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View Full Version : NBA admits to missing foul on Ginobili (UPDATED: Post#31)



Wade n Fade
05-03-2016, 12:09 AM
Looks like the refs made the biggest mistake of the playoffs off a Dion Waiters attempted in bounds play. How can they miss that?

rocket
05-03-2016, 12:21 AM
that was hilarious from many standpoints lol

still1ballin
05-03-2016, 12:22 AM
I think Danny green also fouled Durant after the ball was inbounded as well.

rocket
05-03-2016, 12:24 AM
I think Danny green also fouled Durant after the ball was inbounded as well.

that play would've been irrelevant.

should've been a free throw and Spurs ball

CHANGO
05-03-2016, 12:37 AM
Just the refs not having the balls to make a call at the last seconds of the game. Never gonna change. Sad but true.

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 12:38 AM
Our slow start cost us the game. Too many missed shots and a 1 man show with LMA.

They not only missed that foul, but I saw waiters jump on the Inbounds which is also against the rules. To miss that with an official right there is frustrating, but they played crappy all night sans Aldridge...

I expect game 3 to be played at a far higher level

numba1CHANGsta
05-03-2016, 12:38 AM
Deal with it :cool:

Wade n Fade
05-03-2016, 12:47 AM
Our slow start cost us the game. Too many missed shots and a 1 man show with LMA.

They not only missed that foul, but I saw waiters jump on the Inbounds which is also against the rules. To miss that with an official right there is frustrating, but they played crappy all night sans Aldridge...

I expect game 3 to be played at a far higher level

Sucks that LA had his best post season game possibly yet lose. He literally made play after play in the last several minutes of that game. That crazy pass from TP to LA was epic. OKC might survive to a game 6, but the Spurs will win this series without issue.

More-Than-Most
05-03-2016, 12:57 AM
Let the players decide the games bro.. I said it 400 times and I will say it again... if its a foul its a ****ing foul and nomatter if its the first possession or the very last blow the ****ing whistle. This just cost the spurs the game... congrats refs.

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 01:09 AM
LaMarcus got fouled too off the Patty missed 3. Held his jersey haha... just an absolute mess there

numba1CHANGsta
05-03-2016, 01:26 AM
LaMarcus got fouled too off the Patty missed 3. Held his jersey haha... just an absolute mess there

And what about that fan who held Adam's arm down so he couldn't get back in time to help?

WaDe03
05-03-2016, 01:39 AM
Refs have no effect on the game at all.

JasonJohnHorn
05-03-2016, 01:44 AM
Manu stepped out of bounds on that play.


I hate this 'last second missed called' complaints lately. I understand the frustration, but there are missed calls throughout the game on both sides and they all impact the game equally.

The reason the Spurs lost is because they didn't rebound the ball as well as OKC, and they didn't shoot as well.

The officials did put the Thunder on the line more, and I suspect that the league would rather the Thunder of the Warriors be in the finals against the Cavs, so I expect the officiating to favour OKC, which sucks, but the bottom line is if the Spurs rebounded better, and hit their shots, this would have been a 10-15 point win for them.

LMA played great, but Duncan, Parker, and Green were 7/28, and they were outrebounded 37-48. Focusing on a questionable call only distracts from the issue.

I'm pulling for the Spurs, but even so.... you gotta let this go and focus on the things you can address to win. The official missed Manu stepping out, and missed Waiters pushing off in response. Those calls cancel each other out.

I know people are going on about other contact after that play, but nothing looked worth calling to me. When two guys go up for the ball at the same time beside each other, as happened when the ball wa lobbed inbounds, both players are making contact with each other in pursuit of the ball. No call need unless one guy is shoving the other.


Fans, coaches, and players should focus on basketball and only worry about the officiating if there is a clear pattern of an issue they are consistently not addressing. That said, the Spurs have gotten screwed by officials a lot in the past; they are just so good they've still managed 5 titles. I remember when they went up 2-0 on LAL and then the officials just seemed to put a stop to that. It was frustrating then, but this seemed like a legit mistake and given the Manu was out of bounds... it didn't really impact the game.

mrblisterdundee
05-03-2016, 01:45 AM
There was contact, but Ginobili also had a hand in selling it. Let's not forget who came before Harden.

aman_13
05-03-2016, 01:59 AM
Waiters should of passed it to Westbrook as he was curling.

nastynice
05-03-2016, 02:00 AM
Wierd ending. The guy a couple posts up is right tho, ginobli DID step out of bounds. I'm assuming that's a foul, I don't know, just pointing it out.

FlashBolt
05-03-2016, 02:02 AM
Manu stepped out of bounds on that play.


I hate this 'last second missed called' complaints lately. I understand the frustration, but there are missed calls throughout the game on both sides and they all impact the game equally.

The reason the Spurs lost is because they didn't rebound the ball as well as OKC, and they didn't shoot as well.

The officials did put the Thunder on the line more, and I suspect that the league would rather the Thunder of the Warriors be in the finals against the Cavs, so I expect the officiating to favour OKC, which sucks, but the bottom line is if the Spurs rebounded better, and hit their shots, this would have been a 10-15 point win for them.

LMA played great, but Duncan, Parker, and Green were 7/28, and they were outrebounded 37-48. Focusing on a questionable call only distracts from the issue.

I'm pulling for the Spurs, but even so.... you gotta let this go and focus on the things you can address to win. The official missed Manu stepping out, and missed Waiters pushing off in response. Those calls cancel each other out.

I know people are going on about other contact after that play, but nothing looked worth calling to me. When two guys go up for the ball at the same time beside each other, as happened when the ball wa lobbed inbounds, both players are making contact with each other in pursuit of the ball. No call need unless one guy is shoving the other.


Fans, coaches, and players should focus on basketball and only worry about the officiating if there is a clear pattern of an issue they are consistently not addressing. That said, the Spurs have gotten screwed by officials a lot in the past; they are just so good they've still managed 5 titles. I remember when they went up 2-0 on LAL and then the officials just seemed to put a stop to that. It was frustrating then, but this seemed like a legit mistake and given the Manu was out of bounds... it didn't really impact the game.

Amen brotha. Fans get way too emotional/personal when it happens to their respective teams but there were TWO calls missed. And not every call goes unmissed. It feels as if people want refs to see every little play that goes on. I'm sorry but it's impossible for three refs to track ten guys (each with two arms/legs), so a total of 40 different body parts that are heavily used... all while they are moving. Plus, inbound calls are rarely called because it's usually a five second violation and that's that. You NEVER see an inbounder foul an inbound defender. I'm sure that has a lot to do with why the refs didn't see that.

FlashBolt
05-03-2016, 02:02 AM
Wierd ending. The guy a couple posts up is right tho, ginobli DID step out of bounds. I'm assuming that's a foul, I don't know, just pointing it out.

Not a foul but it would have been a 1 shot penalty I think. Just like a defensive three second. Which to me, would have been worse for the Spurs. At the end of the day, the Spurs got the ball and messed up big time there. Spurs got fouled but OKC didn't get that 1 FT and another shot to inbound the ball. Spurs didn't lose because of that.. IDK what these people were watching. They lost because they couldn't hit that last shot.

More-Than-Most
05-03-2016, 02:04 AM
Post game said something interesting... because the foul was before the play they can 100 percent protest this and the NBA can over turn it.. they have before.

FlashBolt
05-03-2016, 02:06 AM
Post game said something interesting... because the foul was before the play they can 100 percent protest this and the NBA can over turn it.. they have before.

So OKC should protest that Manu was stepping on the line as well? I'm not sure what there is to protest.

nastynice
05-03-2016, 02:09 AM
So according to this

http://www.livestrong.com/article/141805-basketball-inbound-rules/

Says if defender reaches over the line, they first get a warning, and if it happens again then it's a technical foul.

Such an odd play, never seen that before, lol

FlashBolt
05-03-2016, 02:12 AM
So according to this

http://www.livestrong.com/article/141805-basketball-inbound-rules/

Says if defender reaches over the line, they first get a warning, and if it happens again then it's a technical foul.

Such an odd play, never seen that before, lol

So Manu got too close and Waiters elbowed him. According to the rules (which everyone is bickering about profusely), Manu would have gotten a warning and he wouldn't be as close, thus, no elbow. Just being fair here. It still worked out for the Spurs -- they just missed the shot(s).

naps
05-03-2016, 05:21 AM
And I, for one, happened to think it was already a 5 sec violation.

ewing
05-03-2016, 05:57 AM
And what about that fan who held Adam's arm down so he couldn't get back in time to help?

gamesmanship

warfelg
05-03-2016, 08:06 AM
And I, for one, happened to think it was already a 5 sec violation.

Kinda my thought.

But man that ending was a calamity of a cluster ****.

JasonJohnHorn
05-03-2016, 08:16 AM
And I, for one, happened to think it was already a 5 sec violation.


Watch this clip:
https://streamable.com/4nl4

It starts just after the official blows the whistle, but you can see the official beside Waiter throwing his arm out for a five count. He gets to four and Waiters has it off. That's the best you can hope for. A rough 5-count. Officials won't be able to count exactly five seconds, but that seemed like a sincere count. No faulting the officials for that.

warfelg
05-03-2016, 08:19 AM
Watch this clip:
https://streamable.com/4nl4

It starts just after the official blows the whistle, but you can see the official beside Waiter throwing his arm out for a five count. He gets to four and Waiters has it off. That's the best you can hope for. A rough 5-count. Officials won't be able to count exactly five seconds, but that seemed like a sincere count. No faulting the officials for that.

My only issue is not every 5-count is the same.

I wish the NBA would do what all levels of lacrosse does now:
Refs wear a device that counts for them beeping/vibrating on the second. On the advance time (30 sec in lax), they don't do arm movements until the final 10.

NBA could easily get these and tell the refs to use it for better timing.

Slug3
05-03-2016, 09:15 AM
So Manu got too close and Waiters elbowed him. According to the rules (which everyone is bickering about profusely), Manu would have gotten a warning and he wouldn't be as close, thus, no elbow. Just being fair here. It still worked out for the Spurs -- they just missed the shot(s).

I mean Manu did step out and step back in, so he wasn't standing out of bounds when he got elbowed. That was just an all around weird play.

But the Spurs got the steal and got away with one as well on Durant and just couldn't get a good play.

Tony_Starks
05-03-2016, 09:24 AM
I didn't object to it because they didn't call ANYTHING. Not Manu stepping over, not the Waiters bow, not KD getting fouled as he caught it, not the scrum underneath as LMA rebounded....

They basically just swallowed the whistle that whole series, fine by me.

C-Webb was going ape sh... tho. Probably had a Kings vs Lakers flashback

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 10:13 AM
once manu stepped over the line the play should have been dead... everything after that is irrelevant...

people need to get a reality check... SA lost that game a lot earlier than the last play

mrblisterdundee
05-03-2016, 10:33 AM
NBA officiating Crew Chief Ken Mauer admitted to missing the foul (http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/fran_blinebury/05/03/spurs-thunder-missed-call-game-1/index.html) by Dion Waiters on Manu Ginobili at the end of the second game. Kenny Smith said the Spurs should protest the game. Mauer admitted the oversight in an interview after the game:

"On the floor, we did not see a foul on the play," Mauer said. "However, upon review we realize and we agree that we should have had an offensive foul on the play. It's a play that we have never seen before, ever, but we feel we should have had an offensive foul on Waiters."
Ginobili seemed to minimize the effect of that foul:

"I don't know what it is, what type of violation it is," Ginobili said. "It has got to be something. But it's not that play that decided anything. Because we got the steal, we got a shot, we got an offensive rebound."

Tony_Starks
05-03-2016, 10:39 AM
Skip Bayless is going to have a heart attack on live tv...

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 10:53 AM
Doesn't mean squat... That didn't determine the game. Yes you want stuff called, but it shouldn't have come to that. We played terribly outside of LMA, OKC played great, lost by 1... That's how it goes sometimes... Not looking to re-invent the wheel Friday, just make the shots you're supposed to and they'll be in a better position to win

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 11:02 AM
why would they talk about that and not Manu stepping on the line and being over the line with his arms...

NBA is an absolute joke on how they handle this ****

Hawkeye15
05-03-2016, 11:15 AM
boy who cried wolf situation there. Manu has made a career of winning Academy Awards trying to draw fouls.

What a weird play all around though.

alkalinesolo
05-03-2016, 11:20 AM
boy who cried wolf situation there. Manu has made a career of winning Academy Awards trying to draw fouls.

What a weird play all around though.

I'm totally ok with this being the consequence for known floppers too. If you flop around your entire career like you just got shot whenever you drive to the lane then sometimes you're not going to get a real foul when it happens.

Being a basketball ref is really hard, **** people like Ginobili who have made a career out of trying to make them make the wrong call.

KnicksorBust
05-03-2016, 11:24 AM
"I don't know what it is, what type of violation it is," Ginobili said. "It has got to be something. But it's not that play that decided anything. Because we got the steal, we got a shot, we got an offensive rebound."

:clap: Media will LOVE to run with this story today. Glad Manu is squashing it. Probably will only last one news cycle since they got the steal anyway.

Slug3
05-03-2016, 11:25 AM
Doesn't mean squat... That didn't determine the game. Yes you want stuff called, but it shouldn't have come to that. We played terribly outside of LMA, OKC played great, lost by 1... That's how it goes sometimes... Not looking to re-invent the wheel Friday, just make the shots you're supposed to and they'll be in a better position to win

Doesnt the NBA have a rue that if something happens on a dead ball that is crucial they could over turn it or make them replay the final seconds as if the call was made? I doubt that happens, but I do remember years ago I think Miami was playing the Hawks and they screwed up and gave Shaq and extra foul and fouled him out with like a minutes left to play in a close game. The NBA made the Heat/Hawks play the final minute over again before their next game. Miami still lost, lol.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2016, 11:30 AM
I'm totally ok with this being the consequence for known floppers too. If you flop around your entire career like you just got shot whenever you drive to the lane then sometimes you're not going to get a real foul when it happens.

Being a basketball ref is really hard, **** people like Ginobili who have made a career out of trying to make them make the wrong call.

You would have thought Bruce Lee was guarding him most of his career

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 11:43 AM
Doesnt the NBA have a rue that if something happens on a dead ball that is crucial they could over turn it or make them replay the final seconds as if the call was made? I doubt that happens, but I do remember years ago I think Miami was playing the Hawks and they screwed up and gave Shaq and extra foul and fouled him out with like a minutes left to play in a close game. The NBA made the Heat/Hawks play the final minute over again before their next game. Miami still lost, lol.

I remember that! That was insane lol. But I doubt it happens and honestly I'm not too familiar with that rule. It'd be crazy to happen in a playoff game though.

KnicksorBust
05-03-2016, 11:48 AM
I remember that! That was insane lol. But I doubt it happens and honestly I'm not too familiar with that rule. It'd be crazy to happen in a playoff game though.

Would you be in favor of it? Isn't the most important thing that they get the call right?

IndyRealist
05-03-2016, 11:52 AM
There was a game where the refs had failed to award free throws to the team playing the Pacers, the Pacers came down and scored, and the refs RESET THE CLOCK back to the foul and negated the basket. Everyone was stunned. Not the same situation, but some weird sh** happens in the NBA.

Scoots
05-03-2016, 11:54 AM
Why do we need a 2nd thread on this?

Every foul should be called. The Warriors lost a game to the Rockets on an offensive foul forearm to the chest. Come back and win the next game.

Was it bad? Yes. Was it a difference maker in the game? Yes. Should it have been? Probably not. The Spurs were cold, disjointed, and made a lot of un-Spurs mistakes to get to that point.

There will always be blown calls and the ones at the beginning of the game matter too, it's just that the ones at the end of close games hurt more.

Next.

Scoots
05-03-2016, 12:01 PM
once manu stepped over the line the play should have been dead... everything after that is irrelevant...

people need to get a reality check... SA lost that game a lot earlier than the last play

Stepping out is a warning, then a delay of game. But I agree that SA should have done more earlier in the game to keep it out of the officials hands.

The problem I have with the logic of the game was lost in other places than the last play ... if the two best teams in NBA history are pulling through a time machine and play the 6 greatest games of basketball ever and are in the last seconds of the 7th game which was even better ... 6 games and 47:50 of PERFECT basketball ... and then the ref blows the call and one team wins. Is ANYBODY satisfied?

The plays need to be called right. I have no idea how to do it, but the hit rate needs to go up.

Snakeyestx
05-03-2016, 12:04 PM
Chris Webber called it the "Best officials in professional sports" but they're clearly doing the worst job in professional sports. They HAVE REPLAYS and yet they didn't even go check them. Anything questionably controversial should be looked at rather than blowing a call and admitting it the day after, which seems to be a HUGELY recurring issue this season.

alkalinesolo
05-03-2016, 12:07 PM
Would you be in favor of it? Isn't the most important thing that they get the call right?



I totally disagree with this mindset. The most important thing is that the game of basketball entertains me...having ten breaks in the action for 2 minutes during the final stretch of a game is the opposite of entertaining - and going back to replay a game after it's already been decided isn't entertaining either.

I hate this new mantra in all sports "Do whatever you take to get the call right" is really ruining the flow of the game for me, especially in baseball and basketball. I'm sick of it...the refs make mistakes, THAT'S FINE! The players make mistakes too. Lets just get on with the game and then we can all complain about the refs next to the water cooler the next morning.

Scoots
05-03-2016, 12:10 PM
Chris Webber called it the "Best officials in professional sports" but they're clearly doing the worst job in professional sports. They HAVE REPLAYS and yet they didn't even go check them. Anything questionably controversial should be looked at rather than blowing a call and admitting it the day after, which seems to be a HUGELY recurring issue this season.

Just like the NFL, MLB, and NHL ... the replays are only for certain things. They can't go to the replay for everything.

And the NBA refs are REALLY good ... it's just that they are outmatched by the size and speed of the guys playing the game. The first thing the NBA should do is add a 4th ref and make it so 2 refs run from one baseline to the 1/3 court line on the other end and the other pair run from 1/3 court to the opposite baseline so that there are always 4 refs around play, they have less distance to cover, there are 33% more eyes to see,33% more angles to see from, and crucially they can add 33% specific keys officials can look at for fouls.

To some extent I wonder if the Warriors games get worse officiating because the refs have to respond faster and are thus more often a greater distance from the play because the ball is moving so fast. Well, that's the way the game is going right now. More pace, more space, more quick decisions and fast ball and man movement. Now is the time to add a ref.

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 12:14 PM
Would you be in favor of it? Isn't the most important thing that they get the call right?

Get the call right? If they want to get the call right it is a dead ball before that all happened due to Manu stepping on the line...

If you are going to do a redo ... then Oklahoma gets the ball out of bounds

gaughan333
05-03-2016, 12:14 PM
I totally disagree with this mindset. The most important thing is that the game of basketball entertains me...having ten breaks in the action for 2 minutes during the final stretch of a game is the opposite of entertaining - and going back to replay a game after it's already been decided isn't entertaining either.

I hate this new mantra in all sports "Do whatever you take to get the call right" is really ruining the flow of the game for me, especially in baseball and basketball. I'm sick of it...the refs make mistakes, THAT'S FINE! The players make mistakes too. Lets just get on with the game and then we can all complain about the refs next to the water cooler the next morning.

I disagree with you 100% Especially in a playoff game.

I can understand some restraint on the time taken for a replay, for example if you can't tell a difference in something like 30 seconds, call stands (mostly for baseball).

It'd be interesting to see a poll of the general viewership of each sport to see how people feel on this issue

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 12:19 PM
Stepping out is a warning, then a delay of game. But I agree that SA should have done more earlier in the game to keep it out of the officials hands.

The problem I have with the logic of the game was lost in other places than the last play ... if the two best teams in NBA history are pulling through a time machine and play the 6 greatest games of basketball ever and are in the last seconds of the 7th game which was even better ... 6 games and 47:50 of PERFECT basketball ... and then the ref blows the call and one team wins. Is ANYBODY satisfied?

The plays need to be called right. I have no idea how to do it, but the hit rate needs to go up.

yes... and both instances create a dead ball.... the play that happened would never have happened the way it did if the officials had stopped and warned manu...

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 12:27 PM
Would you be in favor of it? Isn't the most important thing that they get the call right?

Nah. I'd rather the team (minus Aldridge of course) have 3 days to think about how their ****** play cost us this game. It'll give them a reason to come out sharper and focused Friday

Scoots
05-03-2016, 12:43 PM
yes... and both instances create a dead ball.... the play that happened would never have happened the way it did if the officials had stopped and warned manu...

But then the ball would have still been in Waiters hands and he may have still leaned in and pushed Manu away anyhow. We can't know what would happen which is why all this post game hand wringing is ultimately pointless.

FlashBolt
05-03-2016, 12:44 PM
I mean Manu did step out and step back in, so he wasn't standing out of bounds when he got elbowed. That was just an all around weird play.

But the Spurs got the steal and got away with one as well on Durant and just couldn't get a good play.

That doesn't matter. That's like saying if someone had possession and they went over the halfcourt, there shouldn't be anything called because he stepped right out of it a few seconds later. The mere fact is Manu should have been called, there would have been a delay, Manu probably wouldn't have been close and we would have been able to inbound the ball more properly. BTW, it's not just that Manu play. If you watch the replay, Mills is grabbing onto Adam's jersey before the elbow occurs. It's not fair for many of PSD to defend the Spurs for a missed call when we didn't get any our way as well. Besides... Spurs had the ball. They got what they wanted and missed the shot. Good job by Adams defending every spot on the floor in that final play.

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 01:02 PM
But then the ball would have still been in Waiters hands and he may have still leaned in and pushed Manu away anyhow. We can't know what would happen which is why all this post game hand wringing is ultimately pointless.

what? the play would be totally different ... okc probably calls a time out and puts another guy out there. Manu wouldn't be able to be as aggressive... etc....

My point was there is no point to rehashing this unless you are going to the point where the first OBVIOUS infraction occurred....

kdspurman
05-03-2016, 01:19 PM
what? the play would be totally different ... okc probably calls a time out and puts another guy out there. Manu wouldn't be able to be as aggressive... etc....

My point was there is no point to rehashing this unless you are going to the point where the first OBVIOUS infraction occurred....

Okc had no more timeouts at that point. Which is probably why waiters pushed off And jumped on his Inbounds pass which is also not allowed lol.

A delay of game would've given them a fresh 5 seconds though.. weird things happen sometimes.. just how it goes

Scoots
05-03-2016, 01:43 PM
what? the play would be totally different ... okc probably calls a time out and puts another guy out there. Manu wouldn't be able to be as aggressive... etc....

My point was there is no point to rehashing this unless you are going to the point where the first OBVIOUS infraction occurred....

My point was that you don't know what would happen with a reset and maybe Waiters throws another forearm. You just can't know, so it's pointless.

Vinylman
05-03-2016, 01:53 PM
Okc had no more timeouts at that point. Which is probably why waiters pushed off And jumped on his Inbounds pass which is also not allowed lol.

A delay of game would've given them a fresh 5 seconds though.. weird things happen sometimes.. just how it goes

whatever... you seem to be missing the point.... the play stops with the Manu infraction... everything after it is speculation which is why this whole discussion is moot

Scoots
05-03-2016, 02:01 PM
whatever... you seem to be missing the point.... the play stops with the Manu infraction... everything after it is speculation which is why this whole discussion is moot

I'm saying it's pointless, you are saying it's moot and yet we keep talking :)

ewing
05-03-2016, 02:03 PM
I totally disagree with this mindset. The most important thing is that the game of basketball entertains me...having ten breaks in the action for 2 minutes during the final stretch of a game is the opposite of entertaining - and going back to replay a game after it's already been decided isn't entertaining either.

I hate this new mantra in all sports "Do whatever you take to get the call right" is really ruining the flow of the game for me, especially in baseball and basketball. I'm sick of it...the refs make mistakes, THAT'S FINE! The players make mistakes too. Lets just get on with the game and then we can all complain about the refs next to the water cooler the next morning.

Bravo!