PDA

View Full Version : Is there any Center in the NBA that could lead a team to a title?



beasted86
05-09-2016, 08:44 PM
I look at the current crop of Centers and this looks like the weakest position in the NBA. None of them could be the best player on a championship team.

Cousins has serious attitude and leadership issues which excludes him from "leading" a team anywhere. The rest of the guys just seem pretty mediocre, and/or have huge holes in their skill-sets.

TrueFan420
05-09-2016, 10:16 PM
AD might be able to but that team is built so poorly around him

Scoots
05-09-2016, 10:16 PM
Draymond Green

IBleedPurple
05-10-2016, 12:29 AM
Draymond GreenIs he worth 14 billion too? :rolleyes:

Scoots
05-10-2016, 12:56 AM
Is he worth 14 billion too? :rolleyes:

I don't get it.

Wade n Fade
05-10-2016, 01:01 AM
Cousins and Drummond could, but both have their flaws. Cousins' flaw is his childishness. Drummond's issues are the lack of a mid range jump shot and FT shooting. Davis has to be the closest thing to a bonafide leader, considering if he can come back healthy and play at an all-star level again.

zn23
05-10-2016, 01:07 AM
KAT is pretty great and has the most potential to carry a team. They just need to give him better role players. I'd say he could in about 4-5 years.

Aust
05-10-2016, 01:08 AM
Maybe KAT someday

More-Than-Most
05-10-2016, 01:16 AM
Yes.. Embiid in 2 years.... Heard it here first.


Also LEBRON JAMES has :shrug:

numba1CHANGsta
05-10-2016, 01:39 AM
Centers are extinct

mrblisterdundee
05-10-2016, 01:49 AM
1. Anthony Davis: He'd be great in the right lineup as a small-ball center. He's also got more offensive game than most of the traditional centers.
2. Andre Drummond: A beast who anchors one of the better defenses in the NBA. Don't ask him to shoot.
3. DeMarcus Cousins: He'd be first on this list if he'd grow up and play better defense.
4. Karl Anthony-Towns: Tim Duncan 2.0, but let's give him a couple seasons to get there.

prodigy
05-10-2016, 05:27 AM
Draymond Green

unless he can avg 25+ every night no. plus he's not a center

PhillyFaninLA
05-10-2016, 06:19 AM
Cousins and Drummond could, but both have their flaws. Cousins' flaw is his childishness. Drummond's issues are the lack of a mid range jump shot and FT shooting. Davis has to be the closest thing to a bonafide leader, considering if he can come back healthy and play at an all-star level again.

I don't think Cousins could at this time for exactly what you said. You need to be a leader and not a cancer that Cousins is. Drummond's issues you mention are nothing that can stop a center from leading to a team, but all in all he isn't there yet.

Davis certainly could as could KAT.

Lets keep in mind that you don't win without a team and the right situation and coach around you.

Depending on Okafor matures and develops he may have a shot and being enough of an offensive game changer to be that guy, but he isn't nearly there.

I'm hoping Embiid can be that guy, if he can be and stay healthy. Noel could be one of the elite game changing defenders but that need the guys around them to more than the other guys mentioned in this topic so its unlikely he could be.

da ThRONe
05-10-2016, 06:57 AM
Davis doesn't want to play center at this point in his career. He wants to be more Dirk than Hakeem.

I'd say Cousins and Drummond are the best bet of the two players that traditionally play the position. Embiiib is someone to watch for if he can indeed return health, but at this point Towns is ahead of him. So as people already pointed out that position could see a huge resurgence in the next 5 seasons.

rhymeratic
05-10-2016, 09:13 AM
Porzingis if you believe his natural position will be Center.

JasonJohnHorn
05-10-2016, 09:20 AM
Andrew Bogut.


Seriously... it depends on how you define 'lead'.

Ben Wallace 'led' the Pistons to one in 2004; he was the heart and soul of that team, but he was inconsequential on offense.

Drummond has the potential to do the same, but I don't see the same 'lead-by-example' qualities in him that I saw in Wallace.

The obvious answer is Anthony Davis. He's a 'power forward', but we all know he's a center.

KAT has the potential.

And yes, DMC could do it. He has the talent.

Mark Gasol also has the potential to do that. You just need the right pieces. The same can be said or Horford.



If you had a team, for example, with Gasol or Horford, and you had a guy like Conley at point, and Klay at SG, and a guy Korver at SF, or even a young Deng, then through in Ryan Anderson... that team, with the right coach, could win a title with Horford as or Gasol as the legit leaders on the floor, though the final MVP would likely go to Klay.

ewing
05-10-2016, 09:32 AM
Is Porzingis a center?

Scoots
05-10-2016, 09:40 AM
unless he can avg 25+ every night no. plus he's not a center

So to be a leader you have to score 25 a night? I guess the Spurs don't believe in "leaders".

I said Green as a bit of a joke, but there are people voting him all-nba as a center and he is the center on the Warriors best lineup, and he is the Warriors leader and they did win a title with him as their leader.

KAT is the best bet for a more traditional center to lead a team to a title.

DboneG
05-10-2016, 09:41 AM
No. Not one.

Dwhite Howard could maybe. He's up there in age. Look like teams don't want to let him be "The Man". If any center could do it, I would go with Howard.

Anthony Davis get injured too much. But, I think he could maybe do it with the right players around him.

Draymond Green is an awesome talent. But, you can exploit him down low. The reason teams don't do more of this to Green is because of GSW great help-out defense and Andrew Bogot. Draymond wouldn't last if he had to play the center position for 82 games. He'll be beat up.

Karl Anthony-Towns is young, so, no. Ask this question 2 years from now.

DeMarcus Cousins...no. His defense is not good enough to carry a team yet. There are times this guy just stand there and do nothing. He walk up the court at other times. I understand! He's saving his energy. But, basketball is 50% offense and 50% defense! Hello!! You can't carry a team resting on defense.

Andre Drummond is a beast! But, tha beast can't hit free throws! Sooo, how can you carry a team, when you are on the bench? So, no!

Tony_Starks
05-10-2016, 10:19 AM
Deandre Jordan...

...according to Mark Cuban

NYKalltheway
05-10-2016, 10:37 AM
Not unless the rules change back to normal.

YAALREADYKNO
05-10-2016, 11:26 AM
Hell to the naw

beasted86
05-10-2016, 12:11 PM
Andrew Bogut.


Seriously... it depends on how you define 'lead'.

Ben Wallace 'led' the Pistons to one in 2004; he was the heart and soul of that team, but he was inconsequential on offense.

Drummond has the potential to do the same, but I don't see the same 'lead-by-example' qualities in him that I saw in Wallace.

The obvious answer is Anthony Davis. He's a 'power forward', but we all know he's a center.

KAT has the potential.

And yes, DMC could do it. He has the talent.

Mark Gasol also has the potential to do that. You just need the right pieces. The same can be said or Horford.



If you had a team, for example, with Gasol or Horford, and you had a guy like Conley at point, and Klay at SG, and a guy Korver at SF, or even a young Deng, then through in Ryan Anderson... that team, with the right coach, could win a title with Horford as or Gasol as the legit leaders on the floor, though the final MVP would likely go to Klay.

Come on. We both know there's no way Bogut could be the best player on a championship team. It could be argued that Wallace was the best overall player or had the most impact for the Pistons. No such argument can ever be made with Bogut.

alkalinesolo
05-10-2016, 12:19 PM
Put Steph Curry at center and he could do it.

Scoots
05-10-2016, 01:37 PM
Come on. We both know there's no way Bogut could be the best player on a championship team. It could be argued that Wallace was the best overall player or had the most impact for the Pistons. No such argument can ever be made with Bogut.

The questions wasn't "best player" it was "leader".

beasted86
05-10-2016, 02:55 PM
The questions wasn't "best player" it was "leader".
You're telling me the thread starter? Read the first 2 sentences of this thread then get back to me.

Scoots
05-10-2016, 03:39 PM
You're telling me the thread starter? Read the first 2 sentences of this thread then get back to me.

The first sentence wasn't a question. The question is "Is there any Center in the NBA that could lead a team to a title?" :)

But no, Bogut isn't going to be the best player on a team. (It wasn't my point in the first place) :)

mngopher35
05-10-2016, 03:44 PM
While the center position is a bit down right now I think KAT/Porzingis/Okafor all have the potential to become this player (Towns I think is actually pretty close, just a couple years away). Embiid too if he ever becomes healthy. Outside of that you would need near perfect teams set up around like a Drummond/Cousins/Gasol to be title contenders.

beasted86
05-10-2016, 04:02 PM
The first sentence wasn't a question. The question is "Is there any Center in the NBA that could lead a team to a title?" :)

But no, Bogut isn't going to be the best player on a team. (It wasn't my point in the first place) :)

He's not going to lead (while not being the best player) a team to a championship either. So I don't get why you're making it a debate point.

I can't think of any combination of players you could put around Bogut where everyone would look at him as the leader and that group could win a championship. If you feel otherwise please name this roster.

IBleedPurple
05-10-2016, 04:17 PM
Is he worth 14 billion too? :rolleyes:

I don't get it.You claimed the WSJ said Curry was worth 14B to UA (which sounds ridiculous), wondering if your man Draymond is too.

R. Johnson#3
05-10-2016, 04:57 PM
KAT is pretty great and has the most potential to carry a team. They just need to give him better role players. I'd say he could in about 4-5 years.

It really depends on how he develops next season but I wouldn't rule out the possibility in 3 years. I think KAT has all the potential in the World. He will be legendary.

Scoots
05-10-2016, 05:07 PM
He's not going to lead (while not being the best player) a team to a championship either. So I don't get why you're making it a debate point.

I can't think of any combination of players you could put around Bogut where everyone would look at him as the leader and that group could win a championship. If you feel otherwise please name this roster.

Since it was JasonJohnHorn's point I guess we'll have to ask him.

Last year for the first third of the season or so Bogut was the leader on the Warriors. He got injured and they struggled to play with him not on the floor then they figured out Green could take a bigger role and make up for Bogut's absence. Even now, Curry is A leader, but Green is THE leader, and most wouldn't say Green is their best player.

beasted86
05-10-2016, 05:13 PM
Since it was JasonJohnHorn's point I guess we'll have to ask him.

Last year for the first third of the season or so Bogut was the leader on the Warriors. He got injured and they struggled to play with him not on the floor then they figured out Green could take a bigger role and make up for Bogut's absence. Even now, Curry is A leader, but Green is THE leader, and most wouldn't say Green is their best player.
I call complete BS on this bold point since you can't lead a team warming the bench in the 4th quarter. Bogut is not the leader of the Warriors nor is he the best player.

Anyway I'm done talking about this role player since he's way off topic and doesn't even belong in this thread. Only reason I picked his comment to respond is because it sounded so ridiculous.

Kyben36
05-10-2016, 05:21 PM
cOUINS IF HE EVER GOT HIS ATTITUDE RIGHT, KAT FOR SURE, AND MAYBE EMBID, BUT HEALTH

lol, please
05-10-2016, 05:46 PM
I look at the current crop of Centers and this looks like the weakest position in the NBA. None of them could be the best player on a championship team.

Cousins has serious attitude and leadership issues which excludes him from "leading" a team anywhere. The rest of the guys just seem pretty mediocre, and/or have huge holes in their skill-sets.

Festus "The Rock" Ezeli would take teams like the 76ers and Lakers to the finals.

/thread

alkalinesolo
05-10-2016, 05:59 PM
I call complete BS on this bold point since you can't lead a team warming the bench in the 4th quarter. Bogut is not the leader of the Warriors nor is he the best player.

Anyway I'm done talking about this role player since he's way off topic and doesn't even belong in this thread. Only reason I picked his comment to respond is because it sounded so ridiculous.


Well by that logic Steph Curry didn't lead the Warriors this year either since he was on the bench for the entire 4th quarter most of the time.

zn23
05-10-2016, 06:26 PM
It really depends on how he develops next season but I wouldn't rule out the possibility in 3 years. I think KAT has all the potential in the World. He will be legendary.

I think he's definitely capable in 3 years but he needs a better supporting cast. So the Wolves management has to do a better job getting players around him.

Scoots
05-10-2016, 06:48 PM
I call complete BS on this bold point since you can't lead a team warming the bench in the 4th quarter. Bogut is not the leader of the Warriors nor is he the best player.

Anyway I'm done talking about this role player since he's way off topic and doesn't even belong in this thread. Only reason I picked his comment to respond is because it sounded so ridiculous.

I don't know how to find the on/off numbers for games in the first third of last year to support it, but you are right the answer to this question, whether it's "leader" or "best player", is NOT Bogut.

Jets012
05-10-2016, 07:10 PM
Come on now guys, no team is every winning a title with Drummond as your best player. Drummond is a great supporting player. He's definitely not a guy that can carry a team.

To answer your question, there isn't any center in the league that can carry a team to a title. At one point, Dwight was, but that ship has sailed. The rest all have flaws.

KAT is the only guy that I think has the potential to be able to. Cousins couldn't for a variety of reasons. If you consider Davis a center (which I don't), he could maybe do it on a team perfectly fit to his strengths.

And get the **** out with Porzingis. Porzingis faded away the last two months of the regular season. He was a pretty good rookie. Nothing more nothing less. I highly doubt Porzingis ever develops into a player that you can say can be the second best player on a title team. He'll never be a top 20-25 player.

Towns is in another stratosphere than Kristaps. It's just reality.

Scoots
05-10-2016, 10:22 PM
KAT is the only real choice since AD says he's not a C. But even KAT is years from being there ... if he makes it.

Mave1002
05-11-2016, 02:28 AM
Festus "The Rock" Ezeli would take teams like the 76ers and Lakers to the finals.

/thread

As the back up center, that is.

Alayla
05-11-2016, 10:01 AM
1. Anthony Davis: He'd be great in the right lineup as a small-ball center. He's also got more offensive game than most of the traditional centers.
2. Andre Drummond: A beast who anchors one of the better defenses in the NBA. Don't ask him to shoot.
3. DeMarcus Cousins: He'd be first on this list if he'd grow up and play better defense.
4. Karl Anthony-Towns: Tim Duncan 2.0, but let's give him a couple seasons to get there.

I mean i see Davis and KAT as more 4's than 5's but
My one and only answer right now would be Drummond the guy is a monster.

Alayla
05-11-2016, 10:06 AM
Come on now guys, no team is every winning a title with Drummond as your best player. Drummond is a great supporting player. He's definitely not a guy that can carry a team.

To answer your question, there isn't any center in the league that can carry a team to a title. At one point, Dwight was, but that ship has sailed. The rest all have flaws.

KAT is the only guy that I think has the potential to be able to. Cousins couldn't for a variety of reasons. If you consider Davis a center (which I don't), he could maybe do it on a team perfectly fit to his strengths.

And get the **** out with Porzingis. Porzingis faded away the last two months of the regular season. He was a pretty good rookie. Nothing more nothing less. I highly doubt Porzingis ever develops into a player that you can say can be the second best player on a title team. He'll never be a top 20-25 player.

Towns is in another stratosphere than Kristaps. It's just reality.

Drummond has not even turned 23 yet and bigs are always slower to develop normally takes them 4 years to really show who they are Drummond this year proved that true once again.
The scary thing is its only up from here you can't possibly tell me you expect Drummond to be the same player 3 years down the line that he is today.

Kyben36
05-11-2016, 10:21 AM
Drummond has not even turned 23 yet and bigs are always slower to develop normally takes them 4 years to really show who they are Drummond this year proved that true once again.
The scary thing is its only up from here you can't possibly tell me you expect Drummond to be the same player 3 years down the line that he is today.

drummond will allways be a role player unless he can make free throws, you cant lead a team if your not on the court in the 4th quarter cause every time you touch the ball, people just grab you, his range is small and he isnt shaq offensively, he is a glorified dennis rodman

Hawkeye15
05-11-2016, 11:13 AM
KAT is pretty great and has the most potential to carry a team. They just need to give him better role players. I'd say he could in about 4-5 years.

he has them, they are babies. Wiggins should be a nice #2 option on a contender, and there are pieces there.

But KAT jumped into my mind too, give him 3 years, and he will be wrecking shop

Hawkeye15
05-11-2016, 11:17 AM
I think he's definitely capable in 3 years but he needs a better supporting cast. So the Wolves management has to do a better job getting players around him.

meh. With another lottery pick coming, Wiggins/Lavine/Rubio/Dieng/Bazz in place to use or trade, they have what they need around KAT. They just need to develop, and mix and match the right role players in.

da ThRONe
05-11-2016, 01:59 PM
drummond will allways be a role player unless he can make free throws, you cant lead a team if your not on the court in the 4th quarter cause every time you touch the ball, people just grab you, his range is small and he isnt shaq offensively, he is a glorified dennis rodman

The rules are going to change giving Drummond a lot more value. Hopefully SVG makes Drummond the go to player next year he showed he's ready.

JasonJohnHorn
05-12-2016, 04:50 PM
Come on. We both know there's no way Bogut could be the best player on a championship team. It could be argued that Wallace was the best overall player or had the most impact for the Pistons. No such argument can ever be made with Bogut.

I guess I should have put a winkie face before the word 'seriously' to make the shift from tongue-in-cheek to serious ;-)

That aside, there is no way it could be argued Wallace was the best all-around player. He was a niche player. Couldn't pass; could score; couldn't post up; couldn't shoot FTs. All he did was rebound and defend.

Billups was the best all-around player, him or Sheed. And Billups was the floor general, but everybody knew whose team it was: Ben's. He led by example.

As for Bogut.... I was joking... but he is a leader. When he got to GSW, Curry hadn't yet made an All-Star team, so Bogut was the only one besides Lee who had. He was a leader in the locker room and on the court.

Heediot
05-12-2016, 04:53 PM
KAT. If he could win the skills competition at all star weekend winning a title would be nothing.

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-12-2016, 05:02 PM
Cousins is the right answer if you surrounded him with the right people and he matured drastically. Like if he was on the Spurs right now I could totally see it happening for him.

KAT has potential for this and Anthony Davis too. But you need the great supporting cast. Not sure if AD counts as a center though.

da ThRONe
05-12-2016, 05:23 PM
Cousins is the right answer if you surrounded him with the right people and he matured drastically. Like if he was on the Spurs right now I could totally see it happening for him.

KAT has potential for this and Anthony Davis too. But you need the great supporting cast. Not sure if AD counts as a center though.

In fairness to any player a great supporting cast is needed for any championship team so that should be understood in this discussion.

Hawkeye15
05-12-2016, 05:41 PM
In fairness to any player a great supporting cast is needed for any championship team so that should be understood in this discussion.

Davis needs to stay healthy first and foremost

Shlumpledink
05-12-2016, 05:59 PM
Theoretically if the center position is weak then a team with a strong center would have a considerable advantage then, wouldn't he?

da ThRONe
05-12-2016, 06:06 PM
Davis needs to stay healthy first and foremost

I know it may seem more logical directing it at Davis because he's been hurt every season, but again this goes for all players.

I happen to think Davis is farther from being the center piece of a championship team than most basketball people.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2016, 01:42 PM
I know it may seem more logical directing it at Davis because he's been hurt every season, but again this goes for all players.

I happen to think Davis is farther from being the center piece of a championship team than most basketball people.

Well sure, but Davis is already showing that he hasn't been able to make it through a season. That needs to change.

da ThRONe
05-13-2016, 02:07 PM
Well sure, but Davis is already showing that he hasn't been able to make it through a season. That needs to change.

We can only hope.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2016, 05:39 PM
We can only hope.

what did you mean you think Davis is farther from being the center piece of a championship team than most?

da ThRONe
05-13-2016, 07:10 PM
what did you mean you think Davis is farther from being the center piece of a championship team than most?

He's more of a complimentary star player than an imposing force IMO.

prodigy
05-14-2016, 12:48 AM
So to be a leader you have to score 25 a night? I guess the Spurs don't believe in "leaders".

I said Green as a bit of a joke, but there are people voting him all-nba as a center and he is the center on the Warriors best lineup, and he is the Warriors leader and they did win a title with him as their leader.

KAT is the best bet for a more traditional center to lead a team to a title.

Pretty much yes. To lead a team I take it as u are the main guy, without you the team has no chance. Like LeBron. Need to be an all around player who dominate games from all aspects. Drummond don't have that skill set now, I mean he can't even play late in games.

I need to see how Green continues to develop. With Curry and Thompson Green don't get as many shots as he could on another team. But he has a great all around game. So it comes down to can he score for you at will when needed. He looked great without Curry but need a bigger sample. He's def not even close to a Center though.

Scoots
05-14-2016, 01:01 PM
The rules are going to change giving Drummond a lot more value. Hopefully SVG makes Drummond the go to player next year he showed he's ready.

What makes you think that?

Scoots
05-14-2016, 01:10 PM
Pretty much yes. To lead a team I take it as u are the main guy, without you the team has no chance. Like LeBron. Need to be an all around player who dominate games from all aspects. Drummond don't have that skill set now, I mean he can't even play late in games.

I need to see how Green continues to develop. With Curry and Thompson Green don't get as many shots as he could on another team. But he has a great all around game. So it comes down to can he score for you at will when needed. He looked great without Curry but need a bigger sample. He's def not even close to a Center though.

So, by that rationale most championship winning teams don't have "leaders".

Including:
2015 Warriors
2014 Spurs (didn't even have a 20 point scorer)
2011 Mavs
2008 Celtics
2007 Spurs

So, basically in the last decade the only "leaders" to win titles are LeBron and Kobe. Duncan and KG and Dirk and Curry are all punks who can't lead a title team, and those titles should have been won by Durant or Kobe because they scored more points. TEAM doesn't matter.

da ThRONe
05-14-2016, 05:24 PM
What makes you think that?

Silver has commented on the current state of the hack-a-whoever strategy. He said something along the lines that the committee will look at changing the rules this off season. He said that the fans deserve better. I'm pretty much paraphrasing, but if I was betting I'd say that they'll change the rules on intentional fouling players without the ball.

Teeboy1487
05-14-2016, 05:52 PM
KAT is pretty great and has the most potential to carry a team. They just need to give him better role players. I'd say he could in about 4-5 years.

Agreed

Scoots
05-14-2016, 07:27 PM
Silver has commented on the current state of the hack-a-whoever strategy. He said something along the lines that the committee will look at changing the rules this off season. He said that the fans deserve better. I'm pretty much paraphrasing, but if I was betting I'd say that they'll change the rules on intentional fouling players without the ball.
What he said they were going to address was jumping on the back on free throw rebounds because its unsafe. Not the whole off the ball foul thing.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

basch152
05-15-2016, 03:06 AM
So, by that rationale most championship winning teams don't have "leaders".

Including:
2015 Warriors
2014 Spurs (didn't even have a 20 point scorer)
2011 Mavs
2008 Celtics
2007 Spurs

So, basically in the last decade the only "leaders" to win titles are LeBron and Kobe. Duncan and KG and Dirk and Curry are all punks who can't lead a title team, and those titles should have been won by Durant or Kobe because they scored more points. TEAM doesn't matter.

How do you not bring up the 2004 pistons in this?

They are probably the best example in history of a team winning without a star.

SportsFanatic10
05-15-2016, 03:22 AM
Justise Winslow lol

Monta is beast
05-16-2016, 07:42 PM
Yi Jinlian

nycericanguy
05-17-2016, 09:42 AM
not right now but I hope KAT/KP/Okafor can bring back some of the big man dominance in the coming years. The game is too PG oriented right now. Would like to see more of a balance.

but it's also just the way teams play these days, Dwight Howard I think could still average 20+ a game, but teams just dont like to feature the post anymore.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2016, 10:14 AM
not right now but I hope KAT/KP/Okafor can bring back some of the big man dominance in the coming years. The game is too PG oriented right now. Would like to see more of a balance.

but it's also just the way teams play these days, Dwight Howard I think could still average 20+ a game, but teams just dont like to feature the post anymore.

the game has changed. It's no longer efficient to waste half the shot clock forcing the ball in, to play inside out. The new center (KAT for example), is a player who can score from anywhere.

Until rule changes happen, get used to the, dump it into the post, offense to be pretty much gone, or limited at least depending on matchups.