PDA

View Full Version : Why do people still think Bron gets favorable ref treatment?



Chronz
05-04-2016, 12:50 PM
I swear this hasn't been the case in years but neither side will ever agree. Any video we see Bron getting slapped in the face will be followed by him traveling (although I say everyone travels). Dude was getting mugged vs GS IMO but these playoffs have been different.

Check this graph some redditor posted:

http://imgur.com/YKcJEhn


Either Bron has lost so much of his athletic ability that the same shots hes getting are no longer conducive to fouls or the refs are missing the fouls altogether. Its just weird to me because I remember an old MJ getting more love but he was prolly more athletic even then.

Anyways, who still believes Bron gets ref love?

Tony_Starks
05-04-2016, 01:04 PM
Lebron is like Shaq in that he's so strong and physical, it's very hard to ref him. Unlike Shaq tho he's super dramatic when he does get hit so it makes it even more difficult to decipher between legit fouls and his acting.

I think it goes both ways, he still gets a fair share of superstar calls but there are times people get away with cheap shots on him because he cries wolf.

Sportsguy9695
05-04-2016, 01:11 PM
When your a big superstar like him you get calls in your favor. Kind of like veteran pitchers get favorable calls from umpires or when they are playing at home they get more favorable calls

Scoots
05-04-2016, 01:13 PM
Because he does?

But that's okay, he's earned it.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 01:17 PM
I swear this hasn't been the case in years but neither side will ever agree. Any video we see Bron getting slapped in the face will be followed by him traveling (although I say everyone travels). Dude was getting mugged vs GS IMO but these playoffs have been different.

Check this graph some redditor posted:

http://imgur.com/YKcJEhn


Either Bron has lost so much of his athletic ability that the same shots hes getting are no longer conducive to fouls or the refs are missing the fouls altogether. Its just weird to me because I remember an old MJ getting more love but he was prolly more athletic even then.

Anyways, who still believes Bron gets ref love?

Something seems amiss in that graph when Klay Thompson is right near James Harden, and what made certain players qualify? I don't see Steph Curry or Kawhi or CP3 ... I'm suspect of any dataset I can't define.

FlashBolt
05-04-2016, 02:16 PM
LeBron hasn't been getting favorable calls for awhile now. That has turned into James Harden department. Watching LeBron play, it's completely hilariously awful that he sometimes end games with 1-5 FTA. He's like the Shaq of forwards/guards as Lue would say. I always cringe when there is a smaller defender such as Reggie Jackson who tries to guard LeBron and when LeBron attacks the paint, idiots think they should call an offensive foul on LeBron. Even SVG admitted that the plan was to get LeBron to get called for fouls by using smaller defenders. It's pathetic. NBA refs need to stop allowing small guards defend big guys. If they get hurt, that's their problem.

ghettosean
05-04-2016, 02:35 PM
Any idea how this information was gathered? I don't really want to take this as fact unless there is a way to verify the data because some of the names look a bit odd to me.

Jeremy Lin is in there... If this is right I guess he gets the calls but just not the correct ones as some fans posted the flagrant fouls video a month ago or so.

ewing
05-04-2016, 02:41 PM
I think it a combination of things. One is that he doesn't get the calls like he used to. Another is he is the boy that cried wolf. A third is that the book on him is to make him a shot maker. He definitely does take a lot of contact when posting smaller players

Hawkeye15
05-04-2016, 02:53 PM
Lebron is like Shaq in that he's so strong and physical, it's very hard to ref him. Unlike Shaq tho he's super dramatic when he does get hit so it makes it even more difficult to decipher between legit fouls and his acting.

I think it goes both ways, he still gets a fair share of superstar calls but there are times people get away with cheap shots on him because he cries wolf.

yeah he really got into the theatrics of it all the past 5 years, and it didn't help his cause. He is very difficult to ref

Hawkeye15
05-04-2016, 02:55 PM
I think it a combination of things. One is that he doesn't get the calls like he used to. Another is he is the boy that cried wolf. A third is that the book on him is to make him a shot maker. He definitely does take a lot of contact when posting smaller players

big part of it, and as Chronz asked initially, yes, his burst is less, much less, than it was earlier in his career. Even though he couldn't shoot, teams still couldn't stop that straight line drive when he was young, because he was essentially a PF who needed a half step to blow you off the dribble. Now he is still quick, but not like he was.

FlashBolt
05-04-2016, 03:00 PM
Any idea how this information was gathered? I don't really want to take this as fact unless there is a way to verify the data because some of the names look a bit odd to me.

Jeremy Lin is in there... If this is right I guess he gets the calls but just not the correct ones as some fans posted the flagrant fouls video a month ago or so.

I think the Jeremy Lin one has to do with him not getting any flagrant foul calls when he keeps getting whacked on the face.

FOXHOUND
05-04-2016, 03:03 PM
He also is still a monster in transition, still leading the NBA in transition PPG. Any of those obviously end in a FGA inside 5 feet, almost always of the open dunk variety. So there's a pretty decent chunk of FGA inside 5 feet that don't ever have any contact at all. But I would say that combined with what else has been said in this thread.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 03:31 PM
He also is still a monster in transition, still leading the NBA in transition PPG. Any of those obviously end in a FGA inside 5 feet, almost always of the open dunk variety. So there's a pretty decent chunk of FGA inside 5 feet that don't ever have any contact at all. But I would say that combined with what else has been said in this thread.

He leads the NBA in transition PPG? Where is that stat from? I don't know one way or the other, but Clevelend gets about half as many transition PPG as other teams in the NBA so it would be surprising if LeBron was #1 in the NBA.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 03:42 PM
He leads the NBA in transition PPG? Where is that stat from? I don't know one way or the other, but Clevelend gets about half as many transition PPG as other teams in the NBA so it would be surprising if LeBron was #1 in the NBA.

I did a little searching and did find that LeBron is not leading the NBA in transition PPG with at least Westbrook and Harden ahead of him. I also found that LeBron had far fewer opportunities than the 3 who finished behind him so he was being efficient with his chances.

FlashBolt
05-04-2016, 03:44 PM
He leads the NBA in transition PPG? Where is that stat from? I don't know one way or the other, but Clevelend gets about half as many transition PPG as other teams in the NBA so it would be surprising if LeBron was #1 in the NBA.

He's #5. Curry is #1.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/misc/?sort=PTS_FB&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Scoots
05-04-2016, 03:49 PM
He's #5. Curry is #1.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/misc/?sort=PTS_FB&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

That's total, not per game but enough to get the actual number.

Then there is the definition difference between "transition" and "fast break"

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/playtype/transition/?sort=Points&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CF=GP*G*41

Chronz
05-04-2016, 04:58 PM
Good point on the transition shots but I would argue hes always gotten those, maybe to a greater degree back when he could defend+run like mad.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2016, 05:19 PM
Good point on the transition shots but I would argue hes always gotten those, maybe to a greater degree back when he could defend+run like mad.

oh for sure he did. More in fact

DboneG
05-04-2016, 05:58 PM
There's no way LeBron gets favorable treatment from the refs. If he does, he deserve it. His game has evolved, we don't see him going to the basket with a full head of steam like we use to. LeBron know the defender will hard foul or fall down in front of him. You see him maneuvering to the basket and throwing up a shot with the left. (I hate that move!) He's passing more.

ghettosean
05-04-2016, 08:27 PM
Any idea how this information was gathered? I don't really want to take this as fact unless there is a way to verify the data because some of the names look a bit odd to me.

Jeremy Lin is in there... If this is right I guess he gets the calls but just not the correct ones as some fans posted the flagrant fouls video a month ago or so.

I think the Jeremy Lin one has to do with him not getting any flagrant foul calls when he keeps getting whacked on the face.

So if the flagrant is not called but a regular foul like in the video happens instead does that mean he gets those calls or not?

This is why I'm interested how the information was gathered and even how criteria like above is counted.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2016, 08:59 PM
Lebron over the past 3 or 4 years has cried alot for fouls and overacted a ton so maybe that is part of it? but him becoming this way is also because of how bad he had it early on and lately... He like Shaq gets brutalized a ton and because of their size the refs just hold their whistles.... The only athlete in basketball I think gets screwed more than him lately by the refs is Melo..... Its a joke how size determines what is and isnt a foul... Iverson for example.... Like harden if you looked at iverson wrong he was going to the line and people would say how tough he is and how much he got hit but he got hit no more than anyone else but because he was small it was always a foul.

Tonights game is a prime example.... he has been fouled several times but nothing... its whatever at this point and it wont change and I have no issues with it.... I only have issues when haters think he gets all the calls in the world which is just laughable

ewing
05-04-2016, 09:01 PM
I think another reason is b/c he has transitioned to more of a bullying game. he still explodes to finish but otherwise he often looking to establish position with power. for whatever reason you just don't get calls when you play that style.

ewing
05-04-2016, 09:03 PM
Lebron over the past 3 or 4 years has cried alot for fouls and overacted a ton so maybe that is part of it? but him becoming this way is also because of how bad he had it early on and lately... He like Shaq gets brutalized a ton and because of their size the refs just hold their whistles.... The only athlete in basketball I think gets screwed more than him lately by the refs is Melo..... Its a joke how size determines what is and isnt a foul... Iverson for example.... Like harden if you looked at iverson wrong he was going to the line and people would say how tough he is and how much he got hit but he got hit no more than anyone else but because he was small it was always a foul.

Tonights game is a prime example.... he has been fouled several times but nothing... its whatever at this point and it wont change and I have no issues with it.... I only have issues when haters think he gets all the calls in the world which is just laughable


Melo is actually a really good example of what I am saying in the post right after yours. He plays bully ball all the time. I think its why he doesn't get more calls. Bron did get absolutely malled in the first quarter after a long love lead pass in the 1st quarter. I think he was the only Cav passed 1/2 court. I don't how the refs couldn't have seen it

More-Than-Most
05-04-2016, 09:08 PM
Melo is actually a really good example of what I am saying in the post right after yours. He plays bully ball all the time. I think its why he doesn't get more calls. Bron did get absolutely malled in the first quarter after a long love lead pass in the 1st quarter. I think he was the only Cav passed 1/2 court. I don't how the refs couldn't have seen it

I would feel more sorry for him if he didnt act like he did the last 3 to 4 years in terms of whining but now its more so his own fault... I do agree with the bully ball... I just hate the notion he gets a ton of calls... its not accurate... His size helps and hurts him... Its why i cant understand the harden love man.... he gets every ****ing call... I just dont understand it

ewing
05-04-2016, 09:14 PM
I would feel more sorry for him if he didnt act like he did the last 3 to 4 years in terms of whining but now its more so his own fault... I do agree with the bully ball... I just hate the notion he gets a ton of calls... its not accurate... His size helps and hurts him... Its why i cant understand the harden love man.... he gets every ****ing call... I just dont understand it

I can see that. Bron doesn't bully as much as Melo. He is bigger but Melo is always banging to get to his spot then when he gets hit on the shot its a no call. I think Bron suffers the same way. most of the time if he uses his speed he is setting up a pass and not a shot at least in these playoffs it seems

FOXHOUND
05-05-2016, 02:54 AM
That's total, not per game but enough to get the actual number.

Then there is the definition difference between "transition" and "fast break"

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/playtype/transition/?sort=Points&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CF=GP*G*41

Yup, thanks for the correction on those stats and I did mean fast break. I felt like I saw that during the year that he was still tops but idk how to find that hard evidence so I guess it's moot. That would only be 3-4 FGA a game but a decent chunk. Also worth noting on that transition list that his SF freq of 20.5% is much higher than all of the top FGA guys except for Westbrook, who is at 18.1%, so he's certainly not lacking in calls there.

I think everyone else has painted the picture well though. The combo of his size/strength making it difficult to judge some calls combined with the flopping/whining he has done over the past 5 or 6 years. I think he used to get away with murder with refs and I'll never forget the insane flop he got away with against Tyson Chandler and JR Smith in game 1 vs the Knicks in the 2012 playoffs.

For the lol's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw

prodigy
05-05-2016, 03:00 AM
Lebron is like Shaq in that he's so strong and physical, it's very hard to ref him. Unlike Shaq tho he's super dramatic when he does get hit so it makes it even more difficult to decipher between legit fouls and his acting.

I think it goes both ways, he still gets a fair share of superstar calls but there are times people get away with cheap shots on him because he cries wolf.

End of the day a foul is a foul. Slap on the arm is a foul for Mo Williams and Lebron James. If a ref says Bron is to strong so we won't call that a foul. Well that's cheating no?

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2016, 09:19 AM
It's the same reason people see the Nazis as evil. Sure... the Nazi party has been extinct since WWII and hasn't done anything evil lately, but that time when they were doing evil stuff is all anybody remembers.

Vee-Rex
05-05-2016, 10:12 AM
It's the same reason people see the Nazis as evil. Sure... the Nazi party has been extinct since WWII and hasn't done anything evil lately, but that time when they were doing evil stuff is all anybody remembers.

Yup, people are like 2 years behind.

Vee-Rex
05-05-2016, 10:16 AM
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2016/03/lebron-james-free-throws-chart/

Read the article and you'll see how LeBron doesn't get foul calls as expected. Here's another chart to support Chronz's:

http://wfny.shoutitoutdesign.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/free.throws.3.png

For a guy that has been shooting less jumpers and have SO many shot attempts near the rim from driving, he doesn't get foul calls as expected.

He is averaging nearly 50% LESS free throws in the playoffs this year than his entire career.

Vee-Rex
05-05-2016, 10:20 AM
BTW, I think Chronz's entire argument was to shut down the crybabies that keep declaring that Bron gets all the calls.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the lack of them - we're just refuting the standard whining about fouls with LeBron.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 11:05 AM
It's the same reason people see the Nazis as evil. Sure... the Nazi party has been extinct since WWII and hasn't done anything evil lately, but that time when they were doing evil stuff is all anybody remembers.

Uh ... ?

FlashBolt
05-05-2016, 12:35 PM
So if the flagrant is not called but a regular foul like in the video happens instead does that mean he gets those calls or not?

This is why I'm interested how the information was gathered and even how criteria like above is counted.

This has nothing to do with flagrant fouls. LeBron has had flagrant fouls called to his advantage. Lin has never had a flagrant foul called for his advantage. This has to do with common fouls. He's getting hit on the arm but never gets that call. He gets hit on the face and most likely, it'll be looked at for a potential flagrant.

ewing
05-05-2016, 11:45 PM
BTW, I think Chronz's entire argument was to shut down the crybabies that keep declaring that Bron gets all the calls.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the lack of them - we're just refuting the standard whining about fouls with LeBron.

that is fair.

ewing
05-05-2016, 11:47 PM
It's the same reason people see the Nazis as evil. Sure... the Nazi party has been extinct since WWII and hasn't done anything evil lately, but that time when they were doing evil stuff is all anybody remembers.

great post

DoMeFavors
05-06-2016, 12:24 AM
Lebron doesn't play soft defense, he will get up into the offensive player. And he sometimes picks up a foul in the first half but they wont call a second one. If they do call a second foul in first half its a huge surprise. This guy never is in foul trouble.
He also basically walks on every play he has the ball.

Chronz
05-06-2016, 03:17 AM
True. Maybe the same reasons he gets away with contact is similar to the reason he doesn't get the benefit on the other end.

prodigy
05-07-2016, 02:56 AM
Lebron doesn't play soft defense, he will get up into the offensive player. And he sometimes picks up a foul in the first half but they wont call a second one. If they do call a second foul in first half its a huge surprise. This guy never is in foul trouble.
He also basically walks on every play he has the ball.


But honestly, LeBron Doesn't foul much period. He does a great job of moving his feet and contesting without reaching. Not to mention for most the game he's put on weaker Offensive players so he has more energy for Offense.