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Wade n Fade
05-05-2016, 11:09 AM
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/5/5/11528870/frank-vogel-fired-pacers-retained-let-go

Vogel let go. Pacers' job now open.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2016, 11:17 AM
He won't have any problems finding another gig. If I was him I'd take the year off, do some commentating and relax with his family....

...UNLESS his wife is a nagger, in which case I'd find another job immediately

aman_13
05-05-2016, 11:19 AM
I thought he did a good job with the Pacers.

Vincent
05-05-2016, 11:26 AM
I'm kind of confused with this firing.

Didn't his team kind of overachieve this year? I look at the roster and don't really see a contending team... yet they pushed a #2 seed to a game 7 (in a series that they probably could've won).

Maybe Bird is really intent on putting his teammate in Kevin McHale as the next head coach?

Wade n Fade
05-05-2016, 11:30 AM
If anyone should've been let go, it's Larry Bird. He hasn't put talent around PG. He traded for George Hill and gave away a top SF prospect (at the time) that blossomed into one of the best two way players in the last several years. His deal for Evan Turner is a joke. He matched that Portland offer for Roy the Trash Can Hibbert. Bird failed to trade Danny Granger when he had any value. That Ian Mahinmi trade was sad up until maybe this year?

Sly Guy
05-05-2016, 11:31 AM
really bad call. He seems to be one of the better ones. Last series one of the thoughts I was having was 'man, we'd be such a better team if we had a coach like vogel'

It won't happen, but I'd love if he came to coach my raps.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 11:33 AM
I heard this was coming yesterday and found it somewhat confusing. Apparently it's Bird wanting to go a different direction.

mudvayne387
05-05-2016, 11:36 AM
Really hoping the Knicks bring him in.

nycericanguy
05-05-2016, 11:44 AM
I think he's NY bound.

AllBall
05-05-2016, 11:51 AM
Wow. Just wow. Stupid move by the Pacers. Any team looking for a coach should be dialing up Vogel ASAP!

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 11:53 AM
Frank V did a great job with the talent or lack thereof on that pacer team. they were lucky to make the playoffs, and pushed a 2nd seed team to 7 games. They basically have George, a washed up Ellis, a couple rookies in Turner and S. Hill. What were they expecting out of this group exactly ?

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 11:55 AM
If anyone should've been let go, it's Larry Bird. He hasn't put talent around PG. He traded for George Hill and gave away a top SF prospect (at the time) that blossomed into one of the best two way players in the last several years. His deal for Evan Turner is a joke. He matched that Portland offer for Roy the Trash Can Hibbert. Bird failed to trade Danny Granger when he had any value. That Ian Mahinmi trade was sad up until maybe this year?

+1 he has a top 5 player on that team and has failed to put any kind of real help around him. The only bright sign is the emergence of Turner really.

GiantsSwaGG
05-05-2016, 11:58 AM
Knicks better be all over his nuts

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:00 PM
I thought he did a good job with the Pacers.

yeah, if your idea of a good job is getting bounced in the first round by a team that has shown they historically have no interest of getting out of the first round.....

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 12:02 PM
yeah, if your idea of a good job is getting bounced in the first round by a team that has shown they historically have no interest of getting out of the first round.....

have you seen who Paul George has on his team ? your post is comical.

pebloemer
05-05-2016, 12:02 PM
Vogel is one of the better coaches in the NBA IMO. He'll get scooped up fast. I didn't think the Pacers had coaching issue.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 12:04 PM
have you seen who Paul George has on his team ? your post is comical.

Welcome to Stylez.

Stunner
05-05-2016, 12:09 PM
Frank should def go to NY or to the Raps , I think their coach is getting fired .

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:09 PM
have you seen who Paul George has on his team ? your post is comical.

Monta ellis good player, miles turner (who people rave about), George hill, Jordan hill

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:10 PM
Frank should def go to NY or to the Raps , I think their coach is getting fired .

LMAO they are still in the playoffs, and they aren't being dominated... their first game went into OT

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:11 PM
but the irony of a team winning a playoff series and then firing their coach and hiring the coach of the team they beat. has that ever happened?

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 12:13 PM
Monta ellis good player, miles turner (who people rave about), George hill, Jordan hill

Ellis averaged 11.6 points per game in that series lol. .

M. Turner is a rookie.

Jordan Hill averaged 3 minutes per game and 0 points in that series.

At least try when you post bruh.

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 12:16 PM
but the irony of a team winning a playoff series and then firing their coach and hiring the coach of the team they beat. has that ever happened?

you're right it would be ironic if he was fired, but Casey isn't being fired. His team just won 56 games in the reg season and are in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Some raptor fans just don't like him as a hc and would like to see him replaced. but he isn't going anywhere.

FYL_McVeezy
05-05-2016, 12:24 PM
For the love of all that is Holy please let Vogel land in MSG :hope:

He's an excellent coach in this league....always got the most out of those pacer teams

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:32 PM
Ellis averaged 11.6 points per game in that series lol. .

M. Turner is a rookie.

Jordan Hill averaged 3 minutes per game and 0 points in that series.

At least try when you post bruh.

its the coaches job to get the most out of his players. Monta has averaged in the mid 20s before and Jordan hill has been 12 and 8 before. He should have put them in a position to succeed

FlashBolt
05-05-2016, 12:33 PM
If NY does not get this guy, they should just quit at everything they do.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2016, 12:44 PM
If NY does not get this guy, they should just quit at everything they do.

Nah, Phil wants to coach without actually doing the day to day grind or travel. So he'll stick with Rhambis and coach through him.

I sure hope Jeanie never gets her wish of Phil running the Lakers, this guy is pulling a real pilfering fast one in New York...

Vincent
05-05-2016, 12:45 PM
If NY does not get this guy, they should just quit at everything they do.

Does he run the triangle?

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 12:48 PM
its the coaches job to get the most out of his players. Monta has averaged in the mid 20s before and Jordan hill has been 12 and 8 before. He should have put them in a position to succeed

Hill's averages on the Lakers were simply inflated stats. The pacers have Mahimi and Allen at the C spot as well.

Monta is not the same player he once was and its clear. He got all the playing time in the world, he had the ball in his hands and was the primary ball handler along with Hill and George. I don't see how Frank didn't put him in a position to succeed as Ellis had every opportunity to rise to the occasion.

You're making excuses for mediocre players to paint a bad picture of a good coach in this league.

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 12:52 PM
Hill's averages on the Lakers were simply inflated stats. The pacers have Mahimi and Allen at the C spot as well.

Monta is not the same player he once was and its clear. He got all the playing time in the world, he had the ball in his hands and was the primary ball handler along with Hill and George. I don't see how Frank didn't put him in a position to succeed as Ellis had every opportunity to rise to the occasion.

You're making excuses for mediocre players to paint a bad picture of a good coach in this league.

just stating that other coaches have gotten more out of the same players. he might be a good coach but he wasn't getting the most out of his talent. and assuming he didn't have the talent when his talent wasn't performing is something any coach can do when they aren't doing well.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 12:53 PM
Larry Bird thinks good coaches leave after 3 years ... so he fired him? Bizarre.

Stunner
05-05-2016, 12:54 PM
LMAO they are still in the playoffs, and they aren't being dominated... their first game went into OT

I still think he might get fired lol Karl won COTY and got fired . It happens

I also think this raps core is prob done , they won't get any better than what they're . I think Derozan gone to LA

naps
05-05-2016, 01:09 PM
Why though? He is a fantastic coach and they overachieved this year. I didnt think they had enough talent to make the playoffs, let alone taking the #2 seed to game 7.

gaughan333
05-05-2016, 01:09 PM
so do we fault tyron lue for not getting james to play at prime lvl?

Vinylman
05-05-2016, 01:11 PM
I still think he might get fired lol Karl won COTY and got fired . It happens

I also think this raps core is prob done , they won't get any better than what they're . I think Derozan gone to LA

Clippers? Because as a Laker fan I don't want him within 1000 miles of our franchise.

mrblisterdundee
05-05-2016, 01:20 PM
I'm kind of confused with this firing.

Didn't his team kind of overachieve this year? I look at the roster and don't really see a contending team... yet they pushed a #2 seed to a game 7 (in a series that they probably could've won).

Maybe Bird is really intent on putting his teammate in Kevin McHale as the next head coach?

Yeah; Vogel definitely isn't the issue with the Pacers. They totally overachieved, in part because of his coaching and focus on defense. It's Bird and the team management that will end up losing the Pacers Paul George. I hope the Blazers make a hard run at him, offering up something based around McCollum, Harkless and/or Aminu.

TheNumber37
05-05-2016, 01:21 PM
Vogel did NOT get fired.

His contract was up and they did not renew it. He was not necessarily Larry's guy.

I think PAcers will be coached by:
1. Kevin Mchale
2. Nate Mcmillan
3. Brian Shaw

Vogel is from NJ. Here's hoping Phil can bring him back east

smith&wesson
05-05-2016, 01:24 PM
just stating that other coaches have gotten more out of the same players. he might be a good coach but he wasn't getting the most out of his talent. and assuming he didn't have the talent when his talent wasn't performing is something any coach can do when they aren't doing well.

Fair enough, but again that team is one player deep and that player is PG. Other than Turner they really don't have much talent on that team.

You can give Popavich the same team and I doubt he takes them any further. Its a talent issue over there.

aman_13
05-05-2016, 01:24 PM
yeah, if your idea of a good job is getting bounced in the first round by a team that has shown they historically have no interest of getting out of the first round.....

They won 45 games, top 3 defense and took a 2 seed to 7 games when no one had them winning that series.

He's a good coach.

DboneG
05-05-2016, 01:28 PM
Frank Vogel did a really good job with what he had. So, it seems like some kind of internal conflict. Maybe, Frank and Bird didn't see eye to eye on some things, maybe, Frank wanted more control, or he didn't jell with Paul George. Not clicking/jelling with the star player. That will get you fired! Remember Paul George wasn't happy with his role at the start of the season. All speculation.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 01:33 PM
Vogel did NOT get fired.

His contract was up and they did not renew it. He was not necessarily Larry's guy.

I think PAcers will be coached by:
1. Kevin Mchale
2. Nate Mcmillan
3. Brian Shaw

Vogel is from NJ. Here's hoping Phil can bring him back east

Shaw supposedly in talks with Walton for LA asst-head-coach gig.

IndyRealist
05-05-2016, 01:37 PM
Vogel did NOT get fired.

His contract was up and they did not renew it. He was not necessarily Larry's guy.

I think PAcers will be coached by:
1. Kevin Mchale
2. Nate Mcmillan
3. Brian Shaw

Vogel is from NJ. Here's hoping Phil can bring him back east

Bird has already said no on McHale, because they are friends.

"Not renewing his contract" is essentially the same thing as firing him. Semantics.

This is SOLELY about Bird wanting to play smallball, and Vogel being unable to get the team focused that way.

Slug3
05-05-2016, 01:39 PM
I mean Bird wants to play small and Vogel didn't. I don't think PG should play the 4 like Bird wanted him to. Bird really hasn't been that great of a GM since he has taken over and has made more bad decisions than good. This one could be another big one.

FlashBolt
05-05-2016, 01:46 PM
No matter how great your coach is, if it becomes stale, it's time for some change. That's just how it is. Both parties made a great decision. Vogel is a great coach (top ten and easily can be made for top 5) but I do think it's time they get a change.

NYCkid12
05-05-2016, 01:46 PM
just stating that other coaches have gotten more out of the same players. he might be a good coach but he wasn't getting the most out of his talent. and assuming he didn't have the talent when his talent wasn't performing is something any coach can do when they aren't doing well.

So where do you think the Pacers should have finished this year with this roster?

Vinylman
05-05-2016, 01:48 PM
I mean Bird wants to play small and Vogel didn't. I don't think PG should play the 4 like Bird wanted him to. Bird really hasn't been that great of a GM since he has taken over and has made more bad decisions than good. This one could be another big one.

he made Mitch his ***** during last offseason by getting the Lakers to take Hibberts **** deal and also give Indy a second rounder..

on second thought that might just be a function of Mitch being overrated.

beasted86
05-05-2016, 01:50 PM
Knicks better be all over his nuts

I was actually thinking he would be the type of guy who would fit well there.

He has a sort of cocky bravado that would mesh well with the NY media. Unfortunately Phil Jackson seems intent on a triangle offense and wants a puppet who will listen.

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 02:21 PM
Shaw supposedly in talks with Walton for LA asst-head-coach gig.

wtf, Walton is still being paid by the warriors.

I thinkt he assistant coach search can wait until after the warriors win a championship

R. Johnson#3
05-05-2016, 02:24 PM
If he wants a job he could probably have one before the playoffs are over.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-05-2016, 02:29 PM
Please Masai, pleaseeeeee fire Casey and hire this guy,

Saddletramp
05-05-2016, 02:38 PM
I know the Rockets were interested in seeing if he was retained or not. Not sure Vogel would want the possible headache, though.

FlashBolt
05-05-2016, 03:02 PM
Vogel would rather be unemployed for now than risk his career being sabotaged by the Rockets. Management needs to figure out what to do with Howard and Harden. You can't win with Harden when he talks about trying to improve but doesn't care a lick about defense.

AllBall
05-05-2016, 03:05 PM
No matter how great your coach is, if it becomes stale, it's time for some change. That's just how it is. Both parties made a great decision. Vogel is a great coach (top ten and easily can be made for top 5) but I do think it's time they get a change.

lol @ both parties

It was a one way kick out the door.

FlashBolt
05-05-2016, 03:05 PM
lol @ both parties

It was a one way kick out the door.

True lol

yungincome
05-05-2016, 03:10 PM
Knicks better be all over his nuts

:laugh2: Word!

Htownballa1622
05-05-2016, 03:57 PM
Vogel would rather be unemployed for now than risk his career being sabotaged by the Rockets. Management needs to figure out what to do with Howard and Harden. You can't win with Harden when he talks about trying to improve but doesn't care a lick about defense.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Word is Maury has something lined up with him for an interview. TBF though, Maury is interview MANY ppl.

Weird cuz I thought JVG was leading guy for Rox but haven't heard anything in regards to official interview or meeting. Time will tell.

FOXHOUND
05-05-2016, 04:16 PM
Oh please, come to the Knicks. He's openly talked about his appreciation for Phil in the past and is a flexible coach. Keep Rambis as AC to help him implement the triangle. Excellent defensive coach and knows how to take advantage of size, which the Knicks have with a top front court. Maybe he didn't excel offensively as well as he could have with the smaller approach, but that's A-OK here in the triangle :D

:hope:

ombada
05-05-2016, 04:38 PM
Bird has already said no on McHale, because they are friends.

"Not renewing his contract" is essentially the same thing as firing him. Semantics.

This is SOLELY about Bird wanting to play smallball, and Vogel being unable to get the team focused that way.

This is exactly right. Bird wanted Vogel to play smallball. George didnt want to play at the 4. Vogels solution was to play CJ miles at the 4 until he got injured, then go back to a traditional line-up. They ended up playing the traditional line-up the rest of the season, even after miles came back. Vogel folded to Georges wishes instead of doing what his boss said.

Life lesson here, always do what your boss tells you. (as long as hes not asking you to do something illegal)

Bird said he respects McHale too much as friend to be his boss, which is great news because he would be a serious downgrade at coach. Im hoping we go after someone like Mark Jackson, David Blatt, Brian Shaw or promote Nate Mcmillan. I wish we could have just kept Vogel, though.

I disagree with your middle point. There are differences between not renewing a contract and firing someone. The connotation, respect, how other view you and the situation.... it all matters in business and politics.

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2016, 04:47 PM
Bird seemed loyal to him. I'm surprised. He was doing a good job. I mean, they had nothing to work with last year with Hibbert and Stephenson gone, and George out with injury. But this year he did a great job with a limited roster.

I think this was a matter Bird not being able to progress. Hibbert played well for them, and they lost him for next to nothing, and Stephenson, though he's gone down hill, played really well for them and they lost him for nothing. So here the Pacers are, with no really improvement over the last 6 years, and who's to blame?

Well... not Vogel. If we look at the output that players like Hibbert and Stephenson have offered the league outside of Vogel's guidance, it seems pretty clear that he was doing something right.

I don't fault Bird either; this his just a problem every small-market team faces. Get decent, look forward to a deep run or second/first round knock out, don't get lottery picks, have a tough time signing free agents, and pretty soon you are running on a tread mill.


But Vogel has done a fine job. No reason to let him go.

GiantsSwaGG
05-05-2016, 04:57 PM
Monta ellis good player, miles turner (who people rave about), George hill, Jordan hill

:laugh2:

Ellis is an average player at best lol

Turner is a rookie

Geroge Hill average player

Jordan Hill is a back up

When Monta Ellis is your second best player, you're going to get bounced out of the 1st round, you're lucky to even make the playoffs!

Chronz
05-05-2016, 05:23 PM
If anyone should've been let go, it's Larry Bird. He hasn't put talent around PG. He traded for George Hill and gave away a top SF prospect (at the time) that blossomed into one of the best two way players in the last several years. His deal for Evan Turner is a joke. He matched that Portland offer for Roy the Trash Can Hibbert. Bird failed to trade Danny Granger when he had any value. That Ian Mahinmi trade was sad up until maybe this year?
As much as we all like to pretend it mostly a skill based job, it's a position where a dunce could succeed and grow into the role. Bird is on a bad steak but he's won exec of the year before and everyone eventually trends towards the mean. Its not like when he was a player. He could be the best one year and worst another.

Chronz
05-05-2016, 05:27 PM
:laugh2:

Ellis is an average player at best lol

Turner is a rookie

Geroge Hill average player

Jordan Hill is a back up

When Monta Ellis is your second best player, you're going to get bounced out of the 1st round, you're lucky to even make the playoffs!
Monta was far from their 2nd best player

ghettosean
05-05-2016, 05:29 PM
Please Masai, pleaseeeeee fire Casey and hire this guy,

Please let this happen... In this series... Lol.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 05:44 PM
Im hoping we go after someone like Mark Jackson, David Blatt, Brian Shaw or promote Nate Mcmillan.

You don't want Mark Jackson.

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 05:49 PM
Vogel would rather be unemployed for now than risk his career being sabotaged by the Rockets. Management needs to figure out what to do with Howard and Harden. You can't win with Harden when he talks about trying to improve but doesn't care a lick about defense.

I wasn't aware that you serve as his agent when your not posting on PSD

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 05:53 PM
This is exactly right. Bird wanted Vogel to play smallball. George didnt want to play at the 4. Vogels solution was to play CJ miles at the 4 until he got injured, then go back to a traditional line-up. They ended up playing the traditional line-up the rest of the season, even after miles came back. Vogel folded to Georges wishes instead of doing what his boss said.

Life lesson here, always do what your boss tells you. (as long as hes not asking you to do something illegal)

Bird said he respects McHale too much as friend to be his boss, which is great news because he would be a serious downgrade at coach. Im hoping we go after someone like Mark Jackson, David Blatt, Brian Shaw or promote Nate Mcmillan. I wish we could have just kept Vogel, though.

I disagree with your middle point. There are differences between not renewing a contract and firing someone. The connotation, respect, how other view you and the situation.... it all matters in business and politics.

ok so you hire mark Jackson to follow the orders of his boss... that's questionable.

its also ironic that you mention blatt because he got fired because he was not approved by his best player.....

likemystylez
05-05-2016, 05:55 PM
also mark Jackson is the type of coach that underachieves with his talent. (IE he had a warriors team with the talent to win in the high 60s and low 70s and he was stoked to win 50 games)

Jackson is a great coach to hire if your goal is to tank because he gets as little possible out of his talent, but if your interested in getting better- Jackson is a bad hire.

GiantsSwaGG
05-05-2016, 06:15 PM
Monta was far from their 2nd best player

When it comes to offense, he was their second option. Overall I guess you can say George Hill but that's still not saying much. Pacers had no business being in the playoffs with that roster!

jerellh528
05-05-2016, 06:25 PM
I'm sorry but Larry bird was a complete *** in the media about vogal. Especially the part where he basically says Vogel begged if there's anything he could do to keep his job.

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2016, 07:30 PM
:laugh2:

Ellis is an average player at best lol

Turner is a rookie

Geroge Hill average player

Jordan Hill is a back up

When Monta Ellis is your second best player, you're going to get bounced out of the 1st round, you're lucky to even make the playoffs!

And to be a rebound or a missed field goal away from the second round is a COY performance with that roster.

FOXHOUND
05-05-2016, 07:33 PM
And to be a rebound or a missed field goal away from the second round is a COY performance with that roster.

I'm a fan of Vogel's and would love to see him on the Knicks bench next season.

However, how much of that series do you chalk up to the choke artist Raptors?

JLynn943
05-05-2016, 08:43 PM
I'd love Vogel in Sacramento, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

sep11ie
05-05-2016, 08:46 PM
Vogel would rather be unemployed for now than risk his career being sabotaged by the Rockets. Management needs to figure out what to do with Howard and Harden. You can't win with Harden when he talks about trying to improve but doesn't care a lick about defense.

A team with Harden, 40 mill in cap room and management that is willing to spend and 1 season removed from the WCF is an attractive team.

D-Leethal
05-05-2016, 09:06 PM
As much as we all like to pretend it mostly a skill based job, it's a position where a dunce could succeed and grow into the role. Bird is on a bad steak but he's won exec of the year before and everyone eventually trends towards the mean. Its not like when he was a player. He could be the best one year and worst another.

I agree. Look at Joe Dumars for example. I would argue coaches face a similar situation. How many coaches go from straight BUM in one situation and thrive in another or vice versa? Terry Stotts? Mike D'Antoni? Circumstances and cohesion throughout the organization often dictate success in these gigs. GMs and Coaches are not one size fits all in this league.

Cal827
05-05-2016, 09:16 PM
Feel bad for the guy, he was a great coach (minus that gaffe taking Hibbert out a few years ago). The team hasn't had much but Paul George (who he didn't have last year). He practically coached George and scrubs this year, got into the playoffs in a very competitive Eastern Conference and with a couple calls or better shots, almost knocked off the 2 seed in the first round. It would have been better to judge him based on how he develops the young guys (Turner). If he becomes what I think he'll be, then Indiana will be back near the top again sooner rather than later.

ewing
05-05-2016, 09:40 PM
As much as we all like to pretend it mostly a skill based job, it's a position where a dunce could succeed and grow into the role. Bird is on a bad steak but he's won exec of the year before and everyone eventually trends towards the mean. Its not like when he was a player. He could be the best one year and worst another.


i agree and i don't think you can kill bird for the Hill trade. Leonard when 17 overall i think. Hill for a 17 is normally a very good trade. If anything it adds to the mystic of the Spurs. Also the Pacers have had horrible luck. The Malice in the place was followed by Granger breaking and that was followed by PG breaking. Vogal is a very good coach and clearly there must have been a issue that we don't know about likely b/t him and the front office but the Pacers are generally well run IMO.

More-Than-Most
05-05-2016, 09:43 PM
Stupid move... Love Vogel..... Its a shame the lakers ran out and signed Walton... This guy should be knick bound

ewing
05-05-2016, 09:46 PM
I'm sorry but Larry bird was a complete *** in the media about vogal. Especially the part where he basically says Vogel begged if there's anything he could do to keep his job.

i agree. Bird has never been shy about talking trash. I think his comments show that they had some serious issues. The only way you can justify Vogal being let go is if the players were ready to jump ship on him or if there were issues that couldn't be resolved b/t him and the front office. Vogal has performed very well and deserved better.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 10:53 PM
A team with Harden, 40 mill in cap room and management that is willing to spend and 1 season removed from the WCF is an attractive team.

So attractive their interim coach said no thanks to sticking around.

FlashBolt
05-06-2016, 12:37 AM
So attractive their interim coach said no thanks to sticking around.

So attractive that Hakeem is taking his talents elsewhere

Saddletramp
05-06-2016, 12:52 AM
So attractive their interim coach said no thanks to sticking around.

I speculated earlier that this was a "turn it down before it's not offered to me" situation and it's pretty much been confirmed now. But keep bringing it up.

Scoots
05-06-2016, 01:00 AM
I speculated earlier that this was a "turn it down before it's not offered to me" situation and it's pretty much been confirmed now. But keep bringing it up.
The story was he took his name out and that is unusual. That hasn't changed. The speculation as to the reason is just speculation.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

sep11ie
05-06-2016, 04:11 AM
JB was never going to be offered the HC job here anyways first of all, and second of all, he said he wants to concentrate on being an assistant coach again since he was not ready for head coach duties.

effen5
05-06-2016, 07:16 AM
A team with Harden, 40 mill in cap room and management that is willing to spend and 1 season removed from the WCF is an attractive team.

I wonder if I'm the only person that thinks that harden isn't a good selling point.

What a dumb move tho by Bird. Pretty much happened to Thibs too where the FO wants you to over achieve with **** talent. The grass is not greener on the other side Bird.

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 08:26 AM
I wonder if I'm the only person that thinks that harden isn't a good selling point.

What a dumb move tho by Bird. Pretty much happened to Thibs too where the FO wants you to over achieve with **** talent. The grass is not greener on the other side Bird.

ummm I think bird repeatedly stated that he didnt have a problem with vogels ability to coach, but he wanted to go in a different direction... and thought a new voice was needed in the locker room

PowerHouse
05-06-2016, 09:51 AM
All this talk about Bird wanting to play small ball when he used to win rings playing alongside two 7 footers and dominating the glass. Interesting.

IndyRealist
05-06-2016, 10:06 AM
I wonder if I'm the only person that thinks that harden isn't a good selling point.

What a dumb move tho by Bird. Pretty much happened to Thibs too where the FO wants you to over achieve with **** talent. The grass is not greener on the other side Bird.

Harden is a decent selling point. Harden and Dwight together is not, with all the infighting made public.

AllBall
05-06-2016, 10:25 AM
You don't want Mark Jackson.

I love how Warriors fans continue to go out of their way to belittle Mark Jackson when the rest of the league clearly recognizes his talents. Stop with the insecurity Bay Area. :rolleyes:

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 12:34 PM
I love how Warriors fans continue to go out of their way to belittle Mark Jackson when the rest of the league clearly recognizes his talents. Stop with the insecurity Bay Area. :rolleyes:

Jeff Van Gundy praising his friend and colleague and co espn employee while doing broadcasts is hardly proof of what the rest of the league thinks of Mark Jackson.

1) mark Jackson has not been interviewed a single time since leaving the warriors. ESPN throws rumors out that he is in the mix for all these jobs as they want to talk up their employees, but the fact remains- not a single front office has interviewed mark Jackson. (meanwhile a slew of guys who have never coached before are getting offers for 3 times what Jackson was making with the warriors a couple years ago)

2) The warriors didn't make any significant changes to the roster and they are averaging 20 more wins per season since Jackson left. strongly suggesting Jackson was not getting the most out of his talent.... when ever guy on the roster (except david lee) got significantly better immediately when Jackson was not the coach.

3) Jackson is an isolation coach- and that's clearly the opposite direction the league is going in. isolation ball is becoming more and more a thing of the past if your goal is to get your team playing to their max.

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 12:35 PM
All this talk about Bird wanting to play small ball when he used to win rings playing alongside two 7 footers and dominating the glass. Interesting.

its a different game today

Scoots
05-06-2016, 12:36 PM
I love how Warriors fans continue to go out of their way to belittle Mark Jackson when the rest of the league clearly recognizes his talents. Stop with the insecurity Bay Area. :rolleyes:

"The rest of the league clearly recognizes his talents" to the level that he has not had a single interview in 2 years since he was fired and he very clearly is interested in getting another coaching gig. It's not insecurity, we are looking out for our fellow NBA fans. We know a lot more about the man than people elsewhere do.

And speaking of insecurity ... your sig banner is about getting a coach fired.

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 12:39 PM
"The rest of the league clearly recognizes his talents" to the level that he has not had a single interview in 2 years since he was fired and he very clearly is interested in getting another coaching gig. It's not insecurity, we are looking out for our fellow NBA fans. We know a lot more about the man than people elsewhere do.

And speaking of insecurity ... your sig banner is about getting a coach fired.

I don't understand how people don't see that as a glaring problem with the argument that Jackson is a great coach.

AllBall
05-06-2016, 01:31 PM
I don't understand how people don't see that as a glaring problem with the argument that Jackson is a great coach.

Oh yeah, how many black head coaches have gotten hired in the last 2 years?

kingsdelez24
05-06-2016, 01:34 PM
All this talk about Bird wanting to play small ball when he used to win rings playing alongside two 7 footers and dominating the glass. Interesting.

its a different game today

Bird even opined to Paul George that he was putting up his best number when he started at the 4 and McHale was put back on the bench

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 01:39 PM
Oh yeah, how many black head coaches have gotten hired in the last 2 years?

OMG, you gotta stop watching espn and spitting Stephen a smiths narrative.

how many white candidates were hired over blacks interviewed who weren't equally or better qualified?

Nobody talks about kevin McHale getting canned right after he just took his team to the western conference finals and then a black coach taking over- who nearly got swept in the first round with the same talent level (actually Beverly and monti were injured last season)

anyways- this racial talk is going to get taken the wrong way and im gonna get an infraction. Personally I think the skin color of coaches hired is baseless and an argument espn makes to get peoples attention. I don't believe the owners have a collaboration to discriminate coaching candidates

Scoots
05-06-2016, 01:47 PM
Oh yeah, how many black head coaches have gotten hired in the last 2 years?

So you think what makes Jackson a good coach is his skin color? The staff that replaced him generated a black head coach the next year. This is not a race issue, it's an incompetence issue.

Saddletramp
05-06-2016, 02:23 PM
JB was never going to be offered the HC job here anyways first of all, and second of all, he said he wants to concentrate on being an assistant coach again since he was not ready for head coach duties.

Ehhhhh, save your internet breath. Some people either can't see the difference between turning it down before it's offered and turning it down before it's not offered or they just want to keep twisting that knife. They're either being dopey, dumb or a jerk.

Scoots
05-06-2016, 03:07 PM
Ehhhhh, save your internet breath. Some people either can't see the difference between turning it down before it's offered and turning it down before it's not offered or they just want to keep twisting that knife. They're either being dopey, dumb or a jerk.

No, him not being offered the job or not is moot. Whether he was going to be offered it or not is speculation. That he asked not be considered for it is fact. You don't need to like it but it's true.

The vast majority of the time an interim coach wants to be considered for the job if for no other reason than to go through the process. JB may have seen the writing on the wall, but in the end he decided that even the appearance of being considered for the job did his career no good.

I am not now, nor have I ever been "against" Morey or the Rockets organization. I have several friends who are rabid Rockets fans (I have a lot of business in the Houston area). But that doesn't mean I can't see or talk about the issues they are facing either.

kobe4thewinbang
05-06-2016, 03:19 PM
I'm kind of confused with this firing.

Didn't his team kind of overachieve this year? I look at the roster and don't really see a contending team... yet they pushed a #2 seed to a game 7 (in a series that they probably could've won).

Maybe Bird is really intent on putting his teammate in Kevin McHale as the next head coach?I completely agree. They did overachieve and Vogel put the fear of god into them when they were on the verge of being blown out by 15 in Game 7 then made that crazy run. Were it not for that blatant no-call foul by DeRozan, the Pacers might be going against their rival Heat instead. But no! So they fire the damn coach?

Get a better GM. The players have always been the issue with this new Pacers team. They had the Heat on the brink of elimination, and then it looked like they were about to whoop them in the playoffs, but the Hibbert/George crap and the team in general had a mental breakdown. People must've forgotten that they were the #1 seed in 2014.

It's a raw hand dealt to Vogel, who I hope gets with a franchise that knows how to put it all together. I think he would help the Grizzlies return to form. They have a star player in Paul George, who has defied that broken leg and been clutch.

I want the Pacers to be good. But George Hill is not a leader IMO and definitely underperformed in Game 7.

:bs:

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2016, 03:52 PM
JB was never going to be offered the HC job here anyways first of all, and second of all, he said he wants to concentrate on being an assistant coach again since he was not ready for head coach duties.

That's funny. Because early in the season, when I mentioned that the Rockets should look to get a coach to replace McHale, Rockets fans responded to me by saying that the Rockets already had one and that they made it clear they planned to keep JB long-term.

That early in the season, and with Harden and Howard on board with some quality role players, there were some quality coaches who would have been interested in taking that job, but Houston didn't even look into a different coach. I'd say a lof ot people were expecting them to stick with JB from the sounds of it.

ewing
05-06-2016, 03:55 PM
I don't think Frank Vogal was fired b/c he is black :)

Chronz
05-06-2016, 03:59 PM
ummm I think bird repeatedly stated that he didnt have a problem with vogels ability to coach, but he wanted to go in a different direction... and thought a new voice was needed in the locker room

There were like 3 guys who've heard his voice more than a year tho. Was really hoping for more time on this one, my roommate is trying to be optimistic cuz he loves them pacers but he better get a good replacement.

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2016, 04:01 PM
Oh yeah, how many black head coaches have gotten hired in the last 2 years?

I think there is an issue color when it comes to coaching. Some people may not want to talk about it, or admit to it, but there is a concern. I don't think it is overt, or intentional, but you don't see contending teams given the reigns over to a first time NBA coach or former player with no coaching experience who also happens to be Black, but you DO see that OFTEN with white coaches: Kerr, Blatt, Donovan, Hoiberg.

Players turned coach who are Black often have to pick up jobs with lotter teams. Like Doc getting picked up by the Magic, or Fisher getting picked up by the Knicks.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but you see the top coaching positions often go to white coaches.

Scoots
05-06-2016, 04:37 PM
I think there is an issue color when it comes to coaching. Some people may not want to talk about it, or admit to it, but there is a concern. I don't think it is overt, or intentional, but you don't see contending teams given the reigns over to a first time NBA coach or former player with no coaching experience who also happens to be Black, but you DO see that OFTEN with white coaches: Kerr, Blatt, Donovan, Hoiberg.

Players turned coach who are Black often have to pick up jobs with lotter teams. Like Doc getting picked up by the Magic, or Fisher getting picked up by the Knicks.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but you see the top coaching positions often go to white coaches.

I agree ... in a sport where far more than 50% of the players are black one should expect more than 30% of coaches to be black. But racism isn't necessarily the cause of it. Part of it is that race WAS a part of it and a bunch of the guys still working are old white guys who were promoted by racists 25 years ago. Part of it is that at the college and pro level there are a lot more white guys volunteering for the internships that lead to coaching gigs 10-15 years down the line. Part of it is that a large percentage of the black coaches are being hired as "ex-players who can relate" rather than lifers in coaching. Those ex-players flaming out through being under prepared are doing their brothers no favors either.

And sure, there is some mild profiling still in there ... the kind where a rich old white guy can understand where another rich old white guy is coming from than he can a 38 years old black guy from Compton.

The Warriors went from a black first time coach to a white first time coach, but the black coach lost his job because he refused to hire top talent to help him on the bench. The white guy hired the best coaches he knew and they happened to be 2 black guys and 2 white guys and one of each has now gone on to be a head coach elsewhere.

In such an extremely exclusive club the sample size and methodology make it impossible to draw a conclusion from mere statistics.

Saddletramp
05-06-2016, 04:39 PM
That's funny. Because early in the season, when I mentioned that the Rockets should look to get a coach to replace McHale, Rockets fans responded to me by saying that the Rockets already had one and that they made it clear they planned to keep JB long-term.

That early in the season, and with Harden and Howard on board with some quality role players, there were some quality coaches who would have been interested in taking that job, but Houston didn't even look into a different coach. I'd say a lof ot people were expecting them to stick with JB from the sounds of it.

Who said that? I think everyone had a "wait and see" approach to it. Plus, you normally don't get a top level coach in the middle of the year. No time to implement their own strategy, no training camp, etc..... As the year wore on, we kept hearing that the players lived JB, but they didn't seem to play like it.

He knew he wasn't getting it even if he wanted it or not. So he bailed early. Pretty sure that if they're main guys fell through and they came back to him with the job at a $20 million over 5 years or whatever, he'd take it in a heartbeat. Les Alexander wants to make a splash for free agents as he knows they won't be drafting high anytime soon and JB Bickerstaff isn't a splash considering what he did last year.

likemystylez
05-06-2016, 06:49 PM
I agree ... in a sport where far more than 50% of the players are black one should expect more than 30% of coaches to be black. But racism isn't necessarily the cause of it. Part of it is that race WAS a part of it and a bunch of the guys still working are old white guys who were promoted by racists 25 years ago. Part of it is that at the college and pro level there are a lot more white guys volunteering for the internships that lead to coaching gigs 10-15 years down the line. Part of it is that a large percentage of the black coaches are being hired as "ex-players who can relate" rather than lifers in coaching. Those ex-players flaming out through being under prepared are doing their brothers no favors either.

And sure, there is some mild profiling still in there ... the kind where a rich old white guy can understand where another rich old white guy is coming from than he can a 38 years old black guy from Compton.

The Warriors went from a black first time coach to a white first time coach, but the black coach lost his job because he refused to hire top talent to help him on the bench. The white guy hired the best coaches he knew and they happened to be 2 black guys and 2 white guys and one of each has now gone on to be a head coach elsewhere.

In such an extremely exclusive club the sample size and methodology make it impossible to draw a conclusion from mere statistics.

Great post,

The problem is all these rational reasons for the discrepancy between black coaches and white coaches based on actual facts and actual history are not nearly as interesting as playing the race card based soley off first glance.

Its just such a more powerful and controversial statement to just say there is racism in the nba.


and don't get me started on the irony of making that claim in a thread where one of the more respected coaches in the nba got canned- and what race was he?

FOXHOUND
05-06-2016, 06:50 PM
Yeah... I don't care what color Vogel is, I would just like to see him coaching the Knicks. :D

IndyRealist
05-06-2016, 06:56 PM
The big man bias seems to be far more prevalent than the racial bias in coaching.

GoferKing_
05-07-2016, 07:10 AM
Wait, this is a topic about race? Have been fooled by the title.

IndyRealist
05-07-2016, 01:07 PM
He won't have any problems finding another gig. If I was him I'd take the year off, do some commentating and relax with his family.... http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/7.gif
http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/8.gif http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/42.gif

You really probably want to "Reply with Quote" so it doesn't seem like you're trying to claim someone else's statement as your own. And imbedding images is against the rules.

warfelg
05-07-2016, 01:10 PM
You really probably want to "Reply with Quote" so it doesn't seem like you're trying to claim someone else's statement as your own. And imbedding images is against the rules.

It's a spam bot.

Scoots
05-07-2016, 01:48 PM
It's a spam bot.

Twas my assumption.

Saddletramp
05-07-2016, 02:13 PM
Got another one. Good job, Spammy.

eDush
05-07-2016, 03:54 PM
have you seen who Paul George has on his team ? your post is comical.

Monta ellis good player, miles turner (who people rave about), George hill, Jordan hill
Is that why you wanted to trade Curry for .50 off the dollar cause he was constantly milking his knee/ankles injuries when Keith Smart was still the HC and probably agree with him ridiculing Steph while he treated Monta like a star?

It hurts me to see that and wanted both of them gone fast so Steph can finally get the support that his previous coaches on the Warriors never gave him :nod:

blahblahyoutoo
05-07-2016, 04:13 PM
You don't want Mark Jackson.

why anyone still wants mark jackson after kerr has exposed him as a horrible coach is beyond me.

eDush
05-07-2016, 04:43 PM
You don't want Mark Jackson.

why anyone still wants mark jackson after kerr has exposed him as a horrible coach is beyond me.
Cause he believed in Steph as a player and as a man unlike his previous coaches like Nellie and Smart. I'm sure Monta don't want him cause he played a role in ridding him for a center :clap:

Redrum187
05-07-2016, 05:29 PM
I'm curious what happens to his coaching career after this.

Scoots
05-07-2016, 07:03 PM
Is that why you wanted to trade Curry for .50 off the dollar cause he was constantly milking his knee/ankles injuries when Keith Smart was still the HC and probably agree with him ridiculing Steph while he treated Monta like a star?

It hurts me to see that and wanted both of them gone fast so Steph can finally get the support that his previous coaches on the Warriors never gave him :nod:

What does any of that have to do with Vogel?

Scoots
05-07-2016, 07:04 PM
Cause he believed in Steph as a player and as a man unlike his previous coaches like Nellie and Smart. I'm sure Monta don't want him cause he played a role in ridding him for a center :clap:

Actually Jackson was furious Monta was traded for Bogut.