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View Full Version : T-Wolves Drop 144...sign of things to come?



IKnowHoops
04-14-2016, 01:56 AM
144 is a lot of points. The wolves have multiple young guys who can drop 30. I mean 144 is 144 and in the NBA, thats some serious output.

IKnowHoops
04-14-2016, 02:07 AM
And I would take Towns over AD right now. Towns is a monster. I'm not sure Ive ever seen a player of his size with his skill set.

Saddletramp
04-14-2016, 02:12 AM
Didn't they do this to the Pelicans? Who didn't have Anthony Davis? And Jrue Holiday? And Tyreke Evans? And Eric Gordon? And Ryan Anderson? And other bench players?

And they didn't fare as well the other day against a healthy Rockets team.........

beasted86
04-14-2016, 02:38 AM
Towns is a beast and Wiggins will be an all-star someday soon. They will be fine on offense, but their putrid defense needs work.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2016, 09:31 AM
Towns is a beast and Wiggins will be an all-star someday soon. They will be fine on offense, but their putrid defense needs work.

yep. There is no reason a Rubio-Wiggins-Towns trio should be giving up points left and right. A coaching change is in order asap

JasonJohnHorn
04-14-2016, 09:59 AM
Um... the Pelicans onl had 7 players for the night, and only 1 of the season's top-five scorers on their team.


I'm pretty sure racking up 144 points on them was relatively easy. I would have been curious to see what a healthy GSW team would do to that line-up.

It's easy for Townes to dominate Davis when Davis isn't playing.

72 Wins
04-14-2016, 10:01 AM
yep. There is no reason a Rubio-Wiggins-Towns trio should be giving up points left and right. A coaching change is in order asap

Man... If Thibs goes to the T-Wolves, They could be something special.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2016, 10:20 AM
Man... If Thibs goes to the T-Wolves, They could be something special.

I am selfishly hoping JVG takes the GM position, and hires Thibs haha.

But, we shall see. I read that Thibs, Brooks, and JVG are their potential targets.

ewing
04-14-2016, 10:44 AM
I am selfishly hoping JVG takes the GM position, and hires Thibs haha.

But, we shall see. I read that Thibs, Brooks, and JVG are their potential targets.


A Thibs JVG marriage would be great. they would be the ultimate "i don't give ****" front office/coach tandem. you definitely wont score 144 a game though

DR_1
04-14-2016, 11:04 AM
And I would take Towns over AD right now. Towns is a monster. I'm not sure Ive ever seen a player of his size with his skill set.
While I agree that Towns is a beast, I would like to see a bit more of this before I take him over AD.

DR_1
04-14-2016, 11:06 AM
I am selfishly hoping JVG takes the GM position, and hires Thibs haha.

But, we shall see. I read that Thibs, Brooks, and JVG are their potential targets.

Dude, I know your a long suffering Wolves fan. I'm gonna be so happy for you guys if this group gets coached by Thibs. Heck I may become a T-Wolves fan as I'm so sick of Bulls management :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
04-14-2016, 11:10 AM
Dude, I know your a long suffering Wolves fan. I'm gonna be so happy for you guys if this group gets coached by Thibs. Heck I may become a T-Wolves fan as I'm so sick of Bulls management :laugh2:

I know a lot of people worry about Thibs wearing down his players, but we are very young, finally have a good training staff, and if we can throw out a top 10 defense, we are in the playoffs as soon as next year, and potentially contending in 3 years if we make the right decisions.

DR_1
04-14-2016, 11:16 AM
I know a lot of people worry about Thibs wearing down his players, but we are very young, finally have a good training staff, and if we can throw out a top 10 defense, we are in the playoffs as soon as next year, and potentially contending in 3 years if we make the right decisions.

Absolutely. Regardless of who I am rooting for, the Wolves are gonna be a treat to watch. Happy for Minnesota, you guys deserve this after so many years of losing.

And the training staff thing is important to take into account. He never had a good medical training staff in Chicago. Add to that the FO trying to literally subvert his reputation with the players and what happened there is hardly his fault. Add to those things the young legs of the Wolves and this seems like a perfect match if everyone wants it.

72 Wins
04-14-2016, 11:54 AM
I am selfishly hoping JVG takes the GM position, and hires Thibs haha.



No question JVG would do it. He doesn't hide his love for Thibs.

Scoots
04-14-2016, 12:50 PM
And I would take Towns over AD right now. Towns is a monster. I'm not sure Ive ever seen a player of his size with his skill set.

Trade value right now Towns is top 5 in the NBA.

mrblisterdundee
04-14-2016, 12:52 PM
Didn't they do this to the Pelicans? Who didn't have Anthony Davis? And Jrue Holiday? And Tyreke Evans? And Eric Gordon? And Ryan Anderson? And other bench players?

And they didn't fare as well the other day against a healthy Rockets team.........

Bingo. Last night was basically a summer league game.

Scoots
04-14-2016, 12:52 PM
Towns is a beast and Wiggins will be an all-star someday soon. They will be fine on offense, but their putrid defense needs work.

Wiggins is going to have trouble making the ASG in the West. Dame didn't make it and few felt it was a big surprise ... Wiggins has a ways to go to get there.

Scoots
04-14-2016, 12:54 PM
The future will be interesting for these young teams in the West. The middle of the West looks to be slipping and the bottom is coming on fast. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Wolves, Jazz, and Pelicans in the playoffs next year.

IKnowHoops
04-14-2016, 04:02 PM
Bingo. Last night was basically a summer league game.

I 100% agree, but a lot of teams played there bench, yet no other teams put up 144 pts. It doesn't deserve the respect of a true 144 pt game at the halfway point of the regular season, but I do think it deserves a second look.

MN is a nice young squad that has so much growth that is going to happen over the next 3 years. The sky is the limit for these guys. Its going to be very fun to watch. I was hoping the Wolves could get another lottery pick next season too, but I doubt it will happen. I think there are 5 players in the draft that can make a great impact for the wolves, but if they luck up and get a top 2 pick, this team could really be crazy.

beasted86
04-14-2016, 05:07 PM
I 100% agree, but a lot of teams played there bench, yet no other teams put up 144 pts. It doesn't deserve the respect of a true 144 pt game at the halfway point of the regular season, but I do think it deserves a second look.

MN is a nice young squad that has so much growth that is going to happen over the next 3 years. The sky is the limit for these guys. Its going to be very fun to watch. I was hoping the Wolves could get another lottery pick next season too, but I doubt it will happen. I think there are 5 players in the draft that can make a great impact for the wolves, but if they luck up and get a top 2 pick, this team could really be crazy.

Really crazy in what way? More guys that can score with no defense? I don't recall an Anthony Davis or Kawhi Leonard two-way type at the top of this draft, just more scorers.

I also don't think a coach alone is enough to turn that team around. They need multiple defenders if they are that bad. I also don't understand people talking about Rubio and Wiggins as though they are known for defense. Maybe I should take a closer look next league pass preview.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2016, 05:24 PM
Really crazy in what way? More guys that can score with no defense? I don't recall an Anthony Davis or Kawhi Leonard two-way type at the top of this draft, just more scorers.

I also don't think a coach alone is enough to turn that team around. They need multiple defenders if they are that bad. I also don't understand people talking about Rubio and Wiggins as though they are known for defense. Maybe I should take a closer look next league pass preview.

Why is Rubio considered an elite defender by scouts, analytics, and any possible way we can look at defense? I know you don't care for stats, but Rubio ranks at the top of the league as s defender, for multiple reasons. Wiggins is an awesome 1-1 defender, he is elite against the isolation, and very good guarding his man. But his team defense, and rebounding suck. A coach for sure fixes that.

Towns will be an elite defender. He is very good against PnR, and a good weak side shot blocker, but he gets pushed around with his pogo stick legs. By year 3ish, I figure he is stronger and an elite defender.

Their problem is their bench is horrid defensively, they don't have a legit big man who can stick with stretch 4's, and they give up too many points off 3's, and in transition. That is coaching dude.

A great defensive system works, and it's coached. You can't individually make a guy a lot better defender, outside maybe teaching him a few tools to use. But as a team unit, coaching has a big part in it. So does philosophy in general.

kobe4thewinbang
04-15-2016, 12:25 AM
Well, Towns ran away with ROY, that's for sure. And yes, I think Minnesota is finally budding to make ruckus in the west. Wiggins > Love for that team, and Wiggins is the man, plus Towns and Dieng and Shabazz. And Rubio's actually hitting shots and ditched the Shaggy look. That team will definitely be better next season.

FlashBolt
04-15-2016, 01:37 AM
A PG who can't create a shot for himself is a bad PG in this era.. or any era for that matter. Rubio needs to go. Minny has a great future and has the most talent for a young group. I really hope they don't throw this away. Wiggins+Towns are easily All-Star type players in two seasons MINIMUM.

kobe4thewinbang
04-15-2016, 02:48 AM
A PG who can't create a shot for himself is a bad PG in this era.. or any era for that matter. Rubio needs to go. Minny has a great future and has the most talent for a young group. I really hope they don't throw this away. Wiggins+Towns are easily All-Star type players in two seasons MINIMUM.I saw flashes of Rubio improving. He's better than Rondo, but yeah, they could get an upgrade sure. The question is how long do they have before these young bucks want a max deal? You look at stacked teams and 2-4 of the roster have most of the cap. Obviously Wiggins and Towns come first, but do they let someone else go to keep another?

IKnowHoops
04-15-2016, 03:18 AM
Wiggins is going to have trouble making the ASG in the West. Dame didn't make it and few felt it was a big surprise ... Wiggins has a ways to go to get there.

I have no doubt that Wiggins becomes a perennial All-Star.

IKnowHoops
04-15-2016, 04:14 AM
A PG who can't create a shot for himself is a bad PG in this era.. or any era for that matter. Rubio needs to go. Minny has a great future and has the most talent for a young group. I really hope they don't throw this away. Wiggins+Towns are easily All-Star type players in two seasons MINIMUM.

I would love for them to trade Rubio for a top 6 pick in this upcoming draft. That could net them Buddy Hield and Kris Dunn. That could also set the wolves offense back for another year to get one more high draft pick the following year.

Saddletramp
04-15-2016, 04:33 AM
I would love for them to trade Rubio for a top 6 pick in this upcoming draft. That could net them Buddy Hield and Kris Dunn. That could also set the wolves offense back for another year to get one more high draft pick the following year.

Rubio for a top 6 pick? You don't know hoops.

IKnowHoops
04-15-2016, 04:46 AM
Rubio for a top 6 pick? You don't know hoops.

I know its some make believe stuff
Just giving you the dream

Hawkeye15
04-15-2016, 09:33 AM
A PG who can't create a shot for himself is a bad PG in this era.. or any era for that matter. Rubio needs to go. Minny has a great future and has the most talent for a young group. I really hope they don't throw this away. Wiggins+Towns are easily All-Star type players in two seasons MINIMUM.

Who is his replacement?

Anyone who wants to cast Rubio aside, please offer a reasonable upgrade, however you figure the Wolves get it....

beasted86
04-15-2016, 01:40 PM
Why is Rubio considered an elite defender by scouts, analytics, and any possible way we can look at defense? I know you don't care for stats, but Rubio ranks at the top of the league as s defender, for multiple reasons. Wiggins is an awesome 1-1 defender, he is elite against the isolation, and very good guarding his man. But his team defense, and rebounding suck. A coach for sure fixes that.

Towns will be an elite defender. He is very good against PnR, and a good weak side shot blocker, but he gets pushed around with his pogo stick legs. By year 3ish, I figure he is stronger and an elite defender.

Their problem is their bench is horrid defensively, they don't have a legit big man who can stick with stretch 4's, and they give up too many points off 3's, and in transition. That is coaching dude.

A great defensive system works, and it's coached. You can't individually make a guy a lot better defender, outside maybe teaching him a few tools to use. But as a team unit, coaching has a big part in it. So does philosophy in general.
According to your analytic argument Goran Dragić is a better defender than Rubio. Do you believe that to be true? Rubio is also one of the worst guards in the NBA in defensive FG%, in fact players shot a higher percentage than their usual against him.

You really can't have it both ways, to use advanced/tracking stats when they align with your argument.

All I know is he doesn't pass the eye test for me defensively when I'm watching. Gambles for steals and isn't ahead of the play for off ball rotations.

Oefarmy2005
04-15-2016, 03:40 PM
According to your analytic argument Goran Dragić is a better defender than Rubio. Do you believe that to be true? Rubio is also one of the worst guards in the NBA in defensive FG%, in fact players shot a higher percentage than their usual against him.

You really can't have it both ways, to use advanced/tracking stats when they align with your argument.

All I know is he doesn't pass the eye test for me defensively when I'm watching. Gambles for steals and isn't ahead of the play for off ball rotations.

Ricky may not be the best one-on-one defender but he is an elite team defender. He is also to 5 in real plus-minus and 2nd in defensive plus-minus. And as Moses Malone said in Uncle Drew Pt. 2, "It's all about buckets." Also, Curry's field goal % against Rubio specifically in 3 meetings this year: .391,.353.280 for a 0.341 average, 3pt is .236. I rest my case.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 04:10 PM
Ricky may not be the best one-on-one defender but he is an elite team defender. He is also to 5 in real plus-minus and 2nd in defensive plus-minus. And as Moses Malone said in Uncle Drew Pt. 2, "It's all about buckets." Also, Curry's field goal % against Rubio specifically in 3 meetings this year: .391,.353.280 for a 0.341 average, 3pt is .236. I rest my case.

Plus minus doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It could be saying that his bench counterpart is that much worse, the 5 man units he plays with are simply better, etc.

And opponent FG% is a tracking stat of all opponents, not just the ones you feel like using because it suits the argument, and not "an estimate" like defensive rating. Rubio is not good in this area, he grades as way below average in opponent FG% and guys shot 3% better when he's defending then.

I'm not saying he's overall terrible, but like I originally said, I don't get why people talk about both him and Wiggins as if they are "known" top defenders or something. The stats don't really say it and my limited eye test doesn't say it for me at least. The wolves need multiple defenders along with defensive coaching before they can become good on that end.

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 03:09 AM
Really crazy in what way? More guys that can score with no defense? I don't recall an Anthony Davis or Kawhi Leonard two-way type at the top of this draft, just more scorers.

I also don't think a coach alone is enough to turn that team around. They need multiple defenders if they are that bad. I also don't understand people talking about Rubio and Wiggins as though they are known for defense. Maybe I should take a closer look next league pass preview.

I am not concerned with the lack of defense at all because 19 and 20 year olds always make for poor defenders. Even Lebron was pretty poor at 19 and 20. Its just how it goes when your a young player who hasn't gotten his grown man body yet. I look at there speed and quickness and overall athletic ability and see that they have the god given attributes to be good and great defenders. Its just part of the maturation process. Great athletes can be good defenders when they want to. Wolves just need a defensive minded coach like Thibs and I have no worries at all that there defense will be just fine.

Scoots
04-16-2016, 01:16 PM
Rubio is a good defender ... it's hard to evaluate PG defenders though.

The question about Rubio is whether he's going to go somewhere else to play?

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 01:51 PM
Rubio is a good defender ... it's hard to evaluate PG defenders though.

The question about Rubio is whether he's going to go somewhere else to play?

I understand that the wolves are a better team when he is on the court. But I hope the Wolves can trade him fro a high draft pick...something we can flip into a Kris Dunn or the top PG in next years draft. I'd like to have a PG who can stroke and play above the rim. I like what I have seen from Dunn. I think there are a few teams that could use Rubio. He's grown on me more this year to the point where Id be fine keeping him, but I'd still rather trade him. I also still happen to be a believer than Tyus will turn into a solid PG who can pass and stroke the 3 at a very good clip. I know that there is not much to go on that would project him as a good PG in the future, but I think I have seen something in him from highschool, to college to the D league to now...and I just think he needs his body to mature and all of a sudden the wolves fans are going to be surprised at the player they have.

5ass
04-16-2016, 02:24 PM
Plus minus doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It could be saying that his bench counterpart is that much worse, the 5 man units he plays with are simply better, etc.

And opponent FG% is a tracking stat of all opponents, not just the ones you feel like using because it suits the argument, and not "an estimate" like defensive rating. Rubio is not good in this area, he grades as way below average in opponent FG% and guys shot 3% better when he's defending then.

I'm not saying he's overall terrible, but like I originally said, I don't get why people talk about both him and Wiggins as if they are "known" top defenders or something. The stats don't really say it and my limited eye test doesn't say it for me at least. The wolves need multiple defenders along with defensive coaching before they can become good on that end.

I agree. Just going off the eye test, I definitely don't consider him an elite defender. I don't even think he's top 5. I'd probably take Lowry, CP3, Payton, Conley, Wall and maybe MCW over Rubio.

Scoots
04-16-2016, 03:58 PM
I understand that the wolves are a better team when he is on the court. But I hope the Wolves can trade him fro a high draft pick...something we can flip into a Kris Dunn or the top PG in next years draft. I'd like to have a PG who can stroke and play above the rim. I like what I have seen from Dunn. I think there are a few teams that could use Rubio. He's grown on me more this year to the point where Id be fine keeping him, but I'd still rather trade him. I also still happen to be a believer than Tyus will turn into a solid PG who can pass and stroke the 3 at a very good clip. I know that there is not much to go on that would project him as a good PG in the future, but I think I have seen something in him from highschool, to college to the D league to now...and I just think he needs his body to mature and all of a sudden the wolves fans are going to be surprised at the player they have.

The problem is Rubio is under contract for 3 more years. The good part is his contract gets to be a better deal with time so there should be takers.

Rubio for Teague?

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 04:14 PM
The problem is Rubio is under contract for 3 more years. The good part is his contract gets to be a better deal with time so there should be takers.

Rubio for Teague?

If I am in win now mode I do that. But since I still think the wolves need probably two more years before those young guys can make a serious push, I'd rather get a top rookie PG in this year or next years draft. I'm very interested in seeing who the Twolves draft. If we get a top two pick then its obviously either Ingram or Simmons (I hope Simmons) but after that Id be happy with Heild, Dunn, or even Skal. I'm actually not to worried about this years draft, (even though as a wolves fan I should never trust management to draft well). My biggest hope is that we can flip Rubio into a top 6 pick in this year or next years draft.

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 04:19 PM
In a dream scenario the wolves are able to flip Rubio for a top 5 pick this year as well as they get lucky and get the #1 pick overall. Draft Ben Simmons and Kris Dunn and then win now begins and we make the playoffs next season, western conference finals the season after and our 6 best players are between the ages of 20-22.

Scoots
04-16-2016, 06:59 PM
If I am in win now mode I do that. But since I still think the wolves need probably two more years before those young guys can make a serious push, I'd rather get a top rookie PG in this year or next years draft. I'm very interested in seeing who the Twolves draft. If we get a top two pick then its obviously either Ingram or Simmons (I hope Simmons) but after that Id be happy with Heild, Dunn, or even Skal. I'm actually not to worried about this years draft, (even though as a wolves fan I should never trust management to draft well). My biggest hope is that we can flip Rubio into a top 6 pick in this year or next years draft.

They could pick up a PG and have Teague to settle the team in some. Don't want to go too young, and he's only got 1 year left on his deal.

IKnowHoops
04-16-2016, 09:36 PM
They could pick up a PG and have Teague to settle the team in some. Don't want to go too young, and he's only got 1 year left on his deal.

I know this sounds weird, but I'm just not in a hurry to win. I have no doubt that this team is going to be a beast. I mean Towns is a monster, Wiggins is a freak, Lavine has a super high ceiling himself, and Shabazz is showing me a lot. Having a 7 footer like Towns will guarantee us that we are pretty good.

So in that frame of mind of "knowing we will be good", I'm all about adding more top tier young pieces in the draft until our ability to suck is gone. Also we aren't winning while GS and Bron are at this level so I'd rather not even be good...I'd rather tank and add those pieces. You never know who may come around in the draft, and unfortunately for MN, we don't attract free agents so we need to do damage in the draft.

From a timing aspect...basically when our young horses will be ready to win, Rubio, Teague...they just don't fit the timeline IMO. So I'd rather trade the guys that don't fit the timeline for draft picks soley. I want Wiggins, Lavine, Shabbazz, and Towns to be our vets 3-4 years from now leading 3 more top draft picks that we acquired to the promise land.

A team like that gets better every year for a long time.

Scoots
04-17-2016, 02:58 AM
I know this sounds weird, but I'm just not in a hurry to win. I have no doubt that this team is going to be a beast. I mean Towns is a monster, Wiggins is a freak, Lavine has a super high ceiling himself, and Shabazz is showing me a lot. Having a 7 footer like Towns will guarantee us that we are pretty good.

So in that frame of mind of "knowing we will be good", I'm all about adding more top tier young pieces in the draft until our ability to suck is gone. Also we aren't winning while GS and Bron are at this level so I'd rather not even be good...I'd rather tank and add those pieces. You never know who may come around in the draft, and unfortunately for MN, we don't attract free agents so we need to do damage in the draft.

From a timing aspect...basically when our young horses will be ready to win, Rubio, Teague...they just don't fit the timeline IMO. So I'd rather trade the guys that don't fit the timeline for draft picks soley. I want Wiggins, Lavine, Shabbazz, and Towns to be our vets 3-4 years from now leading 3 more top draft picks that we acquired to the promise land.

A team like that gets better every year for a long time.

The Warriors are not the Warriors without Iguodala, Bogut, and Livingston. You need vets.

That said Dunn would certainly be a great replacement for Rubio.

IKnowHoops
04-17-2016, 03:14 PM
The Warriors are not the Warriors without Iguodala, Bogut, and Livingston. You need vets.

That said Dunn would certainly be a great replacement for Rubio.

True, the warriors need those vets, but I think the timing of bringing those vets in is key. I'd like to bring in the right complimentary vets in like two years. I want my young horses to get all the PT so they can win and loose but get better. Also I want to go through the growing pains so that we can have a poor record and garnish a few more good picks. Once my young players are to good on there own to get anymore draft picks, then I'd like to go get those complimentary vets to complete the team. But the order of operations have to be as precise as they are for a math problem involving addition, multiplication and exponents. The wolves have to know when to pull the trigger on these variables...to early and we are only robbing ourselves of potential.

Scoots
04-17-2016, 03:23 PM
True, the warriors need those vets, but I think the timing of bringing those vets in is key. I'd like to bring in the right complimentary vets in like two years. I want my young horses to get all the PT so they can win and loose but get better. Also I want to go through the growing pains so that we can have a poor record and garnish a few more good picks. Once my young players are to good on there own to get anymore draft picks, then I'd like to go get those complimentary vets to complete the team. But the order of operations have to be as precise as they are for a math problem involving addition, multiplication and exponents. The wolves have to know when to pull the trigger on these variables...to early and we are only robbing ourselves of potential.

The problem is, in the 2 years from now you are going to be dealing with contract extensions for all of your youngsters except Towns and Jones.

IKnowHoops
04-17-2016, 04:43 PM
The problem is, in the 2 years from now you are going to be dealing with contract extensions for all of your youngsters except Towns and Jones.

Yeah they have to resign them.

Scoots
04-17-2016, 05:51 PM
Yeah they have to resign them.

Signing players to huge contracts and tanking seems strange to me, but okay.

IKnowHoops
04-17-2016, 05:59 PM
Signing players to huge contracts and tanking seems strange to me, but okay.


Naw, I don't think we should be tanking when there contracts are up. Just next year really.

Chronz
04-17-2016, 06:07 PM
I agree. Just going off the eye test, I definitely don't consider him an elite defender. I don't even think he's top 5. I'd probably take Lowry, CP3, Payton, Conley, Wall and maybe MCW over Rubio.
MCW? Dude blows on that end.

Jeffy25
04-17-2016, 09:22 PM
Not to put this down, but it was against the Pelicans and their weak 7 man roster that basically only had Omir Asik playing that deserves to be playing those sort of minutes.


4 guys put up 20 and LaVine had 19 though

Shabazz would make a good 6th man of the year next year

KAT is a beast