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JasonJohnHorn
05-01-2016, 06:27 PM
This is perhaps a little less impressive given how many 3's he and Curry have been hitting all season, and frankly was fair to expect, but still.

His points, assists, rebounds and steals are up, and his percentages are looking amazing too.

How impressive has Klay been in the absence of Curry, and how is this going to impact how the rest of the league views him?

Scoots
05-01-2016, 07:13 PM
This is perhaps a little less impressive given how many 3's he and Curry have been hitting all season, and frankly was fair to expect, but still.

His points, assists, rebounds and steals are up, and his percentages are looking amazing too.

How impressive has Klay been in the absence of Curry, and how is this going to impact how the rest of the league views him?

I think the league was already impressed with him, but I think it will help the fans understand how valuable he is. And don't forget to look at what he's done on defense in those games too. He isn't flashy, he's not asked to move the ball that much, but he's a darn good player and deserves his all-star nods.

IndyRealist
05-01-2016, 07:30 PM
In before he's called a system player.

Like I said before, it's diminishing returns. They have so many good players that guys have to give up some production to accommodate everyone. With their star going down, everyone else has room to go 100%. Are they better with Curry? Of course. But these guys aren't maxed out by a long shot.

Bruno
05-01-2016, 07:46 PM
Could the Warriors win more games without Steph than the '94 Bulls won without MJ? I think they'd be a lock for 55 wins.

More-Than-Most
05-01-2016, 08:16 PM
clearly they dont have the best team ever and the notion that they could beat almost any team except the spurs without curry is silly :rolleyes:

Curry is great no doubt but he has the most help I have seen since a guy named Jordan.

without curry they still beat the cavs/thunder.

Shammyguy3
05-01-2016, 08:28 PM
Could the Warriors win more games without Steph than the '95 Bulls won without MJ? I think they'd be a lock for 55 wins.

The '94 Bulls won 55, the '95 won 47 (with Jordan playing 17 games); just for point of reference

IndyRealist
05-01-2016, 08:30 PM
Could the Warriors win more games without Steph than the '95 Bulls won without MJ? I think they'd be a lock for 55 wins.

The concensus seems to be that they'd be mid to high 40's, which is insane.

Phantom Dreamer
05-01-2016, 08:35 PM
Could the Warriors win more games without Steph than the '95 Bulls won without MJ? I think they'd be a lock for 55 wins.The 1993-94 Bulls went 55-27. Before Jordan returned, the 1994-95 Bulls were 34-31. Both teams were eliminated in the 2nd round.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 08:41 PM
Why is it that every other thread has to be about the MJ, Kobe, or LeBron? Isn't this a thread about 2016 playoffs Golden State Warrior Klay Thompson?

Chronz
05-01-2016, 08:46 PM
In before he's called a system player.

Like I said before, it's diminishing returns. They have so many good players that guys have to give up some production to accommodate everyone. With their star going down, everyone else has room to go 100%. Are they better with Curry? Of course. But these guys aren't maxed out by a long shot.
Can't cosign this enough. It's almost a maddening narrative that the Spurs and Dubs happen to be the two teams that maximize their teams instead of being soo Damn talented

Chronz
05-01-2016, 08:52 PM
The concensus seems to be that they'd be mid to high 40's, which is insane.
You're starting to turn me around on that

blahblahyoutoo
05-01-2016, 08:56 PM
he's been on lately, he's still too streaky and inconsistent imo.

lol, please
05-01-2016, 08:58 PM
This is perhaps a little less impressive given how many 3's he and Curry have been hitting all season, and frankly was fair to expect, but still.

His points, assists, rebounds and steals are up, and his percentages are looking amazing too.

How impressive has Klay been in the absence of Curry, and how is this going to impact how the rest of the league views him?

"only a shooter doe"

"always open cause Curry draws defenders doe"

:rolleyes:

Scoots
05-01-2016, 09:15 PM
he's been on lately, he's still too streaky and inconsistent imo.

I agree, though he's also encouraged to find his spots to fit ... when nobody is trying to take those shots for him he always steps up. He is a little too passive, but if he was much more aggressive I don't know that it would work as well if that makes sense.

The one thing he can always do better is rebound ... but then again Marv said the Warriors were already the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA so maybe he can't do more there either.

ewing
05-01-2016, 09:29 PM
he's really good.

Chronz
05-01-2016, 09:36 PM
he's really good.
So is the team he's on. And that's with them missing another really good player

Scoots
05-01-2016, 10:00 PM
So is the team he's on. And that's with them missing another really good player

Yep. Myers, West, and Lacob have found pieces that fit perfectly and pieces that can mold themselves to fit perfectly and fill in where other players have weaknesses. It's a fragile balance, but it's worked really well for the last 2 years.

ewing
05-01-2016, 10:08 PM
So is the team he's on. And that's with them missing another really good player

yeah but Klay is really good

da ThRONe
05-01-2016, 10:25 PM
Between Steph and Draymond both taking big step forward people forgot just how good Klay really is. You have to have him in the discussion as the best player at his position.

JasonJohnHorn
05-01-2016, 10:57 PM
Between Steph and Draymond both taking big step forward people forgot just how good Klay really is. You have to have him in the discussion as the best player at his position.

I don't think there is a shooting guard in the league I would rather have as my starting shooting guard. I'm not sure who else you could put there. Harden? His defense is not nearly as good, he causes more turnovers, and he's not as efficient a scorer. Wade? Great player, but not where he was 4 or 5 years ago. He's certainly better than DMDR.

The only guy I'd put in the conversation I guess is Butler (but I'm still use to him as a SF). He's a better rebounded and play maker at this point, but not nearly as good a scorer. I'd take Klay over him if I had a play maker, but I might take Butler over Klay is I needed a secondary ball-handler.


But yeah... that said... I think if you swap out any starting SG in the league with Klay, that team gets better.

Love Gordon Haywood as well. That guys a killer.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 11:07 PM
I don't think there is a shooting guard in the league I would rather have as my starting shooting guard. I'm not sure who else you could put there. Harden? His defense is not nearly as good, he causes more turnovers, and he's not as efficient a scorer. Wade? Great player, but not where he was 4 or 5 years ago. He's certainly better than DMDR.

The only guy I'd put in the conversation I guess is Butler (but I'm still use to him as a SF). He's a better rebounded and play maker at this point, but not nearly as good a scorer. I'd take Klay over him if I had a play maker, but I might take Butler over Klay is I needed a secondary ball-handler.


But yeah... that said... I think if you swap out any starting SG in the league with Klay, that team gets better.

Love Gordon Haywood as well. That guys a killer.

And the info about Butler being a cancer sort of hurts his stock.

I love Haywood as well, don't understand why he doesn't get the respect he deserves.

It certainly seems like we are in a lull at the position overall though, but that could just be because we went through Jordan, Wade, Bryant, Drexler, Iverson, Allen, and Miller and this current group doesn't seem to match up.

TrueFan420
05-01-2016, 11:13 PM
Why is it that every other thread has to be about the MJ, Kobe, or LeBron? Isn't this a thread about 2016 playoffs Golden State Warrior Klay Thompson?

Second that motion.

lol, please
05-01-2016, 11:19 PM
I don't think there is a shooting guard in the league I would rather have as my starting shooting guard. I'm not sure who else you could put there. Harden? His defense is not nearly as good, he causes more turnovers, and he's not as efficient a scorer. Wade? Great player, but not where he was 4 or 5 years ago. He's certainly better than DMDR.

The only guy I'd put in the conversation I guess is Butler (but I'm still use to him as a SF). He's a better rebounded and play maker at this point, but not nearly as good a scorer. I'd take Klay over him if I had a play maker, but I might take Butler over Klay is I needed a secondary ball-handler.


But yeah... that said... I think if you swap out any starting SG in the league with Klay, that team gets better.

Love Gordon Haywood as well. That guys a killer.

Man, where were you in these threads when I needed you!

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?903098-Harden-Responds-to-Klay-quot-People-are-just-going-to-talk-quot

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?902663-King-Klay-Thompson-quot-I-am-the-best-SG-in-the-league!-quot

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?902104-Which-of-These-Two-Players-is-was-a-Better-3pt-Shooter

JasonJohnHorn
05-02-2016, 06:46 AM
Man, where were you in these threads when I needed you!

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?903098-Harden-Responds-to-Klay-quot-People-are-just-going-to-talk-quot

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?902663-King-Klay-Thompson-quot-I-am-the-best-SG-in-the-league!-quot

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?902104-Which-of-These-Two-Players-is-was-a-Better-3pt-Shooter

lol... sorry bro.

I've been advocating for Klay for a while. As a Pistons fan I was FURIOUS that Dumars picked Knight over Klay. That, to me, is Dumar's biggest mistake (I give him a pass on Darko because 3/4 of the league had him going second).

I had him in my top-five at SG in his sophomore seasons.

I respect Harden's all-around game, but he has so many deficiencies in his game, you just can't compare him to Klay.

JasonJohnHorn
05-02-2016, 07:06 AM
And the info about Butler being a cancer sort of hurts his stock.

I love Haywood as well, don't understand why he doesn't get the respect he deserves.

It certainly seems like we are in a lull at the position overall though, but that could just be because we went through Jordan, Wade, Bryant, Drexler, Iverson, Allen, and Miller and this current group doesn't seem to match up.

I think the reasons for that is because there are so many shooters at the PF and SF positions now, they are taking the shots away from SGs. But yeah, there are no young SGs in the league right now who give me the impressive he has the potential to rank in the top-five at SG. Obviously Wade, but he's on the tail end of his career (which isn't to say he doesn't have another 5-7 years- just that they won't be peak). The only other guy I can think of that could pull it off is Klay.

You are spot on. We were spoiled. I mean, in the 90's you had Jordan, Drexler, Richmond, Sprewell, Miller, and then later Allen and Kobe who carried the league in the 00's where the league saw Wade enter.

Right now the best guards like like Haywood, Butler, Klay, Harden and Wade, with Beal bout ready to enter the top five with a healthy seasons, and DM;DR sitting on the outside of that group. You put that up against Jordan, Drexler, Richmond, Miller and Sprewell.... the throw in Drazen and Ron Harper.... that group is getting killed. Though there are more snipers in the league now.

DboneG
05-02-2016, 07:22 AM
Really!! Wow!! Who cares! All this guy do is shoot 3's, so, it comes with the territory. Klay is basically, a system guy. If Klay went somewhere else and had to be "The Man" ...he would suck.
I can't take anything away from him...he's a very good ballplayer. Leave it at that, stop holding his jock!

IndyRealist
05-02-2016, 08:13 AM
Perhaps he doesn't get respect bc his name is Hayward, not Haywood.

He's in a small market and his team isn't great, and he's white.

IndyRealist
05-02-2016, 08:20 AM
The problem with SG in general is that it's an afterthought position. It's filled with players who are too slow or don't have the skills to play point, and guys who are too small to play forward. Before the advent of the stretch 4, PF was the same way. They were basically small centers. Now it's more of it's own position, but SG hasn't really distinguished itself from PG and SF since the 90s.

Munkeysuit
05-02-2016, 08:29 AM
Klay Thompson is a hell of a player but boring to watch, I honestly couldn't care less if he made 10 3 pointers in 10 consecutive games, he's definitely a yawner.

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 09:10 AM
Pretty sick.

Two of those games were against Haren tho, you could trot Jerry Stackhouse out there right now and he'd give Haren about 4 threes. Lol

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 09:29 AM
In before he's called a system player.

Like I said before, it's diminishing returns. They have so many good players that guys have to give up some production to accommodate everyone. With their star going down, everyone else has room to go 100%. Are they better with Curry? Of course. But these guys aren't maxed out by a long shot.

exactly. GS is by far and away the most talented team in the league.

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 09:30 AM
Could the Warriors win more games without Steph than the '95 Bulls won without MJ? I think they'd be a lock for 55 wins.

Minus Steph they would win 55+ no doubt. Steph is an offensive machine, but by no means is he worth 18 more wins by himself to this team. Now, would he be worth 18-20 wins with a much lesser team? Probably.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 10:22 AM
The problem with SG in general is that it's an afterthought position. It's filled with players who are too slow or don't have the skills to play point, and guys who are too small to play forward. Before the advent of the stretch 4, PF was the same way. They were basically small centers. Now it's more of it's own position, but SG hasn't really distinguished itself from PG and SF since the 90s.

I also think that body size/type is in big demand in other sports too so kids are getting chances elsewhere too which dilutes the position a little more too.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 10:24 AM
exactly. GS is by far and away the most talented team in the league.

In the last off-season we had a thread about the team with the best depth. The Warriors didn't win ... I don't know that they finished in the top 3. I honestly think the Warriors depth, more than being great talents, just work together really well which makes them look better than their parts.

Heediot
05-02-2016, 10:30 AM
Between Steph and Draymond both taking big step forward people forgot just how good Klay really is. You have to have him in the discussion as the best player at his position.

He has a good argument depending on the structure of the team. On a team coached by the Spurs, Hawks, Warriors, i'll take him over Harden. But if I need a guy to be a focal point, create shots, and break down defenses, which true #1 guys should be able to do I would take Harden.

Him and Barnes are in a perfect system for their skill sets. They are both average ball (possible even below) ball handlers. They are only asked to dribble drive here and there but never asked to really break a guy down. They use the 3 point shot as a threat to create driving lanes. If you asked these guys to consistently handle the rock and create like say a Paul George they would not be able to do it IMO. Draymon's ball handling and play making has helped cover up some of what was missing when Curry got injured.

What may tip the scale with him vs. Harden is his defense as well. He is miles ahead of Harden.

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 10:52 AM
In the last off-season we had a thread about the team with the best depth. The Warriors didn't win ... I don't know that they finished in the top 3. I honestly think the Warriors depth, more than being great talents, just work together really well which makes them look better than their parts.

partly. But when you have the luxury of having Their bench, and the elite level talent at a few positions in the starting lineup, you are blessed.

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 10:55 AM
In the last off-season we had a thread about the team with the best depth. The Warriors didn't win ... I don't know that they finished in the top 3. I honestly think the Warriors depth, more than being great talents, just work together really well which makes them look better than their parts.

That's the part that people still don't seem to get. Strictly from a depth standpoint the Rockets for example are one of the deepest teams in the league, which is why Ty Lawson was supposedly going to put them over the top. We saw how that played out.

The Clippers added Smith, Lance Stevenson, and Pierce to the bench which on paper had people this summer saying they were one of the deepest teams in the league.

Depth is one thing, the pieces fitting and everyone buying in, actually playing hard, and playing their role is another.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 10:58 AM
yeah but Klay is really good

You might say hes really, very good.

ewing
05-02-2016, 11:11 AM
You might say hes really, very good.

I would

Chronz
05-02-2016, 11:14 AM
In the last off-season we had a thread about the team with the best depth. The Warriors didn't win ... I don't know that they finished in the top 3. I honestly think the Warriors depth, more than being great talents, just work together really well which makes them look better than their parts.

I really dont even think they work that well together, like if you got all the bench only units and played them against each other, I dont think GS separates itself too much, Ill look into the numbers but I find it hard to believe a team that struggled whenever Steph/Green weren't on the floor somehow has a bench unit that works that well together.

I honestly dont know but it wouldn't surprise me to see them just in the top 5 of bench differentials overall, what makes your bench special tho is their ability to plug in and play with the other starters depending on the matchup. The pure talent of your team is incredible, I mean your 6th man won FMVP, that literally NEVER happens. The maximizing spiel is exactly what the post Hawkeye was responding to. You're really not maximizing those guy, they dont look better than their parts, they are absolutely a result of those pieces. I mean, its for the best if you think about it. You have guys on your team capable of so much more but given their age or injury history, you can lessen their loads and extend their long term value.

Come to think about it, your team won 73 and thats with most of your guys playing limited minutes, if this were the 90's or 80's and teams played their best players alot longer, its possible you guys win even more for a shorter window. Random 2 cents

Chronz
05-02-2016, 11:15 AM
I would

You fell for the bait. You would be very wrong.

BTW if anyone gets a chance, listen to Drays podcast with Bill Simmons. Dude wont stop hitting his bong

Chronz
05-02-2016, 11:21 AM
That's the part that people still don't seem to get. Strictly from a depth standpoint the Rockets for example are one of the deepest teams in the league, which is why Ty Lawson was supposedly going to put them over the top. We saw how that played out.

The Clippers added Smith, Lance Stevenson, and Pierce to the bench which on paper had people this summer saying they were one of the deepest teams in the league.

Depth is one thing, the pieces fitting and everyone buying in, actually playing hard, and playing their role is another.

I really dont believe people when they talk about "on paper", its really just an excuse to make up any story they want. What if my paper differs from yours? Like on my paper, Ty isn't that talented and I truly think hes been done in by the booz and the natural decline that comes from being a midget that relies on speed. So how the **** are the Rox deep when they have to rely on their star player handling the most amount of minutes of anyone the past what, 3-4 years? Ive never seen a deep team have absolutely no viable option at PF, it was so bad at one point the Rockets had to play 2 centers together. And if your paper still has Josh Smith as a "talented player" then you need to update your paper game. Dude is done as a valuable contributor and even when we last saw him he was barely above average.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 11:39 AM
He has a good argument depending on the structure of the team. On a team coached by the Spurs, Hawks, Warriors, i'll take him over Harden. But if I need a guy to be a focal point, create shots, and break down defenses, which true #1 guys should be able to do I would take Harden.

Him and Barnes are in a perfect system for their skill sets. They are both average ball (possible even below) ball handlers. They are only asked to dribble drive here and there but never asked to really break a guy down. They use the 3 point shot as a threat to create driving lanes. If you asked these guys to consistently handle the rock and create like say a Paul George they would not be able to do it IMO. Draymon's ball handling and play making has helped cover up some of what was missing when Curry got injured.

What may tip the scale with him vs. Harden is his defense as well. He is miles ahead of Harden.

Yeah but some teams (The best ones IMO) create their system based on its best players, I would hope any team that takes Klay over Harden would play a style that suits him best and gives him the value necessary to offset the alternative. You dont really need someone to "create shots" when your movement off the ball or your threat with it, creates driving angles, easy offensive putbacks or other open shots without really needing to accrue high assists. Its like when I used to complain that Reggie wasn't a sexy 30PPG but when you're that efficient, your team can more than afford others getting those looks, his teams offense was elite mostly because of that talent.


And the other argument is that Harden used to be a player who didn't NEED to dominate the ball and in those settings his defense was actually a strong part of his game. So Harden CAN play defense, Harden USED to be a great set shooter, I truly think Harden is like Paul Pierce, waiting for the right moment to come so he can play more of a team game. Pierce had a few years where he was overdoing it with the off the bounce jumpers. He had the built in excuse that his team was trash (and they were) but it gave him too much freedom and stunted the growth of his squad so its like a double edged sword long term.

But Pierce cut that **** down within 2 years, he also never played defense this disinterestedly but Im starting to wonder that maybe the Rox need him to extend almost nothing on that end. Hard to blame him for his conditioning when he plays the minutes he does.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 11:52 AM
I really dont even think they work that well together, like if you got all the bench only units and played them against each other, I dont think GS separates itself too much, Ill look into the numbers but I find it hard to believe a team that struggled whenever Steph/Green weren't on the floor somehow has a bench unit that works that well together.

I honestly dont know but it wouldn't surprise me to see them just in the top 5 of bench differentials overall, what makes your bench special tho is their ability to plug in and play with the other starters depending on the matchup. The pure talent of your team is incredible, I mean your 6th man won FMVP, that literally NEVER happens. The maximizing spiel is exactly what the post Hawkeye was responding to. You're really not maximizing those guy, they dont look better than their parts, they are absolutely a result of those pieces. I mean, its for the best if you think about it. You have guys on your team capable of so much more but given their age or injury history, you can lessen their loads and extend their long term value.

Come to think about it, your team won 73 and thats with most of your guys playing limited minutes, if this were the 90's or 80's and teams played their best players alot longer, its possible you guys win even more for a shorter window. Random 2 cents

That's what I meant. That the team doesn't ask guys to do more than they can do and does take advantage of what they do well. Speights and Barbosa are not asked to play much D but they shoot and Barbosa kicks up the pace in limited runs. Livingston and Iguodala are expected to maintain possession, move the ball and shoot when they are open, but they seldom have plays called for them and the team keeps their minutes down to keep them healthy and available. Livingston hit 2 3s this year and only attempted 12, but he's the best post-up scorer on the team. Rush shoots 3s and does a little D but his lateral quickness is still pretty bad. Ian Clark shoots 3s and tries to be a pest on the perimeter. McAdoo just bangs into people. Ezeli and Varejao are limited skill big men who hustle and bang. All of those players have significant limitations, but they fit with the TEAM to make it better and the bench guys have won a lot of games by having the right skill to add on different nights.

KnicksorBust
05-02-2016, 11:57 AM
Klay or Reggie Miller?

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 12:03 PM
I really dont believe people when they talk about "on paper", its really just an excuse to make up any story they want. What if my paper differs from yours? Like on my paper, Ty isn't that talented and I truly think hes been done in by the booz and the natural decline that comes from being a midget that relies on speed. So how the **** are the Rox deep when they have to rely on their star player handling the most amount of minutes of anyone the past what, 3-4 years? Ive never seen a deep team have absolutely no viable option at PF, it was so bad at one point the Rockets had to play 2 centers together. And if your paper still has Josh Smith as a "talented player" then you need to update your paper game. Dude is done as a valuable contributor and even when we last saw him he was barely above average.

Josh Smith was insane against your Clips last year in game 6 though :)

I read a tweet that nailed it that night:

"Josh Smith is playing like Josh Smith thinks Josh Smith plays"

Scoots
05-02-2016, 12:05 PM
And the other argument is that Harden used to be a player who didn't NEED to dominate the ball and in those settings his defense was actually a strong part of his game. So Harden CAN play defense, Harden USED to be a great set shooter, I truly think Harden is like Paul Pierce, waiting for the right moment to come so he can play more of a team game. Pierce had a few years where he was overdoing it with the off the bounce jumpers. He had the built in excuse that his team was trash (and they were) but it gave him too much freedom and stunted the growth of his squad so its like a double edged sword long term.

But Pierce cut that **** down within 2 years, he also never played defense this disinterestedly but Im starting to wonder that maybe the Rox need him to extend almost nothing on that end. Hard to blame him for his conditioning when he plays the minutes he does.

I'd think that the high load on Harden would make him up his conditioning game, not lower it. Klay is in pretty constant motion on offense and guarding the opponents best guard on defense most possessions (in admittedly so he worked hard to get in better cardio shape.

Honestly I think the ONLY things Klay has over James is the defensive end and Klay is a better 3 point shooter. Harden is a better ball handler, passer, finisher, and overall scorer ... but offense is only half the game and that last game of his season (a statistically amazing season) was just more evidence that something is broken in James' game. He worked SO HARD to score at one end, and did it at an elite level, then literally stands aside while guys 7th and 8th on the bench go right past him for layups 5 seconds into the shot clock at the other end. That failing is the only reason I'd take Klay over James. If he can fix that then he'll be back to #1.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 12:06 PM
Josh Smith was insane against your Clips last year in game 6 though :)

I read a tweet that nailed it that night:

"Josh Smith is playing like Josh Smith thinks Josh Smith plays"

LOL. That's been true from day 1 when Josh Smith saw Josh Smith play in Atlanta.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 12:09 PM
Klay or Reggie Miller?

That's a REALLY tough one for me ... I'll take Klay, but it's not by much. Reggie was much more of a killer, a better ball handler, and better passer. But Klay is a better defender and I like the mellower temperament. But I could answer the other way tomorrow.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 12:09 PM
That's what I meant. That the team doesn't ask guys to do more than they can do and does take advantage of what they do well. Speights and Barbosa are not asked to play much D but they shoot and Barbosa kicks up the pace in limited runs. Livingston and Iguodala are expected to maintain possession, move the ball and shoot when they are open, but they seldom have plays called for them and the team keeps their minutes down to keep them healthy and available. Livingston hit 2 3s this year and only attempted 12, but he's the best post-up scorer on the team. Rush shoots 3s and does a little D but his lateral quickness is still pretty bad. Ian Clark shoots 3s and tries to be a pest on the perimeter. McAdoo just bangs into people. Ezeli and Varejao are limited skill big men who hustle and bang. All of those players have significant limitations, but they fit with the TEAM to make it better and the bench guys have won a lot of games by having the right skill to add on different nights.
Thats actually what I prefer in a bench rather than having the best hockey sub lineup. Its nice being able to go ten deep, helps keep you fresh all year but as Hubie Brown knows, its hard to maintain and come playoffs, the value you had over opposing subs is diminished thanks to the primary guys playing more.



The Clips used to have a straight up dominant defensive bench back when they had Eric Bledsoe, it was so stingy that it actually propelled the Clips into a top10 defensive ranking, but that was a mirage as teams dont play their weak links as much in the real season. Bledsoe was basically CP3's best sidekick some of those series but played limited minutes.

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 12:58 PM
That's a REALLY tough one for me ... I'll take Klay, but it's not by much. Reggie was much more of a killer, a better ball handler, and better passer. But Klay is a better defender and I like the mellower temperament. But I could answer the other way tomorrow.

Klay for me, easily. The defense alone. I still think Reggie just gets so much damn credit because people think of his handful of huge shots, instead of his entire body of work.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 01:06 PM
Thats actually what I prefer in a bench rather than having the best hockey sub lineup. Its nice being able to go ten deep, helps keep you fresh all year but as Hubie Brown knows, its hard to maintain and come playoffs, the value you had over opposing subs is diminished thanks to the primary guys playing more.



The Clips used to have a straight up dominant defensive bench back when they had Eric Bledsoe, it was so stingy that it actually propelled the Clips into a top10 defensive ranking, but that was a mirage as teams dont play their weak links as much in the real season. Bledsoe was basically CP3's best sidekick some of those series but played limited minutes.

Tightening up the rotation game by game does still let you take advantage of the bench, for instance the Warriors not playing Bogut late in the finals but Ezeli instead just because he "fit" better. The team just needs a flexible bench and a coach who can take advantage of the tools available.

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:06 PM
You fell for the bait. You would be very wrong.

BTW if anyone gets a chance, listen to Drays podcast with Bill Simmons. Dude wont stop hitting his bong


:confused:

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:09 PM
Klay or Reggie Miller?

At this stage of there careers you have to take the playoff legend (cue Hawk saying he only did it against the knicks and me citing his career playoff #s, record, and an insane amount of big moments).

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 01:12 PM
At this stage of there careers you have to take the playoff legend (cue Hawk saying he only did it against the knicks and me citing his career playoff #s, record, and an insane amount of big moments).

I already made my comment above haha

Reggie is a classic case of selective memory

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:14 PM
That's a REALLY tough one for me ... I'll take Klay, but it's not by much. Reggie was much more of a killer, a better ball handler, and better passer. But Klay is a better defender and I like the mellower temperament. But I could answer the other way tomorrow.


I've always said Klay has the tools to be a legit #1 guy. So far so good

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:17 PM
I already made my comment above haha

Reggie is a classic case of selective memory

he played in 144 playoff games and has great playoff #s. Classic case of Reggie hate. Dude is a troll.

Hawkeye15
05-02-2016, 01:22 PM
he played in 144 playoff games and has great playoff #s. Classic case of Reggie hate. Dude is a troll.

he was an efficient shooter/scorer, but that is literally it. Klay is an elite defender, on top of being the exact same thing Reggie offered. Does he have Reggie's career yet? No, he needs to play a lot longer. But between the two, on a team, Klay offers more because he essentially can replace what Reggie did at a high enough clip, and is miles better defensively.

Again, Reggie is a case of selective memory.

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:23 PM
he was an efficient shooter/scorer, but that is literally it. Klay is an elite defender, on top of being the exact same thing Reggie offered. Does he have Reggie's career yet? No, he needs to play a lot longer. But between the two, on a team, Klay offers more because he essentially can replace what Reggie did at a high enough clip, and is miles better defensively.

Again, Reggie is a case of selective memory.

you aren't the only one he trolled.

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:26 PM
anyway back to Klay love. He very well might wind up better then Reggie but he needs more miles and to show that he is a killer to do it. Not yet. That said i am the guy that compared him favorably to a Pip at this stage of this career so it wouldn't shock me. Klay has the game

Chronz
05-02-2016, 01:43 PM
Tightening up the rotation game by game does still let you take advantage of the bench, for instance the Warriors not playing Bogut late in the finals but Ezeli instead just because he "fit" better. The team just needs a flexible bench and a coach who can take advantage of the tools available.

It doesn't allow you take advantage of bench mob squads. You know, the hockey style substitutes you can see from teams that are super deep and play well together. Your example was just another example of the type of bench I prefer, the plug and play pieces that can compliment the rest of your best players. Vinny Del Negro used to literally sub entire units out and "the tribe called bench" would actually improve upon the lead. We used to rest a gang of 4th quarters too, Blakes minutes were down to like 31MPG or so. I really miss VDN but CP3 wanted a black coach and held us ransom to get him. I was all for it at the time, turned out to be our undoing.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 02:27 PM
It doesn't allow you take advantage of bench mob squads. You know, the hockey style substitutes you can see from teams that are super deep and play well together. Your example was just another example of the type of bench I prefer, the plug and play pieces that can compliment the rest of your best players. Vinny Del Negro used to literally sub entire units out and "the tribe called bench" would actually improve upon the lead. We used to rest a gang of 4th quarters too, Blakes minutes were down to like 31MPG or so. I really miss VDN but CP3 wanted a black coach and held us ransom to get him. I was all for it at the time, turned out to be our undoing.

I wasn't arguing with you. I've seen bench units that all come in together and drastically change the pace or style of the game. I too prefer the whole team play a similar style and hopefully all of them play D. :)

IndyRealist
05-02-2016, 02:53 PM
The Pacers used to have the "goon squad" back in the early "smashmouth" era. Jeff Foster, Tyler Hansbrough, Josh McRoberts, Dahntay Jones, Marquis Daniels and a very young Paul George. They would come in and just beat the crap out of teams. 100% energy all the time, 80% chance of a fight any given night.

Not going to comment on Reggie. We've been round and round on that topic.