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View Full Version : NBA says James Harden's game-winning shot should not have counted



Sportsguy9695
04-23-2016, 04:42 PM
The NBA came down harshly Friday in its review of the officials' crunch-time calls -- or lack thereof -- in the Houston Rockets' 97-96, Game 3 win over the Golden State Warriors, saying James Harden's game-winning shot should not have counted.

It was among five incorrect calls in the final two minutes, the NBA said in its assessment of officials' late-game performance dubbed the "Last Two Minute Report."

On the replay from Thursday night's game, it appeared Harden pushed off Golden State's Andre Iguodala before converting a 10-foot, step-back jumper with 2.7 seconds to play. The league said Harden initiated contact with Iguodala before hitting the basket.

Source: ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15305873/2016-nba-playoffs-league-says-james-harden-game-winner-houston-rockets-not-counted)

c.c.
04-23-2016, 05:17 PM
Just like MJ push off Byron Russell in the 1998 Finals

FlashBolt
04-23-2016, 05:49 PM
Just like MJ push off Byron Russell in the 1998 Finals

Doesn't mean it's okay. Although, it should be obvious that superstars making that final shot are going to get away with some pushoffs. I'm guessing the refs don't want to be the @ssholes for ruining a gamewinning shot.

Scoots
04-23-2016, 07:03 PM
I wish EVERY foul was called rather than doing it depending on the situation. If it's a superstar vs a superstar does the one with the better Q rating get the call their way?

FlashBolt
04-23-2016, 07:35 PM
I wish EVERY foul was called rather than doing it depending on the situation. If it's a superstar vs a superstar does the one with the better Q rating get the call their way?

99% of the time, the final shot never gets called for a foul from both sides. It's the only time the refs really don't give a damn unless it's an incredibly blatant and uncalled for foul.

Saddletramp
04-23-2016, 07:42 PM
I've seen Harden fouled and it not being called on the last play of games resulting in a missed shot and a loss. Win by the non-call and you lose by the non-call.

Saddletramp
04-23-2016, 07:46 PM
I wish EVERY foul was called rather than doing it depending on the situation. If it's a superstar vs a superstar does the one with the better Q rating get the call their way?

Been saying it for years, first second to the last second, League MVP to the 15th man on the worst team. If it's a foul, it should be called. But I'm usually laughed at when I say it. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hurts.

slaker619
04-23-2016, 08:41 PM
No fouls at that point unless dumb obvious

Scoots
04-23-2016, 08:52 PM
Been saying it for years, first second to the last second, League MVP to the 15th man on the worst team. If it's a foul, it should be called. But I'm usually laughed at when I say it. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hurts.

I guess we are in the minority.

europagnpilgrim
04-23-2016, 10:39 PM
Just imagine had this been called when Jordan pushed off in that 98' finals game winner against Jazz

combined with the 'social media' train on the track at that time period, it would have been comical

Imagine the phantom calls back then all superstars get and to only have it under microscope and talked about everywhere nowadays

Jordan would get looked at as a blatant cheater and pacified baby, since he had the officials in his back pocket after he finally broke through in 91'

all fouls should be called on both sides if its a foul, not in some last or crunch time situation, but make your bed lay in it

Scoots
04-24-2016, 12:02 AM
Just imagine had this been called when Jordan pushed off in that 98' finals game winner against Jazz

combined with the 'social media' train on the track at that time period, it would have been comical

Imagine the phantom calls back then all superstars get and to only have it under microscope and talked about everywhere nowadays

Jordan would get looked at as a blatant cheater and pacified baby, since he had the officials in his back pocket after he finally broke through in 91'

all fouls should be called on both sides if its a foul, not in some last or crunch time situation, but make your bed lay in it

The problem with this replay thing is that if you go back and find all of the missed calls the game becomes meaningless. I kind of preferred it when they never talked about officiating.

nastynice
04-24-2016, 03:33 AM
No fouls at that point unless dumb obvious

x2. Given the time and situation, I don't have much issue with that non call. Gotta let them play in a situation like that

Scoots
04-24-2016, 11:46 AM
x2. Given the time and situation, I don't have much issue with that non call. Gotta let them play in a situation like that

I don't agree. If a player is well defended it's okay for an offensive player to just shove them out of the way because there are only a few seconds left in the game? I don't like the precedent as it means that great defense just doesn't matter because the offense can foul all it wants as long as there are only a few seconds left. Let's have the offensive team just hug all of the opposing players and shove them out of bounds in the last seconds so the player with the ball can get the wide open layup because we don't call fouls at the end of a close game.

I'm not complaining about the missed call there, but the idea that if a ref sees it he shouldn't call EVERY foul is wrong.

kobe4thewinbang
04-24-2016, 01:26 PM
That's not a push-off. C'mon. Let them play. I thought that Chris Paul push off against the Grizzlies was worse (the series LAC lost eventually).

Raps18-19 Champ
04-24-2016, 01:56 PM
There was no need whatsoever to make this announcement.

europagnpilgrim
04-24-2016, 02:33 PM
The problem with this replay thing is that if you go back and find all of the missed calls the game becomes meaningless. I kind of preferred it when they never talked about officiating.

but on a smalle scale that did get talked about a lot by those who followed and played ball, it just wasn't the maniacal social media platform hype, but that was talked about a lot in barbershops and parks/gyms but we all know Jordan is protected like the president so it is what it be

on that note nobody should be talked about because we all know the zebras control the game, Phil said it best, im disappointed it took the rogue ref to really put them on the map of being looked at closer, they should always be talked about, especially when we can see things from the sideline/tv and they are paid professionals right there not calling something they see all the time no matter of its 1st or last two mintues of 4th qtr

refs should be fined for missing calls, or suspended or both

Scoots
04-24-2016, 02:46 PM
but on a smalle scale that did get talked about a lot by those who followed and played ball, it just wasn't the maniacal social media platform hype, but that was talked about a lot in barbershops and parks/gyms but we all know Jordan is protected like the president so it is what it be

on that note nobody should be talked about because we all know the zebras control the game, Phil said it best, im disappointed it took the rogue ref to really put them on the map of being looked at closer, they should always be talked about, especially when we can see things from the sideline/tv and they are paid professionals right there not calling something they see all the time no matter of its 1st or last two mintues of 4th qtr

refs should be fined for missing calls, or suspended or both

Or they should add refs until calls are no longer missed :)

nastynice
04-24-2016, 03:05 PM
I don't agree. If a player is well defended it's okay for an offensive player to just shove them out of the way because there are only a few seconds left in the game? I don't like the precedent as it means that great defense just doesn't matter because the offense can foul all it wants as long as there are only a few seconds left. Let's have the offensive team just hug all of the opposing players and shove them out of bounds in the last seconds so the player with the ball can get the wide open layup because we don't call fouls at the end of a close game.

I'm not complaining about the missed call there, but the idea that if a ref sees it he shouldn't call EVERY foul is wrong.

Well, 2 things. The "play on" goes both ways, offense and defense. Iggy shoulda draped him a little tighter knowing he can get away with a little extra contact. The other is, I'm not saying NOTHING should be called, I'm iust saying much less should be at that time. Hardens push off WAS pretty hard, close to blatant, but IMO not really to the point you HAVE to call it IMO

I'm very much in favor of situations dictating the refereeing. I like how the game slows down in the playoffs, how they allow more contact. Same with the last min in a close game

FlashBolt
04-24-2016, 03:20 PM
Foul or not, Iggy is a notorious flopper and I'm pretty sure the pushoff looked more of a foul due to the moving motion of Iggy in which he is sliding around backwards trying to cover Harden. If anything, good move by Harden to get his defender off balance and knock down the shot. It was a tough shot considering Harden has been absolutely inconsistent.

nastynice
04-24-2016, 03:33 PM
Foul or not, Iggy is a notorious flopper and I'm pretty sure the pushoff looked more of a foul due to the moving motion of Iggy in which he is sliding around backwards trying to cover Harden. If anything, good move by Harden to get his defender off balance and knock down the shot. It was a tough shot considering Harden has been absolutely inconsistent.

lmao!! That's new, haha

FlashBolt
04-24-2016, 03:37 PM
lmao!! That's new, haha

It was a foul but I don't think it was a huge "push" in a sense that Iggy was off balanced. I'm assuming Harden knew that by the way he took that shot. He ran up the court, pushed him, took a spin, and drained the shot. Iggy is a tough man capable of guarding LeBron. I don't think Harden's push alone would have pushed him that far back. Either way, I think it's a no-call. Refs let the final shot go both ways every time. I can remember the countless times KD was fouled on a shot and still drained it in. I don't think either team should expect a foul to be called unless it was an incredibly malicious play. But this is the same stuff I said in the thread regarding Bogut being suspended. Either refs call it or they don't. I'm advocating that they should call these things for what they are but if not, whatever. Not my call.

nastynice
04-24-2016, 04:06 PM
Given how the Warriors hate Pom Pom crew has told us that getting away with fouls makes u dirty, I think the real question is, is harden dirty?

FlashBolt
04-24-2016, 04:18 PM
Given how the Warriors hate Pom Pom crew has told us that getting away with fouls makes u dirty, I think the real question is, is harden dirty?

That wasn't a dirty play. It was a foul but dirty implies malicious intent. What Bogut did was dirty. He pulled Howard's arm when he could have just let go. What Green did was dirty. Why did he grab Beasley and toss him to the ground? Those are uncalled for plays. Harden just pushed off.. You can't compare two different things.

Scoots
04-24-2016, 04:23 PM
I think guarding Harden is a special case because he creates so much contact and gets so many calls defenders have learned to give him more space. If you are now going to allow him to push off AND give him the contact calls when he creates contact it goes too far.

Sportsguy9695
04-24-2016, 04:52 PM
I wish EVERY foul was called rather than doing it depending on the situation. If it's a superstar vs a superstar does the one with the better Q rating get the call their way?

i agree they need to call every call instead of based off of the situation and the players

numba1CHANGsta
04-24-2016, 05:19 PM
Is pushing off another player with your beard considered a foul?

nastynice
04-24-2016, 09:44 PM
That wasn't a dirty play. It was a foul but dirty implies malicious intent. What Bogut did was dirty. He pulled Howard's arm when he could have just let go. What Green did was dirty. Why did he grab Beasley and toss him to the ground? Those are uncalled for plays. Harden just pushed off.. You can't compare two different things.

Dwight is between Bogut and the basket. Bogut got beat, he lets go, Dwight has a shot at an and 1. Committing a foul and then moving out of the way is stupid defense, period. Keep in mind, Bogut didn't go Brazilian ju jitsu and put an arm bar on, they were tangled up and that's where his arm ended up (happens pretty often with bigs), Bogut simply held on and kept it there in order to give Dwight no chance at the ball.

Green was trying to commit a foul, it wasn't even called so why he went overboard with it is pretty self explanatory. Sure maybe there was some frustration there, but if ur gonna say frustration foul = dirty then WELL over 50% of players are dirty.

So what it comes down to in terms of what actually happened, outside of the hateration, is the explanation given to me for why those guys are dirty because they commit fouls that don't get called. Just as with harden. Hence (yea I said it), my question about harden being dirty.

You will notice the common hater will then resort to the infamous "double standard defense mechanism", as the building frustration of the hater does not allow them to rationally or logically reason thru what's happening on the court. Social media has lead to an exponential increase of the hater nation, experts believe this to be a possible epidemic, kinda like that poisonous fish in the Atlantic, lol

KnicksorBust
04-25-2016, 03:01 PM
The NBA should either back and replay the rest of the game with the offensive foul called or don't say anything. This leaves such a salty taste.

rhino17
04-25-2016, 05:57 PM
He certainly shielded himself from the defender, but I don't think he pushed off

also, there were like 20 blown calls in the last minute or 2 of the game

nastynice
04-25-2016, 06:50 PM
^^lol