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Stunner
04-19-2016, 10:12 AM
Clippers guard Jamal Crawford wins #NBA 6th Man of the Year award. Results below:


https://twitter.com/marcjspearsespn/status/722425460399874048


Terrible , I personally think Barton should have gotten . Idc about team success that shouldn't matter for this award . But yea Barton numbers are better and he started only 1 game

IndyRealist
04-19-2016, 10:26 AM
Of course he does.

ewing
04-19-2016, 10:52 AM
I would have given it to iggy

kingsdelez24
04-19-2016, 11:16 AM
The award should be redubbed "Volume bench scorer" award

mavwar53
04-19-2016, 11:22 AM
The award should be redubbed "Volume bench scorer" award

This is perfect

kingsdelez24
04-19-2016, 11:32 AM
Carmelo Anthony is gonna win MIP, judging by the panel

KnicksorBust
04-19-2016, 11:40 AM
The award should be redubbed "Volume bench scorer" award

Completely agree. Crawford was a dog in so many games this year too.

DboneG
04-19-2016, 11:45 AM
Jamal Crawford | L.A. Clippers | 51 | 23 | 17 | 341
Andre Iguodala | Golden State Warriors | 33 | 35 | 18 | 288
Enes Kanter | Oklahoma City Thunder | 19 | 20 | 27 | 182
Will Barton | Denver Nuggets | 15 | 21 | 20 | 158
Evan Turner | Boston Celtics | 3 | 7 | 10 | 46



Not a bad choice...I was hoping for Wil Barton. I thought he brought a lot of energy off the bench, defense, dunks and such. Enes Kanter would have been a good pick also! OKC was looking for Dion Waiters to bring the heat, shooting 3's and such. It wound up being Kanters rebounding, scoring, defense, bla bla bla. Evan Turner has been a nice surprise this year for Boston. Iguodala is always there, he's been a true professional since going to the bench. Let' hope Jamal "J Crossover" has a better playoff! Last, year was horrible for him.

Scoots
04-19-2016, 11:49 AM
The MIP should be re-named Breakout player ... 6th man should be re-named Chucker of the year.

Gander13SM
04-19-2016, 12:02 PM
I think theres at least 6 guys you could argue over him. Maybe more. This is a bad choice.

Hoping they don't F up MIP and COTY now.

Chronz
04-19-2016, 12:18 PM
Goat 7th man

DboneG
04-19-2016, 12:19 PM
Jamal? Bro...you never made it to be an all-star? wow! Never won a NBA title either.
With your killer crossover, making more 4pt plays than anybody in the history of the NBA, I'd vote for you to be in the HALL! Heck!! If Yao Ming can make it with his numbers...so can you!!

Jamal "J Crossover" Crawford is HOF material. If these fools are mentioning Steve Kerr. I may as well start mentioning Jamal "J Crossover" for the HOF early also.

JAZZNC
04-19-2016, 12:51 PM
Jamal Crawford | L.A. Clippers | 51 | 23 | 17 | 341
Andre Iguodala | Golden State Warriors | 33 | 35 | 18 | 288
Enes Kanter | Oklahoma City Thunder | 19 | 20 | 27 | 182
Will Barton | Denver Nuggets | 15 | 21 | 20 | 158
Evan Turner | Boston Celtics | 3 | 7 | 10 | 46



Not a bad choice...I was hoping for Wil Barton. I thought he brought a lot of energy off the bench, defense, dunks and such. Enes Kanter would have been a good pick also! OKC was looking for Dion Waiters to bring the heat, shooting 3's and such. It wound up being Kanters rebounding, scoring, defense, bla bla bla. Evan Turner has been a nice surprise this year for Boston. Iguodala is always there, he's been a true professional since going to the bench. Let' hope Jamal "J Crossover" has a better playoff! Last, year was horrible for him.

The fact that you put defense and Kanter in the same sentence proves you dont know much about the guy. He is a joke of a defender. He is just a tall version of Jamal Crawford. There is a reason the Jazz were much better without him on the roster, he is a net negative on the floor.

IndyRealist
04-19-2016, 12:52 PM
Jamal? Bro...you never made it to be an all-star? wow! Never won a NBA title either.
With your killer crossover, making more 4pt plays than anybody in the history of the NBA, I'd vote for you to be in the HALL! Heck!! If Yao Ming can make it with his numbers...so can you!!

Jamal "J Crossover" Crawford is HOF material. If these fools are mentioning Steve Kerr. I may as well start mentioning Jamal "J Crossover" for the HOF early also.

Whew, for a second I thought DboneG wasn't a troll account.

DboneG
04-19-2016, 01:28 PM
The fact that you put defense and Kanter in the same sentence proves you dont know much about the guy. He is a joke of a defender. He is just a tall version of Jamal Crawford. There is a reason the Jazz were much better without him on the roster, he is a net negative on the floor.



They weren't using him correctly. That's all.

Tall version of Jamal Crawford?! I didn't know Enes Kanters had a killer crossover!! I didn't know Kanters made a lot of 4pt. plays! Thanks for letting me know he's a tall version of J Crossover.
What kind of comparison was that?! Comparing a PF/C to a SG/PG ....WOW!!! lol
Apples to apples please.

DboneG
04-19-2016, 01:33 PM
Whew, for a second I thought DboneG wasn't a troll account.

Just because you made 5,000 posts, doesn't say that you aren't a TROLL. I read some of your posts, they don't bring much to the conversation . and sometimes you are off topic. So, what does that make you? A TROLL?

Chronz
04-19-2016, 01:41 PM
Really wish we could change the rules when some one has been as productive off the bench as Whiteside.

ManningToTyree
04-19-2016, 02:46 PM
Love Jamal but this was a bad choice. Barton or iggy would have made more sense

Stunner
04-19-2016, 03:13 PM
Really wish we could change the rules when some one has been as productive off the bench as Whiteside.

Lol whiteside started 43 games that's basically more than half the season and he only played 73 games

Chronz
04-19-2016, 04:31 PM
Lol whiteside started 43 games that's basically more than half the season and he only played 73 games
Basically? It's precisely 2 games more than half the season. The way i look at it, Whiteside contributed to more wins even if we ignored his days as a starter. Besides, the media has made some stupid decisions I the past. Like the year Mckie won it, dude sucked off the bench, put up his best numbers as a starter

europagnpilgrim
04-19-2016, 05:50 PM
Goes to show folks that the market you play in is significant in swaying votes/awards

Melo was MVP candidate few years back while doing the same thing in Denver, Crawford was a lock to win in LA market after doing the same thing in ATL, cakewalk to get awards in LA/NYC market vs. others

Kobe B was voted all star starter at 15ppg way back in 98', in any other market he doesn't even sniff half the votes, dunk contest winner or not

had it not been for Curry blowing away his last season performance the MVP would easily go to CP3, especially since he basically did this in 08' but was in new Orleans but now in that LA overhyped market, easily,Blake's absence proved it even more but Curry handcuffed that by all star break, little cousin still can shine since its all California/west coast market, LA section is just the big fish along with NYC

6th man is supposed to be instant offense(putting the ball in the basket) off the bench so I don't get all the chucker comments, but this is PSD so it doesn't surprise me at all

europagnpilgrim
04-19-2016, 05:55 PM
Love Jamal but this was a bad choice. Barton or iggy would have made more sense

Had Barton done this on a 'bigger' market team he would have easily won, or had he done this as a Spurs/Cavs member would have enhanced his position, but in Denver market he didn't stand a chance, no playoffs either and it was a no no from the media point of view

swap teams with him and Crawford and you would understand what I am talking about, he would have ran away with it

IndyRealist
04-19-2016, 06:39 PM
Goes to show folks that the market you play in is significant in swaying votes/awards

Melo was MVP candidate few years back while doing the same thing in Denver, Crawford was a lock to win in LA market after doing the same thing in ATL, cakewalk to get awards in LA/NYC market vs. others

Kobe B was voted all star starter at 15ppg way back in 98', in any other market he doesn't even sniff half the votes, dunk contest winner or not

had it not been for Curry blowing away his last season performance the MVP would easily go to CP3, especially since he basically did this in 08' but was in new Orleans but now in that LA overhyped market, easily,Blake's absence proved it even more but Curry handcuffed that by all star break, little cousin still can shine since its all California/west coast market, LA section is just the big fish along with NYC

6th man is supposed to be instant offense(putting the ball in the basket) off the bench so I don't get all the chucker comments, but this is PSD so it doesn't surprise me at all

6th man has gone to instant offense guys, but it's supposed to be the most valuable player who comes off the bench. People simply equate "lots of points" and"highlight reels" with "valuable".

basketballkitty
04-19-2016, 06:48 PM
The award should be redubbed "Volume bench scorer" award




Amen brother. I mean Crawford has never been anything more then what Nick Young is. A one dimensional volume shooter. And the next time he plays any sort of defense will be his FIRST time. Well I guess we could very well see Dion Waiters as a 6th man award winner huh ?

Scoots
04-19-2016, 08:55 PM
6th man is supposed to be instant offense(putting the ball in the basket) off the bench

Since when?

Scoots
04-19-2016, 09:01 PM
6th man has gone to instant offense guys, but it's supposed to be the most valuable player who comes off the bench. People simply equate "lots of points" and"highlight reels" with "valuable".

Gotta hope we are changing, even if it's a slow change.

Last year when I said my pick for 6th man was Brandan Wright people blew me off ... but look at his production. He can't hold up to starters minutes, but his 17 minutes a night are incredibly productive and they were even better if you just look at his time on the Mavs before he was traded (and then traded again).

I hoped this year Iguodala might get it because he represents a more completist view of basketball than the standard "Microwave" 6th man.

Stunner
04-19-2016, 09:32 PM
I thought Taj Gibson deserved to win over Crawford in 2013-2014

FOXHOUND
04-19-2016, 10:47 PM
Iggy missed too many games and Whiteside came off in the bench in too few. Barton had better counting stats than Crawford but he also didn't play in a single meaningful game all year. You can't look at Barton and claim his stats are any less empty than people like Cousins, Love in Minnesota or anyone else people like to say put up empty stats due to being on bad teams.

For most of the year, thanks to Blake's issues, Crawford was the 3rd leading scorer on a 53 win team. For a large chunk of the year, thanks to Gallo's injuries, Barton was the leading scorer on a 33 win team. They both scored 14 PPG, Barton 0.2 higher.

The question, with him being on such a bad team, why wasn't Barton able to produce more? Why was he even coming off the bench? What stopped him from creating a large enough gap from Crawford to make team record less of an issue? If he was on a better team, with much less touches and opportunity as a result, what kind of numbers would he really put up?

Furthermore, there's a big difference in how each goes about their business. For all of his age and flaws, Crawford is still an elite ISO scorer in the NBA. Crawford ranked 3rd in NBA in ISO possession frequency at 22.4%, with a total of 261 possessions. Amongst players with 150 possessions or more, Crawford's 1.00 PPP ranked 3rd in the NBA out of 31 players. The only two players above him? Steph Curry and Damian Lillard. It also ranked in the 88.7 percentile in the NBA overall.

Barton? He only had 91 ISO possessions all year with a possession frequency of just 7.4%. Not only that, but he shot a very poor 33% and his 0.70 PPP ranks in the 28.2 percentile in the NBA.

Simply put, Will Barton can not come close to providing the scoring ability of Jamal Crawford even if both scored 14 PPG. Crawford's still great ISO ability means that he can still create offense out of nothing. This is vital when you're on a team with no real viable backup PG, and really it's always a vital skill as a scorer.

This is why Crawford won award #3, and it's well deserved.

Stunner
04-20-2016, 01:15 AM
Ummmmmmmmm yea no I think it just came down to team and name value , if Barton was still with the Blazers or even on the Spurs he prob wins .




Also you're asking why wasn't Barton creating a larger gap like as if we are saying Barton should be considered a legit number 1 player or a franchise guy for that matter and that's not the case .


I think Malone wanted Barton to help the 2nd unit scoring wise also Gary Harris the 2nd unit player was s better defender so it made sense for him to start along side a rookie team .

Also Crawford posted the 2nd worst per of his career with 14.0

Barton posted a 16.0

Crawford OWS / DWS / 1.8 / 1.5 / 3.3

Barton's 2.4 / 1.9 / 4.3


Crawford ability is well established and praised but it doesn't mean anything to me in a world where we praise efficiency. This goes everything against that , so at the end of the day Crawford won this award basically because his past and the clippers . His season wasn't that impressive to me and basically getting it off a team effort .



Before the all start break it honestly wasn't close who was better , Barton was posting 15.5 ppg while shooting 45% with what I assume when the team had more help around them . Would make sense seeing he's not a lead guy .

But I can prob see why they went with Crawford because he made a late push after the all star break with his efficiency but it still wasn't better than Barton's pre break numbers were most of the games were played in the season .





But me personally still would have gave it to Barton in the grand scheme regardless of the team records


I guess I don't see the 6th man in the same eyes as MVP and DPOTY but more in lines of ROTY were a player can win that award playoff team or not .

Scoots
04-20-2016, 01:27 AM
Iggy missed too many games

Kawhi missed more games last year and won DPOY. And more importantly Iguodala played more games this year than Jamal did last year when he won it. Sooooo, no.

FlashBolt
04-20-2016, 02:04 AM
The fact that you put defense and Kanter in the same sentence proves you dont know much about the guy. He is a joke of a defender. He is just a tall version of Jamal Crawford. There is a reason the Jazz were much better without him on the roster, he is a net negative on the floor.

I think you meant Will Barton and not Kanter. Tristan should have been in the top five here. But as others mentioned, this is a joke of an award.

FOXHOUND
04-20-2016, 02:36 AM
Ummmmmmmmm yea no I think it just came down to team and name value , if Barton was still with the Blazers or even on the Spurs he prob wins .

Completely subjective. He never even averaged 5 PPG on the Blazers and had no role. A large part of his improved play is the simple fact that he went to a bad team where he could play a bigger role that wasn't available to him prior.


Also you're asking why wasn't Barton creating a larger gap like as if we are saying Barton should be considered a legit number 1 player or a franchise guy for that matter and that's not the case .

No, I'm saying why did he average such little shot attempts/points on such a garbage team? Gallo averaged 19 and only played 53 games. There was a ton of opportunity for him to do more than a measly 14 PPG. If he put up 16 PPG, that's a big difference. He wasn't competing with any stars or any scorers besides Gallo, since no one else besides him even averaged 13 PPG. The answer is that he doesn't have any scoring game. He's just a slasher/transition player, proven by his ISO stats. Which is fine, but that's just reality. That's a dime a dozen skill set compared to elite ISO scoring ability. Barton does nothing elite, at all.


I think Malone wanted Barton to help the 2nd unit scoring wise also Gary Harris the 2nd unit player was s better defender so it made sense for him to start along side a rookie team .

Sure, that may be true. Unless you want to ignore that Gallinari only player 53 games. Plenty opportunity for him to start, which he only did once, or at the least get more MPG/touches/opportunities even if he was starting off the bench. In those games that Gallinari missed his 14.4 PPG lead the team. You know how easy it is to have inflated stats as a top option on a bad team? He's not exempt from that reality.


Also Crawford posted the 2nd worst per of his career with 14.0

Barton posted a 16.0

Crawford OWS / DWS / 1.8 / 1.5 / 3.3

Barton's 2.4 / 1.9 / 4.3

Why does it being the 2nd worst PER of his career matter? Also, PER means nothing to me and WS really doesn't either. Even if it did, his advantages in those over Crawford aren't very high and certainly nothing to make me ignore that he was on a team that won 20 less games where it's easier to have inflated stats in an inflated role.


Crawford ability is well established and praised but it doesn't mean anything to me in a world where we praise efficiency. This goes everything against that , so at the end of the day Crawford won this award basically because his past and the clippers . His season wasn't that impressive to me and basically getting it off a team effort .

But he was efficient at the most valuable skill in the NBA. He was the 3rd more efficient ISO scorer in the NBA, better than Kevin Durant, LeBron James, anyone not named Steph Curry or Damian Lillard. What was Barton elite at, anything?


Before the all start break it honestly wasn't close who was better , Barton was posting 15.5 ppg while shooting 45% with what I assume when the team had more help around them . Would make sense seeing he's not a lead guy .

But I can prob see why they went with Crawford because he made a late push after the all star break with his efficiency but it still wasn't better than Barton's pre break numbers were most of the games were played in the season .

It's a full season award. Crawford was consistent throughout the year, other than his 3 point shooting which was good in the 2nd half and poor in the first half. Barton fell off a cliff after, them be the breaks.



But me personally still would have gave it to Barton in the grand scheme regardless of the team records

I guess I don't see the 6th man in the same eyes as MVP and DPOTY but more in lines of ROTY were a player can win that award playoff team or not .

That's cool and I see where you're coming from.

FOXHOUND
04-20-2016, 02:43 AM
Kawhi missed more games last year and won DPOY. And more importantly Iguodala played more games this year than Jamal did last year when he won it. Sooooo, no.

Where in my post did I mention anything about Kawhi winning DPOY last year? Or Iguodala playing more games this year than Jamal last year? Lou Williams actually won it last year, btw ;)

Iguodala was the best 6th man this year, but he wasn't better than Crawford enough to spot him 14 full games played.

Munkeysuit
04-20-2016, 05:20 AM
J Cross! congrats to him, he's the epitome of what a 6th man should bring to a team.

Scoots
04-20-2016, 10:52 AM
Where in my post did I mention anything about Kawhi winning DPOY last year? Or Iguodala playing more games this year than Jamal last year? Lou Williams actually won it last year, btw ;)

Iguodala was the best 6th man this year, but he wasn't better than Crawford enough to spot him 14 full games played.

Sorry, 2013/14 sixth man despite STARTING 24 games and only playing 69 total games.

You said Iguodala missed too many games to win the award and I was pointing out that historically Iguodala didn't miss too many games to qualify for post season awards.

I'm fairly sure Iguodala doesn't care either way, it just bugs me a little that the voters seem set on picking a certain kind of player and particularly they seem to vote by the narrative they hear for this award in particular.

FOXHOUND
04-20-2016, 12:14 PM
Sorry, 2013/14 sixth man despite STARTING 24 games and only playing 69 total games.

You said Iguodala missed too many games to win the award and I was pointing out that historically Iguodala didn't miss too many games to qualify for post season awards.

I'm fairly sure Iguodala doesn't care either way, it just bugs me a little that the voters seem set on picking a certain kind of player and particularly they seem to vote by the narrative they hear for this award in particular.

Well he was great in 2013/14 averaging 18.6 PPG, and the race between him and Taj was very close with Crawford having 57 first place votes to Gibson's 49. That was an example of him being good enough over Taj to spot him those 13 games he didn't play with his 69 vs Taj's 82.

Iguodala qualified just fine, he finished 2nd in voting and had 33 1st place votes to Crawford's 51. I believe that Iggy was better than Crawford, but I mean the guy scored 7 PPG. Scoring it still and will always be the most valuable stat. I think his all around play and D is excellent but ultimately he's there scoring 7 PPG in 27 MPG. Can't spot him 14 games with that kind of output.

I think a case can be made for Evan Turner over Iggy, in the sense that both fill the same role as all around player and defender. Only Turner put up 10.5-4.9-4.4 over Iggy's 7-4-3.4 while he played 81 games to Iggy's 65. And for Barton, if you're going to go with a player on a bad team, you can argue Ryan Anderson who averaged 17 PPG and 6 REBs in 30 MPG off the bench for the crappy Pelicans. But he only played 66 games to Barton's 82.

Then you have Kanter, who would have had a very legit case and most likely won if not for the fact that he only played 21 MPG. And Whiteside, who was by far the best 6th Man this year during his stint off the bench but he just didn't do it for long enough.

I think what it comes down to, ultimately, is that this was a weak year for 6th Man. That narrative you speak of, which I assume is best scorer off the bench, is simply because scoring is the most valuable asset in the NBA. A ton of role players out there can knock down open shots, or do well in transition if they're athletic, or grab rebounds, or do the dirty work with setting screens and such, or move the ball well in a system or play good hard D, but not everyone can score at a high level. It's the rarest and most valuable skill set in the NBA.

DR_1
04-20-2016, 03:24 PM
Iggy got robbed