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View Full Version : If Lebron>Kobe, does that mean Durant>Kobe?



i.got.the.nutz
04-16-2016, 02:10 AM
Just speaking from all-time ranking perspective. At this rate Durant's career is projecting, does he end up higher than Kobe all-time? Consensus is Lebron is higher than Kobe all-time because of much better advanced stats. Durant is on pace to pretty much shatter Kobe's advanced stats numbers career wise, so just curious if Durant continues this pace does he pass Kobe all-time regardless of rings.

More-Than-Most
04-16-2016, 02:24 AM
Depends.. Also its not just career advanced stats... Durant has never won anything really and unlike Lebrons early years Durant has always had loads of talent around him similar to Kobe... I also think Kobe was a much better defender early on in his career over durant but Durant is probably an all around better offensive player... I think if Durant remains healthy when all is said and done there will be an argument for him as a top 10 player... He will never be on the level of Jordan or James.. Like Kobe one can argue that Durant has never once been the best player in the league in any of his years.

That all being said the value of Kobe is his longevity.... Durant is only in year 9... He could drop off/injuries and so on down the list... Right now the Verdict is out but if he can remain at this level of player for the next 5 years he will be in the argument in my opinion.

naps
04-16-2016, 03:19 AM
LeBron is better than Kobe JUST because of advanced stats? Where did you get that? I smell like this is a troll thread...a click bait...you know once you have LeBron and Kobe as a thread topic....we all know how it turns out.

JasonJohnHorn
04-16-2016, 08:17 AM
People weigh team success with all-time rankings. I find it's better to just ask this: Who would you rather for ten years of their respective primes: Kobe of KD. My answer would quite easily be KD.

Kobe is a bigger draw. He's had more success. But when you look at on-court production, I don't see that there is a case to be made that favour Kobe outside of ring count.


Kobe is amazing. This isn't meant as a slight to him. But KD is a better rebounder, a better shooter, and though Kobe has an edge with passing, KD has improved there. Defensively, I always thought Kobe was over-rated. A great defender, but not worthy of so many All-Defensive team selections (some, just not so many). KD's defense, I think is on close to parity terms with Kobe. I might get a lot of flak for that, and Kobe's peak defensive game was better than KD's, but over all, throughout his career, I'd say they are about even there.

Munkeysuit
04-16-2016, 08:21 AM
Lets do an experiment that will help settle and prove which player is greater than the other. Lets start off by picking the absolute worst team in the NBA right now, which would be the Philadelphia 76ers, now lets take Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant and place them all in their primes.
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close. If you were to take Kobe in his prime and stuck him with the current Sixers, they would be much better but won't make the playoffs and the same could be said about Durant as well, I highly doubt they even win more than 40 games.
If you want further proof? I bet nobody can even name a player since Michael Jordan that would be able to lead a terrible team to the playoffs and possibly even further...Lebron's talents and leadership skills are very under-appreciated and he does everything seemingly so easy and has been doing it at such a consistent pace that we start to take it for granted!

DarkKnight
04-16-2016, 09:05 AM
Kobe >Lebaby >Durant
/thread ;)

CKinKC
04-16-2016, 09:08 AM
This thread is dumb and ridiculous! Kobe has 5 rings! 5! Durant has a big fat 0! Lebron playing in the garbage Eastern Conference his whole career makes it to the Finals every year, but only has 2 rings! I also put Lebron behind Kobe unless he gets a couple more rings himself.

lakerfan85
04-16-2016, 09:16 AM
I'd rather have Boris Diaw..

PowerHouse
04-16-2016, 09:53 AM
LeBron is better than Kobe JUST because of advanced stats? Where did you get that? I smell like this is a troll thread...a click bait...you know once you have LeBron and Kobe as a thread topic....we all know how it turns out.

Trolling on Kobe while sporting a Laker logo as a profile pic?

Idk about all that.

PowerHouse
04-16-2016, 10:00 AM
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close.


Are you for real with this? Kobe did have the 76ers as teammates back in 05 and 06 and did single handedly take them to the playoffs both years. And that was in the west, not the joke of a conference called the east.

Unless of course you consider Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton to be studs.

DanG
04-16-2016, 10:09 AM
Kobe is a killer so I would take him all day. Durant may show he is a more complete offensive player at times, but who cares if you're so passive when needed most. Dude is playing with a top 5 player and his team isn't even in the discussion for a championship. Imagine a prime Kobe with Westbrook .... scary.

Dade County
04-16-2016, 10:41 AM
Lets do an experiment that will help settle and prove which player is greater than the other. Lets start off by picking the absolute worst team in the NBA right now, which would be the Philadelphia 76ers, now lets take Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant and place them all in their primes.
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close. If you were to take Kobe in his prime and stuck him with the current Sixers, they would be much better but won't make the playoffs and the same could be said about Durant as well, I highly doubt they even win more than 40 games.
If you want further proof? I bet nobody can even name a player since Michael Jordan that would be able to lead a terrible team to the playoffs and possibly even further...Lebron's talents and leadership skills are very under-appreciated and he does everything seemingly so easy and has been doing it at such a consistent pace that we start to take it for granted!

Agreed.

I bring this up to my friends as well. Also add Curry to this list, he wouldn't be able to do it either.

Dade County
04-16-2016, 10:52 AM
Are you for real with this? Kobe did have the 76ers as teammates back in 05 and 06 and did single handedly take them to the playoffs both years. And that was in the west, not the joke of a conference called the east.

Unless of course you consider Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton to be studs.

You are also right about this... But Kobe being kobe didnt make the team better; didn't Elevate the team...

But Kobe did well them into the playoffs with his individual skill set.

The difference is Lbj, would actually make the whole entire team better. Players state that it feels like energy is in the ball when they get a pass from Lbj...etc

But whatever lol... All 3 are grrat players.

naps
04-16-2016, 11:38 AM
Trolling on Kobe while sporting a Laker logo as a profile pic?

Idk about all that.

The OP was written just that way. Like no one can seriously say LeBron is better than Kobe just because of advanced stats, which is what he is referring to. And saying Durant is better than Kobe is stupid as well. I am just guess it's a bryant fan trying to gather some bryant praise by trolling everyone here.

naps
04-16-2016, 11:40 AM
Imagine a prime Kobe with Westbrook .... scary.

Yeah it is. For different reasons though.

i.got.the.nutz
04-16-2016, 04:39 PM
The OP was written just that way. Like no one can seriously say LeBron is better than Kobe just because of advanced stats, which is what he is referring to. And saying Durant is better than Kobe is stupid as well. I am just guess it's a bryant fan trying to gather some bryant praise by trolling everyone here.

So you have Kobe clearly ahead of Durant when it's all said and done?

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 05:43 PM
Are you for real with this? Kobe did have the 76ers as teammates back in 05 and 06 and did single handedly take them to the playoffs both years. And that was in the west, not the joke of a conference called the east.

Unless of course you consider Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton to be studs.

He also missed the playoffs

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 05:45 PM
Kobe is a killer so I would take him all day. Durant may show he is a more complete offensive player at times, but who cares if you're so passive when needed most. Dude is playing with a top 5 player and his team isn't even in the discussion for a championship. Imagine a prime Kobe with Westbrook .... scary.

I think they would end up fighting. I don't see that combo working since they are 2 of the top 3 guns in NBA history.

Laker Legend42
04-16-2016, 06:17 PM
This is silly. This is another case where stats don't tell the entire story. I think the fact that Kobe has always been willing to take any shot wether late in shot clocks or quarters didn't matter. With him only the end result matters. I think a lot of times guys worry about shooting percentages. Most of the time fans run to the stats to discredit( in most cases) Kobe. For as great as lebron is it seems that he needs a perfect or hand picked team to be successful. He got what he wanted in Cleveland and it still might not be enough. Oh but at least his advanced stats look really good. I actually think he and his team would benefit if at times he played like Kobe. If I'm lebron I'm trusting me before I trust J.R Smith. Let's see if they hang banners at quicken loans arena for the player with the best advanced stats line.

naps
04-16-2016, 06:48 PM
So you have Kobe clearly ahead of Durant when it's all said and done?

When did Durant retire? As of now it's a no brainer. But it all depends on how Durant's career turns out until he retires. Stop trolling.

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 07:11 PM
I'll take Prime Durant over Prime Kobe without hesitation.

numba1CHANGsta
04-16-2016, 07:38 PM
If we determine how good a player is by stats then Karl Malone the 2nd all-time leading scorer is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history.

Kush McDaniels
04-16-2016, 08:19 PM
This is silly. This is another case where stats don't tell the entire story. I think the fact that Kobe has always been willing to take any shot wether late in shot clocks or quarters didn't matter. With him only the end result matters. I think a lot of times guys worry about shooting percentages. Most of the time fans run to the stats to discredit( in most cases) Kobe. For as great as lebron is it seems that he needs a perfect or hand picked team to be successful. He got what he wanted in Cleveland and it still might not be enough. Oh but at least his advanced stats look really good. I actually think he and his team would benefit if at times he played like Kobe. If I'm lebron I'm trusting me before I trust J.R Smith. Let's see if they hang banners at quicken loans arena for the player with the best advanced stats line.

Here's my problem with people who think everything is black and white. Wining a Championship isn't everything. LeBron has had plenty of success, and I think it's silly to think a championship is something you need to be "successful". This Warriors team is as much of a handpicked, non-replicatable team as there's ever been. Coming second to them is pretty impressive.

LeBron played great in the finals last year, and ultimately lost to a far superior (and healthier) team.

If the same thing happens this year, I don't know how you discredit LeBron for it. The Warriors, and even the Spurs this year, are legitimately great teams.

More-Than-Most
04-16-2016, 08:26 PM
If we determine how good a player is by stats then Karl Malone the 2nd all-time leading scorer is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history.

and that is why nobody uses just stats.... Mvps/Championships/being the best player in the game for an abundance of years/defense/making every other player considerably better and so on down the list comes into play.

More-Than-Most
04-16-2016, 08:30 PM
Here's my problem with people who think everything is black and white. Wining a Championship isn't everything. LeBron has had plenty of success, and I think it's silly to think a championship is something you need to be "successful". This Warriors team is as much of a handpicked, non-replicatable team as there's ever been. Coming second to them is pretty impressive.

LeBron played great in the finals last year, and ultimately lost to a far superior (and healthier) team.

If the same thing happens this year, I don't know how you discredit LeBron for it. The Warriors, and even the Spurs this year, are legitimately great teams.

Well it goes like this.... Kobe fans and James haters say stats arent the only thing that matters but then use finals losses and championships as the end all debate... they discredit lebron for losing in the finals even though he was remarkable and lost to a much better team but then discredit him when he wins for actually getting help.... so its a damned if you do damned if you dont kind of thing.... At the end of the day Lebron is above and beyond better than kobe and has everything to back up that argument... Durant needs a few more years to even be in the argument and its disrespectful to kobe to put durant even near him.

Kush McDaniels
04-16-2016, 09:18 PM
Well it goes like this.... Kobe fans and James haters say stats arent the only thing that matters but then use finals losses and championships as the end all debate... they discredit lebron for losing in the finals even though he was remarkable and lost to a much better team but then discredit him when he wins for actually getting help.... so its a damned if you do damned if you dont kind of thing.... At the end of the day Lebron is above and beyond better than kobe and has everything to back up that argument... Durant needs a few more years to even be in the argument and its disrespectful to kobe to put durant even near him.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

LeBron does have his faults as a player, and has had legitimate "failures", but he's still one of the most accomplished and complete players we've ever seen. He surpassed Kobe a few years ago. Durant's production has been arguably better than Kobe's best, so time will tell where he ends up on the all time list.

I've always found it silly how people talk about people's finals records like it's a measure of how truly great someone is... How is losing in the finals worse than losing in an earlier round, or not making the playoffs altogether? LeBron is a perennial finals appearance. Think of all the stars in the East who never got to sniff a finals because of LeBron.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-16-2016, 09:22 PM
If Durant wins a few more MVPs and titles while maintaining his advanced stats, then I can see him passing Kobe.

Jamiecballer
04-16-2016, 09:33 PM
Durant if he continues but his career has a heck of a long way to go

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 09:42 PM
If we determine how good a player is by stats then Karl Malone the 2nd all-time leading scorer is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history.

Not true. I'd be swayed more by points per season than total points.

Jeffy25
04-16-2016, 09:48 PM
Are you for real with this? Kobe did have the 76ers as teammates back in 05 and 06 and did single handedly take them to the playoffs both years. And that was in the west, not the joke of a conference called the east.

Unless of course you consider Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton to be studs.

And let's not forget the type of teams that LeBron took the playoffs early in his career before he hit his peak (between 08-10 they won 127 games in those two seasons)

FlashBolt
04-16-2016, 10:02 PM
Oh boy.. where do we begin.

1) LeBron took a terrible roster to the NBA Finals. He led the Cavs to the best record for two seasons before he ever got a decent teammate. Mo Williams? He was a good and productive player but he was terrible defensively and never amounted to anything after LeBron left. There is no doubt who the better player to carry a team is here.
2) The notion that KD will surpass Kobe at this point is really pathetic. The guy has zero championships but is an amazing scorer who is also incredibly efficient. You can't surpass someone who has five rings and an accomplished legacy like Kobe with just those two qualities. If KD wins at least two-three rings and keeps this up till 33, sure. But stop it if you're suggesting advanced stats is a foolproof argument.

FlashBolt
04-16-2016, 10:04 PM
Kobe is a killer so I would take him all day. Durant may show he is a more complete offensive player at times, but who cares if you're so passive when needed most. Dude is playing with a top 5 player and his team isn't even in the discussion for a championship. Imagine a prime Kobe with Westbrook .... scary.

If you think THAT'S scary.. imagine a prime KD with prime Shaq... Yeah.

Laker Legend42
04-16-2016, 10:05 PM
Here's my problem with people who think everything is black and white. Wining a Championship isn't everything. LeBron has had plenty of success, and I think it's silly to think a championship is something you need to be "successful". This Warriors team is as much of a handpicked, non-replicatable team as there's ever been. Coming second to them is pretty impressive.

LeBron played great in the finals last year, and ultimately lost to a far superior (and healthier) team.
T
If the same thing happens this year, I don't know how you discredit LeBron for it. The Warriors, and even the Spurs this year, are legitimately great teams.
I can agree with that but that's kinda my point with the whole stats argument. What I had to say is more for the people that say Lebron is greater due to his advanced stats not so much as a way to understate lebrons greatness.

VapeHop
04-16-2016, 11:38 PM
Lebron easily the worst thing to of happened to the NBA, team hoppin and holding teams hostage via contracts.

Stop putting his name next to legends.

Agent008
04-16-2016, 11:45 PM
Lets do an experiment that will help settle and prove which player is greater than the other. Lets start off by picking the absolute worst team in the NBA right now, which would be the Philadelphia 76ers, now lets take Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant and place them all in their primes.
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close. If you were to take Kobe in his prime and stuck him with the current Sixers, they would be much better but won't make the playoffs and the same could be said about Durant as well, I highly doubt they even win more than 40 games.
If you want further proof? I bet nobody can even name a player since Michael Jordan that would be able to lead a terrible team to the playoffs and possibly even further...Lebron's talents and leadership skills are very under-appreciated and he does everything seemingly so easy and has been doing it at such a consistent pace that we start to take it for granted!

Prime Shaq could lead a terrible team to the playoffs.

Kush McDaniels
04-17-2016, 07:28 AM
Lebron easily the worst thing to of happened to the NBA, team hoppin and holding teams hostage via contracts.

Stop putting his name next to legends.

so it's better when teams have all the power over the players?

PowerHouse
04-17-2016, 08:44 AM
He also missed the playoffs

I meant '06 and '07.

Good catch.

PowerHouse
04-17-2016, 09:04 AM
Imagine a prime Kobe with Westbrook .... scary.

Image a prime KD with a prime Westbrook and a prime James Harden. That would be the scariest shhhhh..oh wait, never mind lol.

Sportsguy9695
04-17-2016, 09:14 AM
I think at the end of the day it comes down to rings. but having good stats does help alot and durant wont be ever considered better then kobe unlless he gets rings but stats wise he may be considered better

Laker Legend42
04-17-2016, 10:29 AM
I think at the end of the day it comes down to rings. but having good stats does help alot and durant wont be ever considered better then kobe unlless he gets rings but stats wise he may be considered better
It can't be just about rings because that would suggest Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan and guys like Luke Walton and Adam Morrrison is better than Charles Barkley. If it's all about stats it would appear that guys who primarily score off of dunks and and the bunny jump hooks are better shooters than perimeter players.

mavwar53
04-17-2016, 11:20 AM
Lets do an experiment that will help settle and prove which player is greater than the other. Lets start off by picking the absolute worst team in the NBA right now, which would be the Philadelphia 76ers, now lets take Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant and place them all in their primes.
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close. If you were to take Kobe in his prime and stuck him with the current Sixers, they would be much better but won't make the playoffs and the same could be said about Durant as well, I highly doubt they even win more than 40 games.
If you want further proof? I bet nobody can even name a player since Michael Jordan that would be able to lead a terrible team to the playoffs and possibly even further...Lebron's talents and leadership skills are very under-appreciated and he does everything seemingly so easy and has been doing it at such a consistent pace that we start to take it for granted!

I'm not saying you're wrong but this is just flat out dumb, how did you conduct this "experiment" and get you're answer? Did you go back in time and bring the players and have them play with the 76ers? It's just another opinion, don't act like you just came in here with facts, that's worse than just saying it's an opinion of yours.

europagnpilgrim
04-17-2016, 01:42 PM
Lets do an experiment that will help settle and prove which player is greater than the other. Lets start off by picking the absolute worst team in the NBA right now, which would be the Philadelphia 76ers, now lets take Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant and place them all in their primes.
The experiment will go like this...which of those 3 mentioned players, at their primes, would take the Sixers as they are right now and carry them into the playoffs and possibly further? The only player that truly stands out is Lebron James, and the other 2 don't even come close. If you were to take Kobe in his prime and stuck him with the current Sixers, they would be much better but won't make the playoffs and the same could be said about Durant as well, I highly doubt they even win more than 40 games.
If you want further proof? I bet nobody can even name a player since Michael Jordan that would be able to lead a terrible team to the playoffs and possibly even further...Lebron's talents and leadership skills are very under-appreciated and he does everything seemingly so easy and has been doing it at such a consistent pace that we start to take it for granted!

Big Dipper
Shaq Diesel
The Answer

they could carry this current Sixers squad to a playoff berth, your 'prime' versions that is, I call it young hungry and healthy

i.got.the.nutz
04-17-2016, 02:02 PM
When did Durant retire? As of now it's a no brainer. But it all depends on how Durant's career turns out until he retires. Stop trolling.

When did anyone say about currently? This threads premise is on Durant's whole career based on what we've seen. So stop trolling this thread and read the question again.

Scoots
04-17-2016, 02:29 PM
Just heard Raja Bell say that Kobe is NOT top 5 but is top 10. So the question then is LeBron top 5? Is Durant?

Bostonjorge
04-17-2016, 03:18 PM
Just heard Raja Bell say that Kobe is NOT top 5 but is top 10. So the question then is LeBron top 5? Is Durant?

Mark Jackson said Kobe was the greatest player ever. Magic said Kobe was the greatest laker ever.

Scoots
04-17-2016, 03:39 PM
Mark Jackson said Kobe was the greatest player ever. Magic said Kobe was the greatest laker ever.

Mark Jackson doesn't pay attention to what he's saying and Magic says what people want to hear. :)

Bostonjorge
04-17-2016, 03:45 PM
So James is the only guy who can carry the no talant sixers in a deep playoff run but at the same time can't carry a deep talant team like cavs to a easy championship win?

Sportsguy9695
04-17-2016, 03:51 PM
It can't be just about rings because that would suggest Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan and guys like Luke Walton and Adam Morrrison is better than Charles Barkley. If it's all about stats it would appear that guys who primarily score off of dunks and and the bunny jump hooks are better shooters than perimeter players.

I guess then you need to take everything in consideration at the end of the day.

GoferKing_
04-18-2016, 05:07 AM
Dayum. I'm a Kings fan and even for me Kobe is better than LBJ and KD...

Munkeysuit
04-18-2016, 08:29 AM
Prime Shaq could lead a terrible team to the playoffs.

Appreciate your opinion but a prime Shaq could not take this current Sixers team to the promise land. He'd need someone to pass him the ball and also shooters to spread the floor, and thats besides the fact the game is officiated WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY differently these days and I think we all know where I am going with that.

Munkeysuit
04-18-2016, 08:39 AM
I'm not saying you're wrong but this is just flat out dumb, how did you conduct this "experiment" and get you're answer? Did you go back in time and bring the players and have them play with the 76ers? It's just another opinion, don't act like you just came in here with facts, that's worse than just saying it's an opinion of yours.

Thank you for not saying I am wrong hahaha, and yes you're correct, it is just my opinion, you have every right to say whatever you want to say about me and my opinions. I am welcome to debate and freely subject myself to scrutiny and any type of feedback, so keep em coming! just make sure you at least teach me something I don't know while you're doing it or you may look like you're just hating.

Thank you!

Munkeysuit
04-18-2016, 08:40 AM
So James is the only guy who can carry the no talant sixers in a deep playoff run but at the same time can't carry a deep talant team like cavs to a easy championship win?

Out of the 3 mentioned players? Kobe, Durant and Lebron? YES!

mjqusoldier
04-18-2016, 09:03 AM
Too bad Lebron will never be as good as Kobe so slash thread. You can up with all the advanced stats u want but at the end of the day Bron still can't shoot very good and is still super Unclutch. Kobe had a killer instinct and did huge things in huge moments where Bron usually folds. Also lets not forget if Ray Ray doesn't save him he's 1 for 5 in Nba Finals but even 2 for 5 doesn't spell great to me 100

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 11:05 AM
Too bad Lebron will never be as good as Kobe so slash thread. You can up with all the advanced stats u want but at the end of the day Bron still can't shoot very good and is still super Unclutch. Kobe had a killer instinct and did huge things in huge moments where Bron usually folds. Also lets not forget if Ray Ray doesn't save him he's 1 for 5 in Nba Finals but even 2 for 5 doesn't spell great to me 100

Yeah.. he did huge things with his 6/24 performance against Boston. Let's not forget the refs helping the Lakers against the Kings and how Fisher/Horry were also hitting clutch shots. And clutch statistics show that LeBron is above Kobe in terms of final shots.. so you tell me what's going on here. LeBron may not be a great shooter but he makes up for it in various other ways. Is Kobe better than Kareem cause he can shoot better? 2-5 in the NBA Finals.. yeah, cause Kobe would have been able to lead a team to the NBA Finals and beat the Spurs at age 23. Kobe would have been able to carry the Cavs last season to beat the Warriors as well.. Makes sense. Prime LeBron+prime Shaq will have at least six rings. End of.

Tony_Starks
04-18-2016, 11:22 AM
i wish they would start playing those Lebron/ Kobe puppet commercials again just to solve this thing once and for all! Lol

Hawkeye15
04-18-2016, 01:22 PM
omfg this again

Tony_Starks
04-18-2016, 03:23 PM
I wonder as Curry continues to dominate and rack up rings will the kids use his greatness to belittle Lebrons?

Hopefully that foolishness retires with Kobe and we just appreciate individual greatness before they're on the way out the door.

Chronz
04-18-2016, 03:44 PM
So James is the only guy who can carry the no talant sixers in a deep playoff run but at the same time can't carry a deep talant team like cavs to a easy championship win?

Easy? LMFAO, nobody could given that the other teams are more talented and deep. Try trolling harder plz

Chronz
04-18-2016, 03:45 PM
I wonder as Curry continues to dominate and rack up rings will the kids use his greatness to belittle Lebrons?

Hopefully that foolishness retires with Kobe and we just appreciate individual greatness before they're on the way out the door.

Depends, does he get outplayed to the point where the losing team almost wins FMVP because of it?

Chronz
04-18-2016, 03:50 PM
Mark Jackson said Kobe was the greatest player ever. Magic said Kobe was the greatest laker ever.

The same Mark Jackson that held a championship caliber team back due to his infatuation with simplistic post/isolation basketball? SHOCKING!!!! LOL, if someone says Kobe is better than MJ, that should be the first sign to stop taking them seriously. Its why I stopped listening to Pippen when he put Bron on that level. Magic, well hes criticized Kobe alot over the years and doesn't Kobe say Magic is the greatest Laker ever? So wat does that tell you?

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 03:59 PM
The same Mark Jackson that held a championship caliber team back due to his infatuation with simplistic post/isolation basketball? SHOCKING!!!! LOL, if someone says Kobe is better than MJ, that should be the first sign to stop taking them seriously. Its why I stopped listening to Pippen when he put Bron on that level. Magic, well hes criticized Kobe alot over the years and doesn't Kobe say Magic is the greatest Laker ever? So wat does that tell you?

Pippen said LeBron may be the best. Nothing wrong with that. Look into what the current players today say about Jordan scoring that many points. MJ taking players 1v1 is heaven for guys like Curry, Durant, LeBron, and Kobe.

Tony_Starks
04-18-2016, 04:06 PM
Depends, does he get outplayed to the point where the losing team almost wins FMVP because of it?

Doesn't matter. You know all that counts are the ringzzzzz!

numba1CHANGsta
04-18-2016, 05:07 PM
Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals
LeBron is 2-4 in the Finals
KD is 0-1 in the Finals

As of right now saying LeBron or KD has had the better career than Kobe are delusional and are simply Kobe haters. I think this conversation needs to wait until their careers are over. By the way Kobe had to face very tough Western Conference teams including the Spurs who have 5 championships and still managed to win 5 rings. As for LeBron, he's had it easy out in the East with no legit threats and has always had 2 all-stars on his team to go along with a surplus of role players and he still has a losing record in the Finals.

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 05:17 PM
Lebron is better than Kobe because he's better than Kobe, its that simple....Lebron can be a top 5 all time player when its all said and done, Kobe is the 4 or 5th best Laker of all time at best.

Durant may end up higher ranked than Kobe but its not because of Lebron

numba1CHANGsta
04-18-2016, 05:29 PM
Lebron is better than Kobe because he's better than Kobe, its that simple....Lebron can be a top 5 all time player when its all said and done, Kobe is the 4 or 5th best Laker of all time at best.

Durant may end up higher ranked than Kobe but its not because of Lebron

LMAO funniest sh1t i've read in a while.

Chronz
04-18-2016, 05:41 PM
Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals
LeBron is 2-4 in the Finals
KD is 0-1 in the Finals

As of right now saying LeBron or KD has had the better career than Kobe are delusional and are simply Kobe haters. I think this conversation needs to wait until their careers are over. By the way Kobe had to face very tough Western Conference teams including the Spurs who have 5 championships and still managed to win 5 rings. As for LeBron, he's had it easy out in the East with no legit threats and has always had 2 all-stars on his team to go along with a surplus of role players and he still has a losing record in the Finals.

Why are they delusional? You really don't expect people to look at finals winning percentage like this is tennis right? Plz tell me that was a joke post.

As for the context you tried to provide, massive fail. It's almost as if you would give Bron more credit had he just missed the playoffs or lost to the superior team the way Kobe did.

Plz tell me what's so easy about seeing your all star support succumb to injuries you yourself have avoided despite carrying mvp loads....

Look man, i get that you love Kobe like family, but you gotta step your game up here, this Ain't the Lakers forum

Chronz
04-18-2016, 05:45 PM
Lebron is better than Kobe because he's better than Kobe, its that simple....Lebron can be a top 5 all time player when its all said and done, Kobe is the 4 or 5th best Laker of all time at best.

Durant may end up higher ranked than Kobe but its not because of Lebron
Magic and Kareem are the only2You could argue tho. Who's left? West? Maybe but that's an uphill battle. 2 or 3 is most realistic. I know Big Game James jad Shaq as his number1 but that was about3 or 4 years ago (when the Lakers were on basic television)

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 06:01 PM
Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals
LeBron is 2-4 in the Finals
KD is 0-1 in the Finals

As of right now saying LeBron or KD has had the better career than Kobe are delusional and are simply Kobe haters. I think this conversation needs to wait until their careers are over. By the way Kobe had to face very tough Western Conference teams including the Spurs who have 5 championships and still managed to win 5 rings. As for LeBron, he's had it easy out in the East with no legit threats and has always had 2 all-stars on his team to go along with a surplus of role players and he still has a losing record in the Finals.

Your reasoning as to the competition is contradictory to its finest. Do you even understand what you're typing? Unplug your keyboard for once and just think about the type of nonsense you write up next time. If according to you Kobe has had it tougher in the WC and LeBron has had it easier, why are you using their Finals record against LeBron? So if Kobe's Lakers post-Shaq and pre-Gasol made it to the NBA Finals and then lost to the Cavs, is it his fault they overachieved? Do you see how your reasoning is complete bs? Oh, and Kobe has five rings alright... some guy named Shaq (who was the best player in the NBA/top ten ever/most dominating modern big man/ranked higher than Kobe according to some) had nothing to do with it. When you adjust for their teammates, Kobe would never achieve the same type of success LeBron has achieved. That's a fact. "Always had 2 All-Stars"? So his first seven years for the Cavs, he had two-all stars? BTW, you ***** about LeBron's Finals but let's look at his first two NBA Finals with the Heat.

Lost to Mavs (who beat the Lakers).
Beat OKC (who beat the Lakers). So Kobe doesn't get beat down because he lost in the 1st/2nd round but when it's LeBron, we should penalize him for taking his team to the Finals. You are something special. Don't ruin Kobe's legacy by putting stupid assumptions here. No one wants to read that crap.

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 06:05 PM
Magic and Kareem are the only2You could argue tho. Who's left? West? Maybe but that's an uphill battle. 2 or 3 is most realistic. I know Big Game James jad Shaq as his number1 but that was about3 or 4 years ago (when the Lakers were on basic television)

Magic, Kareem, and Shaq and better than Kobe. I also put Wilt ahead of Kobe...I understand the length of time Wilt was a Laker is an issue but I think in the handful of years Wilt was a Laker was better than Kobe.

Kobe is a warrior and a great offensive force, but he wasn't as well rounded as some people make him out to be. He was good at everything but only great at shooting.

I this isn't a criticizing, being 5th behind Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq is nothing to be defensive or upset by...that is incredible company.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 06:09 PM
Magic, Kareem, and Shaq and better than Kobe. I also put Wilt ahead of Kobe...I understand the length of time Wilt was a Laker is an issue but I think in the handful of years Wilt was a Laker was better than Kobe.

Kobe is a warrior and a great offensive force, but he wasn't as well rounded as some people make him out to be. He was good at everything but only great at shooting.

I this isn't a criticizing, being 5th behind Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq is nothing to be defensive or upset by...that is incredible company.

Dude... stop. Magic, Kareem, and Shaq can definitely be argued. Wilt? He played four seasons for the Lakers or so and it never amounted to anything much. Much of Wilt's greatest years were way before he came to the Lakers. just stop, dude. In terms of career ranking, Kobe has achieved the most for the Lakers. There's simply no denying that.

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 06:13 PM
Dude... stop. Magic, Kareem, and Shaq can definitely be argued. Wilt? He played four seasons for the Lakers or so and it never amounted to anything much. Much of Wilt's greatest years were way before he came to the Lakers. just stop, dude. In terms of career ranking, Kobe has achieved the most for the Lakers. There's simply no denying that.

Read what I said, I acknowledged this

And as far as just stop, dude...are you 12.....if you don't want to hear others opinions, and just want to talk, then start a blog with no comments section so what you think is all that matters, or better yet put post it notes on your wall so you can't get any contradicting statements, by not reading where I acknowledged that Wilt only a handful of years on the Lakers and to be this arrogant, means you don't want to understand what others are saying, only try and sound smarter....which often has the opposite effect.


Also how do you possibly thinking talking like this, with so much arrogance can make anyone change there mind to your view. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I am merely posting my view on a discussion board, which is kind of the point of a discussion board.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 06:18 PM
Read what I said, I acknowledged this...take some midol and rest

And as far as just stop, dude...are you 12.....if you don't want to hear others opinions, and just want to talk, then start a blog with no comments section so what you think is all that matters.

What did you acknowledge? You're putting Wilt above Kobe in what shouldn't even be a discussion. You're not acknowledging anything... because if you did, you wouldn't put Wilt above Kobe. You're just saying it and then backtracking. Now you're saying it's your opinion after you just ACKNOWLEDGED that Wilt didn't achieve anything close to what Kobe has achieved? That's not an opinion. That's a fact. What did Wilt do better than Kobe in those five years that equates to what Kobe did for twenty years.. please tell. It's fine if you don't want to explain yourself and I apologize that you think I insulted you with the "dude, just stop." Happy? Now tell me what Wilt did for four seasons that surpassed Kobe's 20 seasons.

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 06:21 PM
What did you acknowledge? You're putting Wilt above Kobe in what shouldn't even be a discussion. You're not acknowledging anything... because if you did, you wouldn't put Wilt above Kobe. You're just saying it and then backtracking. Now you're saying it's your opinion after you just ACKNOWLEDGED that Wilt didn't achieve anything close to what Kobe has achieved? That's not an opinion. That's a fact. What did Wilt do better than Kobe in those five years that equates to what Kobe did for twenty years.. please tell. It's fine if you don't want to explain yourself and I apologize that you think I insulted you with the "dude, just stop." Happy? Now tell me what Wilt did for four seasons that surpassed Kobe's 20 seasons.

read what I wrote after the first....

You are blind and trying to sound smart and right....I am merely expressing my view and even after I pointed out that I acknowledge the short period of time Wilt was there you clearly didn't go back and read it.

Keep trying to sound smart to strangers on the internet when you won't even take the time to read what you quote, then go back to when called out on it.

No really keep doing that, you just sound more and more credible and capable of changing someone's contrary view.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 06:26 PM
read what I wrote after the first....

You are blind and trying to sound smart and right....I am merely expressing my view and even after I pointed out that I acknowledge the short period of time Wilt was there you clearly didn't go back and read it.

Keep trying to sound smart to strangers on the internet when you won't even take the time to read what you quote, then go back to when called out on it.

No really keep doing that, you just sound more and more credible and capable of changing someone's contrary view.

Okay, I apologize for trying to sound smart. Can you tell me what Wilt achieved in four years that > Kobe's twenty years? Or are you going to just keep saying it's your opinion and then not being able to explain yourself? That's called being biased.

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 06:35 PM
Okay, I apologize for trying to sound smart. Can you tell me what Wilt achieved in four years that > Kobe's twenty years? Or are you going to just keep saying it's your opinion and then not being able to explain yourself? That's called being biased.

Of course Kobe did more in 20 years, but I'm to going to elaborate here, Wilt was better overall during his time as Laker than Kobe was....Kobe is an all time great scorer, and good at other things....Wilt, even during his time was a force at most things on the court. As a Laker, Wilt wasn't the scorer that Kobe was, but Kobe was never the overall player that Wilt.

I acknowledged the short period of time, which you wouldn't acknowledge until the 3rd time I called you out on it, because I know its a valid point, I didn't hide from that, but you arrogantly ignored it multiple times.

I also explained some of my reasoning on Kobe's ranking in the same thing you initially commented on and clearly didn't want to read....you just wanted to jump on your high horse and go after someone that doesn't agree with you.

And you said just stop, dude because you didn't want to read a contrary view, and to be fair you didn't actually read it, if you want to be agreed with and only read things that you agree with, do that, but you went on the offensive without reading or understanding what I said, you had no interest in any view contrary to your own, and you don't want that on a message board, and this topic isn't even in the Lakers forum.

Put post it notes on your wall, write a blog with no comments section, or get a pair of balls when talking in a message board, because you sound ridiculously insecure on a human level to me, you are showing so much weakness to try and sound so arrogant and smart.

I also fully acknowledge how entitled I sound, but I can live with that.

My final point is a question, posting the way you do, how do you think anyone can change a view to your point when you ignore what you quote, and say things like just stop, dude because you don't want to understand the point they are making or come up with a real counter argument and post in with any type of intelligence?

You sound less and less credible with every reply you had to any of my comments, and I sounded arrogant and entitled in my responses, but I understand that and don't hide from it.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 06:39 PM
Of course Kobe did more in 20 years, but I'm to going to elaborate here, Wilt was better overall during his time as Laker than Kobe was....Kobe is an all time great scorer, and good at other things....Wilt, even during his time was a force at most things on the court. As a Laker, Wilt wasn't the scorer that Kobe was, but Kobe was never the overall player that Wilt.

I acknowledged the short period of time, which you wouldn't acknowledge until the 3rd time I called you out on it, because I know its a valid point, I didn't hide from that, but you arrogantly ignored it multiple times.

I also explained some of my reasoning on Kobe's ranking in the same thing you initially commented on and clearly didn't want to read....you just wanted to jump on your high horse and go after someone that doesn't agree with you.

And you said just stop, dude because you didn't want to read a contrary view, and to be fair you didn't actually read it, if you want to be agreed with and only read things that you agree with, do that, but you went on the offensive without reading or understanding what I said, you had no interest in any view contrary to your own, and you don't want that on a message board, and this topic isn't even in the Lakers forum.

Put post it notes on your wall, write a blog with no comments section, or get a pair of balls when talking in a message board, because you sound ridiculously insecure on a human level to me, you are showing so much weakness to try and sound so arrogant and smart.

I also fully acknowledge how entitled I sound, but I can live with that.

My final point is a question, posting the way you do, how do you think anyone can change a view to your point when you ignore what you quote, and say things like just stop, dude because you don't want to understand the point they are making or come up with a real counter argument and post in with any type of intelligence?

You sound less and less credible with every reply you had to any of my comments, and I sounded arrogant and entitled in my responses, but I understand that and don't hide from it.

1) I didn't ignore it. I just don't get how you acknowledge the short four years and still put Wilt above Kobe.
2) This is about career rankings.. not "who had the best four seasons." Wilt achieved nothing in comparison to what Kobe achieved. Overall game? What the hell does that mean? You're comparing a SG to Wilt's dominance of lameduck centers?
3) Again, you still didn't mention what Wilt did in four seasons that would put him above Kobe. Instead, you try and act like I am bashing your head with a bat. Just answer the question. If it's your opinion, then just admit you're being biased.. because you sure as hell didn't give one good reason why Wilt>Kobe. Championships? ASG's? What did Wilt do better, please tell me! You're asking me a question but you didn't even answer mine.. you just keep saying it's your opinion. That's not how anything works in a discussion. I can say Rubio is better than Magic because he's just better even though Rubio has zero rings, zero awards for anything. But hey, it's "my opinion." I don't need to sound credible here. This isn't about me. It's about you thinking someone has a knife on your throat yelling at you. Just answer the question.

Actually, just ignore this post. I don't want you to think I am insulting you (despite you being the one with the direct insults) in a subject you clearly don't wish to explain yourself in. Don't worry Philly, don't admit anything! You're right!

PhillyFaninLA
04-18-2016, 06:41 PM
So Lebron, Durant, and Kobe all played basketball

now back on topic

WaDe03
04-18-2016, 06:50 PM
Wade>LeBron>Kobe>Durant>Davis>Jordan

numba1CHANGsta
04-18-2016, 07:03 PM
Your reasoning as to the competition is contradictory to its finest. Do you even understand what you're typing? Unplug your keyboard for once and just think about the type of nonsense you write up next time. If according to you Kobe has had it tougher in the WC and LeBron has had it easier, why are you using their Finals record against LeBron? So if Kobe's Lakers post-Shaq and pre-Gasol made it to the NBA Finals and then lost to the Cavs, is it his fault they overachieved? Do you see how your reasoning is complete bs? Oh, and Kobe has five rings alright... some guy named Shaq (who was the best player in the NBA/top ten ever/most dominating modern big man/ranked higher than Kobe according to some) had nothing to do with it. When you adjust for their teammates, Kobe would never achieve the same type of success LeBron has achieved. That's a fact. "Always had 2 All-Stars"? So his first seven years for the Cavs, he had two-all stars? BTW, you ***** about LeBron's Finals but let's look at his first two NBA Finals with the Heat.

Lost to Mavs (who beat the Lakers).
Beat OKC (who beat the Lakers). So Kobe doesn't get beat down because he lost in the 1st/2nd round but when it's LeBron, we should penalize him for taking his team to the Finals. You are something special. Don't ruin Kobe's legacy by putting stupid assumptions here. No one wants to read that crap.

LMFAO those Lakers teams weren't good, why are you comparing that Heat team to an old washed up Lakers team? You make no sense bro maybe you should try watching another sport cuz basketball isn't for you

numba1CHANGsta
04-18-2016, 07:06 PM
Why are they delusional? You really don't expect people to look at finals winning percentage like this is tennis right? Plz tell me that was a joke post.

As for the context you tried to provide, massive fail. It's almost as if you would give Bron more credit had he just missed the playoffs or lost to the superior team the way Kobe did.

Plz tell me what's so easy about seeing your all star support succumb to injuries you yourself have avoided despite carrying mvp loads....

Look man, i get that you love Kobe like family, but you gotta step your game up here, this Ain't the Lakers forum

So right this moment you think Lebron and KD have had a better career than Kobe? LMAO you're the biggest Kobe hater I know. BTW no one remembers stats or MVP awards, everyone remembers memorable moments and championships.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 07:51 PM
LMFAO those Lakers teams weren't good, why are you comparing that Heat team to an old washed up Lakers team? You make no sense bro maybe you should try watching another sport cuz basketball isn't for you

2010-2011, they have the fourth best record. Ranked top ten offensively and top 6 defensively.
2011-2012, fifth best record.

Why are you ignoring facts? And it seems like supporting casts doesn't matter unless it's Kobe's team.

europagnpilgrim
04-18-2016, 09:22 PM
1) I didn't ignore it. I just don't get how you acknowledge the short four years and still put Wilt above Kobe.
2) This is about career rankings.. not "who had the best four seasons." Wilt achieved nothing in comparison to what Kobe achieved. Overall game? What the hell does that mean? You're comparing a SG to Wilt's dominance of lameduck centers?
3) Again, you still didn't mention what Wilt did in four seasons that would put him above Kobe. Instead, you try and act like I am bashing your head with a bat. Just answer the question. If it's your opinion, then just admit you're being biased.. because you sure as hell didn't give one good reason why Wilt>Kobe. Championships? ASG's? What did Wilt do better, please tell me! You're asking me a question but you didn't even answer mine.. you just keep saying it's your opinion. That's not how anything works in a discussion. I can say Rubio is better than Magic because he's just better even though Rubio has zero rings, zero awards for anything. But hey, it's "my opinion." I don't need to sound credible here. This isn't about me. It's about you thinking someone has a knife on your throat yelling at you. Just answer the question.

Actually, just ignore this post. I don't want you to think I am insulting you (despite you being the one with the direct insults) in a subject you clearly don't wish to explain yourself in. Don't worry Philly, don't admit anything! You're right!

Kobe B over Wilt for entire career as ''Lakers'', but imagine this food for thought, throw that young Wilt rookie year on that Lakers team with Baylor/West and I guarantee you this wouldn't even be an argument at all, he would clearly have made The Logo(or maybe he would have been the nba logo) Finals w-l record better than 1-9, they went to like 3 Finals with the old version of Wilt, and had a 33 game win streak and best record ever until Bulls and now Warriors, Wilt did that with two different teams but I feel with a HOF duo they would have easily won 70 games more than once in 14 seasons with the Big Dipper

Wilt would have 14 yrs of Lakers dominance and a Finals trip every year for the most part, which would double the appearances by Kobe B, with a at worst 10-4 record or better in Finals making him the clear cut best most dominant player ever , he already owns that title to me with just 2 measly worthless rings

Wilt is more dominant than Kobe from scoring to defense to passing the ball, Kobe is a guard so I would imagine him being a better FT/Range shooter, but Wilt also had a 15ft bank shot(Duncan style) before Duncan, so Kobe B is arguable the best Laker outside of Magic, and even some have Kareem over him, but Wilt didn't play long enough as a Laker to be over any of'em, even Shaq and his 8yrs(vs 20) aren't enough but its double the amount of Wilt's tenure so he could have a stronger case

but comparing Wilt vs Kobe is utter nonsense unless it pertains to who was a 'greater' Laker, 20yrs vs 4 is nothing to compare

but Wilts 14yrs in total mop Kobe's 20, with ease
had they kept track of blocks Wilt would average a triple double for his entire career, nobody can be compared to The Big Dipper on a solo act level, his career line would be like 30ppg and 22rpg and 15-18bpg

he said had it just been about scoring he could have average 40-70ppg for his career

he had 5 sixty point games before his 100pt feat, I'm sure he could have average 60ppg for his entire career had he wanted to, he was a literal Giant(strength and height wise) on the hardwood in supreme Olympic shape on the hardwood, he almost dislocated young Shaq shoulder with a friendly handshake at 50 yrs of age

Pts before his 100pt game

61
65
67
26
61
46
48
67
48
42

Kobe had like 62pts through three quarters vs the Mavs, Wilt would have had that by halftime in a lot of his nba games if he wasn't a complete team player and just wanted to score and do nothing else, easily, on any team regardless the talent level in his day

joedaheights
04-18-2016, 11:17 PM
Just speaking from all-time ranking perspective. At this rate Durant's career is projecting, does he end up higher than Kobe all-time? Consensus is Lebron is higher than Kobe all-time because of much better advanced stats. Durant is on pace to pretty much shatter Kobe's advanced stats numbers career wise, so just curious if Durant continues this pace does he pass Kobe all-time regardless of rings.

Not a chance…

Durant is one of the most overrated players of all time.. he's all marketing syrup and numbers when it doesn't matter.. and none of the substance of other all time greats… he's light in the *** and Lebron really pushed him around in the 12 Finals.

I had this discussion with a fellow Bulls fans. Most Bulls fans who post on this board at least passive aggressively defend Paxson and are beyond basketball stupid. When I made this claim, one of the biggest rubes on the board started in with…

"You're crazy! Stupid. Look at his numbers in the 2012 Finals!"

He thought this was the lock of all time. Then I replied that Durant disappeared for GIGANTIC stretches of that series.

He asked me to prove it. So, I went to the play by play and began posting it, because sure enough, when it mattered, Durant pulled some of the biggest houdini quarters of all time.. and suddenly he didn't want to talk about it.

Durant is basically the Dominique Wilkins of this era. To put him above Kobe Bryant.. and my god do I hate Kobe Bryant, with his 2001 hot air balloon halfro walking around talking about how everything needed to "impwoove"… I hate the man with the fire of 1000 suns, but he's so much better than Durant.

FlashBolt
04-18-2016, 11:19 PM
Kobe B over Wilt for entire career as ''Lakers'', but imagine this food for thought, throw that young Wilt rookie year on that Lakers team with Baylor/West and I guarantee you this wouldn't even be an argument at all, he would clearly have made The Logo(or maybe he would have been the nba logo) Finals w-l record better than 1-9, they went to like 3 Finals with the old version of Wilt, and had a 33 game win streak and best record ever until Bulls and now Warriors, Wilt did that with two different teams but I feel with a HOF duo they would have easily won 70 games more than once in 14 seasons with the Big Dipper

Wilt would have 14 yrs of Lakers dominance and a Finals trip every year for the most part, which would double the appearances by Kobe B, with a at worst 10-4 record or better in Finals making him the clear cut best most dominant player ever , he already owns that title to me with just 2 measly worthless rings

Wilt is more dominant than Kobe from scoring to defense to passing the ball, Kobe is a guard so I would imagine him being a better FT/Range shooter, but Wilt also had a 15ft bank shot(Duncan style) before Duncan, so Kobe B is arguable the best Laker outside of Magic, and even some have Kareem over him, but Wilt didn't play long enough as a Laker to be over any of'em, even Shaq and his 8yrs(vs 20) aren't enough but its double the amount of Wilt's tenure so he could have a stronger case

but comparing Wilt vs Kobe is utter nonsense unless it pertains to who was a 'greater' Laker, 20yrs vs 4 is nothing to compare

but Wilts 14yrs in total mop Kobe's 20, with ease
had they kept track of blocks Wilt would average a triple double for his entire career, nobody can be compared to The Big Dipper on a solo act level, his career line would be like 30ppg and 22rpg and 15-18bpg

he said had it just been about scoring he could have average 40-70ppg for his career

he had 5 sixty point games before his 100pt feat, I'm sure he could have average 60ppg for his entire career had he wanted to, he was a literal Giant(strength and height wise) on the hardwood in supreme Olympic shape on the hardwood, he almost dislocated young Shaq shoulder with a friendly handshake at 50 yrs of age

Pts before his 100pt game

61
65
67
26
61
46
48
67
48
42

Kobe had like 62pts through three quarters vs the Mavs, Wilt would have had that by halftime in a lot of his nba games if he wasn't a complete team player and just wanted to score and do nothing else, easily, on any team regardless the talent level in his day

we're talking about the greatest Lakers, though. Do we count Kareem's ring for the Bucks as a ring for the Lakers now? And no doubt Wilt would score more.. competition was very dull and Kobe is a guard. You can't compare a center with a guard in terms of output. My argument with that dude is that you can't compare a 4 year career to a 20 year. It's a joke.

Bostonjorge
04-19-2016, 02:43 AM
Easy? LMFAO, nobody could given that the other teams are more talented and deep. Try trolling harder plz

Trolling is saying James and only James can carry the sixers team to the playoffs. That's a joke. You put James in the west with the sixers and they miss the playoffs all together. In the east Kobe, Durant, Kidd, P. George...... List goes on for a while of players who can sneak in the east playoffs.

Now you replace James on this cavs team with Kobe/Durant and you have a better team. A team that can actually run a offense and put players in actual sets. Kobe and Durant won't need love and everyone else all spread out to be effective. Both can actually play off the ball and let Irving run the offense. The difference is Kobe/Durant will find a way to fit and not the other way around.

Scoots
04-19-2016, 12:09 PM
You do all realize this argument will never die and none of you will ever convince the others that they are wrong ... right?

Chronz
04-19-2016, 12:52 PM
Trolling is saying James and only James can carry the sixers team to the playoffs. That's a joke. You put James in the west with the sixers and they miss the playoffs all together. In the east Kobe, Durant, Kidd, P. George...... List goes on for a while of players who can sneak in the east playoffs.

So you're fighting fire with fire, gotya. I don't really think any1 guy could that team into the playoffs but if anyone could do it, wouldn't you choose the guy who can do the most all around? Remember how awful Kobe was outside of the triangle when he tried to do it all? That team wasn't even a .500 squad and it was more talented than these Sixers. Whereas Bron has won 60 with the likes of Mo Williams as his sidekick.



Now you replace James on this cavs team with Kobe/Durant and you have a better team. A team that can actually run a offense and put players in actual sets. Kobe and Durant won't need love and everyone else all spread out to be effective. Both can actually play off the ball and let Irving run the offense. The difference is Kobe/Durant will find a way to fit and not the other way around
Newsflash, Bron runs the offense because Kyrie essentially plays the Kobe role since he's so inept as a playmaker. Bron has actually performed better over the years without his sidekicks so spare me the "to be effective " BS. Bron has dominated with a backcourt of Hughes and Snow ffs.

Cleveland STRUGGLES without Bron, Kobe has always won chips on teams that could stay afloat without him, hell there was a year where the team was actually better without his ballhoggery (iirc that was the year Phil tried to get him traded for team players who can't shoot but can run an offense, like Kidd) the experience humbled Kobe when he returned the team but only for a few years when he refused to listen to his coach and ignored the gameplan to feed his superior teammate.
Good luck finding anything that bad in Brons career, pretty sure nobody has ever tried to get him traded. Then in his 2 runs as the leader, pretty sure the Lakers won more games without Kobe than Cleveland has without Bron (they definitely played with better efficiency) which is big ducking deal considering Kobe rarely missed a game and the Cavs had plenty of chances to step up. Part of me thinks Kobe would rather play through injuries because he was afraid people would see how stacked his team was without him like during the 3peat plus he gets that warrior label.

Running those sets (lol such a vague comment btw) aren't going to yield a better offense than what Bron can provide but even pretending you're might have a point, you also have to factor in the undeniable FACT that Kobe is an inferior rebounder and nowhere near as versatile defensively so you better pray Kobe can make the offense significantly better. Here's the thing tho, he's never led a better offense than peak Bron so good luck finding any evidence that he could do so there. So you lose the ability to play small with Kobe and you now lack the size/mass to throw at opposing SF.

So you lose ALL of that, but somehow Kobe will make them better cuz of "sets" lmfao

Chronz
04-19-2016, 12:56 PM
You do all realize this argument will never die and none of you will ever convince the others that they are wrong ... right?
In all my years of being here, you can probably count the minds I've changed with one hand. Believe me, that's not why we debate. I is here to talk ball, not blow minds.
Those days ended long ago

PhillyFaninLA
04-19-2016, 12:58 PM
You do all realize this argument will never die and none of you will ever convince the others that they are wrong ... right?

In 10 - 20 years this argument will work itself out. Its to fresh, what Kobe's true place in history will start to develop and want he gets inducted into the hall of fame we will relive him as we really see him and not the reactionary way we do now.

Time away will show his true place and legacy.

Tony_Starks
04-19-2016, 02:21 PM
When you read some of this malarkey it explains why Kobe only got 1 mvp.

It also explains why the 1 mvp they finally conceded to him was probably the least deserved, it was a make-up call.

Chronz
04-19-2016, 02:28 PM
When you read some of this malarkey it explains why Kobe only got 1 mvp.

It also explains why the 1 mvp they finally conceded to him was probably the least deserved, it was a make-up call.

Well he wasn't winning it when Shaq was around, history shows you don't win MVPs on .500 teams and the very few times it's happened they were probably in a weak field or were more productive than Kobe. So he had a really short window to win those cuz there's no way he's winning Brons when hes carrying bums to 60+

Jamiecballer
04-19-2016, 02:57 PM
So right this moment you think Lebron and KD have had a better career than Kobe? LMAO you're the biggest Kobe hater I know. BTW no one remembers stats or MVP awards, everyone remembers memorable moments and championships.
This is precisely why stats are taken in the first place LOL

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Tony_Starks
04-19-2016, 03:01 PM
Well he wasn't winning it when Shaq was around, history shows you don't win MVPs on .500 teams and the very few times it's happened they were probably in a weak field or were more productive than Kobe. So he had a really short window to win those cuz there's no way he's winning Brons when hes carrying bums to 60+

True but there are some extraordinary situations where you go against the grain of conventional voting.

Like Lebron last year, I wouldn't have gave him FMVP on the losing team but I couldn't be mad if he got it. It was a close call.

There were years where it was blatant hating on Kobe, like he was barely getting third or fourth place votes while he was balling out of control.

FlashBolt
04-20-2016, 02:19 AM
True but there are some extraordinary situations where you go against the grain of conventional voting.

Like Lebron last year, I wouldn't have gave him FMVP on the losing team but I couldn't be mad if he got it. It was a close call.

There were years where it was blatant hating on Kobe, like he was barely getting third or fourth place votes while he was balling out of control.

Define "balling out of control" for me and specifically, give me the season. LeBron didn't get the FMVP but the FMVP isn't judged by the same metric as regular season MVP. Reg season MVP trumps Finals MVP any day. James did deserve the Finals MVP IMO but I'm not a fan of handing awards to losers. Sorry, that's how life works. James got screwed for that unanimous MVP because some idiot in NY really thought Melo was the MVP.

RLundi
04-20-2016, 07:36 AM
Durant has to win a ring first to be even mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. As of now, he isn't close, even if he keeps this up for the majority of the rest of his career. Stats aren't everything; he needs to win multiple championships to be in the same realm as Bean, which is a top 10-15 all-time player. Right now and until he does more, Durant is just a glorified Grant Hill.

KnicksorBust
04-20-2016, 07:54 AM
Durant has to win a ring first to be even mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. As of now, he isn't close, even if he keeps this up for the majority of the rest of his career. Stats aren't everything; he needs to win multiple championships to be in the same realm as Bean, which is a top 10-15 all-time player. Right now and until he does more, Durant is just a glorified Grant Hill.

I'm stubborn like this guy. We've already seen peak Durant. He's still smack dab in the middle of an amazing prime that could last another 7-8 seasons but to me... Durant could win more scoring titles...make more All-NBA teams... even win another MVP or 2. And he still won't crack my top 10 unless he gets some hardware. I'm sure we could go through year by year of his career and find excuses of age, chemistry, coaching, injuries, etc. but at this point he's been playing with uber talented all-nba Westbrook and all-nba defender Ibaka for long enough to have gotten it done. To me he's getting extremely close to capping out his ceiling on the all-time list with regular season accomplishments and it's all about titles now.

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 08:06 AM
Durant has to win a ring first to be even mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. As of now, he isn't close, even if he keeps this up for the majority of the rest of his career. Stats aren't everything; he needs to win multiple championships to be in the same realm as Bean, which is a top 10-15 all-time player. Right now and until he does more, Durant is just a glorified Grant Hill.

Say Robert Horry is better than Kobe Bryant or acknowledge that the ring argument is flawed and basing a player on a team accomplishment is not an accurate measure.

valade16
04-20-2016, 10:47 AM
Say Robert Horry is better than Kobe Bryant or acknowledge that the ring argument is flawed and basing a player on a team accomplishment is not an accurate measure.

But that is a faulty comparison because it is comparing an alpha or superstar level player to a role player.

If you do an apples to apples comparison of superstar player to superstar player, yes rings absolutely matter. Or is it simply coincidence that the people all considered Top 10 have won multiple rings?

KnicksorBust
04-20-2016, 11:22 AM
Say Robert Horry is better than Kobe Bryant or acknowledge that the ring argument is flawed and basing a player on a team accomplishment is not an accurate measure.

Say Karl Malone is better than Tim Duncan or acknowledge that ignoring rings is flawed.


But that is a faulty comparison because it is comparing an alpha or superstar level player to a role player.

If you do an apples to apples comparison of superstar player to superstar player, yes rings absolutely matter. Or is it simply coincidence that the people all considered Top 10 have won multiple rings?

Feels like I've posted something similar to this at least once a year on this site. :clap: No one has Horry above Durant. Durant was an MVP, I don't think Horry even made an all-star team. That's foolishness.

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 12:17 PM
But that is a faulty comparison because it is comparing an alpha or superstar level player to a role player.

If you do an apples to apples comparison of superstar player to superstar player, yes rings absolutely matter. Or is it simply coincidence that the people all considered Top 10 have won multiple rings?


So is judging an individual by a team accomplishment, that is the point...can't say rings rings rings, then not say player x with more rings is better than player y

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 12:19 PM
Say Karl Malone is better than Tim Duncan or acknowledge that ignoring rings is flawed.



Feels like I've posted something similar to this at least once a year on this site. :clap: No one has Horry above Durant. Durant was an MVP, I don't think Horry even made an all-star team. That's foolishness.


Out of all the NBA players in NBA history with no rings, why did you use a guy who is a hall of famer to make your point

valade16
04-20-2016, 12:48 PM
So is judging an individual by a team accomplishment, that is the point...can't say rings rings rings, then not say player x with more rings is better than player y

But every stat is affected by the team. Nobody is getting points in a vacuum. The perfect example is LaMarcus Aldridge. Look at his stats his last year with Portland and his first year in SA:

23.4 PPG | 10.2 RPG | 46.6 FG% | 22.8 PER | .528 TS% | .165 WS/48 | 1.4 VORP
18.0 PPG | 8.5 RPG | 51.3 FG% | 22.4 PER | .566 TS% | .215 WS/48 | 2.2 VORP

Are we supposed to believe that LaMarcus Aldridge got magically more efficient at the age of 30? That he suddenly became a better player? Of course not. The main thing that changed was what team he was on. His teammates, the scheme, his role, etc. all that changed and so did his stats.

Nobody's stats are unaffected by the team they play on. In a very real sense, every stat is a team stat to a degree.

KnicksorBust
04-20-2016, 01:01 PM
Say Karl Malone is better than Tim Duncan or acknowledge that ignoring rings is flawed.



Feels like I've posted something similar to this at least once a year on this site. :clap: No one has Horry above Durant. Durant was an MVP, I don't think Horry even made an all-star team. That's foolishness.


Out of all the NBA players in NBA history with no rings, why did you use a guy who is a hall of famer to make your point

Because despite Karl Malone having a more impressive regular season career than Duncan, no one would rank the Mailman > The Big Fundamental. Why? Ringzzz

Sportsguy9695
04-20-2016, 01:06 PM
Durant has to win a ring first to be even mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. As of now, he isn't close, even if he keeps this up for the majority of the rest of his career. Stats aren't everything; he needs to win multiple championships to be in the same realm as Bean, which is a top 10-15 all-time player. Right now and until he does more, Durant is just a glorified Grant Hill.
I agree with you one hundred percent. He needs a title to be in the same breath of bron

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 01:30 PM
Because despite Karl Malone having a more impressive regular season career than Duncan, no one would rank the Mailman > The Big Fundamental. Why? Ringzzz

Duncan is better because he is a better all around players or not....if I could take an 20 year old Karl Malone or a 20 year Tim Duncan and start a franchise I am taking Duncan because he is a much better overall player, rings or not Duncan is better.

I am also saying judge the player on the player, not the team, not the stats, not the accolades...by judging a player based on what they actually can do then I will have a better perspective on talent and be able to build a better team around them.

If you say rings, you are saying, I don't care about the player skill set, only about accolades than can only be achieved by team accolades....that is the difference in me saying you don't judge a player by rings, and you reversing the argument.

If you are judging 2 players based on ability then rings are a seriously flawed measure....rings and stats tell you what someone did in a certain set of circumstances, they don't tell you which player is better, more talented, more athletic, stronger, faster, more passionate...rings tell you known of that, heck most stats don't tell you most of that, so yes it is very flawed, and I understand most people will disregard the validity of my point because they don't want to accept or understand it.

valade16
04-20-2016, 01:48 PM
If you say rings, you are saying, I don't care about the player skill set, only about accolades than can only be achieved by team accolades....that is the difference in me saying you don't judge a player by rings, and you reversing the argument.

If you are judging 2 players based on ability then rings are a seriously flawed measure....rings and stats tell you what someone did in a certain set of circumstances, they don't tell you which player is better, more talented, more athletic, stronger, faster, more passionate...rings tell you known of that, heck most stats don't tell you most of that, so yes it is very flawed, and I understand most people will disregard the validity of my point because they don't want to accept or understand it.

But rings affect people's perception of their abilities, even if they aren't aware of that influence. Do you think it's coincidence that the best players to ever play the game just so happen to be those with the most rings? The most common top 11 players by ranking are some variation of (in position order):

Magic Johnson - 5 Rings
Michael Jordan - 6 Rings
Kobe Bryant - 5 Rings
Larry Bird - 3 Rings
LeBron James - 2 Rings
Tim Duncan - 5 Rings
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 5 Rings
Shaquille O'Neal - 4 Rings
Wilt Chamberlain - 2 Rings
Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 Rings
Bill Russell - 9 Rings

Is it just coincidence that the best players just so happen to have the most rings? Either there is a correlation between the best players winning rings or there is a correlation between people thinking those with the most rings are the best.

Chronz
04-20-2016, 02:03 PM
So right this moment you think Lebron and KD have had a better career than Kobe? LMAO you're the biggest Kobe hater I know. BTW no one remembers stats or MVP awards, everyone remembers memorable moments and championships.

KD not yet, Bron and Kobe are a wash to me but that means I can understand why someone would choose either one. Point being, they aren't "delusional".

And what do I care about what the laymen remember? The entire reason we track stats are because memories are faulty anyways.

ewing
04-20-2016, 02:06 PM
Chronz isn't a laymen and he doesn't care them :)

Chronz
04-20-2016, 02:09 PM
Say Robert Horry is better than Kobe Bryant or acknowledge that the ring argument is flawed and basing a player on a team accomplishment is not an accurate measure.

when having this debate, its best not to bring up Horry. Bring up Hayes or Hondo (Cousy) as the "winners" who many dont hold in such lofty regard. Charles Barkley is more of a winner than some guys who have actually won.

Chronz
04-20-2016, 02:10 PM
Chronz isn't a laymen and he doesn't care them :)

Wanna hop on my high horse yet?

ewing
04-20-2016, 02:14 PM
Wanna hop on my high horse yet?

yeah, lets do it high on 4/20

KnicksorBust
04-20-2016, 02:21 PM
Duncan is better because he is a better all around players or not....if I could take an 20 year old Karl Malone or a 20 year Tim Duncan and start a franchise I am taking Duncan because he is a much better overall player, rings or not Duncan is better.

I am also saying judge the player on the player, not the team, not the stats, not the accolades...by judging a player based on what they actually can do then I will have a better perspective on talent and be able to build a better team around them.

If you say rings, you are saying, I don't care about the player skill set, only about accolades than can only be achieved by team accolades....that is the difference in me saying you don't judge a player by rings, and you reversing the argument.

If you are judging 2 players based on ability then rings are a seriously flawed measure....rings and stats tell you what someone did in a certain set of circumstances, they don't tell you which player is better, more talented, more athletic, stronger, faster, more passionate...rings tell you known of that, heck most stats don't tell you most of that, so yes it is very flawed, and I understand most people will disregard the validity of my point because they don't want to accept or understand it.

I'll bite. Who would you judge to be superior between Tracy McGrady and Jason Kidd?

FlashBolt
04-20-2016, 05:13 PM
So is judging an individual by a team accomplishment, that is the point...can't say rings rings rings, then not say player x with more rings is better than player y

I think what they're referencing is that you have to compare players with a similar "it" factor. Obviously no one is advocating Horry>Jordan since Horry was a bench player while Jordan was a superstar. I'd pack Kobe/KD/James/Curry/Wade/Duncan into the superstar category so it's only fair we do that. No one has a top ten ranking just based off rings unless they are really THAT obsessed with ring count.

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 06:20 PM
when having this debate, its best not to bring up Horry. Bring up Hayes or Hondo (Cousy) as the "winners" who many dont hold in such lofty regard. Charles Barkley is more of a winner than some guys who have actually won.

This is my point....rings don't matter when judging and individual as an individual, which this topic is about.

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 06:25 PM
I think what they're referencing is that you have to compare players with a similar "it" factor. Obviously no one is advocating Horry>Jordan since Horry was a bench player while Jordan was a superstar. I'd pack Kobe/KD/James/Curry/Wade/Duncan into the superstar category so it's only fair we do that. No one has a top ten ranking just based off rings unless they are really THAT obsessed with ring count.


Some of these posters talk about rings as if they are the end all and be all of judging a player, that is my point, if that is your standard than you have to say that Horry is better than Kobe (i'n using him because that is who the TC made this topic about).

I am pointing out a major flaw in judging a player, not judging a legacy.

To those people saying rings rings rings and that is all that matters need to admit that Horry is better than Kobe....my argument is if you take Lebron, Kobe, and Durant (since those are who this topic is about) at 20 years old, no players on a roster, no coach, nothing but the first piece added to a team which would it be, there are no stats, no accolades at that point, you can only consider the players skill and nothing else.

People who say rings or but the stats say, are missing a lot of the game, rings are about teams and about adding to a legacy, not about who is better than who.

PhillyFaninLA
04-20-2016, 06:26 PM
I'll bite. Who would you judge to be superior between Tracy McGrady and Jason Kidd?

That is a great question. If McGrady didn't have those injuries who knows what he would have been. While I think McGrady is better, I would take Kidd because its safer in this case. McGrady may have become the superior player.

Jamiecballer
04-20-2016, 07:26 PM
But that is a faulty comparison because it is comparing an alpha or superstar level player to a role player.

If you do an apples to apples comparison of superstar player to superstar player, yes rings absolutely matter. Or is it simply coincidence that the people all considered Top 10 have won multiple rings?
It's not a comparison, he's pointing out the absurdity of using it as a basis for comparison

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Chronz
04-21-2016, 02:57 AM
This is my point....rings don't matter when judging and individual as an individual, which this topic is about.
But that's a stupid way of proving that point. Adam Morrison has a ring and he Prolly played 2 minutes. You think anyone gives a ****? The value in championships come when you are THE deciding factor. Horry was a role player and nobody has ever pretended rings won without leading the way are as valuable as the primary guy winning them

valade16
04-21-2016, 09:40 AM
It's not a comparison, he's pointing out the absurdity of using it as a basis for comparison

But it's not absurd though.

You shouldn't use rings as the sole determiner or reduce it down to "more rings = better", but you shouldn't do that for any statistic or measurement either.

If your argument is you shouldn't use rings as the sole judge of who is better, substitute rings with literally any method of evaluation and the statement is equally as valid so why focus on rings?

If your argument we shouldn't use rings at all in your judgment of who is better, evaluation is all about information and context. What you are doing by saying rings are completely worthless is eliminating information from your analysis and refusing to look at context.

Who do you consider to be the top 10 players of all-time (or the best player at each position)? How many rings do each of them have? How many are in your top 10 despite the fact that someone else at their position who is considered a superstar or on the same status has more rings than them at that position or overall?

KnicksorBust
04-21-2016, 11:50 AM
That is a great question. If McGrady didn't have those injuries who knows what he would have been. While I think McGrady is better, I would take Kidd because its safer in this case. McGrady may have become the superior player.

But if rings don't matter why do injuries matter? Your whole premise is talent and skill.

KnicksorBust
04-21-2016, 11:53 AM
It's not a comparison, he's pointing out the absurdity of using it as a basis for comparison

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

But his example is just as absurd because no one uses rings to that degree. The post season is used in comparisons where both players were relatively equal players during in the regular season.

KnicksorBust
04-21-2016, 11:54 AM
If the postseason didn't exist Karl Malone would be ranked ahead of Tim Duncan on all-time lists.

FlashBolt
04-21-2016, 12:14 PM
Some of these posters talk about rings as if they are the end all and be all of judging a player, that is my point, if that is your standard than you have to say that Horry is better than Kobe (i'n using him because that is who the TC made this topic about).

I am pointing out a major flaw in judging a player, not judging a legacy.

To those people saying rings rings rings and that is all that matters need to admit that Horry is better than Kobe....my argument is if you take Lebron, Kobe, and Durant (since those are who this topic is about) at 20 years old, no players on a roster, no coach, nothing but the first piece added to a team which would it be, there are no stats, no accolades at that point, you can only consider the players skill and nothing else.

People who say rings or but the stats say, are missing a lot of the game, rings are about teams and about adding to a legacy, not about who is better than who.

I don't think anyone is even remotely suggesting that. It's something that should be automatically understood. I do agree that rings are about teams but the best player tends to be in the best team (for their own reason) and at the end of the day, you have to win. Players particularly don't even care about the regular season. Teams are cracking down on you to a larger extent when they have to play you seven times in a row. So the entire environment of the game changes. If you can't handle that pressure, it has a lot to do with being a great player. James Harden is a great example. Great regular season player but he completely disappears in the playoffs. You can say the same for many guys throughout the game. Rings do matter but I do agree that the media has infiltrated the mass into forgetting that rings or no rings, basketball skill is always existent.

FlashBolt
04-21-2016, 12:17 PM
If the postseason didn't exist Karl Malone would be ranked ahead of Tim Duncan on all-time lists.

Well, you also have to acknowledge that Duncan has had the luxury of playing in a system that completely benefits his playstyle. Not degrading Duncan here but how many players have the luxury of being able to rest and still have a chance to compete for the title every season? On the contrary, you can certainly argue that Duncan is largely responsible for the system being implemented to begin with. It has a lot to do with it. There are many players who are capable of winning the ring under the right circumstances.

PhillyFaninLA
04-21-2016, 12:47 PM
delete - not feeding this mindless troll anymore

PhillyFaninLA
04-21-2016, 12:57 PM
I think many people on this site confuse legacy and ability. Rings are about your legacy, not about your ability.

This topic is about comparing Lebron, Kobe, and Durant which is not about legacy, not about circumstance, not about stats...its about ability on the court.

People say look at all those points or other stat and all those rings, and in this topic show that is all they care about in evaluating an individual player.

When you remove circumstance you are left with the player, when you only have the player you have to take into account skills, athleticism, and more.

Rings are important for legacy, stats and awards are about legacy.

What a player can do on a court, without context of a situation is about the player and that is how you should evaluate the individual.

The trolls will only trolls and many others aren't open to reason whether the agree or disagree...and for the record being arrogant or insulting isn't ever going to get someone to agree with you.

FlashBolt
04-21-2016, 02:23 PM
@PhillyFaninLA, how am I trolling? I agreed with you and offered my "opinion" and you called me a troll? Yet, when I asked you to elaborate on why you think Wilt>Kobe as the greatest Lakers, you said "it's my opinion, I can say what I want." I'm starting to think you are the troll. Regardless, I won't ever be quoting you again. I believe you are way too stubborn to be steered towards any direction. Just like when I asked you to give me a reason why Wilt>Kobe, you simply refused to do so.

PhillyFaninLA
04-21-2016, 02:59 PM
@PhillyFaninLA, how am I trolling? I agreed with you and offered my "opinion" and you called me a troll? Yet, when I asked you to elaborate on why you think Wilt>Kobe as the greatest Lakers, you said "it's my opinion, I can say what I want." I'm starting to think you are the troll. Regardless, I won't ever be quoting you again. I believe you are way too stubborn to be steered towards any direction. Just like when I asked you to give me a reason why Wilt>Kobe, you simply refused to do so.

I wasn't referring you, I quoted someone else and thought better of it...sorry the confusion

KnicksorBust
04-21-2016, 03:08 PM
I wasn't referring you, I quoted someone else and thought better of it...sorry the confusion

Please tell me it was me. That would be a first in 10+ years on the site :laugh: and it would make my day. I'm engaging you in a real debate and challenging your points.