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Tony_Starks
04-30-2016, 07:37 PM
This guy is the gift that keeps on giving! Sounds kindof delusional...
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More than just defending his team from the criticism that had come in waves, he accused other teams, without specifically naming them, of planting or influencing stories critical of the Rockets and their fall to 41-41 and a first-round playoff exit punctuated by three blowouts.


"It's been disappointing - and obviously we're all disappointed - that people are painting the season we just had and trying to make it into a larger thing than it is, which is one season that was disappointing in a sea of a lots of seasons that were successful," Morey said. "Not as successful as we want, but for sure not the entire negative environment that people are trying to paint.

"It's smart for other teams to try to paint us in a negative way. It's a very competitive free-agent situation. All the articles you see out there are other teams I think very smartly trying to paint our situation as negative. Being kicked while you're down is a smart situation by teams leaking things, trying to put stuff out there to make us look bad."


http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/rockets/article/General-manager-fires-back-in-defense-of-Rockets-7384853.php?t=09f9604758438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium

FOXHOUND
04-30-2016, 07:59 PM
:rolleyes:

What a troll.

Scoots
04-30-2016, 08:07 PM
I thought that was really funny when I saw it. Morey thinks the PR issue with his team is that other teams are out to get them? He should be talking about the game announcers and his own players faces telling a fairly clear story.

Tony_Starks
04-30-2016, 08:24 PM
Right other teams out to get him.

Nevermind his franchise player never heard of team basketball or defense, his two superstars have no chemistry, teammates bickering with each other on the floor and the locker room during the playoffs, and he fired a coach 11 games into the season to start off.

It's the other teams...

beasted86
05-01-2016, 12:11 AM
Why do fans support this clown? He's a douche, even if he's an overall positive for Houston.

Ariza's Better
05-01-2016, 12:41 AM
Jesus ****ing christ this thread is going to represent everything wrong with the modern sports fan.
I'm tired of people acting dumb just cause. He is just saying this to play down the problems in Houston. Like every other ****ing GM has done in the history of sport. I don't know how people can pretend like they don't know what's going on.

beasted86
05-01-2016, 12:59 AM
Jesus ****ing christ this thread is going to represent everything wrong with the modern sports fan.
I'm tired of people acting dumb just cause. He is just saying this to play down the problems in Houston. Like every other ****ing GM has done in the history of sport. I don't know how people can pretend like they don't know what's going on.

Actually this post is what's wrong with sports fans: blind homerism, unabashed apologists. But those aren't exactly modern flaws.

Ariza's Better
05-01-2016, 01:20 AM
Actually this post is what's wrong with sports fans: blind homerism, unabashed apologists. But those aren't exactly modern flaws.
Ah the classic ignore the post and scream homerism. But I get it, it's easy to act dumb and feel part of the joke.

Chrisclover
05-01-2016, 02:02 AM
It is ok to say something to save his face but blaming other teams is just ridiculous. The problem is that HOU have a great number of problems, namely the lack of chemistry between Howard and Harden. There is little to do with others.

More-Than-Most
05-01-2016, 04:15 AM
Ah the classic ignore the post and scream homerism. But I get it, it's easy to act dumb and feel part of the joke.

This is a GM acting like there is some kind of league wide conspiracy against his team and you think this is what every other GM does?

Ariza's Better
05-01-2016, 04:52 AM
This is a GM acting like there is some kind of league wide conspiracy against his team and you think this is what every other GM does?
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.

Sssmush
05-01-2016, 05:22 AM
This guy is the gift that keeps on giving! Sounds kindof delusional...
-------------------------------------------------------


More than just defending his team from the criticism that had come in waves, he accused other teams, without specifically naming them, of planting or influencing stories critical of the Rockets and their fall to 41-41 and a first-round playoff exit punctuated by three blowouts.


"It's been disappointing - and obviously we're all disappointed - that people are painting the season we just had and trying to make it into a larger thing than it is, which is one season that was disappointing in a sea of a lots of seasons that were successful," Morey said. "Not as successful as we want, but for sure not the entire negative environment that people are trying to paint.

"It's smart for other teams to try to paint us in a negative way. It's a very competitive free-agent situation. All the articles you see out there are other teams I think very smartly trying to paint our situation as negative. Being kicked while you're down is a smart situation by teams leaking things, trying to put stuff out there to make us look bad."


http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/rockets/article/General-manager-fires-back-in-defense-of-Rockets-7384853.php?t=09f9604758438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium

It's kind of true you gotta admit. I mean I don't know about other teams, but Stephen A and Skip on First Take are just all in on condemning the Houston Rockets. The team is a travesty. The lineup is a mixed up mishmash. There is no team play. The players don't play together. Firing McHale was the worst decision ever. And along with that, plenty of hints and innuendos that *wink wink* these guys have tattoos and look kind of street and you got Josh Smith on your team.

And then every once in a while Stephen A or Skip will just flat out say something snarky about "those darn analytics guys" or "these new advanced math guys that think they understand the game of basketball" blah blah blah.

Look... whatever Morey is doing is actually not that different from what Golden State is doing. And Golden State is pissing all over the entire league. Golden State will probably dominate straight through the Finals unless Nike get$ it$ way and Lebron gets an absurd amount of calls / non-calls.

But yeah, Cleveland will have to get 40+ extra free throws in at least 4 games in the Finals to have any chance whatsoever. So the league just has to ask itself is it worth it to look like jokes just to get "the King" a pathetic third ring.

Also Draymond might just go upside Lebron's head as he charges through the lane on his seventh step or whatever.

Assuming of course that GSW beats Portland and Curry gets back.

ewing
05-01-2016, 06:56 AM
It's kind of true you gotta admit. I mean I don't know about other teams, but Stephen A and Skip on First Take are just all in on condemning the Houston Rockets. The team is a travesty. The lineup is a mixed up mishmash. There is no team play. The players don't play together. Firing McHale was the worst decision ever. And along with that, plenty of hints and innuendos that *wink wink* these guys have tattoos and look kind of street and you got Josh Smith on your team.

And then every once in a while Stephen A or Skip will just flat out say something snarky about "those darn analytics guys" or "these new advanced math guys that think they understand the game of basketball" blah blah blah.

Look... whatever Morey is doing is actually not that different from what Golden State is doing. And Golden State is pissing all over the entire league. Golden State will probably dominate straight through the Finals unless Nike get$ it$ way and Lebron gets an absurd amount of calls / non-calls.

But yeah, Cleveland will have to get 40+ extra free throws in at least 4 games in the Finals to have any chance whatsoever. So the league just has to ask itself is it worth it to look like jokes just to get "the King" a pathetic third ring.

Also Draymond might just go upside Lebron's head as he charges through the lane on his seventh step or whatever.

Assuming of course that GSW beats Portland and Curry gets back.



GS and Houston are not doing the same thing.

mike_noodles
05-01-2016, 07:29 AM
Would other teams really do this? It would take a fair amount of time and energy to accomplish this at this level. Not to mention how low of a move it would be.

mike_noodles
05-01-2016, 07:32 AM
It's kind of true you gotta admit. I mean I don't know about other teams, but Stephen A and Skip on First Take are just all in on condemning the Houston Rockets. The team is a travesty. The lineup is a mixed up mishmash. There is no team play. The players don't play together. Firing McHale was the worst decision ever. And along with that, plenty of hints and innuendos that *wink wink* these guys have tattoos and look kind of street and you got Josh Smith on your team.

And then every once in a while Stephen A or Skip will just flat out say something snarky about "those darn analytics guys" or "these new advanced math guys that think they understand the game of basketball" blah blah blah.

Look... whatever Morey is doing is actually not that different from what Golden State is doing. And Golden State is pissing all over the entire league. Golden State will probably dominate straight through the Finals unless Nike get$ it$ way and Lebron gets an absurd amount of calls / non-calls.

But yeah, Cleveland will have to get 40+ extra free throws in at least 4 games in the Finals to have any chance whatsoever. So the league just has to ask itself is it worth it to look like jokes just to get "the King" a pathetic third ring.

Also Draymond might just go upside Lebron's head as he charges through the lane on his seventh step or whatever.

Assuming of course that GSW beats Portland and Curry gets back.

What team do those guys work for? And if they're the issue, we all have the same problem.

ewing
05-01-2016, 07:33 AM
I think he has been a good GM and thats whats important. he does seem like a self centered douche but whatever

DboneG
05-01-2016, 08:25 AM
Daryl Morey "other teams" Trying to Make Rockets Look Bad.....

No. It's one player that is making your team look bad. One selfish player with a lot of hair on his face. He has to be one of the most selfish players in the history of basketball next to Kobe. He would rather turn the ball over than pass. If you don't you get this guy inline, and take the "i" out of teiam...there will be significantly more erosion.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 11:21 AM
Ah the classic ignore the post and scream homerism. But I get it, it's easy to act dumb and feel part of the joke.

In all fairness your post was very homery.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 11:22 AM
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.

Do you honestly believe he should not be called out for his stupidity regardless of his own beliefs?

beasted86
05-01-2016, 11:31 AM
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.

Divert attention where? From what? I don't even understand what you think he's doing positively for the team here in this quote.

And to begin with he's suggesting that teams run the media and/or they are giving the "source" quotes to these media guys.

But yeah, keep being a homer I guess.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 12:24 PM
Divert attention where? From what? I don't even understand what you think he's doing positively for the team here in this quote.

And to begin with he's suggesting that teams run the media and/or they are giving the "source" quotes to these media guys.

But yeah, keep being a homer I guess.

Indeed. In third post in this thread I pointed out that it's the media and his own players throwing the team under the bus. Morey's barking at the moon is just making him look bad, like when he spouts off about this or that about his team is "the best" ... at this point people just roll their eyes.

Ariza's Better
05-01-2016, 06:21 PM
Do you honestly believe he should not be called out for his stupidity regardless of his own beliefs?
What I'm saying is call him out for going about it the wrong way. He absolutely should said its a made up media story rather than blame other teams. But let's not sit here pretend we don't know what he is doing and let's not pretend that every other GM would not do the same thing.

Ariza's Better
05-01-2016, 06:28 PM
Divert attention where? From what? I don't even understand what you think he's doing positively for the team here in this quote.

And to begin with he's suggesting that teams run the media and/or they are giving the "source" quotes to these media guys.

But yeah, keep being a homer I guess.
Perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Indeed. In third post in this thread I pointed out that it's the media and his own players throwing the team under the bus. Morey's barking at the moon is just making him look bad, like when he spouts off about this or that about his team is "the best" ... at this point people just roll their eyes.
What an evil person he is backing his players.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 07:10 PM
What I'm saying is call him out for going about it the wrong way. He absolutely should said its a made up media story rather than blame other teams. But let's not sit here pretend we don't know what he is doing and let's not pretend that every other GM would not do the same thing.

I don't think we're pretending we don't know what he's doing. I think what we're saying is what he's doing is stupid. And no, I don't believe every other GM would do the same thing ... create a conspiracy among NBA teams to discredit his franchise to hurt his team's free agent pursuits. That's just paranoid and most GMs don't want to be seen as paranoid.

naps
05-01-2016, 07:13 PM
This guy is a classic moron. Who fires a coach 11 games into the season specially after coming off of WCF? If you have a dysfunctional locker room it falls on the GM as much it falls on its players. Analytics my ***! He is a straight up clown.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 07:16 PM
Perfect example of what I'm talking about.

What an evil person he is backing his players.

He's not backing his players, he's just saying it's the rest of the NBA. His players know the truth, they've made it clear to everybody what was up. This is a time for Morey either to be quiet or to sell coaches and free agents on his plan, not trying to get them to QUICK LOOK OVER THERE AT THAT TRUCK!!!

albertajaysfan
05-01-2016, 08:11 PM
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.

While I agree with you in terms of what he is doing. How do you feel about it? If that was the GM of my team it would piss me right off. Sugarcoating stuff in the media doesn't seem like a good way to attract players. Good team players are generally also fairly intelligent. So my guess is they can see right through the garbage he is telling the media to deflect attention. That in term probably makes them want to sign with the Rockets even less.

This all my opinion. Curious about yours.

Edit: nevermind I read more of your posts on this topic. I know your opinion now.

blahblahyoutoo
05-01-2016, 09:04 PM
he clearly didn't see how only 1 guy celebrated harden's game winner.
i saw more emotion and celebration when players hit shots throughout regular season games.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 09:12 PM
he clearly didn't see how only 1 guy celebrated harden's game winner.
i saw more emotion and celebration when players hit shots throughout regular season games.

There is more celebration at the average colonoscopy.

Sssmush
05-01-2016, 09:31 PM
This guy is a classic moron. Who fires a coach 11 games into the season specially after coming off of WCF? If you have a dysfunctional locker room it falls on the GM as much it falls on its players. Analytics my ***! He is a straight up clown.

See... In reality no one can ever say that "analytics" is "bad"... that is something that some of the more traditional or conservative coaches/GMs and commentators I think would love to say, but they kind of chew on their words and hesitate because literally they don't even know what they're talking about and so they take the more careful path. But then if a Daryl Morey or a Sam Hinkie have an sub-par season or get blown out by their owner, suddenly "the media" comes out of the woodwork to trash them with all this stored up vitriol.

The McHale firing I'm sure made sense on some level. In any case, even if it was a -EV decision it was an extremely marginal one. McHale could probably coach another 200 years and still be a favorite to never win a championship. He's gonna get to some conference finals and maybe a finals or two, but those Frankenstein-looking type coaches never get the golden ring. Just doesn't happen. I don't know why. I have some theories.

But yeah... where the "non-analytical" (??) crowd really conflict with the analytics type basketball players or see an obvious problem in their reasoning is when the former have used analytics or reasoning to make decisions that are, technically, +EV but are very marginal and also appear on the surface to be very counterintuitive. This almost amounts to a form of trolling, a kind of basketball paradox that you just know everybody will freak out and object to, but that in a laboratory you can break it down and prove that it is actually +EV but just barely.

Just like if you collapse all of Hinkie's 76'r timelines for the next ten years and the possible players they will get through the draft, then Hinkie's strategy of the past 3 years is definitely +EV I think. But if you factor in they could have one 30 games etc and maybe made one playoff and could've drafted Julius Randle, Larry Nance Jr., etc, and project forward comparably... and that the risk/reward of drafting an Embiid in the modern NBA is super marginal and they lost that coinflip probably...

All the value Hinkie was going for is so razor thin and marginal that even if yes he did have good reasoning behind it he winds up being out because it just LOOKS weird what he was doing and in any case he's EV is so marginal he's almost playing an equilibrium game. Like sure he can do what he did and maybe the 76'rs win a title in five years... but some 12 year old picking based on Hoops Magazine the past three years would very likely have the same expected value or chance of winning a title, without going out of his way to win the fewest games in NBA history every year.

But yeah, Morey's team will resurface and be much better next year I would guess. Maybe they can trade Harden back to OKC to play with Sam Adams or something. And anyway yeah they were in the WCFs last year. So how many teams can realistically criticize him? Dwight's a dog and he's gone. Harden is hit or miss but with the right team mix could light it up.

Scoots
05-01-2016, 09:57 PM
See... In reality no one can ever say that "analytics" is "bad"... that is something that some of the more traditional or conservative coaches/GMs and commentators I think would love to say, but they kind of chew on their words and hesitate because literally they don't even know what they're talking about and so they take the more careful path. But then if a Daryl Morey or a Sam Hinkie have an sub-par season or get blown out by their owner, suddenly "the media" comes out of the woodwork to trash them with all this stored up vitriol.

The McHale firing I'm sure made sense on some level. In any case, even if it was a -EV decision it was an extremely marginal one. McHale could probably coach another 200 years and still be a favorite to never win a championship. He's gonna get to some conference finals and maybe a finals or two, but those Frankenstein-looking type coaches never get the golden ring. Just doesn't happen. I don't know why. I have some theories.

But yeah... where the "non-analytical" (??) crowd really conflict with the analytics type basketball players or see an obvious problem in their reasoning is when the former have used analytics or reasoning to make decisions that are, technically, +EV but are very marginal and also appear on the surface to be very counterintuitive. This almost amounts to a form of trolling, a kind of basketball paradox that you just know everybody will freak out and object to, but that in a laboratory you can break it down and prove that it is actually +EV but just barely.

Just like if you collapse all of Hinkie's 76'r timelines for the next ten years and the possible players they will get through the draft, then Hinkie's strategy of the past 3 years is definitely +EV I think. But if you factor in they could have one 30 games etc and maybe made one playoff and could've drafted Julius Randle, Larry Nance Jr., etc, and project forward comparably... and that the risk/reward of drafting an Embiid in the modern NBA is super marginal and they lost that coinflip probably...

All the value Hinkie was going for is so razor thin and marginal that even if yes he did have good reasoning behind it he winds up being out because it just LOOKS weird what he was doing and in any case he's EV is so marginal he's almost playing an equilibrium game. Like sure he can do what he did and maybe the 76'rs win a title in five years... but some 12 year old picking based on Hoops Magazine the past three years would very likely have the same expected value or chance of winning a title, without going out of his way to win the fewest games in NBA history every year.

But yeah, Morey's team will resurface and be much better next year I would guess. Maybe they can trade Harden back to OKC to play with Sam Adams or something. And anyway yeah they were in the WCFs last year. So how many teams can realistically criticize him? Dwight's a dog and he's gone. Harden is hit or miss but with the right team mix could light it up.

But this thread isn't about analytics, it's about Morey's non-analytic antics like blaming all of the other teams in the NBA in a vast conspiracy to besmirch the reputation of his fine perfectly running and perfectly happy team.

Analytics are not bad, they are great, but they are NOT everything and Morey's public outburst was not about analytics but about human frailty. His own.

More-Than-Most
05-01-2016, 09:58 PM
What I'm saying is call him out for going about it the wrong way. He absolutely should said its a made up media story rather than blame other teams. But let's not sit here pretend we don't know what he is doing and let's not pretend that every other GM would not do the same thing.

lol right now it seems like the one that has their head up their *** is you good buddy... unless everyone in this thread except you has their head up their *** because everyone agrees except you :shrug:

lol, please
05-02-2016, 12:06 AM
This guy is a classic moron. Who fires a coach 11 games into the season specially after coming off of WCF? If you have a dysfunctional locker room it falls on the GM as much it falls on its players. Analytics my ***! He is a straight up clown.

wow!

AllBall
05-02-2016, 12:19 AM
Jesus ****ing christ this thread is going to represent everything wrong with the modern sports fan.
I'm tired of people acting dumb just cause. He is just saying this to play down the problems in Houston. Like every other ****ing GM has done in the history of sport. I don't know how people can pretend like they don't know what's going on.

I agree with this.

Calm down internet.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 12:54 AM
I agree with this.

Calm down internet.

You don't think Morey made himself look bad by contriving an NBA wide conspiracy to make him and his team look bad and then had a press conference to tell everyone about it? Because THAT is what this thread is about ... Morey being an idiot.

Sssmush
05-02-2016, 03:53 AM
You don't think Morey made himself look bad by contriving an NBA wide conspiracy to make him and his team look bad and then had a press conference to tell everyone about it? Because THAT is what this thread is about ... Morey being an idiot.

I do agree that Morey should've been more prudent or savvy with what he said about this, and realized that if he gets baited or trolled into saying something like he did it will inevitably just be turned against him. Like they finally made him mad and then everybody runs into a corner and says "see??!? He's an angry jerk!" or whatever.

But if we want to be objective about this, we can realize that what Morey is saying is essentially true. Not that "teams" or "franchises" are officially doing this, but that at least some GMs and coaches are putting it out there.

For instance we heard about the anger amongst the coaching insiders regarding the firing of Brett Brown. Popovich mentioned it, so angry, just terrible firing, right? So then Jeff van Gundy gets a hold of that and echoes it down the line. Then also probably every GM and coach that ever worked under Popovich. And every media insider that is connected with those guys. They are all echoing behind the scenes about what a ridiculous firing it was to dump Brett Brown. Brett Brown is "a great guy" an " amazing coach" this firing was "completely unjustified" etc etc etc blah blah blah.

So their little coaches and GMs sewing circle gets all in a hysterical gossipy uproar and no one is going to disagree with Popovich who apparently thought Brett Brown was such a wonderful guy and coach.

Ditto then with the McHale firing. The rustling rumours start. A coach was fired. By an "analytics guy." After a WCF (even though that was super flukey and the Rockets were mostly playing like crap). If an analytics hotshot can fire a coach fresh off a WCF season who is also a hall of fame player and a card carrying member of the coaches fraternity, just like that after 11 games, then whose job is safe?

Therefore a large number of coaches and GMs ARE talking smack about Morey behind the scenes, it does get out to the media (indirectly) and word does reach ownership circles.

Therefore Morey is actually correct and is just stating the facts.

Sssmush
05-02-2016, 04:07 AM
Seriously though, this kind of cult of personality of the coach is pretty much of a ripoff or a con game. Just generally. Like everyone was surprised Luke Walton could step in an win 40 games in a row or whatever for GSW.

Like "how could the Warriors possibly do that? They don't even have that recognizable blonde guy sitting on the sideline looking earnest and clean cut." So then the conclusion is that Luke Walton must have magical powers and therefore be the next hottest coaching prospect and the new $10M a year golden boy for some marquee franchise.

When in reality you could probably swap in assistants in any/all of the NBA jobs and get very, very similar results. The key factor probably being the quality and character of the players on the team themselves, and their willingness and maturity and love of the game to unite under a head coach and utilize that leadership to play better.

This whole idea of the players are like a pack of wild dogs and once they smell fear or sense the lack of an elite coach-confidence they will turn on you is a ludicrous myth if you ask me. Yeah the coach is a powerful position but in the NBA the star power of the players is greater so winning is really more about the players investing in the coach and feeling a sense of team. So really any coach that is "real" and not fake and has heart and listens and puts effort into optimizing strategy should succeed pretty well with a good team. Like watch when Duncan and Ginobili take off from the Spurs they will probably suck.

Aust
05-02-2016, 05:21 AM
What I'm saying is call him out for going about it the wrong way. He absolutely should said its a made up media story rather than blame other teams. But let's not sit here pretend we don't know what he is doing and let's not pretend that every other GM would not do the same thing.

Point me to other GMs doing that in the past.

Ariza's Better
05-02-2016, 06:14 AM
Point me to other GMs doing that in the past.
What? Lie to make it seem like there is no lockeroom problems?
Mike Kupchak and vlad divac to name two off the top of my head.

MonroeFAN
05-02-2016, 06:25 AM
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.


I'm gonna tell your mom and your dad that you're on the internet swearing.

Munkeysuit
05-02-2016, 08:30 AM
Guise, who's Daryl Morey again?

valade16
05-02-2016, 09:16 AM
I do agree that Morey should've been more prudent or savvy with what he said about this, and realized that if he gets baited or trolled into saying something like he did it will inevitably just be turned against him. Like they finally made him mad and then everybody runs into a corner and says "see??!? He's an angry jerk!" or whatever.

But if we want to be objective about this, we can realize that what Morey is saying is essentially true. Not that "teams" or "franchises" are officially doing this, but that at least some GMs and coaches are putting it out there.

For instance we heard about the anger amongst the coaching insiders regarding the firing of Brett Brown. Popovich mentioned it, so angry, just terrible firing, right? So then Jeff van Gundy gets a hold of that and echoes it down the line. Then also probably every GM and coach that ever worked under Popovich. And every media insider that is connected with those guys. They are all echoing behind the scenes about what a ridiculous firing it was to dump Brett Brown. Brett Brown is "a great guy" an " amazing coach" this firing was "completely unjustified" etc etc etc blah blah blah.

So their little coaches and GMs sewing circle gets all in a hysterical gossipy uproar and no one is going to disagree with Popovich who apparently thought Brett Brown was such a wonderful guy and coach.

Ditto then with the McHale firing. The rustling rumours start. A coach was fired. By an "analytics guy." After a WCF (even though that was super flukey and the Rockets were mostly playing like crap). If an analytics hotshot can fire a coach fresh off a WCF season who is also a hall of fame player and a card carrying member of the coaches fraternity, just like that after 11 games, then whose job is safe?

Therefore a large number of coaches and GMs ARE talking smack about Morey behind the scenes, it does get out to the media (indirectly) and word does reach ownership circles.

Therefore Morey is actually correct and is just stating the facts.

But the thing is so is everybody who is "talking smack" about the Rockets. They don't have to make up stuff to be indignant about. It's obvious there is serious locker room dysfunction there. It's obvious players don't want to play with Hrarden/don't feel involved when he plays. It's obvious Harden gives 0 effort on defense. It's obvious that McHale wasn't the problem with their slow start, and it's obvious Morey should not have fired him so soon in the season.

Both sides can be telling the truth.

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 09:30 AM
At the end of the day what does this sham of a smokescreen accomplish?

A) we don't believe you

B) antagonizes other gm's he may need to deal with ( when his rep among them is already not so great)

C) makes him look like a buffoon to prospective free agents


Do you notice any similarities between this and Hinkies 12 page exit letter?
I do....

ewing
05-02-2016, 09:36 AM
I do agree that Morey should've been more prudent or savvy with what he said about this, and realized that if he gets baited or trolled into saying something like he did it will inevitably just be turned against him. Like they finally made him mad and then everybody runs into a corner and says "see??!? He's an angry jerk!" or whatever.

But if we want to be objective about this, we can realize that what Morey is saying is essentially true. Not that "teams" or "franchises" are officially doing this, but that at least some GMs and coaches are putting it out there.

For instance we heard about the anger amongst the coaching insiders regarding the firing of Brett Brown. Popovich mentioned it, so angry, just terrible firing, right? So then Jeff van Gundy gets a hold of that and echoes it down the line. Then also probably every GM and coach that ever worked under Popovich. And every media insider that is connected with those guys. They are all echoing behind the scenes about what a ridiculous firing it was to dump Brett Brown. Brett Brown is "a great guy" an " amazing coach" this firing was "completely unjustified" etc etc etc blah blah blah.

So their little coaches and GMs sewing circle gets all in a hysterical gossipy uproar and no one is going to disagree with Popovich who apparently thought Brett Brown was such a wonderful guy and coach.

Ditto then with the McHale firing. The rustling rumours start. A coach was fired. By an "analytics guy." After a WCF (even though that was super flukey and the Rockets were mostly playing like crap). If an analytics hotshot can fire a coach fresh off a WCF season who is also a hall of fame player and a card carrying member of the coaches fraternity, just like that after 11 games, then whose job is safe?

Therefore a large number of coaches and GMs ARE talking smack about Morey behind the scenes, it does get out to the media (indirectly) and word does reach ownership circles.

Therefore Morey is actually correct and is just stating the facts.


well you seem like you have a thick skin :rolleyes:

Scoots
05-02-2016, 09:58 AM
I do agree that Morey should've been more prudent

<snip>

Therefore Morey is actually correct and is just stating the facts.

There is a big difference between some people talking in the past about moves in the distant past, and even those people holding grudges, and what Morey is implying ... that his team is fine and the problem is a fabrication of the NBA who are out to get him.

JVG complaining about every coach who loses their job is par for the course. He doesn't think any coach should lose their job. But he's not a team, he's TV. And what I've been saying from the start of this is that Morey's problem isn't other NBA teams but the media and his own players giving his team a bad rep with free agents.

Morey didn't state facts, he cast aspersions, and as you say it was dumb of him to do it ... or as you said, not "prudent".

Scoots
05-02-2016, 09:59 AM
At the end of the day what does this sham of a smokescreen accomplish?

A) we don't believe you

B) antagonizes other gm's he may need to deal with ( when his rep among them is already not so great)

C) makes him look like a buffoon to prospective free agents


Do you notice any similarities between this and Hinkies 12 page exit letter?
I do....

This. (and ouch on that last bit)

AllBall
05-02-2016, 11:38 AM
You don't think Morey made himself look bad by contriving an NBA wide conspiracy to make him and his team look bad and then had a press conference to tell everyone about it? Because THAT is what this thread is about ... Morey being an idiot.

To me that's irrelevant and a matter of opinion. Every GM will defend his decisions and there is truth in what he is saying, other teams will manipulate the media to tip free agency in their favor. It happens all the time.

Regardless, the Rockets will get top free agents, they always seem to get them.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 11:47 AM
Just reading the article, without knowing who hes trying to refute, I cant take offense. You guys act like teams dont have their own gossip mill, DM is just more outspoken and knows how to defend his actions. Love how no one has anything to say about the facts he laid down, all 3 of the Texas teams have had the best winning% of the past decade+.

This is NOTHING compared to what Lacob said a few months ago, Morey is defending his star player from criticism, GS tried to downplay their MVP's contributions, but THIS is the gift that keeps on giving? LOL, Morey will be in Houston and the NBA in general for a very a long time people, hes part of the NBA lexicon now so I understand this makes him a target but some of us dont see the big deal here.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 12:07 PM
Just reading the article, without knowing who hes trying to refute, I cant take offense. You guys act like teams dont have their own gossip mill, DM is just more outspoken and knows how to defend his actions. Love how no one has anything to say about the facts he laid down, all 3 of the Texas teams have had the best winning% of the past decade+.

This is NOTHING compared to what Lacob said a few months ago, Morey is defending his star player from criticism, GS tried to downplay their MVP's contributions, but THIS is the gift that keeps on giving? LOL, Morey will be in Houston and the NBA in general for a very a long time people, hes part of the NBA lexicon now so I understand this makes him a target but some of us dont see the big deal here.
Winning percentage of Texas teams? His team missed the playoffs 4 times in those past 10 years and has been out of the first round twice.

I'm starting to sympathize with that Rockets homer now, because it's obvious his smokescreen works against some of the more gullible fans.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 12:21 PM
Winning percentage of Texas teams? His team missed the playoffs 4 times in those past 10 years and has been out of the first round twice.

I'm starting to sympathize with that Rockets homer now, because it's obvious his smokescreen works against some of the more gullible fans.

I dont understand your confusion, yes the winning% of the Texas teams is tops in the league. You seem to be missing his point, even when they missed the playoffs, the team was in contention for it. Essentially, hes bragging about doing what you enjoy seeing teams do, which is to not tank even though he prolly should've this year.

Keep trying to pass me off as some gullible fan, unless you can show me what criticism hes refuting, thats an impressive fact to cite as to why your team isn't the fodder others are making it out to be.

Serious question, did you read the article or do you just jump in to trash people with different opinions? Cuz if you read the article, you can see why hes just defending his star guy.

Again, GS undermined its own star and the MVP of the league. Thats MUCH worse than sticking up for your team from criticism.

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 12:34 PM
He also literally says in the article "James Harden... I don't know who wouldn't want to play with him?" So that shows how seriously you can take his comments.

That's the kind of statement you make, then immediately after they ask you go to HR where they have a urine cup waiting for you.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 12:53 PM
He also literally says in the article "James Harden... I don't know who wouldn't want to play with him?" So that shows how seriously you can take his comments.

That's the kind of statement you make, then immediately after they ask you go to HR where they have a urine cup waiting for you.

What because of 1 guy? ****, thats much better than when Jeannie said anyone who doesn't want to play with Kobe is prolly a loser and we dont want that guy anyways, and wasn't that when Kobe was already broken down?

Also, what do you think of Dwight suggesting he might stay in Houston? PR sounds about right but Im not going to disregard everything he says because you have an inkling about what, 1 guy, especially when its Dwight you're obviously referencing. Dude hated playing with Steve Nash, doesn't mean its irrational to say I dont know who wouldn't want to play with him.

I only discount what he says if Im the type to take everything literally, it kind of goes without saying that not all players like each other but if what hes saying is true, and the majority do like playing with him (especially some one like KD) then hes allowed to use the expression. I can grant him some leeway on that small act when you look at what some other FO execs have pulled.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 12:54 PM
I dont understand your confusion, yes the winning% of the Texas teams is tops in the league. You seem to be missing his point, even when they missed the playoffs, the team was in contention for it. Essentially, hes bragging about doing what you enjoy seeing teams do, which is to not tank even though he prolly should've this year.

Keep trying to pass me off as some gullible fan, unless you can show me what criticism hes refuting, thats an impressive fact to cite as to why your team isn't the fodder others are making it out to be.

Serious question, did you read the article or do you just jump in to trash people with different opinions? Cuz if you read the article, you can see why hes just defending his star guy.

Again, GS undermined its own star and the MVP of the league. Thats MUCH worse than sticking up for your team from criticism.

First thing is Miami has 1 more win than Houston in that time, so he's stretching the truth already from the get go. Houston is 4th in wins in the past 10 years.

Second, it's still a diversion only the simple minded fall for. Cheating husband: Remember how happy we used to be together? Failing stock broker: We've made a lot of money together, the portfolio well bounce back. Gym membership retention specialist: You can't quit now, you lost so much weight before you have to stick with it!

LMAO!

Houston and Morey seem to be on the downtrend. They've struck out in free agency over the past couple summers. They are coming off a very disappointing season. They have uncertainty at the coaching position. They seem to have locker room and teammate chemistry issues.

Look I kinda get what he's trying to do but I still don't, lol. You have to try and paint the position the team is in as best as possible. They are headed into a huge free agency period. If Dwight opts out they will have a ton of cap space. Since they won't have a first round pick, and neither do they have a crop of good young players to improve substantially internally, everything is landing on his shoulders to have a good free agency. Even in these preliminary free agency side pitches like this one he can't even say "We have 2 great all-star players" like he was singing the last 2 summers when they struck out. He can't even keep to that angle anymore.

So while I do get some of it, I don't get it because all that's going to matter is last season when it comes to free agency. You think Kevin Durant is looking at the Wizards the same way he might of if they continued to make the playoffs this year? No way. In free agency what you've don't lately matters most. What current players are in the stable, what coach is there and how do players respond to him? I can easily see Houston striking out and being in the lottery. But like I said, I guess some easily impressionable fans might fall for this ploy and say they aren't in a bad position.

smith&wesson
05-02-2016, 12:55 PM
Bahahaha how about just admitting the truth Morey??? "Dwight was the wrong player to covet, it was a bad move to sign him, he and Harden didn't mesh well, it effected the entire team" etc etc.

Other teams aren't making your team look bad, your team is making your team look bad.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 01:12 PM
First thing is Miami has 1 more win than Houston in that time, so he's stretching the truth already from the get go. Houston is 4th in wins in the past 10 years.

Sounds like impressive company to me, those teams have won chips so if hes stretching the truth by a single win, then I guess we better burn him at the stake? And to be fair, a single win in the East isn't worth much. If you want to tout the titles then by all means but I dont see where hes suggesting hes won championships, simply giving reasons why his team isn't in the shambles whatever source is suggesting they are.


Second, it's still a diversion only the simple minded fall for. Cheating husband: Remember how happy we used to be together? Failing stock broker: We've made a lot of money together, the portfolio well bounce back. Gym membership retention specialist: You can't quit now, you lost so much weight before you have to stick with it!

LMAO!

Not at all, I know of a very happy couple that came back to each other, I envy them in many respects. Its funny, my cousin is actually a broker who was ******** himself before he recovered, now the dudes married and living the good life, I've never relied on him but hes had day 1 clients, I highly doubt they stayed on because they were gullible, maybe he just made his case and they bought in. Point being, **** is circumstantial, not everyone fits the role you want to force them onto.



Houston and Morey seem to be on the downtrend. They've struck out in free agency over the past couple summers. They are coming off a very disappointing season. They have uncertainty at the coaching position. They seem to have locker room and teammate chemistry issues.

I dont trust your interpretation of any sort of trend, if you've followed his career you've heard this all before. In fact, it was being said of him before he finally landed Harden and then he took Dwight from the Lakers and many other suitors and reached the WCF. Hes rebuilt so many teams based on needs that were sometimes unfair or unseen, why would this be anything other than a blip, especially given the facts hes laid out?



Look I kinda get what he's trying to do but I still don't, lol. You have to try and paint the position the team is in as best as possible. They are headed into a huge free agency period. If Dwight opts out they will have a ton of cap space. Since they won't have a first round pick, and neither do they have a crop of good young players to improve substantially internally, everything is landing on his shoulders to have a good free agency. Even in these preliminary free agency side pitches like this one he can't even say "We have 2 great all-star players" like he was singing the last 2 summers when they struck out. He can't even keep to that angle anymore.

So while I do get some of it, I don't get it because all that's going to matter is last season when it comes to free agency. You think Kevin Durant is looking at the Wizards the same way he might of if they continued to make the playoffs this year? No way. In free agency what you've don't lately matters most. What current players are in the stable, what coach is there and how do players respond to him? I can easily see Houston striking out and being in the lottery. But like I said, I guess some easily impressionable fans might fall for this ploy and say they aren't in a bad position.
This will be his toughest challenge yet, but hes pulled off some incredible moves out of no where before. His owner has full trust in him but more than anything, I dont buy much of the opinions you gave here. I know some FO take pride in consistently being in the playoffs and have had players admit they chose them because of that stability. I dont think you know enough about what goes in behind negotiations to be able to paint people with such broad strokes. There is contextual nuance to people, but yes, everyone who disagrees with you must be impressionable/gullible. LMFAO

Chronz
05-02-2016, 01:20 PM
Bahahaha how about just admitting the truth Morey??? "Dwight was the wrong player to covet, it was a bad move to sign him, he and Harden didn't mesh well, it effected the entire team" etc etc.

Other teams aren't making your team look bad, your team is making your team look bad.

Well he cant name names but he did admit fault, its in the article. What his argument is, is that Houston is still a great destination and that its been a consistently well run organization and among the most successful teams this decade.

Its also a place where free agents always come and give a legit chance to. While some would say he struck out on FA, others would find it impressive that he put himself in a position to potentially acquire them despite never tanking to accrue assets/cap. Its not an easy thing to do but hes had no choice in Houston.

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:22 PM
The guy is a decent GM. That's it. there is no reason for him to get this much attention. At least Hinkie was historically bad- that's something to talk about.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 01:24 PM
I dont understand your confusion, yes the winning% of the Texas teams is tops in the league. You seem to be missing his point, even when they missed the playoffs, the team was in contention for it. Essentially, hes bragging about doing what you enjoy seeing teams do, which is to not tank even though he prolly should've this year.

Again, GS undermined its own star and the MVP of the league. Thats MUCH worse than sticking up for your team from criticism.

The Rockets have a top 3 winning % over the last decade? Because that's what it sounded like you were saying.

The Rockets should have tanked this year? Really? Something tells me Harden would not have found that acceptable.

How did GS undermine Curry?

Chronz
05-02-2016, 01:31 PM
The guy is a decent GM. That's it. there is no reason for him to get this much attention. At least Hinkie was historically bad- that's a something to talk about.
Hes the face of the quant movement, hes left an imprint on the game. Thats why he always going to be a polarizing subject.



The Rockets have a top 3 winning % over the last decade? Because that's what it sounded like you were saying.

The Rockets should have tanked this year? Really? Something tells me Harden would not have found that acceptable.

How did GS undermine Curry?
Beasted corrected the claim, its only the 4th best I guess.

Harden would actually welcome it. Tank is relative, had they traded away Dwight the team either gets at least 1 win worse and it gets to keep its pick or his presence was actually so cancerous that the team improves in his absence, either way, unless he retains Dwight this year or he gets something for him in a S&T, its going to be a bad move in retrospect. Thats all I meant, not that they just unload all the talent and play Harden with D-Leaguers.

The letter boasting of hubris was what I was referring to. You know, the one that led to him having to preemptively text Curry, the one where Curry had to let everyone know how disrespectful he was being to the Spurs and the like.

ewing
05-02-2016, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=Chronz;30894310]Hes the face of the quant movement, hes left an imprint on the game. Thats why he always going to be a polarizing subject.



Like i said he has proven to be competent. He didn't invent stats. Sorry but I fail to see what all the hubbub is about.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 02:04 PM
Sounds like impressive company to me, those teams have won chips so if hes stretching the truth by a single win, then I guess we better burn him at the stake? And to be fair, a single win in the East isn't worth much. If you want to tout the titles then by all means but I dont see where hes suggesting hes won championships, simply giving reasons why his team isn't in the shambles whatever source is suggesting they are.


Not at all, I know of a very happy couple that came back to each other, I envy them in many respects. Its funny, my cousin is actually a broker who was ******** himself before he recovered, now the dudes married and living the good life, I've never relied on him but hes had day 1 clients, I highly doubt they stayed on because they were gullible, maybe he just made his case and they bought in. Point being, **** is circumstantial, not everyone fits the role you want to force them onto.



I dont trust your interpretation of any sort of trend, if you've followed his career you've heard this all before. In fact, it was being said of him before he finally landed Harden and then he took Dwight from the Lakers and many other suitors and reached the WCF. Hes rebuilt so many teams based on needs that were sometimes unfair or unseen, why would this be anything other than a blip, especially given the facts hes laid out?



This will be his toughest challenge yet, but hes pulled off some incredible moves out of no where before. His owner has full trust in him but more than anything, I dont buy much of the opinions you gave here. I know some FO take pride in consistently being in the playoffs and have had players admit they chose them because of that stability. I dont think you know enough about what goes in behind negotiations to be able to paint people with such broad strokes. There is contextual nuance to people, but yes, everyone who disagrees with you must be impressionable/gullible. LMFAO
Rebuilt so many teams? The guy took over in 2007 and rebuilt the core 1 time. Yes, LMAO @ your gullible faith in this guy.

The team has gotten nowhere in the post season. In free agency you can credit him with Howard, but if we want to knit pick he lost Dragić to a pathetic $7.5M contract bid, who in hindsight would have probably been a stellar fit with the core he later built and wouldn't have hindered the Howard signing. Parsons basically did everything possible to leave him high and dry. Josh Smith left for the minimum, that's how little he wanted to continue playing there.

This guy doesn't really seem to be able to get guys to want to come and stay. He's got Howard and Ariza. The rest have been trades. Some worked and others failed. Overall he's been thoroughly average in free agency. I don't understand the belief in him, but whatever. If I was a Rockets fan I wouldn't be confident at all.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 02:14 PM
Harden would actually welcome it. Tank is relative, had they traded away Dwight the team either gets at least 1 win worse and it gets to keep its pick or his presence was actually so cancerous that the team improves in his absence, either way, unless he retains Dwight this year or he gets something for him in a S&T, its going to be a bad move in retrospect. Thats all I meant, not that they just unload all the talent and play Harden with D-Leaguers.

The letter boasting of hubris was what I was referring to. You know, the one that led to him having to preemptively text Curry, the one where Curry had to let everyone know how disrespectful he was being to the Spurs and the like.

Okay, you meant making mid season trades this year type of tanking, not coming into the season trying to lose as many games as possible for the full season kind of tanking. I'm sure you are right and Harden would have liked to play fewer minutes and have the team trying to rebuild.

I don't quite know how someone boasts of hubris ... but I still don't know what letter you are talking about.

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 02:33 PM
To his credit he does at some point attempt to take ownership of this debacle, but it's really lost in all his hogwash.

The idea that teams have to basically conspire to discredit a visibly dysfunctional, super mediocre team that barely made the playoffs is really a joke.

If anything it's ironic he points the fingers at others making bad press for them when it's his own grandiose, self serving, arrogant and sometimes idiotic public comments that make him and the Rockets easy targets when they fail.

ewing
05-02-2016, 02:36 PM
To his credit he does at some point attempt to take ownership of this debacle, but it's really lost in all his hogwash.

The idea that teams have to basically conspire to discredit a visibly dysfunctional, super mediocre team that barely made the playoffs is really a joke.

If anything it's ironic he points the fingers at others making bad press for them when it's his own grandiose, self serving, arrogant and sometimes idiotic public comments that make him and the Rockets easy targets when they fail.

but if he didn't do that he have to stand on his record and be nothing but a nameless relatively competent basketball exc. this way people are fooled into thinking he is interesting.

Chronz
05-02-2016, 02:40 PM
Rebuilt so many teams? The guy took over in 2007 and rebuilt the core 1 time. Yes, LMAO @ your gullible faith in this guy.
Unless you have a different definition of 2007, you sound either ignorant or like someone who discounts his influence on purpose. He actually took over in 2006 but it wasn't his official title, still anyone who actually knows the subject you mock me for, KNOWS he was calling the shots for big moves.
He inherited a core that couldn't win without Tmac and turned them into a team that could push the champs to 7 without Yao. Then there was the stretch where he moved into an asset collecting stage where the owner would refuse to tank, kept the team above .500 and then nabbed Harden and built a team around him. Added Dwight hoping for a 1-2 punch and an elite defensive team. How many times is that and why does that only count as 1 core when hes prolly had the most transactions in that same span? Could be semantics but your inability to grasp that concept and continue to stick with your false narrative is a bad look for you.


The team has gotten nowhere in the post season. In free agency you can credit him with Howard, but if we want to knit pick he lost Dragić to a pathetic $7.5M contract bid, who in hindsight would have probably been a stellar fit with the core he later built and wouldn't have hindered the Howard signing. Parsons basically did everything possible to leave him high and dry. Josh Smith left for the minimum, that's how little he wanted to continue playing there.

The team made the WCF and has stayed competitive throughout the decade, during the hardest stretch in Western Conference history. Now, if you want to argue thats going nowhere then you have to show me where he says hes going anywhere he hasnt, which brings me back to my original point. Unless you know the criticism against his team, I dont see the point you're making. I dont think hes proclaiming that the Rockets have been THE best team in the NBA over a decade, just citing reasons why he thinks the criticism is off base.

And yes hes a made a few mistakes but answer me this, do you consider making the playoffs (and getting crushed) as a sub.500 team in the Eastern Conference is a greater accomplishment than being a .500 9th seed in the significantly stronger conference? I dont.



This guy doesn't really seem to be able to get guys to want to come and stay. He's got Howard and Ariza. The rest have been trades. Some worked and others failed. Overall he's been thoroughly average in free agency. I don't understand the belief in him, but whatever. If I was a Rockets fan I wouldn't be confident at all.

He got Harden to stay and hes actually gotten Ariza to come TWICE. And hes always getting serious consideration in free agency. I mean, what player have they actually lost in free agency that they should have retained but couldn't? I dont think he fails to retain guys, he just has better alternative in mind. Like he could have overpaid to keep a bunch of guys, but he weighs the risks differently than most.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 02:43 PM
but if he didn't do that he have to stand on his record and be nothing but a nameless relatively competent basketball exc. this way people are fooled into thinking he is interesting.

Yeah, do things like put his last name in 2 story tall letters on his building ... oh wait, that's a different blow-hard.

"Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the MOREY Center, brought to you by Toyota!"

Tony_Starks
05-02-2016, 02:50 PM
Rebuilt so many teams? The guy took over in 2007 and rebuilt the core 1 time. Yes, LMAO @ your gullible faith in this guy.

The team has gotten nowhere in the post season. In free agency you can credit him with Howard, but if we want to knit pick he lost Dragić to a pathetic $7.5M contract bid, who in hindsight would have probably been a stellar fit with the core he later built and wouldn't have hindered the Howard signing. Parsons basically did everything possible to leave him high and dry. Josh Smith left for the minimum, that's how little he wanted to continue playing there.

This guy doesn't really seem to be able to get guys to want to come and stay. He's got Howard and Ariza. The rest have been trades. Some worked and others failed. Overall he's been thoroughly average in free agency. I don't understand the belief in him, but whatever. If I was a Rockets fan I wouldn't be confident at all.

You left out signing not 1 but 2 poison pill contracts to the great Omer Asik and the player he proclaimed will be a future allstar, who's jersey he then later used to chase Melo....Jeremy Lin!

houstonfan
05-02-2016, 03:08 PM
I can't believe how many people in this thread don't think other teams plant stories to try to mess up what a team has going on... Where do you think the Lebron and Kevin Love not getting along rumors come from? Where do you think the Durant to the Warriors rumors came from??? The Warriors just set the record for most wins in a season so if you can find a way to ruin the chemistry you try it. This happens all the time in all sports. Morey is just saying it's not as bad as some of these stories are making it out to be. He knows he screwed up and he knows he will probably have to blow this team up and I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of the blame for their failures this year but a lot of these "Harden and Howard hate each other" from "league sources" reports could easily be exaggerated to make free agents not want to go to Houston.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 03:27 PM
I can't believe how many people in this thread don't think other teams plant stories to try to mess up what a team has going on... Where do you think the Lebron and Kevin Love not getting along rumors come from? Where do you think the Durant to the Warriors rumors came from??? The Warriors just set the record for most wins in a season so if you can find a way to ruin the chemistry you try it. This happens all the time in all sports. Morey is just saying it's not as bad as some of these stories are making it out to be. He knows he screwed up and he knows he will probably have to blow this team up and I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of the blame for their failures this year but a lot of these "Harden and Howard hate each other" from "league sources" reports could easily be exaggerated to make free agents not want to go to Houston.

It's not about the stories to me ... it's a GM crying to the media about a conspiracy of NBA teams out to get him and his little team that could. It's just bizarre. And this year more than most the teams don't have to say or do anything for all free-agents to have an idea what like in Houston was like this year.

Saddletramp
05-02-2016, 03:38 PM
Unless you have a different definition of 2007, you sound either ignorant or like someone who discounts his influence on purpose. He actually took over in 2006 but it wasn't his official title, still anyone who actually knows the subject you mock me for, KNOWS he was calling the shots for big moves.
He inherited a core that couldn't win without Tmac and turned them into a team that could push the champs to 7 without Yao. Then there was the stretch where he moved into an asset collecting stage where the owner would refuse to tank, kept the team above .500 and then nabbed Harden and built a team around him. Added Dwight hoping for a 1-2 punch and an elite defensive team. How many times is that and why does that only count as 1 core when hes prolly had the most transactions in that same span? Could be semantics but your inability to grasp that concept and continue to stick with your false narrative is a bad look for you.


The team made the WCF and has stayed competitive throughout the decade, during the hardest stretch in Western Conference history. Now, if you want to argue thats going nowhere then you have to show me where he says hes going anywhere he hasnt, which brings me back to my original point. Unless you know the criticism against his team, I dont see the point you're making. I dont think hes proclaiming that the Rockets have been THE best team in the NBA over a decade, just citing reasons why he thinks the criticism is off base.

And yes hes a made a few mistakes but answer me this, do you consider making the playoffs (and getting crushed) as a sub.500 team in the Eastern Conference is a greater accomplishment than being a .500 9th seed in the significantly stronger conference? I dont.



He got Harden to stay and hes actually gotten Ariza to come TWICE. And hes always getting serious consideration in free agency. I mean, what player have they actually lost in free agency that they should have retained but couldn't? I dont think he fails to retain guys, he just has better alternative in mind. Like he could have overpaid to keep a bunch of guys, but he weighs the risks differently than most.

Thanks, you've said basically exactly what I've wanted to say a few times already, just more thoughtfully. I wasn't going to get in this thread because anything he says will just bring out the haters/trolls and not really help his cause, whether he's right or wrong. I didn't even the article but I figure the guys that are critical wouldn't understand what he's saying so I figured I'd just ignore it. But it did bring up some bs points that you've already shattered, like:

Of course he's rebuilt the Rockets a few times in the decade he's been there and that's with getting nothing in return for Yao and below what TMac was worth (although by the time he traded TMac, he still got more than what TMac was worry at the time).

Morey also didn't get to tank for years to get multiple top ten picks (I'm not even sure when his last top ten pick was, come to think of it). You look at the top teams now and a lot have at least a few top ten pick guys (GS, OKC) and a few other teams have gotten to build around a top pick overall (SAS, Cle, LAC).

And a lot of guys still want to play here (not sure about the KD/Blake level but Howard did come here, Bosh almost did come here (and if Wade retired or Bosh didn't love the Miami life, he probably would've come over and that would have made Morey match on Parsons-----remember, it was going to be Bev/Harden/Parsons/Bosh/Howard? Assuming they all stay healthy and this was before Bosh's blood stuff; that'd be a tough team and he would have built it off of hardly anything). Lowry took a meeting a few years back to maybe come back.

And he's kept free agents lately, too. But at the right price (except he's overpaid Brewer). He let Courtney Lee walk and Dragic, too. Dragic, at the time, wasn't worth that extra year for flexibility purposes. Ariza came back for less than I thought he could get. And that poison pill that Asik got that Tony Starks scoffed at landed a mid teen first rounder and Asik was a serviceable big man for two years. And don't forget, if McHale, who started a lot more of this mess than people give him credit for would've put Asik on Aldridge earlier in the that series, it probably would've ended differently. And you can't blame him for the Lin signing, either. It was a good signing and now he's playing a lot better without the pressures he had post-Linsanity and without the LA life (and Kobe) breathing down his neck.

TL/DR. More people saying dumb things. Thanks for setting up when most others don't feel inclined to hassle with it.

Saddletramp
05-02-2016, 03:41 PM
And Sccots, you don't remember a few weeks ago when Lacob basically said that Curry was great and all, but he and his FO guys deserve just as much of the credit? Oh, that's right...... The media sweeps up anything negative if it has to do with the Warriors.

houstonfan
05-02-2016, 03:43 PM
It's not about the stories to me ... it's a GM crying to the media about a conspiracy of NBA teams out to get him and his little team that could. It's just bizarre. And this year more than most the teams don't have to say or do anything for all free-agents to have an idea what like in Houston was like this year.

But he's not saying there's a league wide conspiracy is he? What part of the quote does he say that? I think he's saying exactly what the Warriors could say: "look don't believe everything you read. Other teams do make stuff up." I thought the Durant to the Warriors rumor was hilarious because no matter how good Durant is, the Warriors would be dumb to break that situation up. Morey is a smart guy, he knows it's a long shot that the Rockets can get a big free agent this offseason and it will take a while to repair the damage of firing McHale. But the team can still be built around Harden and him saying these things is him trying to make sure free agents don't believe everything they hear. I will gladly admit that he's being an idiot if you can show me the quotes that make him sound like he thinks there is a league wide conspiracy though.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 03:57 PM
Unless you have a different definition of 2007, you sound either ignorant or like someone who discounts his influence on purpose. He actually took over in 2006 but it wasn't his official title, still anyone who actually knows the subject you mock me for, KNOWS he was calling the shots for big moves.
He inherited a core that couldn't win without Tmac and turned them into a team that could push the champs to 7 without Yao. Then there was the stretch where he moved into an asset collecting stage where the owner would refuse to tank, kept the team above .500 and then nabbed Harden and built a team around him. Added Dwight hoping for a 1-2 punch and an elite defensive team. How many times is that and why does that only count as 1 core when hes prolly had the most transactions in that same span? Could be semantics but your inability to grasp that concept and continue to stick with your false narrative is a bad look for you.


The team made the WCF and has stayed competitive throughout the decade, during the hardest stretch in Western Conference history. Now, if you want to argue thats going nowhere then you have to show me where he says hes going anywhere he hasnt, which brings me back to my original point. Unless you know the criticism against his team, I dont see the point you're making. I dont think hes proclaiming that the Rockets have been THE best team in the NBA over a decade, just citing reasons why he thinks the criticism is off base.

And yes hes a made a few mistakes but answer me this, do you consider making the playoffs (and getting crushed) as a sub.500 team in the Eastern Conference is a greater accomplishment than being a .500 9th seed in the significantly stronger conference? I dont.



He got Harden to stay and hes actually gotten Ariza to come TWICE. And hes always getting serious consideration in free agency. I mean, what player have they actually lost in free agency that they should have retained but couldn't? I dont think he fails to retain guys, he just has better alternative in mind. Like he could have overpaid to keep a bunch of guys, but he weighs the risks differently than most.

I feel like I'm totally wasting my time at this point. He had a core of McGrady, Yao, Battier, and Skip when he got the team. You talk as if he brought in that group. Whatever type of revisionist BS you're trying to pitch to me I'm not buying. This is the same core they had until they had the lull years with Kmart. He added a couple complimentary players like Mutombo and Scola. He didn't rebuild the core.

Secondly what point are you trying to pitch with sub .500 team making the playoffs in the East? How is that relevant at all? Miami never did that, and that's the only how I can see you even trying to remain on topic. So please explain where the hell that's coming from.

He swung a nice trade to get Harden and he added Howard in free agency. Those are his biggest accomplishments in transactions and free agency. Getting mediocre role players like over the hill Mutombo, Scola, Ariza and such shouldn't even be mentioned to bolster his resume. Those are total overlook moves nobody cares about. If you want to overlook certain trends, fine by me man. He traded for Dragić as a one year rental and he left for tiny contract. He traded a 1st and other pieces for Artest and again he was a 1yr rental. He does good and grabs Parsons but he can't hold onto him. Smith leaves for less money than Rockets were reportedly offering. These are trends to me, if they're not to you, so be it. But the past 2 summers he's had cap space and didn't get his primary targets.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 04:05 PM
To his credit he does at some point attempt to take ownership of this debacle, but it's really lost in all his hogwash.

The idea that teams have to basically conspire to discredit a visibly dysfunctional, super mediocre team that barely made the playoffs is really a joke.

If anything it's ironic he points the fingers at others making bad press for them when it's his own grandiose, self serving, arrogant and sometimes idiotic public comments that make him and the Rockets easy targets when they fail.
Like I said in my first post, he's an overall positive for Houston, but he's certainly a deranged douche.

Saddletramp
05-02-2016, 04:14 PM
I feel like I'm totally wasting my time at this point. He had a core of McGrady, Yao, Battier, and Skip when he got the team. You talk as if he brought in that group. Whatever type of revisionist BS you're trying to pitch to me I'm not buying. This is the same core they had until they had the lull years with Kmart. He added a couple complimentary players like Mutombo and Scola. He didn't rebuild the core.

Secondly what point are you trying to pitch with sub .500 team making the playoffs in the East? How is that relevant at all? Miami never did that, and that's the only how I can see you even trying to remain on topic. So please explain where the hell that's coming from.

He swung a nice trade to get Harden and he added Howard in free agency. Those are his biggest accomplishments in transactions and free agency. Getting mediocre role players like over the hill Mutombo, Scola, Ariza and such shouldn't even be mentioned to bolster his resume. Those are total overlook moves nobody cares about. If you want to overlook certain trends, fine by me man. He traded for Dragić as a one year rental and he left for tiny contract. He traded a 1st and other pieces for Artest and again he was a 1yr rental. He does good and grabs Parsons but he can't hold onto him. Smith leaves for less money than Rockets were reportedly offering. These are trends to me, if they're not to you, so be it. But the past 2 summers he's had cap space and didn't get his primary targets.

He totally rebuilt the core. Twice. He was given TMac and Yao and turned that core into Scola/KMart/Brooks/Lowry and turned that into Harden/Howard/Parsons. Parsons is gone and Howard is leaving relatively soon so he'll have to re-camp it again.

And he could've re-rained Parsons. He just didn't want to because he wasn't worth the money; ask Mavs fans.

Snakeyestx
05-02-2016, 04:16 PM
What we're witnessing are the desperate delusions of a man about to lose his job.

As a 23-year-long Rockets fan, I think it's safe to say that it is truly time to #FireTheFatass and that #AnalyticsAreBulls**t

Give the HC and GM position to George Karl or Mark Jackson and start righting this sinking ship we call the team of the 4th largest city in the US. :(

Saddletramp
05-02-2016, 04:22 PM
What we're witnessing are the desperate delusions of a man about to lose his job.

As a 23-year-long Rockets fan, I think it's safe to say that it is truly time to #FireTheFatass and that #AnalyticsAreBulls**t

Give the HC and GM position to George Karl or Mark Jackson and start righting this sinking ship we call the team of the 4th largest city in the US. :(

Analytics aren't BS, but you have to shuffle it with chemistry. Each fail on their own.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 04:22 PM
And Sccots, you don't remember a few weeks ago when Lacob basically said that Curry was great and all, but he and his FO guys deserve just as much of the credit? Oh, that's right...... The media sweeps up anything negative if it has to do with the Warriors.

Oh, I remember that, and I thought he was an idiot for saying it.

Snakeyestx
05-02-2016, 04:26 PM
Analytics aren't BS, but you have to shuffle it with chemistry. Each fail on their own.

There have been teams that per-individual stats weren't stellar, but as a cohesive unit were championship winners. The GM needs to be a manager of personalities and egos, a master of player psychology, and maybe numbers second. Morey is literally an "All numbers, all the time" experiment that should be judged as a resounding failure after this season.

Scoots
05-02-2016, 04:32 PM
But he's not saying there's a league wide conspiracy is he? What part of the quote does he say that?

"All the articles you see out there are other teams I think very smartly trying to paint our situation as negative" ... he's not saying a couple people, or even a couple people in the NBA, he's saying ALL the articles you see about the Rockets are coming from other teams, as in organizations who are putting on a comprehensive smear campaign. It's an expansive statement and it's paranoia.

I never said nobody has anything against him, nor did I say that other GMs never try to defend their teams or players. The part I have a problem with is when he says that ALL the news you see about the rockets is coming from "other teams" and not, for instance, the media covering his team or the media covering the NBA in general.

I've been saying from the beginning that other teams don't need to do anything as the media (on their own) and his own players are doing a fine job of painting the Rockets as a not nice place to work for the last year.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 04:36 PM
He totally rebuilt the core. Twice. He was given TMac and Yao and turned that core into Scola/KMart/Brooks/Lowry and turned that into Harden/Howard/Parsons. Parsons is gone and Howard is leaving relatively soon so he'll have to re-camp it again.

And he could've re-rained Parsons. He just didn't want to because he wasn't worth the money; ask Mavs fans.

So you count rebuilding a core with no definitive improvement? I guess that's where we disagree.

When I talk of the GM of my own team, Pat Riley, I always say he had rebuilt the core 3 times. But by your standard, he rebuilt the team... Let's count...
1st trading for Mourning and Hardaway. Then rebuilt again getting Mashburn and Majerle, then rebuilt again when he got Eddie Jones and Anthony Mason and Brian Grant, then rebuilt again when he got Odom and Wade and Caron, then rebuilt again when he got Shaq, then rebuilt again when he swapped Eddie and Damon Jones for J-Will and Posey and Shimmy Shake, then rebuilt again when he got Beasley and Jermaine, then rebuilt again for the Big 3, and rebuilt again with Deng and Dragić and Whiteside. So how many times is that?

You see I don't count it that way. The Brooks, Lowry and Martin years they didn't even make the playoffs consistently. That's just keeping them afloat like when Riley transitioned from the Morning and Timmy core to Mason, Eddie and Grant.

For me a core is something you build around. Just like Riley had no intention to build around 35 yr old Mason and such, the Rockets had no intention on building around Mr. Glass and Lowry who was a bit of a recluse back then.

houstonfan
05-02-2016, 04:52 PM
What we're witnessing are the desperate delusions of a man about to lose his job.

As a 23-year-long Rockets fan, I think it's safe to say that it is truly time to #FireTheFatass and that #AnalyticsAreBulls**t

Give the HC and GM position to George Karl or Mark Jackson and start righting this sinking ship we call the team of the 4th largest city in the US. :(

😂😂😂😂😂 George Karl or Mark Jackson are your choices???? How can you watch the NBA for 23 years and want one of those two guys to not only coach but run the front office operations too???? Morey isn't going anywhere.

Saddletramp
05-02-2016, 06:00 PM
So you count rebuilding a core with no definitive improvement? I guess that's where we disagree.

When I talk of the GM of my own team, Pat Riley, I always say he had rebuilt the core 3 times. But by your standard, he rebuilt the team... Let's count...
1st trading for Mourning and Hardaway. Then rebuilt again getting Mashburn and Majerle, then rebuilt again when he got Eddie Jones and Anthony Mason and Brian Grant, then rebuilt again when he got Odom and Wade and Caron, then rebuilt again when he got Shaq, then rebuilt again when he swapped Eddie and Damon Jones for J-Will and Posey and Shimmy Shake, then rebuilt again when he got Beasley and Jermaine, then rebuilt again for the Big 3, and rebuilt again with Deng and Dragić and Whiteside. So how many times is that?

You see I don't count it that way. The Brooks, Lowry and Martin years they didn't even make the playoffs consistently. That's just keeping them afloat like when Riley transitioned from the Morning and Timmy core to Mason, Eddie and Grant.

For me a core is something you build around. Just like Riley had no intention to build around 35 yr old Mason and such, the Rockets had no intention on building around Mr. Glass and Lowry who was a bit of a recluse back then.

It's still building a core. The Wolves right now have a core of a bunch of young guys but they're still a ways a way. Tweak it a bit and they'll be playoff contenders. But right now, they're still losing like always. Pretty sure Wolves fans are happy with what the team has done despite not being much better. You don't have to jump 30 wins between cores to mean that you've built a different core.

Morey wasn't allowed to tank to rebuild the core so he got what he could get to stay competitive. If he would have just traded TMac for picks only and not gotten Scola for nothing and other little moves than yeah, that's not rebuilding a core, that's tanking. But if he did, he wouldn't have had the assets to land Harden and then get Howard, they new core that he built.

He re-built it with s lot of different players and each had their own coach. The TMac/Yao years he was handed had JVG, then Adelman came in when they went with Martin/Brooks/Scola and then McHale when Harden arrived then they got Howard. Not every player matched up precisely with each coach but close enough. Their cores basically did.

beasted86
05-02-2016, 06:55 PM
It's still building a core. The Wolves right now have a core of a bunch of young guys but they're still a ways a way. Tweak it a bit and they'll be playoff contenders. But right now, they're still losing like always. Pretty sure Wolves fans are happy with what the team has done despite not being much better. You don't have to jump 30 wins between cores to mean that you've built a different core.

Morey wasn't allowed to tank to rebuild the core so he got what he could get to stay competitive. If he would have just traded TMac for picks only and not gotten Scola for nothing and other little moves than yeah, that's not rebuilding a core, that's tanking. But if he did, he wouldn't have had the assets to land Harden and then get Howard, they new core that he built.

He re-built it with s lot of different players and each had their own coach. The TMac/Yao years he was handed had JVG, then Adelman came in when they went with Martin/Brooks/Scola and then McHale when Harden arrived then they got Howard. Not every player matched up precisely with each coach but close enough. Their cores basically did.

The Wolves are attempting to build around Wiggins, Towns, Rubio and Lavine or will trade one or two of those for a major piece to establish a set core.

I still contend that the Rockets never tried or intended to build around Lowry, Scola, and Martin. Those were just players they used to transition to the Harden core.

Nonetheless to begin with the guy said he rebuilt the team 'so many times' and even by your count (I disagree with anyhow) it's only been twice. Either way he's way off target.

Saddletramp
05-03-2016, 02:05 AM
The Wolves are attempting to build around Wiggins, Towns, Rubio and Lavine or will trade one or two of those for a major piece to establish a set core.

I still contend that the Rockets never tried or intended to build around Lowry, Scola, and Martin. Those were just players they used to transition to the Harden core.

Nonetheless to begin with the guy said he rebuilt the team 'so many times' and even by your count (I disagree with anyhow) it's only been twice. Either way he's way off target.

But that was still the core that they built after Yao retired and TMac got too hurt to matter. Of course what he made out of those guys wasn't championship material but it was pretty good considering he didn't have the option of tanking or doing a complete from the ground up rebuild. And he took that core and turned it into the WCF team. Not too shabby and we'll see what he does going forward.

Lowry had to go because of clashes with McHale (and he later said he regretted it), KMart was the main player involved in the Harden deal and Scola was amnestied because everyone wanted him back but as soon as the contract was signed, everyone knew it was a mistake at that price.

Honestly, if those guys had stayed and one game changer would've signed, it could've been a bit different. I see what you're saying (that those weren't centerpiece, hang our hat on them to win guys) but it was still a serviceable core that barely missed the playoffs every year and led them to the top 4 percentage finish without ever needing a complete rebuild. Morey is like that guy that had a paper clip and keptvtradingup until he eventually got a mansion or whatever. I just think he's going to need to retool his philosophy a bit to make that final step and I'm not sure he'll be able to acquire it if Howard leaves for nothing.

warfelg
05-03-2016, 08:09 AM
Morey needs to take a page out of his protégés book. Shut the hell up.

But if there is one criticism you can have of both guys, it's the overreliance of number and under reliance on team construction.

Tony_Starks
05-03-2016, 10:36 AM
Morey needs to take a page out of his protégés book. Shut the hell up.

But if there is one criticism you can have of both guys, it's the overreliance of number and under reliance on team construction.

Also under reliance on evaluating the player as a actual person, something else the numbers won't tell you.

The numbers cant tell you who's a good leader, who's a good teammate, who will or won't give you problems off the court, who's going to play hard regardless of how many touches they get or minutes they get.

Scoots
05-03-2016, 11:58 AM
So, this was a thread about another bizarre Morey statement, then it became about how all GMs say the same thing, then about analytics being under attack, then about Morey being a good GM, then what constituted a rebuild, and now back to analytics being under attack.

I guess we are done about Morey's original statement now?

Does anybody think Morey is not going to be running this team next year? I certainly assume he'll be around at least another year.

Tony_Starks
05-03-2016, 04:17 PM
So, this was a thread about another bizarre Morey statement, then it became about how all GMs say the same thing, then about analytics being under attack, then about Morey being a good GM, then what constituted a rebuild, and now back to analytics being under attack.

I guess we are done about Morey's original statement now?

Does anybody think Morey is not going to be running this team next year? I certainly assume he'll be around at least another year.

I think he will. One more season, then he will be the fall guy with no coaches or other teams to blame. All on him.

I also firmly believe that after the next failure he will be prideful enough to quit before he gets fired.

FOXHOUND
05-03-2016, 04:20 PM
Morey has one more year, everything is riding on this FA for him.

Scoots
05-03-2016, 04:37 PM
Morey has one more year, everything is riding on this FA for him.

If he hires a great coach and gets good progress this year he very well could be around for a long time even if they don't win better next year.

Chronz
05-03-2016, 09:28 PM
There have been teams that per-individual stats weren't stellar, but as a cohesive unit were championship winners. The GM needs to be a manager of personalities and egos, a master of player psychology, and maybe numbers second. Morey is literally an "All numbers, all the time" experiment that should be judged as a resounding failure after this season.
What?

I want to call BS but Im trying this new thing called patience. Define "weren't stellar? because by my definition there have been, quite literally, ZERO champions that lacked stellar performers production wise.

Its funny, I remember Morey saying he got the job because he was about more than numbers, but his resounding success on that front with management has endeared him to the point where hes seen as some sort of diety that cant afford to make a mistake. I've seen nothing to back your assertions, someone who is all about the numbers doesn't take a chance on Josh Smith, IMO anyways. He got Smoove cuz he was talented and shared a rapport with Dwight. If that doesn't scream CHEMISTRY MOVE, then nothing will. Go on and pass off your false narrative

Chronz
05-03-2016, 09:34 PM
You left out signing not 1 but 2 poison pill contracts to the great Omer Asik and the player he proclaimed will be a future allstar, who's jersey he then later used to chase Melo....Jeremy Lin!

Wait, are you actually arguing against those moves? Morey's failure had to do with prioritizing the wrong PG's, but those were actually great alternative. Poison pill? Correct me if Im wrong but didn't the Lakers foot the last portion of that bill, you know, the actual poison? Im honestly asking cuz I could've sworn Morey found no difficulty in jettisoning those players you deemed poisonous.

Chronz
05-03-2016, 09:35 PM
Like i said he has proven to be competent. He didn't invent stats. Sorry but I fail to see what all the hubbub is about.
Thats likely because you judge a GM's intelligence by "hey, this guy got Bron-Wade-Bosh", what a GENIOUS MOVE!!!

Scoots
05-03-2016, 09:51 PM
What?

I want to call BS but Im trying this new thing called patience. Define "weren't stellar? because by my definition there have been, quite literally, ZERO champions that lacked stellar performers production wise.

Pistons

Chronz
05-03-2016, 09:57 PM
I feel like I'm totally wasting my time at this point. He had a core of McGrady, Yao, Battier, and Skip when he got the team.
You are wasting both of ours. No, he ADDED Battier, you can say he inherited the pick that led to the trade for Battier but I highly doubt you knew he was behind that if you think he took over a year later.


You talk as if he brought in that group. Whatever type of revisionist BS you're trying to pitch to me I'm not buying. This is the same core they had until they had the lull years with Kmart. He added a couple complimentary players like Mutombo and Scola. He didn't rebuild the core.
Heres the thing, its impossible to pretend Im pitching anything when I've cited nothing but facts. Consider this, he took over a GM who was already considered among the best (he did trade for Tmac, afterall) but he failed in finding support for his 1-2 punch. Morey stole Scola from the Spurs but that was a no brainer move that I dont credit him much for. What Morey did is find undervalued diamonds in the rough come draft time, if not for injuries to Mac-Yao, he would have built a nice squad around them.


Secondly what point are you trying to pitch with sub .500 team making the playoffs in the East? How is that relevant at all? Miami never did that, and that's the only how I can see you even trying to remain on topic. So please explain where the hell that's coming from.

WOAH!!! Bro, take a step back. Not everything has to do with your precious "HEAT"(I know how much you HEAT fans love them caps), my point has to do with you pointing the years they missed the playoffs as some sort of failure when they sported better records/efficiency than actual playoff teams in the East. The Rockets got Harden and Dwight to stay because they saw the potential of the Rockets sustained success.


He swung a nice trade to get Harden and he added Howard in free agency. Those are his biggest accomplishments in transactions and free agency. Getting mediocre role players like over the hill Mutombo, Scola, Ariza and such shouldn't even be mentioned to bolster his resume. Those are total overlook moves nobody cares about. If you want to overlook certain trends, fine by me man. He traded for Dragić as a one year rental and he left for tiny contract. He traded a 1st and other pieces for Artest and again he was a 1yr rental. He does good and grabs Parsons but he can't hold onto him. Smith leaves for less money than Rockets were reportedly offering. These are trends to me, if they're not to you, so be it. But the past 2 summers he's had cap space and didn't get his primary targets.Actually, he got Ariza right smack in the middle of his prime and then tossed him for equal value replacements whilst retaining CAP flexibility. See, to me the genius isn't in signing Howard or trading for Harden, its building up the core, the assets/flexibility without tanking, the over-performance of his draft picks relative to their position that convinces those players to come in the first place.

See, Morey didn't inherit a superstar, he didn't get a chance to draft one in the lottery, no. Morey built up a team of role players, literally turned those role players into a MIP's and used their contributions to a winning cause to entice teams to trade for them, all the while winning every trade and slowly building the cache necessary to pull off the heist of a decade. Stealing a LEGIT MVP before his prime from a CONTENDER.

Now as much as you want to downplay that accomplishment or chop it up as some sort of sheer luck, that would truly be revisionist history. Hate to break the news for you but the elite teams dont just have the window to entice a Chris Bosh to a contender without immense planning. I still dont know what you guys are *****ing about, Morey is sticking up for his franchise and his franchise player. Would you rather him sell out like Lacob?

Man imagine if Morey won a chip and just took so much credit that he announced it to the world dude would get crucified. Lacob gets a pass tho

Chronz
05-03-2016, 10:08 PM
Pistons
The best defensive team of all-time? The team with the 2nd most efficient PG of his generation (Behind only Nash) who happened to be an All-Defensive talent? Its because of people like you I made so much money off them.

Chronz
05-03-2016, 10:16 PM
So, this was a thread about another bizarre Morey statement, then it became about how all GMs say the same thing, then about analytics being under attack, then about Morey being a good GM, then what constituted a rebuild, and now back to analytics being under attack.

I guess we are done about Morey's original statement now?

Does anybody think Morey is not going to be running this team next year? I certainly assume he'll be around at least another year.

I highly doubt it, which is saying alot considering how long hes had the job. Simply put, hes really only had 1 dismal year in which he let down his owner. Analytics being under attack is the result of people not understanding where their game has gone so I usually try to ignore those lames.

ewing
05-03-2016, 10:38 PM
Thats likely because you judge a GM's intelligence by "hey, this guy got Bron-Wade-Bosh", what a GENIOUS MOVE!!!

your right this guy has a lot more sustained success then Pat Riley. I bet Riles only uses the eye test and what he hears from his buds- dinosaur. old people are sooooo dumb M I RITE?

ewing
05-03-2016, 10:45 PM
I highly doubt it, which is saying alot considering how long hes had the job. Simply put, hes really only had 1 dismal year in which he let down his owner. Analytics being under attack is the result of people not understanding where their game has gone so I usually try to ignore those lames.

“Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.” - Orwell

FOXHOUND
05-03-2016, 10:48 PM
If he hires a great coach and gets good progress this year he very well could be around for a long time even if they don't win better next year.

Yeah, that's what I mean. If he messes up this coach hire/strikes out in FA, he's gone. I don't think he could survive another 41-win season that barely enters the playoffs either. He has Harden to build around and after that WCF run I can't imagine the owner will accept another season like that.

ewing
05-03-2016, 10:56 PM
Thats likely because you judge a GM's intelligence by "hey, this guy got Bron-Wade-Bosh", what a GENIOUS MOVE!!!


you know Riley left my knicks in 95? He has been running that franchise for 20 years. Look at how good they have been. Look at how he turned around my knicks from the bench after winning 4 title on the Laker bench. are you really mocking Riles in comparison to this guy?

ewing
05-03-2016, 10:57 PM
Pat Riley is a legend. Daryl Morey is a foot note

FOXHOUND
05-03-2016, 11:02 PM
Yeah, comparing Daryl Morey to Pat Riley is ridiculously insulting lol.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 01:15 AM
The best defensive team of all-time? The team with the 2nd most efficient PG of his generation (Behind only Nash) who happened to be an All-Defensive talent? Its because of people like you I made so much money off them.

They didn't have A stellar performer. They were a great team that had no superstars.

I don't understand the betting comment. I bet on them because they were a great team going up against a more talented bunch of individuals.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 01:17 AM
I highly doubt it, which is saying alot considering how long hes had the job. Simply put, hes really only had 1 dismal year in which he let down his owner. Analytics being under attack is the result of people not understanding where their game has gone so I usually try to ignore those lames.

Just for clarity you said "I highly doubt it" but that wasn't to "I certainly assume he'll be around at least another year." right?

FOXHOUND
05-04-2016, 11:14 AM
Here's the thing, he may not even make it to the regular season. I think that's an extreme example but it isn't unprecedented with dysfunctional organizations. The Knicks, for example, fired their GM in September right before going from 54-win team to 37-win team. Why? Probably because he traded a 1st round pick for Andrea Bargnani, and that was their "best addition" that offseason lol.

The Rockets will have cap space to chase FAs and Harden, but what if they strike out? What if he loses Howard and strikes out on any big FAs? There's a ton of team with loads of cap space and it wouldn't surprise me if the top players weren't lining up to play with Harden and his selfish nonsense. That would be a major step back as an organization and it may not take until the season for the owner to pull the plug. If he can't attract FA's with Harden as a chip then he's toast.

Htownballa1622
05-04-2016, 11:23 AM
I've thoroughly enjoyed Chronz serve the ignorant about matters which they clearly don't know much about.

I don't have the energy to address everything he has but I 1000% agree with him.

Tony_Starks
05-04-2016, 01:09 PM
Why do fans support this clown? He's a douche, even if he's an overall positive for Houston.http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/39.gif http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/7.gif
http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/8.gif

Lol

No matter what is said this seems to be the simple summary of the matter...

Scoots
05-04-2016, 01:20 PM
Lol

No matter what is said this seems to be the simple summary of the matter...

Well, that poster created an account, made 5 posts and was banned. Chances are he wasn't coming at it from a completely rational position.

Tony_Starks
05-04-2016, 01:24 PM
Well, that poster created an account, made 5 posts and was banned. Chances are he wasn't coming at it from a completely rational position.

Oh wow, wasn't paying attention to that.

Saddletramp
05-04-2016, 02:18 PM
That's actually a bot. Just copying and pasting someone else's thoughts. So, at least you have those guys on your side!

Saddletramp
05-04-2016, 02:19 PM
I've thoroughly enjoyed Chronz serve the ignorant about matters which they clearly don't know much about.

I don't have the energy to address everything he has but I 1000% agree with him.

I 1000% agree with you 1000% agreeing with chronz.

FOXHOUND
05-04-2016, 02:29 PM
That's actually a bot. Just copying and pasting someone else's thoughts. So, at least you have those guys on your side!

Hinkie also had his disciples, and they couldn't see his oncoming demise either. Morey isn't there yet but he will be if he fails during this offseason.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 02:31 PM
I 1000% agree with you 1000% agreeing with chronz.

I wouldn't even agree 100% with everything anybody said, let alone 10 times that! You are a brave and trusting sort :)

Saddletramp
05-04-2016, 05:08 PM
I wouldn't even agree 100% with everything anybody said, let alone 10 times that! You are a brave and trusting sort :)

I 100% agree with you.

Scoots
05-04-2016, 11:23 PM
When the interim coach says he doesn't want to be considered for the head coaching gig ... that is not "other teams" saying something about your team Daryl.

Saddletramp
05-04-2016, 11:52 PM
When the interim coach says he doesn't want to be considered for the head coaching gig ... that is not "other teams" saying something about your team Daryl.

First I've heard of this but I highly doubted they were going to give it to him. Sounds more like a "I don't want the promotion before I'm denied it" sorta thing.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 12:19 AM
First I've heard of this but I highly doubted they were going to give it to him. Sounds more like a "I don't want the promotion before I'm denied it" sorta thing.

That's one way to spin it sure ... but it's unusual for an interim coach to say he doesn't want the job regardless.

Supposedly other teams were reaching out to JB to take a lead assistant gig

DoMeFavors
05-05-2016, 12:44 AM
Rockets need a new identity, they need to let Dwight walk and pickup a cheaper C. Then use cap space and add depth. They need to hire Jeff Van Gundy and James Harden needs to be focused.

FOXHOUND
05-05-2016, 03:06 AM
That's one way to spin it sure ... but it's unusual for an interim coach to say he doesn't want the job regardless.

Supposedly other teams were reaching out to JB to take a lead assistant gig

Wow, he must have really hated coaching Harden. I've never seen an interim coach throw in the towel on the opportunity to coach an elite player in his prime before.

Sssmush
05-05-2016, 05:07 AM
I really like Morey's line in the interview where he says other teams lost in the first round just like the Rockets did, but they are supposedly teams with great team chemistry and teamwork etc. Which also ties in with what he says about expectations--that the high expectations are specifically because the Rockets have had success and have such good players on the team.

The reference to teams that have such good reputations and supposedly great team chemistry etc seems clearly to be a reference to the Boston Celtics.

Which points to the fact that these kind of media stories or public perceptions or the team's or exec's manipulation of perceptions and stories to create a narrative like "Houston blah blah blah bad" or whatever are largely rooted in a kind of aesthetics.

Like Boston may lose in five or six games to a mediocre Atlanta team, while Houston comes apart and loses in five games to (literally) the best team in the history of the NBA, record-wise. But hey, Houston fired their coach, James Harden has a long beard, Josh Smith has tattoos, Dwight Howard has a bad attitude and seems to be dogging it, so Houston is the worst team in the league and Daryl Morey is a complete incompetent.

Meanwhile Boston has drafted "promising young talent" and has a good looking young coach who is "a swell guy" and "really clean cut" and "just a tremendous individual" and "unquestionably a great coach" and their team has great teamwork, i.e., very few tattoos, pass the ball, effort on defense, no stars, hustle around, hustle back to the huddle to listen attentitively to their good-looking young clean cut college coach, etc etc.
So because they hired a college coach and then got draft picks from the absurd Brooklyn trades to get some young players from the draft, Isaiah Thomas is charismatic, etc...

so therefore the Celtics are somehow the model of everything that's right with the NBA, while the Rockets are a franchise in utter freefall and the product of complete negligence and incompetence by Morey. Even though the Celtics rolled over and lost easily in the first round of the Eastern playoffs, whereas if Houston was in the East they would be an almost certain ECF team and widely regarded as the #1 threat to knock out the Cavaliers.

PhillyFaninLA
05-05-2016, 05:45 AM
Do you honestly think he believes what he said or is he trying divert attention?
Jesus Christ get your head out of your ***.

Personally, I think he takes no accountability for the state of the team, so rather than look inwardly and make things better he blames others. If he took accountability for the state of the team then he wouldn't say this.

beasted86
05-05-2016, 08:05 AM
Wow, he must have really hated coaching Harden. I've never seen an interim coach throw in the towel on the opportunity to coach an elite player in his prime before.

If you knew they fired the guy before you 11 games into a season following a WCF trip, would you just simply jump at any chance?

Me acting as JB, I'd need a lot of security. I'm talking like a minimum 4 year contract to take that Rockets head coaching job.

The Rockets' opening is probably the 2nd most volatile spot after the Kings right now. You're probably not going to be given much of a leash with either of their managements.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2016, 09:50 AM
Now they reportedly are interested in Kenny Smith to coach.

Obviously Morey doesn't watch inside the NBA. I would honestly trust half of you guys to coach my team before Kenny.

Scoots
05-05-2016, 10:24 AM
I really like Morey's line in the interview where he says other teams lost in the first round just like the Rockets did, but they are supposedly teams with great team chemistry and teamwork etc. Which also ties in with what he says about expectations--that the high expectations are specifically because the Rockets have had success and have such good players on the team.

The reference to teams that have such good reputations and supposedly great team chemistry etc seems clearly to be a reference to the Boston Celtics.

Which points to the fact that these kind of media stories or public perceptions or the team's or exec's manipulation of perceptions and stories to create a narrative like "Houston blah blah blah bad" or whatever are largely rooted in a kind of aesthetics.

Like Boston may lose in five or six games to a mediocre Atlanta team, while Houston comes apart and loses in five games to (literally) the best team in the history of the NBA, record-wise. But hey, Houston fired their coach, James Harden has a long beard, Josh Smith has tattoos, Dwight Howard has a bad attitude and seems to be dogging it, so Houston is the worst team in the league and Daryl Morey is a complete incompetent.

Meanwhile Boston has drafted "promising young talent" and has a good looking young coach who is "a swell guy" and "really clean cut" and "just a tremendous individual" and "unquestionably a great coach" and their team has great teamwork, i.e., very few tattoos, pass the ball, effort on defense, no stars, hustle around, hustle back to the huddle to listen attentitively to their good-looking young clean cut college coach, etc etc.
So because they hired a college coach and then got draft picks from the absurd Brooklyn trades to get some young players from the draft, Isaiah Thomas is charismatic, etc...

so therefore the Celtics are somehow the model of everything that's right with the NBA, while the Rockets are a franchise in utter freefall and the product of complete negligence and incompetence by Morey. Even though the Celtics rolled over and lost easily in the first round of the Eastern playoffs, whereas if Houston was in the East they would be an almost certain ECF team and widely regarded as the #1 threat to knock out the Cavaliers.

I think it's partly that Boston is coming up and the Rockets have been there and now the perception is they are going down. There are similar things about OKC if they fail again. A trend upward, followed by a plateau, followed by a dip tends to get similar negative talk while Boston is still trying to make it up there.

FOXHOUND
05-05-2016, 04:07 PM
If you knew they fired the guy before you 11 games into a season following a WCF trip, would you just simply jump at any chance?

Me acting as JB, I'd need a lot of security. I'm talking like a minimum 4 year contract to take that Rockets head coaching job.

The Rockets' opening is probably the 2nd most volatile spot after the Kings right now. You're probably not going to be given much of a leash with either of their managements.

Yeah, I agree. Rockets situation looks really iffy. They have Harden and a lot of cap space, but none of the other signed players currently there are all that great. A lot riding on FA and with stars wanting to play with Harden, who no one seems to like being around. Add JB Bickerstaff to that list.

The Kings look like they're about to start interviewing mascots with the way their search is going so far lmao.

Tony_Starks
05-06-2016, 12:05 PM
They are interviewing Mike Antoni for the job.

Please please please let Antoni be Hardens coach, with Morey as the gm.

It will be one big Saturday Night live skit!

Scoots
05-06-2016, 12:20 PM
They are interviewing Mike Antoni for the job.

Please please please let Antoni be Hardens coach, with Morey as the gm.

It will be one big Saturday Night live skit!

I don't know which name to correct your spelling on.

It's either Mike Antoni and James Haren ... or it's Mike D'Antoni and James Harden. You can't mix and match :)

Tony_Starks
05-06-2016, 12:39 PM
I don't know which name to correct your spelling on.

It's either Mike Antoni and James Haren ... or it's Mike D'Antoni and James Harden. You can't mix and match :)

Hahaha! I was trying not to be too redundant!

That team is giving up 120 a night tho!

Scoots
05-06-2016, 02:06 PM
Hahaha! I was trying not to be too redundant!

That team is giving up 120 a night tho!

Maybe they could pick up Avid Lee from the Allas Maverics? It's a shame Kyrie Irving doesn't have any Ds in his name.

hugepatsfan
05-06-2016, 02:07 PM
I really like Morey's line in the interview where he says other teams lost in the first round just like the Rockets did, but they are supposedly teams with great team chemistry and teamwork etc. Which also ties in with what he says about expectations--that the high expectations are specifically because the Rockets have had success and have such good players on the team.

The reference to teams that have such good reputations and supposedly great team chemistry etc seems clearly to be a reference to the Boston Celtics.

Which points to the fact that these kind of media stories or public perceptions or the team's or exec's manipulation of perceptions and stories to create a narrative like "Houston blah blah blah bad" or whatever are largely rooted in a kind of aesthetics.

Like Boston may lose in five or six games to a mediocre Atlanta team, while Houston comes apart and loses in five games to (literally) the best team in the history of the NBA, record-wise. But hey, Houston fired their coach, James Harden has a long beard, Josh Smith has tattoos, Dwight Howard has a bad attitude and seems to be dogging it, so Houston is the worst team in the league and Daryl Morey is a complete incompetent.

Meanwhile Boston has drafted "promising young talent" and has a good looking young coach who is "a swell guy" and "really clean cut" and "just a tremendous individual" and "unquestionably a great coach" and their team has great teamwork, i.e., very few tattoos, pass the ball, effort on defense, no stars, hustle around, hustle back to the huddle to listen attentitively to their good-looking young clean cut college coach, etc etc.
So because they hired a college coach and then got draft picks from the absurd Brooklyn trades to get some young players from the draft, Isaiah Thomas is charismatic, etc...

so therefore the Celtics are somehow the model of everything that's right with the NBA, while the Rockets are a franchise in utter freefall and the product of complete negligence and incompetence by Morey. Even though the Celtics rolled over and lost easily in the first round of the Eastern playoffs, whereas if Houston was in the East they would be an almost certain ECF team and widely regarded as the #1 threat to knock out the Cavaliers.

HOU has two players who are supposed to be arguably the best at their position in the entire NBA. BOS is a team that plays above their talent level because of, yes, great coaching/chemistry. HOU plays under their talent level. You say they lost to GS but you're missing the point because they should never have been the 8 seed playing Golden State. They're more talented than finishing with that record. Complete apples to oranges comparison you're making.

Scoots
05-06-2016, 03:11 PM
HOU has two players who are supposed to be arguably the best at their position in the entire NBA. BOS is a team that plays above their talent level because of, yes, great coaching/chemistry. HOU plays under their talent level. You say they lost to GS but you're missing the point because they should never have been the 8 seed playing Golden State. They're more talented than finishing with that record. Complete apples to oranges comparison you're making.

If you asked Rockets fans before the season the Rockets were a talented and deep team primed to challenge in the West. Now the same roster is perceived as talentless with the only real star being Harden. The Rockets roster went from an apple to an orange during the season without the personnel substantially changing.

Saddletramp
05-06-2016, 04:09 PM
If you asked Rockets fans before the season the Rockets were a talented and deep team primed to challenge in the West. Now the same roster is perceived as talentless with the only real star being Harden. The Rockets roster went from an apple to an orange during the season without the personnel substantially changing.

I think a lot of things went wrong with the Rockets this year, but yeah, it's the same basic roster. No one developed; that's basically it if you want to narrow it down to one thing. I started typing up a bunch of stuff but it doesn't matter. They fell to earth this year after riding high last year and there's lots of reasons.

Scoots
05-06-2016, 04:19 PM
I think a lot of things went wrong with the Rockets this year, but yeah, it's the same basic roster. No one developed; that's basically it if you want to narrow it down to one thing. But here's a quick little list of stuff:

McHale never had a system. His wins were off mostly talent.
Harden played the summer of '14 and never really missed a beat going into the '14-'15 season.

Certainly not much of a system I could see. Honestly I don't know how he didn't get fired 2 years earlier.

Saddletramp
05-06-2016, 04:24 PM
Certainly not much of a system I could see. Honestly I don't know how he didn't get fired 2 years earlier.

I accidentally sent that early and kept writing but just didn't want to waste my time. Guys weren't hitting their shots this year. Harden's defense took a nose dive. No good system in place between McHale and JB. Howard drama. And I honestly think that they realized no matter what they did, they weren't beating the Warriors, so there's just a "why bother" mentality. That sucks from a fan's perspective and is inexcusable.

Nowhere to go but (hopefully) up.