna say he finally had his chance to prove himself in the league and he did it with flying colors...

I think Crowder has a lot more room left to improve... I'm gonna say he's gonna be close to a 20ppg player this season...


This season is gonna show what a steal of a contract the C's have with Crowder...

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jae-crowder-1.html

Crowder is inept at creating his own shot. I don't see that potential at all. I don't think his college numbers hold any weight compared to the player he's been in the NBA over the last few seasons. And even the player he is at his contract is a steal no doubt but I think you're psyching yourself up hoping he's more. Hopefully you're right though.

And even if he does emerge into that kind of player, he's not playing all 48 minutes of the game. In the rotation I made up above I still had him playing 27 minutes. If he takes a step forward then maybe you bump that up to 32/33. That still doesn't materially change things. Barnes is a combo forward so he plays SF when Crowder is out of the game and PF with him for the rest of his minutes. It's not about starter/bench it's about minutes. I shifted Crowder to the bench but I only dropped him down a few minutes per game.

I'm just not sure that Barnes is worth splurging on. Torn over it.
I read where people think Durant will replace him in Boston which I can't imagine he would. They run a team defense equal ball sharing type of mentality in Boston where Durant would disrupt that. I also like Chowder a lot and would love to see him as our starting 3 over Barnes or Durant. And who wants to play for Danny boy anyways...he is the last GM i would want to play for with his constant misdirection using the media bs.
:mad:

TheDish87
06-02-2016, 09:19 AM
wait, you would rather have Crowder over KD? did i read that right?

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 09:59 AM
Its not just about next year though. Okafor is locked into a rookie contract for 2 more years. That's two more years of trying to land a star through FA. Also Okafor has more upside than Noel, and personally I feel like they should at least get one player who has the upside to be great. They should get as many as possible IMO because their players don't really have a lot of upside right now. I love Noel, but if I'm looking to build around one of them i'll take Okafor all day. There are way more players that can do what Noel does than what okafor can do.
Ainge has proven he can get good players out of nothing Crowder, Bradley, Thomas didn't have great value when they were acquired. Its the potential great players you should be moving/using assets for.

Extremely valid points. It's not so much the philosophy of what you're saying I disagree with, it's just Okafor specifically. It's kind of the same concerns you have with Vucevic. It's just hard to build an elite defense around a C that can't defend. That's not a position where I think it's a great idea to sacrifice defense. I'm not sure Okafor is a "build around" player. I see But his skills are definitely tempting. You're right about the extra cap space. Or not so much "extra" as it is giving yourself another year to spend it as you pointed out.

Ultimately I would do the trade either way. I just like Noel more because while I think Okafor is a better talent, I don't know that he fits on a championship team. The poor defense might be too tough to overcome to the point that you're better off finding the scoring ability elsewhere. I'd still do it though because I think he's more valuable than #3, but that's the reasoning for why I don't want to expand the deal much further than a one for one swap (i.e. no Smart/Bradley).

hugepatsfan
06-02-2016, 10:02 AM
I read where people think Durant will replace him in Boston which I can't imagine he would. They run a team defense equal ball sharing type of mentality in Boston where Durant would disrupt that. I also like Chowder a lot and would love to see him as our starting 3 over Barnes or Durant. And who wants to play for Danny boy anyways...he is the last GM i would want to play for with his constant misdirection using the media bs.
:mad:

Durant would replace Crowder in the starting lineup but he wouldn't be taking much more than a couple minutes per game from him. Durant would replace Evan Turner's minutes and then take a couple per game from guys like Crowder/Smart/Bradley. Crowder would still be a huge part of the rotation, and his offensive responsibilities would be more appropriate for his skill level.

nycericanguy
06-02-2016, 10:19 AM
I'm not so sure. But if he was the #3 pick this year then he's not worth the #3 and a starter and another 1st round pick.

Plus Okafor has lost 1 year of a his cheap rookie deal already. Not to mention the injury and off court antics.

valade16
06-02-2016, 01:53 PM
Well take the contenders. Out as wanting him. Bad teams as take or leave need the right deal. Take the middle ground teams, you Celtics/Blazers range teams. They would want him.

I've heard the rumor of a McCollum for Okafor swap. Not in love with the move myself for the Blazers but I think it would be intriguing.